Stand-up comedian Kunal Kamra is at the centre of a political storm triggered by his satire on Maharashtra Deputy Chief Minister Eknath Shinde.
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00:00Good evening and welcome, you're watching the NewsTrack, I'm Rahul Kamal.
00:03Is the coalition ruling Maharashtra guilty of hypocrisy?
00:08The likes of Aditya Thackeray, Uddhav Thackeray, Sanjay Rao, keep calling Eknath Shinde a
00:13gaddara traitor, no FIR against them.
00:16An FIR gets registered against comedian Kunal Kamra for saying pretty much the same thing
00:21and something which is a matter of fact.
00:24He did betray the original Shiv Sena to move out on his own.
00:27Eknath explains this hypocrisy and why target the comedian, that's my top focus on the NewsTrack.
00:58Kunal Kamra faces Sena Fury.
01:07FIR, vandalism and political firestorm.
01:17Political joke, no laughing matter.
01:28Insult, intolerance or inconsequential.
01:33That is our big focus on NewsTrack.
01:37Cracking a joke on a politician is no laughing matter.
01:40Stand-up comic Kunal Kamra is at the centre of a storm triggered by his satire on Eknath Shinde.
01:46Kamra's been booked, the venue where he was performing has been vandalised and parts of it demolished.
01:51The Maharashtra Chief Minister has called Kamra an urban naxal,
01:55while the Uddhav Sena, which itself displayed intolerance over cartoons and WhatsApp forwards,
02:00has come out in support of the stand-up comic.
02:06A satirical take on Maharashtra Deputy CM Eknath Shinde has sparked a maha war.
02:13At the centre of it is stand-up comic Kunal Kamra,
02:18who referred to Shinde as a traitor, mocking his beginnings as an auto driver.
02:26The joke infuriated the Shiv Sena, that went on rampage at Mumbai's Habitat studio.
02:40A violent eruption triggered a political face-off,
02:43with Maharashtra Chief Minister branding Kunal Kamra as an urban naxal.
02:56Urban naxals are like left-liberals.
02:59Their only aim is to insult the society,
03:04to insult the institutions of the country,
03:08to make people lose their faith in the institutions of the country,
03:13to give such speeches.
03:16There is no need to leave such people in any situation.
03:22And so, I assure the audience,
03:25that strict action will be taken.
03:28I don't think Kunal Kamra is wrong.
03:31Traiting traitors is not an attack on anyone.
03:34Whoever is a traitor, is a traitor.
03:36It is not possible for a traitor to be free.
03:39This is the truth.
03:41And we openly say that they are traitors.
03:43So where has this freedom come from?
03:47Soon, the Mumbai civic body was at Kunal Kamra's Comic Act venue.
03:52The demolition of the Habitat studio is going over there.
03:55We cannot see this because the studio is inside on the first floor.
03:59So definitely we have to see that,
04:01where this Kunal Kamra whole controversy over the comedy goes,
04:06and where it ends.
04:08The controversy has reignited the debate over free speech and intolerance.
04:13The controversy has reignited the debate over free speech and intolerance.
04:20It's very clear, based on the language that they have used,
04:24that they are not comedians,
04:27but they are paid agents of UBT.
04:31And this, despite the fact that Maharashtra and the country
04:35have repeatedly rejected these parties
04:39for their entitled monarchistic ways.
04:42So these people will never learn.
05:04There is already an FIR against Kunal Kamra,
05:07and the Mahayati government has launched a full probe.
05:11The stand-up comics, call detail records,
05:14and bank account details will be scrutinized.
05:17The state government is also going to investigate
05:20who is behind the satire on Eknath Shinde.
05:24With Hrithvik Bhalekar and Dipesh Tripathi in Mumbai,
05:28Bureau Report, India Today.
05:33Kunal Kamra is doing what comedians do,
05:37cracking a joke, having a laugh, making fun.
05:40Why is Eknath Shinde getting so worked up?
05:44Joining us on the news track from the Shinde Sena,
05:48I have the party's National Spokesperson, Shaina Ensi.
05:51With us for the BJP perspective,
05:54I have National Spokesperson Sanju Verma.
05:56We have Sushma Andharesh,
05:58she's a spokesperson of the Uddhav Balasaheb Thackeray Sena.
06:01And I have Anish Gawande from the NCP of Sharath Pawar.
06:06I want to go across to Shaina Ensi first.
06:08Shaina, Kunal Kamra is cracking a joke.
06:12And the jokes are not just about Eknath Shinde,
06:15they're about all kinds of billionaires,
06:17they're about other politicians.
06:19Nobody else is offended.
06:21He has in some way stated a fact by saying
06:24that Eknath Shinde was a traitor, which he was.
06:26He left one party to set up another.
06:29Why should he have to deal with this FIR?
06:32What's going on under your watch?
06:34Rahul, if you leave a party
06:37which is defunct of its own ideology
06:40of Hindu Ridesh Samrat Adanya Balasaheb Thackeray
06:43and chooses to go with anyone for lust for power
06:46and on your own accord,
06:48you choose to leave with majority of the MLAs,
06:52does that make you a traitor?
06:54Please get real.
06:55There is a distinct line between comedy and vulgarity.
07:00And this is not the first time...
07:02No, but why target him?
07:04He's been called...
07:05Just one second, Shaina.
07:07Eknath Shinde has been called a traitor
07:09by Uddhav Thackeray, Aditya Thackeray, Sanjay Rao.
07:11They're all politicians.
07:12Why pick on a comedian?
07:14Because this comedian is not a comedian.
07:17He's a political activist under the guise
07:20of pretending to be somebody's stooge and puppet,
07:23which he clearly is.
07:25Now look at the sequence of events.
07:27You have two and a half years of respected Eknath Shinde ji
07:31who is an aspirational story,
07:33an auto rickshaw driver who makes it as the chief minister,
07:36is the deputy chief minister.
07:38And there you keep using words like traitor.
07:40Two and a half years,
07:42nobody attacked any activist,
07:44any journalist,
07:45any issue which was raised.
07:47Criticism? Welcome.
07:49But here you are playing to the gallery.
07:52You are the puppet and the stooge
07:54of the Obata Sena and the Congress
07:56and this is not the first time.
07:58Please remember.
07:59No, but you can criticize his comments.
08:01You can say you disagree.
08:03You can take out a dharna.
08:05You can protest.
08:06Why?
08:07Because it's your government in Maharashtra.
08:09You're using the force of the law
08:11against a person who can't defend himself the same way.
08:14He's not your political opponent.
08:16He's cracking a joke.
08:17Absolutely not.
08:19But his so-called joke,
08:21for every action there is bound to be a reaction.
08:23And don't understand,
08:25this is the reaction of the workers
08:27who adore their leader,
08:28who know the kind of service
08:30he has given to the people of Maharashtra.
08:32And there under the garb of freedom of speech,
08:34you try and cross every Lakshman Rekha.
08:37You have not done this in the past.
08:39You have done this hundreds of times.
08:41You call the Supreme Court the supreme joke.
08:44Don't forget his comments about Justice Chandra Tood.
08:46Don't forget his comments on your fellow journalist,
08:49Arnab Goswami.
08:51Don't forget the kind of comments he's made on Banyas.
08:53I mean, by constantly hurting people's sentiment
08:56or kind of pretending to be this great comedian
09:00when you're nothing but a vulgar display
09:03of your own so-called sarcasm,
09:06which doesn't work.
09:08Please understand,
09:09look at the whole track record
09:11of this man in question.
09:13And for all those who are questioning us,
09:16let's not forget,
09:17it was when Uddhav Thackeray was the chief minister
09:19that a journalist was attacked.
09:21It was when he was the chief minister
09:23that ABP was under attack.
09:26How is that a defense?
09:28How is that a defense?
09:29How is that a defense?
09:31Just because Uddhav Thackeray did something which is wrong
09:34doesn't justify you doing something wrong.
09:36I'm only giving you the narrative
09:38and the reference to context.
09:40The reference to context.
09:42And is this a diversionary tactic?
09:45So, well, it could be.
09:47Because he is playing puppet.
09:49He is playing to the gallery.
09:51And he is invading
09:53on what we believe
09:55is the leadership of our party,
09:57which is a large party.
09:59He's a comedian.
10:00He's supposed to play to the gallery.
10:02That's what comedians do.
10:03That's how they get everyone laughing.
10:05Not with vulgarity
10:06under the guise of freedom of expression.
10:08If you consider it vulgarity,
10:11the question is,
10:12do you ignore it?
10:14Do you look the other side
10:15or do you file an FIR?
10:16Anish Gawande.
10:17Now, some of the things that Shaina says,
10:19it's not as if they're the only party who's done this.
10:22Eknath Shinde has retributed now.
10:25Before this,
10:26Udav Thackeray was called bald.
10:28And there was a very strong pushback
10:30at that time as well.
10:31So, this has happened in Maharashtra.
10:33It's not happening for the first time
10:34and Shinde is not new.
10:39No, but Rahul, the challenge is,
10:41unfortunately,
10:42that I think that this is all playing out
10:44like a very, very cruel joke.
10:46You know, the fact that
10:48the Shiv Sena members
10:49were vandalizing Habitat,
10:51which is the venue where this man was performing,
10:53is a joke.
10:54The fact that they were trashing the hotel,
10:56which is the entry point to the venue,
10:58is a joke.
10:59The fact that the BMC today is going
11:01and demolishing part of that venue,
11:03is a joke.
11:10You know, is this the creative economy
11:11that you're going to create?
11:12Last year, the government said
11:13$30 billion creative economy
11:15employs 8% of India's workforce
11:17and this is how you treat the creative economy?
11:19The problem is,
11:20if you don't understand that
11:21freedom of speech is important
11:22for a thriving creative economy,
11:24you're not going to be able to get very far.
11:26As for the other examples, Rahul,
11:28the biggest, biggest difference
11:30is that after these acts happen
11:31by any party workers,
11:33party leaders are expected
11:34to maintain maturity.
11:35But what does the BJP do today?
11:37Nilesh Rane goes and makes a statement saying,
11:42Is this the kind of statement
11:43you expect from an elected leader?
11:45You have others saying
11:46that every action has a reaction.
11:48This is a complete collapse
11:49of law and order
11:50because you're allowing
11:51this hooliganism to continue
11:52and in fact,
11:53supporting it by the state.
11:54Sanju Verma, there are lots of jokes
11:56on Modi ji,
11:57there are other jokes
11:58in Kunal Kamra's act.
12:00Do you support the manner
12:01in which China NC's party
12:03has registered an FIR
12:04against the comedian Kamra?
12:07You know, Rahul,
12:08I'm reminded of that famous
12:09Hindi adage.
12:19You know, let me just say
12:21one thing very categorically.
12:23That, you know,
12:24since constitution
12:25is something that is raked up
12:26every now and then
12:27from the other side,
12:28let me say that
12:30article 19 of the constitution
12:32very categorically says
12:33that free speech
12:34is not absolute
12:36and free speech
12:37is subject to public order,
12:39morality and health,
12:40point number one.
12:41Point number two,
12:42FIR under sections 353-1
12:45and 356-2 of the BNSS
12:48have been filed
12:49not only against Kunal Kamra
12:51but also against people
12:52who vandalize the venue.
12:54You know, so it is wrong
12:55for anyone to assume
12:56that the state is behaving
12:58in a prejudiced manner.
13:00Point number three,
13:01you know, there is a very thin line
13:03between vulgarity and comedy
13:05and I'll tell you what,
13:06I heard that clip
13:07of Kunal Kamra's.
13:09What does he say?
13:10He says,
13:11Ek button damaya jaata tha
13:12aur 9 vote nikalte the.
13:15In a way,
13:16he was trying to give
13:17synonyms to the people.
13:18No, no, he doesn't say that.
13:19He says they've given them
13:209 buttons because of
13:21the number of splits
13:22in the party.
13:23Rahul, can I finish?
13:24No, you must, you must.
13:25Rahul, can I please finish?
13:26Just one second, just one second.
13:27Can I just finish, Rahul?
13:28Why are you so intolerant?
13:29I'm not intolerant.
13:30I'm very tolerant,
13:31as you know I'm very intolerant.
13:32So please let me finish.
13:33Don't heckle me, Rahul.
13:34Can I just finish?
13:36Make your argument.
13:37I don't want an FIR.
13:38Sanjuji, I don't want
13:39an FIR against me,
13:40so please speak,
13:41lest you file an FIR,
13:42but go on.
13:47You guys start getting
13:48so itchy and jittery,
13:49and you know, so...
13:52Anyway.
13:53Let me not get into
13:54the train of adjectives
13:55to describe you.
13:56Let me be very
13:57categorical here.
13:58Let me say one thing.
13:59What I take offense,
14:00particularly, you know,
14:01I don't even mind, you know,
14:02the fact that he said,
14:03Oh, Thane mein rickshaw chalane wale,
14:05abhi aankh mein chashma lagane wale,
14:07chehre par daadi rakhne wale.
14:10All that is kosher.
14:11You know, it's par for the course
14:12when you're doing comedy.
14:13But when you say,
14:15that yeh mantralay kam jaate hain
14:17aur Fadnavis ki godh mein
14:18zyada dikhai dete hain.
14:20When you say that, you know,
14:22you press one button
14:23but you get nine votes.
14:25I think this was not comedy.
14:27This was trying to insinuate
14:29that the assembly election
14:31results of Maharashtra
14:32were not fair.
14:33No, no, I must cut you there, Sanjuji,
14:34because that's not what he says.
14:35In fact, I'll pull out that clip
14:37and put it out,
14:38because that's not what he says.
14:39He says, where there were
14:40earlier fewer parties,
14:41they've now given them
14:42nine buttons.
14:43He doesn't say that there are
14:44nine different results coming out.
14:45That's a distortion.
14:47That's a factual distortion
14:48of what's happening.
14:49I want to quote to you...
14:50You know, Rahul Bruce,
14:51why are you behaving like
14:52Kunal Kamra's ambassador?
14:53No, I'm not behaving like
14:54Kunal Kamra.
14:55Okay, since she says this
14:56again and again,
14:57let me just play that clip once
14:58so that you can hear
14:59what he says.
15:00You're behaving like
15:01his ambassador.
15:02Because I'm no one's ambassador,
15:03least of all Kunal Kamra.
15:04Of course, you're behaving
15:05like one.
15:06No, because you're distorting
15:07facts and I don't appreciate that.
15:08Let's just listen.
15:09You're hearing what Sanju Varma
15:10is saying.
15:11Listen to what Kunal Kamra
15:12said and see whether he's saying
15:13nine votes came out.
15:14He says that you've given
15:15them nine votes,
15:16not nine votes came out.
15:17Listen.
15:37So you heard in that clip
15:38exactly what Kunal Kamra says.
15:40But I just want to
15:41throw this open.
15:42I have a comedian joining me
15:43on this broadcast.
15:44I want to go across to
15:45Jeeveshu Aluwalia.
15:47Now, I heard the
15:52comedy or the large part
15:54of that clip.
15:55The fact is, in several places,
15:58Kunal Kamra is quite
16:00deeply offensive,
16:01particularly when it comes
16:02to the health of a particular
16:04businessman's son.
16:06Some of the stuff that's said
16:07is downright not nice.
16:09Right?
16:10I mean, I have nothing wrong
16:11with calling someone a traitor.
16:13That's just a fact.
16:14He did betray his party
16:15and therefore that's okay.
16:16Now, the question is,
16:17did Kamra go overboard?
16:19There is some level
16:20of angst or frustration
16:22that seems to have crept in
16:23because of the fact that
16:24he's on a particular side
16:25of the political divide.
16:26And it's all coming out.
16:27It's not just humor.
16:28There is a lot of nastiness
16:30that's built up over a while
16:31that's finding voice.
16:36So, hi, Rahul.
16:37Hi, Jeeveshu.
16:38I think there are two things
16:40one has to know.
16:41If you think any comedian
16:43who does any of these jokes
16:45isn't aware of
16:46what will it lead to,
16:48which is in case of an FIR
16:51or such cases of, you know,
16:53vandalism or aggression,
16:56I wouldn't agree there.
16:58I think each one of us
16:59is aware of what will one joke
17:01or one sort of ideology
17:03or one sort of, you know,
17:06experimentation of any factor
17:09on stage would lead to.
17:10Especially when the reach
17:11is via YouTube
17:13wherein nothing is, you know,
17:15subsided.
17:16There is no filter.
17:17So, I don't think so.
17:21So, why do you think he did it?
17:23Why do you think he did it
17:24if he knew the consequences?
17:25Honestly, I'll...
17:26So, this is my very...
17:27See, these are very personal takes.
17:28Any comic who does anything
17:30which is on the threshold
17:31of being a little arrogant
17:33and a little, you know,
17:35turmoil-ish to say the least
17:37is to get publicity.
17:38We sell out shows.
17:40We sell out stands.
17:42We name one person
17:45who has gone through turmoil
17:46who has not made it big after that.
17:49Be it Big Boss,
17:50be it OTT series,
17:52be it advertisements,
17:55be it endorsements.
17:56All of us get it.
17:57All of us.
17:58It's publicity.
17:59It's massive publicity.
18:01But at the same time,
18:03I think I also agree
18:04with the other part
18:05that breaking something
18:06or, you know,
18:07going after somebody's life
18:09or...
18:10But he's already quite famous.
18:12It's not as if this would make him
18:13any more famous than he was.
18:15No, but if he dips down...
18:18Is Amitabh Bachchan famous? Yes.
18:20Is Abhishek Bachchan famous? Yes.
18:21But why do they keep doing
18:22movies after movies?
18:23Because they need to be relevant
18:24after every couple of years.
18:26This is work.
18:27This is business.
18:28I need to run my house.
18:29Why do I do shows?
18:30Why do I publish YouTube videos?
18:32Why do I go do Instagram reels?
18:34Because I need to be relevant.
18:35The creative side is very...
18:37is very short-lived.
18:40If I'm out of sight,
18:41I'm out of mind.
18:42It's very simple.
18:43But the other part
18:44that I want to address
18:45is that people can go
18:46after Kunal Kamra
18:47because he's a single individual.
18:49You put a bigger person there,
18:51a bigger party,
18:52bigger person,
18:53bigger hold of power there,
18:55you wouldn't go after him.
18:57Simple.
18:58You wouldn't.
18:59Your courage is directly
19:00proportional to your opponent's size.
19:02Sushma Andhare,
19:04when Uddhav Thackeray
19:06was called bald,
19:08at that time,
19:10the army
19:12protested against him.
19:14There was opposition.
19:15And the other comedians
19:17are saying that
19:18it's a publicity stunt.
19:19They're trying to find
19:20their relevance,
19:21their virality,
19:22their engagement.
19:23That's why they're saying
19:24such things.
19:25Because they know
19:26that if you crack such jokes
19:27today,
19:28there will be a problem.
19:30No, no.
19:31I don't think so.
19:32I don't think so.
19:33I don't think so at all.
19:34Because
19:36if anyone thinks about
19:38Kunal Kamra's publicity
19:40and is worried about it,
19:42then understand that
19:43those who have
19:45millions of followers,
19:46they don't need
19:47all these activities.
19:49Let me tell you one more thing.
19:51Kunal Kamra is an artist.
19:53As per our Indian Constitution,
19:54Chapter 3, Article 19,
19:56everyone has a right.
19:58We call it as a right to express.
20:00If this right to express
20:01is given to everyone,
20:02then Kunal is also
20:04a citizen of this country.
20:06If he is a citizen of this country,
20:08then he should also get this right.
20:10I would like to give
20:12one more example.
20:14Let me give you an example.
20:16Just a few days before,
20:18Prashant Koratkar
20:20gave some comments about
20:22our great king,
20:23King Shiv Chhatrapati.
20:25And what BJP
20:27or Shiv Sena,
20:28what they had done
20:30None of them
20:32went to Koratkar's house
20:34and broke it.
20:36Rahul Solapurkar
20:38gave an interview to a TV channel.
20:40No one went to that TV channel's studio
20:42and broke it.
20:44Shrikant Bhartiya
20:46made a very bad joke
20:48that he kept the name of his stomach
20:50in the name of King Shambhu.
20:52So, no one asked Shrikant Bhartiya.
20:54So, all these people
20:56don't understand this.
20:58They don't understand
21:00that everyone
21:02for our self-betterment
21:04you have to take some feedback
21:06for your self-development.
21:10But let Anish Gawande respond
21:12to what we heard from Jivishu Aluwalia
21:14where he is saying that
21:16every artist needs some new engagement,
21:18new virality
21:20and the fact is that
21:22someone like Kunal Kamra
21:24would have known that his jokes
21:26were for publicity.
21:32But who is not doing things for publicity?
21:34Is it wrong to do something for publicity?
21:36As you said, he is a comedian.
21:38His job is to fill up his show.
21:40This vulgarity ki Lakshman Rekha
21:42that keeps getting drawn is the problem, Rahul.
21:44Who is defining this Lakshman Rekha?
21:46Do you define it by breaking
21:48someone's studio before going to court?
21:50The BJP has a lot of initiatives.
21:52Start-up India, Stand-up India,
21:54the newest initiative is Shut-up India.
21:56This is part of an organized
21:58set of attempts to stifle
22:00any dissent. Right from the
22:02Ranveer Allahabadia controversy
22:04which was a decoy for the broadcasting bill
22:06that they still haven't brought in Parliament
22:08to the Maharashtra Public Security Act
22:10which they want to bring into the Vidhan Sabha soon.
22:12This is an attempt to stifle any voice
22:14on this claim of vulgarity,
22:16on the claim of being anti-national.
22:18But China, see what it means.
22:20Frankly, I have never spent time
22:22listening to any camera jokes before this.
22:24But because of this controversy, I sat and
22:26watched almost the entire 45-minute clip
22:28which I wouldn't have done otherwise.
22:30So you're actually giving him more mind-space,
22:32air-time, than he would have otherwise had.
22:34I mean, how many people would have
22:36paid attention to his jokes? There are so many other jokes
22:38that he's cracked which, if you were to be
22:40offended with, would probably be
22:42deemed as being more offensive. The others aren't
22:44offended. Why are you guys so offended?
22:46Look, firstly,
22:48Rahul, we are open to any
22:50legitimate voices of dissent,
22:52critique, commentary,
22:54and two and a half years
22:56as testimony to that. You've had lots of
22:58journalists who have written for,
23:00against, have had opinions,
23:02freedom of expression. Yes,
23:04absolutely welcome. But look at
23:06this man who pretends to be a comedian
23:08but is nothing but a stooge.
23:10He is nothing but
23:12a puppet at the hands of certain
23:14political parties to which he's sold
23:16his soul. Tell me...
23:18When he's true and he's sold his soul to some
23:20party, he's allowed to oppose you
23:22like Anish Gawande is opposing you.
23:24Kamra's allowed to oppose you.
23:26He's welcome to oppose but he dare
23:28call my leader a traitor when
23:30he is not. And if that has
23:32a reaction, obviously it will
23:34because the carder is charged...
23:36But Sanjay Raut has called Eknath Shinde a traitor.
23:38Aditya Thackeray calls him a traitor.
23:40Uddhav Thackeray has called him a traitor
23:42even today. Why aren't you filing cases
23:44against them then? The fact
23:46is that the police has also
23:48taken cognizance of perpetrators
23:50even if they are within our party itself.
23:52No, no, no. I'm saying
23:54I have comments and I'll
23:56play them out. Just give us a moment.
23:58I have comments from people today
24:00calling Eknath
24:02Shinde a traitor. I'm saying
24:04if that is the charge, why
24:06an FIR against one and not against
24:08the other? Just listen in for a second. This is a very
24:10classist, racist statement. Even what
24:12he has said about him being an auto rickshaw driver.
24:14Please, this is aspirational India.
24:16Just one second, just listen in.
24:18This is the idea of comedy. Then it's vulgar in my opinion.
24:20One second, Shaina.
24:22I feel that every line of his
24:24and every word of his is right.
24:26All the opposition parties
24:28of the political parties are
24:30putting the same allegations on him.
24:32He also said the words of poetry.
24:34The first thing is that
24:36if we say democracy in this country
24:38and believe in democracy
24:40then all these things
24:42should be accepted.
24:44It's not like my father
24:46or anything like that.
24:48It's not like that.
24:50It's not like that.
24:52The truth
24:54that he has said
24:56is that he is a traitor.
24:58He has broken the party.
25:00The government that you have created
25:02and the Chief Minister that you have created
25:04is because of the Indian people's party.
25:06The people know this. The Indian people's party
25:08has broken the parties.
25:10So somewhere
25:12Eknath Shinde must have felt
25:14that he is speaking the truth
25:16and the people are laughing at him.
25:18So his image
25:20and the image that is left
25:22is also getting destroyed.
25:24But the thing about comedy is
25:26Shaina that it's not
25:28supposed to make you think
25:30what a righteous and morally correct thing to say.
25:32I mean it's supposed to be funny.
25:34Some will find it funny.
25:36You have all these comedians
25:38making fun of all of us all the time.
25:40You just look the other way or you ignore it.
25:42You don't go about filing FIRs.
25:44No. Then be open to all the reactions
25:46you will get. Some of us will come on
25:48television and express ourselves.
25:50You must. I have no problem with that.
25:52Why use the force of the law against him?
25:54There are different people.
25:56Kader responds differently.
25:58Actions come out with different kinds of reactions.
26:00And this is not the first time.
26:02Do you mean to say that everything
26:04that this man who is a real joker
26:06has made on the Supreme Court
26:08calling it a supreme joke,
26:10on Justice Chandra Truth,
26:12on Venu Gopalji,
26:14the list is so endless.
26:16Does this sensationalism
26:18mean that you can just get away
26:20with saying anything you want?
26:22Is that the only parameter?
26:24Why ransack this place?
26:26The auditorium
26:28where this event happened.
26:30Why have your people gone and ransacked that place?
26:32What's wrong with the venue?
26:34Why vandalize the venue?
26:36Shaina NC.
26:38Why vandalize the venue?
26:40He may be a political stooge.
26:42He doesn't like you. You don't like him.
26:44That's fine. Why file an FIR?
26:46Why ransack this place?
26:48Why not? If it hurts
26:50my sentiment and I choose to register
26:52an FIR, it is my prerogative.
26:54But why ransack this place?
26:56Why ransack the place
26:58where the comedy event was staged?
27:00Nobody is saying that you must ransack
27:02but your people have done it.
27:0412 people have been arrested for that.
27:06And it's not as if the police
27:08hasn't taken cognizance of it.
27:10I'm not for one minute justifying.
27:12As I said, people respond to different issues
27:14very differently. I may choose to come
27:16on TV. Somebody else may want to go there
27:18and express what they believe.
27:20This man who is
27:22nothing short of a comedy
27:24who has now witnessed a tragedy
27:26and therefore we're debating.
27:28I'd like to say that every time
27:30you have this garb of freedom
27:32of expression and you're right.
27:34Why can't others have that right too?
27:36No, of course you can. I have no problem
27:38with you protesting peacefully. You can't go and
27:40ransack and vandalize the place.
27:42That's the point. GV Shivaluwalia wants to make a point.
27:44Go on.
27:46See, I agree with a few comments
27:48this lady made and I think I agree.
27:50See, I'll give you an example. One thing I want
27:52to correct. I don't think Mr. Kunal did it to become famous
27:54but I was just saying that when people
27:56do it, it is not that we're oblivious to the fact
27:58that this will land us into trouble. In fact,
28:00give us a bigger name, bigger stage, bigger exposure.
28:02I was just making a point that Kunal,
28:04me, whoever does it, we know
28:06where it is leading. We don't live
28:08under a rock. So it is not
28:10something that we don't know
28:12what will happen. We know.
28:14Second thing, I think I agree with what China
28:16was saying that, you know, for example, when we
28:18go to a country, like for example, when we go to
28:20Dubai or when we go to
28:22other countries where we are told
28:24that, you know, you can't make fun of the religion, the king,
28:26the state.
28:28And you adhere to it, right?
28:30And you adhere to it. Yeah, simple.
28:32You adhere to it. You simply adhere to it.
28:34So the freedom of expression is not
28:36going ahead and doing... So who gives him the right to speak about
28:38my leader like that? True, true.
28:40That's what I'm... I'm agreeing with you, ma'am. I'm agreeing
28:42with you. If you let me complete my sentence.
28:44So I agree with her. I agree with her
28:46that, yeah, freedom of expression doesn't allow you
28:48to go out and insult my parents or my mother or my
28:50father or my leader, whoever, right?
28:52The answer to your question, Rahul,
28:54is that why haven't we gone and filed,
28:56you know, FIRs
28:58and ransacked Aditya Thackeray's
29:00place or some other leader's
29:02place? Because they're bigger than us. You go
29:04after Kunal Kamra because he's weaker. Simple
29:06as that. It is as simple as that. Let Sanju
29:08Verma respond to that.
29:10Uddhav Thackeray has said the same thing.
29:12Sanjay Rao says it morning, noon
29:14and night. Aditya Thackeray is saying the same
29:16thing. Onn pe toh aapki sarkar ne
29:18FIR ki nahi. You've gone and lodged an FIR against
29:20a comedian.
29:22Okay, you know, Rahul, I will address to
29:24everything. First and foremost, let me just say this.
29:26Your audience needs to hear this. It is
29:28all fine to sit in television
29:30studios and wax eloquent about free
29:32speech, but some people need
29:34to understand that my right to
29:36free expression stops where
29:38yours begins. And Sushma Andhare
29:40needs to listen to this very carefully.
29:42This is what she had to say.
29:44She's been booked under
29:46various sections of the criminal
29:48court for saying so. She has
29:50abused Lord Ram and said
29:52these are her words and quoting it
29:54out of a baton. Please, let me
29:56finish because I'm very excited.
29:58If she's abusing Lord Ram, don't repeat that abuse.
30:00Can I finish? Rahul, can you
30:02not interrupt me? Because if you call the BJP
30:04alarmless, after this is a
30:06debate on free speech, can the BJP
30:08have its say? Yeah, but I just don't want abuses
30:10to Lord Ram on the show, but go on.
30:12Yes, I'm not abusing Lord Ram
30:14and quoting what Sushma Andhare said,
30:16Rahul Kapal. Thank you.
30:18Listen to what she said. I don't want
30:20a husband like Lord Ram,
30:22who wants a husband like Lord Ram,
30:24who showed mistrust of his wife
30:26and sent her to exile when she was
30:28seven months pregnant. If people
30:30raise questions about Goddess Sita's character
30:32for being in Ravana's captivity,
30:34why not to question
30:36Lord Rama's character?
30:38Rahul, let her complete.
30:40I refuse to be a part of your show
30:42if this is the way it's going to be.
30:44I have not heckled anyone. Please ask Sushma
30:46to stop giggling and heckling
30:48like a schoolgirl. She's not a kindergartner.
30:50Thank you. So the limited point
30:52is this. Sushma Andhare
30:54at a public forum has the
30:56audacity and the gall to abuse
30:58Lord Rama saying, I don't want a husband
31:00like Lord Rama, who wants a
31:02husband who actually mistrusted
31:04his wife and sent her into exile
31:06when she was seven months pregnant.
31:08He was alone in the jungle when she was
31:10held hostage, right? So how did she
31:12get pregnant? These are the kind of
31:14irresponsible statements that
31:16Uddhav Thackeray's spokesperson
31:18Sushma Andhare
31:20has made about Lord Rama
31:22and today she's sitting here on Rahul
31:24Kabal's show and giving bhashan
31:26to all and sundry about
31:28free speech. So for the first time
31:30Sushma Andhare, I don't need
31:32your bhashan.
31:34And very quickly, can I please
31:36finish? My second point and very quickly Rahul,
31:38without being verbose,
31:40this is for Sharad Prabha
31:42and his acolytes.
31:44I remember from November 2019
31:46till 29th June
31:482022 when Uddhav Thackeray was the
31:50Chief Minister before he stepped down
31:52via a Facebook live.
31:54How many people were arrested
31:56for doing nothing? For simply
31:58sharing Sharad Prabha's memes or a
32:00simple joke? You had
32:02somebody like Anant
32:04Karmuse, who was picked up from his
32:06residence by Jitendra Awad.
32:08You had somebody like Ketaki
32:10Chitale, a young actress.
32:12She simply shared a meme of Sharad Prabha
32:14and she was picked up and spent 21
32:16days in jail. There's a 21
32:18year old man called Nikhil Bhamre
32:20who was picked up from his residence.
32:22One wrong doesn't justify another.
32:24Just because some other politician did something
32:26bad doesn't mean that we have to do the same.
32:28Sushma Andhare, respond to everything
32:30that's been said about you.
32:32Let's listen to Sushma Andhare
32:34respond to what's been said about her.
32:36I just want to say
32:38that there are a lot of BJP
32:40spokespersons like Sanju Sharma
32:42who are not able to
32:44talk about the issue.
32:46They are experts in
32:48diverting the issue.
32:50These people come to
32:52the same conclusion.
32:54If these people have an
32:56objection to anything I say,
32:58then the things that I
33:00might have said in a debate,
33:02the reference to those things
33:04should be taken
33:06to Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar's
33:08writings and speeches.
33:10If Sanju Sharma's
33:12leader has the courage
33:14to do so,
33:16then Dr. Babasaheb
33:18Ambedkar should
33:20have the courage
33:22to burn all of his
33:24writings and speeches.
33:26I don't see the point
33:28over here.
33:30No, but I don't see the point here.
33:32We're getting derailed.
33:34You're saying that at some level
33:36comedians know where to draw the line
33:38and that they have to be careful
33:40because there are consequences in the real world.
33:42Frankly,
33:44being a comedian is as dangerous as
33:46being in the army. You never know when you'll get bumped off.
33:48What's the point of being a comedian
33:50if there's so much self-censorship going on?
33:52Then you may as well
33:54find something else to do.
33:56No, Rahul. I think it's called talent also.
33:58All of these political jokes
34:00and everything. There are some comics
34:02who will go for political satire.
34:04There are some people who go for family.
34:06There are some people who go for fat, thin,
34:08thin, fat, tall, short,
34:10black, white, you know,
34:12all the husband-wife jokes.
34:14As long as
34:16there's a market for it, people will have
34:18the deliverance of it.
34:20Should you self-censor? Yes, you should self-censor.
34:22Just because there's a freedom of speech,
34:24that doesn't mean that I can go out and blab anything out of my mouth.
34:26I'm sorry. That is not what I would want to do.
34:28Because if somebody else does it to me,
34:30then, like one of the panelists said,
34:32whatever I think is right, I will do it.
34:34Or I will do it. Or whatever my cadre
34:36thinks is right, I will do it.
34:38It's one of the very simple things.
34:40If someone slaps me, I slap back.
34:42But if my slap is less, I cry.
34:44My slap wasn't right.
34:46My problem is not that.
34:48My problem is another thing. My problem is that
34:50whatever is happening
34:52with him is also wrong.
34:54Two wrongs may not make a right, like you said.
34:56Whatever is happening with him is happening
34:58because he's a person who can be beaten around that.
35:00Because he's Kunal Kamra.
35:02You replace that name with any other
35:04big political bigwig, you will dare not touch him.
35:06And you've answered that yourself.
35:08Okay. I think the hypocrisy is writ large
35:10when Uddhav Thackeray,
35:12Aditya Thackeray, Sanjay Rao
35:14keep saying the same thing.
35:16No F.I.R. against them.
35:20Ma'am, I'm out of time. But very quickly,
35:22quick final words.
35:24Let Sushma Andare speak first.
35:26Go on, Sushma.
35:54Just one at a time.
35:56I'll give everyone an opportunity to complete.
35:58Let Sushma...
36:00No, no, no.
36:06Okay.
36:10Let Shaina NC respond.
36:14She's daring you to file an F.I.R. against her.
36:16Do that now. Let Shaina respond.
36:24If you make statements here,
36:26it doesn't suit you, Sushma.
36:28And first of all,
36:30this timing is also suspect.
36:32This is a diversionary tactic.
36:34And please note, why is this out today?
36:36And is it to absolve yourself
36:38of the wrongdoings
36:40that a court of law may prove in the days to come?
36:42Also suspect.
36:44So if you can question, we can question too.
36:46Look at the Telangana government,
36:48what it's done. It's going ahead and arresting
36:50even journalists who have written against them.
36:52We've never done that.
36:54We welcome criticism.
36:56We welcome all kinds of commentary.
36:58It has been our track record of two and a half years
37:00when Eknath Chhinde was the chief minister.
37:02Okay. Anish Gawande, final words.
37:04This is the story of an auto rickshaw driver.
37:06No, no, this is...
37:08Kunal, Kunal, yesterday...
37:10No, no, Kunal.
37:12I don't know. Kunal, I want to agree with Shaina here
37:14and say these are all distractions.
37:16Yesterday Aurangzeb, today Kunal Kamra.
37:18I would just encourage the BMC
37:20that they should focus on fixing potholes
37:22instead of demolishing comedy venues
37:24because that would be what the government is for.
37:26The rest of this can be social media banter.
37:28Okay. Sanju Varma, final words, ma'am.
37:30You know, Rahul, let me just
37:32say one thing to everybody.
37:34Let people realise, both from the Uddhav camp
37:36and the Sharad Pawar camp,
37:38the BJP contested on 149 seats
37:40in the Maharashtra Assembly,
37:42132. That's a strike rate
37:44of 89%.
37:46So let nobody teach us about electoral
37:48politics, point number one. And point number two,
37:50you know, if free speech
37:52is absolute, then I'm sure I will
37:54not be arrested for calling Uddhav Thackeray
37:56senior penguin and Aditya Thackeray
37:58junior penguin because a
38:00karyakarta, Sameed Thakkar,
38:02was arrested for more than two months
38:04with more than three dozen FIRs
38:06filed against him simply because he
38:08chose to call the father and son duo
38:10penguin. And I found it hilarious
38:12that people today who are giving bhashan
38:14on free speech...
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39:00One wrong doesn't condone another.
39:02Just because somebody was intolerant
39:04when it was their turn to be tolerant doesn't
39:06mean that they can now get away by
39:08accusing someone else of intolerance. I think
39:10there's a lot of hypocrisy and our debate has brought
39:12all of that out. I want to thank
39:14our guests for bringing out their different perspectives
39:16in the news track. The 4%
39:18minority quota war in Karnataka
39:20resonated in parliament today.
39:22There were loud protests by the treasury
39:24benches against DK Shivkumar's
39:26statement hinting at changing the
39:28constitution. The BJP accused the
39:30Congress of dividing India while
39:32the Congress claimed that the BJP was spreading
39:34misinformation. Here are the highlights
39:36of the quota showdown in parliament.
39:42Days after the Karnataka assembly
39:44passed a bill providing Muslim quota
39:46in government contracts,
39:48the battle over reservation has
39:50reached parliament.
39:52There were uproar in the house as
39:54union ministers took up comments
39:56made by Karnataka deputy chief minister
39:58DK Shivkumar on the
40:00quota at an event.
40:02The treasury benches claimed
40:04Shivkumar had stated that the
40:06constitution will change to
40:08accommodate the quota.
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40:52The uproar wasn't limited
40:54to Rajya Sabha. The Lok Sabha also
40:56witnessed disruptions.
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41:22Following the backlash,
41:24the Karnataka deputy chief minister
41:26claimed that his remarks were taken
41:28out of context.
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42:32countries including Muslims in government contracts has become hot political issue in
42:37Karnataka.
42:38The BJP has described it as reservation based on religion while the Congress calls it a
42:43move aimed at social justice.
42:46The fight is not over yet.
42:49The bill now needs the approval of the Governor.
42:52With Sagai Raj in Bengaluru, Bureau Report, India Today.
43:02The High Court Judge Cash Scandal is getting bigger.
43:05The Supreme Court Collegium has now officially repatriated Justice Verma to his parent court.
43:10He has also been derostered and Parliament too has taken note of the case.
43:14Our legal editor Nalini Sharma with the details.
43:36Wads of cash reduced into ashes.
43:40This video of alleged cash haul is mounting the heat on the Delhi High Court Judge Justice
43:47Yashwant Verma.
43:51The judge has been derostered by the High Court and all judicial work withdrawn.
43:58While the probe into alleged cash haul is ramping up.
44:02A three-member High Court Judge panel has launched an in-house inquiry on the unaccounted
44:08cash.
44:10Under the spotlight are the first responders to the fire at the judge's home.
44:15They will be quizzed on what happened on March 14th.
44:20The authenticity of the cash video and the site where money was found will be verified.
44:26The staff and security will be interrogated.
44:30The statements by the judge, the Delhi Police and the Delhi Fire Services will also be probed.
44:37The judge's call records are under scrutiny for two reasons.
44:41What information he received the night of the fire and what calls he made after receiving
44:46the call on the fire at his home.
44:51Justice Yashwant Verma has denied all allegations linking him to the burning cash, claiming
44:57the storeroom where it was allegedly found was accessible to all.
45:03The incident has left the legal fraternity divided.
45:33The cash haul row echoed in Parliament, with Rajya Sabha Chairman Jagdeep Dhankar holding
45:45a key meet with Leader of the House JP Nadda and Leader of Opposition Malik Arjun Karge.
45:52The opposition is demanding a statement from the law minister.
46:13Claims and counterclaims mounting in the cash haul.
46:17Our eyes are on whether the SC-appointed panel can unveil the truth.
46:24With Nalini Sharma, Bureau Report, India Today.