Professors Lori Williams and Ian Lee discuss Mark Carney's choice of cabinet ministers as Canada ushers in a new leadership with familiar faces.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Okay, as we said, our focus is on Ottawa this morning as Mark Carney gets set to be sworn
00:06in as Canada's latest Prime Minister, the 24th, and a new cabinet is unveiled.
00:11Let's go to Ottawa now.
00:13We're joined by Ian Lee.
00:14Ian Lee is with the Sprott School of Business at Carleton University.
00:18Ian, thank you for joining us on an eventful day.
00:22It's pretty clear from the leaks that have been made to the press on cabinet composition
00:27that Carney wants to set a new tone here.
00:29I think any new Prime Minister would, but in the context of the lack of popularity of
00:36the Trudeau government and the context, of course, of our very fraught relationship now
00:42with our big neighbour to the south, what kind of message do you think Mark Carney wants
00:46to send today?
00:48Yes, thank you, Paul.
00:51I agree that Carney wants to send a different message.
00:54He is, I have long argued, he is more from the blue liberal wing of the Liberal Party.
01:01Many parties have two wings or factions, and in the Liberal Party, there was the more progressive
01:07or red side of the party led by none other than Justin Trudeau, and Mark Carney is much
01:14more in the tradition of the blue liberal wing that has a long tradition in this party
01:18going all the way back to Robert Winter who ran against Pierre Trudeau in 68 as the business
01:23liberal.
01:25What he's doing with this cabinet, and let's be clear, it's a symbolic cabinet.
01:28It's widely accepted and expected that he, Mr. Carney, Prime Minister-designate, will
01:35call an election when he returns from Europe.
01:38So this cabinet's going to last for 10 to 30 days.
01:41That means they're not going to do very much.
01:43There's not very much you can do in 10 to 30 days on the job.
01:46So he was sending out a signal by removing or demoting some of the more, shall we say,
01:51controversial people.
01:52I'm thinking especially of Mr. Guibo, who was red meat to people in Western Canada,
01:58and understandably so because of some of the things he said about oil and gas development
02:02and pipelines and so forth.
02:04So the people he did keep are the most competent, I think, of that, of the former cabinet, and
02:10he got rid of a lot of the rest.
02:12Okay.
02:13We're joined by another expert guest as well.
02:15She is in Calgary, Laurie Williams, Associate Professor at the Department of Economics,
02:19Law, Justice and Policy Studies at Mount Royal University.
02:22Laurie, thank you for joining us as well.
02:24I'll ask you the same question.
02:26What kind of message do you think Mark Carney wants to send today in his cabinet composition?
02:32Well, it looks like he's trying to send a message of taking very seriously this moment.
02:38This is his leadership.
02:40He is focused on the issues that are important to Canadians.
02:45We're seeing him arrive at the Governor General's residence by himself.
02:53So he's quite clearly indicating here and in his plans for going to Europe right away
02:57that he's setting a new tone and a new direction, and that it's a very serious one, and that
03:03he's trying to meet the moment that Canadians are facing.
03:05I agree that he is keeping the folks in cabinet that are really important for continuity,
03:11for competence.
03:12He's bringing in new people, both for representation across the country, but also to send a pretty
03:18clear message that it's his cabinet, it's his leadership, his direction.
03:25And I think even the movement of finance and trade ministers is quite important, because
03:32he recognizes in Dominique Leblanc, somebody who is very, very able, both in terms of cross-Canada
03:40relations and in relations with the United States, that that's his great strength.
03:44And moving Mr. Champagne into finance, he's signaling again that he wants somebody very
03:52competent there.
03:53But of course, we know that his economic credentials mean that he's got great strength in that
03:57capacity as well.
03:58Ian, Chrystia Freeland returns to cabinet in a lesser role.
04:03It could only be a lesser role, because she was clearly the Trudeau government's most
04:08senior cabinet minister until the day that she dropped that bombshell that really has
04:13led us in many ways to today.
04:15What are your thoughts on Chrystia Freeland returning to cabinet in a reduced role?
04:20The reports are that she will be minister of transport, still a very significant cabinet
04:25position, but not deputy prime minister and finance minister.
04:31You're absolutely right.
04:33No shock, no surprise whatsoever.
04:35First and foremost, Chrystia Freeland, although she's very able, she was highly identified
04:41with...
04:42She was joined at the hip with former Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
04:46She was seen as one of his most strident and strong supporters of the policies that have
04:51been widely rejected by the new leadership.
04:56And so that and the fact that she underperformed in the leadership, she got such a small support
05:03in the leadership contest so that he didn't have, shall we say, as many IOUs to her.
05:08So he couldn't remove her because she is a very able and articulate and widely known,
05:14recognized brand of the Liberal Party.
05:16But I think it was inevitable.
05:17She was not going to become the deputy prime minister or the minister of finance.
05:22She would be given another portfolio, which nonetheless is still important.
05:25And you're absolutely right.
05:27Transport is huge.
05:28I mean, it deals with the entire transportation system in this country that is so critical.
05:34Rail, trucking, airlines, roads.
05:36So she still has an important position, but it is, I think it will be seen as a demotion.
05:43Laurie, Ian has made the point just before you joined us that this is likely to be a
05:48very short-lived government.
05:50An election call is widely expected soon.
05:52What kind of things do you think Carney wants to accomplish in the very short time he's
05:58got here?
05:59His focus clearly would be on relations with the U.S.
06:03Well, it is going to be on relations with the United States and managing those.
06:07But he's already indicated that he doesn't want to deal directly with Donald Trump unless
06:11there is sufficient respect being shown there.
06:14He's also indicated quite clearly that he wants to focus on strengthening the Canadian
06:18economy.
06:19And I think just to build our alliances with, particularly with Europe, and we know that
06:24he's headed for Europe right away.
06:28And that's a signal, too, that he wants to show solidarity with European leaders on the
06:33economic front and also with respect to Ukraine.
06:36I think also he's trying to signal that Canada's future is going to rely on alliances, both
06:45economic and military alliances, much more strongly with other countries.
06:50And I think it also represents a recognition that Canada and these other countries are
06:56all facing similar challenges coming out of the United States and a united front to some
07:01degree in response to that is going to be important.
07:04I also think there are opportunities here for resetting the stage, particularly with
07:11countries that we've had tense relations with.
07:15And that includes, of course, the United States, but potentially also Mexico, and it could
07:20include India and China.
07:22So there are a lot of opportunities here.
07:24And if he sort of sets the tone that he's opening the doors for different kinds of relationships
07:30and he's sending a signal of where his strength, his competence and his priorities lie, and
07:38that he's focusing primarily on Canada and what's good for Canada with or without the
07:42United States help, I think that's going to be a really strong message for him to send.
07:46Ian, we can all remember the 1988 federal election campaign in which free trade with
07:52the United States was the dominant issue.
07:54And this, in a sense, the upcoming election campaign is an echo of that in the sense that
08:00our relationship with our huge southern neighbor is the dominant issue by far.
08:06The big difference is that in the case of free trade, the country was very polarized
08:11on whether or not we should pursue a free trade agreement with the United States or not.
08:15Now the company has, in fact, come together in a way that is not often seen.
08:20How might this campaign be different than the free trade campaign?
08:25I think we're going to be surprised.
08:28I know there's a lot of rhetoric about exiting our relationship or really downplaying our
08:34relationship with the United States.
08:37I think that Prime Minister Carney just simply has too deep an understanding of economics
08:45and business and trade.
08:46He understands that the U.S. is the world economic superpower, 29 trillion GDP, dwarfs
08:53every other nation in the world, including China and Europe, by the way.
08:57And so the idea that we're going to somehow walk away from our largest and oldest trading
09:03partner that shares a border of almost 9,000 kilometers, I think, is preposterous.
09:08The fact that he put Dominique LeBlanc in that position and to focus exclusively on
09:12the trade file, I think, is very important.
09:15I've followed his career.
09:16I've met him a few times in downtown Ottawa.
09:18Ottawa is a small town in that community.
09:22He's a very, I don't think he has any enemies.
09:25He's very self-effacing.
09:27He's a very likable individual.
09:29He is not abrasive.
09:31He is not going to go down and slam the table and call Donald Trump or anyone in the American
09:36administration names, which tells me that Prime Minister-elect Carney wants to have
09:43a reset on the relationship that's going to be less loud, less obnoxious, less confrontational.
09:52That's what I think is, that's the most important appointment I took today from this cabinet
09:57change or cabinet announcement that he is going with Dominique LeBlanc, who is widely
10:01liked not only in Canada across the aisle, but has very good relationships in the White
10:06House and in the Trump administration.
10:08We are waiting.
10:10Our camera shot is on Rideau Hall, where before too long we expect Mark Carney and his cabinet,
10:17the members of his new cabinet, to enter the room for a swearing-in ceremony.
10:22I can tell you that Bloomberg News is now reporting that Canada's new finance minister
10:26will be Francois-Philippe Champagne.
10:29He has been industry minister prior.
10:31He has been closely aligned with Mark Carney through the liberal leadership campaign, and
10:37Bloomberg is reporting that it will be Francois-Philippe Champagne as Canada's new finance minister.
10:44Laurie Williams, how does all this look to the Conservative Party?
10:48They are very much out of the spotlight right now, but they'll be back in it before too
10:51long.
10:52Well, they're in the spotlight in many ways in that they've got to present an alternative.
10:57Up until now, the primary focus has been against Justin Trudeau, against the carbon tax, against
11:03Mark Carney, indeed, and the focus is going to have to be looking at this impressive sort
11:10of array of people, these connections, these alliances and advisors.
11:14We'll hear more about that in coming days, but with those kinds of connections, what
11:18does Pierre Poirier have to offer that matches up to this?
11:23In other words, what kind of leader would he be?
11:25In many ways, it's going to be an election about who is best situated to deal with Canada's
11:31international challenges, and of course, the primary ones coming out of the United States.
11:35So, we've got great strength, great strength, as Ian has said, in Dominique Leblanc on the
11:42trade file, enormously competent in that capacity, better there than in finance, as I indicated
11:48earlier.
11:49But also, Mr. Champagne in finance, again, a very strong minister, one of the key leaders
11:57on the U.S. file up until this point, and of course, there are connections there as
12:02well.
12:03So, it will be a challenge for the Conservatives to show who they have, not just potentially
12:08within cabinet or in their caucus or potential new candidates, but who are going to be the
12:14advisors?
12:15What kind of teamwork or counselor are they going to be able to generate for the sake
12:21of Canada's future?
12:23And there are lots of very good people out there that are willing to help, I think, for
12:26whoever is the prime minister after the next election.
12:31But that sense that there are people that are in government, in cabinet, and connected
12:36into the international community that can serve Canada's interests and needs in this
12:41very difficult time, that's going to be a tall order for the Conservatives.