Food security often makes headlines during price hikes or crises—but the real work of ensuring a secure food system happens long before supermarket shelves run low. What will it take to secure Malaysia’s food future — and are we thinking about food security in the right way? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Sarena Che Omar, CEO of PNB Research Institute, a policy research think tank funded by Permodalan Nasional Berhad.
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00:00Hello and good evening. I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This.
00:14This is the show where we want you to consider and reconsider what you know of the news of the day.
00:19Food security often makes headlines during price hikes or crises.
00:23But the real work of ensuring a secure food system happens long before the supermarket shelves are empty.
00:32What will it take to secure Malaysia's food future?
00:36And are we thinking about food security in the right way?
00:40Well, that's the conversation we aim to have today on the show is Dr. Serena Cheoma,
00:45who is the CEO of PNB Research Institute,
00:49which is a policy research think tank funded by Pemodala Nasional Berhad.
00:54Dr. Serena, it's good of you to be here with me today.
00:57Thank you for being here.
00:58Pleasure.
00:59And welcome to the show.
01:00Sure.
01:01So let's talk a little bit about Malaysia's food security challenges.
01:04When you think about some of the biggest challenges we face,
01:08what are they?
01:09And we have a blueprint.
01:12We have the Malaysia's food security blueprint in the works.
01:15So how does the blueprint address the challenges that you consider to be most pressing?
01:21Okay, Melissa.
01:22So first of all, before we dive deeper into food security,
01:25I'd like to first ask us to get to the basics.
01:27What is food security?
01:29And I always like to tell people that food security is multidimensional.
01:34It is not just about farming rice.
01:37Rice is important.
01:39Farming is important.
01:40But there's also other parts to it.
01:42So there's availability, whether the food is available.
01:45Affordability, whether you can afford the food.
01:48Utilization, whether you know how to cook the food and eat the food.
01:52Stability, which means you have a stable supply of food.
01:55And then, for example, recently they've added agency,
01:58which means an individual's, what do you call that,
02:03known or informed decision in choosing what to eat,
02:08as well as sustainability.
02:09So these are all really important factors of food security.
02:14And to address food security, you cannot address one part.
02:18You've got to go through it everywhere.
02:19Okay, so let's go back to the challenges.
02:21So one of the biggest challenges in Malaysia is climate change.
02:24And there's two parts to climate change.
02:26The first part is what we call mitigation,
02:29which is like net zero, how do we reduce greenhouse gases.
02:33So that's one part.
02:34But what's really pressing and important for Malaysia's food security
02:38is the adaptation or resilience,
02:42which means our farmers in the northern states of Malaysia,
02:45are they resilient to a sudden flood?
02:48So for example, I think YB Mat Sabu announced in December 2024,
02:53the flood, it cost the country 160 million of rice damages.
02:58And that's because most of our rice is situated in the northern states.
03:03So one incident of climate change or weather disaster,
03:09there goes our risk to food security.
03:11So the answer to that is, of course,
03:13we need to diversify our location, that's number one,
03:16which means that you can't put all your eggs in one basket.
03:19So we need Mardi to, for example, come up with suitable soil
03:23so you can't just grow rice anywhere else, right?
03:26So a rice, a soil that's good for oil palm may not be good for rice.
03:30So what you got to do is we need Mardi or research institutes
03:34to go around Malaysia and find a good spot for rice.
03:37So I think Sabah and Sarawak, for example,
03:39is a good way to diversify our risk portfolio.
03:43The other thing that I think is really important to diversify our risk
03:47in terms of managing issues like this
03:50is not to just focus on certain imported food.
03:55For example, we import a lot of meat, right?
03:58And we import a lot of meat from India.
04:02So import per se, that's another topic that we can elaborate later.
04:06But what I want to say is that what about our buffaloes
04:08that grows really well in Malaysia?
04:10They can withstand the Malaysian weather.
04:13Another example that people don't realise,
04:15growing cabbages and carrots in Malaysia
04:18is very, what I would call them, sensitive to our weather.
04:23But throw a serai, throw a pandan leaf, throw an ulam,
04:26it will flourish.
04:28So Malaysia's food security,
04:30we really should promote local food like ubi kayu.
04:34That's another thing I wanted to talk about, ubi kayu.
04:36It's always associated with war.
04:39Yes, like our grandparents.
04:40Yes, it's like ration food, right?
04:42Food during tough times.
04:44Correct.
04:44But it's an excellent source of fibre and carbohydrate.
04:48And delicious.
04:48And delicious.
04:49Right.
04:49So why are we not promoting that?
04:53So these are some of the things.
04:54So another challenge besides climate change is,
04:57I have to admit, we do have an ageing population of farmers.
05:02So we have older farmers.
05:03Now that's not a bad thing.
05:05This is normal.
05:06This is the way the development of a country happens.
05:09What we need, Melissa, is not more farmers.
05:14We need, if let's say we have 100 old farmers,
05:17we need to transition to 50 younger but more productive agropreneurs
05:22or techpreneurs.
05:24And that's what we need for the country.
05:26So I'm not saying ageing farmer is a weird situation.
05:30It's a normal transition.
05:31But we, it's a challenge that we need to bring in.
05:34And how do we solve that?
05:36Now I always tell people, you know, have you heard of Kebun-Kebun Bangsa?
05:40Kebun-Kebun.
05:41Like a community.
05:42A community, right.
05:43Some people say Kebun-Kebun Bangsa is, that's a city thing.
05:46It doesn't address full nationwide food security.
05:49I tell them, they're allowing kids from schools to go there.
05:54What does that happen?
05:55It inspires kids, right?
05:56It creates a nurturing environment.
05:58And that's absolutely important for the country to have that transition
06:02from many old farmers to younger generation of farmers.
06:07So those are some of the challenges.
06:08You spark the love for...
06:10The nurturing sense.
06:11Yeah, for very early.
06:12Okay, so you've laid out the kind of the key,
06:15the most pressing challenges we have.
06:17But it, and I'm sure these are known challenges.
06:21We've had to deal with this for quite a while.
06:23But are there, is there a plan?
06:26Is there a plan to address these challenges?
06:29For instance, to think about food supply and the stability of it,
06:35the diversity of the location of where we were growing our crops
06:38and the transition to a younger population.
06:42Do we have a plan that tackles these issues?
06:45Okay, so I would say there is a blueprint coming up.
06:49It'll come out, inshaAllah, in a few months' time.
06:52I can't say for sure what's going to come up
06:55because it's still in the process.
06:56Is there a plan?
06:57I do believe so.
06:59You know, how effective it's going to be?
07:01I can't answer that.
07:03But I do think that a lot of the players, the policy makers,
07:06they are aware of what I'm saying.
07:08And I think, I'm hopeful that we will get things going in that direction.
07:14And another thing, when you talk about a plan,
07:16what we need, and I would like to suggest that to the blueprint,
07:19and I hope they're looking into that,
07:21is we need a food security agency or a food security research centre,
07:27some kind of an overlooking entity.
07:30Because the thing with food security, it's multidimensional, right?
07:33So you've got Ministry of Health looking into nutrition,
07:36you've got Ministry of Natural Resource and Environment,
07:38we've got Ministry of Agriculture.
07:41So we've got all these ministries,
07:42and it would be good to have some entity that sort of has an interest that overlooks everything.
07:48So there's cohesion, there's a kind of cohesive policy looking at everything.
07:53Okay, that's interesting.
07:54You mentioned the way we import foods.
07:59Sure.
07:59And I think there's a lot of kind of hand-wringing around Malaysia's rising import food bill, right?
08:06Talk to me a little bit about that.
08:08Are there strategies to reduce reliance on food imports?
08:14Do we need to beef up our local food production and ensure self-sufficiency?
08:21Sure, you got it.
08:22Okay.
08:22I love your question.
08:23And there's a reason why I love that question,
08:25because there's always this thinking,
08:27and I really hope the audience can learn a little bit or be inspired by this.
08:33Import per se is not bad, per se, right?
08:37So I'll give you an example.
08:39We import rice about 40%, right?
08:42But we grow the rest 60%, right?
08:45But like I said, is that a risk?
08:46It is a risk if that 60%, everything is grown in the northern state.
08:51Right?
08:51If you import 40%, but you diversify your import,
08:55you import a little bit from Vietnam, a little bit from Thailand,
08:57then you should be all right.
08:59So what areas are we concerned about?
09:02Meat, we import from a certain country, more than 80% from India.
09:07We might want to consider diversifying our import source.
09:10The other thing would be our feed product, you know, the feed that we use to feed chickens.
09:16Everything comes from Argentina and Brazil.
09:19That's it.
09:19So that is a risk.
09:21So it's not import per se, because I've actually studied our import behavior.
09:26Talking about Bennett's Law, I actually see an increase in avocados, salmon, chocolates and oyster.
09:33Is that a bad thing?
09:35It's not.
09:36Because in Bennett's Law, it is about as countries progress,
09:40diversity of consumption happens.
09:42We tend to reduce our consumption of starchy food.
09:45So Malaysia in the 1960s, we consume about 50% starch from rice.
09:50Today it's 30% and the trend is going down.
09:52I'm not saying we will stop eating rice.
09:53We love our rice.
09:55But what I'm trying to say is that we are beginning to diversify our portfolio.
09:58So Bennett's Law is, as a country progresses, we tend to consume less starchy food, more meat, more dairy, more vegetables,
10:09and sometimes, well, in most cases, more processed food.
10:12So that's the bad thing.
10:14So Bennett, what I'm trying to say is that we are diversifying our portfolio.
10:18So that's what I mean by import per se is not bad.
10:20It's how you import, it's how you eat, right?
10:24I can give you an example.
10:25Let's say everything is fully produced in Malaysia.
10:28Let's imagine that.
10:29We have all our food and it's all healthy ulam.
10:32We've got all the fish, poultry, everything.
10:35But if your child only wants Maggi Mee and Nuggets and you only feed your child Maggi Mee and Nuggets
10:40because it's a choice, that's still a food security issue.
10:44So that comes with a whole issue of awareness.
10:47It's like the agency we were talking about in the beginning.
10:49Yes, the agency, it's the choices that you make, it's the utilisation as well.
10:53Utilisation, yes.
10:54It's about how you know how to cook, right?
10:56So I know ulam, but if I don't know how to eat it, it may be growing everywhere in my house.
11:00You won't still eat it.
11:00I won't see it and I will still eat maybe something that's not as nutritious.
11:05Peredo chips, for example.
11:07So these are things where I always tell people, yes, import is not good if you import everything
11:12from one country and that's your main food consumption.
11:16But if it's oyster, if it's salmon and that contributed to our huge import bill as well,
11:22maybe that's all right.
11:23But if we're importing everything, for example, cabbage, onions, carrots, potatoes and meat,
11:29those are where we are importing a lot and we're importing from a certain country,
11:32then maybe that's not a good thing.
11:33Okay, so how do you gauge right now where we are in terms of our reliance on imported foods?
11:41Do we need to adjust anything?
11:44Where do we stand currently and where do you see how we might need to tweak things?
11:50Okay, so for rice, I think we are quite okay but if we can improve local production a little bit more,
11:55that would be good.
11:57For meat, I think we are over-reliant on import.
12:01For beef, for example, and I think we should consider local cows, local buffaloes.
12:08Buffaloes, you mentioned.
12:08I think that's really something to think about.
12:11Dairy is all right.
12:13Vegetables, we do rely a lot, especially cabbages and carrots.
12:17But most of our leafy greens comes from Cameron.
12:20Kangkong.
12:22At Kangkong, we are 100% self-sufficient.
12:24So it's sawi, so it's spinach.
12:26So we're not too bad in that sense.
12:28Fruits, actually, Melissa, we are pretty excellent.
12:30Most of our local tropical fruits, we are almost 100% self-sufficient.
12:35Of course, if you talk about strawberries and oranges, we're not.
12:39We have to import those.
12:40But does that mean we should grow it?
12:42No, right?
12:42We shouldn't.
12:43It's not the right temperature.
12:45It's not the right environment.
12:46Even if we do it, we might not be economical.
12:48It might cost a lot and it might cost the environment a lot.
12:51So those are things that we should be aware of.
12:54Okay, all right.
12:54So when you look at all the multidimensional nature of food security,
13:01and part of that, you also talked about nutrition, right?
13:03Are we eating the right foods, the most nutritious foods?
13:07When we think about that aspect of it,
13:10how do we incorporate that into a wider food security policy?
13:16Is that an afterthought when we think about
13:18Malaysia's broader health and nutrition goals?
13:21Can that be incorporated at the very core of food security?
13:26Absolutely, it is.
13:27And it should be.
13:29And that is why I do hope that the blueprint will look into this.
13:34And of course, you have the Ministry of Health looking into it.
13:37But I really hope that all the ministries,
13:39because it's Ministry of Agriculture that's working on the blueprint,
13:41but there's a cooperation going on.
13:43Now let's talk about that.
13:46Nutrition in Malaysia.
13:47Stunting and malnutrition and obesity in child is actually,
13:52there's not some good numbers.
13:54Would you like me to say out some numbers?
13:56Okay, we've got prevalence of stunting among children under 5.
14:01In 2022, it's 21,
14:03according to the National Health and Morvidity Survey.
14:06That's 1 in 5.
14:07Yes.
14:09Baseline, at 2015, it was 17%.
14:11So it has gone up.
14:13Whereas the WHO's target is that we should reduce it by 50%.
14:17And when we talk about prevalence of overweight among children of 5 years,
14:23it's at 5.6% in 2022,
14:26whereby the WHO target is at 3%.
14:29And here's another thing.
14:31So when we talk about food security and malnutrition and obesity and such forth,
14:35there's one thing including it in a nationwide blanket policy.
14:41But one thing that I always want to try to emphasise is that you also have localised,
14:47unique issues.
14:48So for example, Pahang is the highest in child stunting,
14:53whereas Melaka is the highest in the incidence of child overweight.
14:57So I would think then food security at the state level should then target
15:02based on these different scenarios that's happening.
15:06Wow, and the data,
15:07we also need to kind of look at the granular data to understand why.
15:10Yes, so it's not sort of blanket policy that looks into it.
15:14I think we should go down to the state level at least when we try to address food security,
15:19especially given that you also have different weather situation, right?
15:23In the northern states, you've got the,
15:25you've got the, what you call the flood happening,
15:28and you've got a different situation in the middle segment of the peninsula.
15:31Sabah and Sarawak has different challenges.
15:33So those things should be looked into.
15:36Okay, well, some of the challenges that we're facing in terms of food security
15:41can become more pressing in the near future.
15:44So when you see Malaysia's food security evolving in the next, say, five to ten years,
15:50where are you hoping it will go?
15:53So what are the key points of evolution that you're hoping we will focus on
15:59in the next five to ten years within, you know, when the blueprint is in place already?
16:04Okay, so you've got the blueprint coming in.
16:07So the blueprint will be there for the next five to ten years.
16:09And you've got the change in the way the country works
16:13or the population and the consumption, right?
16:15So what I'm trying to say is that it's not the blueprint.
16:18The blueprint has an impact, but there's also a change in the consumption pattern
16:23that the blueprint has to be aware of to adjust to it.
16:28So one thing that I'm talking about is, again, we need to move beyond just production,
16:33just looking at food security as carbohydrate supplying rice.
16:39So looking at it five to ten years.
16:40We do focus on that, right?
16:41We do, which is important.
16:42I've got a PhD in rice.
16:43I love my rice, but I'm beginning to realise that you've got the issue of,
16:47is your chicken sustainable?
16:48Is it full of hormones?
16:50Is your vegetables free from pesticides?
16:53So five to ten years' time, we will see, again, the Bennett's Law coming in.
16:57So we see a more, I assume, Malaysia will grow and prosper.
17:01So we have consumers that will be more aware of their food.
17:05That's the change in the consumption behaviour, right?
17:08So you will tend to have consumers who will be more aware, right?
17:11I think we have that now, right?
17:12People will be like, oh, I want my vegetables to be free of pesticides.
17:16And now people are willing to pay a premium for it.
17:19My hope for the country is that in five to ten years' time, it is the norm.
17:24You don't need to pay a premium in order to get a safe food for the people.
17:28Right, that should be it.
17:29And of course, animal cruelty, if we were to have a chicken poultry farm, some cases, if you're aware, they just throw the waste, the effluent into the river, it pollutes the river.
17:42Of course, if you want the farmers to comply, that means there's a premium price, right?
17:47So if you go to the shop, and I'll share this with the audience as well.
17:50If you go to the stores, any supermarkets, the 12 dozen cartons, if you look, some of them have a HACCP, Mesti and MyGap certification.
18:01It's a little bit more pricey, but I hope someday that will be the norm that it's not pricey anymore.
18:07Everyone can enjoy a certified food that's safe and sustainable for the people.
18:11I've always wondered about the price differential for a commodity like eggs, but it's because of the certification as well.
18:18Absolutely.
18:19But when it becomes the bulk, when there's more people buying, then of course it can get cheaper.
18:24Right.
18:24So I'm excited for this future that you've painted for us.
18:29I'm always optimistic.
18:31This is a food future I also wish for Malaysia.
18:36So how do we get there, Dr. Serena, when we think about the risks and the obstacles that could prevent us from making this future happen?
18:45What are you most concerned about?
18:46What should we be watching out for or mitigate at least some of the risks and obstacles?
18:51So, I mean, some risk, it's something that it's the people, it's the choice of the people, right?
18:57They need to make better choices.
18:58So go for MyGap, Good Agricultural Practices Malaysia.
19:01You have challenges in terms of the implementation of the blueprint.
19:04Let's go into that.
19:05How do we, we spend a lot, I think the ministry spend a lot of time and I've been involved in it, in looking at reviewing the report.
19:14And I can assure you, a lot has been done to come up with that report.
19:18It's a matter of, can we all work together to make it happen, right?
19:23So there are some challenges, for example, coordination between the ministries.
19:27Now, it's easy for us to say ministries need to coordinate.
19:30It's not an easy thing.
19:32It's really difficult if you think about it.
19:34There's ministries with their own objectives, their own targets, their own area.
19:40And they have to now work with other ministries, sharing their KPIs and all.
19:44It's not easy.
19:45But for the blueprint and for food security to be successful in Malaysia,
19:49I hope that there can be coordination among the ministries.
19:53That's one thing.
19:55Is that when you talked about having this kind of one coordinating food security research body?
20:01Yes, that's right.
20:02That would go a long way in helping kind of the ministries have more coordination
20:06and let's work together to achieve this food future that we so desire.
20:10So the risk, Melissa, I just wanted to explain.
20:13There's three, right?
20:14Number one, coordination.
20:15Number two is consumer awareness, which we talked about.
20:18Number three is about wage stagnation.
20:21So here's the thing.
20:24PMB Research Institute, we are looking into data on wages.
20:28And we, one of the things, and not just me, I've got colleagues and ex-colleagues look into it.
20:32And in Malaysia, we do have an issue of wages among the workforce that's not going up.
20:37And you put that against inflation, food inflation that's going up.
20:42So that's another challenge for us moving forward, is we need to address wage stagnation.
20:47Because for people to afford healthy food, we need to make sure their wages grow.
20:52So some people are very privileged where their employers increase their wages every year,
20:57automatically 3% to 4% to beat the inflation, but not everybody gets that.
21:01So that is another issue, I think, that we need to address.
21:05Well, that's a really great point.
21:06And that brings me, I guess, to my next question about how food security is not just the responsibility
21:12or the role of the government to ensure, right?
21:16Talk to me about how private sector can also play a role in ensuring the country's food security
21:21and also the public.
21:22I mean, we want to see this future for our food security,
21:29but how do we get there in terms of our power as consumers, the choices that we make?
21:34Sure.
21:35So there's two things here, right?
21:36There's the public and there's the private sector.
21:39Okay.
21:39So we've been talking about the government, the blueprint and all that.
21:42Yes, they can't just depend on the government alone.
21:43There's only so much they can do, right?
21:45So the public, which is what I told you about, consumer power is very strong.
21:50If nobody wants to buy a responsibly grown chicken egg,
21:57there's never going to be responsibly grown chicken egg, right?
22:00It will never become the norm.
22:01It will become the norm.
22:01So we need consumers to start, those who can make a choice right now,
22:07do go for good agricultural practices, sustainable practices.
22:11Consumers need to ask, hey, where was my vegetable sauce?
22:15Is it done responsibly?
22:17What about the prawns?
22:18Because, for example, there's cultivated prawns, right?
22:21And there's a huge issue with when you culture or when you grow prawns or fish in a farm,
22:29and you would just let go of the water waste, and that pollutes the rivers.
22:33That's why our rivers are so polluted.
22:35So prawn growers, fish growers, tilapia growers, do they?
22:39Do you ask when you do go to the shop, right?
22:41So we have to get educated.
22:42We need the public to do that.
22:44Now, I want to go to the private sector.
22:46And when I mean by private sector, I am going to bypass private sector within the food industry.
22:52They're doing stuff, right?
22:53We are talking about the private sector, such as the MNCs, even the GLCs,
23:00the government-linked companies, the, what you call that, the banks.
23:05I'm talking about corporates, right, corporates.
23:07What can they do?
23:09So we have a lot of very good social enterprises.
23:13We have a lot of startups.
23:14We have a lot of, what do you call it, NGOs.
23:17So I'll give you an example.
23:18Abundant Ventures in KL.
23:20We have the Hope Worldwide Malaysia in Sentol Raya.
23:24They are doing urban farming for, for troubled community, not troubled, but underprivileged communities.
23:32And they need help.
23:33So we can have the CIMB or Maybank or any company coming in and let's do a CSR with them.
23:38Or, for example, you have Dumo Wongi in Sabah,
23:41which helps housewives in Sabah to grow herbs that they sell those herbs.
23:46So we could have, for example, hotels buying these herbs, right?
23:50And we have the things like Langit, which is really another fantastic organization in Sarawak,
23:55where they work with rural folks where they grow their own high loom rice and they help to market them.
24:01And when they sell it at a premium price, they bring it back to the farmers.
24:05Isn't that fantastic?
24:06So private sector can help.
24:08So CSRs look into this and try to help.
24:12So that's something you can do.
24:13They need a boost.
24:14And private sector can come in.
24:16Can come in.
24:17For that boost.
24:17Another way the private sector can come in is that when you have, for example,
24:22I'm not picking on companies.
24:24I'm just giving an example, right?
24:25Examples of how they can be part of this.
24:26How they can be part of it.
24:27Let's say I have a company, a CSR, that helps to volunteer to do the kerbun kerbun community
24:33or something like that.
24:34What happens?
24:34I bring my family and my employees there.
24:37They start feeling nurturing, the nurturing environment.
24:40Oh, I'm growing something.
24:41I feel connected.
24:43I feel, oh, that's goats.
24:44I'm rearing the goats.
24:46This creates a community where they are more close to agriculture and food security.
24:54That means, for example, if they retire, if I'm an accountant and I'm done doing accounting,
24:59I want to go back to my kampung in Pematang Pauh and I want to grow rice.
25:03But because of my accounting background, I may be a more competitive and dynamic farmer
25:07and I may go back and be a very good farmer.
25:11So I think we have a lot of that in Kuala Lumpur now where a lot of corporate people
25:15who are starting to do all these things and they might do it for their retirement.
25:22Yeah, as a retirement plan.
25:23Or they may inspire their kids to do it.
25:26So I think there's a lot the private sector can do.
25:29Oh, I didn't even consider that.
25:30But what a great point to make.
25:33Serena, thank you so much for being on the show with me,
25:35sharing some of these really important considerations.
25:38I think you've helped us really think differently about food security.
25:42And some of these questions I think will stay with us
25:44and hopefully we'll get educated as consumers ourselves.
25:49Thank you so much.
25:49My pleasure.
25:50That's all we have for you on this episode of Consider This.
25:53I'm Melissa Idris signing off for the evening.
25:55Thank you so much for watching.
25:56Good night.