On this explosive episode of Going Underground, Afshin Rattansi confronts Dr. Dan Diker, President of the Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs, over Israel’s ongoing war in Gaza 🇵🇸.
Rattansi raises powerful questions about the alleged genocide in Gaza, Israel’s isolation on the world stage, and the risk of a broader war with Iran 🌍⚠️.
From Saudi Arabia’s accusations to growing internal unrest in Israel, this is a hard-hitting interview you won’t want to miss 🔥🗣️.
#AfshinRattansi #GoingUnderground #IsraelGaza #DanDiker #JerusalemCenter #GazaWar #MiddleEastCrisis #WarOnGaza #GenocideDebate #IsraelIran #SaudiArabia #MohammedBinSalman #IsraelPolitics #InternationalLaw #WarCrimes #GlobalIsolation #HamasConflict #MediaChallenge #HeatedDebate #TruthToPower
Rattansi raises powerful questions about the alleged genocide in Gaza, Israel’s isolation on the world stage, and the risk of a broader war with Iran 🌍⚠️.
From Saudi Arabia’s accusations to growing internal unrest in Israel, this is a hard-hitting interview you won’t want to miss 🔥🗣️.
#AfshinRattansi #GoingUnderground #IsraelGaza #DanDiker #JerusalemCenter #GazaWar #MiddleEastCrisis #WarOnGaza #GenocideDebate #IsraelIran #SaudiArabia #MohammedBinSalman #IsraelPolitics #InternationalLaw #WarCrimes #GlobalIsolation #HamasConflict #MediaChallenge #HeatedDebate #TruthToPower
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NewsTranscript
00:00.
00:30.
01:00I'm Afshin Ritansi. Welcome to Going Underground, broadcasting all around the world, from the heart of the Middle East and the UAE.
01:17What a week it's been for the military-industrial complex between nuclear powers, India and Pakistan, Israel and Gaza and Yemen, the US and Iran, Russia and Ukraine.
01:25We're moving further and further away from when freedom fighter Nelson Mandela said, let there be peace for all, let there be work, bread, water and salt for all.
01:33It's 31 years since Nelson Mandela's inauguration as president of South Africa after he saw violence as the only means to end an apartheid system backed by Britain, the USA and Israel.
01:44Mandela visited here in Dubai and I got to interview him here.
01:47But next week, it'll be the turn of Donald Trump, his visit to this region, coinciding with Nakba Day, commemorating the 1948 ethnic cleansing of historic Palestine.
01:57Joining me now from Jerusalem is the president of the Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs.
02:02He's also the co-host of the podcast Our Middle East, an insider's view and former secretary general of the World Jewish Congress, Dr. Dan Dyker.
02:12Pleasure to be with you. Option.
02:13Dan, it's been five years. Not much has happened in those five years, clearly.
02:18No, a lot has happened. And of course, just in the past week, if people are watching this, we don't know what's happening between India and Pakistan,
02:25whether that's going to be even worse than it has been in the mid portion of this week.
02:31And of course, the world has seen the global south, certainly the celebrations in Moscow of the 80th anniversary of the victory of the Nazis.
02:38But I think the main question, Dan, first off, is what do you make of Trump avoiding Israel next week?
02:44He's coming here to Dubai. He's not going to Israel.
02:47And that's just after Trump made a deal with Ansar Allah, the Houthis of Yemen.
02:53Here's a Japanese paper saying Donald Trump said the U.S. would stop its bombing campaign against Houthi rebels in Yemen in response to assurances from the Iranian-backed group that it would halt attacks on ships.
03:04Well, first of all, Afshin, great to be with you. My first question to you is, why do you believe what you read?
03:11Don't believe what you read, Afshin. I mean, you more than anyone else should know that.
03:14We have to come above ground. We have to come above ground and smell the air and be very clear about what we're seeing.
03:21If I were Donald J. Trump, I wouldn't visit Israel either. You know why?
03:26Why? Because Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is the only foreign leader to have visited the White House within weeks of one another.
03:34And clearly, Donald J. Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu are very, very strong allies, and they've discussed everything they need to discuss.
03:42Right now, President Trump hasn't signed a deal with Sanaa, but clearly he has put the Houthis on notice.
03:51Sorry to interrupt there, but I mean, you know, you say they don't need to talk, but were you shocked when you heard that in an off-the-cuff statement during a press conference with Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney?
04:03Absolutely nothing shocks me when it comes from Donald J. Trump.
04:07President Trump speaks Middle East, and that means he keeps people on their heels, and he is an economic warrior, he's a political warrior, and he right now is pursuing a vision of stability, security, and perhaps prosperity for the Middle East that really is rooted in major power projection by the United States, short of war.
04:35And I think that the damage that Israel did to the Iranian regime-backed Houthis by hitting their airport following this massive series of barrages by the Iran-backed Houthis on Israel taught the Houthis enough of a lesson that Donald Trump wants to go and speak with them.
04:56I don't know whether his statement that they don't want to fight anymore, how much that holds water.
05:01They're far away from an agreement, but Trump is definitely weighing his options and seeking to stabilize a region that will not be able to be stable unless the Iranian nuclear program and the Iranian regime are eliminated.
05:17You sound like Trump's new national security advisor.
05:21I don't know whether you're applying for the job.
05:23But, of course, the Israeli retaliation for the successful destruction or what, a huge hole in the ground in your Ben-Gurion airport, which is a military target, arguably, because military planes in Israel do land there.
05:38No, they don't. No, that is our national airport, in fact, option, if truth be told, that was a major attack against the sovereignty of the state of Israel.
05:50And really, I think if either you or I were military pilots or chiefs of staff, we would launch a massive attack against the Houthis.
05:59The Houthis are disrupting international travel.
06:01Well, people can look up where the military planes have landed at Ben-Gurion, but whatever the case is, the Saudi UAE-backed titular foreign minister of Yemen, anti-Ansar Allah, anti-Houthis, said,
06:14what is Israel doing blowing up a civilian airport in Sana'a where all the aid comes from?
06:20That's nothing to do with Houthi, this or Houthi that.
06:23That airport was built over generations, and Israel has, so you united all the forces of Yemen with the Houthi and Ansar Allah movement by bombing that airport.
06:37Well, I think differently.
06:38I think the fact that, first of all, the Iranian regime sends all of its, sends its weaponry and its ammunition through the airport, gets to the Houthis.
06:47The Houthis are going to be, are going to pay a big price.
06:50And I can tell you, coming out of Jerusalem, that the, that the state of Israel will not tolerate these ongoing, unprovoked assaults against its sovereignty and against its citizens from the Houthis or from the Iranian regime.
07:05So if I were, if I were in the Iranian regime right now, I would be very, very nervous.
07:11I'll get to Iran in a moment.
07:13Iran is not, you know, I don't, you're treating the Yemenis as if, as if Britain is just a US-backed state, and Britain doesn't have sovereignty, arguably.
07:25I mean, you could talk about the fact that the Houthis are going to suffer and all of this kind of thing.
07:31How long is this war on Gaza now?
07:3319 months, 20 months?
07:35Hamas has no air force?
07:35No, the question is.
07:36No artillery, no tanks.
07:38Israel has failed to, actually, Israel has ended up increasing the numbers in Hamas, whereas Yemen has hypersonic missile systems that haven't been, that are not Iranian, that can hit Ben Gurion Airport and bypass the THAAD system and your so-called Iron Dome.
07:57I mean, clearly, there's no way Israel is going to beat Yemen.
08:01No one ever has done.
08:03So why does Israel still speak like this, as if it's going to beat Hamas and beat Yemen, when it's clearly never going to beat Hamas if it hasn't beaten it in 20 months, is it?
08:14Well, actually, that's not accurate.
08:16The United, the former administration under President Joe Biden placed constraints on Israel that prevented Israel from winning the war early on.
08:25But let's remember, you can't win a war against a guerrilla movement.
08:30They have no artillery.
08:31They have no planes.
08:32You're starving the women and children as your only means of trying to do something.
08:36But you can't win against a guerrilla war.
08:38The Americans couldn't win against the Afghans.
08:41The Americans couldn't win against the Vietnamese.
08:43You can't do that, can you?
08:45That's not how warfare works.
08:46How did the United States do against al-Qaeda and ISIS in Iraq and Syria?
08:51You don't find them there anymore because the United States, under David Petraeus, beat them.
08:55Israel will destroy the Hamas.
08:57I'm sorry you mentioned ISIS in Syria because there are pictures of your Prime Minister Netanyahu with ISIS in the Golan Heights in Syria.
09:05Why did al-Qaeda and ISIS never attack Israel?
09:09I think we know the answer.
09:10Why is Yemen attacking Israel when we share no border with Yemen?
09:13Because Yemen is ideologically driven to our destruction because it submits to the Mahdi and the sense of Shiite radical eschatology.
09:23It may well do.
09:24Dan, it may well believe that, but it's also saying that it has a duty to have solidarity with those being the subject of what they say is genocide.
09:37So, therefore, under international law, it has a duty to attack Israel.
09:41I mean, one doesn't have to agree either way, but that's their position.
09:44Listen, Afshin, if this were genocide in Gaza, Israel would be the worst genocidal enemy in the history of genocide.
09:52Let's parse out the numbers for the viewers.
09:55If there were 50,000 people that the Hamas is responsible for killing because the Hamas is in violation of international law, hiding behind children, hiding in schools, hiding in UN compounds, hiding in hospitals.
10:09They commit double war crimes by shooting at Israeli children from behind Palestinian children.
10:15So if we want to talk about international law, let's talk about Hamas and the gross violation of international law.
10:21The only reason that Israel is in Gaza right now, as you know very well, even though you've been underground for five years, is that the Hamas mass murdered 1,400 children and women.
10:32It's all documented on GoPros.
10:34So you don't even have to ask the question and you don't have to believe the Jews.
10:37You can believe the Hamas themselves.
10:39And the fact that the Hamas kidnapped 251 people, including people from 20 countries, including the country, including the UK and many other and other European countries.
10:52No country in the world would tolerate what the Hamas did on October 7th.
10:59Hamas will be destroyed and Israel will destroy it.
11:02And at the end of the day, you have to pay a price for victory.
11:05You know, as a Brit, that Winston Churchill and the Brits paid a big price, but they bombed Dresden.
11:11How many civilians died in Dresden, Afshin, in 1940?
11:16Oh, come on, you're not as bad as Winston Churchill and the concentration camps of the Boer War.
11:21Look, I mean, obviously, October the 7th was one hell of an operation.
11:24Why does Israel place Israeli Jews right next to the Mossad headquarters, the big fashion Gilot shopping mall near Mossad HQ, where the A200 intelligence agencies are?
11:37Why is Israel deliberately placing Jews next to military facilities so they can be targeted by Yemen, by Hamas missiles potentially, less so by Hezbollah ones, because one has to admit that Israel's been successful against Hezbollah.
11:52Why is Israel putting Jews at risk?
11:54That's not the question.
11:56The question is why the question is, why is Hamas ensconcing itself in hospitals, UN compounds, residential buildings?
12:06Yeah, but that's what I'm asking you.
12:07Why are they?
12:08Why are you?
12:09Is Israel the only free country, as you know, as you know.
12:13It's the worst country to be a Jew in.
12:16You know that.
12:17Ehud Olmuth.
12:18What's that?
12:18The former Israeli prime minister said Israel is closer to a civil war than ever before.
12:22You've just explained the Hamas attack of October the 7th, which killed more Jews, you maintain, than any time since the Holocaust.
12:33So what we're talking about is Israel is a dangerous place for Jews.
12:37It's a dangerous place for Jews.
12:38You admit this.
12:39And it's now close to civil war.
12:41You see the demonstrations in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem from Jews against the genocide.
12:45So is it the end of Israel?
12:49Are we now approaching that?
12:51First of all, it could be the end of Western civilization.
12:54You know, as an Indian Brit, that Britain is in greater danger of imploding because of the penetration of Muslims.
13:06Muslims and those grooming gangs that are raping children across the United Kingdom, which may be one of the reasons why you moved to Dubai, because if that happened in Dubai, they would be executed within 24 hours.
13:21Israel is the only free country.
13:22We'll get back to this.
13:24We'll get back to this.
13:25Dr. Dan Dyker.
13:27You want to talk about genocide?
13:28Dr. Dan Dyker, I'll stop you there.
13:30More from the president of the Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs after this break.
13:50Welcome back to Going Underground.
13:51I'm still here with the president of the Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs, Dr. Dan Dyker.
13:56Dan, in part one, I was asking you whether it was the end of Israel.
14:00You said it's the end of Britain if continued, I don't know, Muslim immigration to Britain was coming through.
14:07I think it's a huge number.
14:09No, the Pakistani grooming gangs that are raping your children, which is in the news in the UK every single day.
14:17Israel.
14:17I think this type of deflection is really important here, isn't it?
14:20Because, I mean, that is a separate program.
14:22We could have you on for a whole program about that.
14:25Of course, some might say that actually it's in the indigenous white community that grooming is greater.
14:30We're going to look at the figures on that.
14:33This kind of deflection has been there again and again.
14:36Why will you not respond to whether Israel is close to civil war?
14:39And if a country that continually deflects from what most of the world believes is a genocide, a holocaust committed by Israel,
14:47albeit supported by Britain, the European Union and the United States, we have to get down to nuclear weapons.
14:53What happens to nuclear weapons in Israel if there is a civil war?
14:58Let's talk about genocide option because you've misrepresented.
15:01Leonard, can you just answer the questions as I ask them?
15:04I think we can get on to the genocide because I know you take umbrage at the idea there is genocide ongoing.
15:12But we know Israel is in crisis.
15:16Would you accept that Israel is in crisis?
15:19You yourself say it's not safe to be a Jew in Israel?
15:22It's the safest country in the world to be a Jew because we know who our enemies are.
15:27And if you would just give me the opportunity to answer, I think we could help the audience understand a few things.
15:33Number one, most Jews are leaving, I should just say, from Israel.
15:37But go ahead.
15:38You've got mass, you've got, do you not have mass immigration out, immigration from Israel?
15:46We have mass immigration from countries, from countries in Europe because people can't go out and get a cup of coffee without being attacked.
15:52Just ask the Jews of Amsterdam that were hunted.
15:5583,000 left in 2024.
15:5784, do they not count as Jews?
16:00Do they not count as Jews anymore to you?
16:02Because I've heard you say that Jews who are not in Israel have no sovereignty.
16:08So are you anti-Semitic?
16:10That's a ridiculous statement.
16:12Do you understand what sovereignty means?
16:14Sovereignty means, being sovereign means having, being part of the nation state of the Jewish people.
16:21Being a Jew in the diaspora is being a Jew that is not yet sovereign because they haven't moved to Israel.
16:26That's the meaning of sovereignty.
16:29Israel is the strong horse in the Middle East often.
16:31Do you know what it is in Arabic?
16:33Al-Faras al-Athil.
16:35That is the strong horse.
16:36You have nuclear weapons.
16:38What's that?
16:39You have nuclear weapons.
16:41No one is doubting how strong Israel is.
16:44Okay, that's wonderful.
16:45So that's why the Arab world, that's why the Arab world is partnering with Israel because Israel is the strong horse.
16:50And today, President Trump is the strong horse in the Middle East, and everyone knows that the weak horse in the Middle East is Iran, and it's death cult proxies, Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Houthis.
17:01And therefore, the Iranian regime is teetering, they are scared, and that's why they're engaging in these negotiations, which are a real problem, because anybody who knows the Iranian regime, they know that they're very sophisticated carpet weavers and chess players, and they are facing American negotiators who are not well versed in Iran.
17:24It's safer to be a Jew in Iran, is it not?
17:27There are a hundred synagogues in Iran right now.
17:30They don't have any gods.
17:31They have no gods at the gates of the synagogues in Iran.
17:34Your synagogues have to be protected by the full might of the British European Union and American arms to protect the lives of Jews.
17:42But there are intelligence agents arresting Jews in Iran for fraud.
17:46I lived in Iran for you.
17:48Anti-Semitism is a punishable crime in Iran.
17:52And Jews hold high positions in all aspects, actually in the media in Iran.
17:57You know that's not true.
17:59So I suppose what I should ask you now is, why don't you like Steve Witkoff, Donald Trump's envoy?
18:06Oh, he's a great guy.
18:08No, look, Steve Witkoff's a great guy.
18:11He's been doing a great job.
18:12As somebody who came from the real estate industry, he didn't come from the foreign policy community.
18:18He has his hands full on three different files.
18:23He's got the Russia-Ukraine file.
18:24He's got the Gaza file.
18:26Now he's got the Iranian file.
18:28I mean, he's really working 24 hours, seven days a week.
18:32It's that the issue is that...
18:36He doesn't want a war with Iran like you do.
18:38Well, I think it's Iran that wants a war.
18:40It's Iran.
18:41Do you remember?
18:42Are you old enough to remember 1979?
18:44Two statements option.
18:45Remember this, death to America, death to Israel.
18:50Those statements have been made since 1979.
18:54And if I were you, I would believe the Ayatollah Khomeini and Khomeini because the IRGC...
19:01You know perfectly well comments like this are just...
19:04Somewhat I can quote Netanyahu from much more recently about Amalek and the genocide of the Arab world.
19:11I don't think that gets us anywhere.
19:12But you say you like Witkoff.
19:13Witkoff has clearly been central to the negotiations with Ansar Allah, central to negotiations with Hamas.
19:22Trump negotiators were there talking with Hamas.
19:25Is that why you tweeted, would we allow journalists to perform brain surgery?
19:29I noticed you tweeting Douglas Murray there, who was criticizing Witkoff.
19:33Isn't it clear that the firing of Chris Waltz, Mike Waltz, the national security advisor, although...
19:41Mike Waltz, Mike Waltz.
19:42I think you'd consider he was fired?
19:44Because I don't think you think much of the United Nations.
19:46You think about as much as Donald Trump does of the UN.
19:49So an appointment as ambassador to the UN isn't a promotion.
19:53Option.
19:54Listen to me very well.
19:55Anybody that has half a brain in his head knows that the UN today has become a PR agency for the Hamas.
20:03And they have been a PR agency for the PLO since 1970, 1971.
20:09And therefore, from our point of view, the UN should be put on trial.
20:13And everyone from Secretary Guterres to Albanese should be held to account for their bloodthirsty anti-Semitic comments.
20:24I don't think it's necessarily anti-Semitism, but a lot of the world agrees with you on that.
20:28You have to admit, even pro-Palestine, pro-Iran people probably agree with you on that.
20:33But my question really is about how you think the locus of influence is working within this Trump administration.
20:41And whether you think Wyckoff going to become U.S. ambassador to the UN, rather than national security advisor, and the influence of Wyckoff, Tulsi Gabbard, and so on, means that Israel is out of the picture.
20:56That Trump might have visited Israel next week, actually, if he was listening to people like Stephen Miller more.
21:05Stephen Miller is still there, of course, as an advisor.
21:07But listening to people like Walt, and this signals the fact that Trump, when he sees MBS, when he sees MBZ here in the UAE, is going to be told, look, you've got to stop this.
21:19We need a ceasefire.
21:21And Israel must not be allowed to get its wish for a war in Iran, which will be your legacy as president of the United States.
21:29Well, first of all, I think President Trump's legacy in the United States is a man that brought the world the most consequential regional peace deal in the history of the modern Middle East.
21:40That's called the Abraham Accords.
21:42And, in fact, if you want to talk about who wants a war with Iran, just talk about the Arab-Sunni establishment for whom the Iranians and their terror practices...
21:51I can just tell you, I'm speaking to you from Dubai, the UAE does not want a war with Iran.
21:57Why does...
21:58Well, they certainly don't want...
21:58Do you think Israel is not getting its way?
22:00What does it feel like there in Jerusalem?
22:03You've got huge opposition.
22:05As I said, civil war, perhaps, in your country, in Israel.
22:09Simultaneously, Trump is talking to MBS, to MBZ.
22:12It's clear from what MBS has said, backing the Arab League statements on Gaza, recognizing it as a genocide.
22:19What does it feel like in Israel?
22:22You never...
22:23I know you like MBS of Saudi Arabia, and yet you never quote him when MBS says that what you are doing is a genocide.
22:31Well, first of all, MBS is not saying that what's happening is a genocide.
22:34Yes, he has.
22:35When he's talking about Hamas...
22:36He has.
22:36On the record, MBS has called what you're doing a genocide.
22:41You know, it would be...
22:42This is the...
22:43It would be the worst genocide in the history of war crimes option, because you've got 2.1 million...
22:482.1 million people...
22:50Sorry, sorry, let's not get into what the genocide was.
22:52I'm talking about MBS.
22:54No, no, you're accused...
22:55Don't get into this genocide...
22:57No, no, no, I'm saying MBS, who Trump is visiting in the next few days, calls it a genocide.
23:03You want some kind of alliance with Saudi Arabia.
23:08It's not going to happen, is it?
23:09Because of what you've been doing in Gaza.
23:12So, in which case, how is Israel going to...
23:15How is Israel, how is your group, how is your ex-group, the World Jewish Congress, going
23:20to cope with this new era in which most of the world is against Israel?
23:25They believe it's a genocide.
23:26They call it a holocaust all around the world.
23:29You disagree with that, of course, and it's your right to disagree with that statement.
23:33Total, you are becoming a Hamas...
23:36I'm sorry to say...
23:37No, no, I'm not saying this.
23:39I'm asking you, how is Israel coping with this mentally as a nation, being so isolated
23:45as a nation in the world?
23:47We're so isolated that I can tell you personally that I've visited five Arab countries in Europe
23:54who are begging us to be their partners in a new Middle East and bringing them to Washington.
24:00Israel is the strong horse in the Middle East.
24:03Israel is united.
24:05You can look at the polling numbers that we will be defeating Hamas and we already destroyed
24:09his vote.
24:10Most Americans have an unfavorable opinion of Israel, according to the latest Pew Research
24:16poll.
24:17I mean, I think the main thing here is about Iran, actually.
24:20It's complete propaganda.
24:20When is Israel going to disarm its nuclear weapons so that both Israel and Iran can have
24:27nuclear inspections under the Non-Proliferation Treaty?
24:32First of all, the only question here is when Iran's nuclear program will be destroyed
24:38because its messianic commitment to destroy the United States and destroy Israel in the
24:43West is still there.
24:44But you know I'm talking about Israel's nuclear weapons.
24:47Regime is on borrowed time.
24:50I think you should be asking when is the United Kingdom and when is India and when is the United
24:56States going to give up its nuclear programs when it's faced with the same enemies who are
25:01who are accusing and threatening the exact same nuclear holocaust against the West.
25:07What you're what you're doing is taking the position of the Hamas and the Hezbollah, which
25:12I think is unfortunate because as somebody who was born in democratic India and lived in democratic
25:17Britain, I'm surprised that you would take the position of non-democratic countries.
25:22I wasn't born in India.
25:24I got to ask you.
25:25You were born in Kenya.
25:26You were born in Kenya, which is also a democracy.
25:28I was born in Cambridge, England, actually.
25:30But I mean, you know, I don't know where you were born.
25:33I don't know whether you were born in.
25:35New York.
25:35I'm a New York boy.
25:37I'm a New York boy.
25:37What are you doing in someone else's country is what a lot of people in the world are going
25:40to be asking right now, because they don't believe the mass emigration of those with
25:45the I don't know, melanin doesn't even work, does it, on all these Jews that came in from
25:52from from Europe.
25:54That's why you don't like 33 and me.
25:56Tell me about the Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs and the role of Miriam
26:02Adelson, who is at Trump's inauguration.
26:05Is Sheldon Adelson the funder of your organization?
26:08No, Sheldon, a blessed memory is not the one.
26:11Is Miriam Adelson?
26:13No, and as Dr. Adelson is is actually funding medical is funding medical initiatives and and
26:21doing a lot of her philanthropy in Israel, outside of Israel.
26:26We we actually are and pay attention to this.
26:29The only major policy institute that works Arabs and Jews side by side.
26:35Arab we have Arab Muslim representatives of the JCFA in Washington, D.C., and we work with
26:42we work with Arab Muslims in Israel, outside of Israel, because anybody that really wants
26:49to know what the Middle East is doing and is about should come to the JCPA with our website
26:55jcpa.org. So you can you can really get the best, truthful, independent, professional information
27:02on the Middle East. And that's why we work with people.
27:06We are a Middle Eastern think tank of Jews and Arabs, Muslims, Christians, Druze and others,
27:12because that's what the real Middle East is about.
27:14So when people get beyond the propaganda nonsense of accusing Israel of these fraudulent, these
27:21fraudulent claims and instead of celebrating Israel as the only repository and free state
27:29in the entire Middle East, people will understand what the Middle East is really about.
27:33Dr. Dan Dyker, next time you'll have to come and tell us about about Donald Trump's brother
27:39in law. We're out of time, alas. But Dr. Dan Dyker, thank you.
27:43Dr. Dan Dyker. Thank you, Afshin.
27:46That's it for the show. Our continued condolences to those suffering the impact
27:49of the U.S.-U.K.-EU-armed genocide in Gaza. We'll be back on Monday with the University of
27:54Chicago's multi-award winning co-author of the bestselling book, The Israel Lobby and U.S.
27:58Foreign Policy, Professor John Mersheimer. Until then, keep in touch via all our social media
28:01if it's not censored in your country and head to our channel, Going Underground TV on Rumble.com
28:05to watch new and old episodes of Going Underground. See you Monday.
28:13Bye.
28:14Bye.
28:15Bye.
28:16Bye.
28:18Bye.
28:43Bye.