Maharashtra Deputy Chief Minister Eknath Shinde has claimed there was a conspiracy behind the Kunal Kamra joke row.
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00:00Good evening. Hello and welcome. You're with the news today. This is your prime time destination
00:06news. Newsmakers talking point Tuesday night. We are constantly focusing on what we believe
00:12is one of the biggest stories of recent times. That big cash all at a high court judges residence.
00:19The three judge panel has begun the probe. What should happen? Abhishek Manu Singh, one
00:25of the country's top lawyers will join me. We've been talking to the top lawyers yesterday.
00:29Mukul Rothi. Today it will be Abhishek Manu Singh's turn. Also, we continue to focus on
00:35the aftermath of the Kunal Kamra case and also an attack in Tamil Nadu on a YouTuber.
00:42Is free speech under threat across India? Is our big talking point. But as always, first,
00:48it's time for the nine headlines at nine. The Supreme Court appointed in-house committee
00:54begins its inquiry. Visits the Delhi High Court Judge Yashwant Verma's residence. The
01:01panel inspects the premises as a first step. Maharashtra's Deputy Chief Minister Eknath
01:11Shinde claims there was a conspiracy behind the Kunal Kamra joke. Rao says a well thought
01:17out plot behind the controversy. Kamra mocks the Sena Youth Wing chief, seeks one week
01:23time to appear before the police. YouTuber from Tamil Nadu exposed alleged sanitation
01:33scam targeted Savukku Shankar's home, ransacked, sewage thrown inside. YouTuber accuses the
01:40Tamil Nadu Congress chief of orchestrating the attack. Big revelation in the Starlet
01:49smuggling scandal in Karnataka. Anti-smuggling agency says accused actor Rania routed the
01:55gold money through Hawala channels. Delhi government's big women outreach in the budget
02:03announces 5,100 crores for women's schemes. Big allocation in Delhi budget for Swachh
02:08Yamuna and air pollution. Trade talks with the US begin before reciprocal tariffs deadline.
02:16India cuts industrial tariffs to 10.66 percent. ICE concessions. BJP demands a ban on meat
02:25and liquor shops in Delhi and J&K during Navratri. Call for Curve Sparks, a political showdown.
02:34Donald Trump defends his team after top American security leaders include journalists by mistake
02:39on a group chat discussing the Yemen war plan. Senate hearing underway. Chinese electric
02:48vehicle giant BYD outperforms Tesla, surpasses Tesla with a record 2024 revenue. But the
03:07big story we are breaking and our continuing focus on that big cash haul at a judge's residence.
03:14The three judge panel has now begun the probe. The panel has visited Justice Yashwant Verma's
03:20official residence in the national capital. Remember, it was in the outhouse of the national
03:25capital that the currency notes were found, which has set off a storm. This evening, the
03:34Rajya Sabha chairperson and Vice President Jagdeep Dhankar has held a meeting with floor
03:38leaders to discuss whether Parliament should take any steps. Sources say the government
03:43is seeking the views of all political parties on the issue, whether there should be if necessary
03:50impeachment proceedings against the judge if the three judge inquiry committee finds
03:56him guilty. Remember, the heat is mounting on the Delhi High Court judge, Justice Verma.
04:02The three judge panel formed by the Chief Justice of India is investigating the burnt
04:07cash haul that was recovered by going to the residence where this happened. Meanwhile,
04:13the Allahabad High Court Bar Association has announced it will go on an indefinite strike
04:17from today to protest the proposed repatriation of the judge, Justice Verma, to his parent
04:23court. And as I said earlier, in a political showdown, Jagdeep Dhankar is now meeting opposition
04:29leaders and the leader of the house. We look at all those three angles with Abhishek Manu
04:35Singh, but first take a look at our top story again. The probe into the alleged cash haul at
04:48a Delhi High Court judge's house gather stream. The three judge panel appointed by the Chief
04:53Justice of India visited Justice Yashwant Verma's residence on Tuesday. Sources informed
04:59India today that probe committee comprising Chief Justices of Punjab and Haryana High Court,
05:07Karnataka High Court and Himachal Pradesh High Court had arrived there. And in fact,
05:11they spent around 45 minutes inquiring about the incident. In fact, they also recorded statement
05:18of Justice Verma and in fact also visited the exact spot or the exact room that had caught
05:26and where this alleged recovery of burned cash notes was made. The Supreme Court Collegium has
05:34recommended transfer of Justice Yashwant Verma to the Allahabad High Court, but the decision
05:39has triggered protest. The Allahabad High Court Bar Association has begun an indefinite strike,
05:49raising concerns over allegations of corruption against the judge.
05:53I have scheduled a meeting. Vice President Jagdeep Dhankar called a meeting of law
06:18leaders to discuss the cash haul. I have scheduled a meeting after seeking convenience at 4.30 pm
06:27today with the floor leaders as suggested by leader of the opposition and agreed to by leader
06:34of the house. I am sure we will have very fruitful interaction and find a way out.
06:42The opposition raised the issue in Parliament. In-house procedure of the judicial system is
06:51concurrent and independent to what Parliament does. And the constitutional procedure with regard
07:00to the oversight of judiciary has been laid down very explicitly in the Constitution of India. If
07:07the law minister does not make a statement to Parliament, he would be in violation of
07:12the constitutional propriety. The cash was recovered on March 14 when a fire broke out
07:20at Justice Verma's residence. The Supreme Court later posted videos of burning cash submitted by
07:26the Delhi police. Justice Verma in response to Delhi High Court Chief Justice dismissed any link
07:34to the cash. With Nalini Sharma and Rahul Gautam, Bureau Report, India Today.
08:04I was in the house when the floor leaders left around 4.30 to meet the honourable chairperson
08:22of the Rajya Sabha in his chamber. The first answer to your question, Rajdeep, is that this
08:32is the beginning and the Chief Justice of India deserves kudos in having started in the right
08:38manner, right direction, right momentum. Had he not done so, all of us would be in reverse,
08:45highly critical of him. So certainly it may not be enough. It is a necessary but not a sufficient
08:50condition. Inquiry in the manner promptly done, a transparency quotient which is extremely high
08:59and in fact uncharacteristically so in many Supreme Court trial proceedings. And that part
09:06I have nothing to fault on. Number two, I think we should not mix up the transfer part because I
09:10think that's largely inconsequential. Quite frankly... How is it inconsequential? That's
09:19the fear. That's the fear that you're transferring a judge almost as if you're seen either to be
09:25protecting him in some manner or not willing to take tougher action. Let me tell you why I use
09:31the word inconsequential. I use it in the current context. Look, a judge, Justice Verma, who actually
09:39by most accounts, and I don't know him otherwise, I've appeared before him, is considered one of
09:44the best judges in Delhi High Court, cannot possibly have any authority to discharge his
09:49functions from the bench whether he sits here or in Allahabad. So really he'd be neither functioning
09:54as a judge here nor functioning there. So in that sense, I thought, I said that the issue of
09:59transfer is temporarily inconsequential. He wouldn't be sitting, he wouldn't be exercising any
10:04authority, judicial authority. But what is important is that the Chief Justice did the right thing and
10:10very promptly, but it is certainly not a sufficient condition. The inquiry must be concluded promptly
10:16within reasonable time. But equally, I am very careful in saying that the inquiry must follow a
10:24reasonable due process. Don't dam and don't hang without due process. Because there are many, many
10:30disturbing questions I have also on the side. And what are those disturbing? No, no, Dr. Singh,
10:37what are the disturbing questions? Because yesterday I had Mukul Rodgi on the show who raised
10:41serious question, where is the police panchnama? What does the income tax have to say? Is the
10:46currency genuine fake? What are your disturbing questions? I didn't speak on this for the last
10:51few days, because frankly, I was hesitant. I don't quite like the idea of, you know, kind of being
10:55seen as rubbing my hands in glee at somebody's discomfiture. But now that things have settled
11:00down, I thought I would speak. And you should, the committee should take care that when they proceed
11:06further, in whatever manner, they should not make it an irreversible stigma on the judge in case he
11:12comes out clean. That's important. Now, the disturbing questions are obvious. One, we have
11:18been in social media and elsewhere hearing figures from 5 to 15 to 50. Somebody mentioned the other
11:24day 700. Where is a small part of it? Question number one. You cannot say that burnt notes which
11:31you see on videos are cash of so and so amount. Also, obviously, there is a direct contradiction
11:37on other questions whether the daughter and the guard telephoned or only the guard telephoned
11:42is relatively minor. But there is a direct 180 degree opposition on the issue of locked or open
11:49access to all or access to none. Now, that is something which must be sorted out by reference
11:55to CCTVs. Just note one thing, Rajdeep, it would be very absurd, you know, if a it is locked,
12:03then you break it. Even if you come to my house or your house for breaking required punches,
12:07you require witnesses, you require evidence. In a judge's house, if you break a locked door,
12:12you require a whole amount of recording. If it is not locked, then it's a totally different
12:17ballgame and gives credence to the judge's defense. So I think we need to hasten slowly
12:22we meaning the committee and make sure then again, are you suggesting are you suggesting
12:27somewhere that you see a setup was the judge set up? Could there be other forces behind it? Could
12:33there be fixers involved? No, no, let's be clear, because lots of theories are swirling around.
12:39I have seen the same memories in the same social media, which you have. And like you,
12:44I will not be responsible to start mouthing or parroting what I have seen or read.
12:49I think the jury is out on a lot of issues, but certainly the core issues are vital for the
12:55independence of the judiciary, for the integrity and reputation of a judge who's otherwise been
13:00blemishless on his judicial conduct on the bench, and also for the system. Because, you know,
13:07there is a totally open place, where is the inventorization? Where is the panchadama?
13:14These are things you do for a normal hundred rupee thousand rupee theft. So these are things
13:19which this committee is best empowered. I don't have access, you don't have access.
13:22No, do you fear? Let me push you a bit. Do you fear it? Are you not ruling out? Are you saying
13:27you're not ruling out the possibility that Justice Verma was set up?
13:32I wouldn't use the word setup. But I would say that I'm not ruling out the possibility that he's
13:36totally unaware or uninvolved, unless these disturbing questions are answered one way or
13:42the other. It's obvious on just two questions. So then who would be involved then?
13:47That's another matter of inquiry. It could be a setup. It need not be a setup. It could be
13:52people who have been doing something else there. And you know, have been caught and have done some
13:58burning, etc. It could be a number of things. I mean, this is pure speculation. But certainly,
14:03these are questions because there is the problem I find is the opacity about the fire brigade
14:10and the police. Now, I am not saying there is opacity because that might be available to the
14:14committee. But in the public domain, the alacrity with which direct evidence like a video was shared
14:20is not the same alacrity with which the police version and the fire version has been shared.
14:24Now, these are two vital things. So there are four vital things. Open or closed door,
14:29if locked, how broken, video, panchadama, witnesses, inventorization. And where is the
14:35cash? Even burnt cash, where is it kept? Can it be counted to a certain extent? These are only
14:42committee matters. So I think they should be very careful. And there should be no knee jerk reaction
14:46in just you know, gloating. All of us in this society, unfortunately, today, we have great fun
14:51when somebody else is in trouble. I don't believe in that. In fact, quite frankly, I kept away from
14:56it's not gloating. My final question to you is simply this is not gloating. I think what the
15:00media and others are asking is that there is a fear that judicial corruption has reached some
15:06of the higher reaches of our judiciary. We hear a lot of speculation over it about how judges are
15:11about bench fixing and was given all of that. Do you concede that what has happened has naturally
15:18led people to believe maybe their worst fears are being proven true. That's the problem.
15:23Absolutely. I wouldn't go to the extent of saying that you are, Rajdeep, using words of
15:27studied moderation. I mean, today, I'm not talking of this case. And these kind of cases
15:33fuel that perception. Having spent a lifetime and we started practice, there would be in hushed
15:38tones a mention that sometimes this percentage of so and so district judge has this problem.
15:44As time went by, we started hearing of high court judges. As time goes on further,
15:48we hear of Supreme Court judges. So perceptions are very important for the integrity of the
15:53system. And I agree with you entirely. This kind of thing shakes the very root in the foundations.
15:58So I'm not taking it lightly, but I'm just saying, be thorough. And these are very good three judges,
16:03you know, chief justices, etc. I'm sure they will follow that process. And then be transparent,
16:08be thorough, and then be transparent. Thereafter, if they start hiding things, there'll be a big
16:13problem. Can I therefore ask you in conclusion, does the political class parliament have any
16:18role at this stage? Or is parliament also jumping the gun? Is the is the chairman playing to the
16:23gallery by saying I'm holding this all party meeting? Why does parliament have any role at all?
16:28Two things. Parliament's role in a discussion model cannot be questioned. Parliament can discuss
16:36there is an article in the Constitution, which does not allow the conduct of a judge in court
16:41to be discussed in parliament. And reciprocally, parliament's conduct within the house not to be
16:46discussed by the judiciary, but that doesn't apply for corruption cases. So discussion is absolutely
16:52available and kosher. But equally, I don't think knee jerk reactions that we will press a button
17:00and change clearly a stigmatized collegium into or rather not not too successful collegium
17:09into a brand new shining NJC. And by that press of button, you'll start having shining
17:14good judges. I don't subscribe to that view. Okay, I would not I would say before you shift all that
17:19you must think carefully, you must see that executive interference in the judiciary is
17:23equally minimized. And you must see ultimately, it's the source which has to be good and pure.
17:28When I select you, and I select a good man, then it will have an effect down the line. So it's the
17:34selection process which has to be done properly. And I don't think a press button away from the
17:38collegium into NJC or from NJC to the collegium is going to make that easily a difference. It's
17:44it's the wisdom and the nuance of how you select. Let me leave it there. Dr. Singh me you've given
17:50us your perspective. You've broken your silence. It's interesting how more and more senior lawyers
17:54are now finally speaking out on the case. I hope that many of you join in a wider public discussion
18:01which is needed on the state of our higher judiciary. I appreciate you joining us. Dr.
18:05Singh me there on that big story that we've been tracking. At this moment, we're also getting some
18:11breaking news a big political story is happening at this moment because the AIDMK chief and former
18:18Tamil Nadu Chief Minister E. Palanisamy has met Home Minister Amit Shah a short while ago. The AIDMK
18:25is now reportedly in alliance talks with the BJP ahead of Tamil Nadu elections next year. Remember
18:32Tamil Nadu goes to the polls in March next year. The two sides did not fight the Lok Sabha elections
18:37together which is why there is speculation. Is E. Palanisamy his visit to Amit Shah suggesting BJP
18:44and AIDMK could fight the elections together. Pramod Madhav my colleague from Chennai is joining me
18:50at this moment. Pramod what are you picking up because during the Lok Sabha Anna Malai the leader
18:56of the Tamil Nadu BJP made it clear no truck with the Dravida parties. Now we are seeing these
19:01pictures. Is there a real possibility of a BJP-AIDMK alliance? There is quite a real possibility
19:08right now because earlier it was speculated for more than six months ago E. Palanisamy very
19:12clearly mentioned that he will not have any kind of alliance with BJP and that's how he also faced
19:17the parliament elections. But however for the past one month he has actually softened his stance. He
19:22has said that whatever talks need to be done about the alliance it will be only conducted
19:27during the like next year maybe two months before election or such and right now it was a surprise
19:32visit by the opposition leader as this happened amidst the assembly that is happening currently
19:38and in fact the chief minister also took a dig at it saying that we all know that opposition
19:43leader is going to Delhi and we also know that he's going to meet a prominent person. So it
19:47seems that the dice has started to roll. Where does this leave Anna Malai because Anna Malai
19:53has become the face of the TN BJP and he's been against the AIDMK now. I don't see him in any of
20:00the pictures. Is this being now done at the level of Amit Shah with Anna Malai possibly having to
20:04just accept it, swallow and accept it? Well one thing is very clear. E. Palanisamy has made it
20:11very clear that he is the leader of AIDMK and he will be the leader of opposition party in the
20:15state of Tamil Nadu because that is what Anna Malai did not agree upon. He said that Anna Malai said
20:20that BJP will be the leading force but AIDMK did not agree to it. So right now it looks like
20:25probably BJP has come down a bit and said that like probably they should have to go
20:30and look about on this also. Definitely it's going to be not in favor of Anna Malai Rajiv.
20:34Okay we'll wait and see how that goes but clearly the BJP is showing an element of flexibility. One
20:40day your adversaries, next day your allies Palanisamy and the AIDMK have been NDA allies
20:46and elections coming close could well mean realignment in Tamil Nadu. Pramod Madhav joining
20:52me there from Chennai with the very latest. Let's turn to another news story the Kunal Kamra
20:57controversy involving the stand-up comedian that continues to snowball. Today Maharashtra's Deputy
21:02Chief Minister Eknath Shinde claimed that Kamra took a supari to make remarks against him while
21:09the comedian is defiant and says he will not apologize. The Mumbai police has now summoned him
21:14to the city. Kamra has sought a week's time. The question is why are more people not speaking out
21:22though in favor of someone who's been targeted for expressing his opinion. Take a look.
21:33A satirical take snowballs into a political slugfest.
21:37Comic Kunal Kamra and Deputy Chief Minister Eknath Shinde in the eye of this storm.
21:43Eknath Shinde claims conspiracy alleging Kamra took supari to make the remarks against him in the
21:49comedy special saying every action has a reaction. Shinde says it's sentiment that
21:57led Shiv Sena workers to vandalize the comedy club where Kamra performed in February.
22:05The comedian is defiant. Kamra refuses to apologize
22:09claiming he made the same comment Ajit Pawar made on Shinde earlier
22:13and he has the right to poke fun at Netas.
22:31The Habitat studio, the venue of Kamra's show was targeted by Shiv Sena workers on Sunday.
22:37Kamra condemned the vandalism unleashed by the Sena workers but reiterated he's not afraid.
22:51The Maharashtra government is doubling down on the comedian. The BMC continued
22:55its crackdown on Habitat pulling down alleged illegal portions of the building.
23:36Its backlash has triggered a war of words between the BJP and the Maharashtra Vikas Aghari.
24:07Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath too hit out at the comic
24:16claiming freedom of speech can't be misused to insult others or divide.
24:37The comedian has now been summoned by the Mumbai police but he sought a week's time to appear.
24:51With Divya H Singh in Mumbai, Bureau Report, India Today.
24:59But it's not just Mumbai. Turn to Chennai where controversial Tamil YouTuber Savukku Shankar
25:05is back in controversy. Savukku alleges that a gang broke into his home, threw sewage in the
25:11kitchen and bedroom and later threatened him over a video call while his mother was alone. And he
25:16is claiming that he is being targeted because he is exposing corruption in the DMK Congress
25:22government in Tamil Nadu. Pramod Madhav has more. Sewage and shit in kitchen and bedroom.
25:36Vandalism and threat. This video was put out by Tamil YouTuber Savukku Shankar. He claims that a
25:44gang broke into his home, threatened his mother all because he exposed an alleged sanitation scam
25:51in the state. He has blamed Tamil Nadu Congress chief for the attack. After this incident happened
25:57I learned that all those people were sent by TNCC president Mr K Selvaparandahai. The reason Mr
26:04Selvaparandahai is angry on me is that I have exposed a huge scam in the delivering of vehicles
26:12in the Dalit entrepreneur scheme. Police sources say the intruders claimed that they were offended
26:18by Shankar's alleged derogatory remarks about sanitation workers in one of his videos. The case
26:24has now been transferred to the CBCID. The Tamil Nadu Congress president meanwhile has rejected
26:30the allegations. I am condemning this incident. Should not allow violence anywhere. But what way
26:37I'm connected? You tell the police, you tell the court what happened. Why is he blaming you sir?
26:42He's having hidden agenda. His hidden agenda is high expectation. Why are you of all politicians
26:47sir? Why are you targeted by Savukku Shankar? He targeted everyone. AIA DMK Palanisamy has hit out
26:55at the DMK government accusing it of intolerance. Savukku Shankar has been a vocal critic of the DMK.
27:02He was arrested under the Gundaz Act twice last year. With Pramod Madhav in Chennai, Bureau Report, India Today.
27:11And joining me now on our big story, free speech under threat across India. Is sponsored violence
27:25being normalized? Will civil society stand up to political thugs? The question that we are raising,
27:32Bharat Dabholkar, senior advertising professional from Mumbai theatre artist, someone in the past
27:38has been seen close to the Shiv Sena. Sameer Soni is actor and director. Tushar Gandhi is
27:44activist and great grandson of Mahatma Gandhi. He's in fact put out a petition, letter petition
27:49protesting against the Maharashtra government on this issue. Suman C Raman is Chennai based
27:55political analyst. I appreciate all of you joining us. I want to come to you Tushar Gandhi because
27:59you and others in Mumbai have drafted a petition condemning the Maharashtra government for allowing
28:04the thugs to get away. Now you seem to be among the very few voices in public life speaking out.
28:12Most people in Mumbai, particularly the celebrities don't want to say a word.
28:18Yeah, I think I don't have to worry because I live in a rented apartment so the
28:23threat of the bulldozer won't work on me and I'm not afraid of goons so that threat also doesn't
28:29deter me. So I can afford to raise my voice against such kind of
28:40muscleman attitude that has become a very, it's become a normal habit of people in power.
28:48When they can't do what really matters, they resort to such thuggery to establish their
28:56dominance and show off their strength. It's reprehensible. But why do you think so many
29:05people are not, why do you think celebrities and many Mumbaikers are unwilling to speak out? Is
29:11it the fear factor at the end of the day? People fear that if it is Kunal Kamra tomorrow, if they
29:17come out in his support, they will be targeted next? Yes, it is definitely the fear factor
29:23because we see that hate, abuse, uncouth language, when it is used by politicians,
29:34even the legal process is not done against them. But if an ordinary citizen raises
29:40their voice, then they are brutalized, they are traumatized and they are terrorized. These are
29:47terror tactics. These are urban terrorists working under the patronage of the government
29:54of the day. Okay, let me come to you Sameer Soni for a moment. I know you don't want to refer to
29:59specific political parties. I take your point. But the fact is that I find very few, I tried
30:06today to speak to stand up comedians to join the show, to actors to join the show. Everyone said,
30:12please don't involve me in this. We don't want to get involved. Now, if you don't get involved
30:16and speak, then the Shiv Sena or the thugs who are responsible for these activities in Mumbai
30:22even get more emboldened. Why is it that so many of you who are in the celebrity world of Mumbai
30:28never speak up? Rajdeep, I can't speak for other people, what their reason is, but either they're
30:38scared, they're not sure. But as far as I'm concerned, I think freedom of speech or right
30:44to speech is a very ambiguous and an extremely powerful right you have, you know. I mean,
30:49with a lot of freedom comes a lot of power and with that comes a lot of responsibility,
30:55which means if you want to say something, you have to be sure what you're saying,
30:59where you're saying and when you're saying. That's just the basic thing. So, the big thing that comes
31:05in, where does… But does that justify violence? Sameer, there is one part where freedom of speech
31:12is ambiguous. What is unambiguous is the violence, private property being demolished simply because
31:18a stand-up comedian did an act in a hotel studio. Surely, that's why you should draw the line.
31:23Tomorrow, it could be a film set. Okay. No, okay. Like I was saying that I have my own circle of
31:32freedom and how do we know that I touch your circle of freedom and that's where, you know,
31:40the contradiction starts and as far as the reaction is concerned, who is to say who's
31:46enraged how? I mean, and you know very well the fact that if a lot of YouTubers or, you know,
31:56people who engage people in YouTube and stuff like that, they make these comments about
32:02politicians, about film stars because they want to get a reaction and that's in… in that lies
32:09the fun of it. You crack a joke at the PM or VPPM or the… or an actor and everybody has a big laugh
32:17but when you push something, you will get a pushback. The pushback cannot involve violence,
32:23Sameer. Why I am not involved is… The pushback cannot involve violence. There must be a…
32:27No, I am not… I am not… I am not… Look, no, no, exactly. I know but who and what does…
32:34What is the line? Okay. You know very well, few years back, there was this
32:42spokesperson for a certain party who refers… referred to the prophet of a certain community
32:47and people took offense to that and she was banned from the party for next two, three years.
32:52So, when this comes to these kind of things, where do you draw the line? It's always between
32:57have and have-nots. The people who have the power, they will react as harshly, as softly as they can
33:04and it's for the law and the judge to take its own course but to me is that if you can't take
33:08the heat, get out of the kitchen. You have no business being there because you know the country
33:12you live in. You didn't think that you will talk about so and so and nothing is going to happen to
33:16you. Whether what they did is not right and was overdone. I will not… I will not debate that at
33:23all because that's for the law to decide. Okay, I want to bring in Bharat Dabholkar at this point.
33:29Sameer Soni is saying, how are we going to draw the line that if you're in the field of stand-up
33:34comedy, you're… you want a response from politicians, sometimes politicians respond,
33:38they get enraged and resort to what I call Thokshai or we know as Thokshai Bharat Dabholkar.
33:45You interestingly used to do satire all those years ago. Do you approve
33:49of what the Shiv Sena did yesterday? No, I'll tell you what Rajdeep, I can answer your question
33:54in two ways. For the last 35 years or more, I have been doing political satires where I've
33:59made fun of politicians, I've made fun of prime ministers, heads of different parties and I've
34:04done that all over the country, all over the world and I've never got into trouble because I know
34:10where the Lakshman Resha is. You don't get personal, you make fun of a politician which is
34:15allowed. I don't think it's a crime to make fun of a politician but you don't get personal, you don't
34:20tow the line of another political party to make fun of somebody else. I have done that for 35
34:25years. But how can that justify violence? No, Bharat Dabholkar, I'm sorry. I am talking… you
34:33see, if what you're saying that you know where to draw the line, I've not got personal, are you
34:38telling me if someone gets personal, then you have the right to go and smash the hotel studio?
34:46I think his action was wrong but the reaction was wronger. I don't think anybody has the right to
34:51go and smash the studio or file an FIR. You can reprimand him, you can't do the kinds of things
34:56that the Shiv Sena people have done. That's completely wrong. I don't agree with that but
35:00I am a lawyer and I know constitution more than most of these people who keep on flashing the
35:05copies of constitution that in constitution with your fundamental right to say what you want to say,
35:10there's a proviso that says we have a famous saying that says your right to wave your hand
35:16ends where the other man's cheek begins. You have a restriction on your fundamental rights,
35:20you can't misuse that. You can't say I have a freedom to say what I want to say,
35:24you don't have that freedom. Okay, I want to bring in Sumant Raman at this moment because Sumant,
35:28you know, all the focus has been on Mumbai and what has been diluted in the process is what
35:33happened in Chennai where a YouTuber claims that his house was also ransacked. Now, there is a
35:40argument of selective outrage that the liberals outrage because the Shiv Sena is the culprit in
35:46Mumbai, don't outrage because the DMK and the Congress are being accused of using their goons
35:51to target a YouTuber. How do you respond to this argument of selective outrage?
36:00Outrage tends to be targeted at whoever you want to target, so therefore it is quite selective.
36:07But Rajdeep, I am sort of a little surprised and saddened at what I have heard. There is
36:14freedom of speech which is guaranteed under the constitution but very very importantly,
36:19the only limits that have been set on the freedom of speech can be enforced only by the state,
36:27not by somebody. If you feel offended, you cannot go and do the enforcement yourself.
36:33That is why if somebody was offended by Kunal Khamra, the solution would have been to go to
36:39court, not to go and vandalize the studio. So, I think that people are missing the point here.
36:46Nobody is saying that freedom of speech is unrestricted. I agree that there have to be
36:52reasonable restrictions but the only entity that can restrict that freedom according to our
36:59constitution, if you believe in our constitution, is the state.
37:03But that's true of Tamil Nadu as much as Maharashtra.
37:14Let me complete this. What has happened to Savkashankar is an appalling incident.
37:20Now let me tell you, these people who attacked his house did not even bother to conceal themselves.
37:28They are on video. At least in the Maharashtra Kunal Khamra incident, an FIR has been filed,
37:3511 people have been arrested. Okay, they have got bail, whatever, they have been produced before
37:40a magistrate. In Chennai, till I last heard, there is no FIR. Forget calling these people
37:47for enquiry or arresting them. Forget the police having to identify them, the public have identified
37:54them. No action is taken. Across India, it is the same story irrespective of whichever party is
38:01in power. When in the opposition, you will fight for freedom of speech and when you become the
38:06ruling party, you will trample. See what Revanth Reddy has done, government has done with those
38:11lady journalists in Telangana. Make no mistake, there is no BJP, no Congress, no DMK, no Shiv
38:18Sena. They are all the same and they care two hoots for your freedom of speech if they are
38:24criticised, period. Okay, I want to at this moment, Samir Soni, you wanted to respond, go ahead.
38:34Yeah, I would like to respond to Sumanji that what he is saying is more of a matter of law,
38:40the policing. You are responsible for your action if you break law, which is vis-a-vis
38:45destroying property. Surely, you should have to be held for it and it's got nothing to do with
38:51freedom of speech. So, that's true across the border. So, I don't know why that is so relevant
38:57in this particular case. No, no, it's relevant, it's relevant, it's relevant in this particular
39:01case because I had on my show, the Shiv Sena, Yuva Sena leader who led the mob, Rahul Kanal
39:08yesterday and he was happy to take responsibility. Now, if you are going to take responsibility
39:13happily for a violent act, that suggests an element of impunity. You know, beyond the point,
39:19you can't be touched. FIR will be filed, you'll be arrested, you'll wave to the crowd and get
39:24bail the next morning or the same evening. That is completely wrong. That is not allowed. That's
39:28completely wrong. Or in Tamil Nadu's case, no FIR also. Rajdeep, Rajdeep. Yes, Samir.
39:36Now, listen Rajdeep, when you say these people, they come on TV and they take glory on it or feel
39:41great about it, don't you inside feel guilty about that? Because you take these odd incidents
39:47and make it nationwide. No, I believe they should be exposed. I'm not giving a platform, I want to
39:54expose them. The country must know. You're not exposing it. No, no, no. It is, it is, it'll,
39:59no Rajdeep, what you're doing is selective exposure. You're taking some random guy who
40:05was having a beverage and some chicken in a place he shouldn't be doing it and became national news.
40:10He feels like a hero. I feel stupid watching it, talking about him. Is there a national issue that
40:15someone had a beer or chicken somewhere? No, no, no, no. It is a, no, no, one minute, one minute.
40:20Likewise this. I mean, who is this? No, no, no, I'm sorry. No, no, one minute. Who, it is,
40:25the fact is that in, in Mumbai, which, you know, is India's herbs prima city, brand Mumbai,
40:31brand Maharashtra, brand India takes a hit when something like this happens. But just a minute,
40:36I want to make it very clear that stand-up comedians in particular are soft targets. Jokes
40:42are no laughing matter. Right to free speech, remember is enshrined with reasonable restrictions
40:46under article 19. But what is happening now is my right to take offense. We are easily offended
40:53and many stand-up comedians therefore become particularly vulnerable. In March 2025,
40:58Shiv Sainik's vandalized a club over Kunal Kamra, but that's not the only time. February 2025,
41:05Ranveer Allahbadia, other YouTubers were then called out for vulgarity, which I believe was
41:12important in its sense, but again, raised questions over where does free speech lines be drawn.
41:16November 2021, Veer Das, celebrated stand-up was booked after he showed two India's in Washington,
41:23DC, targeted politicians across the board. In January 2021, it went worse. Munawar Farooqui
41:30was jailed for one month for his jokes on Hindu deities. In May 2016, and on Amit Shah,
41:37May 2016, Tanmay Bhatt was under fire for mocking Lata Mangeshkar and Sachin Tendulkar.
41:43In January 2016, Kiku Sharda was arrested for mimicking Dera Sacha Sauda chief. He got bail
41:50after the Dera chief forgave him. You see, this is the problem at the moment. Tushar Gandhi,
41:55we've been hearing as was just suggested by Sumant Raman that it's happening in Chennai,
42:00there's no FIR. Do you believe that liberals need to be very clear? Zero tolerance irrespective of
42:06who is in power, whether it's a Mamata Banerjee who arrests a cartoonist for a Facebook post on her,
42:12whether it's now the DMK in the dock or the Shiv Sena in Maharashtra.
42:16Anyone who misuses power must be questioned.
42:21Absolutely, absolutely. And Rajdeep, I don't agree with this accusation that liberals are
42:28selective. Liberals always raise their voice. There are certain issues where the voices are
42:36louder and are picked up. In other issues, you speak about them and nobody bothers.
42:41We can't tar all liberals saying they are selective. Liberals in its actual philosophy
42:50are across the spectrum. They don't care. Anybody does wrong or anybody uses radical methods
42:59are criticized and it happens. So you're saying you condemn Tamil Nadu as much as you condemn
43:07Rewand Reddy, I condemn Tamil Nadu, I condemn everywhere where people are targeted because
43:14there are no limits on freedom of speech. If somebody criminally violates it, there is a court,
43:22there is a law. Because remember Mr. Gandhi for decades, for decades,
43:26when he was supremo, Thokshai was normalized even then. So the fact is it's now you say one
43:32thing when you're in opposition, one thing when you're in government. Bharat Dabholkar,
43:37do you agree with this philosophy that we are being selective or do you think that it's very
43:42clear anyone who resorts to violence must be condemned? Why should Kunal Kamra be the one
43:46condemned? The condemnation should be on the violence. I think Kunal Kamra was wrong,
43:51but I think Shiv Sena which vandalized his property were more wrong than Kunal Kamra was.
43:57You can react as somebody said, you can go to the court, but you can't get into beating up people,
44:02you can't get into destroying. So why is that happening? Why is that happening? Rahul
44:06Kunal came on my show yesterday and said I get emotional. Can you get, is that an argument?
44:12But Rajdeep that is happening with every political party. A girl called Ketki was
44:15jailed because she said something against the NCP supremo of that time. Somebody was jailed
44:21because somebody said come and chant Hanuman Chalisa outside your house. So every party is
44:26wrong. It's not just Shiv Sena. I think whether it's BJP, Shiv Sena, DMK, all the parties,
44:31they are so sensitive about things that they let their goons go into whatever they want to do
44:36and no one restricts them. I think the fault lies with leaders of these parties.
44:40You know the fault lies also with our policing system, Sumant Raman, because as you said,
44:44Chennai hasn't filed an FIR yet, at least at the time when we were doing this show. In Mumbai too,
44:50the police is seen to virtually follow whatever the government wants and where you stand in Indian
44:57politics depends on where you sit. Today, Aditya Thackeray is the one condemning Thackeray
45:02and yet remember it was the Shiv Sena which started Thokshai.
45:09Yeah. Rajdeep, the other important thing you should remember is many of these stand-up comics
45:14have criticized people across the political spectrum and very often, I'll give you an
45:19example. In this case, it's not a stand-up comic but was one of the fiercest critics of the previous
45:25AIDMK government when it was in power. When the DMK came to power, he started attacking the DMK
45:30government and the same DMK leaders were lapping up his videos when they were in the opposition,
45:37suddenly had their guns out for him. So I think this level of hypocrisy saying that
45:42you cannot criticize, you cannot level charges, you cannot make jokes or make fun of us,
45:49we've heard of people, the famous cartoonist R. K. Lakshman and his cartoons on Pandit Nehru
45:58and Indira Gandhi and we've heard about the relationship that Mr. Vajpayee, I think
46:06Shekhar Suman had recited a very nice story about how he used to make fun of Mr. Vajpayee
46:12and Mr. Vajpayee had a huge laugh about it. There was a video today of Mr. Lalu Yadav enjoying
46:17somebody making fun of him. I mean, this is something that is noted and put out as comedy.
46:25Maybe our politicians have become more intolerant. You know, the Vajpayee era that you refer to
46:38was an era where politicians had a higher sort of tolerance quotient. I want to tell our viewers,
46:44I once criticized Balasaheb Thackeray. Shiv Sennings came to my office, black flags,
46:50black ink, I had to move through the back door. But a month later, Bal Thackeray called me
46:55and asked me to have a warm beer with him. So he was ready at the end of the day to accept perhaps
47:00that, you know, criticism, he was a cartoonist himself. And the truth of the matter is maybe
47:06in that generation, politicians were more willing to accept criticism. Now in the age of social media,
47:12our politicians have become far more prickly. You agree with that, Sameer Soni? Could you do
47:16a film, you think, lampooning politicians today? Sameer, could you do a program on TV?
47:26Do a program on TV about what? About lampooning politicians. Do you think
47:30you could get away with it today? I can't. Look, okay, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure I won't.
47:38But let's not digress. You know, this is, if you take this, what is happening right now,
47:43has been happening for years and years and years, right? Because the fine line that separates with
47:49what is okay and acceptable is so fine. You never know when you are stepping on somebody's toes.
47:56And what happens is you're constantly pushing the envelope to find out where does that line lie?
48:01And you get pushbacks. Similarly, we didn't have digital stuff. We did not have stand-up
48:06comedians earlier. So, they're pushing and they're getting the pushbacks. And very soon,
48:11this will settle down to a different thing. For example, when you and I were in school,
48:16if we didn't do our homework, a teacher would come and, you know, slap us with a ruler or
48:20something. Today, it would be considered child abuse. Things have changed. We do change. We
48:25accept the new normal what happens. I take your point with only one caveat. One thing which is
48:34unacceptable is violence. Think about today. I want each and every one of you to think about
48:39the hotel studio owner. Please think about him. It's very easy for us to sit in a TV studio
48:46and comment on the fine lines. He deserves compensation in my view. He should be given
48:51compensation. And remember, Devendra Fadnavis, when he was in the opposition, had defended
48:56Kangana Ranaut and said, follow the law of the land. The same Devendra Fadnavis, now in government,
49:02says it is the Shiv Sainiks, who defends the Shiv Sainiks and targets Kunal Kamra. Where you
49:09stand in Indian politics depends on where you sit. And that's part of the problem,
49:15just many of the problem. Yes, Tushar Gandhi, I'll give you a final word. 30 seconds.
49:20You know, they sent a bulldozer to the venue where Kunal Kamra shot his show. But on Juhu
49:27Beach, there's a prominent illegal building which has been declared illegal and demolition orders
49:35have been issued. But because it belongs to Narayan Raleigh, the bulldozer doesn't find the
49:40road there. That is selective vandalism. That is selective politics. That is politics of Vendetta.
49:46And that has to be opposed strongly. No excuses can be made. I'm sorry, but most of these people
49:54over here have been making apologies to condone violence that can't be accepted.
49:59I agree with you entirely. Violence cannot be condoned. Whatever your provocation,
50:04find a better way to express yourself. That is where the line has to be drawn. I want to see
50:11the Maharashtra government now compensating, compensating the hotel studio owner. You want
50:17to build brand Mumbai, brand Maharashtra, brand India, walk the talk and really show that law and
50:23order is being maintained by you and not being outsourced to street thugs who are being sponsored
50:31by a political party. Think about it. The top global story, a huge security breach and a blunder
50:38by the Trump administration. Several top U.S. national security officials in the Republican
50:43administration. Defense Secretary Pete Hicks said, texted war plans for military strikes in
50:49Yemen to a group chat. The problem, that chat ended up including a journalist,
50:55a national secret is now out in the public domain. Here's a report.
50:59The U.S. war plans for upcoming military strikes in Yemen were texted to a group chat
51:17in a secure messaging app two hours before it was to be carried out.
51:22Top national security officials for President Donald Trump, including his defense secretary,
51:27were part of the group chat, and it also included the editor-in-chief for the magazine,
51:32The Atlantic, Jeffrey Goldberg. He was invited in the group by none other than Mike Walsh,
51:38U.S. national security advisor. They're going back and forth. A lot of resentment directed at
51:45European allies, the United States, the United States, the United States, the United States,
51:50at European allies, the United States, which obviously enhanced the credibility of this chain,
51:55because everybody in the chain sounded like the people I know who are in this administration.
52:01Nevertheless, it wasn't until Saturday that I was reasonably certain that this wasn't a hoax,
52:06that I had actually mistakenly been included in a conversation of the principals committee,
52:13essentially the leaders of the national security community, including the head of the CIA,
52:17in this discussion of whether the Houthis should be attacked in Yemen.
52:26Trump's defense secretary, Pete Hexeth, posted details of the attack on March 15.
52:32A couple of hours later, the U.S. began launching a series of airstrikes
52:36against Houthi targets in Yemen.
52:39Honestly, my reaction was, I think I've discovered a massive security breach
52:49in the United States national security system, which is to say, it's almost automatically true
52:56that if the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic is being given access to this kind of information,
53:03weapons systems and packages and timing and weather in Yemen and all kinds of
53:09information about sequencing of particular events, then obviously there's a security breach.
53:17He left the group as soon as he realized that this group was not a hoax or AI-generated or a scam,
53:24but real. But to his surprise, there were no questions asked
53:28or doubts raised of his sudden disappearance from the chat group.
53:33As soon as Jeffrey Goldberg posted his story,
53:40chaos broke out. The U.S. defense secretary slammed him and his credibility,
53:46as well as denied posting any war report in the group.
53:50Can you share how your information about war plans against the Houthis in Yemen
53:56was shared with a journalist in The Atlantic? And were those details classified?
54:02So you're talking about a deceitful and highly discredited so-called journalist
54:09who's made a profession of peddling hoaxes time and time again to include the, I don't know,
54:16the hoaxes of Russia, Russia, Russia, or the fine people on both sides hoax,
54:22or suckers and losers hoax. So this is a guy that pedals in garbage. This is what he does.
54:32The U.S. National Security Council said in a statement that it was looking into how a
54:37journalist's number was added to the chain in the Signal group chat.
54:43In addition to the U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hexeth, it included Vice President J.D. Vance,
54:49Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Tulsi Gabbard,
54:52Trump's Director of National Intelligence, and National Security Advisor Mike Walz.
54:58Bureau Report, India Today.
55:28in Uttar Pradesh. Shops are offering heavy discounts and 1 plus 1 schemes.
55:35The reason is that the current liquor licenses expire on March 31st.
55:58The traders have urged the government to allow them to sell off their current stocks.
56:28Till the time UP government gives relief to vendors,
56:38it is happy hours for drinkers. Bureau Report, India Today.
56:45What should one say? Hick hick hurray. Or maybe if I say that,
56:50someone will get offended. Okay, let me leave you with our image of the day. The
56:54BJP today launched the Saugat-e-Modi initiative, which they claim is going to benefit 32 lakh
57:01underprivileged Muslims who will receive special kits to celebrate Eid. This includes food items,
57:08clothes, vermicelli, dates, dry fruits, and sugar. BJP says it's their way to reach out
57:15to the Muslim community ahead of Eid. That's a good sign. Maybe they could do more.
57:21That, of course, is the subject of a debate on another day. For now, those are good images to
57:27see. Festivals must be celebrated across communities. That's the spirit of India.
57:34Thanks for watching. You stay well, stay safe. Good night. Shubhratri. Jai Hind. Namaskar.
57:50you