Blake Resnick, founder and CEO of Brinc, joins Forbes Talks to discuss how the 2017 mass shooting in Las Vegas, where he grew up, motivated him to focus on building technology for first responders. Resnick also recounts his unconventional educational journey, starting college at age 14, and later dropping out to pursue a Thiel Fellowship.
Read the story on Forbes.com: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexyork/2024/05/24/openais-sam-altman-wrote-the-first-check-into-this-300-million-startup-now-its-creating-drones-for-911-emergencies/
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0:00 Introduction
4:12 Blake Resnick's Background And The Ideation Of Brinc
9:25 Navigating Being A Young CEO: Blake Resnick
15:51 Brinc's Founding Journey
20:55 Brinc And First Responders
25:28 Brinc And Drone Implementation
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Read the story on Forbes.com: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexyork/2024/05/24/openais-sam-altman-wrote-the-first-check-into-this-300-million-startup-now-its-creating-drones-for-911-emergencies/
Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1
0:00 Introduction
4:12 Blake Resnick's Background And The Ideation Of Brinc
9:25 Navigating Being A Young CEO: Blake Resnick
15:51 Brinc's Founding Journey
20:55 Brinc And First Responders
25:28 Brinc And Drone Implementation
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
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More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Hi, everyone. I'm Zoya Hassan, and I'm here with Blake Resnick, the founder and CEO of Brink.
00:09Blake, thank you so much for being here.
00:11Thank you for having me.
00:12So you have built this amazing company that's working with first responders all over the U.S.
00:18You're providing them with these high tech, high capability drones.
00:22But you were barely 18 years old when you started this company.
00:26So what made you take the leap into entrepreneurship and specifically in the public safety realm?
00:33Yeah, I mean, I've always loved the idea of maybe starting a company someday.
00:38I think like watching Iron Man when I was 11 or whatever influenced me a little bit.
00:43And I've always loved aerospace.
00:45So like I grew up reading about Skunk Works and Kelly Johnson, the development of the SR-71 and like all these amazing projects.
00:52But when I was really young, I couldn't really design a fighter jet, but I could design a drone.
00:58So that's how things started for me, like generally getting interested in the drone industry.
01:04But I knew people that were along the strip during the October 1 shooting, and I grew up in Vegas.
01:10So I never conceptualized before that building technology for first responders.
01:15But that event definitely pushed me in that direction.
01:20Yeah, that's an incredible kind of story to launch your company with.
01:26But how did you get started?
01:29And why like drones specifically?
01:33You know, I didn't actually.
01:34So after that event occurred, I reached out to Vegas' SWAT team and their SWAT commander.
01:40They agreed to have lunch with like 18-year-old me at the time, which I was grateful for.
01:45And in the beginning of that interaction, we talked, you know, initially a lot about what happened during October 1.
01:51But then the conversation broadened out to the rest of their jobs.
01:54You know, the high-risk warrant searches and barricades and hostage rescue missions that a team like Vegas Metro SWAT has to deal with on a daily basis.
02:03And I walked away from that interaction thinking that if they just had a way to get eyes and ears in dangerous places, that that would be a life-saving capability.
02:12And whatever like carries around the camera payload and like the 2A audio system is sort of secondary.
02:18But they do need a way to get all of those sensors into a dangerous situation, you know, to avoid escalation or risking human life.
02:27And drones just happen to be a really good way to do that, because they can fly up to, you know, the fourth story of a building.
02:33We built the first drone in the world that has a glass breaker, so it can actually shatter out a window, make entry inside of a structure, start looking around, find someone, and then enable a crisis negotiator to talk to them.
02:45Whereas like a terrestrial platform or anything else, it wouldn't have that capability or be able to, you know, fly upstairs easily or many other things.
02:52So drones are just the right way to carry around the sensors that we need.
02:56So tell me a little bit about, you know, yourself and growing up and what made you the best person to build these drones then for these teams and now teams across the United States?
03:08I mean, I've just had like a lifelong passion for science and engineering and aerospace, right?
03:14So like I'm building, I've been building drones since I was really young.
03:17I built a fusion reactor in my garage too, which freaked out my neighbors thoroughly, but I had some fun with it.
03:23So that did that deuterium, deuterium fusion and was a great way for me to learn more about high vacuum systems and high voltage electronics and gas regulation and like neutron detection, all of this sort of stuff.
03:35And I mean, I worked on supersonic rockets and I was always something, right?
03:41And I think that really equipped me with a lot of the early technical skills that I needed to take on some of the projects that were associated with building Brink.
03:49Did some cool internships too, like McLaren, Tesla and DJI, and those were also all very educational.
03:56So that set me up well to build what turned into this company.
03:59And this is all before you're, you know, barely starting college.
04:03Yeah, yeah.
04:04That's incredible.
04:05Well, I started, I started college when I was 14.
04:08Oh, what?
04:09Yeah.
04:09So tell me about that.
04:12Yeah, it was weird.
04:13Well, it was, it was definitely an interesting process for me.
04:17So I, I'm dyslexic.
04:18So when I was really young, I struggled to like learn how to read or spell or anything like that.
04:24And so, I mean, when I started my educational journey, like it wasn't easy.
04:30Like I really had to work very hard to like even operate at grade level.
04:34But I got very lucky with my parents and they noticed this about me when I was pretty young and enrolled me in like after school programs and whatever else.
04:43And that, that like really helped me ramp up.
04:46So that happened over the course of a couple of years.
04:48Then I started doing pretty well in school.
04:50So, uh, we decided for me to skip sixth grade.
04:55So I went from fifth to seventh in, in middle school, uh, did that, went to high school for about a year.
05:01And then I started taking college classes at UNLV.
05:05Um, but then I ended up transferring over to Northwestern.
05:08Wow.
05:08And I was, I was there for about six months before I dropped out with the Jill Fellowship.
05:13So that was sort of my, my full educational history.
05:16That's incredible.
05:17So you're like this mastermind here, actually.
05:19Well, I don't know about that.
05:21I mean, I struggled.
05:22I certainly struggled a lot, but like, I think it also taught me some level of resilience.
05:27Right.
05:28And like reinforced in my brain that just like working very hard at something can actually make a huge difference and like fix a problem that you care about.
05:37And that's something that I have kept with me.
05:39That's incredible.
05:40So 18 year old Blake goes to the Vegas Metro team.
05:45Yeah.
05:45What happens next?
05:46So, I mean, the, really the first interaction was at lunch, um, which went well, but they were, I mean, the SWAT team was trying to figure me out.
05:55Right.
05:55Like I was super young at the, at that point I had worked at some interesting places and taken on projects.
06:01So, I mean, I seemed somewhat legitimate, but they still weren't sure that like, this is going to turn into anything.
06:08So we had this conversation.
06:09I learned a lot about their jobs.
06:11I came up with an idea of what I wanted to build for them.
06:14Went back to my mom's house, engineered like the first version of what was ultimately the Lemur drone.
06:20And I was like, very proud of my creation.
06:22Like I worked super hard on this.
06:24I thought I totally nailed what they needed.
06:26Set up this big meeting with their full SWAT team, like the commander, but also all like their full team.
06:32Um, drove out to this like clandestine SWAT hangar that they have with like aircraft and armored vehicles and stuff.
06:40And I delivered this demonstration very proudly of what I made.
06:45And, um, I remember very vividly, there was a moment where one, I thought things were going well, clearly they disagreed with that.
06:54There was a moment when one of the SWAT operators mid demo walked up to my drone as it was flying around.
06:59He had a towel in his hand and he slapped the drone out of the sky in front of everyone.
07:04And he looked at me dead in the eye and he was like, this is going to happen within the first 45 seconds.
07:09Of your first SWAT call out.
07:11And if your drone can't flip itself over and continue a mission after that, this is going to be like completely worthless to us.
07:18And that just started this like 30 minute duration where everyone was telling me what was wrong with my thing and why it would never work.
07:26And they didn't encourage me to give up, but they made it clear, like a lot had to change, which at the time I didn't love.
07:35Um, but I kind of look back on it fondly because I think in their way, they were like really honestly trying to educate me, uh, on what had to be improved for any of this to be viable.
07:45So I took all that feedback, went back to my mom's house, totally re-engineered the drone, set up another demo, gave that demo.
07:53That time they liked it more.
07:56And what they said at the end of the interaction was, you know, we see that this has improved a lot and we're interested in testing this out on submissions.
08:05Uh, we're not ready to buy it, but like we would like to test it and you've been pretty good to work with.
08:11So if you want to come along with us on some of those missions and like pay attention to what works and what doesn't work and continue improving it.
08:18Like we'd love to invite you along on some SWAT call outs.
08:21So that seemed like a good thing to agree to.
08:24Um, and it, it ultimately started this like six month period where I would go on call with Vegas Metro SWAT.
08:31Um, they put me like on the communicator, so I would get the 3M notification when there was like a barricade somewhere in Vegas's Valley and then I would grab my latest prototype drones, like throw them in my mom's SUV and like drive out there and hand them to the team and then watch them use the, the aircraft.
08:47And at, you know, certainly the beginning of that was a learning experience, but like by the end we started changing the way that SWAT call outs would happen where like we would find the person hiding in the closet that SWAT didn't know was there.
09:00Or like our drone would be the thing that they use to initially establish communications with the suspect, which is always a huge deal because like, if you're able to do that, you reduce the risk associated with a call out dramatically.
09:11And at the end of that, they became our first customer.
09:13Wow.
09:14Amazing.
09:16It's one thing though, to be this incredible engineer, make all this technology.
09:21It's completely the other thing to run a business.
09:24Yeah, that's true.
09:25So how did you navigate that space?
09:29Because you're not just founder, you're also CEO, right?
09:31So how do you navigate being a business leader?
09:35I just failed a lot.
09:37I mean, it's like, that's the honest answer.
09:39I think in the beginning, I, I definitely had a lot to learn.
09:43I mean, I made mistakes with like early hires and go to market motion and like many fairly important things.
09:50But I think I also paid, I was paying attention to what worked and like what didn't work.
09:58And I, I got better.
09:59I mean, I got better at hiring and selecting talent and I got better at understanding what works to sell to local government buyers and everything just sort of progressively improved.
10:10And one thing I do think that's kind of cool about building a startup is you have to pass like certain skill checks before you're allowed to proceed in a lot of cases.
10:21So like if I was, if I was a really bad like product person or a really bad salesperson, like I probably would not have gotten through that first interaction with the SWAT team.
10:32And then if I was a really bad engineer, I wouldn't have gotten through the demos.
10:35It's like even, it took a few, but like eventually we got there, right?
10:38If I was a really bad trainer, the SWAT operators that I was working with would not have been successful with our technology.
10:45If I was a really bad manufacturing technician, like I wouldn't have been able to build the early drones because I, I mean, I hand built our first aircraft, right?
10:53And like everything continues like that.
10:55If I was bad at fundraising, I wouldn't be able to hire.
10:57If I was like very bad at higher hiring perpetually, like I wouldn't be able to unlock future rounds or hit certain revenue milestones.
11:04So, I mean, there is some element to building a startup that it's like a linear progression, right?
11:11Where like you, you have to succeed at the stuff that you've taken on to the extent necessary to move on to the, you know, the next stage.
11:18Absolutely.
11:19How long did it take to go from working out of your mom's house to then having an office?
11:26And, you know, now you have this headquarters in Seattle.
11:29Tell me about that story.
11:31Oh, yeah, that was like years.
11:33It was pretty painful a couple of years, too.
11:36I mean, there, I felt for a while, like Brink was just not succeeding.
11:41I mean, it felt, it felt for, for definitely a moment there that everything I was trying, like, wasn't working.
11:49But, you know, you keep going and you keep improving things.
11:53And I think momentum and traction builds on itself and it allows you to, you know, to grow and accomplish things.
12:01Yeah.
12:01And I remember when we last chatted, you told me that although you had a Thiel Fellowship, you had a really hard time fundraising.
12:08And, you know, I can see that, you know, an 18-year-old going to investors and telling them about this huge idea that it's kind of a life or death situation with public safety injuries.
12:20And so I know there's a fun story with how you actually ended up getting that first big check, if you want to share.
12:30Totally.
12:30Yes.
12:32Yeah.
12:33So the way this worked was I had failed to fundraise several times.
12:38And I was complaining to one of my friends from college about this.
12:43He told me, like, hey, I know this guy.
12:47He's a TikTok influencer manager and he's starting to get into startup investing.
12:53And if you want to meet him, like, I can introduce you and, like, maybe he'll invest in your company.
12:57And I'm like, I have no better options.
12:59So, yes, more than happy to meet him.
13:01So we go set up a Zoom call.
13:04I log on.
13:05He joins maybe, like, seven, eight minutes later, and he is shirtless in bed with another dude for my pitch meeting to, like, pitch him on my startup and investing in my thing.
13:19So, and I mean, kind of walking into it, knowing he's a TikTok influencer manager, like, my expectations weren't massively high.
13:25But, like, the moment that happened, it completely fell through the floor.
13:29But, again, like, I'm here.
13:30So I'm going to do my thing.
13:32So I go, I start my pitch.
13:35I get maybe two minutes in.
13:37He holds up his hand.
13:38He's like, hey, stop.
13:40Like, I'm not smart enough to know if I should invest in this.
13:43But I know some people.
13:45I'm going to invite them into the call.
13:47And then they'll tell me if I should invest in you or not.
13:50And then he, like, turns off his video.
13:53Okay, interesting.
13:54So a couple of minutes go by.
13:56Two new people, like, join the Zoom.
13:59He turns his video back on.
14:00He's like, okay, go.
14:01And I go and, like, at this point, not so enthusiastically finish my pitch for, like, the next 20 minutes and think I just wasted the last 40 minutes of my life.
14:10Then a couple hours go by and I get this call from an unknown number that I don't recognize.
14:19I answer it.
14:20The person on the other end says, hey, I'm one of the people that this TikTok influencer manager invited into your pitch call.
14:28I'm actually Sam Altman's ex-boyfriend.
14:31And I think what you're building is really cool.
14:34And if you're interested, I would love to introduce you to him.
14:37It's like, yes, I would definitely like that to happen.
14:41So we get connected up over email, set up a meeting with Sam, just, like, an initial Zoom call.
14:49It's 30 minutes, which I'm nervous about because my pitch is way too long at this point.
14:54And it's, like, 40, so I know I'm going to have to, like, get through it in order to, you know, have any chance here.
15:00So log on.
15:01Like, one minute goes by.
15:03Two minutes go by.
15:05Five minutes go by.
15:06Six minutes go by.
15:08He joins.
15:09Now I'm really freaking out because I know, like, 24 minutes is definitely not enough.
15:14But I go.
15:16I do my thing.
15:17I get about halfway through my normal pitch.
15:20Then he holds up his hand.
15:22He's like, hey, Blake, I'm really sorry.
15:24I have to go and jump on a call with Elon Musk right now.
15:28But I think what you're working on is really interesting.
15:31And I will send you an email.
15:33We'll go from there.
15:34I click and call.
15:35Get an email.
15:36A couple hours later, he asked, like, four questions.
15:39I answer the four questions.
15:40And then his reply was, OK, I'll take your seat around.
15:44Wow.
15:44That was our first investment.
15:45How much was it?
15:46Two million from him.
15:47Wow.
15:48Yeah.
15:49That's such a fun story.
15:51I know.
15:52Isn't that crazy?
15:53So I guess I take the call.
15:54It's like the lesson.
15:56Yeah.
15:56And it was it was a big deal for me.
15:58I mean, that's what enabled me to, like, move out of my parents' house, get our first office, get our first factory, like hire manufacturing technicians and salespeople.
16:07And then Alex Wang of Scale AI also participated in that seed round.
16:11He introduced me to the folks that ultimately led our series A, like Mike Volpe in particular at Index Ventures, which is a $25 million round that happened maybe six months after our seed, which, like, upleveled us even more.
16:24And then then we were really off to the races.
16:26What do you think other investors couldn't see in the company that Sam Altman and Alexander Wang saw pretty immediately?
16:35Yeah, that's a really interesting question.
16:39I think Sam Altman, to some extent, already had a vision for emergency response drones.
16:46I mean, he's like he's an incredibly smart person.
16:48I think he sort of sees the future in a lot of different domains.
16:51And I think he conceptualized a lot of what we were building before we first interacted.
16:58And I think he also likes McLaren Automotive and like Tesla DJI and he's into fusion.
17:05So we just had a lot of commonality, like shared interests and passions.
17:10So like the combination of that and also him already thinking a little bit about the, you know, the thesis for our company made it easier for him to invest.
17:19Is he still involved in the company or at least in the early days?
17:23Was he heavily involved?
17:24Yeah, yeah, he has been.
17:27I know he's busy.
17:27He's incredibly busy.
17:29But I've gotten to spend a lot of time with him over the course of the last couple of years.
17:33And yeah, I mean, I just have nothing.
17:35But yeah, most respect for the dude.
17:37Do you think there was, when you look back and you're like thinking, okay, why didn't the other investors invest?
17:44Do you think there could be something to do with the way you pitched at the time?
17:49The way, you know, because I'm trying to connect dots here.
17:53And it's like, yeah, you had 20 minutes with Sam Altman and you locked it down.
17:57Whereas you're here saying with your other investors, your pitch was 40 minutes long.
18:00So what were some of the lessons you learned from that very first, you know, raising journey?
18:06You know, my pitch was actually similar to like everyone that I talked to.
18:10But with Sam, I just got through less of it.
18:13Less of it.
18:13Wow.
18:13Yeah.
18:14So, I mean, there's probably a lesson in there, too, that like there are absolutely ways to optimize your pitch and to get better at that.
18:22And I think the first time I ever fundraised, which was our seed, like I was not very good.
18:28But at the same time, like the person on the other end has to be correct for you.
18:34Like they have to.
18:36That's very important.
18:36I think investors sort of decide if they're interested broadly in your idea or not before even taking your call.
18:45So if someone is like walking into the interaction thinking that your sector is fascinating and that you're the market leader and that you're intelligent and like capable, you know, your pitch could be worse.
19:00And like it could all still result in a better outcome versus interacting with someone that has like no idea that your industry even exists.
19:07And like that, that can be hard or even worse, like thinks they understand your industry, but have a lot of incorrect preconceived notions that you have to overcome.
19:16Like that's sort of the worst.
19:17So there's a spectrum of potential outcomes here.
19:21And in order to get a round done, I think it is advisable to spend as much effort as you can putting yourself in the room with the correct folks as opposed to like really having to convince people that your thing is worth caring about.
19:34Absolutely. This month you announced a $75 million round.
19:39Where does that bring your total funding?
19:41About $157 million.
19:43So a long way from that $2 million.
19:45Yes.
19:46What changed in those, you know, second, third rounds?
19:50I'm sure at that point you have a product show, a company to show, but maybe not the $75 million because that was just now, but the round you raised right after, you know, that first seed, what was different with that one?
20:07I think, I think a couple of core things were different.
20:11I wasn't, I wasn't a kid working out of his mom's house anymore.
20:14So that was beneficial.
20:15We had a team, we had much more revenue, we had a much more competent product.
20:22We had positive customer references.
20:24And also when we were raising the Series A, we had the credibility of Alex Wang and Sam Altman behind us.
20:31And like all of those things were unbelievably beneficial and powerful.
20:36And we raised it a good time in the market.
20:38So like all of, all of that helped.
20:40Now, obviously you've come a long way.
20:42Tell me about, you know, who you're working with, how many states you've tackled so far.
20:48Yep.
20:49We have customers in all 50 states.
20:50Amazing.
20:51How many are we talking?
20:52About 600, a little over 600.
20:54600.
20:55And I want to hear about the product.
20:57What are these customers, these first responders?
21:01Because I assume everybody is a first responder in this customer base.
21:05What are they getting?
21:06What are they using?
21:07Yep.
21:08So we have two core products right now.
21:10We have an interior tactical drone, which is where we started.
21:14And then we have a citywide 911 response drone mesh.
21:18So, and that's really the product that I started Brink to create.
21:22So it's, it's very exciting that it's out now.
21:24Kind of the way it works is we put a drone recharging station on top of police and fire station roofs.
21:30And like big grids around jurisdictions.
21:34And then we integrate that with computer-aided dispatch.
21:36So the second someone calls 911, we grab the GPS coordinate that's associated with that emergency.
21:42We find the nearest recharging pod to that 911 call.
21:45We automatically dispatch a drone, send it there at 60 miles an hour.
21:49And then when it arrives, it can deliver emergency medical payloads like Narcan, defibrillators, EpiPens, personal flotation devices.
21:58That one in particular I'm excited about because like drownings are actually a serious problem.
22:03And it's difficult for first responders to get out like into the ocean or into a pond within a couple of minutes of like a 911 call coming in about a drowning.
22:12So the idea of, you know, deploying a drone and getting there in 60 seconds, then delivering a flotation device that inflates the moment it hits the water is very compelling.
22:21And I think just like a clear social good.
22:23So we can deliver all those payloads, but we can also just provide first responders more information about the situation that they're about to walk into.
22:29So our drones have thermal imagers, they can see heat signatures, meaning they can tell firefighters how bad a fire is before they arrive.
22:37They can see through smoke and detect hotspots so they can direct hose placement to ensure that you're extinguishing things as efficiently as possible.
22:44In the context of a police response, they could tell, you know, police officers if a person is holding a gun or something else before they show up, all of the above.
22:54So what are some of the dangers of that? What are some of the risks you're taking when you're operating or when you're using a drone in a life or death situation?
23:06I mean, really, the drones are all about reducing risk for for everyone involved.
23:10It's about capturing more information. So first responders know what they're about to walk into.
23:15And so, you know, situations don't unfold where preventable escalation occurs.
23:21So, yeah, really, that's that's that's the goal of all of our technology.
23:26How do you test the product? Because when you're using them with these very high stakes, you know, individuals, how do you make sure it works?
23:37Yeah, that's a good question. We test everything extensively. So we'll test things on a subsystem level, you know, motors and propellers and printed circuit boards will expose all of those items to various elemental conditions.
23:52So high temperatures, low temperatures, you know, rain, everything that you would sort of expect.
23:58And then we test our, you know, our drones at a system level, too. So we'll expose them to super hostile environments and just get in absolutely as many flight hours as we can.
24:08But it is hard to engineer drones like environments vary a lot around the United States, around the world.
24:15We have to deal with electromagnetic interference, like there's tons of Wi-Fi in a building that can screw with our radios.
24:22And we've had to invest a lot of engineering into, you know, rectifying that. In some cases, you have a good GPS signal because you might be flying outside away from big buildings.
24:30But if you're flying indoors, you don't have GPS or if you're flying close to big buildings, you might also not have a very strong GPS signal, meaning that you need other technologies to teach the drone where it is in the world and how it's moving, which are also challenging to engineer because they rely on LIDAR sensors and cameras and like visual inertial odometry techniques and various other things.
24:49The environmental factors will change. As I described, pilot skill varies a little bit. So like obstacle avoidance and other similar features can matter. I can go on and on and on about this.
25:01But you just have to test everything absolutely as much as you can.
25:04Thinking about that very first demo you gave where the officer just kind of swatted the drone down.
25:10If that happens in the real world where the drone is being used in a situation, what's the protocol? What happens if the drone gets knocked down?
25:23We have a self-writing system now.
25:25OK, explain what that means.
25:27It's kind of cool. I think it's an elegant implementation of this.
25:30Basically, we drive. So it's our drones are quadcopters.
25:34So we have four rotors will drive two of the rotors in reverse to generate reverse thrust and allow us to flip ourselves over.
25:42And the reason why I think it's elegant is early on, we considered like a flipper arm or something like that in order to execute this maneuver.
25:48But that's more parts, more weight, more things to break, you know, more costs, all of that.
25:54So we were able to figure out how to do this without adding any extra components to the drone.
25:59OK. And then our exterior drones also have ballistic parachutes.
26:03So they have basically parachute canisters with small pyrotechnic charges.
26:08And then the parachute canisters have their own computers, batteries and IMUs.
26:13So if anything ever goes wrong on the drone, the parachute can actually make its own decision to pop.
26:18It inflates very rapidly because of that pyrotechnic charge.
26:21And then the whole drone just sort of glides down.
26:23Where does AI play into this?
26:27You know, our drones won't even take off without it, actually.
26:30It's like that deeply integrated.
26:32So we use AI and ML techniques in order to aid our drones in understanding like where they are and how they're moving.
26:39So that's kind of how we're processing inbound video feeds into the drone.
26:43But I mean, there are so many cool things that we've done and are planning to do.
26:47Yeah.
26:48Is there someone, you know, just on the back end making sure everything works when a drone is deployed or is it fully autonomous at this point?
26:59It's so it varies.
27:00It's a good question.
27:01It varies a little bit on the product.
27:03For our interior drones, normally they're piloted with a handheld controller, which our customers actually like because SWAT operators have a lot of information about what's going on in the context of a SWAT call out, right?
27:15Like they might know that a suspect isn't in this half of the house there.
27:20They could be concerned about a person like specifically here.
27:24And if that occurs, then they can use our drone to launch and go right there without wasting a bunch of time doing activities that might not be beneficial for the mission.
27:33Right. So being able to fuse multiple camera feeds, feeds from snipers if those are in place during a SWAT call out, etc.
27:42And then using that to aid in decision making about where to place the drone can that can be a strong strategy.
27:47I will say, though, for our citywide system, autonomy makes a lot more sense because we know where the emergencies are in a jurisdiction.
27:54We know where our drones are. We know where our recharging stations are.
27:57So navigating from one of those recharging stations to an emergency is a fully automated process.
28:03We have sophisticated path planning algorithms that will, number one, select the right drone to launch and actually respond to that 911 call.
28:12But they'll also de-conflict with manned air traffic.
28:15So we've integrated with ground based radar and also ADSB systems.
28:18So we know where all the manned aircraft are in a jurisdiction.
28:22If one is close by, the drone will reroute around it.
28:25We know where tall obstacles are in the jurisdictions where we're operating.
28:28So like cell towers and stuff.
28:30Our drones will avoid those.
28:32We set minimum and maximum flight altitudes.
28:35So our systems are aware of that.
28:37And then our drone will just sort of take all that into account and navigate to the emergency.
28:41And only when it arrives, does it hand over control to an operator?
28:44Yeah, I think, you know, as a normal person, as a daily citizen,
28:49thinking of AI and public safety just feels kind of contradictory sometimes.
28:55So how do you build trust not only with the agencies you're working with, but also the public who's receiving help from these drones?
29:07I think that's a great question.
29:09I mean, I would say, you know, the technology that we built, it's designed to respond to emergencies.
29:15Like when someone calls 9-1 and asks for help, like that's when our technology deploys.
29:21So like people are, you know, opting into this existing.
29:25And we've built some technology too on the back end that I think can help communities get comfortable with this sort of technology being implemented.
29:32The core piece of technology that we built along those lines is our public transparency portal.
29:37So basically we publish to anyone that's interested the number of times one of our drones have launched and responded to an emergency.
29:46The types of response, the types of emergencies, excuse me, that those drones are responding to, average response times.
29:53But then we get more granular and show actual flight paths.
29:56So if someone sees a drone flying over their house, they're like, why was that there?
30:00They can look it up in our software, put in their location where they saw the drone, put in what time they saw the drone,
30:06and then they can see the purpose of that flight.
30:08So if it was responding to a structure fire, that would be published.
30:12That's incredible. With AI, what do you think is going to happen in the next five to ten years in terms of public safety?
30:22Oh man, so much. I mean, one feature we're building now that I'm like really excited about is a video search box.
30:30So our drones are streaming back HD video and thermal imaging video all the time.
30:34But there are instances where first responders might be looking for something and it could be difficult to see within that like cameras field of view.
30:42So we're adding this feature where they can type in something like white bag or six foot tall male or like even a license plate number.
30:50And if that's seen anywhere in the video feed, it will send an alert and then draw a bounding box around that thing.
30:55So for various searching missions like that can be pretty beneficial.
31:00You think about like a search and rescue use case, like, you know, someone is wearing a red jacket.
31:04You can type in like like six foot tall dude with a red jacket.
31:08And if that's ever seen, it would send an alert.
31:11OK, very cool. You're working with a lot of agencies now.
31:14But when you were first starting out, I know you signed biggest as your first customer, but was there any challenge in convincing agencies to use your product?
31:27Yeah. You know, that's that's also a great question. Less than I expected.
31:30Oh, wow. OK.
31:31Yeah. I think when we deliver a demonstration of our technology, what SWOT operators are thinking about is the situation that they encountered three years ago,
31:42where they didn't know someone was hiding in a closet and that person shot one of their friends or something along those lines,
31:50or they were put in a position where they had used force on someone and they they really don't want to do that.
31:56Like that is not why they're in this job. They are in this job to keep people safe.
32:02So when they when they see our technology and they think back to that event, they realize that like maybe this could have helped.
32:09Maybe this could have added the information they needed to avoid that bad outcome.
32:13And then they generally want to adopt it.
32:15OK, very cool. Who's the competition when it comes to working with these agencies?
32:20Yeah, I would say in the interior segment, we don't really have much direct competition.
32:26OK. DJI has an interior drone, but it's missing a lot of core features that our drone has, like a two way audio system, a glass breaker, thermal imaging capabilities.
32:38Mesh networking, radios, like many things that matter a lot to first responders.
32:43So in that category, I think we have a very dominant position right now.
32:47As far as citywide 911 response drone networks, we do have more direct competition in Skydio,
32:54who currently is like the largest drone company in America.
32:57We're number two quadcopter company. But yeah.
33:00Well, DJI is based in China.
33:03Yes.
33:04There's a lot going on with the trade war with China.
33:07Indeed.
33:08You have been sanctioned twice.
33:10Yes, I have.
33:11Yes.
33:12And on the list is also Skydio.
33:14Right.
33:15How has that affected your business?
33:16Yeah.
33:17So I've been personally sanctioned, meaning I can't go to China.
33:21And Brink has been sanctioned twice now.
33:25It hasn't affected our business very much because our drones already had to be what's called NDA compliant,
33:32meaning that in order to sell to our customer base, we have not been allowed to buy processors, sensors, radios,
33:41anything like that from Chinese suppliers.
33:44So our supply chain is just decoupled from China and we don't sell to Chinese buyers.
33:49So between not working with Chinese companies to build our drones and not selling to anyone in China,
33:54it hasn't been a big deal.
33:56So why has China sanctioned you twice then?
33:59That is an excellent question.
34:01Really an excellent question.
34:02I mean, they claim it's because of military collaboration with Taiwan,
34:09which is something that we really have not done.
34:13But that I mean, that that is their published reason for sanctioning us.
34:18I think the reality is they view drones as a very critical military technology
34:24and they don't want the free world or the United States to have any capacity to build these systems.
34:30So they're like doing what they can in order to prevent the US drone industry from growing.
34:35How have tariffs affected you, if not the China tariffs, but the ones that, you know, Donald Trump has put forward,
34:44even though they're on a pause right now?
34:45Yeah. Yeah, that's an interesting question, too.
34:48So they've I mean, they've increased our bill of materials costs, right?
34:53Because we work with many US suppliers, but we also have an international supply chain.
34:57We work with companies in Japan and South Korea and the UK and like various other places.
35:02So our bomb cost has increased.
35:04However, the cost of competitive DJI drones has also gone up dramatically.
35:10So I actually think this is likely a small net positive for us.
35:15What about Skydio?
35:16Do you have any insight into how that competition will fare because of sanctions and tariffs?
35:23My impression is they're facing similar pressures on like either side.
35:27So they also have a global supply chain.
35:29Their bomb cost increased.
35:31But their biggest competitor is also DJI and those drones are still more expensive.
35:37So I think we're both we're both winners.
35:40Like the US drone industry is probably a modest winner.
35:43You're building something that could be used as a weapon and you're instead using it for public safety.
35:50Right.
35:51Or not necessarily as a weapon, but in those kinds of situations where it could be used for something a lot more.
36:00Way more way more.
36:02How do you balance that vision with, you know, having this powerful tech, but running a company that's dedicated to public safety?
36:12Yeah, I think it's a little bit like nuclear power.
36:16Right.
36:17And that there are amazing civil applications of nuclear power that can benefit humanity.
36:22And there are also extensive military applications for nuclear power that can like end the world.
36:28Drones are sort of similar.
36:31Like there are ways that this technology can massively improve quality of life and save a lot of people's lives.
36:38And I think that's like a beautiful, amazing future that we should make happen.
36:42But clearly, I mean, looking at what's going on in Ukraine and in other places in the world, like these are also powerful weapons of war.
36:50And I think our species is going to use this for both of those missions.
36:56Would you ever branch out of public safety?
36:59I mean, it's hard to say.
37:03I think I think if the U.S. got into some major hot war with China, it would be like I care about democracy existing.
37:12Right. So it would be difficult to not have conversations along those lines.
37:17However, right now we really do sell exclusively to public safety.
37:22It's a community I care a lot about.
37:24It's a mission that I passionately love.
37:27And unless something absolutely catastrophic happens from a geopolitical standpoint, I don't think we're going to change focus.
37:34Okay. Gotcha.
37:35With building such a startup also comes hiring the right people who are aligned with your vision.
37:41How has that worked out?
37:43It's gotten better over the years.
37:45That's for sure.
37:46I our team is our team is really excellent.
37:48I mean, we we moved to Seattle, Washington.
37:51We've recruited extensively from, you know, SpaceX Starlink and Amazon Prime Air.
37:57They're Amazon's like drone delivery program.
37:59Amazon Project Kuiper, like their Internet satellite division and like many other similar similar companies and similar teams.
38:07And yeah, I mean, we have we have a great team now, like a strong leadership layer, very strong individual contributors on the go to market side.
38:15We've recruited a lot from public safety.
38:18So many of our salespeople used to be police officers or firefighters or, you know, people in that world.
38:23Mm hmm. How would you describe yourself as a business leader?
38:26Yeah, that's a broad question.
38:29You know, I think my I mean, my general approach to leadership is I try to hire the absolute best people that I can give them context about the pressures that we're facing as an organization.
38:43So they have a good decision making framework to, you know, evaluate things with as they come up.
38:48And then I let them operate.
38:50Amazing.
38:51And if things go well, that's amazing.
38:53And like if things go less well, then, you know, in some cases we look for leadership.
38:57But things have been going very well recently.
38:59So I'm grateful for that.
39:01Looking back at everything you've built, how far you've come, what is one thing you would tell your 18 year old self?
39:10You know, what I think would have been like very encouraging is just that it like it does kind of work, you know, like you kind of get there like it's not going to be just failure forever.
39:23Like there like there will come a moment where you get, you know, you get a lot of what you want.
39:29Okay.
39:30Amazing.
39:31Well, thank you so much for joining us, Blake.
39:34This has been fun.
39:35I really appreciate it.