The Jeremy Kyle Show 28th January 2010
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00:00show the day a man who slept with his best friend's girlfriend finds out if
00:04she's had his baby i received the text saying that it might be that she was
00:09pregnant and i could be the father five minutes later i pulled you to the side and i showed you
00:16a pregnancy test but i never texted you did i terry received the text saying the same actually i
00:20showed up with a bunch of my mates and i made her take a pregnancy test leave her a bunch of your
00:24mates i didn't believe it pregnancy test party pretty much did you wrap it right what why not
00:34i never even set with him what you're going on about i never even set with you wait until ray comes out
00:38yeah we'll wait until ray comes out yeah we'll wait until ray comes out a man finds out if he's had a
00:42baby with someone he can't even remember sleeping with you drank that much you don't even remember
00:47having sex with her no yeah it's a total waste of space and believe me when it comes back is your
00:53son you won't be seeing him just watch me i'll go through every call in the land dna results the
01:01dna test results show that the biological father of kerry's baby is well well well the dna test results
01:09show that john well well well that's all on my show it's next
01:23so
01:31Good morning, guys.
01:50You all right?
01:52You all right?
01:57Thank you very much, indeed.
01:58Good morning and as ever a big, big welcome to the show.
02:01Now, first today is Terry.
02:02He's here for DNA on a 16-month-old child.
02:05Now, his story is this.
02:06He had a brief fling with the baby's mum,
02:08but claims that he wasn't the only one sleeping with her
02:11around the time of conception.
02:12In fact, she was in a relationship with someone else,
02:15and it was someone Terry knows very well.
02:18It was his own best friend, ladies and gentlemen.
02:21So we'll unravel it.
02:22We'll do the DNA.
02:23Terry's on the show, guys.
02:31Are you well?
02:32Nice.
02:33Look at you, suited and booted with a hat backwards
02:35and a pair of dark glasses.
02:37Welcome to the show.
02:39As ever, it's important that we get as much information as possible.
02:42Ex-lover is Karen.
02:43Yes.
02:44The DNA today is on her 16-month-old son.
02:48Yes.
02:48There is some confusion as to who the father is or might be.
02:52That's correct.
02:53Let's do the story from your point of view.
02:57Ray, good friend of yours for four years.
02:59Yes.
03:00And he's with Karen.
03:01Yes.
03:02What happens?
03:03They broke up.
03:05Why?
03:06I wasn't getting along.
03:08The point of the story is that when she split up with Ray or Ray split up with her,
03:11you jumped into bed with her.
03:13Or vice versa.
03:14We kind of both did.
03:15How long was your relationship with Karen?
03:17Was it just a fling?
03:18Was it a relationship?
03:19What was it?
03:20It was a fling.
03:21The point of the matter is that you had this fling,
03:23then they get back together.
03:25Which makes it hard.
03:27And then she announces out of the blue.
03:29She's pregnant.
03:29Hey, boys.
03:31I'm pregnant.
03:31Did she tell you straight away that it might not be yours
03:35because she was back with him,
03:36or did you always assume that this child was yours?
03:39I've been 50-50 all along
03:40because it was so close together.
03:43What does this mean?
03:44Do you want this child to be yours?
03:46If they're going to be a family, then no, I don't.
03:49I want it to be Ray's.
03:51But if it is mine,
03:51I'm going to do everything within my power to take care of that child.
03:54They went on to have a second child.
03:55This is about her eldest child.
03:57She thought it would calm him down.
03:58She thought it would calm him down.
04:01What's it done,
04:02or rather what's your relationship with Ray now like?
04:04Just recently, we've become friends again.
04:07Just recently.
04:07In your heart of hearts, is it literally 50-50?
04:10Honestly, yes.
04:12Now, there's another part of this story, isn't there?
04:14Because you say that he and she used to have,
04:17don't laugh, sex parties.
04:22What does that mean?
04:22I'm 44, but I'm obviously very, very narrow-minded.
04:25Sex parties.
04:26Swinger parties, whatever.
04:27Swinging parties.
04:28Yeah.
04:29And you've actually told my researchers
04:31that you believe that it's not just you and Ray
04:33who could potentially be the fun.
04:34But I really do believe it's just me and Ray.
04:37But you made an accusation
04:38that there was another bloke called Steve,
04:40a friend of yours and Ray's.
04:41That's because he's always told me
04:43that he thought it was his.
04:44Steve's put that edge on it,
04:46that he said it could be.
04:47Did he sleep with her as well?
04:49That's what he says.
04:51So he says he slept with her.
04:52You definitely have slept with her.
04:54Ray's slept with her.
04:54Is there anybody else?
04:55No.
04:55Well, I find it quite interesting about this story
04:58is that you and he are now mates
04:59and she's sort of on the outside.
05:01Is she getting blamed?
05:02When I first became mates with him again,
05:04she was pushed on the outside
05:05because I was hearing things that I didn't like.
05:07She was telling me she loved me
05:08and then he was saying,
05:10well, she's telling me she loves me too.
05:11And I kind of felt like,
05:13well, what's going on?
05:14You know?
05:15Why are you telling us both you love us?
05:16But she told me that she wasn't saying that.
05:18Is there a part of you that thinks that today
05:20when she gets the truth,
05:21having left both options open,
05:24that she might try and move towards
05:25whoever the father is in an emotional way?
05:28But she has a child with both of us then.
05:31But you've said that you'll step up to the mark.
05:33Yes, I will.
05:34I'll ask you the question again.
05:35In an ideal world,
05:35what would the best scenario for you be?
05:37What do you want to be the case today?
05:39Well, I'd like it for it to be raised.
05:41Okay.
05:41All right, take a breather.
05:42Next, we're going to meet the child's mother,
05:44the best friend,
05:45and they will all get those all-important DNA results.
05:47Don't go anywhere because I'm right back.
05:48My son needs a father.
05:50I don't think it matters.
05:51You've always told me you want to pray to be the father.
05:53It doesn't matter.
05:54I don't care what's easier on me or easier on my life.
05:56It's for my son, yeah?
05:57My son needs a father,
05:58and my son needs a father to be there.
06:00And I don't think even one of you
06:01have even bothered, to be honest with you.
06:05Are you torn between doing the right thing
06:07or standing by a loved one?
06:08Is a family member cheating,
06:10but you're torn between telling their partner
06:11and family loyalty?
06:13Is someone going down a wrong path
06:14and you're considering disowning them?
06:16Now, if you're 16 or over
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06:37It's forward slash Jeremy Kyle.
06:39Thank you very much, indeed.
06:47Welcome back.
06:48So, before the break,
06:48Terry was saying how he slept
06:49with his best friend's thin girlfriend
06:51and could possibly have fathered her child.
06:54This child is 16 months of age today.
06:56The most important thing
06:56is that we get the truth for this kid.
06:59The ex is Karen.
07:00Do you bear a grudge against her at all?
07:03No.
07:03No?
07:04She was doing what she thought she had to do.
07:05And I've always had, like,
07:08a little bit of remorse that I couldn't,
07:09if that's my child,
07:10I couldn't be in this life.
07:12But I always thought
07:12she was doing what was best for her.
07:14Okay.
07:14And if that was her feelings, then...
07:16Loads of people to get on.
07:17Let's get her out.
07:17This is your ex, Karen's on the show.
07:19Ladies and gentlemen, that way.
07:29Karen, welcome to the show.
07:30So, today is a massively important day for you.
07:32DNA on your 16-month-old child.
07:34Let's just get the facts as we know them
07:36to verify what Terry has said.
07:38You were with Ray.
07:40How long were you with Ray for?
07:42On and off.
07:44Maybe about three years altogether, on and off.
07:47There was a few incidents where he cheated on me
07:49and I kind of took him back,
07:51which is in the gap where I did sleep with Terry.
07:53He cheated on me.
07:54I worked with him for a few weeks
07:56and I had a feeling with Terry.
07:58You worked with Terry?
07:59Oh, not really, no.
08:01It was more like we were really, really close as friends
08:03and it kind of grew a little bit stronger.
08:05Why didn't you use contraception?
08:06Have I missed the point?
08:09Stupid.
08:09We just did it.
08:10Just stupid.
08:10It was just...
08:11Okay, so, in a gap with Ray,
08:14you and Terry get it on.
08:15That's just a casual thing.
08:17Then you and Ray, the love of your life,
08:18get it back on again.
08:20Did you have sex parties, by the way?
08:22No.
08:24Sex parties.
08:25Swinging parties.
08:26This was at Ray's house.
08:27No.
08:28No.
08:28You weren't there.
08:29No.
08:30This was at Ray's house.
08:31Well, she was going out with him.
08:32So you sleep with him.
08:32It's a casual thing.
08:33Maybe it's in response to what Ray's done
08:35and then you and Ray get back together
08:37and at that point,
08:38very soon after you get back together,
08:39you suddenly think,
08:40oh my God, I'm pregnant.
08:42Yeah, I found out I was pregnant.
08:43Did you panic?
08:44Yeah, pretty much.
08:45Did you tell both of them from day one
08:47that there was a chance
08:48that both of them were the father?
08:50Yes.
08:51Yeah, I did.
08:52Kind of did.
08:54Well, she didn't tell me in front of Ray.
08:57She told us separately
08:58and it was like her,
09:00she was, of course,
09:01she's going to tell Ray.
09:02Tell Ray that you've slept with Terry?
09:04Yeah, well, yeah.
09:05How did he respond to that?
09:07He wasn't happy.
09:08In fact, he stopped talking to both of us.
09:11He wasn't happy
09:11and then I sort of brought up,
09:12well, you cheated on me.
09:13We've both made a mistake.
09:14I'm now pregnant.
09:15And the thing is, Terry,
09:16you're playing a very good game today
09:17and I understand that.
09:18You've been very calm
09:18and considerate and it's about the child
09:20but you didn't believe her
09:20when she said she was pregnant, did you?
09:22No, I made her take a pregnancy.
09:22You went round to her house
09:23and you made her do a pregnancy test
09:24in front of you.
09:25Yeah, I did.
09:25Why?
09:26Just to make sure.
09:27Do you know what we say in England?
09:28Yeah, wrap it.
09:29Put something on the end of it.
09:30Wrap it, that's my new phrase.
09:31Wrap it, ladies and gentlemen.
09:35That's what it's going to be from now on.
09:36Wrap it.
09:37Why not?
09:38You know what?
09:39I was fresh into the country
09:40and I was just...
09:43They have condoms in the States.
09:45Not where I was, they don't,
09:46but anyways.
09:47You know what I'm saying?
09:48Yeah.
09:48So, this sort of act of revenge,
09:50suddenly you're pregnant.
09:51Both men know that they could be the parent.
09:54This is my question, my darling.
09:56Why has it taken you 16 months
09:58to get this sorted?
09:59Because that ain't fair to the kid.
10:00He says he hasn't been able to raise this
10:02because you've been back with Ray
10:03and it's now only because you're not with Ray
10:05that the right thing can be done for that child.
10:07That is completely wrong.
10:09In fact, I got back with Ray
10:10when I found out I was pregnant.
10:12He thought it...
10:12Well, he was...
10:13Oh, it's probably mine.
10:14It's probably mine, one of those.
10:17He started to live with me.
10:18He only wanted to know
10:19when I was six months pregnant.
10:21He then wanted to make a go of things.
10:23I was in my own place
10:24and then he cheated me again
10:25when I was seven months pregnant with him.
10:27With another one of my friends.
10:30Cheated me again when I was seven months pregnant.
10:32I then, when I found out,
10:34the next day by one of his other friends
10:36managed to tell me on the phone.
10:40There was rumours going about
10:41that this girl could have had STDs
10:42and everything else while I was pregnant.
10:45But like a mug, I took him back again.
10:47Only wanting a father for my child
10:49because that's how it was.
10:51But why did you take him back
10:52wanting a father for your child
10:53when there's a 50% chance that he's the father?
10:55That's what I'm saying.
10:56A bit weird though, the Ray's living with you
10:57and then when he gets it back on with her
10:59you drop him off at her house with all of his bags.
11:01It's a bit strange.
11:02I don't understand that.
11:03You took him back to live with her.
11:05You dropped him off in your car, didn't you?
11:06That's because that's what they both wanted.
11:08No, but that's very decent of you
11:09but at the same time
11:10there was as much chance
11:11that you were the father as there was that he is
11:13and she said,
11:14I wanted a father for my baby.
11:15Why didn't you pick Terry?
11:17Why didn't you pick Terry?
11:18Why'd you pick Ray?
11:19I wanted to be with Ray.
11:20It was just a little fling with Terry.
11:21I always loved Ray.
11:22He's the one that messed up.
11:23Right, now you have to refute this
11:25or accept it or whatever
11:26because with allegations on this show
11:27it has been said to us
11:29not just by Terry
11:31but other people as well
11:31and also by Steve in the audience
11:34that he also had sex with you
11:36and he, actually I'll tell you what we'll do.
11:39Shall we hear it from him?
11:40Yeah.
11:40Who is Steve by the way?
11:41Friend of yours?
11:43Yeah.
11:43Yeah, friend of yours?
11:44That's a lot of friends.
11:45A lot of sex.
11:47Steve!
11:47Hello.
11:48How are you?
11:49I'm alright, yeah.
11:49So what's the truth here?
11:51She's with Ray.
11:52She and Ray split up
11:53because he went and did it
11:54with a friend of hers
11:55so she went and did it with Terry.
11:56There's his casual.
11:56When did you have sex with her?
11:57We just had a little party.
11:59What?
11:59We just had a party.
12:00What, a sex party?
12:01Yeah, kind of, yeah.
12:03I'm so narrow-minded.
12:04What's a sex party?
12:05Tell me, what happens?
12:06Two girls and two guys.
12:08Right.
12:09So you all jumped in together?
12:11Yeah, kind of.
12:12True or false?
12:12That is false.
12:13Really?
12:13I've never heard anything like it.
12:16I've never heard anything.
12:17You're lying.
12:18Because I'm going to
12:19spit out my boyfriend
12:19for cheating on me.
12:20You're going to sit with him
12:21and a few of my friends
12:22because that's what I do.
12:23To be fair, though,
12:24as an argument,
12:24you haven't slept with him
12:25so who's to say
12:26you haven't slept with him as well?
12:28I'm only asking.
12:30I haven't slept with Steve.
12:31I have no idea.
12:32So why would he make that up?
12:33Why are you making that up?
12:34Is he making that up?
12:36Are you asking me?
12:37Yeah.
12:38I don't fly around
12:40everywhere she...
12:40You weren't there at the party.
12:41I don't wear a cape
12:42watching who...
12:43Did you wrap it?
12:44Wait.
12:44No.
12:45What?
12:46Why not?
12:47I've never even slept with him.
12:48What are you going on about?
12:49I've never even slept with you.
12:50Wait until Ray comes out of your cell.
12:51Yeah, we'll wait until Ray comes out.
12:53Yeah, we'll wait until Ray comes out.
12:54And Ray, are you still with Ray?
12:55No, I'm not.
12:56I slept with him when he cheated on me again
12:57when I just had my baby daughter.
12:59How many times did he cheat on you?
13:00About four or five times
13:01with my friend.
13:04You're saying you did sleep with her?
13:05So there's a chance
13:05that you're the father?
13:06He did sleep.
13:07No, because she was pregnant before, she said.
13:10Oh, so hold on a minute.
13:11That's the reason why you asked
13:12to do a swab last night.
13:13Is that correct?
13:13So let me get this absolutely right.
13:14I asked you to do a swab
13:15because there's not even one percent chance
13:17you could be my baby.
13:17Hold on a second.
13:18Let me get this absolutely right.
13:19You went and had sex,
13:20unprotected sex,
13:21with a pregnant woman.
13:21I didn't know that at the time.
13:23She said she was pregnant
13:24before, days before.
13:25I went with her.
13:26Right, Ray's on the show,
13:27ladies and gentlemen.
13:27Let's get Ray out.
13:28I'm confused.
13:28I don't know.
13:31I don't know.
13:31I don't know.
13:36Ray.
13:36Ray, welcome to the show.
13:40All sorts of people in ties today.
13:41Help me out.
13:42Basic, basic terms, right?
13:44You're with her.
13:45It's going all right?
13:45I was, yeah.
13:46And then it went wrong
13:47because you cheated.
13:48Yeah, I did cheat.
13:50And she gets with him,
13:51your mate.
13:51How'd you feel?
13:53I was devastated at first.
13:54I'll be honest.
13:55Yeah, I was.
13:56And that really affected
13:57your friendship, yeah?
13:57Yeah, it did affect
13:58our friendship.
13:59Okay.
14:00And then theirs was a casual thing.
14:02They didn't have protection,
14:03but there you go.
14:04Then you and she get back together
14:05and she finds out
14:07that she's pregnant.
14:07Does she tell you
14:08that it might be yours
14:09and it might be his?
14:10Well, I received the text
14:12saying that it might be,
14:14that she was pregnant
14:15and that I could be the father.
14:17Five minutes later...
14:17I never texted you,
14:18though, did I?
14:19I pulled you to the side
14:20and I showed you
14:21a pregnant contest.
14:22I never texted you, did I?
14:23Terry received the text
14:24saying the same thing.
14:25No, he didn't.
14:26No, he didn't.
14:26And if you say that on stage now,
14:27you're lying.
14:28I never texted you
14:29saying I was pregnant.
14:29I don't even know
14:29what you're talking about.
14:31I don't remember any of this.
14:32You're lying.
14:32You're sitting there
14:33and you're lying, Ray.
14:34I ain't got nothing to know about that.
14:35You're like,
14:35I pulled you up
14:36in Terry's bathroom
14:37and I showed you
14:37a pregnancy test.
14:38I showed you
14:39I was pregnant.
14:39I never texted you it.
14:40I could never do that.
14:41Actually, I showed up
14:42with a bunch of my mates
14:43and I made her
14:43take a pregnancy test
14:44because I didn't believe her.
14:45A bunch of your mates?
14:47I didn't believe her.
14:48It's a pregnancy test party.
14:49Pretty much, yeah.
14:50Everybody throws
14:51one of those things
14:52into a fruit bowl.
14:53Look, can we get this
14:54absolutely straight, right?
14:55Cool.
14:56You always knew
14:57that it might or might not
14:58be yours, yes or no?
15:00True.
15:00Then you get back with her.
15:01True.
15:02Then you two
15:03have another child.
15:04True.
15:05Then you split.
15:06True.
15:06Why has nothing
15:07been done about paternity
15:08for the last 16 months
15:10on the eldest child?
15:11Because, to be honest,
15:12we're all so much
15:13in love with her
15:14and she was constantly
15:15telling me
15:15that he was mine.
15:17I believed it.
15:17She just wanted to be.
15:18Oh, don't even know.
15:19He wanted to believe
15:19it was his child, Jeremy.
15:20I wanted the happy
15:21family life,
15:22if you know I'm mean.
15:23That's why you carried on cheating.
15:24That's why you weren't there for your...
15:25She gave him another child
15:26hoping it would calm him down.
15:28Oh, that's a great reason
15:29to procreate.
15:30She just wanted a family.
15:31She wanted a happy family.
15:32She says,
15:32if you cared about your family,
15:34why did you keep
15:34putting it around, unwrapped?
15:36I didn't keep
15:36putting it around.
15:37Yeah, I'll be honest,
15:38at first I did cheat.
15:39At first, yeah, I did cheat.
15:40I held my hands up high.
15:41Oh, just at first.
15:42So when I was seven months
15:42pregnant with Mason,
15:43you didn't cheat me
15:44when I went on holiday
15:45and I was two
15:45of my other friends.
15:46What's this about
15:47a DNA test
15:48that's been done, Terry?
15:49It was done
15:49through the internet
15:50and I swabbed the child
15:52which they said
15:53can't be done
15:54because I touched the swab.
15:56That's why you're here today?
15:57Yes.
15:57Let me ask you something.
15:59She says
16:00that she didn't sleep with Steve.
16:02He says
16:02you will verify
16:03that she did sleep with Steve.
16:04Yes, she did sleep with Steve.
16:05I never slept with Steve.
16:06How do you know?
16:07Because I was there
16:08in the same bed.
16:10Who's there in the same bed?
16:11I've never had anything like it.
16:12I sat up with you
16:13for cheating on me.
16:14We were all at...
16:15I'm going to go
16:15and jump in a bed
16:16with one of your friends.
16:16No, he says
16:17it was at a sex party.
16:18Oh, yeah, we had a sex party, didn't we?
16:19Karen, can I have my safe, please?
16:20I'm pregnant.
16:21Can I have my safe, please?
16:22Right, we was all at one night drinking.
16:24We was all at one night drinking
16:26having a good time
16:27and all that.
16:27I thought it was a sex party.
16:29Why were we out drinking?
16:29And then all of a sudden
16:30like me and Karen
16:31go into the bedroom
16:32as you do.
16:34You know what I mean?
16:35To go to bed?
16:36Yeah, to go to bed
16:37as they say.
16:38As you do.
16:38As you do.
16:38And then...
16:39As you do.
16:40As you do.
16:41As you do.
16:42No, most people go...
16:44Most people go to bed
16:45to go to sleep.
16:46Yeah, go on.
16:47And then all of a sudden
16:49like things escalated somehow
16:51and then like
16:52Steve joined the party
16:53I started sleeping with
16:55and because Karen
16:57I've never heard of it.
16:57I've never heard of it.
16:57I've never heard of it.
16:58I've never heard of it.
16:58I won't even...
16:59It must have been another girl
17:00you were in the bedroom
17:00because I don't remember
17:02sitting in this bed
17:03while you were...
17:03Karen, can I have my safe, please?
17:06Yeah?
17:07So you two went to bed
17:08everybody was drunk.
17:09Were you drunk?
17:09And then you started
17:14sleeping with somebody
17:14who's not here
17:15I started sleeping with this girl
17:16We can't name her
17:16she's not here
17:17and he jumped into bed
17:18and started having sex with you
17:19and you didn't know about that?
17:20No.
17:21No, she did laugh at it
17:22believe me.
17:22No.
17:23Then how come Steve got swabbed then?
17:26Huh?
17:26If I was already pregnant...
17:27Don't have a go at me
17:28I'm just trying to find out the facts.
17:29I'm just saying
17:30if I was already pregnant
17:32when I'd had sex with Steve
17:33how come he might be
17:34a potential father
17:35to my kid
17:36and he'd to be swabbed last night?
17:38Answer me that one thing.
17:39Later, they asked
17:40like, people told me.
17:41So because people tell you things
17:43you have to go and do it?
17:44Did you have sex with Steve?
17:45Never.
17:45Yes.
17:46Never.
17:46So you're saying
17:47she did have sex with Steve
17:48you're saying you've got no idea
17:49you don't think you did
17:50you say that this DNA
17:51of this 16 month old child
17:52is between these two men
17:53he's nothing to do with it?
17:55Yeah.
17:55Can we swab you?
17:56Yeah.
17:57Shall we swab the three of you?
17:58But I was already pregnant.
17:58Oh, we'll get the answer.
17:59Who's Rhys?
18:01My best friend for seven and a half years.
18:02Let's get Rhys on the show
18:03ladies and gentlemen.
18:06How are you Rhys?
18:12All right.
18:12Welcome to the show.
18:13What do you make of this story?
18:14Best friend of seven years
18:15with Karen.
18:16I find it pretty ridiculous
18:18about the sex parties
18:19and everything.
18:20Karen's sleeping with Steve
18:21I don't know why.
18:22Does anyone ever think that?
18:23I don't know how
18:24Ray can call himself a father
18:25to be honest.
18:26Why?
18:27Because he's a dad
18:27but he's not a father.
18:29What do you mean by that?
18:30Because it takes a father
18:31it takes a man
18:31a real man
18:32to be a dad
18:32Was he not there
18:33for these kids?
18:34Hardly.
18:34I don't think.
18:36No he hasn't.
18:37Since you split with her
18:37four months ago
18:38have you been a dad?
18:39Yeah I have been a father
18:40I'll provide
18:40I'll give as much money
18:41as I can
18:42I'll give as much as money
18:44Hold on a second
18:45sorry I'm going to defend you
18:46a second
18:46why should he give you
18:47any money for your eldest child
18:48when he doesn't as yet know
18:49whether he's the father
18:50why don't you take money off him?
18:51Because he's
18:52I'm being serious
18:53I am all
18:55I am all
18:56for people
18:57providing for their kids
18:58absolutely
18:59but until you know
19:00the definitive truth
19:01madam
19:01you should neither
19:02put a name on a birth certificate
19:03or ask for any money
19:04or allow a parent
19:05to spend any time
19:06until you have proof
19:07which is why
19:07the worst thing
19:08about this story
19:09is that it's taken
19:1016 damn months
19:11to get the truth
19:12for this kid
19:13because that ain't right
19:13for anybody's standards
19:14that's the problem here
19:15He's been saying
19:16since day one though
19:17that no matter what
19:18no matter who's the father
19:19I'm Mason's father
19:20I'll provide for him
19:21He will always
19:22send my son
19:23no matter what
19:24no matter what
19:25the results come out with
19:26Yeah but if he's not
19:27your son biologically
19:28and he's Terry's
19:29or Steve's
19:30or anybody else's
19:31the responsibility
19:32lies on the biological parent
19:34to step up to the mark
19:35as Terry said
19:36and pay
19:37and spend time
19:37emotionally
19:38physically
19:38financially
19:39whichever way
19:40what I'm saying is
19:40Fair enough
19:41but for the past 16 months
19:42I'm the one
19:43who's bonded with him
19:44She says you haven't
19:45brought him up
19:45She says you haven't
19:46I have
19:47I have
19:48You've been there
19:48on and off
19:49when it suits you
19:50whenever you come round
19:51to see both of the kids
19:53it's you
19:53it's you and my little girl
19:54that's all it is
19:55Are you two still
19:56sleeping together
19:56when he comes round
19:57No
19:57No
19:58No
19:59Are you two still
20:00sleeping together
20:01You're not sleeping
20:02with any of them
20:03are you
20:03No
20:03Fair enough
20:04Are you still sleeping
20:05with her
20:05No
20:05Who do you think
20:06the father is
20:07I don't know
20:09No
20:09That's quite central
20:10to the story
20:11my friend
20:11Take your pick
20:13A, B or C
20:13Who do you think
20:14the father is
20:14It's definitely not
20:15thing
20:16It's definitely not
20:16thing
20:17His name is Steve
20:18What
20:19It's definitely not
20:20thing
20:20Brilliant
20:21Which of these two
20:23do you think it is
20:23I don't know
20:2750-50
20:28The fact of the matter
20:31is
20:32whoever's right
20:32and whoever's wrong
20:33this has to stop
20:34it has to stop
20:34for the sake of the child
20:35there's been abusive
20:36text messages
20:36right
20:36tell me about those
20:37Well when I split up
20:41with Ro
20:41when I found out
20:41he was having
20:42a little fling
20:43when I had
20:43my little baby girl
20:44he was texting me
20:46because he thought
20:46I was going round
20:47to see Terry
20:47and he thought
20:47I was having
20:48sex with Terry
20:48again
20:49and I got abusive
20:50text messages
20:51off of him
20:51This has to stop
20:53for the sake of the kids
20:54yes or no
20:55Yes
20:56Oh absolutely
20:57When they broke up
20:58I did go round there
20:58a lot
20:59but it was to try
21:00and spend time
21:00with Karen
21:00and the child
21:01it wasn't like
21:02to go round there
21:03You two mates again
21:04Yeah we are friends again
21:06yeah
21:06Who do you think
21:07the father is
21:08Honestly
21:10in my heart
21:11I want it to be me
21:12in my heart
21:13that's what I want
21:14He says that
21:15it would be easier
21:15for her
21:17for all of you
21:18if it was
21:18for yours
21:19Yes
21:19but to be honest
21:20it is 50-50
21:21it is a 50-50
21:23What about you
21:24Terry
21:24heart of hearts
21:25who do you think
21:25the father is
21:26I'm still 50-50
21:27Karen
21:28you must have
21:28some idea love
21:29No I don't
21:30It was too close
21:30the dates were too close
21:31and he looks like
21:32both of us
21:33From day one
21:34I've always said
21:35he was raised
21:36but I've been
21:36having it drummed
21:37in my head
21:37every single day
21:38now for the past
21:3816 months
21:39well it ain't
21:40it ain't
21:40it ain't
21:40it ain't
21:41so I've just
21:41Terry you've been
21:42very calm today
21:43but you were also
21:44sending abusive
21:45text messages
21:45you texted Karen
21:46tell your son
21:47he's been
21:47artificially inseminated
21:49I don't remember
21:51I sent some
21:51abusive texts
21:52I don't remember
21:52saying that
21:53Why did you send
21:55abusive texts
21:55Because I got
21:57my feelings hurt
21:57because she was
21:58sending me texts
21:59saying I love you
22:00and then Ray said
22:00that he was getting
22:01the same texts
22:02but Karen has told me
22:02that that wasn't true
22:03So what do we have
22:04two men who took advantage
22:05or a girl who played
22:06two blokes off
22:06against each other
22:07what's the truth here
22:08That's not it
22:08I've never once
22:09since I split with you
22:10told you I loved you Ray
22:11have I
22:12have I
22:12when we first split up
22:13when we first split up
22:14so hold on a minute
22:15you tittle me again
22:15and all of a sudden
22:16I love you again
22:17get a grip
22:18I apologise for the messages
22:19Yeah you're lying
22:20Am I able to have
22:21my say now
22:22You're lying
22:22Do you know what I think
22:23I think the three of you
22:24should never sleep together again
22:26you should be civil
22:26absolutely
22:27but the most important thing
22:28is to discover the truth
22:29and do what's right
22:30by this kid
22:30can I get those DNA results
22:31please
22:32this is the reason
22:32we came here for this story
22:33at the end of the day
22:34right
22:3616 months is too long
22:37by anybody's standards
22:38you say you had sex with her
22:39yeah
22:40you say you didn't have sex with him
22:43why would you make that up
22:46I don't
22:47I really don't know
22:48to make me look
22:50to make her look like a s*** on stage
22:52yeah
22:52were you there
22:53yeah he was there
22:54yeah I was there
22:54I was at all the parties
22:55but there weren't sex parties
22:56they weren't sex parties
22:57were you upstairs in the bed
22:58no
22:59right
22:59the DNA test results show
23:03that the biological father
23:05of Kerry's baby is
23:06well well well
23:09it's not you
23:13it's Ray
23:21thank you
23:33you off now
23:34well yes
23:35sit back down
23:35this is my show
23:36I hope that they can just sort it out
23:38we're not in the States now
23:39sit down
23:39I haven't finished
23:39right
23:40everybody has said
23:47from the beginning of this story
23:48that that would be the neatest conclusion
23:50I'm not going to get into it
23:51I don't think it's
23:52I don't think it's what's easier
23:53for me or my life
23:54why
23:54my son needs a father
23:56I don't think it matters
23:57you've always told me
23:57you want to be the father
23:58it doesn't matter
23:59I don't care what's easier on me
24:01or easier on my life
24:02it's for my son
24:02my son needs a father
24:04my son needs a father
24:05to be there
24:05and I don't think
24:06either one of you
24:07have even bothered
24:08to be honest with you
24:09I have a joke
24:09you only bother
24:10when it suits you Ray
24:11every single day
24:12you look at Mason
24:13I see the look
24:14that you give him
24:15like it's nothing
24:16hold on a second darling
24:17with the greatest of respect
24:18I am not sticking up
24:19but all that
24:20is in the past
24:21because now
24:21we have definitive proof
24:23what matters
24:23is that he
24:24and they have a relationship
24:25yeah
24:25will you let us
24:28help you achieve that
24:29promise
24:30you're adults
24:32you've got two kids
24:33you've got to start acting
24:34like parents
24:35that's it
24:35you've got to put aside
24:36whoever did what
24:37whoever went where
24:38that's irrelevant now
24:39it's about the children
24:41yes
24:42yeah
24:43we're going to ask you two
24:44to go that way
24:45and you two to go that way
24:45and backstage
24:46we're going to sit in aftercare
24:47we're going to sort this out
24:48you're going to step up to the mark
24:49oh absolutely
24:49because let me tell you
24:50if you don't my friends
24:51you'll have your children
24:51to answer to one day
24:52yeah
24:53Ray and Terry that way
24:55you two go that way
24:55give them a round of applause
24:56thank you very much indeed
24:57good luck to them
25:05aftercare beckons
25:06the next to man
25:06who can't even remember
25:07a one night stand
25:08is here on this stage
25:10demanding a DNA
25:11don't go anywhere
25:11because I'm right back
25:12my grandson is 10 weeks old
25:14and for him
25:15to call him an it
25:17a what
25:17a thing
25:17an it
25:18is that what you do
25:19yes he does
25:19not quite right
25:21yes you do
25:22no because at first
25:23I didn't know his name
25:24I don't care
25:25you knew his name
25:26today
25:26well
25:26family member cheating
25:31but you're torn between
25:32telling their partner
25:33and family loyalty
25:34is someone going down
25:35a wrong path
25:36and you're considering
25:37disowning them
25:37now if you're 16 or over
25:38and you want to be
25:39considered for this show
25:40you can text the word
25:40talk with your name today
25:41to 63334
25:43text costs 25 pence
25:44plus one standard
25:45network rate message
25:46you can call the team
25:47it's 09011
25:48123456
25:50calls costs 25 pence
25:51from a BT landline
25:51now calls from other
25:52networks may be higher
25:53calls from mobiles
25:54will be considerably more
25:55but don't forget to go to the website
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25:57the address
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25:59it's forward slash
26:00Jeremy Kyle
26:00thank you very much indeed
26:09welcome back
26:09next this morning is John
26:10who is here today
26:11to find out
26:12if he's a father
26:13to a 10 week old baby
26:14now John has serious doubts
26:16as check this
26:17he can't even remember
26:18sleeping with the baby's mother
26:20let's unravel this one
26:22John's on the show guys
26:23how are you
26:27nice to see you
26:29okay
26:29yeah
26:29I don't react too well to that
26:32I don't even remember
26:34sleeping with the baby's mother
26:36this would be 16 year old
26:38crystal my friend
26:39yeah what happened is
26:41I went out one night
26:42with my mate
26:42having a drink
26:44and I've met up with
26:45an old friend
26:46and obviously
26:47she was with crystal
26:48which I didn't know
26:49at the time
26:50and I've carried on drinking
26:51and then
26:52I woke up the next day
26:53not knowing anything
26:54you drank that much
26:56you don't even remember
26:57having sex with her
26:58no
26:58but apparently you left
27:01the house with a condom
27:02in your pocket
27:02I take them out
27:03every weekend
27:03so if anything did happen
27:05nothing would come back up
27:07on me in the years
27:07and interestingly
27:08interestingly you couldn't
27:10find the condom
27:10in the morning
27:11no
27:12that's the thing
27:15I didn't know
27:16what I'd done with it
27:16I could have lost it
27:17or anything
27:18could have lost it
27:18but actually if you'd used it
27:19then you wouldn't be the father
27:20yeah but I don't know
27:22tell me what's happened
27:23basically you had this
27:25one night stand
27:25nothing happens
27:27and then out of the blue
27:29you discover here
27:30what happens
27:30Michelle is crystal's mother
27:32what happened
27:33how did you find out
27:34about this child
27:35basically one of my friends
27:36texts me saying
27:37this is nine months later
27:38after it's been born
27:39that you've got a child
27:40and I'm like
27:41well I don't know how
27:42because I don't remember
27:44anything from
27:45whenever it's happened
27:46what date it was
27:47or anything
27:47and she's just
27:49turned around saying
27:50can you meet me
27:50so I've gone to meet
27:52my old friend
27:52and she said
27:53right we're going to meet
27:54Crystal
27:55I went why
27:56she went that's who
27:56you've got the baby to
27:57and I went
27:58fair dues
27:58I'll come with you
27:59and I went with her
28:01to meet her
28:01and that
28:02and just didn't believe
28:04her or anything
28:04let's talk about
28:05Crystal
28:05who's here today
28:06with her mum Michelle
28:07and her ten week old baby
28:08what do you make of Crystal
28:09erm
28:11gobby
28:11all she's done
28:15is because I've got
28:15a new partner
28:16you've got a new partner
28:17Claire
28:17how long have you been
28:18with Claire
28:18er seven months
28:19apparently you're trying
28:20to have a baby
28:21yeah we've been trying
28:22for the last
28:22why
28:22six and a half months
28:23to start a proper family
28:24we're engaged
28:25might just be today
28:26you find out you've
28:27already got a kid
28:27possibilities are there
28:30but er we've been
28:31planning it now
28:32for quite a long time
28:33and because we're
28:34getting married
28:34and that we've got
28:34to have a proper family
28:35Crystal I know
28:36has come into this
28:37whole equation
28:38and has annoyed you
28:40because you feel
28:41is making these
28:42accusations
28:43without foundation
28:44what do you make
28:45of her
28:45not a nice person
28:48really
28:48she should have
28:49asked me
28:49for a DNA test
28:51to prove
28:52before she's even
28:53told me
28:54that I could
28:55be their dad
28:55you told my researchers
28:56this is a girl
28:57with quite a reputation
28:58er yeah
28:59how do you know that
29:01you just told me
29:01you didn't know
29:01anything about her
29:02because I've been
29:03told by friends
29:04and stuff like that
29:05that have known her
29:05that she's not
29:07a nice person
29:08to get involved with
29:09so what you're saying
29:10is there I was
29:11I admit
29:11I went out drunk
29:12I did take a condom
29:13with me
29:14I don't know
29:14what happened
29:15I cannot remember
29:15sleeping with Crystal
29:16if I did
29:17yeah
29:18I certainly heard
29:19nothing for nine months
29:20then out the blue
29:21I've got my relationship
29:22with Claire
29:23everything's fine
29:23we're planning a family
29:24we're planning getting married
29:25and out the blue
29:26this girl and her mother
29:27start making these accusations
29:29I've heard that she sleeps around
29:30and I'm not happy
29:32it's affecting me
29:33I need to know the truth
29:33yeah
29:34what it is as well
29:35she keeps harassing me
29:38asking me to pay for stuff
29:40and that
29:40when I don't know
29:41even if he's my kid or not
29:42no that's fair enough
29:43and at least we're doing it now
29:44with a child that's 10 weeks old
29:45I've turned around to her
29:46and said
29:46I'm not being funny
29:47but I can't be a dad
29:48if I don't know if he's mine
29:50then I can't give money
29:50if he's not mine
29:51what about Michelle
29:52now Michelle is Crystal's dad
29:53er Crystal's mum
29:55she's here today
29:56you two haven't got off
29:58on the right footing
29:58have you
29:59er no
30:00she's turned around
30:01and said
30:01listen you're a dad
30:02and that
30:03and I've turned around
30:03and I've said the same
30:05to her as what I said
30:05to Crystal
30:06I don't know if I'm the dad
30:08so I'm not being a dad
30:09until I find out
30:10and then all of a sudden
30:12she's had a go at my partner
30:13because my partner's
30:15texted it as well
30:16but let's be perfectly honest
30:17that all sounds very civil
30:18the text messages
30:18and the emails
30:19that have gone flying around
30:20the place
30:20haven't been that civil
30:21have they?
30:22no
30:23she's texted me
30:24on Facebook
30:25saying that she's
30:26going to kill my partner
30:27and get another member
30:31of Crystal's family
30:32to kill me
30:33I've got some of those messages
30:34here Will
30:34if I could just have a look
30:35they seem to be
30:36absolutely fraught
30:37with expletives
30:38which I've got to remove
30:39obviously
30:40so I'll do my best
30:41this is from Michelle
30:43listen here
30:45you know this baby is yours
30:47and if you ever think
30:48you're going to see him now
30:49you're mistaken
30:50because I will stop that
30:50I'm his nana
30:51and I've provided everything
30:52for him
30:52and tell your
30:54of a girlfriend
30:56if she thinks
30:57she's going to touch her
30:58she's mistaken
30:59I'll rip her head off
31:00you're so childish
31:03having all these kids
31:04and not paying for them
31:05what does she mean by that
31:06all these kids?
31:07basically
31:07when I was younger
31:09I had a couple
31:10of boys
31:11twins
31:12but
31:13that was all planned
31:16and everything like that
31:17all planned?
31:18you're 19
31:19you've got twins
31:20you don't see
31:21a potential child
31:22with a 16 year old
31:23whose mother is naturally
31:24angry
31:24although they don't
31:25condone this
31:26and you're already
31:27planning another
31:27we could have four
31:29by the end of the year
31:30it's not funny
31:30do you work?
31:31yeah
31:32do you?
31:33how are you going to
31:33afford four kids?
31:34well
31:34why don't you just
31:36put something on the end of it?
31:37for start
31:38I believe
31:40protection
31:41but if I'm in a stable
31:43relationship
31:44I won't
31:45you know what I'm saying
31:46Michelle
31:47you're just so childish
31:48you little
31:48I'm not saying that
31:49having all these kids
31:50not paying for them
31:51you need
31:51you need
31:53taking to a faraway place
31:54and shooting
31:55and tell your
31:56if she touches my daughter
31:58I will kill her
31:59do you understand?
32:00and then you went
32:01yeah because
32:02she kept calling
32:03her fiance
32:03and everything like that
32:05and this is the mother
32:06of the girl
32:08that you might
32:08or might not have
32:09had sex with
32:09who's saying
32:10that you're the father
32:11of her child
32:11this isn't going very well
32:12is it?
32:12no but she'd already
32:13turned round before that
32:14and said that
32:15I'm not having any access
32:16no matter what
32:17shall we get her out?
32:18you met her before?
32:19no
32:19this is Michelle on the show
32:20ladies and gentlemen
32:21you are a total waste of space
32:31and believe me
32:32when it comes back
32:33he's your son
32:34you won't be seeing him
32:35trust me
32:36I'll go through
32:37every court in the land
32:39make sure when you go to court
32:41welcome to the show
32:41you don't send any of these messages
32:43which actually show you
32:44threatening to kill people
32:46so if you want to act like an adult
32:48stop making threats like that
32:49alright?
32:51have you seen what he's been saying
32:54about my grandson?
32:56there are two issues here
32:57one is paternity
32:58the other is a 35 year old grandmother
33:00saying I'll kill your girlfriend
33:0234
33:0332 I don't care
33:05you don't threaten people
33:07do you?
33:08I don't care
33:10he doesn't diss my daughter
33:11and my grandson
33:12I get that
33:14but don't make threats
33:15my grandson is 10 weeks old
33:16and for him
33:17to call him a nip
33:19a what?
33:19I think a nip
33:20is that what you do?
33:21yes he does
33:22not quite right
33:23yes you do
33:25no because at first
33:25I didn't know his name
33:26I don't care
33:27you knew his name
33:28from day one
33:29from two weeks old
33:30well hold on
33:31if I was the dad
33:32you would have got in contact
33:33with me nine months
33:34before he's born
33:35and told me
33:35you were told back in June
33:37no I wasn't
33:38yes you were
33:38because I got with my partner in June
33:40you were told
33:41back in June
33:42by a text message
33:43let's hear it from your point of view Michelle
33:44because I do get
33:45I'm just saying
33:45the thing about the killing thing
33:46you've got to understand
33:47I understand also
33:48that as a mother
33:48you are doing
33:49what's right by your daughter
33:51he says he doesn't even remember that
33:53well
33:54he wouldn't would have
33:55he's already got four kids
33:57that he don't look after
33:58and Lewis is his fifth
33:59no Lewis is my fourth
34:00don't you lie
34:01Crystal has got the text messages
34:03on her phone
34:04him turning around
34:05and saying
34:06Crystal man and your son
34:08makes that
34:09my fifth baby
34:11no
34:11you are a liar
34:13you are a born liar
34:15I'm a born liar
34:16alright then
34:17much as I've got a guy on stage
34:19who might or might or have
34:20four stroke five children
34:21who might or might not be irresponsible
34:23and might or might not be lying
34:24about the fact
34:25he cannot even remember it
34:26can you explain to me something right
34:28because you seem to be a caring mother
34:29yeah
34:30what on earth is your daughter doing
34:32having unprotected sex
34:33with somebody who apparently
34:34was so blind drunk
34:35he didn't know the time of day
34:36why isn't she at home
34:37she was supposed to have been
34:39staying out at her mates
34:40so this was a shock to you
34:43yeah
34:43I was told she was
34:44staying out at her mates
34:45so when you found out
34:46but at the end of the day
34:47he was 19
34:48yeah
34:48no
34:4918
34:49I take that point
34:50you say
34:51it's been hard for her
34:53she's done well
34:54yeah
34:54she has
34:55she's done fantastic
34:57and you've been a great support
34:59yeah
34:59I've had no choice
35:00but to be as a short
35:01get that
35:02what do you want
35:02what do you want from today
35:03the results to come back
35:06that he is the dad
35:07and that he ain't getting
35:08anywhere near Lewis
35:09why are you saying that
35:10not a chance
35:11that you'd expect him to pay
35:12not after everything
35:12that he's said about Lewis
35:13you expect him to pay
35:14no
35:15no
35:16we've not had nothing
35:17off him in 10 weeks
35:18why would we want
35:19anything off him now
35:19how do you respond to that
35:20they want to prove
35:21that you're the dad
35:21and they want you
35:22to have nothing to do
35:22with the child
35:23they say
35:23you're not interested
35:24and you've called it
35:25is that true
35:25well no it's not true
35:27fully Gerry
35:27yes it is
35:28basically
35:29I've turned around
35:30and said
35:30that
35:31I didn't know his name
35:32liar
35:34because I hadn't got told
35:35what if it proves
35:36that you are
35:36do you want to be involved
35:37in this child's life
35:38or you implied earlier
35:39that it's difficult
35:40with your girlfriend
35:40would it be easier
35:41if you just had nothing
35:42to do with him
35:42well
35:43basically what I'd like
35:45to happen is
35:46wait till he's old enough
35:48to know who his real dad is
35:49and then
35:50have nothing to do with him
35:52do you use this as a theory
35:53for all four strokes five
35:54why shouldn't you get off
35:56your back
35:56all my other kids know me
35:57if it proves
35:58that you're the father
35:59why shouldn't you graft
36:01like every other single parent
36:02does
36:03and tell your girlfriend
36:04on a Saturday
36:04or a Sunday
36:05that you've got to go
36:05and do the right thing
36:06and go and play with your son
36:07why can't you do that
36:08because I've seen that
36:10right at the end of the day
36:12because do you do that
36:13with your other kids
36:14well I can't
36:15when they live
36:15far away from me
36:16get off your backside
36:17and go and travel
36:18and visit them then
36:19come on
36:21what with two days a week
36:22at work
36:22no no
36:23what did you say
36:24don't even go there
36:24wait one second
36:25what did you just say to me
36:26with two days a week
36:27at work
36:27oh bless your heart
36:29if you split up with this one
36:30and she has your kid
36:31will you do the same
36:31that you've maybe done
36:32to Crystal or others
36:33yeah
36:33I don't know if it's yours
36:34but I've got to put that
36:35to you
36:35the thing is
36:36if we'd known
36:37if I'd known before
36:38I got with Claire
36:39then obviously
36:39she'd understand more
36:40about where I'm coming from
36:41so she does put pressure
36:42on you then
36:43no she doesn't
36:43that's what you've just implied
36:44no I'm saying
36:45that she doesn't understand
36:46more and she'd be able
36:47to cope with it more
36:47in a text message
36:49that the reason
36:50why he has not been
36:51to see Lewis
36:51is because his girlfriend
36:53will not allow it to happen
36:54really
36:54so your girlfriend's behind
36:55did you send that in a text
36:57no
36:57because at the end of the day
36:59I'm with my fiance
37:00seven days a week
37:01unless I'm working
37:02which is on a Saturday
37:03and Sunday usually
37:04so you only work
37:06two days a week
37:06that's what I said anyway
37:07two days a week
37:08don't get smart son
37:09it won't work
37:10why don't you spend
37:10the remaining five days a week
37:11traipsing this country
37:12to go and see your kids
37:13and be the dad
37:14you purport you want to be
37:15explain that to me
37:16because I'm trying to find
37:16another job
37:17that'll pay more money
37:18right let's get her out
37:19Crystal is 16
37:20she's got a ten week old son
37:21she says
37:22I will prove today
37:23that he is the dad
37:24and then she wants nothing
37:25to do with him
37:26let's get Crystal on the show
37:27ladies and gentlemen
37:27how are you sweet
37:36you okay
37:36yeah
37:37sure
37:38what's upset you
37:40him
37:41he's a liar
37:41why
37:43don't even do that
37:44you knew from two weeks
37:47old and I told you
37:48no I didn't
37:49yes she did
37:49when you met me
37:50at the train station
37:51John
37:51yeah because
37:53asked me to come
37:54and meet you
37:54no we were on MSN
37:55you went
37:56if he's my son
37:57and I want to see
37:57my son today
37:58no because I got a text
37:59saying that you've got a kid
38:01no because you were on MSN
38:02on Facebook
38:02yeah that's where
38:03I got the text from
38:04yeah
38:05from
38:06not you
38:07I want to see
38:07my son today
38:08well no actually
38:10I said I want to come
38:11and meet you
38:11so you're saying
38:13he's saying
38:14that he doesn't even
38:15remember having sex
38:15with you
38:16yeah but he can remember
38:17that he used one condo
38:18no I said I take a condo out
38:20I take it out every weekend
38:22if I go out drinking
38:22no because that's not
38:23what you told Chelsea
38:24on the day that you met her in town
38:26do you know what I found
38:27really sad about this story
38:28you're a liar
38:28hold on a sec
38:29for people at home
38:30and people in the audience
38:31you lost your virginity
38:32to this man
38:33yeah
38:33yeah
38:36just imagine
38:38people say I'm getting
38:40old fashioned and boring
38:41but it's not much
38:42of a memory is it
38:43with potentially a man
38:44who got that drunk
38:45he can't even remember
38:46what were you doing
38:46having sex with him
38:47in the first place
38:48I was drunk
38:50and I was vulnerable
38:52no you were drunk love
38:54yeah
38:55can I be really honest
38:57I will take what your mother
38:58says about the age
38:59but I hope she will stand
39:00side by side
39:01don't give me that
39:01vulnerable rubbish
39:02okay
39:03you were drunk
39:04and that is one of
39:05the biggest problems
39:06and you can stop
39:07sitting there smirking
39:08because if you weren't drunk
39:09you might not be in the frame
39:10I don't know if you're the dad
39:11or not
39:11I know one thing about you though
39:13you're terrified
39:14how this is going to impact
39:15on your new girlfriend
39:16no my fiance's already
39:17turned round
39:18and said that she's
39:19going to support me anyway
39:20either way
39:20you sent her a text message
39:23about nappies
39:24what did it say
39:24oh it wasn't me
39:26that sent it
39:26but
39:27no he sent you one
39:28didn't he
39:29about how can I send you
39:30money for nappies
39:31if I'm trying to save
39:32for a wedding
39:32yeah
39:33yeah
39:34yeah
39:34yeah
39:35he managed to go away
39:36for two weeks
39:37hold on a second
39:37did you send that
39:38did you send that
39:38what
39:39did you send that text
39:41yeah
39:41yeah
39:42just to say a word
39:43who do you expect
39:44is going to buy the nappies
39:45for potentially your child
39:47if it is
39:47who do you think
39:48it's going to
39:48well I couldn't
39:49because I even turned around
39:50and said that I'm not
39:51giving any money
39:52answer the question
39:53who do you imagine
39:53what
39:54I don't know
39:55the social
39:56I don't know
39:58who's going to pay
39:58for your wedding
39:59well me
40:00if I save up
40:01or not
40:01what about priorities
40:02what about putting aside
40:04yet another relationship
40:05and maybe even another
40:06poor unfortunate child
40:07and doing what's right
40:08by the one that might be
40:09yours
40:10or the others
40:10is that not justifiably right
40:12I do what I can
40:13for my others
40:13you've done nothing
40:14for this child
40:14because I don't know
40:15if it's mine or not
40:16he doesn't need nothing
40:16he didn't know
40:17if it was yours John
40:18but you took him out
40:19the pram
40:19and shown him
40:20you ranted
40:20this is my son
40:21texting me every day
40:22how is my son today
40:24and then what you hear
40:25to watch the dating
40:26to your nanas
40:27two weeks
40:28after having an emergency
40:29infection
40:30no I don't think so
40:31to go and show your nana
40:31your son
40:32I don't think so
40:33I think so
40:34does your girlfriend
40:34know all this
40:35yeah
40:36let's get her out
40:37this is Claire on the show
40:38the latest
40:39this is Claire later
40:40have you ever told him
40:49that he can't see this child
40:51no
40:52no
40:53and then I get off
40:54you
40:55yeah
40:55that I'm
40:56and you're gonna kill me
40:57yeah
40:58go on
40:59yeah
40:59well I'm here now
41:01you're the one
41:02you're the one
41:03that texts her
41:04off his phone
41:05telling her
41:06to leave your man
41:07alone
41:08yeah
41:08because she was
41:10ringing him
41:10and texting him
41:11all night
41:12he was the one
41:13texting her
41:14wanting to know
41:14what his son was doing
41:15was his son awake
41:17had his son
41:17had a bottle
41:18hold on a second
41:19hold on a second
41:19do you accept
41:21that he might have a kid
41:21with her
41:22yeah
41:22and how's that
41:23going to implode
41:24impact on your relationship
41:25because he says
41:26he'd rather save for a wedding
41:27than buy nappies
41:28and you want to have a baby
41:30with him love do you
41:31I'll stand by you
41:32no no
41:33you're having a baby
41:34with a man
41:34who would rather save
41:35for some wedding
41:35than pay for nappies
41:36yeah
41:37have you ever worked out
41:38what might happen to you
41:39if he disappears
41:41have you ever thought
41:42about that
41:42yeah
41:43what
41:43that it could be
41:45I really do
41:46then you'll know
41:47how I feel
41:48you told my researchers
41:50that you think
41:52that Crystal
41:52is jealous
41:53yeah
41:54because you're skinny
41:55and she's chubby
41:56yeah
41:57I had a baby
41:58two weeks ago
41:58love
41:59by emergency
42:00hang on a minute
42:00did you say that
42:02what
42:03did you say that
42:04what like
42:05she was chubby
42:06I went and she was
42:07bigger built
42:07I mean
42:08I didn't say chubby
42:08she's been there
42:10for her son
42:11where's he been
42:11because I can have a baby
42:12to win but you can't
42:13exactly
42:14see what I mean
42:15what the second
42:16little game
42:17like
42:18you're the mother
42:19and you're the mother
42:20yeah
42:20I'm a lot older
42:21in you yeah
42:22and you feel
42:23oh shut up a minute
42:24you feel proud
42:25about that do you
42:26that you've got two girls
42:27at different ends
42:28of a stage
42:29on national television
42:30said I can have a baby
42:31to him
42:31you can't
42:32why don't you
42:33why don't you
42:34put something
42:35on the end of it
42:36and stop playing
42:36with people's lives
42:37at the end of the day
42:40that's wrong
42:41what she's just
42:41turned down to her
42:42and said
42:43no things wrong
42:44mate
42:44and it wouldn't have
42:44happened if you
42:45hadn't been spreading
42:46it around the place
42:47without any thought
42:48for responsibility
42:48how am I supposed
42:49to know what I'm doing
42:50if I'm out of my face
42:51you wasn't
42:53yes I was
42:53what does that say
42:55I was out of my face
42:56one of the biggest
42:57problems in this country
42:58through binge drinking
42:59is immature little
43:00teenagers like you
43:02who create life
43:03potentially
43:03maybe with this lady
43:04or maybe not
43:05and then expect
43:06the rest of us
43:06right
43:07who go to work
43:08to pick up the tab
43:08and do you know
43:09what that smirk
43:10does my head in
43:10because it's about
43:11time somebody
43:12in this country
43:12told people like you
43:13to pay for your own
43:14selves
43:15it's ridiculous
43:15you know full well
43:20that you can procreate
43:21and the tab will be
43:22picked up by every
43:23taxpayer
43:24I hope whoever gets
43:25elected is watching
43:26because people like him
43:27should be struck off
43:28we will do DNA results
43:29next I'm right back
43:30I know
43:31I know he's the dad
43:32but he ain't having
43:33anything to do with him
43:33he's called him an it
43:35the thing
43:36it's that
43:37yeah
43:37he ain't having anything
43:38to do with him
43:39he don't serve people
43:40like that in his life
43:41the DNA test does not
43:42show that John
43:43well well well
43:45633.34
44:00text costs 25 pence
44:02plus one standard
44:03network rate message
44:04you can call the team
44:04it's 09011
44:06123456
44:07calls costs 25 pence
44:08from a BT landline
44:09now calls from other
44:10networks may be higher
44:11calls from mobile
44:11will be considerably more
44:13but don't forget to go
44:13to the website for free
44:14the address
44:15itv.com
44:16it's forward slash
44:17Jeremy Kyle
44:18thank you very much
44:26indeed welcome back
44:27so DNA results
44:28let's just nail this right
44:29you've got to understand
44:30when people watch this
44:32and they hear you saying
44:34I was too drunk to even
44:35know if I was having sex
44:36or creating a life
44:36that ain't good
44:37true or false
44:38true
44:39now whether or not
44:40you have other kids
44:41and whether or not
44:41you're going to have
44:42another one
44:42there is a responsibility
44:44if this is yours
44:45and then we come to you guys
44:47you're as responsible as him
44:48you had unprotected sex
44:49with him
44:49you got drunk
44:50your mum admitted that
44:51I know
44:51and then the two of you
44:53are sat here
44:53I understand your frustration
44:54but making threats to kill her
44:55and then saying
44:56you're not seeing this child
44:57the child's suddenly
44:58a weapon in the game
44:59but you don't have a right
45:00but you don't have a right to say that
45:01yeah I do
45:01why
45:01because I provided for that baby
45:03I've been with her
45:04through a pregnancy
45:06but at least this is being done now
45:06at ten days and not two years
45:08well ten weeks
45:08and do you not think
45:09that if this child
45:10turns out to be his
45:11that child has a right
45:13to know it's father
45:13but you're making that decision
45:15for that child
45:15what do you want?
45:18I know he's a dad
45:19but he ain't having anything
45:20to do with him
45:21he's called him an it
45:22the thing
45:23what's that?
45:24yeah
45:25he ain't having anything
45:26to do with him
45:26he don't serve people
45:27like that in his life
45:28it's not fair enough
45:28imagine having a baby with him
45:30if he calls it it
45:30or that or the thing
45:31but you're going to be together
45:33forever aren't you?
45:34how do you feel about the fact
45:35you might have four kids
45:36by the way?
45:38he's 19
45:39how do you feel about that?
45:41alright about it
45:42alright
45:42you're going to have
45:44a whole family
45:44what four or five each
45:45yeah?
45:46double figures
45:46let's do those
45:47all important DNA results
45:48please
45:48the truth of the matter is
45:52there's a ten week old child
45:54I understand the frustration
45:55on all sides
45:56but this could have been avoided
45:57yeah
45:58if you both hadn't got drunk
45:59the DNA testers ought to show
46:02that John
46:02well well well
46:05he is your child
46:11thank you
46:14I don't believe you couldn't
46:19remember having sex
46:20because what's that old adage
46:21I think this is all about you
46:23with your new girlfriend
46:24there's nothing to do about that
46:26you've got a child
46:27and now you're probably
46:28quite chuffed
46:29that they don't want you
46:30to have anything to do with it
46:31yeah
46:31because it's easier
46:32then why aren't you fighting?
46:34because at the end of the day
46:35I'm not having them threaten
46:35my fiancé yet
46:36and then expect me to have
46:37something to do with the child
46:38that was only in retaliation
46:39that was only in retaliation
46:41because everything you were saying
46:43I don't think
46:44I don't think in five years
46:45I've ever said that
46:46so we're all in agreement
46:47you don't want him to see the kid
46:48and you don't want him to see the kid
46:48and you don't want to be seeing the kid
46:50because you want to go and live with your girlfriend
46:52and make another life
46:52it was only on boxing day that his girlfriend
46:53did you know that he phoned crystal on boxing day
46:56on boxing day morning
46:57can I just say
46:58is this an agreement?
46:59you don't want to see the kid
47:00because it would be easy
47:01he can come and find me when he's 16
47:02yeah
47:03and you don't want him to see the kid
47:04is that the agreement?
47:07some pause
47:07that suits us
47:10let me tell you something
47:11absolutely here and now
47:12everybody who watches this show
47:16will know that I think that is wrong
47:17but if you've agreed
47:18you've agreed
47:18let me tell you something
47:19one day shut your mouth
47:21and listen to me
47:22one day this will come back
47:23one day your child
47:25might choose not to come and find you
47:27or might even see what you just said
47:29I hope you can live with it
47:30and more importantly
47:31latest beau
47:32make sure
47:33you know what you're letting yourself in for
47:35because I think at the first sign of responsibility
47:38the boy with the painted jeans
47:39will do a runner
47:40you two go that way
47:40you go that way
47:41thank you very much indeed
47:42good luck
47:43thank you very much
47:44good luck to all of them
47:50more importantly
47:51good luck to that child
47:52I am for this morning
47:52out of time
47:53as ever
47:53I'd like to thank all of today's guests
47:55this lovely audience in the studio
47:56but most of all
47:57as ever
47:57a big thank you to you for watching home
47:59I'll see you very soon
47:59take care
48:00bye for now
48:03thank you
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48:33You