The controversy around Justice Yashwant Varma deepened further as the Delhi High Court on Sunday vehemently denied that piles of cash were recovered from his residence following a fire incident in his storeroom last week.
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00:00Freak fire exposes a massive stash of cash.
00:18Multiple twists, turns and intrigue in the cash hall at a Delhi High Court judge's house.
00:24Burned notes were found at his residence by the Delhi Fire Department and the police while attending a fire call.
00:32Justice Verma tries conspiracy. The Supreme Court orders investigation.
00:43Center says wait for the SC probe.
00:46The court is investigating. Let the committee report come.
00:49The judge cash hall mystery is our top focus on India today.
00:58The Delhi High Court has shot off a letter to the Delhi Police Commissioner to obtain
01:02call detailed records and internet protocol detailed records of Justice Yashwant Verma's mobile phone
01:08for a period of the past six months and this after a large stash of cash
01:13was found in partially burnt sacks at his official residence in Delhi.
01:19The F company or the Foxtrot company of the 70th Battalion of the CRPF Central Reserve Police Force
01:26was deployed at his residence. Police have also been asked to furnish details of all security personnel,
01:33guards and staff deployed and employed in his house for the past six months.
01:39There is prima facie a discrepancy in the statement of Justice Verma
01:44and the security officials deployed at his residence.
01:47The Commissioner of Delhi Police informed the Honorable Chief Justice of the Delhi High Court
01:52that the storeroom is adjacent to the guardroom where the CRPF Battalion 70 F company is posted
02:01and that the storeroom used to be kept locked.
02:05Honorable Justice Verma had said that the room was unlocked
02:09and several people including CPWD had access to it.
02:13Will the truth ever be known? Will facts emerge?
02:18We get you all details of investigations so far.
02:21I'm Gaurav Sawant. Let's begin with our top story.
02:24On the night of March 14, a large stash of cash was discovered
02:39after a fire at Delhi High Court Justice Yashwant Verma's official residence.
02:45In a rare public disclosure, the Supreme Court uploaded reports, photographs and even videos
02:53regarding allegations of the recovery of burnt cash notes.
02:58Following an initial investigation by the Chief Justice of the Delhi High Court,
03:07the Supreme Court released the High Court's internal inquiry report on its website.
03:15The Supreme Court also uploaded videos and photographs
03:20which Delhi Police Commissioner Sanjay Arora shared with the court during investigations.
03:29Half burnt wads of currency notes were recovered from Justice Yashwant Verma's official residence.
03:40Just listen in to what the first responders said on ground.
03:50Imagine the magnitude of the stockpile of such burnt notes
03:54that even after 10 days, even on the Sunday morning,
03:57when the NDMC workers started cleaning up the process in the premises,
04:02they continued to find these kinds of burnt notes of the 500 notes.
04:06Now remember these numbers, the bulk of these notes were found by the police and the fire department.
04:11They all would have possibly the alphanumeric number codes
04:14and that will be very substantial for the investigative team
04:17to find out the source of withdrawal of this income.
04:35The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of India has formed a three judge probe panel.
04:42The panel will probe the source of the unaccounted cash.
04:48Who removed the burnt cash pile and details of stuff with access to the room where the cash was stashed.
04:59Justice Verma in his defence claimed a conspiracy.
05:03He denied any knowledge of cash in the outhouse.
05:08Justice Verma insisted the storeroom or the outhouse was accessible even to outsiders.
05:18Justice Verma has been explicitly asked not to delete any data from his mobile phone.
05:25Justice Yashwant Verma has published on his website that the hard cash found in his house is a matter of investigation.
05:41While the Supreme Court will wait for the probe panel report, the centre is keeping an eye on all developments.
05:49The Supreme Court is carrying out an investigation.
05:54Two Chief Justices of the Honourable High Court and one Judge of the High Court are involved.
06:03Let us wait for the committee report.
06:06Has the cash mountain found at a judge's house exposed the rot in India's judicial system?
06:15Bureau report, India Today.
06:20Caesar's wife has to be above suspicion and the short circuit at the official bungalow of the Delhi High Court Judge, Justice Yashwant Verma has lit a fire.
06:30The burning questions are of credibility, transparency and accountability in higher judiciary.
06:36Where did that large stash of cash come from?
06:39Where is that stash now?
06:41How did it disappear?
06:42How much is it?
06:44What transpired between the night of the fire on the 14th of March and facts appearing in public domain a week later?
06:51What explains the discrepancy in the statement made by Justice Verma and the security detail at his house?
06:57Was the storeroom locked or kept unlocked?
07:00There are many questions we are seeking answers to.
07:03Joining me on this special broadcast are some of the best legal minds in our country and a former top cop.
07:09KV Dhananjay, Diljit Singh Aluwalia.
07:13They join us to shed light on the legal aspect of investigations practiced at the Supreme Court.
07:20Dr. Vikram Singh is former DGP.
07:22Will talk to us about the probe ahead and Dr. Vikram Singh let me begin by asking you.
07:27Is it that that police constable with his mobile phone who let the cat out of the bag recording it on his mobile camera saying
07:34Mahatma Gandhi jal rahe hain or words to that effect.
07:39Is that clinching evidence of burning currency at Justice Verma's residence?
07:44Does that actually show that a cover up now is no longer possible?
07:50Good evening gentlemen. May I submit with the greatest of respect to all the institutions
07:55that what began on 14th of March, the holy day in all probability,
08:00has turned out to be some kind of such an embarrassment.
08:04Now, first it was currency notes found, all the leading daily news published that.
08:10Then the fire service chief says, no, nothing, no currency was recovered.
08:16Then there was a mode of denial. Then the transfer happened.
08:19Then the inquiry commission came that he was transferred.
08:22The transfer not because of the recovery of currency, but at the end of the day,
08:26something came out and I knew that something like this is bound to happen
08:29because the police and the fire service department, when they go for such incidents,
08:34there is not only a documented record, but also the police personnel do make a video clipping.
08:40And that video clip I predicted yesterday that this is likely to come out
08:45and it's going to be such an embarrassment. It's better that you go the right way,
08:49prove and conduct the inquiry in an appropriate manner.
08:54Now that the typical police lingo, dekho ji, Mahatma Gandhi jal rahe hain,
08:59and that is indicative and that of course has become vital now.
09:03It will be very difficult to of course.
09:05The actual provision is that a forensic evaluation of that video clip will be done
09:09and that must be done because it is such a sensitive matter.
09:12Then the origin of that video clip, why did it surface late last night and why not earlier?
09:18Why did the Delhi fire service chief say no currency was recovered or burned
09:23than to say no comments and then at the end of the day,
09:26you have egg on the face of very many people.
09:29There is egg on the face of several people, but you know, in the interest of transparency,
09:34the Delhi fire chief subsequently was quoted saying that he was misquoted
09:38by agencies saying that no currency was found.
09:41He had never said something like that, but allegations of a cover up between the 14th and the 20th.
09:48KV Dhananjay, is there merit that there was an attempted cover up
09:53or not to let the full information come out in public domain
09:56and facts came out only much, much later?
10:00Does that bring into doubt faith in higher judiciary?
10:04It's the higher judiciary that stands on trial today, sir.
10:08This is an extraordinary event to start with.
10:12This country has never seen anything like this in its 75 years of independence.
10:17Having said that, this is also a kind of an existential crisis
10:21for the credibility of the higher judiciary.
10:23You know, two days ago, after the news report,
10:27there certainly were some sections that were saying that this could be speculative
10:31and you will have to await for more information.
10:34And then the Supreme Court spoke about it.
10:37It said that this is again rumor.
10:40You know, if the matter stood there over the next three, four, five days,
10:44probably the issue would have died down completely.
10:47But I think we'll have to thank the Coliseum because the Coliseum took this extraordinary step
10:50of coming out with a video and also a photograph of the event.
10:55I think that goes to show that they are in fact exhibiting higher standard of conduct.
11:00So it's important for us to acknowledge it.
11:03Because if not for the photograph, I think,
11:06and if also not for the detailed release put out by the Supreme Court itself,
11:10I do not know if we would have this level of certainty in this discussion at all.
11:14So while as much as, you know, you need certainty to criticize a Coliseum,
11:18that very certainty is also something some would praise a Coliseum for.
11:23Having said that, in this matter, you will see that from the communication
11:28that's been put out by the Supreme Court itself,
11:31the Delhi High Court Chief Justice got to know about it at 4.50 p.m. on the 15th.
11:36Yes. And the communication from the Delhi High Court Chief Justice says
11:40that the debris in fact was removed on the morning of 15th.
11:43Yes. So which means the damage was already done.
11:45Now if you take the communication that has been put out by the Supreme Court
11:49as the only one or rather near full disclosure of the matter,
11:53notwithstanding the redaction, then you will see that probably the time
11:57when the Supreme Court Coliseum of that matter, the Delhi High Court Chief Justice
12:00got to know about it, the damage was already done.
12:02So and thereafter you will see certain developments.
12:05So I think it would be difficult to criticize the Coliseum for not doing enough.
12:09Okay. The damage has already been done.
12:11Perhaps before they initiate a criminal proceeding,
12:13they might have felt that it's important to have a due process
12:17to speak to the judge concerned, to take his version.
12:20Fair enough. And also to set up a committee.
12:22Now that the committee has been set up, what really matters is for the committee
12:25to expeditiously come out with its report.
12:27So let's take this step by step. Let's take this step by step.
12:31Diljit Singh Aluwalia, the video that has emerged in public domain,
12:35courtesy the Coliseum, does this then bring scope for registration of FIR
12:39and initiate a probe or as Mr. Dhananjay says,
12:43wait for the three-judge Coliseum panel to complete its probe and then proceed?
12:49So I would say that the preliminary report of the inquiry,
12:54in-house inquiry committee is very important before initiating any criminal proceeding
13:00because there are more ramifications than one here.
13:04They are in the best position to see whether prima facie there is
13:07any offence which has been committed at the end of the inquiry.
13:12And if yes, there is a requirement of registration of FIR entrusting the CBI.
13:17That is the first part.
13:19Second point which is important here is that this incident is being touted
13:27by many to point out the flaws which are there in the Coliseum system,
13:33in the appointment of the judges.
13:35But we are forgetting one important thing,
13:38that this is the same Coliseum which has given many, many great judges.
13:42And this is the same Coliseum.
13:45You can't have the government of the day appoint the judges.
13:48Now it seems to be taking that kind of a colour that NGAC has been knocked off
13:54and today we are in a situation wherein a judge has been caught with so much of currency.
13:59That is why the Coliseum system is bad.
14:01And the Coliseum system also came under a lot of pressure, I would say.
14:06Initially they talked about the transfer, subsequently they denied that
14:11the transfer was something in the contemplation prior and it is not as a result of this.
14:16And from the papers that we are seeing, the transfer was something
14:20which is a consequence of this particular event.
14:23No, but that also brings the thinking of the Coliseum system with due respect
14:28in question, if a judge is not fit to be a judge in Delhi High Court,
14:34why should he be a judge in the Allahabad High Court
14:37and isn't the bar their right to ask, are we a dustman?
14:41Dr. Vikram Singh, can anyone dare to enter the house of a sitting High Court justice
14:47protected by jawans of the Foxtrot company of the 70th battalion of CRPF
14:52except those authorised to do so?
14:54Is there then merit in the contention that the storeroom was open to all
14:58and everyone could have had access to it?
15:00The CRPF insists that it was under lock and key.
15:04Does that bring into doubt the statement made by Justice Verma or the CRPF?
15:09Gauravji, you are more security conscious than I would ever be.
15:13You have seen Kashmir, you have seen the whole of security in the country
15:16and yes, a person can think of venturing into the residence of an honourable judge
15:21unless he has suicidal tendencies, he would not even look that way.
15:25He would not even look that way.
15:27And the Foxtrot company of the CRPF is armed with automatic and semi-automatic weapons.
15:32There is no question of anybody venturing into the house.
15:35And to say that yes, anybody could have possible access to it,
15:39well, then nothing could be farther from truth or even more absurd than that.
15:43The fact of the matter is, if the storeroom belongs to me
15:46and I am paying the rent of the government, I am jolly well responsible for the contents,
15:49upkeep and also the safety and that is why the CRPF guard of the Foxtrot company
15:53is there to ensure, sanitize and safeguard the premises.
15:57And then to top it all, you will see in times to come, there will be CCTV footages also.
16:02There will be also guest entry and exit entry registers also.
16:06There are so many things that will come ahead.
16:08And if there is a fair inquiry, there is a possibility of an approver also saying
16:14who came, who stayed and who left.
16:17If there is a fair inquiry, so there still is doubt.
16:19Diljit Singh Ahluwalia, there still is doubt whether we will get to know the truth.
16:24Because look at Justice Verma's response.
16:26It gives an impression that the storeroom was freely accessible to others
16:31including, if I quote from the statement, from the back wicker gate entry.
16:36The police commissioner clearly told the Chief Justice of the Delhi High Court
16:40that the storeroom is adjacent to the guard room and used to be kept locked.
16:47Well, I think that seems to be a very preposterous kind of a hypothesis
16:53which has been advanced by him.
16:55Because on 15th morning, whatever were the burnt remnants of the notes have been removed.
17:01And on 15th in the night, along with the registrar, he went to the room
17:06and they basically used the torchlight of the phones to see the thing
17:11and he said, where is anything?
17:12Now, that can't be the basis, of course, what is falling from the panel right now
17:20that there is a requirement of an investigation and once there is an investigation
17:24all these facets are going to come out.
17:26But all these facets are also going to come out in the inquiry.
17:29Now, that is one aspect. Now, let me be the devil's advocate here for a second.
17:33There is something which is known as a presumption of innocence.
17:36That presumption of innocence does not die for a judge.
17:38I mean, I get a bad feel the way this entire incident is snowballing into an attack on the collegium system
17:46on the NJAC having been set aside by the Supreme Court.
17:51I mean, it is not too much to think if some interested quarters put two Boris along with notes there
17:58and suddenly people know there are notes there.
18:01One second, people know that there are notes there and then that is the one which is torched
18:05and this entire thing can be stated. I am saying it is not something which is not impossible.
18:11There is a requirement of investigation, an independent investigation.
18:15The only source of me saying so is the fact that the collegium is repeatedly coming under attack
18:22by some quarters. Everybody is trying to malign the entire judiciary.
18:27There are judges who are handling 500 matters a day.
18:30There are judges who are hearing final matters at 6 o'clock, 7 o'clock, getting up at 2 o'clock in the morning.
18:37Just because of one incident, every person has to be going into hiding.
18:41All the judges go into hiding.
18:43Dr. Vikram Singh, you want to quickly respond? That's a very pertinent point you raise.
18:49Dr. Vikram Singh also wants to respond and Mr. K.V. Dhananjay also.
18:52There cannot be two rule books if a constable can be dismissed for disproportionate assets
18:58of 10,000 rupees or a position of 200 rupees. I think the law applies to everyone.
19:04We hold the judiciary and the respected and the learned judges in the highest of esteem.
19:09All the more reason, as you said, in your opening, the Caesar's wife has to be above suspicion.
19:13Nobody has a right and that would include the person charged just now of any misdemeanor.
19:18And if there is any misdemeanor, that has to be thoroughly inquired.
19:21There is no question of anybody trying to bail him out more so in the light of such weak and absurd defenses.
19:28Okay. Mr. Dhananjay, your take on this. You've heard both Mr. Diljit Aluwalia's contention.
19:36You've heard Dr. Vikram Singh. Also the question, a judge would know if currency or a, you know,
19:43the police should know that if currency is partially burnt on the 14th night,
19:48on 15th morning, where did it disappear? How did it disappear?
19:51Is that evidence in a case that that just disappeared?
19:55You know, eventually there should be a fire in this case. There should be a criminal investigation.
20:02And the criminal investigation will uncover the sequence of events and also what happened to the burnt money.
20:09It's, you know, when the police, when the fire police come into a residence to douse the fire,
20:14they don't have the authority to remove any material and then take it with them because that would then amount to stealing.
20:19So they seem to have made a note of it and reported to different authorities.
20:24And eventually it must have reached the Delhi Police Commissioner,
20:28who then called up the Chief Justice of the Delhi High Court to report it, I think, much later.
20:33That's at 4.50 p.m. on 15th, by which time the money had already disappeared.
20:39So it's extremely important to identify what happened to that money that these officers seem to have noticed.
20:44Now, while the judge in question, Justice Ashwant Verma, is of course entitled to presumption of innocence
20:51and is also entitled to all the defense that is already taken,
20:54what the Supreme Court Collegium is doing is to simply make sure that before a criminal proceeding is initiated,
20:59which on the facts of this case, I think, are bound to be initiated,
21:03that there is a due diligence.
21:06And I think what these three judge member committee will simply do is to engage in the due diligence.
21:10But the due diligence by its very nature is not going to answer what happened to the money in question.
21:16And, you know, in the strange circumstances of this case,
21:19it would be difficult to think that the fire police had some kind of an obligation to take it with them
21:25or then to make an inventory of it and all that.
21:28Because that's not how they operate.
21:30It would be impossible for them to perform their duties.
21:32Every place where they go to douse fire, they make inventory of every burnt item.
21:36So this, I think, would be a strange circumstance where the credibility of the judiciary is being tested.
21:43And the NJIC and then the Collegium, I think that debate is certainly for another day.
21:48Nobody, you know, can seriously dispute that the Collegium's functioning
21:52in terms of appointment of judges is not satisfactory at all.
21:55It absolutely is not satisfactory and I think this event is not really the time to discuss that.
22:00This event is a time to discuss on what steps can be done to make sure
22:03that there is a due investigation here.
22:06Because after the Collegium put out the evidence of photograph and the video,
22:11you know, the defense put out by the judge, I think, will look really very weak.
22:16But that's not to say that just because there would be an investigation,
22:19that also means that there would be an extremely nice prospect of conviction
22:23because, you know, this is a case of disproportionate wealth
22:27and then money recovered is everything in the special facts of this case.
22:29It's like someone being charged with murder but then nobody knows where the dead body is.
22:34Or for that matter, nobody can give credible evidence about the person being alive at some point of time.
22:39So, investigation of course must happen but unfortunately, I think due to these strange events,
22:45I am not very sure if, you know, we are going to see a robust prosecution here in this case.
22:51That's a very big point you are making, sir. Dr. Vikram Singh, do you also see that way?
22:56Because where is the dead body as anyone would ask in a murder case?
23:02Where is that evidence? Where has it disappeared from the 14th?
23:05Yes, there are some images, you know, that are caught on camera.
23:10But where is that camera? Who was that constable?
23:13Is that footage still there? Has it been passed on on multiple handsets?
23:17Does that weaken the link and chain of evidence, sir?
23:20Learned Mr. Dhananjay has shed enough light on the entire incident
23:23and has balanced both the arguments pro and cons.
23:27It is very evenly balanced.
23:29Now to say the matter in which the case has turned out to be defense, contradiction,
23:34then going back again and suddenly last night you have the release of the videos and all the evidence.
23:39Firstly, the Chief Fire Officer says that there was no recovery.
23:43The third version is that no, he was misquoted.
23:47Then there was no allegation against the Honorable Judge.
23:49Then he said the transfer was routine.
23:51Then suddenly he said that the release of the evidence of the video,
23:55evidence in any respect of any circumstantial evidence,
23:59will have to wait through forensics, ballistics and IT experts.
24:02In this case, the video obviously will have to be weighed, evaluated.
24:06It is a serious matter, a sensitive matter.
24:08Therefore, the entire policing and investigation of the investigators will see to it
24:13that the best international practices of forensics are put into practice
24:16and ensure that the video is undoctored, the voice is matched.
24:20And the voice is matched.
24:22Let me tell you, the first task is who said Gandhi ji jal gaye, Mahatma Gandhi jal gaye.
24:26And it is perfectly doable where there is a will, there is a way.
24:29In 24 hours I can say.
24:31Then there are multiple flaws in the investigation procedure.
24:34Inventory memo, seizure memo, if the currency notes were burnt,
24:37why was not it displayed in the well spread out and disclosed recovery memo
24:42that was displayed to everyone.
24:44I am sure you must also be having that copy.
24:46That is a flaw.
24:48If it was collusion or complicity, then again it is punishable.
24:51Destruction of evidence is also a crime.
24:53A fresh case has to be registered.
24:55Therefore, there are multiple dimensions.
24:57But I can say the overwhelming and incontrovertible evidence is there.
25:01If where there is a will, you can reach to the conclusion
25:04in a record time of maybe in about 15 working days.
25:07You know, and Mr. Aluwalia, nobody questions the integrity of our learned judges.
25:13The fact that the entire nation has so much faith in them.
25:16If there is a black sheep, then that black sheep must be weeded out
25:22from the system in a very transparent manner by themselves
25:27so that there is accountability.
25:30So, you know, because they are working hard and because they are working so well,
25:34nobody should ask questions also cannot be an argument.
25:37Can it, sir?
25:39Nobody is saying that the questions cannot be asked.
25:42You are absolutely right.
25:43The Caesar's wife has to be above suspicion.
25:46But Caesar's wife is also entitled to due process.
25:49Yes.
25:51Caesar's wife cannot be condemned unheard.
25:53There is a procedure which has been contemplated.
25:55And the Honorable Chief Justice of India has initiated an in-house inquiry
26:00not as an arbitrary procedure.
26:02He is bound by the law declared by the Supreme Court in 2014
26:06that in such instances there has to be an in-house inquiry.
26:08The inquiry will give an opportunity of hearing to the delinquent judge.
26:14They will see the material.
26:16Thereafter they will make a recommendation to the Chief Justice of India.
26:20Now here, interesting point is that everybody up the hierarchy of the police
26:26knows that there were notes there.
26:28Notes were burning.
26:30They take videos and thereafter they don't seal that room.
26:33They don't seal those stacks.
26:35They just go away from there.
26:36And next morning these stacks go missing.
26:39And now we are saying, well, it seems that the judge is the one
26:43who has destroyed the evidence also.
26:45What was the investigative agency doing there?
26:47Why did they leave it unattended?
26:49Dr. Vikram Singh, is that a fair point?
26:52That the moment information was known about cash burning
26:57and the police had reached there, should they have done something?
27:01Gauravji, I think I said in my opening remarks also
27:04that there are multiple flaws in the procedure itself.
27:08In the preparation of the recovery memo, if the currency notes were there,
27:11even if they were burned, there should have been proper videography
27:14and preparation of a recovery memo.
27:16That is a flaw.
27:18But that again, a fresh case of investigation, a case can be registered
27:21for destruction of evidence and compromising the evidence.
27:23That does not vitiate the entire process of investigating the larger picture.
27:28Therefore, one part is destruction and compromise.
27:30And you would understand very well what are the causes and motive
27:34of compromising the evidence.
27:36Obviously, it is no fairy whispered into the ears of the lower functionaries
27:40of the police department and there is so much of pressure.
27:43The consequences and the results and the consequences are in front of all of us.
27:48Flip-flop, statement changing every 48 hours and then recovery is being made
27:53but not disclosed.
27:55When the chips were down, I mean, obviously, you would understand
27:58under what circumstances. Initially, there was no disclosure of evidence.
28:02Then suddenly, information being disclosed in a fast-forward mode.
28:06Therefore, everybody understands what are the dynamics of concealment
28:10and what are the dynamics of disclosure.
28:12What was happening between 15th and the 20th?
28:14And Mr. Dhananjay, the video sent by Delhi Police Commissioner
28:17to the Chief Justice clearly shows that burning stash.
28:20Isn't the onus now on Justice Verma to explain how the cash was in his storeroom
28:25in a protected house?
28:28After all, it's a house that's protected by the CRPF
28:31and not a railway platform where anybody could have come and gone.
28:35Well, you know, that calls into question presumption.
28:40Now, the Prevention of Corruption Act does not carry that presumption at all.
28:43The Money Laundering Act, the Prevention of Money Laundering Act carries that presumption.
28:46Money laundering may not be attracted here because the money apparently
28:50is not converted into anything.
28:52Apparently, it seems to have been destroyed.
28:54So, Money Laundering Act is not invoked here.
28:57I think the judge has taken all the defense that he would even…
29:00Okay.
29:02On the night of 14th at around 11.30 pm when there was this fire,
29:06he was not in station and he was away with his wife in Madhya Pradesh
29:10and he returned on the evening of 15th.
29:13And the communication put out by the Supreme Court shows that
29:17somebody removed the debris on the morning of 15th.
29:20So, when people discovered this note, the judge was not in the house.
29:26And when the debris was removed from the house, the judge was not in the house.
29:30So, that makes it a very, very difficult case for conviction.
29:34It probably is a great case for investigation.
29:36But I think the investigation has to begin ASAP.
29:39And it's important for the committee that has been appointed by the coalition
29:42to come out with its report ASAP.
29:44Because the public is watching it and then we cannot really, you know,
29:47preserve the public confidence if even in a case like this where photographs have come out.
29:53Now, there is a reason why the photo will stick in the mind of the public for a very long time.
29:57It's a case of money, real money being burned.
30:00In a country where money is of course worshipped as Lord Lakshmi.
30:05So, this image is going to remain in the mind of the people
30:08and therefore it's in everyone's best interest that the Collegium, you know,
30:12initiates criminal prosecution as soon as possible.
30:14And what is being done of course is mandatory, is required under the law.
30:19But again, time is of essence here.
30:21Because all said and done, it's important to notice that…
30:24Time is of essence you say. Dr. Vikram Singh, closing comments.
30:27Delhi police are seeking CDR and IPDR of Justice Verma.
30:32Is it just him or all those who live or work under that roof,
30:38the guest register, is that likely to shed any light
30:41or is this just going through motions of an investigation?
30:45Gauravji, this would be an important part of any investigation planned.
30:49To understand, analyse the CDRs, messages received, messages sent
30:53and also the most frequently called numbers and the most frequently received numbers.
30:57And not that of the honourable accused but also of everybody in the family
31:02or the domestic helps and the drivers.
31:04And if at all there is a suspicious number which was used by the honourable judge
31:07that also will have to be scrutinised in the same manner as if it belonged to me.
31:12Suppose I am the charge, then if I am using a particular number not registered in my name
31:17but belongs to somebody who is my own confidant, a man of whom I trust, then that also.
31:21Then if I have installed fresh apps that have a certain degree
31:25of being absolutely confidential and secret.
31:28Like I would not like to name the apps, I mean giving wrong ideas to youngsters
31:31because it's a very popular channel. But if I have four or five such apps installed
31:34that are known as rogue apps, then that also requires a lot of explanation and investigation.
31:39These are essential parts of any investigation.
31:42Okay, and that is why the honourable justice has also been requested
31:45not to delete any data from his mobile phone.
31:50Does that extend to others who were under that roof?
31:53We will track that story very closely.
31:55The last 30 seconds that I have, Mr. Aluwalia, can I just ask you,
31:59does this not then bring into question the issue you had also raised?
32:01Whether it's judicial accountability, whether it's transparency, promotions, postings, elevations,
32:07how can that be insulated one from external pressure and yet remain above suspicion?
32:13So, we already right now in the judiciary have robust systems.
32:19Although these are not free from faults, but these are robust in their own right.
32:24Judges are being selected. There is a lot of criticism with regard to selection of the judges.
32:28There is a lot of criticism with regard to uncle syndrome and all that.
32:32Well, I think this opportunity is being misused by a lot of people to attack the judiciary,
32:37to attack the collegium, which is working perfectly fine.
32:41There might be aberrations. This is a test, this is one such test
32:46where I think the collegium has come out with flying colours.
32:49I think this is too much of a transparency wherein they have released everything to the media.
32:54Everything, including the letters written by the Chief Justice of Delhi High Court.
33:00Portions redacted. Portions redacted.
33:03Portions redacted only with regard to the names.
33:05You don't know the names of the personal secretary.
33:08You don't require to know who the personal secretary is.
33:10But this much of transparency, I don't know whether it is in the right interest of the accused and the system.
33:17But alright, that's a very very bold step taken by the collegium.
33:20I don't think those detractors of the collegium system should use this opportunity
33:25to attack the collegium, attract the system.
33:28My heart really bleeds, absolutely bleeds for the judges
33:33whose prestige I think is on the line here.
33:36Like I told you, there are judges…
33:38And perhaps that is why, perhaps that is why they need to ensure
33:42that there is transparent investigation and accountability fixed as quickly as possible.
33:47We will be tracking that story very very closely.
33:50Mr. Dhananjay, Mr. Alu Ali and Dr. Vikram Singh as always for joining me here on India Today.
33:55Many thanks.