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00:00Good afternoon, everyone.
00:13We'll start with the statement from the Secretary General, previewing the meeting of defence
00:17ministers here, and then we'll take your questions.
00:20Good afternoon.
00:22Tomorrow, NATO defence ministers will meet as we begin to prepare for the NATO Summit
00:29in The Hague in June.
00:31And later today, the UK will host ministers here for the next meeting of the Ukraine Defence
00:38Contact Group.
00:40I welcome the UK's willingness to share this responsibility and look forward to joining
00:47ministers this afternoon.
00:49I also look forward to welcoming Pete Hacksett, the new US Secretary of State of Defence,
00:55who is joining us for the first time.
00:57We already had a great first discussion by phone after he was sworn in, and we do agree
01:03there is a lot of important work ahead of us.
01:07So let me turn to that work and what we'll be focused on tomorrow.
01:12One topic at the top of our agenda is defence spending.
01:17We have robust plans in place to keep our one billion people safe in a more dangerous
01:23world.
01:24But we don't have all we need to implement them fully, if required.
01:30Work is now underway to agree ambitious new defence capability goals for Allies, the so-called
01:37capability targets, that will be key to ensuring we have the right people and equipment in
01:43place to deter and defend.
01:47And this requires that many Allies, especially in Europe and Canada, invest considerably
01:53more.
01:55We know what needs to be done.
01:58And we are moving in the right direction, step by step.
02:03European Allies have been stepping up.
02:06Today, I am pleased to share our latest figures.
02:11Since the 2014 Defence Investment Pledge, European Allies and Canada have added more
02:17than 700 billion additional US dollars for defence.
02:22In 2024, NATO Allies in Europe and Canada invested 485 billion US dollars in defence,
02:30a nearly 20% increase compared with 2023.
02:37With a full two-thirds of Allies spending at least 2% of their GDP on defence.
02:44I expect even more Allies to meet and, in many cases, exceed the target in 2025.
02:50So we are seeing substantial progress.
02:54But we need to do a lot more so we have what needs to deter and defend.
03:01And so there is a more equitable burden-sharing in place.
03:05We also need to produce more, together.
03:09And tomorrow, Defence Ministers will discuss how to strengthen our transatlantic defence
03:14industrial capacity, including through an updated Defence Production Action Plan.
03:20In the past few years, we have seen a substantial increase in defence production across the
03:26Alliance.
03:27But we need to go further and faster.
03:30There is no time to waste.
03:33I also expect Ministers to agree on a number of other important initiatives, including
03:38our new Commercial Space Strategy and on further strengthening NATO's integrated air
03:44and missile defence.
03:47We also discuss Ukraine.
03:50Tomorrow afternoon, we will meet in the NATO-Ukraine Council with Defence Minister Rustam Umarov
03:56and the EU High Representative Kaya Kalas.
04:00Since 2022, NATO Allies have provided Ukraine with unprecedented support, including 99%
04:08of all military aid.
04:11And we have seen recent additions to this, from Sweden, Finland, Canada, but also of
04:17course from France, the Mirages and the F-16s from the Netherlands.
04:21Other Allies are also stepping up their efforts to train more Ukrainian troops.
04:26NATO's newly established command in Wiesbaden to support Ukraine is at the forefront of
04:33coordinating these and future contributions.
04:37At the Washington Summit, Allies pledged to provide Ukraine with €40 billion of security
04:43assistance in 2024.
04:46Allies have not only met their commitments, they far exceeded them.
04:51They have provided over €50 billion, more than half of which comes from European Allies
04:56and Canada.
04:58This sends a clear signal of our unwavering commitment to Ukraine.
05:04It also takes a big step in the direction of what President Trump has called for.
05:10I agree with him that we must equalise security assistance to Ukraine.
05:17But to really change the trajectory of the conflict, we need to do even more.
05:22The stronger Ukraine is on the battlefield, the stronger they will be at the negotiating
05:26table, the greater the chances of getting a good deal for lasting peace.
05:33And that is what we all want.
05:35For Ukraine, for our shared security, and for our global stability.
05:40Finally, we will address Russia's ongoing campaign of destabilising actions against
05:47NATO Allies.
05:49We see acts of sabotage, assassination, dangerous jamming of civilian airlines, and attacks
05:55on critical infrastructure, including undersea infrastructure.
06:00And NATO is responding, including through Baltic Sentry in the Baltic Sea, and with
06:07increased vigilance across the board.
06:10With that, I'm ready to take your questions.
06:13MODERATOR All right.
06:15We'll start with CNN.
06:16QUESTION Good afternoon.
06:17MODERATOR Oh, microphone.
06:18Question from CNN.
06:19How do you interpret the comments that we heard from President Trump on Monday that
06:28Ukraine may someday be Russian?
06:30Do you take it seriously?
06:31And even if you don't, how worried are you that this makes Western commitment to Ukraine
06:34appear fragile in Moscow's eyes and could undermine future security guarantees?
06:39FOREIGN MINISTER We are intensely coordinating with President Trump's team at all levels,
06:45and these are very good conversations.
06:46This week, we have many senior American officials visiting Europe here at NATO, but also, of
06:52course, in Munich at the security conference.
06:55And there is a convergence of views that we have to make sure, one, that Ukraine gets
07:01in the best possible position to start talks, two, to make sure that whatever comes out
07:06of those talks, and when that will happen, that we have to be sure collectively and assure
07:12collectively that what comes out of it is durable.
07:16So no repeats of what we had with the Minsk agreement in 2014.
07:21MODERATOR All right, Reuters.
07:24QUESTION Secretary General Andrew Gray from Reuters,
07:29you said that the assistance needs to be equalized, assistance to Ukraine between the United States
07:35and other allies, but you've just given figures that show the majority of that aid comes from
07:39other allies, not from the United States.
07:42So how much of a rebalancing does there actually need to be?
07:45And secondly, on the same theme, you said in Davos that if the Trump administration
07:50is willing to continue supplying American weapons, Europe will pick up the bill.
07:55How many European leaders have agreed to do that, and have they told you where the money
07:59will come from?
08:00Well, first of all, we are on the right trajectory, indeed, when it comes to the aim of equalizing
08:06what the U.S. basically decides as a one nation within NATO comparable to all the other allies
08:14within NATO, so that we are equalizing, and here we see that Canada and Europe are even
08:19over 50 percent now, so that is good, but we have to maintain that trajectory, that's
08:24crucial, and I completely concur with President Trump and his team that this is the only sensible
08:31way forward.
08:33Then, of course, to the question of future support for Ukraine, no doubt there will be
08:40a debate, I expect, between allies, who is going to pay for it, where it comes from,
08:44et cetera, but there is also a large agreement between all allies that we have to make sure
08:49that Ukraine has what it needs in terms of training, in terms of military equipment,
08:56to make sure that whenever peace talks start, they can do that from a position of strength.
09:02All right, Sky News.
09:12Thank you. Deborah Haynes from Sky News. Donald Trump has repeatedly called on European
09:17NATO allies to spend more on defence, and he's also made clear that his priorities for
09:23security are facing up to the threat posed by China and defending America's own borders.
09:30How confident are you, therefore, that America would come to Europe's aid if European NATO
09:36allies came under attack, and could European allies alone defend themselves?
09:43I think my reaction needs to have two elements. First of all, on the defence spending, President
09:49Trump has consistently asked for the Europeans to do more. We had a pledge in Wales in 2014,
09:54and basically not a lot happened after 2014, and it really started to take off when he
09:59was president in post-2016, 2017, and particularly in 2018, 2019, up to today, including the
10:0720 per cent increase, 23 compared to 24. US, NATO allies, so excluding the US, Canada and
10:15the EU paying 20 per cent more, and we have to continue this. The good thing is that what
10:20we have in place now is a process based on NATO's defence planning process, which will
10:27lead to clarity on what needs to be done to keep us safe, the capability targets. From
10:33there we will see where the gaps are, and we know already that it probably will be in
10:37the area of missile defence, air missile defence, in the area of logistics, military mobility,
10:44long-range weapons, but also to increase the strength of our armies. Yes, the Navy, and
10:52of course our Air Force, but particularly when it comes to our armies, we'll have to
10:57do more, including making sure that they can fight prolonged wars, and that they will be
11:03more heavily armed, including with tanks. And all this costs money. We are now getting
11:06those numbers on the table, and this is the big difference with 2014. There it was, let's
11:12do two per cent. Now we will have a content-driven debate. How do we fill the gap between where
11:18we are and where we have to be? And I expect this to be north of three per cent, I said
11:24before, but I'm not committing to a number now, because we are still at the early stage
11:29in exactly coming to the details. And then on Europe and the rest of the world, I think
11:36when we discuss this with our American colleagues within NATO, there is a clear joint assessment
11:43that what happens in Ukraine or what happens in Europe, and particularly now in Ukraine,
11:48is not only Russia, Ukraine, or Russia, Europe. It also involves North Korea, China, Iran.
11:57So there is an interconnection now between what happens in the North Atlantic and in
12:02the Euro-Atlantic area on the one hand, but also in the Pacific on the other hand. And
12:06that means that all these theatres are getting intertwined, and that means from a strategic
12:12point of view, we have to make sure that we assess them like this. But I completely
12:17understand that the Americans want the Europeans and the Canadians to pay more. And again,
12:23back to the first question, we are assessing exactly what needs to be done based on the
12:27capability target process.
12:29All right. Ukraine, public broadcasting.
12:32Thank you. One of the possible points of US peace plan is to postpone Ukraine's accessions
12:42for NATO for several years or even decades. What's your position on that? And short of
12:47NATO membership, how can NATO allies provide Ukraine security guarantees after possible
12:52ceasefire? Thank you.
12:54We have one problem here, and that is that we have democracy, and that means that journalists
12:59ask questions to the politicians coming in, to me as Secretary General, and that is great.
13:05The big difference, of course, with Moscow is that Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is not
13:08facing this, so he can keep his ideas close to himself. And I do not want him to be wiser
13:16than he is already. He is sitting there in that reclining chair, awaiting what I'm going
13:19to say here and others will say at NATO. I know two things. One, we have to make sure
13:24that Ukraine is in the best possible position whenever talks will start about the future
13:30of this conflict. And when we have brought it to a conclusion, that that conclusion,
13:36that the outcome of that discussion, the peace deal or whatever it will be, has to
13:41be durable, enduring, has to be concrete, carved in stone, that he will never ever again
13:48try to attack one square kilometre or one square mile of Ukraine. These two things are
13:54for me crucial. And then we can easily brainstorm about the best way forward, including NATO,
14:01other countries getting involved, exactly how to do that. But again, it makes him wiser
14:06than he should be. This is all part, of course, of future talks within the Alliance and then
14:12to a certain extent probably also with him. But let's not make him wiser than he is already.
14:20DPA, up in the back here.
14:33Thank you. Ansgar Haase, German Press Agency, DPA. Secretary General, according to new calculations,
14:39Russia spent more on the military and armament last year than all European allies combined.
14:46Do you consider these calculations credible? And if so, how do you assess these findings?
14:54Well, I mean, we can always go through the numbers and then probably hint at one or two
14:59points where they are not correct or overcorrect or whatever. But let's look at the bigger
15:03picture here. And the bigger picture is that Russia at this moment is spending 40% of its
15:08state budget on defence, is spending almost 10% of its national income on defence. And
15:13of course, you have to have the purchasing power figured in those numbers. I understand
15:18that that has been done. So for me, it is also confirmation of the fact of what I tried
15:24to say in my speech in December, that yes, we are safe now. Our deterrence and defence
15:29is strong at this moment, but not in four or five years. If we do not take some difficult
15:35decisions this year about, yes, Ukraine, obviously, but also about defence spending doing much,
15:41much more than the 2% we pledged in wills. And those not yet on 2%, please get there
15:47before summer. But also on production, we have to make sure that we produce enough.
15:52And this is a problem not only for the European part of NATO, but also the US part of NATO.
15:57Because all of us from California up to and including Ankara, we are not producing enough.
16:02We have to do more, more shifts, more production lines.
16:07Interfax Ukraine.
16:15Thank you, Secretary General.
16:16Good afternoon.
16:17Good afternoon.
16:18Good afternoon.
16:19Good afternoon.
16:20Irina Sombor, News Agency, Interfax Ukraine. Question regarding today Rammstein Group.
16:25What is your expectation? What kind of outcome can be from this meeting? Will it die? Will
16:31it survive? And if it will survive, what kind of role can play in this?
16:38Well, clearly you need both. Because what the Rammstein format, the UDCG is doing is
16:44making sure that allies and other countries outside NATO commit to make sure that Ukraine
16:49has what it needs in terms of particularly support with concrete material to fight the
16:57war against Russia. And I already mentioned some of the big announcements last couple
17:02of two weeks from Canada, Sweden, the Netherlands, and France. And no doubt, I hope today, but
17:09also the coming days, you will see new announcements coming out. So you need that format.
17:14And then you need to – and set you to make sure that you organize all the aid being delivered
17:20into Ukraine in the best possible way, that it has maximum use for you guys in Ukraine
17:25to fight the war, plus, of course, making sure that the training takes place. Because
17:30what you need is – and the defense gear to defend yourself, the tanks and the anti-ballistic
17:38– I mean the anti-aircraft – sorry, the air defense systems and everything you need
17:44to defend yourselves and to fight the war, but also the training. And that is what – and
17:47set you as organizing. So we need those two. So I think there's a future for both.
17:53All right. Echo Radio. Here in the front, in the center.
18:05Hello. My name is Artem Vesedin. I am from Echo. This is Russian media in exile. So my
18:11question is – I was once on your station when you were still in Moscow in 2011.
18:15Thank you so much. Danish intelligence reports that Russia is preparing to attack a U.S.
18:23or EU country. And if so, why isn't NATO preparing for war instead of waiting for Russia
18:30to weaken in Ukraine? Some NATO members predict a Russian attack in five to ten years. Does
18:39NATO share this view? And what timeline does it consider most realistic?
18:44Let me not comment on everything coming out of the intelligence community, which I take
18:50very seriously, and in this case what comes out of the Danish intelligence community.
18:56But it is of course – we have to take note of this. But let me bring it back to what
19:00I said before. And that is that at the moment, if Putin would attack NATO, the reaction will
19:06be devastating. He will lose. So let him not try it. And he knows this. The deterrence
19:12and defense is very strong. What we have to make sure of is that four or five years from
19:16now, given his speed of ramping up his defense industry production and all the other stuff,
19:23but also look at what China is doing in having a thousand nuclear warheads by 2030, investing
19:28heavily in its navy, the quality of everything they're producing now at a level that is really
19:34comparable to what you're doing within NATO territory. And that is why we need to do the
19:40three things. Ukraine, one, making sure that we spend more, considerably more, to make
19:47sure that we are able to defend ourselves also in four or five years. And we need to
19:50take those decisions this year. And three, making sure that we have what we need to defend
19:57ourselves. And that is the defense industrial base. And the problem there is we have fantastic
20:01companies all over Europe and Turkey and Norway and the UK and in the US and in Canada, but
20:07they're not producing enough. They're not producing enough. And my expectation is in four or five
20:11years, given all the money going around, the order books of Thales and of Rheinmetall and
20:18Leonardo, but also Raytheon and Boeing and the big defense companies in Turkey and Norway,
20:23UK, they will be filled. But hopefully they will also have put in place, and this is really
20:28crucial, the production lines and the shifts to make sure that we get the stuff sooner rather
20:34than later. Because otherwise, we have the money, but we can still not defend ourselves.
20:39So we need to do, plus we have to make sure Ukraine prevails.
20:42NOS.
20:43Thanks a lot, Dutch NOS. Secretary General, you started stating that you are in close
20:52contact, of course, with Trump's administration, meaning you are well informed. What then do
20:59you consider as a very unexpected, even bad news, Pete Hexet might come up with? And will
21:08you be surprised for these kind of surprises, prepared for these surprises?
21:13Well, what the US is consistently doing, and this was Trump in his first term, it is again
21:20the present administration doing, is telling the European-Canadian side of NATO, hey, guys,
21:25you have to spend more. One, because we need it collectively to defend ourselves. And secondly,
21:31because if we spend more and we come closer to what the US is spending, or we can level
21:36with them, it means that where they are about half of NATO economy and the other 31 are
21:42the other half, that it is fairer. And it is common sense to do that. I mean, it's clear
21:46that we have to do this. And then, of course, on defense production, we have a collective
21:52problem, not just Europe and Canada, but including the US, because they're also not
21:56producing enough. And by the way, we spend four times more in the US than they spend
22:03in Europe. So financially, it's also a good deal for the US. But OK, that's not for me
22:08to comment on. But I would think, hey, this is also financially very helpful. So we need
22:12Americans to also ramp up defense production on their side. And they will get a lot of
22:17money out of that, as France, Germany, and Italy, and Turkey, Norway, and the UK will
22:22get a lot of money out of it, because we need all these defense companies to do this.
22:26And then on Ukraine, we need to make sure that they get in the best possible place whenever
22:30talks will start. And this is what we are discussing together, also assessing the fact
22:36that these so-called theaters, the Euro-Atlantic and the Indo-Pacific are more and more intertwined,
22:44because we know that North Korea, China are part of this, and a bad deal on Ukraine will
22:49be watched by Xi Jinping and the other senior leaders in Beijing. And it might give them
22:54some ideas on some of their strategic goals they want to pursue in the region.
23:00All right. TVR, Moldova.
23:09Thank you. Vadim Keptenarov, Republic of Moldova, Secretary General. In an extremely important
23:16election year for the Republic of Moldova, Russia is diversifying and perfecting its
23:21arsenal of hybrid war in our country. So how far could Putin go, and what can stop him?
23:30And by the way, half an hour ago, a Russian drone, another Russian drone, fell down on
23:35our territory again. Thank you.
23:37Well, first of all, maybe we should stop calling it hybrid, because hybrid sounds cuddly, nice,
23:44lovely. It is not. It is really state-sponsored sabotage, and in some cases, even state-sponsored
23:51terrorism. And at least it is destabilizing, trying to destabilize Moldova and the rest
23:58of Europe, Canada, and the U.S. And as I said in my short introduction, this includes assassination
24:03attempts, jamming airplanes, what you're experiencing in Moldova, but also attacks on the National
24:09Health Service in the U.K. There are many examples. And this is why I'm so glad that
24:14as NATO, where we used to assess what was happening, we are now much more active in
24:20reacting to it together with our allies. Take Baltic Century. We brought together that whole
24:25activity thanks to General Cavoli, under his responsibilities. We brought it together with
24:31our allies in just 10 days. So the NATO system is able to do this fast. And we need to react
24:40to these type of so-called cyber attacks, these destabilizing activities, much faster.
24:47And we will do that, because we are not at war. We are not at peace either, as I said
24:53before. And this is one of the examples.
24:58Q Thank you. I'm Ahmed Krasnici from Dugadzini Television in Kosovo. Secretary General, can
25:07you comment on the recent elections in Kosovo and on the implication for the future relations
25:14between NATO and Kosovo? Thank you.
25:16SECRETARY GENERAL STOLTENBERG Of course, we follow what is happening in
25:19Kosovo keenly, in Pristina. But of course, this is a democratic process. My understanding
25:24is that there are initial results, but as far as I know, until today, not a final result.
25:30The Electoral Committee will still report on the final results. And based on the initial
25:36results, it seems that there will be a coalition government. And of course, we will make sure
25:41that we will work with whoever is leading the country. And of course, we wish the Kosovo
25:47politicians well in navigating the political landscape and making sure that there is a
25:52stable government as soon as possible.
25:54Q All right. Radio Free Europe.
25:59Q Thank you, Secretary General. If I may just quick follow up on the question of my colleagues.
26:10So you mentioned in Davos that if U.S. decides to continue support for Ukraine, Europe should
26:17cover the bill. Could you please specify, does it mean completely cover the bill or
26:22partly cover the bill? And how does it go to – how do you going to ramp up the production
26:30inside and also spend much more money on American weapons for Ukraine? Thank you.
26:35SECRETARY GENERAL STOLTENBERG I think there are a couple of issues in your
26:38question. One, of course, is to make sure that the stuff is there, the military support
26:43is there. And in many cases, it comes out of our stockpiles. Sometimes you can order
26:48it from the defense industry, but obviously then it is not available and ready the next
26:52day. And we know that Ukraine itself has a really impressive defense industrial base.
27:01And we know that Lithuania and Denmark, with other countries, Canada and others are involved,
27:06you have opened your defense industrial base for NATO allies to buy there and then procure
27:11from that and then to deliver it into Ukraine, which is also helping your economy. So that
27:16is the issue of how to get the stuff to Ukraine you need. And then on – and who will pay
27:22for this? It is my assumption that there will be more of a pressure on European allies to
27:29step up in terms of also the financial bill. That's my assumption.
27:34BBC Russia
27:40Hi, my name is Elisaveta Fok from the BBC Russian Service. Thank you for this opportunity.
27:45I wanted to ask you that given recent reports that communications between Moscow and Washington
27:49specifically regarding the war in Ukraine have significantly intensified, do you believe
27:55that NATO as an institution should maybe initiate a direct dialogue with Russia on the matter
28:01of what is the level of communication is right now? And additionally, is there a risk you
28:06think that such close engagement between White House and Moscow – and we're seeing some
28:11mixed messages coming out of this conversation – can marginalize other NATO allies in discussions
28:17concerning Ukraine and European security? Thank you.
28:19Yeah, well, when there are contacts between the US and Russia, NATO is more than 50% US.
28:26So in that sense, this alliance, the one ally is over 50% in terms of its economic
28:32power of this alliance. So in that sense, I'm not worried if there are contacts because
28:37we are all collectively involved within this alliance. But as I said before, I'm not going
28:42to speculate about whatever talks are ongoing and who should do what. We really have to
28:47keep the eye on the ball. And the eye on the ball means that we have to know the two goals
28:52we have. One is to make sure that we change the trajectory of what is happening in Ukraine
28:57and make sure that they are in the best possible position whenever talks will start. But we
29:03also have to make sure that whenever they are concluded, that the outcome is there to
29:09stay, will not be challenged by Putin half a year or a year or two years later, like
29:16what happened with Crimea.
29:19Rustavi, too.
29:24I'll change my work. I'm Eros Covnaubat from Georgia. So, of course, NATO is a military
29:33organization, but at the same time a political organization based on common values. In this
29:39case, how do you see, what's your estimation about recent developments in Esperanto country,
29:46Georgia? I want to now stress on my colleague Zia Marlobeli's case. She's on a hunger strike,
29:55more than one month in a jail. And finally, also, how do you see future and recent cooperation
30:02between NATO and Georgia militarily? Thank you.
30:06I have already commented before on the outcome of the Georgian elections and also on our
30:11wish, of course, for Georgia to stay on a path towards NATO, towards the European Union,
30:18in line with our values of democracy and the rule of law and human rights. But I think
30:26I should refrain from doing that every time again, because I did already. And obviously
30:32we are closely following what's happening in Georgia with some worry, you can be assured.
30:39All right, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.
30:47Thanks a lot, Thomas Gutschke, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. Secretary General, two
30:51questions, please. The first one, this morning, the new US Secretary of Defense, Pete Hexett,
30:57said on X when he entered, or after he entered the building, that NATO needs to become stronger
31:03and more lethal. How do you read this more lethal part? What would it imply in practice?
31:10And the second question, you mentioned yourself that this threshold north of 3% that you've
31:17given in the European Parliament a few weeks ago, what would be a realistic timeframe for
31:23reaching a new defense investment pledge? And what is the reactions, the feedback you
31:31have received from allies so far on this?
31:34Well, first, lethal, he is totally right. NATO has to be a lethal organization, otherwise
31:40we cannot keep the deterrence going. And that's crucial. And as we discussed before, we have
31:47seen the rearmament of Russia and the threat that is posing. Your colleague was just asking
31:53that question from Echo News Agency, unfortunately now in exile. So it is crucial that Russia's
32:04rearmament is met by us and that our mindset has to be that we are willing to protect every
32:11inch of NATO territory. And we will, not only now, and this is my plea, not only now, but
32:17also in the future. And this comes to your second question, that means that if we would
32:21stick to the 2%, we cannot defend ourselves in four or five years. We have to spend more.
32:26And not because I want some new target, but because when you look at what we are doing
32:32now, allies have asked us to do this. We do this together with allies, assessing the gaps
32:37we have between where we are and where we should be to defend ourselves in four or five
32:41years. There are simply too big those gaps to be filled by 2%. You will end up considerably
32:49in the north of three, is my assumption at the moment. We will see later exactly what
32:53that number should be. And of course, including the timeline, I am not going to speculate
32:57now about the timeline, but again, I would say rather sooner than later. And it has to
33:02be a credible timeline, so no repeat of what we did in 2014, committed to 2% and then nothing
33:08happened for the first couple of years. That is simply unacceptable. And not because only
33:13Donald Trump, President Trump is asking us to do this, but because we have to defend
33:17ourselves. One billion people to keep them safe. That is why we need to do that.
33:22And obviously, when I discuss this with political leaders, there is always the emotion and the
33:28ratio. So rationally, they see the argument. But at the same time, of course, when you
33:33are a politician, you have to make your choices in scarcity. And that means that you have
33:38to take decisions at the national level to make sure that the money is there, which is
33:41not always easy, but still it needs to be done. And I think the large majority of political
33:46leaders understand that.
33:47All right, we have time for one more question. Anadolu.
34:00Turkish News Agency, Anadolu. As you mentioned several times now, considering Turkey's defense
34:06capabilities that you witnessed during your visit to Ankara recently, what messages will
34:10you convey to the allied ministers about the role that Turkey can play for empowering the
34:15alliance's defense industry, in particular Europe's, as well as for achieving peace in
34:20Ukraine, in the light of the fact that the new U.S. administration is pushing for that?
34:26Can I say that the Turkish defense industrial base is really impressive? There are a couple
34:32of hundred organizations working on the innovation side. There are a couple of thousand companies
34:39involved. Part of the Turkish Secretariat for the Defense Industry I met in Ankara,
34:45but he also visited me here. They had the chief of that agency directly reporting into
34:51the president, into President Erdogan's office, so that is really important. And I know there
34:57is a close cooperation between what you are doing in Turkey with other allies all over
35:03Europe, and with the U.S., and you are really supplying some of the most important parts
35:08and sometimes end products in terms of what the Turkish industry is producing. And we
35:13can only ask you to do more. Whatever you can do in Turkey to ramp it up, to do more,
35:20to have even more shifts and more production lines, my prediction is in four or five years
35:25you will see them all filled to max capacity, because the money is there. And the same goes
35:29for Naval and Thales in France, and for Leonardo in Italy, and for Rheinmetall in Germany,
35:34and for all the MBAE in the UK, and all the other proud defense industry companies in
35:40Europe, and Raytheon, and Boeing, and Lockheed Martin, and all the other companies in the
35:45U.S. We really have to do that. So let's not discuss too much what we need to do in terms
35:52of stimulating that defense industry. No, tell them the money is there. Produce, produce,
35:57produce, and make sure that we stay safe here. Thank you.
36:02All right. Thank you, everyone. We'll see you tomorrow afternoon after the ministerial.