Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly joins Power & Politics as President Donald Trump utters fresh threats against Canada, confirming Canada is in talks with the European Union to ‘work together’ on defence procurement. Plus, CBC’s Richard Madan brings us the latest from Washington.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Okay, we begin in Washington, where President Donald Trump is uttering more threats against
00:04Canada and talking about who should run Canada.
00:07The CBC's Richard Madden is on this.
00:09He joins us from Washington, D.C., live.
00:12Richard, this all happened on Fox News, because of course.
00:15So let's start with what Trump is saying about Canada's political leaders.
00:18Yeah, hey, David.
00:19Well, we've heard President Trump use Canada as a punching bag, but I think this is the
00:22first time we've seen him and heard him fully inject himself into Canadian politics.
00:27Now, Fox News host Laura Ingraham was delicately trying to press him on how his hostilities
00:33towards Canada are actually helping the Liberals.
00:36We've seen polls showing the Liberals rebounding from the once-double-digit lead held by the
00:40Conservatives.
00:41And take a listen to how Trump responded.
00:43The Liberal Party is going to win now in the next election, most likely.
00:48And they were down tonight.
00:49I don't care.
00:50I don't care.
00:51Isn't that going to make them more hostile to us and possibly open the door for China
00:56closer to Canada?
00:58And that would really put us in a bind.
00:59The Conservative that's running is stupidly no friend of mine.
01:03I don't know him, but he said negative things.
01:04So when he says negative things, I couldn't care less.
01:07I think it's easier to deal, actually, with a Liberal.
01:11And maybe they're going to win, but I don't really care.
01:13It doesn't matter to me at all.
01:16So yeah, that was stunning.
01:17Now, David, we've heard other members of Trump's Cabinet accuse the Liberals of using Trump's
01:22tariffs for their own political gain.
01:24But clearly, the White House and the administration are doing it too.
01:28Some of my political contacts here have mused that Trump's strategy to weigh in on Canadian
01:32politics is a way to juice up his own base, because it's a lot easier to attack a Liberal
01:38than a Conservative.
01:39Now, I should also mention, not everyone in the MAGA base is buying it.
01:43We heard radio host Joe Rogan recently calling Trump's attacks against Canada ridiculous.
01:48And we've seen other Republicans kind of sloughing it off.
01:51But the fact that Trump is now weighing in on Canada's pending election is likely another
01:55factor the leaders up there are using to their advantage, and you played some of it just
01:59moments ago.
02:00Yeah, it's interesting here that the Fox News decision desk is predicting a Liberal victory
02:04on election night when we don't even know the date.
02:06But you know, Trump also is, again, Richard, talking about Canada becoming the 51st state.
02:12I mean, he said this more than once in the interview.
02:14What stood out this particular time?
02:16Yeah, and also look at the betting markets too, because those movements, those have had
02:20some movements too.
02:22You know, as for this 51st state, you know, we've heard this before.
02:26It's gone from trolling, but now, is Trump serious?
02:30We heard how Trump say he would use economic force against Canada, and these tariffs are
02:34likely the starting point.
02:35But once again, host Laura Ingraham gently pushed Trump on why he has it out for Canada,
02:41and here's how he responded.
02:42Listen.
02:43Look, I deal with every country, indirectly or directly.
02:47One of the nastiest countries to deal with is Canada.
02:50They make a lot of, millions of automobiles are sent in.
02:54I'd rather have them made in Michigan, I'd rather have them made in South Carolina, or
02:58any one of our-
02:59But you're tougher with Canada than you are with some of our biggest adversaries.
03:03Only because it's meant to be our 51st state.
03:07So Canada, nastier than, I don't know, North Korea, Iran, like actual adversaries.
03:12So that was stunning as well, but we are seeing Trump really escalating his harsh rhetoric
03:17and hostilities against Canada.
03:19So that said, I wouldn't be surprised if we'll hear more of this annexation talk and trashing
03:24Canada in the middle of the campaign once Canada's election gets underway up there.
03:29Yeah, it's going to be soon.
03:31It's a wild election coming.
03:32All right, Richard, thank you so much.
03:33This is CBC's Richard Madden in Washington.
03:36Conservative leader Pierre Polyev has been quick to use U.S. President Trump's latest
03:39comments about the Liberals against them.
03:41Today, Polyev said that Trump endorsed Liberal leader Mark Kearney and agreed that a Liberal
03:47would be easier for Trump to deal with.
03:50On that point, it's true.
03:53I'm a strong leader.
03:55I'm a tough guy to deal with.
03:56I'm firm in my convictions and I'll always put Canada first.
04:01By contrast, in 10 years, the Liberals have blocked resource projects, hiked taxes and
04:07driven a half trillion dollars of investment to the U.S.
04:12Minister of Foreign Affairs, Melanie Jolie joins me now.
04:14Ministers, good to see you.
04:15Thank you for being here.
04:16Good to see you.
04:17Do you agree with what Donald Trump had to say in that interview, that it's easier to
04:19deal with the Liberal, as he called them, than the Conservative?
04:23I mean, that sounds like the president thinks your government will be easier to deal with
04:25than a Conservative government.
04:26What do you think?
04:27Well, my job is not to comment on what President Trump prefers.
04:30My job is to say what I think Canadians prefer.
04:33And what they prefer is actually an adult in the room to deal with a president that
04:38can be sometimes very unpredictable and that a president that has been stating that he
04:46would annex Canada and also a president that has been clear in terms of imposing unjustifiable
04:54and, of course, unjustified tariffs against us.
04:57So I think that the rhetoric that Pallièv is using right now just doesn't stand.
05:04And I don't think it has any credibility in the eyes of Canadians.
05:07But when the president says, I think the Liberal will be easier to deal with, what do you think
05:11Canadians infer from that?
05:13I think our job right now is to defend Canadian jobs and Canadian way of life.
05:18It's clearly not to have somebody that mimics President Trump and has been mimicking a lot
05:24of the MAGA movement for too many years.
05:30And that has been creating a lot of frustration also amongst Canadians that are worried that
05:36what is happening south of the border will happen now in Canada.
05:40So I think at the end of the day, when election starts, and they will start at one point,
05:47the question will be who can handle better the Canada-U.S. relationship.
05:51And I think we've been showing steady leadership on it, steadfast support towards Canadians.
06:03And I think that the country is united.
06:06To be frank, I think that if you forget politics, just a second, and I know this show is called
06:11Power and Politics, you know, Canadians just want us to be doing the work to make sure
06:18that they're safe, that they have a job, and that ultimately Canada is well protected.
06:25And I hear so much anxiety across the country, and so many people that are worried.
06:31Well, we're there, we're doing the job, and we'll continue to do the job.
06:34Okay, well it sounds like election, though, is coming very soon.
06:36We showed a picture earlier in the show, I think you might have still been in the cabin,
06:39meaning it's your campaign bus.
06:40It's being wrapped up and prepped in a garage in Mississauga.
06:44So that tells us it's coming soon.
06:46The other thing that's coming soon is the April 2nd reciprocal tariff deadline in the
06:50United States, right?
06:52So we've heard from cabinet representatives in the United States saying they're going
06:55to put those tariffs in place, and then countries can sort of bargain trade-offs essentially
07:00to have them come down.
07:02How does the Government of Canada do that if we're in the middle of an election campaign
07:05on the 2nd of April?
07:06First and foremost, we will be ready.
07:08So we've said already that we would be imposing tariffs against, counter tariffs against the
07:16tariffs imposed on us.
07:18We've already imposed $60 billion worth of tariffs.
07:21We already said also that there was $100 billion more that we were ready, that we were putting
07:27in the window, and there's already consultations that are happening as we speak on it.
07:32So we've done the work.
07:33Meanwhile, we've said we would be there for workers.
07:36So we'll make sure that workers are well supported.
07:39And meanwhile, we will continue to engage with the U.S. administration.
07:43I was with Secretary of State Rubio last week.
07:45I've been in contact with him over the weekend, and I'll continue to engage.
07:50And I was on the phone with Lindsey Graham this morning.
07:53And you know, I know that my colleagues are also in contact with key interlocutors within
07:58the Trump administration.
07:59We are doing the job.
08:00With $125 billion, the second tranche of the tariffs that were announced by the former
08:05prime minister, they're on hold right now because of the pause on some of the tariffs
08:11from President Trump.
08:13If we get to a point, though, in April, when the pause comes off or the reciprocal tariffs
08:16go in, can you move ahead with that second wave of tariffs if we're in a caretaker government
08:22because of an election campaign?
08:23Yes, of course.
08:24Or does it have to wait?
08:25Of course.
08:26Ultimately, we are the government and ultimately, our job is to defend the national interest
08:31of Canadians.
08:32And that's what we'll do.
08:33And that's why we've put everything in the window to make sure that we would be able
08:37to do so.
08:38We know what are the dates.
08:40We knew that, you know, there was the first executive order linked to fentanyl, which
08:44was, we all know, a bogus argument to impose 25% tariffs on our goods.
08:50Now, we've been able to pause a part of it.
08:54Meanwhile, we knew that the steel and aluminum sector would be targeted, not only the Canadian
08:59one, but also around the world.
09:00So we work with our European friends on the other side of the Atlantic to make sure we
09:05would have countermeasures, counter tariffs together.
09:09That's what we did.
09:10And there will be more to announce before the end of the week because ultimately, and
09:15I've been saying that in every single interview, David, we need to win the hearts and minds
09:20of Americans.
09:22Overall, right now, we're seeing that it is having an impact.
09:28Americans are preoccupied.
09:29They know that this is costing more for them at the pump, at the grocery store, or just
09:34generally when they buy a house or they want to do renovations.
09:38And so this affordability issue that we're seeing also in the U.S. is gaining ground
09:45and we need to make sure that we have the American people saying to their house representatives,
09:51their senators, their governors, ultimately the Trump administration, it's enough.
09:55So more to announce by the end of the week, as in more retaliatory measures to the U.S.
09:59or more supports for Canadian workers?
10:00I just wasn't quite clear on what you meant there.
10:02More to do to make sure that Americans know what President Trump is doing.
10:06And I'll keep that.
10:07Okay.
10:08It's like a communications effort?
10:10Is that what you're-
10:11I'll have more to say.
10:12Okay.
10:13All right.
10:14Well, all right.
10:15Trump had more to say last night about Canada becoming the 51st state, which I know Prime
10:20Minister Carney has said that's the kind of thing that needs to stop before they'll
10:24sit down and have a proper conversation about things.
10:28One of the issues he talks about is military spending.
10:30There's reporting in the New York Times saying that Canada is prepared to join the European
10:33Union in a military industry buildup, essentially forming a defense partnership where Canadian
10:39defense suppliers get access to the European market and back and forth.
10:43How serious is that?
10:44How advanced are those talks?
10:45This is very serious.
10:46We've been in talks with the European Union to make sure that we could work on defense
10:51procurement together.
10:52We already have a free trade agreement with the European Union.
10:55Our ambassador at the European Union, Eilish Campbell, has been in close contact with also
11:00Ursula von der Leyen, so the president of the European team.
11:04I went a month ago to Europe to make sure that we could be part of that partnership.
11:12Former Prime Minister Trudeau did so at the time, and I think it's yielding towards good
11:18news because ultimately we need to make sure that we can be closer to the Europeans as
11:24we're developing new partnerships.
11:26And we know that we're over-reliant right now on the U.S. on different aspects of our
11:34relationship, including defense procurement.
11:36And so that was part of my conversations also at the G7 last week when I was with the
11:42different foreign ministers of the EU.
11:44Bill Blair was here on Friday, and he said that in his first meeting with Mark Kearney
11:48after they were all sworn in, that the prime minister asked him to review the F-35 contract.
11:52I was in that meeting.
11:53So is this part of that, that looking to Europe maybe for Saab, Gripens, instead of buying
11:59all the F-35s?
12:00Is this the sort of thing we're talking about, or is this another path for other purchases?
12:04I have too much respect for my fantastic colleague, Minister of Defense Bill Blair,
12:08to answer that question for him.
12:09But what I can tell you, though, is that we need to be able to have many options.
12:13And so I won't comment on what he has said regarding the F-35s, because I think it was
12:18a sound decision for the prime minister to ultimately ask for a review.
12:23But meanwhile, the defense industry here at home needs to be built.
12:27We need to work on our own defense industry, and we need to find different partners around
12:32the world.
12:33It's difficult to contemplate Canada buying military hardware for its national security
12:38from a country where the leadership is openly talking about annexation.
12:41I mean, do you still believe, does Prime Minister Kearney believe, as Prime Minister Trudeau
12:45has suggested, that annexation is still the ultimate goal here?
12:48We've said it many times that we think it is not only the ultimate goal, but it's being
12:53repeated every single time President Trump talks about Canada.
12:59So this is our sovereignty.
13:01We don't question it.
13:03We don't laugh about it.
13:04This is something that must be respected at all times.
13:07So based on that, we'll take decisions.
13:10And we need to have options based on that.
13:12Also, we worked on having a strong EU partnership on defense.