During a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing prior to the congressional recess Sen. Roger Wicker (R-MS) questioned Colby Jenkins, who performs the duties of Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low Intensity Conflict, about coordination among U.S. 'irregular warfare’ entities.
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00:00Ignatius Sask, Chairman, Senator Wicker.
00:03Well, thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Senator Kelly, as you leave,
00:08because I'm going to follow up on the very important lines of questioning that you pursued.
00:14I was planning on asking about what extra things your command has been required to do
00:22for less buying power, but let's talk about the gray zone and follow up, if we can, on that.
00:33Do you find that there's not enough coordination in the irregular warfare field?
00:49And would you recommend any changes in the way our Defense Department is organized
00:58with regard to no one having a particular domain over that particular issue
01:08and coordinating it across the various commands?
01:13Well, thank you for pointing that out.
01:14Certainly over the last 20 years, plus, we've seen our counterterrorism muscle
01:18be exercised tremendously, and our irregular warfare muscle, not so much.
01:22But nowadays, we are certainly exercising that muscle and meeting and deterring,
01:26as the Senator alluded, China, where they are and where they're trying to be.
01:31Solik itself.
01:32Okay.
01:33Tell us, and those listening, what sort of things specifically,
01:40some examples of what the Chinese are doing?
01:42Well, Senator, certainly we can get into more details in the closed session,
01:46but it's safe to say where areas where you would not think China is, they are.
01:52They're trying to be there, not only in the South China Sea, the first island chain,
01:56but in the Southern Hemisphere.
01:57And we have specific examples that we can point to to show where we have met,
02:02deterred, and even ejected their influence from certain areas.
02:06And so it's incumbent upon us to not only just be counterterrorist experts,
02:09but also a regular warfare specialist.
02:11You can talk about the economic warfare in this hearing, can you not?
02:17For sure, yes, sir.
02:18And that's, as you alluded to, it's in China,
02:21it's a whole of government approach when it comes to economic warfare.
02:25And that's what General Fenton's actually starting a new program
02:28to bring that together to harness not only attention amongst our economic machines
02:33here in the United States, but to show them where they could draw their power
02:37to help our nation as well.
02:38Okay, so are we organized sufficiently in this area,
02:44or should one office, one person, be in charge of coordinating this for either of you?
02:50In the regular warfare arena, we are sufficiently organized within SOLIC.
02:55We have a department, we have a team, an actual DASD,
02:58Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense,
03:00that has a regular warfare within its charter that it's responsible for
03:05and leads through the department in terms of helping combatant commands draw campaign plans
03:11that involve irregular warfare and educating throughout the joint force
03:15in terms of irregular warfare is not just a soft opportunity,
03:20it's a whole of Department of Defense opportunity.
03:23Senator, I would add, I think for now, sufficiently organized,
03:29you know, as we talk and work through this, it's through Secretary Jenkins on their policy side.
03:35And I think for SOCOM, it's unequivocal that we do irregular warfare,
03:40and our components and our operational elements know it.
03:43They go back to the SOCOM headquarters or geographic combatant commanders.
03:47What I would offer is, I think it's always worth re-looking
03:51because of the pace of the world and the way the world's changing in all type of levels.
03:55And I talk about modernizing authorities.
03:58And I think it's always good to keep an eye on things so we're not complacent,
04:02or even as we think about technology, how fast it's moved,
04:06my sense is there's certainly a need to re-look authorities
04:08to make sure that they have not stayed stagnant
04:12or they have moved as fast as we need them.
04:14Okay, well, you know, we, I might want to have a conversation,
04:20an ongoing conversation with you, General,
04:23and for as long as I can, Mr. Jenkins,
04:27about how we could perhaps make the coordination better in this area.
04:35We're intruding on the time, Madam Chair,
04:39but let me just say, there's been a 35% increase from the COCOMs
04:45for your capabilities in the last three years.
04:49Is that right, General?
04:50That's correct, Senator.
04:51And a 170% increase in SOCOM crisis response missions,
04:59including but not limited to hostage rescues.
05:03Yes, sir.
05:03In fact, we just updated the numbers after we got a chance to see you,
05:07and I think today I reported 200% in three and a half years.
05:10Okay.
05:11All right.
05:11So instead of 170%,
05:13and then manpower cuts of nearly 5,000 personnel in recent years,
05:17how have those come about?
05:21Well, Senator, a couple things.
05:23I think through the lens of the defense planning scenario
05:28and the work that the service has to do along with the department
05:31against any potential scenario,
05:34and I'll leave at that because we can talk more in a classified session,
05:38my sense is that services took a look at the lens that they were given
05:42through those scenarios and came away with we don't need X number of SOF.
05:48And over time, my sense is that that continued certainly to gain traction
05:54in the department, and as a result, I think you're very aware of a point last year
05:59where Secretary of Defense Austin made a decision to reduce SOF by 3,000 people.
06:05Well, have these crisis response requests gone unanswered?
06:11Senator, that does.
06:12Everything you're facing with the lack of funding and the lack of purchasing power
06:15and cuts of 5,000.
06:17As I said in my opening statement,
06:19crisis response is the one place that I'm taking no risk.
06:23So we put everything we have against the crisis response today
06:25because our sense is that is a sacred obligation,
06:28presidentially directed, SEC-DF directed.
06:30We cannot fail.
06:32And so the other things that you might put behind those crisis response things
06:38might be, for example.
06:41Senator, I feel like we are absolutely taking risks in two places,
06:45modernization and deterrence.
06:48Deterrence would be that mission that we are taking risk in.
06:52And we're taking risk because, in my sense, we are unable to answer the combatant commander's requirements
06:57to the level that they have requested and certainly need.
07:02And when I look at that, that is risk to them and certainly risk to your soft forces
07:07and that we're bringing the value that we could be bringing to the combatant commands
07:11in preventing great power conflict and certainly preparing for it.
07:16One other thing, Madam Chair.
07:17I just hope the General understands the committee's position on both sides of the dais
07:24that we need to hear fully from you on your unfunded requirements.
07:31Tell us what you need.
07:32Be honest about it.
07:34And we'll try to get it for you.
07:37But we have found that some places within our defense establishment,
07:43they're reluctant to actually be honest with us about all the requirements that remain unfunded.
07:50And thank you for your indulgence, Madam Chair.
07:51Thank you, Chairman.
07:52You got my commitment to that, Senator.
07:54Thank you, General Fenton.
07:55Thank you, General Fenton.