In an exclusive interview with India Today TV's Consulting Editor Rajdeep Sardesai, former Attorney General of India Mukul Rohatgi shared his views on Delhi High Court judge Justice Yashwant Varma's case, his transfer to Allahabad High Court and the probe in the case.
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00:00Mukul Rothgi is one of the country's distinguished senior advocates, former Attorney General
00:05of the country. Appreciate your joining us, Mr. Rothgi. I want to ask you,
00:11what is your view? Do you believe that this case will be swept under the carpet as some fear
00:17or is it moving in the right direction?
00:22It's a serious issue. I think it is moving in the right direction.
00:28The Chief Justice of India has acted with alacrity by appointing an in-house committee
00:37as soon as possible. There has been no dragging of feet. The only puzzling thing which I have
00:47been saying on the different channels in the last two, three days is, where is the recovery of the
00:54cash? There seems to be no recovery. Either it has been completely swept away. Where are the
01:04half burnt notes? That is the evidence. Primary evidence has gone away. What was the police doing
01:12when it reached there? Why did it not seize the evidence? Why did it not make a panch nama
01:18with two independent witnesses? If there is a huge amount of cash, some cash must have been
01:24unburnt or semi burnt. How did income tax not come into the picture? These are very worrying things.
01:33How is it that when the Chief Justice sent a person the next day, did he see any cash? Did
01:41he not see any cash? Please understand, you can't have a murder without a body being
01:48found. The second thing which I want to say is, see transfer or no transfer. The correct thing was
01:58that judicial work was withdrawn because you can't have a person in a doubtful situation sitting on
02:04the bench dispensing justice. But the transfer in any case has to be first accepted by the
02:11Government of India. This transfer does not take effect on its own. God knows what view the
02:17government will take. But the transfer, another mystifying thing is that the Supreme Court is on
02:25record saying that this transfer has nothing to do with the in-house inquiry. I am baffled to hear
02:33that. According to me, it has everything to do with this episode and this inquiry. And in fact,
02:40the transfer, according to me, is clearly punitive. It is not for any other reason,
02:49except that the judge should maybe kind of taught a lesson and so on and so forth.
02:58You're making important news points that I'm going to ask my producer to flash on the screen
03:02because the fact is, and I want clarity on this from you Mr. Rothgi, you're saying the police
03:07panchnama, why was that not put in place? You're saying where is the actual evidence which could
03:14be half burnt or some notes that were not burnt? You're telling me that you're surprised that the
03:20income tax has still not given a statement on where they stand. Is there an income tax inquiry?
03:25Now, there are two views Mr. Rothgi. One is the judge himself is claiming this could be a
03:30conspiracy against him that he had nothing to do with the cash that was found in his house.
03:34The other is that this is the tip of the iceberg, that this cash could be part of a wider net,
03:40which could involve the judge. We don't know. It would be unfair to target him at this stage. But
03:45either way, you're saying that the police and the income tax and the fire department
03:51also need to come clean. Am I correct? And come public with their statements.
03:56Absolutely correct. Because we have had two contradictory statements of the fire department
04:01in two days. So, what is your suspicion? What is your suspicion Mr. Rothgi? Was someone trying
04:10to protect the judge? Or is this a classic case where we're not being told the entire truth?
04:18I don't know Rajdeep, but all the facts are not on the table. If you were to ask me,
04:25let's say one side of the coin is that huge amounts of money is found in a judge's house.
04:33That ipso facto damns the judge and a very serious explanation is required from him.
04:41The other part of the coin is, where are those notes in four gunny bags?
04:48Who brought them? Was it genuine money or was it fake money? Who would burn so much money
04:59and keep it or allow it to be burned and keep it in an outhouse? Everybody puts even a hundred
05:07rupee note in one's pocket. How could anybody keep it in an outhouse which may be accessed by
05:13different people? And the judge wasn't there that day. He arrived after 24 hours.
05:21He says that there was no money. Actually, the only evidence we have is that blurred video
05:29which you are showing on the screen just now, which also has half burnt or semi burnt notes
05:34I can see on the screen. Sir, but that video Mr. Rothgi has been put out by the Supreme Court
05:41itself. So, the Supreme Court itself. So, therefore, I wonder is someone trying to fix
05:46the judge in your view? Is that a real fear? I don't know. So, these are very puzzling issues.
05:52If somebody wants to fix the judge, would you burn 20 crores of good currency or was it fake
06:00currency or was it a mix? That one bag may have real currency, the others may have fake currency.
06:07You require a forensic probe. Now, no probe is possible because everything has gone away.
06:13The first thing is the commissioner of police must explain why was not the half burnt note seized
06:21or if not seized by him, income tax should have been called. What has happened to that kind of
06:29thing? What is the report that he gave to the Home Minister as to what he found? Is it at variance
06:36with the fire department? And to top it all, today's newspaper says that the Safai Karamcharis
06:44of the NDMC found evidence of burnt notes or semi burnt notes in the raddi or the rubbish
06:53mixed with leaves because this is spring, onset of spring, all along the footpath outside the house.
07:04I don't know what is really happening.
07:09Sir, from what you're saying, look, would I be right in saying Mr. Rodhki that judges
07:14themselves through an in-house inquiry cannot become police investigators.
07:20These loopholes that you're pointing out clearly therefore require a multi-agency probe, not just
07:25a judicial in-house inquiry. Do you therefore believe that there should be a SIT form which
07:30should include income tax, include police and a time-bound probe be put in place?
07:36You are right, but there are some stumbling blocks there. The law requires this in-house
07:43informal inquiry by three judges which has been ordered. Let us hope they do their job in the
07:50next two weeks because this cannot brook any delay. On one side, evidence is disappearing.
07:57The judge, if he is guilty, he must be wrapped for moral turpitude. If the judge is innocent,
08:05his reputation has become mud, it should be cleared at the earliest. So, let's hope
08:10they give a verdict as soon as possible. But as you said, there cannot be the end of it.
08:16For the simple reason, you require the police, maybe the income tax, maybe a forensic department.
08:23You have to examine the CDR of the judge for the last three months. You have to examine CCTVs. You
08:30need specialists to do that. A judge can't examine a CDR and come to a conclusion and examine a CCTV
08:37whether the CCTV is functional, whether it is fudged, whether every video is not ipso facto
08:45evidence. It has to be proved in accordance with law that there is a proper video, it's not a
08:51doctored video, etc. So, you require a full-blown inquiry. Now, for a full-blown inquiry,
08:58you require the registration of a first information report. A first information
09:03report and investigation in the case of higher judiciary can only be with the consent of the
09:08Chief Justice of India. Because as you understand, judges are very vulnerable to millions of
09:14complaints every day. Because every disgruntled person will make a complaint. I know for a fact,
09:2099.9% complaints are rubbish. But that's why you require one more layer.
09:28Can I therefore ask you in conclusion, as you say you require one more layer,
09:32do you believe this is the tip of the iceberg? That what has happened is actually exposing what
09:37is one of the worst kept secrets. Some believe that there is corruption in the higher judiciary.
09:43Can we say that now with any conclusiveness? I don't think you can say it today. Because as I
09:50told you, there are strong points on either side. We don't know what is the final conclusion till
09:58at least we get a report of these three judges. It will throw some light and then one will decide
10:04how to go forward. But undoubtedly, it's a sad day in the life of the judiciary
10:11that these things are happening. The earlier we get to the bottom of it, it's better.
10:16And let me end by saying, the real way out is to have a structured revamp of these kind of inquiries
10:25and the process of impeachment, which is virtually impossible. Because the final step
10:31is impeachment. Impeachment has not happened in the last 75 years of the Constitution.
10:36You have to have a better system. Impeachment is not the correct system.
10:42I will still therefore ask you, and I will be going to judges in a moment
10:46as to whether impeachment actually works or not. But do you believe, therefore,
10:53that Justice Verma should not be assigned any cases? He's been transferred to Allahabad,
10:58the lawyers there are threatening to go on a strike. Do you believe he should not be assigned
11:02any cases till this matter is clear? Yes, I don't think he should be assigned any work,
11:07at least till the report of the three judges ordered by the Chief Justice of India. And I
11:12must say at the end, and I've said it earlier, full marks to the Chief Justice of India for
11:19making all this transparent. At least we have seen the video. We have seen the report of the
11:25Chief Justice of the High Court. We have seen the explanation of the judge. Normally, this would not
11:30have come out on public domain a few months or a few steps later. But at least the Supreme Court,
11:38for the first time, has been more than transparent. And I say kudos to the Chief Justice of India.
11:44Okay, I'm going to leave it there, Mukul Rothgi. I appreciate you joining us and speaking with such
11:49clarity on the issue, saying that this cannot be just dealt with as a single agency probe.
11:54It really requires now multiple layers to operate for the truth to come out. Thank you very much.