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00:00【Tonight's 8th Gen】
00:05Tonight's 8th Gen is....
00:07【Tonight's 8th Gen】
00:10【Tonight's 8th Gen】
00:11【Tonight's 8th Gen】
00:12【Tonight's 8th Gen】
00:12The band representing Japan, Southern All-Stars Special
00:16【Tonight's 8th Gen】
00:17【Tonight's 8th Gen】
00:18In the past 4 years, all 4 of their albums and singles have won their 1st place
00:22【Tonight's 8th Gen】
00:25【Tonight's 8th Gen】
00:28Oh, it's the 80's.
00:37There are so many good songs.
00:52It's nice to feel the summer.
00:58It's the 80's.
01:07All the songs are strong.
01:12And this month, the 16th album, Thank You So Much, won the first place.
01:18The record has been updated.
01:21It's amazing.
01:22It's a national band that has been supported for a long time.
01:27It's amazing.
01:28In fact, until now, the behind-the-scenes of composing songs has rarely been talked about on TV.
01:39However, tonight...
01:42Really?
01:46Good evening.
01:48I feel like it's real.
01:50Nice to meet you.
01:54Finally, Keisuke Kuwata's interview came true.
02:02What is looking for?
02:05I think it was really a one-shot.
02:07We felt that we couldn't be reckless.
02:12A precious statement that has never been heard before.
02:17From a national hit to an aggressive song.
02:22What does Keisuke Kuwata, the main character of Sazan, who writes and arranges almost all songs, talk about?
02:34This interview was recorded at the Victor 401 studio, a so-called home ground where many famous songs of Sazan were born from the beginning of their debut.
02:46Nice to meet you again.
02:49Do you sometimes talk about the program on the radio?
02:53Yes, I do.
02:55I watch it.
02:57I'm glad to hear that.
03:00I'm glad to hear that.
03:01I'm glad to hear that.
03:02When people of different generations, such as producers, talk about it, I can tell them what's going on.
03:15I've been asked a lot of questions from the fans of Sazan.
03:20I've been asked a lot of questions from the fans of Sazan.
03:21You're so kind.
03:23You're so kind.
03:25I've seen Kuwata perform, but I've never heard him talk.
03:32I've never heard him talk.
03:34I'm sure he's going to talk about something else.
03:37I'm sure he's going to talk about something else.
03:42You're the center of popular music in Japan.
03:47I'm sure you'll be on the show.
03:51I'm sure you'll be on the show.
03:52I'm sure you'll be on the show.
03:56I'm really looking forward to it.
03:57I'm really looking forward to it.
03:58I wonder what he's going to say.
04:00And in the studio...
04:02Atsuo Katayama, who has been in charge of the support keyboard at Sazan's live shows for many years and is also an arranger.
04:16Junichi Soga, who is involved in the production of many works with Atsuo Katayama.
04:22Two people who have great trust in Kuwata.
04:26Junichi Soga and Atsuo Katayama.
04:27Junichi Soga and Atsuo Katayama.
04:31The first song that Kuwata taught me was a simulation.
04:42The first song that Kuwata taught me was a simulation.
04:44I've never seen Kuwata talk like this.
04:48I've never seen Kuwata talk like this.
04:51I think Kuwata is a mysterious person.
04:55I think Kuwata is a mysterious person.
05:00I'm hoping that this time, I'll be able to get closer to his confidence.
05:08Atsuo Katayama and Junichi Soga, who are working together nearby, don't know much about each other.
05:14How does Kuwata's songwriting begin?
05:19How does Kuwata's songwriting begin?
05:23What do you start with when you're making a song?
05:27When I'm making a song, I don't start with a guitar.
05:33There are many things.
05:37When I move from my bedroom to my study,
05:43I'm in the middle of something.
05:46I'm in the middle of something.
05:47I'm in the middle of something.
05:48I'm in the middle of something.
05:49I'm in the middle of something.
05:51I think I was in the living room.
05:59I think I was in the living room watching a commercial.
06:03I saw a commercial in the living room and went to the study.
06:10I thought, oh, I could hear the commercial.
06:14I thought, oh, I could hear the commercial.
06:16I thought I might be able to do something like that.
06:26I have something to do.
06:28You have something to do.
06:30People call me a heroine.
06:33But I don't think that's the case.
06:36As a musician, I often say that
06:40the way to do it is to live it.
06:44That's cool.
06:46I think everything is a magic trick.
06:50It's like, John Lennon sings like this.
06:54But I like it, so let me do it.
06:57I'm still doing it at this age.
07:00It's amazing that you can say this.
07:04If you do it in the basement, in the dark,
07:07I don't think it will come down much.
07:09So you don't feel like you're going to make it?
07:12No, not at all.
07:16The best thing is to take a walk.
07:20Taking a walk is the best way to think about things.
07:24Also, even if it's in a private room,
07:26it's like moving a car by yourself.
07:29I think about a lot of things there,
07:33and sometimes I sing.
07:35In the car?
07:36Yes, I sing.
07:38Speaking of songwriting,
07:40I used to talk about it from the window.
07:45In the bedroom or living room.
07:47I think you've been thinking for a long time
07:51about how easy it is to write a song
07:54when you're in that state.
07:56So I think it's more like an athlete.
07:59What kind of mental state are you in
08:02that makes it easier to follow the melody?
08:05I always think about that,
08:07so I think that's why those words come out.
08:10It's a different dimension from the beginning.
08:14You kind of figured it out, didn't you?
08:17There's a living room, there's a bedroom,
08:19and there are a lot of details.
08:21You say it's a magic trick,
08:23but Tazan's songs are all about magic.
08:26He's the one who's been magical the most.
08:30I wonder where that humility comes from.
08:34I thought it was amazing.
08:37Do you take a walk every day?
08:39No, I don't take a walk every day,
08:41but when I'm writing lyrics or songs,
08:45I go for a walk.
08:47The information that comes in from the eyes and ears
08:51changes in my head.
08:54Like the sensation of skin or the wind.
08:57It leads to the realization that there is such a thing.
09:02Do you record the phrases you come up with at that time?
09:07Yes, I do. I put them on my smartphone.
09:11We have a question from Soga,
09:13who is also involved in the production of Tazan's songs.
09:17I have a question for Mr. Soga.
09:19When you make a song,
09:21do the harmony and melody come out together?
09:24Do you improve the melody and harmony in detail?
09:29Yes, I do.
09:31The harmony and melody come out in some parts,
09:37but I ask the composer to decide
09:40what kind of tension and harmony to add.
09:45But I don't think it's roughly done.
09:51Do you write the chorus?
09:53No, I don't.
09:55I only write the chords.
09:57Like the break.
10:01Or the C, C7, F.
10:07I only write those details.
10:11If it takes a long time, I can't help it.
10:14By the way, in the previous episode,
10:16Kuwata commented on the special feature of Harayuko.
10:21When I make a song and have a little trouble,
10:24I sometimes ask her for her opinion.
10:28I invite her to the studio and ask her to listen to it.
10:33She gives me her opinion.
10:37She is the closest person to me,
10:40and I can trust her the most.
10:44So I sometimes ask her what she thinks about it.
10:48I wonder if this harmony is good.
10:51In Shibuya, she sang her song
10:54on the time machine of the company.
11:11I made this song,
11:13and I added a lullaby to it.
11:17It was a lullaby.
11:19She sang it like this.
11:21When I let her listen to it,
11:23she looked at me like this.
11:27She said,
11:28I don't like it.
11:30I was scared at that time.
11:32I should have let her listen to it at this stage.
11:35So I made a lullaby again,
11:38and when I let her listen to it,
11:41she got excited.
11:43She said,
11:44I think it's good.
11:46Don't worry about it.
11:51It's very charming.
11:54When did you decide to arrange the song?
11:59We were originally a head arranger.
12:04We played instruments together.
12:07That's how it started.
12:10As an arranger,
12:12I don't think much.
12:14Even if Tatsuro Yamashita thinks it's this much,
12:16it's this much.
12:18Sometimes I think it would be nice
12:20if I could read the score properly.
12:22But I think he's careful
12:24about things that can't be described
12:26in the score,
12:28such as mouth,
12:30instruments,
12:32and so on.
12:34I think he's doing it carefully.
12:37I think it was good
12:39for us to have that kind of interaction.
12:43It's very precious.
12:46It's interesting.
12:48Thank you very much.
12:50I thought it was a band.
12:52There are some parts
12:54that change
12:56when the members get together
12:58and try to arrange it.
13:00Rather than conveying it in the score,
13:02I think it's very good
13:04to convey the essence
13:06of the song
13:08such as the type of song,
13:10the main color,
13:12and so on.
13:14It's a band,
13:16so we can respond to it right away.
13:18When I first heard it,
13:20I thought it was a solid song.
13:22There's always a song
13:24that has a solid foundation.
13:26The melody and harmony
13:28that become the backbone
13:30of the song.
13:32That's right.
13:34We always have a solid foundation.
13:36It doesn't shake anymore.
13:38From there,
13:40we decide
13:42whether to add
13:44or not.
13:46That's what I'm doing
13:48with Mr. Katayama.
13:50That's a very quick decision.
13:52It's a plan.
13:54So we can present
13:56a lot of things.
13:58We can do whatever we want.
14:00We can do whatever we want.
14:02We can say what we want.
14:04We can say what we want.
14:06From the many famous songs
14:08that have been created,
14:10a professional who respects Sazan
14:12is selected.
14:14In addition to the guest of the studio,
14:16this artist who loves Sazan
14:18participated in the survey.
14:20Amazing member.
14:22Mizuno and Love Psychedelico Naoki
14:24chose the song
14:26as their debut song.
14:36At that time,
14:38they were called
14:40tongue twisters.
14:42As time goes by,
14:44it is realized that
14:46it was an invention
14:48that made Japanese
14:50into Groovy.
14:52This humor called tongue twister
14:54is genius.
14:56That's why it reaches
14:58the world.
15:00At the time of his debut,
15:02you can see how
15:04Mr. Kuwata was
15:06ahead of his time.
15:24The line is exciting.
15:26It's cool.
15:46Next,
15:48a ballad representative of Japan
15:50chosen by three professionals
15:52in the world.
15:58This is it.
16:00Good song.
16:22Good song.
16:52Good song.
16:56Satou, the drummer of
16:58Indigo La End,
17:00loves the song
17:02of the big hit single
17:04Minna no Uta.
17:06What?
17:12The production of the song
17:14is unstable and emotional.
17:16The lyrics are self-criticism
17:18and music industry criticism.
17:20The song is full of emotions.
17:22The complexity of Minna no Uta
17:24as a B-side of Minna no Uta
17:26can't be digested easily.
17:28I feel the charm.
17:50I feel the charm.
18:02What Soga chose
18:04is a duet song
18:06released in 1980
18:08by Kuwata and Hara.
18:20Even though I'm not an idol,
18:23I have a mysterious expectation.
18:26What will I think at that time?
18:44No woman
18:47is as coward as a man.
18:50I don't care if my life is a mess
18:56In Yokohama, it's a traditional way of saying goodbye
19:03Let me try to be back to this place, baby
19:10Makoto Saito, who has been a support guitarist for Sazan for many years, chose the 50th single, which became the subject of the drama O-OKU.
19:20I will take you higher
19:24I need more of you to make it
19:28Baby, it's your desire
19:31Let's go, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight
19:36Mama, baby, I fell in love with you
19:40Give me, give me one more chance
19:44I can do it with a cute woman
19:48Give to me one more time
19:59Next, Mizuno released a famous ballad released in 1996, which is a selection of songs for a completely personal reason.
20:10When I was an innocent child chasing a dream
20:19Do you know why I was scolded?
20:29Just before his debut, he had a chance to watch the live performance of Yokohama Arena of Sazan All-Stars, and the last song of the live performance was this song.
20:41It's not me as expected
20:44At that time, I was trying to ignore my parents' opposition and move on the path of music, and the lyrics resonated too directly.
20:55At that time, the live performance of Sazan All-Stars was an entertainment where adults and children could enjoy without any anxiety from the beginning to the end.
21:06That's right, we should aim for this scene
21:11It was a live performance that made me see the scene I should aim for
21:17Who did Mizuno go with?
21:19I went with three people
21:22It's not me as expected
21:32I met a wonderful person
21:42If my tears are about to overflow
21:52I'm sorry I can't say anything
22:02Looking at the reason for choosing this song
22:06There are many elements in the music of Sazan All-Stars, and there are many elements that can be analyzed in this kind of program.
22:15So, is it possible to make a good song by collecting those elements?
22:17It's not that difficult
22:20Sazan's songs are songs that will definitely touch each generation's memories
22:27I think it's a song that makes you think that the secret is not easy to unravel
22:35It's a true Yokozuna
22:39I'm in a position to talk about the musicality of Sazan
22:45Looking at this, I want to raise a white flag
22:50It's too big, I wonder where to start
22:54I see
22:56I'd like to ask you a lot about the album
22:58How did you start making it?
23:01I didn't start making an album
23:05There's something going on
23:09For example, I'm doing a live show in Shigasaki
23:12I'm going to a festival
23:15I have to move as Sazan soon
23:22That's how I started making songs
23:28Then, what kind of album is the latest work, Thank You So Much?
23:40This is the first time I've seen this in a drama
23:52I love you
24:08It's like Sazan
24:10It's a genre
24:12I'm sorry mom
24:14I miss your love
24:18I can't laugh
24:21Lonely alone at night
24:24Sorrow is a bouquet
24:27It's a song that was made before the earthquake
24:37I'm sorry I'm a wet bouquet
24:42I'm a wet bouquet
24:56The color of the track is different
24:59But it's all Sazan
25:01It's like thickness and depth
25:04You can tell just by looking at this
25:06Sorrow is a bouquet
25:08It's a song before the debut
25:10Even if it's in this, it doesn't lose anything
25:15It's Sazan
25:17I got the idea of putting this in
25:20Everyone gathered in the studio
25:22Me, Saito Makoto, and the guitar participated
25:27We recorded it
25:29It's been a long time since I've done this
25:32It was so much fun
25:35It's a song from 50 years ago
25:40I'm so happy to be able to play it now
25:45Why did you decide to put this in?
25:50Hara-san found the demo tape
25:54Kuwa-san listened to it
25:57If we were going to put it in, we had to do it now
26:02How did you come up with the idea?
26:04It was Kuwa-san's idea
26:06We wanted to go with the band sound
26:12How did Kuwa-san make this new album?
26:16I listened to it on my own radio
26:20Is that possible?
26:22I think it's possible
26:27The total production period is 21 months
26:3021 months? Really?
26:33It's written there
26:35What was the most time-consuming part?
26:39When we do a show with a demo tape
26:42We often say, it's a demo tape
26:45So we don't have to worry about it
26:48We're not serious
26:50It just starts
26:52The song starts to take shape
26:56We get serious
26:58When the song starts to take shape
27:02It's hard to keep up
27:04So we listen to it on our own radio
27:07And try to fix it
27:12Like raising the chorus a little
27:15Or compressing it a little
27:17It's hard to keep up
27:19That's pretty much it
27:22All the songs that were released before the album
27:27Including mixing and mastering
27:29The details have changed
27:32Usually listeners don't notice that
27:37That kind of thing
27:39You fix it on your own radio
27:42Is that possible?
27:45I don't think so
27:47I think it's possible
27:52The new album took 21 months to make
27:56There's a song that was a turning point
28:02There's a song called Boogie Woogie Night
28:04It's the first song
28:12Our operator, Kadoya
28:16He's from Kawacho
28:18He contacted us
28:20He made a rhythm loop
28:23He asked us to make a rhythm loop
28:26Of the current rhythm
28:28He said
28:30So we went to the studio
28:32And asked him to make a loop
28:34Of 6 or 7 different rhythms
28:36He said it wasn't good
28:38He said it was boring
28:40He said it was good
28:42I think that's the Boogie Woogie Night
28:44He made a song
28:46With the guitar
28:48And played it
28:50That's how we made it
28:52It's not the first time
28:54But it's evolving
28:56The new technology
28:59And the way we record
29:01Is becoming very important
29:03In our activities
29:06We asked Honma about the evolution of this new technology
29:11Have you ever felt resistance
29:14To new technology in music production and recording?
29:18I don't feel resistance
29:21Young people
29:23For example, engineers
29:25We're all young
29:27As directors
29:29When we work with people like that
29:32Of course, we have to talk about new technology
29:38And we have to talk about how it used to be
29:42In the past
29:44For example, since our debut
29:46Until about 1956
29:48We'd do it on the count of three
29:50The band would get together
29:52We'd do it on the count of three
29:54And then we'd switch
29:56But now
29:58If I were to put it the other way
30:00Recording
30:02And band activities
30:04Are slightly different
30:06I think
30:08Recording is a place for music production
30:12And band activities
30:14So it's different from a band session
30:24What about this song?
30:26Familiar even in commercials
30:45How did you decide on the theme and sound?
30:50We made a demo tape in the studio
30:54And we played it to our drummer, Hiroshi Matsuza
30:59And he said, it's like David Bowie
31:01Like Elton John
31:03Yes, yes, yes
31:05Something like that
31:07We have a similar generation
31:10Like David Bowie
31:12T-Rex, Elton John
31:14We have a British feel
31:20Like Gramrock
31:22Our generation was influenced by those times
31:27And the chorus
31:28I have a tempo song
31:33I have a tempo song
31:37No matter how many times I sing
31:39It's like
31:41Looking for
31:43Looking for
31:48What is looking for?
31:52It's good to have a tempo song
31:54I'm looking for something
31:56Looking for
31:58And then the lyrics
32:00I left looking for
32:02So it's not like looking for from the beginning
32:05When I sing a tempo song
32:07It comes out like this
32:09I can't help it, so I put it together
32:13It's a combination of looking for
32:15Space came out
32:17Space is a space
32:19A dream space
32:21It became a song like that
32:23And then you went on a space trip
32:25I'm looking for something
32:27I don't know if it's a sense of life or a space trip
32:30But the main character is looking for something
32:33So the tempo song is not stupid
32:36Space
32:38What is space?
32:40Ah, it's space
32:42It spreads from there
32:45And what Soga paid attention to
32:47This guitar phrase of the song
32:56Guitar phrase
32:58The guitar phrase is called Tararira Tararira
33:01When this phrase came out
33:03Soga-san decided the core of this song
33:07Really?
33:09Maybe, but for Mr. Kuwata
33:12I think it's a phrase that he came up with
33:15with the absence of a non-genre
33:17There are various sounds like Asian
33:19It is symbolized by this phrase
33:21without depending on anything
33:24That's it
33:26By chance
33:29This is it
33:33Actually this
33:41In the legendary SF anthology of the United States
33:44Even in Japan, it is a homage to a TV program
33:47that gained popularity with the title of Mystery Zone
33:52Furthermore
33:54This
33:56This is also included
33:58If you listen carefully
34:10This is 007
34:13007
34:15Is that so?
34:17007
34:21007
34:28This
34:30In the chat
34:32007
34:33It's called 007 now
34:35007
34:37It's 007 chord
34:39There was a time when I said
34:41Anyway, that song
34:43It's an Asian song
34:46It was a world where everything was a mess
34:49It was a song that put a lot of materials
34:52It was a song like boiling
34:56007, which happened to be in the chat
34:59I put it in
35:01It's a bit like the 60s
35:05Something like the tension of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union
35:10I think it's a movement of anti-noise
35:14I thought I'd put it in
35:16To some extent, the engineers there
35:20Mr. Soma and Mr. Kutayama
35:23There may have been a target
35:25How is it?
35:27Something like that
35:29How is this?
35:31It's like a costume
35:38It's not like this because I decided
35:42I'm always checking with everyone
35:44No matter what you put out
35:46No matter what you play
35:48There is an environment where you can accept it
35:52The overall mood, including the studio
35:54The mood of the band is very good
35:58How about a sense of tension?
36:00To be clear, there is not much about recording
36:04When you make it, you accept various opinions
36:08The entrance is loose
36:11The exit is packed by yourself
36:14The balance is amazing
36:17And a lot of questions from professionals
36:21How to put words on sound
36:25Love Psychedelic Naoki
36:28At that time, between rock'n'roll and Japanese
36:32With a big groove
36:34How to handle Japanese in rock
36:38The next generation
36:40I can't measure the achievements that have been passed on widely
36:44Furthermore, Japanese
36:46Technique to put on the rhythm of music
36:48A witch that was influenced
36:52Mr. Kuwata's lyrics
36:54Connecting everyday words
36:56Integrated with the groove of music
37:02Speaking of Sazan's song
37:04The characteristic is
37:06Unique lyrics that fit well with music
37:22In fact, Mr. Kuwata
37:24How do you work on lyrics?
37:30In the old days, lyrics
37:32I liked Western music
37:35Melody and sound
37:39For example, the Beatles
37:41I wanna hold your hand
37:44When I heard it when I was in the third grade of elementary school
37:46What is this?
37:48So I became an adult and made my debut
37:52So what we want to do is
37:54Melody, shout and sound
37:59To be honest, I don't care
38:03In my early 20s
38:05Everything was good
38:07But wait a minute
38:09After debuting for a while
38:11Fans say that the lyrics were good
38:15I didn't stick to it
38:19I was very impressed with the lyrics
38:21I don't mean that
38:23Also, our members
38:25When I was making the album Kamakura
38:28Hiroshi Matsuzawa and Yuko Hara
38:31I saw the lyrics
38:33It's good
38:35There was a time when I looked at the paper and said
38:38I'm looking at the lyrics
38:41I thought about it again
38:44It was around 30
38:46From there, no matter what the melody is
38:49If the lyrics are messed up
38:51I realized that it would be a different way of conveying
38:57This year
38:59With us, the members, the audience and the staff
39:04In various ways
39:06The lyrics are distributed in various ways
39:10I feel grateful
39:12So I wrote it carefully
39:18What about A1?
39:21The biggest charm of Southern All Stars
39:24I think it's in the songwriting that utilizes the sound and rhythm of Japanese to the fullest
39:30Keisuke Kuwata's sense of writing and composing
39:33The skill of playing with words
39:35The depth of the feeling of the lyrics
39:37The musicality that transcends the genre
39:40In Japanese music history
39:42It has the only sense of existence
39:46It's dangerous
39:49It's dangerous
39:51What should I do?
39:53The sound of Japanese
39:55Is there anything you value in Japanese?
39:59The sound of Japanese?
40:01I'm the one who doesn't value Japanese
40:05I don't know what to say
40:07I've been told for a long time
40:09It's okay
40:11I started music because I liked Western music
40:18To incorporate Japanese into it
40:22There's a little bit of a distorted part
40:26The flow of Western music
40:29Like biezon
40:31Western music-like notes
40:34For the resonance of words
40:36It's hard to find in Japanese
40:39At that time
40:41This time too
40:42In the song Sakura Hirari
40:44In the four-letter word
40:46I found the word Ryuan Kame
40:50Words to someone's future
40:53I want you to convey it well
40:57Shaking
40:59Unforgettable
41:01Memories
41:09Ryuan Kame
41:15Words written in kanji are stiff
41:19The flow is good
41:22Sometimes I use it
41:27You can put Japanese on it like this
41:30Because Mr. Kuwata was there
41:33After that, the juniors
41:35If you write it like that
41:37I can put it on
41:40It's like the first page of a textbook
41:44So the words of love
41:47That's right
41:50This is true
42:09I can't see
42:39Suwa
42:41Toa
42:43Because there is Toa
42:45Because Toa comes here
42:47I wonder if I should use the word Toa
42:49That's right
42:51Because there are few Japanese words
42:55Because Toa ends there
42:58If you don't include the meaning in other places
43:02It will be like the same
43:04That's why I included the lyrics of space and life
43:10Speaking of Motoha, I wanted to do Toa
43:13Suwa
43:15I wanted to do Toa
43:17I want to pronounce something like Western music
43:22In the first place
43:24Toa
43:26Suwa
43:28Toa
43:30Suwa
43:32Toa
43:34Mr. Kuwata is singing like this
43:36The words came out
43:38It's a way of saying
43:40It's a long way to drop it as a work
43:44We also have lyrics that come out while singing
43:48While taking the nuance of the pronunciation carefully
43:52I can't make it meaningful
43:55It's a secret between this
43:58Everyone can do it
44:00Everyone can do it, so they can talk lightly and laugh
44:04I think the fear of that person is stepping in here
44:08Make it a world view
44:11It's organized properly
44:13We are already old
44:17When we try to make an original album
44:20I'm a little prepared
44:22It may be the last
44:26This week, it was also broadcast on Terasa TVer
44:29What is looking for?
44:33We don't have weight
44:35We don't have charisma
44:37I think it was really a one-shot
44:39Next week, Keisuke Kuwata talks about the reason for continuing Southern All-Stars
44:45It came out because it was said that it was a pale student band
44:49So after all
44:51We felt that we couldn't be a band
44:55Amanpi's G-spot
44:57The reaction was amazing at that time