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00:00Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has been meeting with President Emmanuel Macron
00:04here in Paris this Wednesday.
00:06His visit comes a day ahead of a peace and security meeting for Ukraine on Thursday,
00:11which will gather leaders from the so-called Coalition of the Willing, a group of countries
00:16considering deploying peacekeeping troops to Ukraine in the case of a ceasefire.
00:20Earlier this evening, Zelensky also sat down with journalists to answer questions.
00:25He thanked the U.S. for the aid they'd given but added that U.S. officials often echo Russian
00:29narratives.
00:30He also said Moscow is not ready to end the war.
00:33Take a listen.
00:37I can't be ungrateful to the United States for everything they've done for us, and I
00:41believe that they are very often, unfortunately, under the influence of Russian narratives.
00:49We can't agree to these narratives, but we are fighting for ourselves and we will continue
00:55to fight these narratives.
00:57We have no other choice.
00:59We are fighting for our independence and for our existence.
01:02Well, to break that down for us, let's bring in Orysia Lutsevich, the deputy director of
01:08the Russia and Eurasia program at Chatham House.
01:10It's a pleasure to have you with us on the program today.
01:13First of all, what are your key takeaways from what we heard there from Zelensky earlier
01:17this evening?
01:19Any war is also a war for the narrative, and Zelensky, as a former actor, perfectly understands
01:25that.
01:26He has been successful in marshalling the global support for Ukraine.
01:30Let's remember the two nations were providing all kinds of military assistance to Ukraine
01:36in the group called Rammstein, and tomorrow there will be 37 of those meeting in the coalition
01:41of the willing.
01:42And he's trying to push back against Trump's interpretation of war, where he believes by
01:49actually accusing Ukraine of not wanting peace or calling Zelensky a dictator and not
01:55putting any pressure on Russia will not lead to Trump's outcome of a ceasefire.
02:01So it's important that Ukraine has a center stage.
02:04And actually, we all revert back to the understanding of this as unprovoked illegal aggression.
02:10Now, when it comes to this so-called coalition of the willing, is the idea of putting boots
02:16on the ground in Ukraine what's still dividing Europe?
02:21I think the big question that is for Europe to answer is what kind of, first of all, ceasefire,
02:28if there will be a ceasefire set up.
02:31It is very difficult to plan a concrete military operation without understanding the situation
02:37on the ground.
02:39We are seeing first indications of what it may look like if it is a ceasefire in the
02:45Black Sea, and you need a special force to monitor that ceasefire and ensure security
02:50of trade corridors.
02:52That may require a coalition of the countries that are the Black Sea countries, and they
02:55have powerful navies.
02:57If it's a ceasefire on the energy infrastructure, it also means that Ukraine needs more air
03:05defense, meanwhile, to shore up its nuclear power stations.
03:09So Europe has to seriously start planning for all these eventualities, because there
03:13are many pathways that this war may still take.
03:16Now, Zelensky says it's too early to discuss roles of future European forces in Ukraine.
03:22Is this even a remote possibility, in your opinion?
03:27I think, as I've described, there are various options of how Europe, this coalition of the
03:32willing, can reinforce Ukraine's defenses.
03:36What many military experts agree is that actually air defense, the joint air shield or sky shield
03:43that would protect Ukrainian nuclear, for example, civilian infrastructure, and Ukraine
03:48has more than five nuclear power stations to protect, would create a safety zone for
03:54business, for people to return, and for economy to work.
03:58But also, I think it's important that we keep the focus on the Black Sea, because it's an
04:02important trade route, and we want to ensure that Russia doesn't remilitarize Crimea and
04:08threaten further the ports of Odessa, Poltava, and other areas.
04:13So there's a variety of options, including at some stage possible deployment on the ground.
04:19Now, President Emmanuel Macron has said today that Russia must accept a 30-day ceasefire
04:25offered by Ukraine without preconditions.
04:28But what happens if Moscow simply does not accept this proposal?
04:33What happens is that the war will continue the way it's been now lasting for three and
04:37a half years.
04:38And I think what is important is that coalition of the willing tries to pass the message to
04:43White House and to Trump personally that U.S. should also not agree on some of these outrageous
04:49conditions that Kremlin is putting on the table, such as, for example, demilitarization
04:55of Ukraine or premature elections right after the ceasefire that will destabilize Ukraine,
05:03that will allow Putin to play this internal game of politics in Ukraine.
05:09And such rushed election would jeopardize, actually, democratic unity inside Ukraine.
05:14Marusia Lutsevich from Chatham House, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with
05:18us today on the program.