Tim Burchett Probes Issue Of Improper Payments And Fraud

4 days ago

At a House Oversight Committee hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Rep. Tim Burchett (R-TN) questioned witnesses about improper payments and fraud.

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Transcript

00:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, ma'am, for sharing that story about your

00:04sister. I did not know that. That gave me a lot to think about.

00:08Ms. Kosciulek, is that correct? Did I get that close? You got Kwasi Nafumi and Tim

00:15Burchett up here. Nobody gets our names right, and I probably didn't get

00:18his name right, so let me ask you a question, ma'am, if I can see through

00:22this big head of hair right here in front of me. What are some of the key

00:27issues that prevented these agencies from prioritizing prevention of

00:31improper payments and fraud? And I wish you'd also talk a little bit about just

00:37human error, how that plays into this. Yeah, so there certainly can be human

00:43error, and I just want to clarify the fraud, to be sure, fraud is a big problem.

00:48The fraud numbers that we estimated over those years was about three to seven

00:54percent of the funding, but to be sure, as we noted, you know, any amount of fraud

01:03is money not going to the intended purpose. So some of the key issues, I

01:08think, that prevent folks from being able to effectively put the right

01:14controls in place does have to do with some data sharing, some access, having

01:21truly understanding the eligibility requirements, the data attributes that

01:29should be checked, and then having that right information to be able to do that

01:33checking, to make sure that the payments are valid, going to the right person, is

01:39really what's critical and can be some of the key challenges and issues that

01:42agencies face. The agencies in fiscal year 2024, they collectively

01:49estimated approximately $161.5 billion in improper payments. Do you think

01:54Congress can get to the point where we can stop that? I think the goal is to

01:59reduce that. You'll probably never get rid of the risk of fraud, it's innate in

02:04all programs, but there should be a concerted effort to have that as low as

02:09possible and have the right preventative controls in place to not leave so much

02:14money on the table to that. I guess in this case it's the original sin, so to

02:18speak. How many agencies and programs are using the GAO's fraud risk

02:24framework now, and why aren't they using it, the ones that aren't? You know, I

02:31don't know if we know the the true reason why not all of them are using it.

02:35We do certainly have a recommendation to Congress to require agencies to use that.

02:42We think it's a critical... And they're currently not required, they're not

02:47required to follow that? Not specifically. Okay, thank you. What can we

02:54do to enable that these agencies recover over payments or are they just gone? I

03:00always hear people say, oh we're gonna claw that back. I was in the legislature

03:03in Tennessee for 16 years and I never saw, I mean it's hook or crook, you know,

03:09it's a bogus corporation or something got money somehow or some criminal and

03:14they're in jail, they're not paying it back, they're getting 20 cents an hour

03:19stamping out license plates. And that's the challenge. In many cases it's not

03:26easy to get that money back. Okay, thank you. I need and I want to yield the rest

03:30of my time to my dear friend Mr. Mifumi, if that's all right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Tim Burchett Probes Issue Of Improper Payments And Fraud

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