During a House Appropriations Committee hearing on Thursday, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) questioned VA Secretary Doug Collins about his department's lack of reprogramming requests.
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00:00Thank you. Ms. Wozman-Chulz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Collins, you've made some
00:05bold claims about cutting staff and programs while redirecting so-called savings to medical
00:09care and other benefits for veterans, but so far that's all been blanket assertion without any
00:14evidence or proof to this committee or to the veterans that you've made these claims to.
00:19First, you claimed that $14 million saved from canceling DEI programs would go towards medical
00:23care, but our committee has not seen any evidence of this. The committee did not receive a
00:28reprogramming request on this, and our follow-up questions remain unanswered. Second, you claimed
00:33that $1.8 billion saved from canceled contracts would go towards medical care. Again, no proof,
00:39no data, no evidence, no reprogramming requests on this either, and once more, our follow-up
00:44questions went unanswered. Third, you claimed $98 million saved from firing the first round of
00:49probationary employees and redirecting those funds to support health care benefits. And once again,
00:54no evidence, no reprogramming request or even notification of it, and our follow-up questions
00:59remain unanswered. And fourth, you claimed as one of your accomplishments in the first 99 days that you
01:05and I, quote, redirected hundreds of millions of dollars from non-mission critical efforts to
01:10health care benefits and services that directly support VA beneficiaries. Again, this is yet another
01:15claim made without any real evidence, notification, reprogramming requests, or even answers to the many
01:21questions our committee has asked. My question to you directly is, have any of the funds I've referenced
01:26been moved to new accounts?
01:30In taking, I've tried to keep up with your four questions. I'll start at the end. The reprogramming,
01:35especially of contracts that was announced and was sent to Congress on April 24th, was regarding the
01:40intent to transfer funds generated from our reform efforts. There's $343 million that were, went to support VA
01:45community care and to ensure veterans have health care choices promised under the Bipartisan Mission Act
01:49of 2018. That was sent, like I said, and notification was made on April 24th going forward.
01:55Okay, if we can just address one at a time. So, you're required to send us a reprogramming request,
02:02not a notification. You are required to seek our approval. You were a member of Congress. You're aware
02:07of that, and you have not done that. You still owe us answers on why you sent a notification instead of a
02:12reprogramming. You didn't send us a plan. We're asking you for a plan. A two-page notification
02:19with one briefing does not give us any real information on what exactly you'll be doing
02:23with these funds. Remember, we're happy to continue our conversation. No, I would like an answer. We have
02:28sent everything we're supposed to send you. We sent notification on April 24th. No, you have not. Reclaiming my time. That's fine. You are required to send us
02:34a reprogramming. I will cite the sections of our Appropriations Act to ensure that you can be clear
02:42on that. I encourage you to look at sections 227, 229, 230, and 231, which provide very clear guidelines
02:49for when and how you need to involve this committee when you decide to move funding around. We have
02:54several provisions, all included there in our Annual Appropriations Act, that details our transfer and
02:59reprogramming requirements. It's the law. So, what I want to know today is, can I get your commitment
03:06that you will work with this committee to request approval through reprogramming requests? If you've
03:12moved these funds, and are you confirming today that you've moved those funds? We have moved that, as we
03:17sent to you on April, that we have done that. We gave the notice, and following OMB guidance, and also
03:22qualifying as we go forward. That is our commitment, and that is what we're required to do. No, you are not.
03:27I, so you're. INSV CHAWDA says that we're, and we're following that, which is most administrations
03:32have followed. Sorry, you're following. CHAWDA has said, we will give you the, our approval.
03:36We will show you, we do not have to come, we're giving you notice of what we're reprogramming.
03:38You do, reclaiming my time. You do have to come forward. I mean, we're disagreeing here.
03:41There's not a lot of, this is not a reprogramming issue. So, so it is a reprogramming request.
03:45It is, and we gave you notice. You can't, okay. The law that we passed. The law is CHAWDA, which we do not have to.
03:51Reclaiming my chance. This is not there. Reclaiming my time, Mr. Secretary. Okay.
03:54The law, under the Appropriations Act, in sections 227, 229, 230, and 231, give you very clear guidelines.
04:03The law requires you to ask Congress's approval through a reprogramming request.
04:09This shouldn't be a difficult thing to get you to agree to. I'm just asking you to follow the law.
04:14So, I, I'll ask you again. Will you follow the law that is written out clearly in the Appropriations Act?
04:20I'm reminding the ranking member of the law as well, under CHAWDA, and following OMB guidance.
04:24No, no. When we pass, reclaiming my time, we're, we're going to.
04:28We're just, we're at impasse here. I mean, we're going to, we'll be happy to work with you.
04:31This isn't, I just want to make clear that the committee understands that the way this secretary and this administration
04:36has interacted with Congress on moving hundreds of millions of dollars from one account to the next is unprecedented.
04:43They are required under Appropriations Law to request through a reprogramming to move those funds.
04:51I have not, in all the time that I have been on this committee, and in every year I've been on this committee,
04:55I've been in a leadership role, experienced a secretary who has not submitted reprogramming requests
05:01and just seems to think that they, all they have to do is let us know.
05:05That is ridiculous, and we need, we will continue, we will, we'll pursue this vigorously, Mr. Secretary.
05:11And I agree with the lady.
05:13We expect that to, is the way.
05:14We'll continue to give you what we have to follow in our guidance.
05:17The chairman and I are in agreement.
05:20We want it done the way it said, she has just said.
05:22It's been done that way. I've been on this committee for 20 years.
05:26It's been done that way 20 years. We're not going to change it now.
05:30Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
05:31Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.