Marketplace joins forces with top scambusters to confront scammers in real time, cracking into networks of organized crime groups and watching some through their own security cameras. We stop nearly a dozen Canadians from potentially losing their life savings at our very own Fraud Fighting Centre, joining forces with scambaiters Jim Browning, Pleasant Green and Kitboga.
00:00 - Meet the scambaiters
06:08 - Saving Canadians from scams
12:48 - Psychology of a scammer
22:42 - Outsmarting scammers in real time
33:45 - The ‘grandparent scam’ and the impact of AI
38:56 - How to protect yourself
#Marketplace #Scammer #Scambaiting
==========
Meet the scambaiters
Jim Browning: The ‘godfather’ of scambusting - https://www.youtube.com/JimBrowning
Pleasant Green: The Protector - https://www.youtube.com/c/PleasantGreen
Kitboga: The crime-fighting comedian - https://www.youtube.com/@KitbogaShow
==========
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news
»»» Subscribe to CBC News to watch more videos: http://bit.ly/1RreYWS
Connect with CBC News Online:
For breaking news, video, audio and in-depth coverage: http://bit.ly/1Z0m6iX
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»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
For more than 80 years, CBC News has been the source Canadians turn to, to keep them informed about their communities, their country and their world. Through regional and national programming on multiple platforms, including CBC Television, CBC News Network, CBC Radio, CBCNews.ca, mobile and on-demand, CBC News and its internationally recognized team of award-winning journalists deliver the breaking stories, the issues, the analyses and the personalities that matter to Canadians.
SCAM STOPPERS:
THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN
producer/director
NELISHA VELLANI
editor
AARON TAYLOR
reporter
DAVID COMMON
additional editing
SIMON PARUBCHAK
camera
NORM ARNOLD
DAVID MACINTOSH
JOE FIORINO
art director
DAVID ABRAHAMS
audio
IGAL PETEL
RICHMOND LEE
additional field production
JENNY COWLEY
MICHELLE McCANN
additional research
BOBBY HRISTOVA
additional footage
YOUTUBE: Jim Browning
YOUTUBE: Kitboga
YOUTUBE: Pleasant Green
YOUTUBE: Scam Sandwich
YOUTUBE: Amazon MGM Studios
YOUTUBE: O2
special thanks
AMELIA KARIM
media management
ASTORIA LUZZI
social media producers
CAROLINE GDYCZYNSKI
BRITT PURDY
RACHEL MACLEAN
AVNEET DHILLON
colour correction
KYLE J. SMITH
sound mix
DANY TREMBLAY
MARIANA HUTTEN
resource coordinators
MARC CORMIER
DRAGAN MARICIC
news rollout associate producer
DEXTER McMILLAN
packaging producer
LINDA SIBONY
promo producer
GREG SADLER
senior producer
TIFFANY FOXCROFT
executive producer
NELISHA VELLANI
FIRST BROADCAST March 2
00:00 - Meet the scambaiters
06:08 - Saving Canadians from scams
12:48 - Psychology of a scammer
22:42 - Outsmarting scammers in real time
33:45 - The ‘grandparent scam’ and the impact of AI
38:56 - How to protect yourself
#Marketplace #Scammer #Scambaiting
==========
Meet the scambaiters
Jim Browning: The ‘godfather’ of scambusting - https://www.youtube.com/JimBrowning
Pleasant Green: The Protector - https://www.youtube.com/c/PleasantGreen
Kitboga: The crime-fighting comedian - https://www.youtube.com/@KitbogaShow
==========
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news
»»» Subscribe to CBC News to watch more videos: http://bit.ly/1RreYWS
Connect with CBC News Online:
For breaking news, video, audio and in-depth coverage: http://bit.ly/1Z0m6iX
Follow CBC News on TikTok: https://bit.ly/3TnHioe
Follow CBC News on Twitter: http://bit.ly/1sA5P9H
Find CBC News on Facebook: http://bit.ly/1WjG36m
Follow CBC News on Instagram: http://bit.ly/1Z0iE7O
Subscribe to CBC News on Snapchat: https://bit.ly/3leaWsr
Download the CBC News app for iOS: http://apple.co/25mpsUz
Download the CBC News app for Android: http://bit.ly/1XxuozZ
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
For more than 80 years, CBC News has been the source Canadians turn to, to keep them informed about their communities, their country and their world. Through regional and national programming on multiple platforms, including CBC Television, CBC News Network, CBC Radio, CBCNews.ca, mobile and on-demand, CBC News and its internationally recognized team of award-winning journalists deliver the breaking stories, the issues, the analyses and the personalities that matter to Canadians.
SCAM STOPPERS:
THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN
producer/director
NELISHA VELLANI
editor
AARON TAYLOR
reporter
DAVID COMMON
additional editing
SIMON PARUBCHAK
camera
NORM ARNOLD
DAVID MACINTOSH
JOE FIORINO
art director
DAVID ABRAHAMS
audio
IGAL PETEL
RICHMOND LEE
additional field production
JENNY COWLEY
MICHELLE McCANN
additional research
BOBBY HRISTOVA
additional footage
YOUTUBE: Jim Browning
YOUTUBE: Kitboga
YOUTUBE: Pleasant Green
YOUTUBE: Scam Sandwich
YOUTUBE: Amazon MGM Studios
YOUTUBE: O2
special thanks
AMELIA KARIM
media management
ASTORIA LUZZI
social media producers
CAROLINE GDYCZYNSKI
BRITT PURDY
RACHEL MACLEAN
AVNEET DHILLON
colour correction
KYLE J. SMITH
sound mix
DANY TREMBLAY
MARIANA HUTTEN
resource coordinators
MARC CORMIER
DRAGAN MARICIC
news rollout associate producer
DEXTER McMILLAN
packaging producer
LINDA SIBONY
promo producer
GREG SADLER
senior producer
TIFFANY FOXCROFT
executive producer
NELISHA VELLANI
FIRST BROADCAST March 2
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00♪♪
00:03♪♪
00:10♪♪
00:13We're setting up a call centre.
00:16But this is not your typical operation.
00:20These three are big-name scam busters with millions of
00:23followers online.
00:25Now, for the first time ever...
00:29Nice to meet you.
00:30They're joining forces, giving us exclusive access to see them
00:35in action, infiltrating scammer networks so they can see their
00:39screens, hear their calls, and stop them in their tracks.
00:44Jim Browning is an icon among the world's good guy hackers
00:49known as White Hats.
00:50How long have you been doing the scamming?
00:54Sir, I'm not scamming you.
00:56The video I'd produce on this would result in the largest
00:59arrest of scammers in any one location in the world.
01:04How many scam centres do you think you've intercepted?
01:07Two or three thousand scam call centres.
01:10Every single time I can hear a phone call,
01:13I imagine that's my mother, my father,
01:15my grandmother, my grandfather.
01:17And if I'm in a position to try to do something about it,
01:20absolutely why wouldn't I do that?
01:24Next, there's Kit Boga.
01:26Online, he's a crime-fighting comedian.
01:30I really appreciate you calling,
01:32but I'm in the middle of something with Geek Squad,
01:34so could you call me back later?
01:36I'm with the Geek Squad.
01:37Can you just click on those boxes, please?
01:39How do you explain to people what you do?
01:42I try to play the perfect victim,
01:44and the way I do that is pretend to be the perfect target,
01:49and see what kind of information I can get from them.
01:52Ben is our final scam buster.
01:55His YouTube handle is Pleasant Green.
01:58So, yesterday I got this weird text message.
02:00He tries to convince bad guys there's a better way.
02:04I like to look at scammers as human beings,
02:07and I think that a lot of them do what they do
02:10because they might be in parts of the world
02:11where they can't find better opportunities.
02:13And so, if I can convince a scammer
02:16that there's a better way to make a living,
02:18then I'm gonna give them that opportunity.
02:20All three will use their skill sets to fight the fraudsters.
02:24You're gonna see things that will shock you.
02:26Three experts.
02:28You're gonna see tactics used by these scammers
02:29that you didn't think were possible.
02:32Two days.
02:34Hopefully we can find ways to disrupt what they're doing.
02:37And one mission,
02:38stop scammers from stealing your money.
02:41I just hope that together we can put our powers together
02:44and do something really incredible.
02:47We're still setting up
02:49when these three jump into action.
02:51Okay, so we are listening in to a scammer.
02:56He's targeting both Canadian and American citizens.
02:59The victim is about to send money.
03:02This woman is terrified.
03:03She thinks that she's in legal trouble.
03:05I have her phone number and I keep trying to call her,
03:07but she won't answer my call because the scammer is saying,
03:10oh, that guy calling you,
03:11you know, he's trying to steal your money.
03:14Our team has just minutes to save her.
03:16And if we can't reach her,
03:18we're calling her bank.
03:20My name is Ben and I'm calling to alert you
03:24that one of your members is likely gonna be coming
03:26into that branch today
03:28and she's gonna want to withdraw some money,
03:29but I believe she's a victim of an internet scam.
03:32After we share the victim's details with them,
03:35the bank flags the account for her protection.
03:38Ultimately, we just reached out to law enforcement
03:41and we encouraged them to do a welfare check
03:43because we knew that her computer was being compromised
03:45and that she was being pressured to send money.
03:47It's just the latest scam we've stopped.
03:50Something our team has been doing for nearly a decade.
03:54110,000 altogether.
03:57Almost $200,000.
04:00These are real people
04:01who cannot afford to lose this money.
04:03You're taking it from them.
04:05I'm calling to report what we believe
04:06is a fraud in progress.
04:08The person you've been speaking with is a phone scammer
04:12and I just want to make sure
04:13that you're not gonna pay them any money.
04:15Scam interrupted.
04:17Virtual high five.
04:18Can the public safety minister explain
04:21why Canadians have to depend on the CBC
04:24to unearth the scam and protect Canadians?
04:28It certainly helped that the CBC
04:30did their episode on Marketplace.
04:33But the losses continue to grow.
04:35In 2024, Canadians report losing
04:38more than $630 million to cyber fraud.
04:42So you might ask,
04:43what authorities have been doing to protect us?
04:46Canada's Auditor General questions it too.
04:49Canada needs to be better positioned
04:52to defend and protect Canadians.
04:55Last year, Karen Hogan looks at how authorities
04:58are protecting us from cyber crime.
05:00Her report is a bombshell.
05:03Well, what we found was that the organizations
05:05who are involved in fighting cyber crime
05:07are responding to it,
05:09don't have the tools and the capacity
05:11that they need to properly enforce
05:14Canada's cyber crime legislation.
05:16An alarm, warning of agencies not talking to each other,
05:19and tens of thousands of complaints
05:21from Canadian victims
05:23never being sent to the right investigators.
05:25And they didn't forward it on
05:27to the one that was responsible,
05:29or an organization just didn't get back
05:31to an individual to let them know,
05:33you reported this to the wrong place,
05:35you should send it somewhere else.
05:37It must be surprising to a lot of Canadians
05:40to think that when you report a cyber crime,
05:44sometimes it's not ending up in a place
05:46where it can be investigated.
05:48And I think that speaks to the confusion, right?
05:50It stands to reason that there's so many parties
05:52involved in fighting cyber crime.
05:53So all of those parties need to work together
05:56and share information.
05:58All those agencies involved in fighting cyber crime
06:01agree with the recommendations in her report,
06:04and acknowledge more needs to be done.
06:10Back at our fraud fighting center,
06:12our trio are working together.
06:15Tapping into a scam operation,
06:17impersonating PayPal,
06:19an online portal for making payments.
06:22They send out fake invoices,
06:24and I can hear them at the minute
06:26telling people that what they need to do
06:28to cancel this supposed invoice
06:31is to download something from the app store
06:33that will give them remote access to their victims.
06:35Jim has hacked into the fraudsters' computer networks.
06:39You're hearing the scammers in your headpiece right now?
06:41I am.
06:42It looks like this scammer
06:44is able to see the victim's computer,
06:47and they've logged into their bank account.
06:49How much money is in that bank account?
06:51A very substantial amount.
06:52In one account alone, there's nearly 250,000.
06:56Whoa.
06:57So there's a lot that could be lost.
06:59Ben has to move fast.
07:01So I'll try calling her right now.
07:02Identifying the victim,
07:04racing to stop her life savings from disappearing.
07:07Hi, is this Gerilyn?
07:09Oh, my name is Ben.
07:11It's a tense moment.
07:13It sure is, but it pays off.
07:16Swindle shut down.
07:18They look so real, and they come from PayPal.com.
07:21It's a legitimate PayPal invoice,
07:24but in the description they write,
07:25if this looks wrong, call a 1-800 number.
07:28That's not PayPal, it's these guys.
07:30So it's a very pervasive scam.
07:33PayPal tells us they're working to protect customers
07:36from evolving scams,
07:38while encouraging customers to remain mindful online.
07:42Next up, our fraud squad is taking on those posing
07:46as Best Buy's geek squad, offering tech support.
07:50You get an email that says your subscription is ending,
07:53your credit card is going to be charged $500 for the year.
07:56If you did not authorize this, please call this number.
07:58And this person is taking calls right now.
08:01Ben hears the con man connect with a Canadian victim.
08:04So this is a person in Montreal.
08:06Right now the victim is talking about this email.
08:09The scammer's saying, I need to cancel it from my side.
08:12That's our cue to intervene.
08:14We try to reach the victim over and over,
08:16hoping she'll put the scammer on hold
08:19and take our warning call.
08:23Hello?
08:24Oh, yes, hello.
08:25My name is David Common.
08:26I'm calling from CBC Marketplace.
08:28I believe what you've just hung up from
08:31was potentially a scam.
08:33Were they claiming to be Geek Squad?
08:35Yes, Geek Squad.
08:37Yeah.
08:38Protection.
08:38But it was not Geek Squad.
08:40I'm going to speak in French.
08:41Okay, go ahead.
08:42It was a scam.
08:45It's not a real number.
08:48Okay?
08:49Okay.
08:50It was a scam.
08:51Is it an email or a text message?
08:54What's going on for you?
08:55It's a fake email.
08:57Okay, so it's not a real email.
09:00It's not a real email.
09:02They are just seconds from getting remote access
09:05to her computer.
09:06And with it, they could access her bank account
09:08and take all her money.
09:10What they will do is they will try to get access
09:12to your computer.
09:13And from that...
09:14That's exactly what they were saying.
09:15You would never want to give somebody else access
09:18to your computer when it's something like this.
09:20Okay?
09:21Okay.
09:22You did the right thing.
09:23Minutes later, we see more victims about to pay up.
09:27And there's a new call on there.
09:29And you can see that other people are calling in.
09:31So this scammer is like...
09:32Area code 204, that's Manitoba.
09:34506, that's New Brunswick.
09:40Hello?
09:41Yes, hello.
09:42My name is David Common.
09:43I'm calling from CBC Marketplace.
09:46You have been on the phone with somebody
09:48and that is a scam.
09:51For the iPhone guy.
09:53Yep.
09:53That you have called a scam center.
09:55So they are trying to get access to your computer.
10:00From that...
10:02Okay.
10:02Don't call them back.
10:04And if they call you back, just hang up on them.
10:07Did you...
10:08Did they install anything on your computer?
10:10You give them access?
10:12They were trying to, right?
10:14Let me just...
10:17This came in.
10:18It's all fake.
10:19Everything is fake.
10:20They're trying to steal your money.
10:22You go to Best Buy, where Geek Squad is.
10:25Just go there.
10:26Thank you for letting me know.
10:27Not at all.
10:28Have a great day.
10:29You too, bye.
10:30Bye.
10:32Nice.
10:33Persistence.
10:34Yeah, that was nicely done.
10:35That was great.
10:36Really cool.
10:38It's a good feeling.
10:38There was this moment where she said,
10:41you're just trying to cancel Geek Squad.
10:42David, leave me alone.
10:43I wanna...
10:44So there's this...
10:45You could tell that she for sure
10:47thought she was talking to Geek Squad.
10:49We've warned the targets.
10:51Now, it's time to flip the script on the scammer.
10:55This one's yours now.
10:55Okay.
10:56I'll pass the ball to you.
10:57I'm going to try to call the same scammer that...
11:01Was just trying to take advantage
11:02of the victim we just saved.
11:04That scammer uses the name Alina,
11:07and Kit is fighting back
11:09with one of his many fake personas.
11:11This time, it's old man Richard.
11:14Hello, Alina.
11:16I'm calling to cancel my Geek Squad subscription.
11:20Now listen up,
11:21because you're about to hear the scammer's side
11:24for the first time.
11:25I don't want to pay for it, Alina.
11:29Okay, first confirm me the ID.
11:31First confirm me the ID.
11:33Well, Kit Vogue is wasting this scammer's time.
11:37Then, over here, actually has the scammer's screen up.
11:41I can hear her microphone.
11:43I can see her computer.
11:44I can see that she's giving him instructions
11:46to download some screen control software.
11:48You have to confirm me the correct ID
11:51and the correct password
11:52so you can receive the cancellation call.
11:54Okay.
11:56You want to cancel the subscription?
11:57Yeah, okay, the password.
11:59The team loads a message onto their screens
12:02to throw the scammer off her game.
12:06Oh, this is exciting.
12:08All three of us on the same scam.
12:09When she asks for remote access,
12:12she sees this, a Geek Squad scam alert,
12:15leaving her totally confused.
12:19From where you have received that?
12:20I have no idea.
12:21Did you put that on my computer?
12:26No.
12:27Are you scamming me?
12:28You haven't been connected to the cancellation server.
12:32The cancellation server?
12:35She hangs up in frustration.
12:38But now, I'm calling her back.
12:41I'm just calling Geek Squad.
12:43Do you know how I can help you?
12:49What will a scammer say when the jig is up?
12:52I'm wondering why you scammed.
12:54And we're upping the ante.
12:56By me just hitting the green button on this telephone
12:59means that I am the next person that scammers call.
13:03Watch our experts rope in dozens of scammers
13:05all at once from around the world.
13:08That's coming up.
13:12We're calling scammers up and calling them out
13:16with some of the world's best at busting.
13:20Oh, she got you.
13:21Kit Boga has been on the line with a scammer
13:23pretending to be Geek Squad tech support.
13:26I'm just calling Geek Squad.
13:28Do you know how I can help you?
13:30After wasting her time and intercepting some of her scam
13:33calls, it's time for me to go.
13:36I'm calling Geek Squad.
13:37Do you know how I can help you?
13:39After wasting some of her scam calls,
13:41it's time for me to confront her.
13:44Hi, Alina.
13:45My name is David.
13:46I'm a journalist with a Canadian television program
13:49called Marketplace.
13:50I'm wondering why you scam.
13:54Why do you scam?
13:55And she hung up.
13:56It was the sigh of defeat and she hung up.
13:59We've defeated this scammer and now we're going where experts
14:03are trying to defeat them all.
14:06We're in Las Vegas, about to meet fraud fighters
14:09from around the world.
14:22Thousands are here.
14:23Fraud examiners, investigators, those with software solutions,
14:26even law enforcement.
14:28Forensic accountant John Tonsek explains how fraudsters
14:31manipulate our emotions to make money.
14:35It is striking about how many people feel they've just fallen
14:39under a trance of some sort.
14:42Why is that?
14:44It's the trust trap.
14:45People want to believe.
14:46They have to believe they can trust each other.
14:49You're my friend.
14:50I'm here to help you.
14:51And they know how to play on those emotions.
14:53Oh, they absolutely do.
14:54He uses magic to show us what he's talking about.
14:57Do you believe in ghosts?
14:59Uh, yeah, sure.
15:01I'll take this one.
15:02You take this one.
15:03Close your hand.
15:04Yeah.
15:05Put it palm down just like this.
15:06When I say three, you say go.
15:08Okay.
15:09Ready?
15:10One, two, three.
15:12Go.
15:13Did you see it go?
15:14No.
15:15See, mine's gone.
15:16And you have two.
15:17Go ahead, open your hand.
15:21That's crazy.
15:23That's magic.
15:24Tell me, how do you make this connect to what fraudsters
15:27are doing to their victims?
15:28The same techniques.
15:30You know, I mean, magicians manipulate through sleight of
15:34hand and misdirection or lying and cheating as you might call
15:37it.
15:38Fraudsters do exactly the same thing.
15:40I call it malicious magic.
15:44A scammer is using malicious magic in this call.
15:48It's one you've probably heard before.
15:58On eBay for Apple iPhone 11 Pro.
16:00The amount charged is $798.99.
16:05If you have not made the charge, please press one immediately.
16:09Fraudsters claiming there's a suspicious charge on your credit
16:12card.
16:13But Jim's using his skills to intervene.
16:16I've set things up in a way that we should be able to be the next
16:21person they call.
16:23Right away, Kit stumbles upon a victim about to pay up.
16:29What's your code?
16:30416.
16:31That's right here in Toronto.
16:33He's trying to install like a remote connection tool right now
16:35so I would say if we could stop it before now would be a great
16:38time.
16:39We can see he's on the phone with the scammer.
16:54But we're not stopping until we get through.
16:57Yes, hello.
16:58Listen, I am a journalist from CBC.
17:01That call that you were on, that's a scam.
17:05Okay.
17:08No problem.
17:09If you have a question about your credit card,
17:11turn your credit card over.
17:13Use the phone number on the card.
17:15Don't ever worry about a phone call coming in.
17:18That's a scam.
17:21No problem.
17:24Yeah, yeah, 28 years of military service as a military chaplain.
17:27A military chaplain.
17:28Okay, well, I'm glad that we've been able to get this
17:30information to you.
17:33Time to up the ante.
17:35Jim rolls out a new weapon in his arsenal.
17:38I've got what looks like a normal telephone keypad.
17:41But it's a very special sort of phone because what it does is
17:44it attracts phone calls from scammers.
17:47So I'm actually deliberately attracting real scam phone calls.
17:52And at the moment on this system,
17:54it's connected to 62 different scam call centres.
17:58And by me just hitting the green button on this telephone means
18:03that I am the next person that scammers call.
18:06Wow.
18:07And what I can do...
18:08Running all sorts of different kinds of scams?
18:10All sorts of different kinds of scams.
18:12And they will be targeting people in all sorts of countries,
18:16not just Canada, all over the world.
18:19In just seconds, all kinds of scam calls start rolling in.
18:23Including this one claiming to offer a loan.
18:34In reality, it's just an attempt to steal your personal info.
18:49Time for Kit to use his superpower,
18:51switching back to his old man Richard voice.
19:19I'm trying to make scarves for squirrels.
19:28How much do I make a month?
19:30Zero.
19:32Still, Kit gets approved for a fake loan.
19:41One quick second.
19:44How long of an account number do you think I can give this guy?
19:47Ten digits.
19:48Ten? I'm thinking like 20.
19:50Yeah.
19:51I'm just going to keep going.
19:52Just keep going.
19:54Okay, ready?
19:56Yes.
19:58It's four, six, three, five.
20:05After five minutes of repeating the fake account number...
20:10Four, nine, eight, four, nine.
20:13What are you saying?
20:14Four, six, three, five, four, nine.
20:16That's my account.
20:19So sorry.
20:20All right.
20:21You're lying, okay?
20:22I would never lie.
20:24I would never lie.
20:26I'm working like the last five years, okay?
20:29The last...
20:30You've been scamming people for the last five years?
20:35No, sir.
20:36I'm not scamming, okay?
20:38What is my account number?
20:40God.
20:41Oh.
20:44He said some not nice words at the end.
20:48This scammer may be done with us,
20:50but Ben's got another plan kicking into action.
20:54How much does the boss pay you?
20:55He's trying to appeal to a scammer to call it quits.
21:00You're working for him.
21:01You're making him rich.
21:02The work that you do puts money in his pocket,
21:05and what do you get?
21:06You just get to live with the guilt of scamming people
21:08for the rest of your life.
21:10The scammer hangs up.
21:12But Ben still has hope,
21:14because he's successfully pulled scammers out of the game before.
21:18What's your play there?
21:20I think a lot of people have good in them,
21:22and they probably would be doing something better
21:25if there was a way to make honest money
21:28and not have to rip people off.
21:30They'd probably do that.
21:31I believe that.
21:32And sometimes maybe they just need to be reminded of that.
21:35And so I'm always trying to just kind of appeal
21:37to their inner angels and hopefully encourage them
21:41to think of something better to do with their life.
21:45Identify different types of fraudsters.
21:48Back at the Global Fraud Conference in Las Vegas,
21:51the psychology of a scammer is top of mind
21:54for certified fraud examiner Stephanie Mongiello.
21:58So if a fraudster is feeling pressure,
22:01usually financial pressure, like I need money now,
22:05if they see an opportunity to steal from someone
22:10or commit a fraud,
22:11and the rationalization element is that story
22:15that they tell themselves to make it morally acceptable
22:19to commit the fraud.
22:21The ability to kind of tell yourself a story that,
22:24oh, I really need this money,
22:26and grandma that I'm scamming doesn't.
22:29Or, you know, they live in a rich country,
22:31and I live in a poor country.
22:32You know, those are the kind of things that will push
22:36just an average person over the line
22:38to actually committing a fraud.
22:41Kit Boga is using some psychology of his own,
22:44luring in a fraudster by sending a fake Bitcoin receipt.
22:48The scammer thinks he's getting valuable cryptocurrency.
22:52Welcome to the EasySend automated system.
22:55But it's actually an impossible maze
22:57from which there is no escape.
23:00The concept's pretty simple.
23:01I give a scammer a fake Bitcoin gift card or receipt,
23:05and they think it's gonna be easy to redeem.
23:07In their mind, it's a board game
23:09with no obstacles or challenges
23:11and free Bitcoin in the end.
23:12I purchased $1,200 worth of Bitcoins
23:17like your manager told me, and I have a receipt.
23:20All you gotta do, I think,
23:23I'm no brainiac,
23:25is click that link
23:28and type in the code.
23:30I've sent this to my internet girlfriend before.
23:33It's very easy.
23:35The scammer thinks he's won.
23:37In reality, my team and I have designed
23:39a series of challenges and obstacles
23:41that make this literally impossible.
23:44I Photoshop a fake picture of a receipt
23:48that leads them to my website,
23:51and this is full of traps for them.
23:54No matter what happens,
23:57it will say that there was an error
23:59and they have to call customer service,
24:01which ends up being me
24:03or a bunch of automated bots
24:05and endless call queues
24:08just to waste their time.
24:09And you'll never believe
24:10how much scammer time he's wasted.
24:12107 days worth of time.
24:1649 days worth of phone calls.
24:19Holy moly.
24:20So, how long does this swindler stay on?
24:23Looks like he spent about an hour
24:26and 43 minutes so far trapped in the maze.
24:30The phone line records everything
24:32on the fraudster's end.
24:34Please let me know you're still there
24:36by saying purple porcupine.
24:38Purple porcupine.
24:40Purple porcupine.
24:42That's just to make sure that he's paying attention.
24:44I'm going to connect him to a recording
24:46of just a call center
24:48as if someone picked up to answer
24:50but doesn't realize he's on the other end,
24:52so you just hear a bustling call center
24:54in the background.
24:56Hello?
24:58Hello?
25:00Hello?
25:02Imagine waiting 40 minutes and then...
25:04Hello?
25:05No one's on the other end.
25:07Hello?
25:09He's expecting.
25:10He thinks he's closer than he's ever been.
25:12Yeah.
25:13Just one last thing.
25:14Hello?
25:15Please tell us how we did.
25:16Nah, f*** you.
25:19That's a...
25:20Oh my goodness.
25:21It's a win in my book.
25:22It's a win, yes.
25:23It's a win.
25:27If seeing is believing,
25:29don't miss what's next.
25:31I've actually got CCTV of the scam happening.
25:34This is live?
25:35This is live, yeah.
25:36We'll show you what it looks like
25:38at the centre of a scam.
25:40You realize how bonkers this is,
25:41that he's scamming the scammer
25:44while we watch the scammer
25:46on the scammer's own video,
25:48which he doesn't know we're watching.
25:50Correct.
25:51That's coming up.
25:57We've teamed up with sophisticated scam busters
26:01who crack into criminal operations overseas.
26:04I've got something here.
26:05Band kit.
26:06You might want to have a look at this.
26:08So far, we've been hearing the fraudsters.
26:11Now, a scam buster named Scam Sandwich
26:14is helping Jim behind the scenes
26:16so we can see the scammers in real time.
26:20I've actually got CCTV of the scam happening.
26:23Is this live?
26:24This is live, yeah.
26:25This particular scam is in Pakistan
26:28and they're pretending to be
26:30a US company called Xfinity.
26:32Xfinity is one of the biggest telecom companies
26:35in the world.
26:36They get inbound calls,
26:38so all of the calls they receive
26:40are because people have typed in
26:42Xfinity help desk or similar
26:44in a search engine.
26:45So we're actually able to see and hear
26:48the scam happening.
26:50The scammers get a pin code sent to your phone
26:53and if you share it with them...
26:55What they can do then is
26:57really take over your account.
27:00They will reset your password.
27:02When they've got your personal information,
27:04they have done things like
27:06sign you up for a loan agreement.
27:08Oh, wow.
27:09And they steal money that way.
27:10So this is a very, very cruel scam.
27:12Like identity theft, the whole thing?
27:13The whole thing, yes.
27:15While Jim does a deeper dive
27:17into the scam call centre,
27:19Ben finds high value items for sale
27:22on suspect sites.
27:25These sites are a dime a dozen.
27:26There are so many of these sites
27:28that are selling classic cars
27:29and farm equipment
27:30and there's just so many red flags.
27:32First and foremost being
27:33is that this site is less than a month old.
27:35It claims to sell farm equipment.
27:38This one's down in the States.
27:40When I look up the address,
27:42there actually is a TriStar
27:44truck equipment place.
27:46It doesn't look like they sell tractors though.
27:48It looks like they just sell trucks.
27:52Ben tracks down the real company
27:54and calls them up.
27:58Hi there, my name is Ben.
27:59Is this TriStar and equipment?
28:04Do you have a website, sir?
28:05I'm on your website that I think might be yours
28:07but I'm not sure.
28:11And how did you come to that conclusion?
28:17I started doing this about six months ago.
28:18I called the local PD.
28:19They've just taken your name
28:20and they're kind of posing as you in Tennessee
28:23claiming to sell farm equipment
28:25just kind of using your good name?
28:27Yep.
28:28So you don't even have a website then, right?
28:31No, sir.
28:32I'm a one-man operation.
28:33I sell bucket trucks.
28:35So that's the real business.
28:37Now it's time for us to call the fake one
28:39that claims to sell farm equipment.
28:43Oh, here we go.
28:47Yeah, I'm looking at your inventory.
28:48Is your website up to date?
28:55Um, okay.
28:56Yeah, I'm looking at this 2014 John Deere 610-5D.
29:02That's a great deal.
29:03What's the cash?
29:06But the swindler only has one thing on his mind.
29:13Yeah.
29:14When exactly?
29:16Well, I mean as soon as you get me that invoice.
29:18And it doesn't take long for him to send it over.
29:21James, who's selling the tractor,
29:24has sent me the bill of sale
29:26and he's addressed it to me.
29:27I said my name is Al Beback.
29:29Yes.
29:30Al Beback.
29:32Al Beback.
29:33He didn't notice.
29:34No, he didn't.
29:35And so here it is.
29:38You can tell that's just kind of a fake signature.
29:41Once he knows that I'm committed to buying this tractor,
29:43he's going to give me that wiring instructions.
29:45Those details could help expose the scammer's account
29:48and authorities could use it to shut him down.
29:51I also thought it might be funny for you to call him up
29:55and you can say Al told me to stop by and take a picture
29:57and make sure it looks good.
29:58Verify the details.
29:59That it's there, yep.
30:04Hey James, I think you've been talking to my cousin Al Beback.
30:09Yep.
30:10Listen, can I meet you out front or anything like that?
30:15My cousin, he's so excited.
30:17Did he tell you everything, all the trouble he's having at the farm?
30:20Because this is going to be a lifesaver for him.
30:29Yeah, I can meet you down there.
30:31You want to send me the address?
30:40Okay, yeah, 15 miles.
30:41I got Dixie Chicks, the whole CD right in the car.
30:45Like the collector set, so I'll get right down there.
30:48The tractor trickster says he'll get back to us to confirm the visit.
30:52Like this moment is kind of what I live for,
30:55where we have the, it's right in front of them.
30:58To me, this is the perfect time to do whatever we want.
31:01A few minutes later, he calls back.
31:03Okay, here he is.
31:04Oh, oh, oh.
31:06James.
31:23Hmm, not surprising.
31:25But Ben's happy because he's wasted the scammer's day.
31:28This is a scam that might be posing as a legitimate business in the American South.
31:33I want to go, Jim, back to Pakistan,
31:35get an update from you on what's happening inside this call centre you have eyes on.
31:39Yeah, so I, through a process of elimination,
31:42I've worked out that the guy in the checked shirt here
31:45is the one I'm currently listening to.
31:48I can also see the files on his computer.
31:51And what I've been able to see is things like checks from victims of this scam.
31:58So they obviously want money.
32:01Time for Kit to call up the very same scammer we're seeing on their own security cameras.
32:07Can you hear me?
32:09Yes, I can hear you now.
32:10I'd like to know my account balance
32:14because I'm not sure if I've paid my last statement or not.
32:18So at the moment, he's talking to the guy in the shirt here with the loud headphones.
32:23This guy?
32:24Yeah.
32:25What's the verification code for?
32:30It's for verifying the phone number for your account.
32:32Do you realize how bonkers this is,
32:34that he's scamming the scammer while we watch the scammer on the scammer's own video,
32:41which he doesn't know we're watching?
32:43Correct.
32:44And what was your name again?
32:46Harry.
32:49Harrison?
32:51Harry.
32:53What number is this?
32:55Is this how I call you if I get disconnected?
32:58Yeah, that's my direct extension number from 266-278.
33:03266-278.
33:06I need four more digits.
33:09That's not enough digits for a phone number.
33:13Well, I've got a phone number.
33:16I think they just hung up on me.
33:20Up next, the bad guys have a new weapon that's making it even easier to make off with your money.
33:28What is AI like for a scammer?
33:31Oh, it's a playground.
33:32One of the hot topics this year at this conference.
33:34This sounds identical to me.
33:36And I'm me.
33:38That's not me.
33:39We'll show you just how scary it can be after the break.
33:43Scams are getting more dangerous, more sophisticated, and ever more convincing.
33:49And the rise of artificial intelligence is only making it easier.
33:53It's helping them sound more polished and professional.
33:56It's also helping them to create images and videos of different people that they might be impersonating.
34:03So, it's just making it easier.
34:06All the scammers need is a few seconds of someone's voice to clone it.
34:11These days, you are likely to encounter scams where you get AI to mimic victims' voices.
34:18And, of course, scammers will take advantage of that because if it sounds like this is a relative speaking to you,
34:24then obviously, it's a scam.
34:26It's a scam.
34:27It's a scam.
34:28It's a scam.
34:29It's a scam.
34:30It's a scam.
34:31You have to wake it up because if it sounds like this is a relative speaking to you,
34:34then obviously you're more inclined to believe it.
34:38Marilyn Crawford believes it.
34:42Her son Kevin wonders whether AI tricked her in a complicated con,
34:47with scammers pretending to be the police.
34:50Kevin, your mum Marylyn gets this phone call early in the morning,
34:54wakes her up.
34:56What do they say?
34:57We have your grandson in custody.
35:02He has been involved with a car theft and we need $9,000 to release him.
35:08It's known as the grandparent scam.
35:12They said here we have Ian here we're gonna put him on the phone and he goes
35:15hi grandma yeah I got in trouble here the police say they need some money to
35:22release me or they're gonna keep me in jail.
35:26But it's not really Ian.
35:28Scammers may have cloned Ian's voice from his social media posts.
35:32In that moment did you believe it was your grandson in trouble?
35:36I did I really did that's why I was anxious to get the money out.
35:41Oh yeah I'd do anything for my grandchildren.
35:45Mother said I don't drive I'm not well enough to drive I can't get to the bank.
35:51And they said that's that's no problem we'll send you a taxi.
35:54That taxi sent by the scammers takes her to the bank but inside an alert teller spots the scam.
36:02They called me and I said I think your mother's involved with a scam can you come pick her up?
36:06How did you feel in the moment?
36:09Terrible. I was I was just sick I didn't know what to do.
36:13I hate these people that target seniors they target vulnerable people and they're taking thousands and
36:18thousands of dollars they can't afford to pay out the money that's the
36:21retirement money but they're going forward with this because they'll do
36:24anything for their kids and grandchildren.
36:26And that's what fraudsters are betting on according to experts at the Global Fraud Conference.
36:33What is AI like for a scammer?
36:36Oh it's a playground it's like someone going into a candy store.
36:39And Peter Wormka knows the former CIA agent shows us just how easy it is.
36:45Tell me how good it can be you've got an example.
36:48Well actually I got one.
36:51Hi this is David Common reporting from Las Vegas Nevada at the 35th annual ACFE Global Fraud Conference.
36:57This event brings together thousands of fraud fighters from around the world where they can network and share insights.
37:03That's nuts.
37:04Is that you?
37:06One of the hot topics this year at this conference.
37:08This sounds identical to me.
37:10And I'm me that's not me.
37:14This is why it's so important to have this public awareness right which is key like what you're doing here today.
37:20Peter's pro tip have a code word with your loved ones so the next time you get a call you know who's on the other line.
37:27All you need to have is a security word, security phrase that's agreed upon between family members
37:33that if we receive this telephone call you know with some sort of emergency if that code word is not used it is fraudulent.
37:40Why is it important for you to to talk about your experience?
37:45Because it's still in the back of my mind.
37:47It's changed your life.
37:48It's changed it completely.
37:50What about you Kevin?
37:51Why is it important to speak out?
37:53Because I don't want it to happen to anybody else.
37:55So you got to put the word out to stop this.
37:59People would maybe say they oh I saw this on marketplace.
38:04There's one granny who's taking back control.
38:07Meet Daisy an AI generated persona created by British telecom company O2.
38:13Hello scammers.
38:15I'm your worst nightmare.
38:17I'm an AI created by O2 to waste phone scammers time.
38:23Just like our scam busters.
38:25Fraud calls that get flagged get rerouted to Daisy who then keeps them on the line.
38:31Because while they're busy talking to me they can't be scamming you and let's face it dear
38:37I've got all the time in the world.
38:39Speak through the scam.
38:45So how to protect what's yours?
38:48I want to share a couple tips that can help keep you and your family safe from scams.
38:52Our scam busters will bust out some tips after the break.
39:03We've saved nearly a dozen potential victims from losing their life savings.
39:08We're just trying to make sure people like you are protected.
39:14Rerouting 62 active scam centers targeting people around the world back to us.
39:20Let's face it Austin James you know that this is a scam.
39:26Even tapped into a call center in Pakistan so we could see some scammers in action.
39:32In the near decade we've been investigating everyone agrees public awareness is key.
39:38So we've created our own public service announcement with our anti-fraud squad.
39:44Hi Canada I am Jim Browning.
39:46Hey Canada my name is Ben also known as Pleasant Green.
39:49Hey Canada I'm Kit Boga and I want to share a couple tips that can help keep you and your family safe from scams.
39:55Whether a scammer tells you that you're winning a million dollars or they tell you that you owe a million dollars because you're in trouble they are always going to use a sense of urgency.
40:06They're going to pressure you to just move quickly and what you need to do when you're feeling pressured or overwhelmed is just to pause, take a breath, maybe say that you need to talk to a loved one.
40:17I need a little bit of time to figure out whether this isn't some sort of scam.
40:25As we talk to scammers one thing we've learned is they hate dealing with questions.
40:30Always feel free to ask a lot of questions.
40:32Why are you asking me to share the code when it says don't share it with anyone?
40:38Have a look closely at the message you've been given.
40:42Have a look closely at the message you've been given.
40:45Is there bad spelling?
40:47Is the grammar not right?
40:48Scammers are often known to be pretty sloppy so you can look for typos or for pixelated graphics or things in the emails that just make it look a little off.
41:01Scammers may ask to connect to your computer and that's always a huge red flag.
41:05Do you want me to download this ultra viewer?
41:08It says remote desktop software.
41:10Letting someone on your computer is basically like giving them the keys to your house.
41:14And so if you don't know them, if you don't trust them, there's really no reason that they should be on your computer.
41:23And lastly if you're in any doubt at all just ask the person to put whatever it is they want in writing and hang up and do not engage them again.
41:33Our fraud fighting trio have a message for the scammers out there too.
41:37Scammers watch your videos and they're going to watch this video.
41:41I think so, yeah.
41:42What's your message to them?
41:44I know that there are a lot of younger scammers who get involved in industry.
41:50I'd say part of me wants to say to them to just run away, to not lose your morality, not throw your ethics aside.
41:58Because someday you may call somebody who sounds like an old lady and it seems to be about to give you money,
42:04but it could actually be a Jim Browning.
42:07Please, please reconsider what you're doing.
42:09Look at the bigger picture.
42:11The three of you are such big names that scammers are watching this.
42:16What's your message to them?
42:18You know the hurt that you cause.
42:21You might think that the people that you hurt will be fine,
42:24but these scams leave big repercussions.
42:29There are better ways to make a living.
42:31You have the world at your fingertips.
42:32You can do a better job of living a life.
42:35Sometimes, these times don't make a lot of sense.
42:39When you can only wonder, what next?
42:42It's tough.
42:43Tough times.
42:44How to protect your family, your home, your health.
42:47If things don't go as planned and you're paying for it,
42:51you're going to have to pay for it.
42:52You're going to have to pay for it.
42:53You're going to have to pay for it.
42:54You're going to have to pay for it.
42:55You're going to have to pay for it.
42:57You're going to have to pay for it.
42:57You're going to have to pay for it.
42:58You're going to have to pay for it.
42:59You're going to have to pay for it.
43:00You're going to have to pay for it.
43:01You're going to have to pay for it.
43:01You're going to have to pay for it.
43:02Things don't go as planned and your paycheck doesn't go as far.
43:06Family 4 cost of living is actually substantially up there.
43:11One thing that's not going anywhere is us.
43:15We're following a stolen car right now.
43:17We've got the goods.
43:18And we'll point out the bad.
43:20Are you a fugitive?
43:22Wow, he hung up.
43:24For you, but not without you.
43:27So what is next?
43:28What should we be investigating?
43:30Now people have to pay for some medical costs and that's astonishing.
43:34When you try to go down that rabbit hole to find out like,
43:36oh, is this like really made in Canada?
43:38Do you want us to go down that rabbit hole?
43:41Please do.
43:43We want to know because this is my marketplace.
43:47This is my marketplace.
43:49This is my marketplace.
44:00This is my marketplace.