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00:00French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrault began a two-day visit to China on Thursday,
00:05meeting in Beijing with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi and also with Premier Li Chang.
00:10The trade wars launched by Donald Trump have forced European countries such as France to
00:14rethink their previous move away from China.
00:18But differences between the West and China over the war in Ukraine also hung over the
00:22visit, with the Chinese foreign minister urging Western countries to choose multilateralism
00:27over unilateralism.
00:29Barrault heads to Shanghai on Friday, where he will meet with local officials and business
00:33leaders.
00:34Here is the foreign minister speaking.
00:39The number and intensity of conflicts, as well as the weakening of the multilateral
00:43institutions, threaten global stability.
00:47We agree that our two countries, as permanent members of the Security Council, have a special
00:52responsibility to work together to find solutions to the international community.
00:58By overcoming the divisions that pit Western countries against others, or develop countries
01:03against developing countries.
01:08And for more on this, I can welcome Jean-François de Melio, who is an economist and professor
01:12at Paris-Dauphine University and the Public School of International Affairs in Paris,
01:17and also the president of the Asia Centre think tank.
01:19Good morning, Mr de Melio, and thank you very much for joining us.
01:22Can I start asking you, what is at stake in this visit by Jean-Noël Barrault to Beijing?
01:27Well, the French-China relation has been through quite a few hiccups during 2024.
01:36You remember Xi Jinping took a visit to France last year, and that was a very short visit
01:42and that was almost under the radar.
01:45So the idea is to rejuvenate somewhat this relationship based on two main axles.
01:54One is the international situation with the Ukraine conflict, and the other one is the
01:59trade situation, which is in shambles after the arrival of Trump, of course.
02:04But it was, of course, quite shaky between France, the European Union and China because
02:10of electric vehicles.
02:12Now, France has been somewhat reluctant to throw everything in with the Western move,
02:19the decoupling away from China, but it has made moves in that direction.
02:23But does it feel now with Trump's trade wars that it is between two stools, so to speak?
02:28Well, the positioning is very difficult, and that will be a positioning, cherry-picking
02:34in some ways, which sectors and which questions we should address first, and which priority
02:41give to the talks between Jean-Noël Barrault, for this instance, and his peers in China.
02:50We cannot agree on everything, but there is obviously a need to reinstate some form
02:58of dialogue, and that's the objective.
03:01And who do you think is the more eager party here?
03:04Which side stands to gain more?
03:06Well, that's a very good question, and very often it's forgotten in the West that China
03:13needs the West, so to speak, or at least Europe, much more than the other way around.
03:20We feel like we need China because China sends us cheap products or quality products
03:29now.
03:30But the question is, when you are a big exporter nation, you need the important nation much
03:37more than the other way around.
03:39And that's something that the visit might say very strongly.
03:45China is currently slowing down, its economy is not in the best shape ever, and it's still
03:53very dependent on exports.
03:56China hit a record number last year with $800 billion equivalent of trade surplus, and that
04:05was made partly with Europe.
04:08So if Europe bargains and negotiates a few important points with China, I think we could
04:16be a winner.
04:17On the matter of Ukraine, of course China says it's neutral in this conflict, but it's
04:22very much supporting Russia, materially supporting indeed.
04:27Is there any likelihood of getting any concessions from Beijing on Ukraine, or do we really just
04:32have to settle for the status quo in the expectation that Beijing will at least support a peace
04:37settlement?
04:38Well, currently there is supposedly a peace process in which neither France nor China
04:48nor Ukraine, for some matter, is involved.
04:52France has big ambitions in the international scene, China also has.
04:59Both are members of the Security Council, of course.
05:03Both are nuclear nations, and the nuclear question was very important in the relation
05:10between Russia and China.
05:11It's mentioned that possibly China influenced or had some leverage on Russia in the usage
05:21of potential nuclear weapons in the Ukraine conflict.
05:25So theoretically, France and China have a common interest in participating in the peace
05:33negotiating.
05:34Having said that, it's obvious that from the very beginning China has been on Russia's
05:39side.
05:40So there is a long way to get the two nations closer together.
05:46Thank you very much for that, Jean-Francois D'Amelio of the Asia Centre.