For over 26 years, Dr. Joyce F. Brown has been a transformative leader at the Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT), shaping the future of fashion education and the industry itself. As the first Black woman to lead FIT, she broke ground and redefined the institution's role in a rapidly changing world. Dr. Brown reflects on her journey, from her early career to her vision for FIT, and the challenges and opportunities she encountered along the way. She discusses the crucial impact of technology, the importance of diversity and inclusion, and FIT's innovative programs that are preparing the next generation of creative leaders.
Dr. Brown also shares insights into FIT's unique collaborations with industry, including the DTech Lab, where students tackle real-world challenges for major brands. From reimagining Girl Scout uniforms to exploring the potential of AI in design, FIT is at the forefront of innovation.
00:00 – Intro: Dr. Joyce Brown's Transformative Leadership
00:27 – Breaking Ground at FIT: A Historic Appointment
00:49 – From Psychology PhD to Education Leadership
02:07 – The Role of Psychology in Leading Creatives
03:30 – Navigating Change: Technology and a Post-COVID World
05:46 – AI, 3D, and the Evolution of Design
08:35 – FIT: Beyond Fashion Design
11:39 – Guiding Students to Their Creative Niche
12:44 – FIT's Responsiveness to Real-World Challenges
14:22 – FIT Alumni: Shaping the Industry
16:07 – The DTech Lab: A Hub for Creative Solutions
20:07 – FIT's Expanding Influence in Consumer Retail
21:34 – The Social Justice Center: Creating Opportunity and Access
25:14 – Dr. Brown's Reflections and Future Plans
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Dr. Brown also shares insights into FIT's unique collaborations with industry, including the DTech Lab, where students tackle real-world challenges for major brands. From reimagining Girl Scout uniforms to exploring the potential of AI in design, FIT is at the forefront of innovation.
00:00 – Intro: Dr. Joyce Brown's Transformative Leadership
00:27 – Breaking Ground at FIT: A Historic Appointment
00:49 – From Psychology PhD to Education Leadership
02:07 – The Role of Psychology in Leading Creatives
03:30 – Navigating Change: Technology and a Post-COVID World
05:46 – AI, 3D, and the Evolution of Design
08:35 – FIT: Beyond Fashion Design
11:39 – Guiding Students to Their Creative Niche
12:44 – FIT's Responsiveness to Real-World Challenges
14:22 – FIT Alumni: Shaping the Industry
16:07 – The DTech Lab: A Hub for Creative Solutions
20:07 – FIT's Expanding Influence in Consumer Retail
21:34 – The Social Justice Center: Creating Opportunity and Access
25:14 – Dr. Brown's Reflections and Future Plans
Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
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More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Hi, everyone. I'm Maggie McGrath, editor of Forbes Women. For the last three decades,
00:08our next guest has been a transformative force in education and fashion, at the intersection of
00:14both, in fact, as the president of the Fashion Institute of Technology here in New York City.
00:19She was the first black woman appointed to the role when she took her position in 1998.
00:25Dr. Brown, thank you so much for being here.
00:27Thank you so much for the invitation. It's my pleasure.
00:29So, let's go back to the very beginning, when you broke ground being named president of this institution.
00:37You are a PhD in psychology, is that correct?
00:40Yes.
00:41Did you imagine taking over an educational institution dedicated to fashion, having gotten your PhD in psychology?
00:49Well, you know, it's interesting. I've spent my entire career, really, in public higher education.
00:55So, for many years, I worked for the City University of New York. FIT is part of State University. So, similar animals, but very different institutions.
01:07And so, I was working in a college while I pursued my PhD. I was putting myself through graduate school, essentially.
01:19I always say I'm the mailroom story of a college because I did every job. And so, it was through that process that I realized that I thought I could do a better job than what I was seeing.
01:34I, you know, that we had to always keep in mind that the institutions really are there to further the opportunity and the progress of students.
01:46And the bureaucracy can oftentimes overtake that. And so, I was very motivated to move through the ranks and get to run an institution in the way I thought it should be run.
02:00So, no, I don't, it, it, it, getting the PhD in psychology, which helps immensely, believe me.
02:07How? I was going to ask. Because, obviously, fashion is creative. And I know you work on the business side with students.
02:14I've heard you say that students don't all become fashion designers, some become executives.
02:18Right, right.
02:19But, pulling back, creativity often involves mental awareness, good psychology. But how, how has your degree in psychology helped what you do at FIT?
02:28Well, in a number of ways. First of all, I think the training teaches you how to listen. You're, you know, I always say I have like a 30 or I hear, I'm listening, I'm listening for cues.
02:42I'm listening because I really want to understand what it is you're trying to convey, what it is you think you need or want or that I should be aware of from my position if I'm going to really try and have a joint kind of productive relationship within an institution.
03:03So there's that. But then it's also, I'm in a community of very creative people. So there's, shall we say, drama from time to time. And I can always threaten to bring in my couch.
03:16You know, we can either solve this through conversation or we can bring in the couch and we can really understand what's underneath all of this drama we're experiencing. So I think it helps in a lot of different ways.
03:29That's so interesting. As you look back over your tenure thus far, the world has changed obviously so much since 1998. What has been the biggest challenge as, as you look at education or as you look at fashion in guiding your students?
03:44Oh, there's just so many things. And of course, we all seem to identify our world pre and post COVID. So certainly many things changed from 1998, the impact of technology specifically.
03:59But then comes COVID and everything, absolutely everything in your life changed. You know, the way you get information, the way you're entertained, the way you interact, the way you dress, you know, whether you travel, how you work.
04:14So all of those things naturally are going to impact running a big institution that needs to serve people at varying levels of development and interest.
04:29So I but I think, you know, to go back to aside from our adjustments as a result of COVID, I think the whole impact of technology was really very critical over these last two decades.
04:44Because it impacts how designing is done, how, you know, the whole notion of sustainability in the fashion world and waste and how you control the use of resources, whether that's fabrics and textiles or water and dyes.
05:05And all of that was really just at the beginning of bursting and taking over the focus and the interest of the students.
05:16And this generation is it's very important. It is very important for this generation to feel that they are doing something to protect the planet.
05:25Because we really haven't taken very good care of the planet and we're handing it over with great pride and, you know, ceremony.
05:34But the fact of the matter is we need the there there needs to be activities and processes put in place that protect the resources that are left.
05:45As we look at the designers who come across our radar for the Forbes 30 under 30 list, we often see sustainability and maybe not just designers e-commerce, too.
05:54It is a word. It is a mission that comes up over and over and over again.
05:59Yeah.
06:00And technology, too. I'm sure AI is a deep consideration for your students these days.
06:07Well, yeah, AI, you know, and, you know, 3D and all the various ways that you can experiment and create new and different ways of achieving your goals from a creative muse sort of aspect.
06:24Where you don't have to waste resources to find and see how your design would look in a new and different way.
06:31So, you know, I think that aside from AI, excuse me, the just the whole way in which you can, in fact, have a three dimensional object.
06:43You can change the background, you can change the fabric without ever using any of the material resources that that should entail.
06:53And the other thing is with AI, you know, everybody is talking about AI and I think there's a lot of fear about AI.
07:01It's going to take over jobs. It's going to, you know, how are we ever going to know what's authentic and who created what?
07:07But, you know, if you think back, well, you know, maybe I've been around long enough to be able to think back and remember that same kind of fear when the Internet was, you know, at its fledgling, you know, introduction to absolutely every aspect of our lives.
07:26And people were afraid it was going to take over jobs that we were not going to have, you know, the authentic, individualized, creative aspects of what individuals could create.
07:38And we've had the opportunity to do a number of programming with kids just as an example.
07:45We had some students that went to Italy last summer.
07:50We were able to put together the funds so that they could participate in a program right outside of Venice in a place called H Farm.
07:57H Farm is very interesting. They do a lot of technology.
08:00They started the whole Google Glass thing there.
08:03At any rate, they were studying with Italian students and they were all figuring out the ways in which AI allowed them to be expansive in their design.
08:14And so it takes away some of the fear, you know, they apply it, they see, they see what they can create as a result.
08:20And it's been, you know, it's really been an advancement for what they're able to learn and do and experiment and see their way clear to forge new paths in design.
08:35It's cutting edge. I think sometimes I hear fashion and I picture just a sewing needle and a sketchbook.
08:41Yeah.
08:42But it's so much more than that.
08:43What are the other misconceptions that you see about FIT students or about the work that FIT does?
08:48Well, you know, in 1998 when I arrived, FIT's reputation or what it seemed to be known most for was certainly fashion design but also as a feeder for the garment industry.
09:02You know, that our students were going to come out and they were going to start at the bottom and they were going to run sewing machines and be on a line, I guess, and, you know, maybe do handwork.
09:11But it really wasn't about a lifestyle, you know, a lifestyle of majors and programs that we really do offer for our students at this point.
09:23At that point they were sort of, you know, a no never mind part of it, an idea of things we might be able to do.
09:30I think that, you know, what we're able to do at this point is really understand the full impact.
09:40So we have almost 50 majors.
09:42Wow.
09:43Yeah.
09:44So we have a school of business, we have a school of art and design, we have a school of liberal arts, we have a graduate school.
09:49And what really struck me was this gold mine of talent that people weren't aware of, that, you know, we do from start to finish.
10:03You can have the idea of the concept of the design, you can create the product, you can do the merchandising, you can do the advertising, you can do the marketing.
10:11I mean, we have international trade, we have cosmetics and fragrance, we have toy design, we have programs that no one else has.
10:19And it is a rich reservoir of talent and subject matter experts at FIT.
10:27And what I wanted to do was create an environment where all those individuals could share their talents and work together.
10:37And at the same time, reach out and be in partnership with industry so that we were helping in their real world, you know, state of the art in instant kind of issues and challenges that they deal with on a daily basis.
10:55What we have are creative solutions, we have young minds with, you know, an incredible prism that they pass their thinking process through and come up with incredible designs and solutions.
11:09That diversity of subject matter is really important because I've seen this in interviewing founders.
11:13I talked to the founder of a cupcake company just yesterday, and she described herself as a creative first.
11:19And she was very reticent to be the CEO of her own company because she thought of herself as creative.
11:25But she has the leadership skills and the financial know-how and the marketing know-how to be a CEO.
11:31It sounds like the programs that you offer to your students allow folks who think of themselves as creatives to maybe find out how they could be executives or technologists.
11:39Well, you know, everybody who comes to FIT thinks they know what they're going to do for the rest of their lives.
11:45So we admit them into a program with a major, with a direction, with a goal.
11:50And oftentimes they learn that maybe that's not the way their talent is going to be best applied.
11:57But what we can do is show them the various levels at which you can apply those talents in different ways.
12:03Everybody's name is not going to be on the door, but everybody can in fact find the niche, you know, where they will, you know, make their contribution to the end, this muse that invades their being and needs to find its way out.
12:20So, you know, the opportunities for pulling together, creating interdisciplinary opportunities for these young people to really be able to make their mark and understand how they can fulfill their dream, really.
12:44How responsive do you have to be to the news cycle? And I ask because everything going on with tariffs right now, it affects supply chains, it affects the way designers and founders are looking at their own business.
12:54Do you add like an emergency like six weeks on how to manage your supply costs or is that something that they'll deal with in internships and real world experience?
13:02They'll deal with it in internships, they'll deal with it in classes. I mean, obviously the faculty, most of our faculty are individuals who have come, you know, from at some point through the ranks of the
13:13industry. And, you know, they will introduce what the impact is. Many of our alums come back and talk to the students. They are running companies. They have to make the adjustments.
13:26You know, I often say that what we're doing is we are training the next generation of leaders for these industries. So as creative as you may be, if you don't understand what the people you're paying have to deal with, you're really not going to be able to make the best decisions.
13:42And move your business along and be successful. So, you know, all of these issues, you know, the product development, the sustainability issues, the impact on the economic marketplace, the ways in which you have to deal in different cultural settings.
14:01All of those things become part of what we now talk about and introduce for them because it's very important and because we are, in fact, creating lifestyle industry executives that will go out and run the design world.
14:20Now, recognizing that all students are important to you and also that not every name will go on the door, as you said, but you do mention some alum come back to teach the students.
14:29Who are the FIT alumni who the Forbes audience might be surprised to learn got their start at FIT?
14:35Well, I hope they're not surprised, you know, because almost all of them got their start at FIT. You know, we just had a big gala and we had as our co-emcees, Michael Kors and Nina Garcia.
14:50And, you know, they're great supporters. You know, we have Calvin Klein is a name, you know, people will know. Francisco Costa, who, you know, was with Calvin Klein and then went on to his own name.
15:07I mean, you know, I have to be careful because I don't want to leave out anyone. There are. It's a myriad of names.
15:14B. Michael is a is a designer that, you know, does couture beautiful and as well as lifestyle made in America kinds of things.
15:25Dennis Basso. You know, we really we we cut across, you know, beauty executives that are, you know, in, you know, running the big companies
15:36or a part of the Estee Lauder family or, you know, just so many levels of so many things. We do product development.
15:44Now, product development, people will wonder, or product management where, you know, does have to do with the supply chain and the inventory control.
15:53Those are not things that sound really exciting, but they're big names of people who got their start really understanding how to run all of those things through FIT.
16:03The other thing that we've done is start what we what is called our D tech lab, which is a design and tech lab and what how we utilize that.
16:13The reason I wanted to do that really was because just as we were witnessing these various changes that were happening to industry,
16:24industry was having to sort of understand how to solve new and different kinds of things that were coming across their desk,
16:33coming over the transom car, you know, needing to be faced. And there's nothing quite like the mindset of a creative 20 year old, you know.
16:43So we set up the D tech lab for companies to be able to come and say, this is our challenge. What what do you see as a as a pathway to a solution?
16:55And it's just been amazing in terms of the kind of solutions, creative solutions and the merging of the design thought process with the emerging technologies with the industry issues that need to be solved.
17:15So it's like a mini incubator. Yeah, it's a minute. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. It's a mini incubator. And, you know, it just gets better and better in terms of the kinds of issues that people will come to seek.
17:30You know, we have people that come with characters for Netflix that they're doing, you know, production and they want to know how the characters should be developed or how the wardrobe should look for to be realistic and current.
17:47You know, we've had Girl Scouts, the Girl Scouts came and they wanted a redesign of the uniforms because, you know, as wonderful as Girl Scouts are,
17:57girls today don't want to didn't want to look like little brownies, right? They wanted all the various kind of cool ways the uniform could look.
18:06And so that was redesigned by our students in partnership with them. A number of years ago, Tommy Hilfiger came and we worked with Tommy Hilfiger
18:20and IBM using their Watson technology, which I really think was a precursor to AI. And what essentially the task was, was to take what was the core DNA of the successful Tommy Hilfiger product and figure out what those core elements are,
18:44and then make it current and cool for young people today. And that's what our folks did. What they did was they took all those iconic core variables. They fed it through the Watson technology of IBM.
19:00And when they got a look at what the main variables and characteristics were, then they made it really cool. So they put sensors in that could change with your mood. So if you were happy, it was blue. If you were angry, it was red.
19:16And they had panels. And they had panels where you could have stripes or you could have plaits or you could have solids. So you had many outfits and many approaches and you could be, you know, cool.
19:24So anyway, those are the kinds of products and projects that people come to us with. Some of them, you know, some of them really unexpected, where we had a pharmaceutical company come and wanting to know how to,
19:40how to market solutions for what was essentially a very rare and difficult to diagnose illness that people would come to.
19:50Fascinating.
19:51I mean, the expanse is amazing.
19:53I was about to say, the expanse makes me think that FIT is kind of the quiet force, not just behind couture and fashion, high fashion, but really a lot of what consumers might be seeing across consumer retail.
20:05Absolutely. Absolutely.
20:06Absolutely.
20:07Is that because of your leadership or was that always FIT's legacy?
20:11Well, I would say it was my vision that when I saw the resources that FIT really had, it was like this little jewel in lower Manhattan that people didn't have enough of an understanding and view of what was possible.
20:34So it's really, it was really about changing the culture of a place. You know, people often ask me what I am most proud of for my time at FIT. I mean, amongst those things are the fact that we really changed the conversation.
20:50We changed what people's aspirations, expressed aspirations could be, what the goals were, what we thought we could achieve, what we thought our impact would be. And then we went about making it possible. I mean, you have to gain trust in a community that you're going to be supportive of the things that you're asking them to think about.
21:13And asking them to recognize can be part of the legacy, the statement, what becomes the MO of the place, the DNA, what we're really producing, what our impact is on the larger community.
21:33When you talk about impact and also vision, you, I think, are the force behind the Social Justice Center at FIT. Can you talk about that and why that was so important?
21:42Well, you know, for many years, there's been a lot of conversation about how the industry writ large, you know, the retail industry, the creative industry, was not diversified in its point of view.
22:00That there was an understanding, that there was an understanding, that there was an understanding, a statement about what was couture, what was beauty.
22:09And that there were many people in society, many segments of our society that were not represented by those iconic views of what was beautiful and what we ought to be striving for.
22:23And there was always a lot of talk and there was always, you know, these programmatic efforts that didn't really go anywhere to diversify, to diversify the point of view, you know.
22:35And then we had, you know, that the reckoning in, you know, 2020 was quite the year.
22:43I mean, we had COVID, we had the death of George Floyd, we had the whole Black Lives Matter movement.
22:49And, you know, a number of things these days in the political and social arena are denigrated as being, you know, handouts for people.
23:03This was not what we were talking about.
23:05We were talking about identifying real talent that not only deserve to be given an opportunity to develop and make a contribution to the design world and the business world,
23:21but to really for the betterment of the bottom line of the companies to understand how you might expand your product line, expand the textiles, expand the colors, expand the size, you know, dimensions of who you were really reaching out to serve.
23:40You were not just needing to speak to if you wanted to be successful and really serve all of your constituents.
23:47You needed to go beyond, you know, the size two, you know, $4,000 outfit, but really understand what would speak to many different individuals within the society.
24:01So here was a moment when, you know, there was all this heightened awareness.
24:06There was a lot of talk about the lack of diversity and the disenfranchisement of so many elements.
24:15So we thought it was an opportunity and a time, I thought, to really develop, you know, an opportunity to take very talented individuals
24:27and provide the access and the opportunity for them to fulfill their talent and create a pathway and a pipeline.
24:39We wanted to work with the companies so that the companies would have these young people as interns, apprentices, full-time employees, ultimately.
24:49So we would build the pipeline and create a pathway between FIT and the industry.
24:56So that's how the Social Justice Center started.
25:00We've got some incredible young people coming through who will be poised to make their contribution,
25:06not because people gave them something, but because we created an opportunity for them to succeed.
25:12So what is next for you and how do you look at the next year?
25:17Well, you know, I could do this forever.
25:21I mean, I have lots of ideas and I think, you know, we've really created an environment where people are really excited
25:30and motivated to do more and better things.
25:33One of the things I always said was that I wouldn't leave before we built a building.
25:37We have now built a new building.
25:40I don't suggest most people decide to build a building in the middle of New York City.
25:44It took, you know, a good 15 to 17 years to get it done.
25:4928th Street?
25:50Huh?
25:51On 28th Street?
25:52On 28th, yes.
25:53And it's gorgeous.
25:54It is absolutely gorgeous.
25:55It's going to make such a difference in the environment for teaching and learning.
25:58At any rate, I said it's probably time to step down.
26:02Everybody can benefit from new ideas and new energy coming into a place.
26:07I am, you know, talking to people about what might be next.
26:11I, you know, I think I have a lot of energy and a lot of skills at putting together complex, working in complex organizations
26:24and getting people to work together.
26:25So I'm anxious to put that to good use in the next little while.
26:30Well, we'll have to have you back so you can report on what you are doing then.
26:34It will be it.
26:35But for now, Dr. Joyce Brown, thank you so much for sitting down with Forrest.
26:38Thank you so much.
26:39It was a lovely time.
26:42Okay.
26:43Thank you so much.