The enduring accusations of President Donald Trump’s supposed collusion with Russia used to be a stain on the reputations of Republicans who backed him, but more and more, it is the Democrats who desperately want the story to die.
Unfortunately for them, that just isn’t happening. Tonight, one of the chief reasons for the accusations, former MI6 officer Christopher Steele, appears on Uncensored to face his extremely passionate detractors. Then, Piers Morgan debates the eye-watering decline of Tesla stock prices and the broken ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.
Joining Piers for these debates are co-host of The Rest Is Politics and former communication director under Trump Anthony Scaramucci, host of Social Contract with Joe Walsh and former Presidential candidate Joe Walsh, co-host of Steve Bannon's War Room Natalie Winters, author of Provoked: How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine Scott Horton.
Our last video on US politics: https://youtu.be/F62-V9j5OSs
Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by:
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00:48 - Piers’ Monologue
06:20 - Will Trump end these two wars? Anthony Scaramucci gives his take
11:30 - Christopher Steele on Trump and a ‘pro-Russian Ukraine peace plan’
15:08 - Scott Horton on Trump’s policy mirroring Henry Kissinger’s advice - to recreate the Russian-Sino split
22:00 - Joe Walsh on Trump’s phone calls with Putin and Zelensky
25:50 - Natalie Winters accuses Christopher Steele of smearing “President Trump as a Russian asset”
30:00 - Elon Musk facing backlash
35:00 - How careful do Elon Musk and Trump have to be now?
39:29 - “You can’t be America first and Israel instead, its gotta be one or the other” Scott Horton on the war in Gaza
49:00 - The scale of what Hamas did
52:00 - Natalie Winters on putting America first amidst the 2 wars
55:20 - October 7th changed everything for Israel
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#trump #russia #putin #piersmorgan #piersmorganinterview #piersmorgandebate
Unfortunately for them, that just isn’t happening. Tonight, one of the chief reasons for the accusations, former MI6 officer Christopher Steele, appears on Uncensored to face his extremely passionate detractors. Then, Piers Morgan debates the eye-watering decline of Tesla stock prices and the broken ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.
Joining Piers for these debates are co-host of The Rest Is Politics and former communication director under Trump Anthony Scaramucci, host of Social Contract with Joe Walsh and former Presidential candidate Joe Walsh, co-host of Steve Bannon's War Room Natalie Winters, author of Provoked: How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine Scott Horton.
Our last video on US politics: https://youtu.be/F62-V9j5OSs
Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by:
Beam: Visit https://ShopBeam.com/PIERS and use code PIERS for up to 40% off
Field of Greens: Visit https://BrickHouseNutrition.com/PIERS & use code PIERS for 20% off your first order
00:48 - Piers’ Monologue
06:20 - Will Trump end these two wars? Anthony Scaramucci gives his take
11:30 - Christopher Steele on Trump and a ‘pro-Russian Ukraine peace plan’
15:08 - Scott Horton on Trump’s policy mirroring Henry Kissinger’s advice - to recreate the Russian-Sino split
22:00 - Joe Walsh on Trump’s phone calls with Putin and Zelensky
25:50 - Natalie Winters accuses Christopher Steele of smearing “President Trump as a Russian asset”
30:00 - Elon Musk facing backlash
35:00 - How careful do Elon Musk and Trump have to be now?
39:29 - “You can’t be America first and Israel instead, its gotta be one or the other” Scott Horton on the war in Gaza
49:00 - The scale of what Hamas did
52:00 - Natalie Winters on putting America first amidst the 2 wars
55:20 - October 7th changed everything for Israel
Subscribe to stay up-to-date on all Uncensored content.
Follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on:
X: https://x.com/PiersUncensored
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/piersmorganuncensored/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/piersmorganuncensored
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@piersmorganuncensored
Follow Piers Morgan on:
X: https://x.com/piersmorgan
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/piersmorgan
#trump #russia #putin #piersmorgan #piersmorganinterview #piersmorgandebate
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00Your dossier caused a firestorm, obviously, when it came out.
00:04The Russians may have held blackmail video of Trump engaged in, you know,
00:09very unsavory activity with prostitutes and so on,
00:12which he's emphatically denied and for which no other evidence has ever emerged.
00:16And if it hadn't have been for Mr. Steele,
00:18then Trump would have been able to solve the problem in Ukraine then.
00:22This liar framed him essentially for treason.
00:26I'm amazed that this guy is willing to show his face in public right now.
00:29I really think that you represent probably the ultimate grifter
00:33in the American political space. Shame on you for the last decade trying to inject the idea
00:38that smearing President Trump as a Russian agent or a Russian asset
00:42is somehow going to take the MAGA movement.
00:47Elon Musk's SpaceX rescues stricken astronauts from outer space
00:50as protesters attack Teslas and the courts battle Doge here on planet Earth.
00:56Israel launches a brutal assault on Gaza as the U.S. broken ceasefire collapses.
01:00So plenty to debate, but we begin with a fragile breakthrough in Ukraine.
01:04You may not have enjoyed the way President Trump has gone about forcing an end to the war.
01:08You may not think it's fair that Ukraine will lose whole chunks of its country
01:12in any final settlement, although Putin has been brought to the table
01:15without any repercussions for his war crimes.
01:18I don't think any of that is fair either.
01:20But the brutal truth is that the war must end.
01:22The president's marathon phone call with the Russian dictator,
01:25which has now been followed by another long call with President Zelensky today,
01:29has brought that one small tentative step closer to reality.
01:33The second brutal truth is that the Biden administration had no plan to end the war.
01:37Their strategy was to give Ukraine just enough to survive, but never enough to win.
01:42The obvious result was a forever war costing billions of dollars and thousands of lives.
01:47Something had to break the deadlock.
01:49Trump said he would, and now he appears to be doing just that.
01:52You can give credit for that while reserving judgment on what happens next.
01:56But Trump's critics can't see past the narrative that he is Putin's puppet.
02:01For the vast majority of his first presidency,
02:03the biggest story in U.S. politics was Russiagate,
02:05the story that Trump colluded with the Kremlin to win power.
02:08As claim after claim was disproven,
02:10critics shifted to the argument that Trump dislikes Putin more.
02:13It came up again in his interview with Laura Ingraham on Fox News last night.
02:17The criticism that you've heard since really 2015
02:21is that you have more in common with Vladimir Putin than you do with globalist leaders,
02:26maybe some NATO leaders, and in this case with Zelensky.
02:31You're both nationalists.
02:33Zelensky is more of a globalist.
02:35How do you respond to that criticism?
02:37Well, I am a nationalist, but I'm a nationalist for the United States, not for anybody else.
02:43And it's interesting because there's nobody been tougher on Russia than me.
02:46I'm the one that pointed out Nord Stream 2, and I stopped it.
02:49Nord Stream is the biggest pipeline, I guess, in the world, taking care of all of Europe.
02:54And it was being built before I got there.
02:58And somehow they were on the way.
03:01It was going to be, and I stopped it.
03:02It was just stone cold dead.
03:04I stopped it in its tracks.
03:07Well, that is true.
03:08It's also true that Russia's invasion of Georgia,
03:10Russia's first occupation of eastern Ukraine,
03:12Russia's annexing of Crimea,
03:14and Russia's full-scale invasion all took place with a Democrat in the White House.
03:18And what about the whole big idea that Russia is Europe's problem to solve?
03:21This apparently dramatic shift in US foreign policy
03:23that has torched historic alliances.
03:25Well, that all began with this guy.
03:28Because a few months ago, when you were asked,
03:30what's the biggest geopolitical threat facing America, you said Russia.
03:34Not Al Qaeda.
03:35You said Russia.
03:36And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back
03:39because the Cold War has been over for 20 years.
03:43Well, to be fair, that was before Russian troops invaded and seized Crimea.
03:46So here's President Obama speaking a few weeks after that.
03:51The point is that there are always going to be bad things that happen around the world.
03:58With respect to Mr Romney's assertion that Russia is our number one geopolitical foe,
04:04the truth of the matter is that America's got a whole lot of challenges.
04:11Russia is a regional power.
04:16Russia's actions are a problem.
04:18They don't pose the number one national security threat to the United States.
04:24A regional European problem, not America's biggest concern.
04:27Sounds an awful lot like America first to me.
04:30Well, joining me now, the co-host of The Rest is Politics and former communication director
04:34under Donald Trump, Anthony Scaramucci, the host of Social Contract with Joe Walsh
04:38and former presidential candidate Joe Walsh, the co-host of Steve Bannon's War Room, Natalie
04:42Winters, and the author of Provoked, How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the
04:48Catastrophe in Ukraine, Scott Horton, and the former MI6 officer and author of The Steele
04:53Dossier, Christopher Steele also joins us.
04:55So thank you to all of you for joining today.
04:58Anthony Scaramucci, great to have you back on Uncensored.
05:02I've just written a column for The Spectator magazine here in the UK, and I've said that
05:09amid all the mayhem, the squealing, the banshee shrieking that goes around whenever Trump
05:14opens his mouth, the hysteria in many ways, I do see a certain cold calculated method
05:23to the madness.
05:24I see somebody who campaigned that he would end these two wars who is, it seems to me,
05:30edging nearer to doing that than his predecessor.
05:34Somebody who said he sought the problem out on the southern border seems to have done
05:37that almost immediately.
05:39Somebody who said he'd fix America's structural economic problems.
05:44And although it's obviously very turbulent right now, when the country is so riddled
05:49with debt, something has to be done.
05:52And my bet is this might, over time, work better than doing nothing.
05:58My point being that sometimes you have to cut through all the hysteria with Donald Trump,
06:02and you know him as well as anyone, and just focus on what he actually does and give it
06:07a bit of time to see if it works.
06:09Am I being naive?
06:13Listen, you're being very generous.
06:15I guess what I would say to you is that Russia does not want to feel like a regional power,
06:21even if it is a regional power.
06:23And I was with President Trump in December of 2016 when Dr. Kissinger was in the room
06:29with him, and Dr. Kissinger told President Trump to treat Putin like a superpower, and
06:37you'll get more out of him.
06:39So I'll continue your line of generosity with the president.
06:42But we have Christopher Steele on.
06:45I've read his book, Unredacted.
06:47There's evidence that suggests that there's a tie there.
06:50And so we couldn't figure it out in the White House.
06:53McMaster couldn't figure it out.
06:54If you bring him on, he can't answer for it.
06:56But General McMaster went on Fox News yesterday, because he knows Donald Trump, President Trump
07:03watches Fox News, and he says, look, he's going to do whatever Putin wants him to do.
07:08And I find that hard for me.
07:11We still live in a very powerful country with the most powerful military, and the Russian
07:17economy is crippled.
07:19And the flex on President Trump, I don't get.
07:22He's showing naked pictures on state television the evening of President Trump's reassent
07:27to the presidency.
07:28He blows them off for an hour and puts them on hold, basically, for the call.
07:33And so I guess I would push back to you and the other panelists, and I would say, what
07:37is all of that about?
07:38Because when the windows open, Pierce, and you hear clippity-clop, it's a horse.
07:43It's not a zebra.
07:44There's something going on.
07:46I don't know exactly what it is.
07:47Maybe Christopher Steele does.
07:49But there's something going on.
07:50I would like you, as a great journalist and an investigative reporter, let's get to the
07:55bottom of it.
07:56Well, you know what I think?
07:57I think, look, I think the first two years of his first term, everybody tried to get
08:01to the bottom of it.
08:02And ultimately, the conclusion, the official conclusion, was that it was pretty much a
08:08gigantic nothing-burger.
08:09And I will come to Christopher Steele in a moment.
08:11But certainly, there was no hard evidence that was established, beyond any reasonable
08:17doubt, that the Kremlin had helped Trump fix that election win.
08:20And the problem with that, it seemed to me, was that because the Russia collusion narrative
08:26was taken by the mainstream media and run so aggressively for two years, pretty much
08:3024-7, that when it turned out not to be as they had said, I think there was a huge breach
08:36of trust with the American people, and outside of America, but with the American people,
08:41where people were like, you know what?
08:42If that isn't true, after all you've been saying for two years, if that just isn't fundamentally
08:49true, then what else can I believe?
08:51So we're now in a position where it's all, it's all, it's all supposition.
08:54Pierce, you've got to give me a chance to respond, though, before the other panelists.
08:57Yeah.
08:57See, there's no, there was no collusion.
09:00Listen, I sat in those things.
09:01By the way, I told, I told people in the Congress, we weren't even colluding with ourselves on
09:06the campaign.
09:06How the hell were we colluding with the Russians?
09:08So there was no collusion, and that was a specious wrong rabbit hole to go down.
09:13I'm more talking about the tie between President Putin and President Trump, the oligarch tie,
09:20the fact that the boys, Don Jr., Eric Trump, they said that their money came from Russia.
09:28They said that in 2013, 14, and 15.
09:31They then changed the tune when their dad was running for president.
09:34So I'm not talking about the collusion issue.
09:36You're right about that.
09:38And they ran down the wrong rabbit hole.
09:40And I think that put up a bigger smoke screen about the underlying Putin-Trump drama.
09:45OK.
09:46I've said enough.
09:46I apologize for over speaking.
09:48No, no, no.
09:48I think it's very interesting.
09:48There's something there to me.
09:50Look, you were there.
09:51Look, Christopher Steele, I'll bring you in here.
09:53I just think that argument, there's something there, but we don't know what it is, but it
09:56must be there by implication.
09:58I don't really buy that.
10:00You know, I just think if there was something there with Trump and Putin that was genuinely
10:04incriminating, and, you know, you were one of the main incriminators with that dossier,
10:10if there was something genuinely there that had been established beyond any doubt,
10:14we would know about it by now, wouldn't we?
10:17Peter Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent.
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11:26Now, on with the show.
11:30I think you have to look beyond just Trump.
11:31I mean, the dossier itself covered not just Trump, but also other figures around him,
11:36particularly Manafort, who was the head of his campaign.
11:40And I think the idea that Manafort and Kilimnik, if you remember the Russian intelligence officer
11:45who he worked with in Ukraine, weren't involved in some kind of cooperation or collusion in
11:502016 is for the birds.
11:52I mean, I think it's very clear that Manafort was probably trading campaign data and so
11:57on with Kilimnik, and in fact came back soon after the election, I think in the transition
12:02period, with a very sort of pro-Russian Ukrainian peace plan, as he called it, which he presented
12:08to Trump.
12:09There was also, of course, all the links between Mike Flynn and the Russian ambassador in the
12:14transitional period.
12:15And if you go back before that, way back to 2008, when Trump sold one of his properties
12:22in Sunny Isles, Florida, to a Russian oligarch for assessed to be double the money that it
12:27was worth, and that got Trump out of a difficulty in paying back and avoiding bankruptcy.
12:34I believe at the time, Michael Cohen said that Trump had commented to him that he was
12:39indebted to Putin for getting him off that hook.
12:42So I think there's a lot there.
12:43And it doesn't just involve Trump.
12:45It involves a whole range of different actors around him at the time.
12:49Right.
12:49But look, let's be blunt.
12:51You know, your dossier caused a firestorm, obviously, when it came out.
12:56It was funded by Hillary Clinton, Democrats and other political opponents of Trump, leaked
13:02by BuzzFeed News just before he was sworn in as president for maximum potential damage.
13:08And, you know, as you know, because you penned it, it contained a number of incendiary
13:13allegations, not least of which the one that the Russians may have held blackmail video
13:18of Trump engaged in very unsavory activity with prostitutes and so on, which he's emphatically
13:24denied and for which no other evidence has ever emerged.
13:28Do you accept, Christopher Steele, that you're part of the problem here in the credibility
13:34that people attach to anything linking Trump and Putin?
13:38Because so much of that dossier to this day remains unproven and much of it has been widely
13:45discredited.
13:47I don't believe it has been widely discredited.
13:49I would agree that some of it's been unproven.
13:52I mean, when you dig into the real detail of this, if you look at the Mueller report,
13:55for example, and we're going to go down into the detail a little bit here, there was an
14:00exchange of emails between somebody called Rustulatze, who was working in Moscow for
14:06Agalarov, and Michael Cohen in, I think, October 2016, in which they talked about sex tapes,
14:14frankly, and about the need to suppress them.
14:17So I think there's more to this piece.
14:19If you actually look down into all the detail of the Senate report that was published, which
14:23deals particularly with Manafort and Kalimnik, and the Mueller report, as I say, which contains
14:29details, and you go back into things like the Sunny Isles deal and the Trump Tower deal
14:34and so on, there's a lot of here that isn't really understood and isn't played up.
14:39And one of the issues with the whole collusion thing is that collusion is not a criminal
14:44offence.
14:45And many of the investigations, particularly the Mueller investigation, were simply looking
14:49for criminal evidence, for criminal prosecutions, and not at the wider intelligence picture.
14:54All right.
14:55Scott Horton, I can see you shaking your head.
14:57And I think I saw a bit of eye rolling.
14:59So your response to that?
15:02Well, there's a few things.
15:03First of all, the reason for Trump's policy goes to what Mr. Scaramucci said.
15:11It was Henry Kissinger's advice to recreate the Russian-Sino split.
15:16If they're getting too close together, we want to split the weaker off from the stronger,
15:20just the way Kissinger did with Nixon in the early 70s, making a treaty with China.
15:26So Trump even had said that, yeah, Henry Kissinger told me I'm so smart because that's what
15:31I think that we ought to do.
15:33So this is a recognition that Russia is part of Europe and part of greater Christendom
15:40and the West, even if the eastern frontier of it, and that we want to keep them moving
15:47towards us, which had nominally been American policy since the end of the Cold War, even
15:54if very badly practiced.
15:56That's what they said that they were trying to do.
15:58And so that is Trump's motive here.
16:01And if it hadn't have been for Mr. Steele and his cohorts that pushed the Russiagate
16:06hoax back in 2016, then Trump would have been able to solve the problem in Ukraine then.
16:13Remember, the FBI told CNN after the plan to depose Trump through the 25th Amendment
16:21had fallen through, if you could believe that.
16:24They said, well, at least we can still rein him in on Russia policy by launching this
16:30special counsel investigation, keeping the hoax going, preventing him from implementing
16:34his policy.
16:35To this day, he brags, I'm the one who sent the Javelin missiles, as he did then, because
16:41this is his body armor against the accusation that he's kowtowing to Putin.
16:46And his son even said, oh, yeah?
16:48How can we bomb Assad then in Syria if we're in the thrall of Vladimir Putin?
16:54This kind of thing.
16:55So it affected Donald Trump's foreign policy in his first term absolutely for the worst,
17:02because as you said, Pierce, the conflict had started back in 2014 after the loss of
17:07Crimea and then the launch of the war in the Donbass.
17:10And so there was a Minsk II peace deal, but it had not been implemented.
17:17And Trump's government, I don't know if Trump knows this or not, but his ambassador, Adam
17:21Taylor, told Ukraine not to implement the German proposal to try again to implement
17:28the Minsk II deal and put an end to the conflict in 2019.
17:32And so there's that part of it.
17:34On the details of the Steele dossier and all this stuff, I mean, you got to be kidding
17:38me.
17:39I have 75 pages in my book.
17:41I hope you're enjoying it, Pierce.
17:42I am.
17:42I've got it here.
17:44Provoked.
17:44Here it is.
17:45There's a little plug for you.
17:47How Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine by Scott
17:51Holder, a big meaty tome.
17:54Yes, well, I hope you're enjoying it.
17:56I do have 75 pages on Russiagate in the end, including a section on the Steele dossier
18:01there.
18:02And everything that he said about Manafort and Page and all of these people in the Trump
18:06campaign were absolute lies.
18:08In fact, an FBI lawyer even was convicted for censoring the CIA memo to the FBI saying
18:18Page works for us as not an agent, but an asset, a loyal American patriot who always
18:24debriefed the CIA any time he met with an important Russian businessman or government
18:29official.
18:29And this liar framed him essentially for treason.
18:33And by the way, his primary sources were a Russian named Danchenko, who had been under
18:39investigation for being a Russian spy in the past.
18:42And the only reason they had dropped is because they mistakenly thought he left the country.
18:45And then his partner, an American named Dolan, who actually was a registered agent of Russia.
18:51They were the two primary sources who made up all those lies that you and I just recited,
18:55Pierce, that made it into Steele's dossier that they use.
18:59And none of it was true.
19:01Not the hacking of the DNC, not the Alpha Bank, not any of the Steele dossier.
19:06I'm amazed that this guy is willing to show his face in public right now when he was nothing
19:11but a washed up spy who hadn't had contacts in Russia for years by the time that he published
19:16that pile of lies.
19:18It's incredible.
19:20Well, I think out of fairness, I should go back to you, Christopher Steele, briefly.
19:25What's your response?
19:26Nothing but a pile of lies.
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20:27Well, I've never lied about any of this, of course, and it's been tested in court many times.
20:32As you'll be aware, I've been involved in several high court trials involved in this and won them
20:38all. So I don't think there's any basis upon which to think that we were deliberately lying
20:43or misleading anybody. And in fact, of course, the dossier wasn't meant to be made public at all.
20:48So I think that that is going down the wrong path in terms of our source base in Russia.
20:53Obviously, we don't talk about that, but I've made a successful business over the last 15 years
20:59over running sources in Russia and China and other places, producing intelligence to meet
21:05high standards of corporate requirements. So I think the idea that I'm out there
21:10lying and making stuff up is ludicrous. Of course, intelligence isn't always entirely
21:15accurate. Intelligence reflects the sources, reflects their motivations, reflects their
21:20access. And of course, even in a system like Russia, you have people being dishonest with each
21:26other. If you sat in a room when Putin was talking to Shoigu about the situation on the battlefield
21:32in Ukraine, you may well not be listening to the truth, but you're listening to a truth,
21:38which is upon which Putin makes his policy decisions. And a lot of the conflict in Ukraine
21:44as it's unfolded and Putin's conduct of it has been based, I would argue, on distorted information
21:52being passed up the command chain to him and telling him things he wants to hear.
21:57Joe Walsh, it seems to me that Trump's issued a statement saying he had a very good call
22:02with President Zelensky today, just completed a very good telephone call, lasting more than an
22:07hour apparently. Much of the discussion was based on the call yesterday with President Putin in
22:12order to align both Russia and Ukraine in terms of their requests and needs. We are very much on
22:17track. And said he'd instructed Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, and National Security Advisor
22:23Mike Waltz to give an accurate description of the points discussed. And that statement will come out
22:27shortly. I mean, this seems like real progress to me. You know, you can hate Trump as much as you
22:31like. You can think he's in bed with Putin, whatever, whatever. But the fact he's spoken to
22:36both the leaders at length in the last 24 hours and is giving very positive
22:42noises about the way this is going, isn't that where we all want to get to?
22:48Pierce, good to be with you. Look, I generally don't pay attention to or believe anything Trump
22:54says. And that's principally where you and I differ, because I do believe he generally lies
23:01every time he opens his mouth. But Pierce, I've just got to go. And I loved your open
23:06and I respect your open. But we talk about the Russia gate hoax. I don't know what we're
23:14referring to. Everybody knows all of our intelligence people know Trump's all of
23:20Trump's people knew at the time that Russia in an unprecedented way tried to impact the 2016
23:29election. That wasn't the allegation. But hang on. That wasn't that. I didn't call it a hoax,
23:34by the way. But secondly, that wasn't the central charge. The central charge was that
23:40the Kremlin had directly colluded with Donald Trump to get him to win the election. And there
23:45was no evidence for that. It turned out to be bullshit. Pierce, I'm getting to that and I'll
23:50quickly get to that. But the central thesis that Putin and Russia interfered in our election to
23:57help get Trump elected, that was accepted by all of our intelligence people, Trump's intelligent
24:05people and Obama's. That's when Trump stood up in 2018 in Helsinki and Trump said, I don't believe
24:12my own people. I stand with Putin. As far as collusion, Pierce, the Mueller report is littered
24:20with collusion as as the conclusion. But what it went through all of the stuff that was there
24:29and ultimately it did not conclude that Trump had colluded with Russia to fix the election.
24:37People could keep talking about it, but the bottom line is that was the whole purpose of
24:41the investigation. It proved Mueller, Mueller and the Mueller report showed improved collusion.
24:48Mueller himself said it didn't rise to the level of a crime, to a conspiracy. I accept that.
24:56But there was don't don't say the Mueller report denied collusion. It said the collusion we found,
25:03we couldn't prove it rose to the level of a conspiracy. Right. But there was collusion.
25:09Right. Okay. That is such nonsense. That is not true at all. Anyone can read the Mueller
25:14report for themselves and see where they come up with absolutely nothing. They don't even have a
25:18chain of custody of the DNC leak to WikiLeaks or anything at all. And then the Durham report
25:25is 10 times worse. The Durham report is the investigation into the investigation and the
25:31start of it all, where John Durham, the special agent, absolutely or pardon me, special prosecutor,
25:38absolutely debunks every shred of this hoax to the bones. And everyone should.
25:44I want to bring in Natalie. I want to bring in Natalie. You've been waiting very patiently.
25:48Natalie, what is your reaction to all this?
25:53Well, I know Christopher Steele probably wanted to go down in history as someone that colluded
25:56with the Clinton campaign to take down President Donald J. Trump. But I really think that you
26:01represent probably the ultimate grifter in the American political space for you to even come on
26:07here. Obviously, you're trying to sabotage what President Trump is doing when it comes
26:10to Russia and Ukraine. But to sit here, what is it, nearly a decade after you tried to smear
26:15President Trump as a Russian asset to then say, well, I think he's a Russian asset. But even
26:20though I'm really good at my job and create all these intelligence reports, it's just sort of a
26:24feeling that I have. I'm sorry. What stones do you even have left to turn over to try to
26:29corroborate your claim that President Trump is a Russian asset? You what? Weaponized FISA courts,
26:34surveillance warrants, not just domestic spy agencies, international spy agencies to the
26:40entire DNC apparatus, a bunch of political operatives and registered foreign agents here
26:44in the United States. The American people would really appreciate it if you would stop injecting
26:50your efforts to curtail and totally tank the America First movement by smearing anyone who
26:56doesn't want to get involved in forever wars or continue the needless and ceaseless dying
27:01of Ukraine and Ukraine and in Russia, just so you can sit there from your nice perch
27:06and just continue to defend the globalist world order by continuing to fan the flames
27:11of conflict in Russia and Ukraine. And you know what? The same people that you ally yourself with
27:16here in the United States, you think you're so good at gathering intelligence. Last time I checked,
27:21it was the 51 Intel Agency officers, spies who said that the Hunter Biden hard drive,
27:27which I've reported on firsthand, it's legitimate. You want to talk about President's sons who were
27:31involved in businesses with foreign countries? Well, I'd like to introduce you to Hunter Biden,
27:36right? When those 51 people that I'm sure that you know all too well, you were probably likely
27:41involved with the drafting of that letter said that that was rust, Russian disinformation. Well,
27:46it turned out that that was true in shame on you for the last decade, trying to inject the idea
27:51that smearing President Trump as a Russian agent or Russian asset is somehow going to take the
27:56Maga movement. It's about putting America first. And the fact that you can still sit here and
28:01you have no actual evidence beside one random Russian meeting. And oh, we need to just continue
28:06to get more evidence. You're a complete political hack and grifter. And I wish the American political
28:11scene didn't have your voice in it. All right. Well, Christopher Steele, you're about to leave
28:15us because you're only here for this part of the of the panel. But your response finally to that.
28:20My response is that I'm a professional intelligence officer, an expert on that
28:25part of the world. I'm not a politician. Was the Hunter Biden hard drive Russian
28:29disinformation that if you're such an expert? Let him finish. Let him finish.
28:36So I've been a close ally of the United States for probably most of the last 40 years. I've worked
28:43extremely closely with officials working for administrations, both Republican and Democrat.
28:51I have a very strong US client base, for which I've worked and produced information over many
28:57years, none of whom have ever made any such allegation against me. And it's palpable nonsense
29:03to claim that I'm in hock with the Clinton campaign didn't say that about you. Well,
29:10I never worked for the Clinton campaign. I never had any contact with the Clinton campaign. That's
29:15the reality of it. I produced a report for a partner firm in Washington. And the results of
29:24that report made me as an ally of the United States, as I would have expected an American
29:30counterpart to do, to report back in what I found to the contacts I had in the FBI at the time.
29:36OK, that was the right thing to do. And I'm proud. We're going to leave it. We're going to leave it
29:41there. I think everyone's had their say. I love his expert opinion. Let's leave it there. I want
29:45to move on to other subjects. Christopher Steele, thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.
29:48I'm going to let you go. Anthony Scaramucci, I want to talk to you about Elon Musk.
29:53You're a very successful business guy. Elon Musk runs some of the biggest, most successful
29:58businesses in the history of planet Earth, from SpaceX to Tesla to all these things.
30:04And he's taken a sort of leave of absence from running these companies to immerse himself
30:10completely into trying to slash federal waste through the Doge campaign that he's launched.
30:16And the backlash against him is getting increasingly ferocious, particularly with Tesla,
30:23where people have started popping up all over America, torching Tesla cars. People are
30:29boycotting buying Teslas now. The very people, ironically, that used to love Elon Musk, the
30:35liberals, are now saying, we don't want to touch him. He's a neo-Nazi and so on and so on. In
30:41Germany, where he backed the far right in an election there, Tesla sales are collapsing.
30:47There's now word that Tesla sales generally are going to be way down in the next report.
30:52And the share price has halved, I think, in the last 10 days. So he's got real problems here.
30:58What does he do? If you're Elon Musk right now, do you carry on in the political arena,
31:04given the damage to your businesses, or do you get out?
31:07Listen, I got in trouble. I was on CNN, and I said, they're going to hurt Elon Musk. And I like
31:15Elon Musk. I think he's a brilliant guy. I'll quote Jamie Dimon and tell you that what Jamie
31:20said, he's the Thomas Edison of our time. Full disclosure, I'm an investor in X. Privately,
31:26I'm an investor in SpaceX. I don't own any Tesla. But I think Elon Musk is a brilliant
31:32entrepreneur. But all I was saying, if he goes into politics, because of the 360-degree firing
31:39squad, which I experienced, and I was only there for 11 days, it's going to hurt his businesses.
31:45And people said, oh, I was threatening him. I'm not threatening him. I'm just pointing out as an
31:50observer of the political system that this would be harmful to him. And now it has been harmful to
31:56him. But I would submit to the other people listening in that this is going to be harmful to
32:02what does he do? Does he retreat? Is that permanent damage done to his brand? Or is it
32:08repairable? I don't actually know the answer to that. But I can tell you this. If the shares keep
32:13dropping, he's going to get faced with a margin call, because he put up those shares as collateral
32:19to borrow debt to purchase X peers. And so there's an entangled web there. And I know he's upset
32:26about it, which is why we had the car dealership on the South Portico of the White House. So I get
32:33it. But I'm just saying, when you are a business person and you stray into politics, and to quote
32:40Michael Jordan, Republicans buy my sneakers too, I'm staying out of it. I don't see how he can go
32:46back, though, sir, from where he is right at this moment. I mean, Joe Walsh, can we all agree the
32:52attacks on Tesla cars and showrooms and so on is despicable? Can we just start from that?
32:58Despicable. Yeah. Yeah. I have the solution here. Listen, the military industrial complex,
33:05they need that money. They have to have that tax money. They won't get real jobs. So here's what
33:10we do. We end all the wars. We put all the money into a one way mission to Mars. And we send all
33:17of the military industrial complex there. And Musk can lead the way. And then we can be a free
33:23country. Well, he does. I mean, Elon Musk has said, I'll come back to you, Joe. I mean, Elon
33:26Musk has said that by, I think he said within 20 years, there could be 20 million humans up on
33:33Mars. I think that's probably a bit of a stretch. But certainly, it's an indication of just how big
33:38picture he thinks. But has he overstretched himself here? No, we can all condemn any acts of
33:45violence, of damage, the arson and so on is all despicable. But he has been very deliberately and
33:52very provocatively poking his way into UK politics, demanding that the prime minister be put in
33:59prison. He directly involved himself in the German election, aligning himself with what many believe
34:05there to be the far right, et cetera, et cetera. And he, of course, remains an unelected official
34:11who seems to have open access to the White House. A lot of people don't like this. Trump is a lot
34:15more popular than Elon Musk is right now. Well, Piers, look, and again, I say this as someone
34:22who's in the public eye. Elon's got to grow up. He made this decision, as Anthony said, to get into
34:29politics. That's not all, though, Piers. He chose a side and he's free to do that. And he chose
34:38to join Trump and MAGA and he chose to attack the left and he chose to get involved, as you said,
34:46in European elections. He's free to make those decisions. But because he chose to be partisan,
34:56absolutely, then he's going to take the protests, the boycotts. He's going to take the hate
35:03because he's jumped into the arena and he's chosen a side. And now he's got to live with
35:09that. Having said that, Piers, political violence is always wrong and unacceptable.
35:16Right. So, Nathalie, I mean, it seems to me, look, there's no doubt that I kind of get the
35:21big picture here that Trump and Musk are trying to do. I do. And it may well turn out to work.
35:26But there's no doubt in the short term, in the first eight weeks, Trump's popularity has
35:31dramatically reduced, as has Elon Musk's even more dramatically. You know, people want quick
35:38results. They're not getting them. They're seeing the stock market tanking. They're seeing,
35:43you know, prices for most products still very high, etc., etc. How careful do they have to be
35:49here? Because they've got a big win, Trump and the Republicans at the election. How careful
35:56have they got to be right now? Well, I don't necessarily know if President Trump and Elon
36:02Musk are hemorrhaging support. I think there's been some recent poll numbers coming out showing
36:06that it's really the Democratic Party who's having a real identity crisis. Well, they're
36:09far worse. I agree. They're far worse. But there's no doubt all the polling I've seen shows Trump's
36:14polling and Musk's in particular are significantly lower than from election day. Well, I think the
36:20American people... The Democrats are completely in the... I mean, the Democrats are shot to pieces.
36:26I think we can all agree with that. Worst polling in recorded history and thoroughly deserved for
36:31the shambolic way they behaved in the last year. But let's focus just on Trump and Musk. You know,
36:37they're all in on what they're doing. But at the moment, the public, I would describe it as
36:41they're wary. They're like, we're nervous about this. Well, I think the way that the media has
36:48depicted what they're doing is contributing to that. I think overwhelmingly the American people
36:52support the idea of cutting waste, fraud and abuse. Be my guest if you want to find me a
36:56Democrat or an American citizen who wants to send millions and at the end of the day, billions of
37:01taxpayer dollars, not just to fund the weird transgender musicals in foreign countries,
37:05but, you know, really weird, perverse bioweapon research in countries like China. I don't think
37:10that that's something that the American people support. I do think there is overwhelmingly
37:14a lot of support for the Doge efforts. I think there's sort of this maniacal focus on these
37:19protests against Elon Musk. I don't necessarily share your victim blaming idea that just because
37:24someone weighs into the political space, that therefore their companies should be attacked.
37:29There should be brutal demonstrations, cars set on fire. I think people can oppose Tesla by
37:34choosing not to buy those cars. But what you're seeing is extremely well-funded and coordinated
37:38demonstrations targeting really him from the vantage point where I think Democrats for the
37:42last four years, they used lawfare, they used overregulation. Frankly, they used censorship
37:48because they had all the levers of the government to do so. And now that they don't,
37:51they're desperate. They're flailing like the polling we were just talking about.
37:55So they're acting out like petulant children and trying to burn down cars and attack not just Elon
38:00Musk, but attack his supporters. But I just reject your premise that Doge is something
38:05that is not popular with the American people. You can have nuanced debates about the Medicaid,
38:09Medicare. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I don't think you slightly mischaracterize what I said. I don't
38:14think Doge is particularly unpopular. I think what's happened, I'll come to Scott for this,
38:19it's just the personal approval ratings for Trump and Musk in particular have fallen significantly
38:26and are continuing to fall. What do you make of this? Because it's a very unusual way they're
38:31going about a presidency. Like I said, my gut feeling is they're on to the right thing, but
38:36it may take a significant amount of time to realize itself and they may not get enough time.
38:44Well, I don't know about his poll numbers and what's really behind all that.
38:48I hope it's because a huge part of the MAGA right is trying to hold him to his word about America
38:54first, not Israel instead. And I guess that goes to our next topic or one of our topics today is
39:01the horrible war there and Donald Trump acting just like Joe Biden, just like Kamala Harris
39:07would in his position, giving Netanyahu a blank check to cancel the peace deal and bomb whoever
39:12he feels like, including a hell of a lot of children. If you look at x.com in the feed there
39:18at the horrific pictures coming out of Palestine there. And that's, it's the most obvious
39:26contradiction. You can't be America first and Israel instead. It's got to be one or the other.
39:32And I know the American right is almost solidly on the side of Israel in almost all cases,
39:40but everybody's got their limit. And, you know, the American right used to really believe in
39:44George W. Bush in the Iraq war until they decided they didn't anymore. And I think there's a big
39:50crack up coming on the right because what we're supporting there is just absolutely horrific.
39:55I mean, they're talking about, oh, well, maybe we'll just transfer the population to Syria.
39:59So you can go live under the rule of Al-Qaeda that America and Turkey just helped install
40:03in power there. And Israel helped install in power there. I mean, this is completely insane
40:08what they're talking about and what they seem to have in mind. I don't know if they have an idea
40:13of how they're, how they mean to accomplish it, but I was having a good time watching Elon Musk
40:18fire government employees. And I'm angry at the judges every time that they turn back these
40:24firings. And I don't extend that to the immigration thing. That's different. But I mean, specifically
40:30those guys who were just deported to El Salvador, whether they'd ever been there before in their
40:34lives. But a lot of these judge rulings drive me crazy. I love seeing the death of USAID,
40:40or at least, you know, its massive diminishment and a lot of the rest of this stuff.
40:44Yeah. And I would also say, Joe, I will come to you, Joe. I would say Elon Musk,
40:50to his credit, you know, we're seeing the best of him as well this week with the return of the
40:54NASA astronauts from the international, you know, space station situation they got themselves into.
41:02You know, that is Elon Musk at his absolute best, you know, doing what he does best. Yeah, Joe.
41:09No, Piers, to what Scott just said, these judges drive me crazy. Well, I'm sorry, that's our
41:16constitutional system that's driving you crazy. And this is part of Elon's and Trump's problem,
41:23is that the vast majority of what they're doing is unconstitutional. A judge just came out
41:30yesterday and said everything they've been doing with USAID is not constitutional. That matters.
41:37That doesn't mean Trump and Musk don't have recourse. They can appeal that judge's rulings,
41:43but you don't do what Musk and Trump do and just scream that, oh, these judges must be impeached.
41:50Excuse me. That's part of the system, this constitutional system.
41:56Well, look, I agree with that. And really, they should be going to Congress for as much
41:59of this as they possibly can. On the other hand, you notice that the president can do anything he
42:04wants. Obama can announce the launch of a war against Libya while he's on vacation in Brazil.
42:09He announced the war in Yemen in 2015 by having a State Department spokeswoman just put out a
42:16press release. So the American president is the emperor of the world. You can do just about
42:22anything except fire government employees and stop executive branch employees from abusing their
42:27power and wasting our money. The moment he tries to do that, the whole government acts like, you
42:33know, antibodies, fighting a germ against their own president, just the same as last time when
42:37they framed him for treason with Russia to keep him from exercising power of his own government.
42:42You know what they said? They said Trump is like the captain of a ship. He's holding the wheel,
42:46but it's not attached to anything because his whole government is in rebellion against him,
42:51even though he's the one who stood for election and won the right to sit in that chair behind
42:55that desk, not them. Okay. Let me, Anthony, I think you've got a slight hard out today,
43:01but I just wanted to talk to you about what's happening with Israel. The IDF, as we've been
43:05talking, says it's launched a new limited ground invasion in Gaza. The Israeli government says it's
43:12to retake part of a key corridor into Gaza. Obviously, this follows extensive airstrikes
43:18in the last two days. You know, we have to go on the Palestinian, the health authority, which is
43:24Hamas run on the death toll. But it's believed up to a thousand people may have been killed
43:32in the last two days in this new offensive, which has obviously shattered the ceasefire.
43:37Now, I get the argument from the Israeli side that if Hamas is suspending the process of releasing
43:44the hostages, there's still nearly 60 who are being held, they believe, you know, who are still
43:49alive. But if it is doing that, then obviously at some point Israel is going to have to do something
43:54to try and force them to release them. Is it, though, the right course of action to just go out
44:00and create a thousand more deaths, whatever it may be, including God knows how many children,
44:06because half the population is under 18? I just think the optics of this for Israel are terrible.
44:12And I also think that their central point, which is the whole war is about eliminating Hamas.
44:19At the moment, there's no sign they've done that at all. In fact, by releasing hundreds
44:23and hundreds of Palestinian prisoners as part of this hostage deal, they're running back,
44:29presumably many of them aligned ideologically with Hamas. We've seen with the release of the
44:34hostages so much support for Hamas on the ground in Gaza still. So they don't seem to be achieving
44:40the central aim of the war. What they're doing is just killing more and more people,
44:46which I have always felt at some stage will just start to fuel rather than kill off the ideology.
44:54Well, listen, this is going to be a controversial statement. I'm sure I'm
44:58going to inflame everybody that's on the panel with me. But I always thought that they needed
45:04to create a buffer zone there, and they should have done that with some level of cooperation
45:09in the Arab world. I think that the president actually hurt the situation by saying he was going
45:14to, I guess, move 1.8 million people out of the region. Obviously, his allies in the Gulf
45:21rejected that out of hand, and he had a reverse course last week by saying, of course, he's not
45:25going to do that. But to me, I think what they're doing is actually hardening opposition against
45:32Israel. And I'm obviously a strong proponent for Israel, and I'm a supporter of Israel,
45:38but I don't think we can support indiscriminate death. I think it's just something that
45:44imagine if Winston Churchill guys or any of our allies during the war, we killed 400,000 German
45:51civilians through the bombings. The bombing of Dresden, Piers, I know you know a lot about it.
45:58Curtis LeMay is obviously a war criminal based on what he did in Dresden, but it wasn't well
46:04reported. Just imagine if these people had this type of reporting or your show going on during
46:09the Second World War. So, to me, the obvious thing to have done there was-
46:11Yeah, but that was one of the reasons why we created things like the Geneva Convention. I
46:14mean, there was a widespread acceptance that there were horrific crimes committed during the war,
46:20which should not be allowed to happen again. I thought Dresden was appalling,
46:23you know, and should not be allowed to have happened. But that was why they set up
46:27the Geneva Convention and other instruments to avoid this happening.
46:31So, I just want to make this point then. So, why didn't we have an international coalition of
46:36people? There's a lot of willing people to create a strategic buffer zone in the Gaza Strip between
46:44Israel and the Gaza. And then, you know, the issue related to the political support around Hamas,
46:53we could address that by taking the security concern away from Israel. And so, what Israel's
47:00saying right now is that we're threatened by Hamas. Hamas has lots of political support. We're
47:05going to continue to bomb them until morale improves. And that has never worked, Pierce.
47:11I can answer that. First of all, I think it's important. And everyone on this panel and in
47:16this audience has heard Israeli officials invoke Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima and Nagasaki as
47:22the precedent for why they can bomb this Indian reservation the way America took it out on Hitler
47:27and Tojo, which is completely insane. And as noted, completely illegal, because that's why
47:33they wrote the Geneva Conventions in the first place. Secondly, Mr. Scaramucci, the thing is,
47:38there is a buffer zone around Gaza. There has been for a very long time. That's why we call
47:43October 7th, October 7th, not the second week of October or, you know, the autumn of 2023.
47:52It lasted one day, because what happened essentially was people broke out of their pen
47:57because the Israeli security forces were completely negligent in their so-called duty
48:03to keep those people locked in there. They literally had automatic machine guns like
48:07idiocracy on remote control, and they got caught with their pants down on a Saturday morning.
48:13But the whole thing was over by midnight. OK, so there is a buffer zone. In other words,
48:18they don't have to do this at all. They never did. And when it comes to the entire history
48:23of Israel-Palestine, since the creation of the state, their special operations forces and spies
48:28have shown that they can reach out and touch someone one at a time. They do it all the time
48:34when that's what they want to do. Instead, what they've done here is level the place,
48:40invoking Dresden, level the place to make it uninhabitable because they want to steal it.
48:45They want to drive the Palestinians out of there. If they can't push them into Egypt,
48:49now they're promoting pushing them into Syria. The Wall Street Journal even let a couple of
48:54Israeli officials run an article in our paper saying, you take them, you love the Palestinians
48:59so much. And this is their plan. And what's worse is they don't even really care that much
49:04about the Gaza Strip. It's the West Bank that they want. But they're going to go ahead and
49:09try to take care of this while they can. And that's why they broke the ceasefire.
49:13They don't want a ceasefire. OK, I want to give you the chance to respond,
49:17but you probably don't have time for me to respond to that. But that does deserve a response.
49:24No, actually, before you go, just respond to that.
49:30Listen, you could go back to 9-11. The way the Americans responded was very aggressive in 9-11,
49:37and it was an overreach to go into Iraq. So we're in agreement that there's an overreach going on
49:42right now. But if you're telling me you're in a seat of political leadership and there's an
49:47attack like that, and I've seen the 47-minute IDF film, and I just ask you to put yourself in the
49:54shoes of an Israeli political leader, you're in a very, very tough spot in terms of how you're
50:00going to protect your country. You're right about the dereliction of duty at the border on that
50:06Sunday morning. But I'm just telling you, they were in a tough spot. What I'm saying is they
50:11had to respond. I mean, I would add this point, which is, I would add this point,
50:17Scott. Scott, I would say this. I would say this. The scale of what Hamas did that day,
50:223,000 of them in three ways, coming over the border, committing mass horrific acts of terrorism
50:30against anyone that could get their hands on. Rape, decapitation.
50:321,200 were murdered, at least. 250-odd were kidnapped, including babies,
50:38Holocaust survivors, and so on. Nearly 7,000 more were wounded. The idea that Hamas launched
50:45such an enormous attack on Israel without knowing for an absolute certainty as they did so,
50:52the scale of Israel's response was going to be equally enormous, if not a lot more so,
50:58I think is for the birds. And listen, you can go back in any-
51:01Nobody ever said that. I agree with you, by the way, about the argument,
51:05they broke out of the pen. I get all this. I get the argument that the Palestinians have
51:10been oppressed for a long period of time, that they should have equal rights. I agree with all
51:15this. There should be a two-state solution, everything. But anyone that tries to in any way
51:20mitigate or downplay the scale of what Hamas did, and that is why it runs so deep, I think,
51:26on the Israeli side. I think that is part of the problem here.
51:31I didn't say anything to diminish-
51:34No, no, I'm not saying you did. I'm just saying that-
51:38We've got to let the mooch go. Anthony, I really appreciate you joining us.
51:44I've stolen six more minutes than I was supposed to from you, Anthony. Every minute is gold,
51:48you know that. I just had a radio-
51:51I know you do. I really appreciate it.
51:52Thank you for having me on, guys.
51:54Really appreciate joining you, and I'm loving your show. Thank you very much.
51:59Great to see you. Let's just pick up with the rest of the panel. I mean, Natalie,
52:02it seems to me that Israel is not achieving its aim. It can level as much of Gaza as it wants,
52:09but ultimately it is not, according to all independent studies of what's happening there,
52:15it is not eliminating Hamas or its ideology. If I have anything, it might be fueling
52:21even more hate towards Israel.
52:24No, exactly. I mean, it looks like it's shaping up to be another forever war, and I
52:29really take the viewpoint that I care about this from the America first perspective. I don't think
52:34the United States should be continuing to fan the flames of war anywhere, let alone when you look at
52:38the atrocities that have been committed on both sides. Obviously, it's a very heated issue, but
52:43to that point, I think when you look at the college campus demonstrations that we had, or even
52:47the advocacy of people like Mahmoud Khalil, right? That's a case that's really in the forefront of
52:52everyone's mind right now. He hates Israel, and by extension, the United States of America,
52:58because of a conflict that's going on very, very, very far away from us that we're entangled in,
53:02because of, I would argue, along with political influence and stuff, but also it has to do with
53:07energy dominance and oil. That's also what's going on in Russia and Ukraine. When I see
53:11conflicts like this, my first and foremost priority, obviously, is putting America first,
53:15but it's also the importance, I think, of American energy independence and, frankly,
53:19American energy dominance, so we're not so embedded with whatever country it may be, Ukraine,
53:24or in this case, it's Israel, and having to support countries for reasons that are not
53:28explicitly or demonstrably beneficial to Americans that lead us to essentially importing a bunch of
53:34people, if not homegrown Americans, who sort of have an affinity or an allegiance to Hamas,
53:39because they really dislike what Israel's doing. Yeah, and you know, it's very interesting, Jo,
53:43I think the way the Republicans, a lot of Republicans view Ukraine is a very different
53:49situation to Israel and Hamas. You know, I had a big argument with Tucker Carlson about this,
53:55because I said, well, I don't understand, if the reason for getting out of Ukraine
53:59and not helping Ukraine is America first, you don't want to get involved in foreign wars many,
54:05many thousands of miles away from America's border, it's not in American national interest,
54:09okay, it's a perfectly reasonable argument you can have, particularly as America's been involved
54:14in so many wars that you cannot point to much victory in the last 70, 80 years. But what is the
54:22distinction then, ideologically, between then getting involved in helping Israel in a war over
54:28in the Middle East, and they sort of, they go through a real set of hoops, trying to explain to
54:34me why one is okay, and the other one isn't, when it seems to me, you're either against both of it,
54:39or you probably instinctively support both.
54:44Pierce, that's a great point. And look, I say this as someone who is, most everybody on this
54:49panel would think I'm idiotically pro-Israel. I am. But the Israel caucus, Israel has great
54:59influence on my former party, the Republican Party. Israel also, Pierce, though, is a great,
55:06great long ally of ours. You beautifully, Pierce, described what October 7th was.
55:13And again, I know we have to find a solution, but October 7th changed everything for Israel.
55:22The days of them living next door to a terrorist group like Hamas,
55:29not acknowledging Israel's right to exist, those days are done. So yeah, there needs to be some
55:36big, broad solution here, and the moderate Arab world needs to get involved damn quickly,
55:43but we're never going back to the world where Hamas is ruling Gaza. Those days are done.
55:48No, but I think the concern is that the ideology behind Hamas, the American intelligence seems to
55:56suggest for every Hamas terrorist who's been killed, they've already replaced them with
56:00somebody that shares that ideology. If that is true, and you add all the hundreds of prisoners
56:04being released, many of whom will, I'm sure, be sympathetic, if not active supporters of Hamas,
56:10you know, it's hard to see how the mission statement of this war is going to be achieved.
56:15We've got to end it there, but Scott, I want to give you a chance to plug your book,
56:19this meaty tome, as I said earlier. For those who are not familiar with you or your work,
56:24just very quickly summarize the book and why they should buy it.
56:28Well, thank you very much for that, Pierce, and for having me on again. The book is, again,
56:32called Provoked, how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in
56:36Ukraine. And it starts with the end of the last Cold War under H.W. Bush. And then each chapter
56:42is an American president all the way through Joe Biden and explaining shock therapy, the Balkan
56:49Wars, the color-coded revolutions, the so-called revolution of dignity in 2014, and the war in
56:56eastern Ukraine. Man, all of the foreign policy wonks who admitted they knew better all along
57:02while they all did it anyway. And I have 6,000 footnotes, 7,900 citations, almost 8,000 citations
57:11for you there, including all firsthand sources for you. And it's been number one and more in
57:17peace on Amazon for four months straight now, except for about a week when Jimmy Carter died.
57:22But it's doing real well, and it's endorsed by the great Ron Paul. So I don't know what
57:26more I could say about it than that. Hey, Scott, Scott, I haven't read it yet. It'll probably piss
57:32me off, but I'm going to read it, and I'd love to have you on my podcast to talk about it. Thanks.
57:37OK, sure thing. There you go. I'm getting you extra work, Scott. What more can a host do?
57:43I want to thank you all. A very interesting debate today. Thank you very much.
57:46I appreciate it. Thanks. Good luck with the book, Scott.
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