The Jeremy Kyle Show 7th March 2018
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00:00You're watching On Demand. Please check the closing time before trying to vote or enter any competition or other interactivity in this programme, as it may not count and you may still be charged.
00:10On today's show, everybody, Jeremy, right, makes mistakes, but you have committed some of the worst and some of the most publicised, right, of anybody that's ever been on this show.
00:21This is your chance. What do you want to admit to?
00:26Are you violent to women, Jeremy McConnell?
00:28Do you think you deserve what you've got?
00:32I've seen your son for eight months. How can you be described as a good father?
00:36How do you earn a living?
00:38What's your mum and dad say about the way you've lived your life in the last three years?
00:42Disgusting.
00:45You said the holiday was wild. She kept walking around naked the whole time.
00:49Well, this is what I put in sleep's naked.
00:51She always wanted to see me with my top off all the time. It was very intimidating.
00:56As soon as we got there, Lauren nearly got us arrested.
01:02Police! Are you having a laugh?
01:04She was drunk.
01:05That is not true.
01:07And you told everybody they paid for everything, which is a lie.
01:10You lie!
01:11Well, my friends, good morning and a big, big welcome to the show right today.
01:34I'm going to be meeting guests who have hit the headlines and earned the notorious celebrity status
01:39from their outrageous and sometimes scandalous behaviour on and off our TV screens.
01:44Now, my first guest today has been in and out of the national papers since hitting our screens in 2016.
01:50So here to tell his side of the story and explain the truth behind the tabloids,
01:53please welcome Jeremy McConnell to the Jeremy Kyle Show, that way.
02:04All right? Take a seat.
02:06All right?
02:07No, I'm good, mate. I'm good.
02:08Um, I was sitting thinking, what was the right way to start this?
02:14So I'll be as honest as I can be.
02:17Since we announced we were going to do this, somewhat of an uproar.
02:22A lot of people with what's been written about you would say,
02:26why are you interviewing somebody like that?
02:28A couple of things I want to say.
02:30This show has always been about both sides of an argument
02:34and giving people the chance to put their side, answer allegations and be honest.
02:41Today, I'll do it as I always do it. I will be hard.
02:45Today, I'm hoping that you might show some remorse for what you've done.
02:51You all right with that?
02:51Yeah, of course.
02:52So let's start.
02:54You violent to women?
02:55Um, the relationship wasn't very healthy from the get-go, kind of.
03:00You know, that was due to facts that I wasn't, you know, infidelity issues
03:04and I started off, kind of, you know, like I wasn't really, you know, genuine at the start.
03:09Do you know what I mean? On that.
03:09So you cheated on her?
03:10Yeah.
03:11I have to be very careful and I have to say to you at this point,
03:13because always on the Jeremy Kyle Show, there is, quite rightly, legally,
03:18the need for a right to reply.
03:19Yeah, quite a bit.
03:20I can't talk about what Stephanie Davis might or might not think about anything.
03:24This is about what I, and I hope the viewers, want to learn about you.
03:29Yeah, well, I'm not coming on to slag her off.
03:31Like, I think everyone's sick of the tiff or that and that, do you know what I mean?
03:33Why do you keep doing it, then?
03:35It's very hard, like, because I try to stay dignified, do you know what I mean?
03:38As much as I can, you know, and I know it sounds stupid,
03:40because we have been embroiled in these Twitter wars, as they're called, do you know what I mean?
03:45And, you know, sometimes when they say, you know,
03:48don't believe what you read and that, but a lot of people do now.
03:50My problem with don't believe what you read,
03:52and anybody who's in the public eye would acknowledge that the press have a job to do,
03:58be it written or spoken, and if you are in that and you welcome it in,
04:03then you have to accept what you're going to get.
04:05I don't do Twitter, this show does, I don't do any of that.
04:08You very much do that.
04:10Why, if you are pretending today or saying that that's not really you,
04:16why do you welcome it with opening arms every single day of your life, then?
04:19First of all, I'd never come on to a show and pretend to be someone different.
04:22I think, you know, if anything, I've been very open,
04:25and I've always taken responsibility for my actions, you know.
04:28I do, you know, I've been open with my addictions.
04:32OK, if you've been open, then we've been talking for three minutes,
04:35and you haven't answered my question.
04:37Are you violent, Jeremy McConnell, to women?
04:39I'm not violent to women, do you know, there was an incident that happened.
04:42What happened?
04:43The incident which I was convicted of, you know,
04:45and I accept the responsibility.
04:47What were you convicted for, for people who don't know?
04:49Common assault.
04:51For that incident, you know, I'm not going to get into the ins and outs.
04:54At the end of the day, I was convicted of a crime,
04:56and I'd done my punishment, you know, and...
04:58As a man, how did that make you feel when you were convicted?
05:01Demoralised, like, I'm still, like,
05:03obviously going to prison and, you know, spending...
05:06I don't want... I'm not playing the victim.
05:08I took it on the chain, like I said, I'd done my time,
05:10I'd done my five weeks in prison, I'd done my tag, you know,
05:13and I just want to move forward now, you know, and see my son and that.
05:16It made me feel, you know, of course...
05:17You're a good father.
05:19I haven't seen your son for eight months.
05:21How can you be described as a good father?
05:22Well, I think, obviously, when you look at the way it's happened,
05:25that me and Steph were living together,
05:26when this, obviously, the incident happened,
05:28I went to court, you know, the restraining order was put in place,
05:32you know, I can go through the correct channels to see my son,
05:35yeah, I can do that.
05:36You miss him?
05:36Yeah, of course I miss him, I love him.
05:38Like, I love him to bits, like, you know?
05:41And, um...
05:41When you look at that picture, what do you think?
05:44Like, it's sad, I don't know, but, um...
05:47Why is it sad?
05:49Cos I look at him, like, that's the link to my mum and dad,
05:52you know, when my dad passed away, like, and that's my little boy,
05:54you know what I mean?
05:54And I never wanted a broken relationship with Steph,
05:57I was...
05:57I was a d***.
05:58She was my language, you know what I mean?
05:59I've done...
06:00I've...
06:00I had my part of playing the relationship,
06:02that was bad, but...
06:03I'm not a bad person, you know what I mean?
06:04And I think if anyone saw me, I'd be brother and that,
06:07like, you know what I mean?
06:08That was me, like, being a genuine bloke,
06:10and I've always been like that, but I...
06:11Stick with that picture a minute.
06:13It's heartbreaking.
06:13You've got emotional when you watched that,
06:15and you talked about...
06:16And I'll give you some credit here.
06:18I don't...
06:19Listen, a lot of what we do in our lives
06:22comes about when things happen to us,
06:25and you lost an awful lot of people.
06:27As a young man, you lost, I think, your mother,
06:30you lost your brother, your sister within a year and a half,
06:34you lost your dad recently.
06:36I don't want to upset you, Jeremy,
06:37I want to give you the chance to show some remorse.
06:39Already in the first five minutes,
06:41I think you've been more honest today than you have for a long time.
06:43Look at me.
06:44What would your mum and dad say
06:45about the way you've lived your life in the last three years?
06:47Disgusted.
06:49It's hard, like, I've never...
06:51I've always put on the front, like...
06:53You know, it is scandalous, do you know what I mean?
06:55But my dad always brought me up as an athlete, do you know what I mean?
06:59I played, like, semi-professional football, professional football,
07:02I was getting paid to play at a healthy lifestyle.
07:04And then I kind of went into the, you know,
07:09the modelling side of things and, you know, women, drugs, everything, you know,
07:15I just...
07:15Him.
07:15When you look at that photo...
07:17It's heartbreaking.
07:18Like, I've missed out...
07:18Is he going to be proud of a man that's been to prison?
07:20Is he going to be proud of a man that's done what you've done?
07:23Of course not.
07:24The drugs, the cheating, the infidel, whatever.
07:26Is he?
07:27Of course not, mate.
07:28How are you going to become a role model for him?
07:31By making the correct moves, which I'm doing now at the moment,
07:34I'm only...
07:34Like, I've only come off my tag, do you know what I mean?
07:36You still on drug?
07:38No, I haven't done drugs since prison.
07:39I am drinking, though.
07:40I know, last night, yeah?
07:41Yeah, it was my birthday last night, so I had a bottle of wine.
07:44Like, but...
07:44It's...
07:45But, like, don't get me wrong, I drank heavily, like,
07:47when I came out of prison, really heavily, you know, and...
07:49But that's just blocked it out, doesn't it?
07:51It doesn't deal with it.
07:52Like, I...
07:53It's like, I went to rehab, do you know what I mean?
07:55I came out of rehab and...
07:57Is that the last time you took drugs?
07:58No, I relapsed.
07:59And then...
08:00What drugs?
08:01Cocaine, was my...
08:02Where did you get the money for that?
08:04How do you earn a living?
08:06I had sponsorship deals, I had everything when I came out of Big Brother.
08:09Can I make a point?
08:11Jeremy's not been paid for this interview today,
08:13and for the people who would say, you know,
08:15why are you doing this?
08:15Because this show has always been about both sides of the...
08:18How do you provide a future for him, be it morally, financially?
08:23How do you do that, from where you are?
08:24I think the best way to do it is kind of get out of this game.
08:27Like, obviously, my job offers are...
08:29Like, I'm not coming on here to try and, you know,
08:31it's not damage control or anything.
08:33I know my career is over in TV.
08:35No one's going to touch me with a 10-foot pole.
08:37Why?
08:38Well, once you have...
08:39My name is tarnished, you know, and I accept that.
08:41And...
08:42Do you not think there's a way of changing that perception,
08:43being honest, showing some remorse?
08:45That's what I'm doing, you know, and I've accepted that.
08:48Do you know what somebody said to me about you this morning?
08:50What's that?
08:50He likes the bad boy image.
08:52He's loved the whole thing.
08:53He's played it.
08:53I think there's a bad boy image,
08:55and then there's a front that you can put on to portray that.
08:57There's nothing like the image that I portray to the public.
08:59There's nothing like that.
09:00So it's a shield?
09:01I would say so, yeah.
09:02Massively.
09:03A massive shield.
09:04Why? Because of what?
09:04Hurt in the past?
09:05Hurt, yeah.
09:06I would say so, yeah.
09:07But you've ended up being massively hurt and hurting other people.
09:10I'm hurting myself as well, and now it's Cabe,
09:12and then you think, he's going to look at this one day.
09:15I'm not a scumbag.
09:16People call me a scumbag, and I don't care about my son.
09:17Do you think people out there think you're a scumbag?
09:19100%, yes.
09:20How does that make you feel?
09:20Horrible.
09:21How do you change that?
09:22I said to you at the beginning about showing some remorse.
09:25This is your chance, OK?
09:27What do you want to admit to?
09:40Let's go back to the drugs.
09:41How bad was it?
09:42You said you were spending shed loads of money.
09:44Yeah, the drug, it got particularly bad when my dad was diagnosed with cancer.
09:51I dabbled in drugs a lot from the modelling days, you know,
09:54in nightclubs, you're introduced to it.
09:56First of all, you get a sniff in the toilet, then it escalates,
09:59you know what I mean?
09:59Then you're buying drugs, and then eventually it got to the stage
10:02where I was sitting in my...
10:03I wouldn't even...
10:03We'd have a pre-party in the house.
10:05I'd sniff, and I wouldn't even go out.
10:07You know what I mean?
10:07I'd sit in the house and do the drugs on my own.
10:09Do you earn lots of money from your career?
10:10Erm, it wouldn't be like I did, you know, but yeah, it was quite...
10:15Lost it all?
10:17Yeah, it went, like my dad said, up against the wall, yeah.
10:21It was disgusting.
10:22It's a horrible business to be in this.
10:24If you don't play your cards right, it's...
10:26If you go and self-destruct, you know, if you do it right with a business head,
10:31it can be a very...
10:31Erm, you know, it can be...
10:33So you blew most of what you earned on drugs?
10:36I would say that, and just being so irresponsible of money, like, yeah.
10:39When you look back, you know, it's...
10:41When it's coming in, it's nice to have it, but when you lose it,
10:44you're just like, what was I doing, do you know what I mean?
10:46And I'm ashamed.
10:46Worst moment?
10:47Worst moment with drugs?
10:49As I touched on it, my dad, he was a massive part of my football career,
10:54and he wanted me...
10:55He'd done everything, you know, my breakfast would be made in the morning,
10:58everything fizzy, everything was...
11:00He wanted me just to be...
11:01Do what I was good at, you know, and that was play football.
11:04He came in one day when I was still on a session,
11:07I was really bad.
11:07I used to get really bad paranoia.
11:09Really bad, you know, accusing my friends of stabbing me in the back,
11:13you know, and especially in this industry,
11:15if there's a source, quote, you're questioning everybody, you know.
11:17But he came in and he saw me in the bed,
11:20surrounded by Jack Daniels.
11:21There was numerous bottles of Jack Daniels there.
11:23I must have went through about half ounce of cocaine in 24 hours,
11:27sitting there looking at him, man.
11:28I was just like...
11:30just disgusted, like, you know.
11:32What did he say?
11:33It was actually worse, because he didn't actually say anything,
11:35but, you know, and you can see in someone's eyes, like, that they're...
11:40It was...
11:41Did that kill you that he died, knowing that you were in a bad way?
11:44Yeah.
11:46It did, like...
11:47Yeah.
11:50Couldn't be proud of you then, at the end?
11:53He wasn't. He told me that.
11:54He was embarrassed? What did he say?
11:56It's not... I wouldn't say...
11:57I think it was beyond the point of being embarrassed, you know.
12:00I think he was just totally ashamed of me.
12:04Do you think that the paranoia that you talk about,
12:07the desperation to score the drugs, the money that you owe...
12:10Do you think that was a contributing factor
12:13into you being abusive in the relationship?
12:15I think I got very, very arrogant.
12:18I think I lost myself.
12:19But you hit a woman, didn't you?
12:21I mean, let's be perfectly honest.
12:22There was a lot of domestic abuse in that relationship.
12:26I mean, that, by anybody's standards, is disgusting...
12:30And it's wrong for any person to do that.
12:32And it doesn't matter whether you're a celebrity on television or you're a man or a woman in the street.
12:37Any violence is fundamentally wrong.
12:39And we can sit here and we can say,
12:41you had a drug problem and your parents, you lost them both, sadly.
12:44No, I'm not trying to give a sob story.
12:45There are plenty of people, Jeremy, who do that and they don't beat up their girlfriend.
12:48100%. Listen, I'm not trying to come on here and give a sob story.
12:51I'm saying that there was a part of my life that was a really dark patch.
12:54And I've done my...
12:55I've thrown people off here who beat women up.
12:57Yeah, Jeremy...
12:58Why am I not doing that to you?
12:59What I'm saying to you is I take full responsibility.
13:00So the conviction was right, it was proper...
13:03It was just... I've done my time and I accept it.
13:05And you have to live with that forever?
13:06Forever.
13:07Wife-beater?
13:08That's what I'm going to be called.
13:09And, you know...
13:10How does that sit?
13:11It's horrible because if people look inside me, they know that that's not in my...
13:15I'm not a scumbag.
13:16People call me a scumbag.
13:17I don't care about my son.
13:18You think people out there think you're a scumbag?
13:19100%, yes.
13:20How does that make you feel?
13:21Horrible.
13:22How do you change that?
13:23Well, this is what I'm hoping today is, like, I'm trying to be as genuine as I can.
13:27Literally, like, it's not in my nature to be like that.
13:29I have a massive heart and I do...
13:30Honestly, I'd help anybody out.
13:32And, you know, I'm not an aggressive person.
13:34But we go back to your son who's going to grow up and read this and hear it.
13:37Exactly.
13:38My dad was a violent bully.
13:39Jeremy, I'm living with that every day, and it's not a nice thing.
13:42Do you get abused in the street?
13:43I wouldn't say abused, but, you know, it's not nice, like, going into Tescos and that, like,
13:47and then, you know, there's, like, maybe a few girls behind you
13:50and their opinion on you is, like, is that, you know?
13:53Do you blame them?
13:54Well, no, because that's what it is, isn't it?
13:56But it's everyone that speaks to me, like, they're just, like,
13:59it's not what we read in the press, you know what I mean?
14:01Because I like, like, I am a genuine person, you know what I mean?
14:03I know you've had people come on here and they bluff you and they, you know what I mean?
14:07They manipulate the situation.
14:08If I take what you're saying, that the lights come on and you've changed,
14:12what was that moment?
14:14Was it prison?
14:15Was it seeing the girl that you'd been violent to in court when you were convicted
14:19and sent down?
14:20Was it knowing that you haven't seen your kid?
14:22Was it the realisation that your son will read all of that?
14:25It was the fact that I need to stop being selfish and...
14:28Or are you, are you just...
14:30Don't get upset.
14:31Are you acting?
14:32Have you changed or are you just crying out for people to go,
14:34he's all right there, Jeremy?
14:35Listen, it's not in my nature to...
14:38What you're seeing today is true emotion and I speak from the heart.
14:41I'm not here to give a premeditated speech.
14:43You know, I watch you in prison.
14:45What are you hiding from me?
14:47What have you not admitted to me?
14:49Today, here, these people, here and at home,
14:52I said to you at the beginning about showing some remorse.
14:55This is your chance, okay?
14:57What do you want to admit to?
15:00What do you accept you could have done differently?
15:03How does Gerry McConnell put his hands in the air?
15:05I've done my time.
15:06I accepted my punishment.
15:08Like I said, I could go into the relationship in detail.
15:11No, no, you.
15:12Infidelity, yes.
15:14Hands in the air.
15:15Paranoia, accusations.
15:19Drinking.
15:20Assault.
15:21Drugs, assault.
15:22Probably, you know, maybe being emotional.
15:25Do you know what I mean?
15:26I'd be paranoid if I was doing drugs, you know.
15:29But again, it's not coming from a place of...
15:32It's not coming from a vindictive place in my heart.
15:34Do you blame what happened in your life?
15:36Do you blame the public scrutiny and doing Big Brother
15:40and suddenly being thrust into the spotlight?
15:42Or is this you inside that did this, irrespective of whatever pressure
15:46and you have to take responsibility?
15:48I think you have to take full responsibility as a person.
15:51There's always going to be distractions in life
15:53that cause you a great deal of stress or whatever, but you can't...
15:57Like I said, that's projection, isn't it?
15:59It's passing your problems on to something.
16:00At the end of the day, you have to live with it.
16:02It was my...
16:03Do you wish you hadn't done Big Brother?
16:04Did you wish you could walk down the street and nobody would know you?
16:06I thoroughly enjoyed Big Brother.
16:07I loved Big Brother and I met some fantastic people on Big Brother.
16:10It was my problem when I changed.
16:12Not Big Brother.
16:13Big Brother didn't change me.
16:14I changed after Big Brother.
16:15I got cocky.
16:16There was money coming in.
16:17You're skinned?
16:18There's no...
16:19My what?
16:20You're skinned.
16:21No, I haven't...
16:22Like, I've saved it.
16:23And again, for Caban, do you know what I mean?
16:24I'm...
16:25Not that I have to explain to people, but of course I have the foresight
16:28to be able to put stuff aside for Caban.
16:30Do you know what I mean?
16:31Of course I'll write a birthday card for him.
16:32And in the future, obviously with the restraining order,
16:34I can't knock up the staff...
16:35How long does the restraining order go on?
16:37Three years, like...
16:38So you can't see your son for three years?
16:39I can, like I said, through mediation.
16:41But like I said...
16:42In a contact centre.
16:43Why aren't you then?
16:44Like I said, I'm only out of prison.
16:45I got my tag off.
16:46There's stuff that has to be sorted legally.
16:47It's the first thing on my mind.
16:48But every day on this show I arrange...
16:49It's the first thing on my mind.
16:50Contact centre.
16:51Go prove the world that you can go into a sterile environment
16:52and do it, right?
16:53Of course, 100%.
16:54Because you know what?
16:55And I'll do this every day.
16:56What will happen is the detractors will go,
16:58you can give a damn.
16:59You'll go out the night before, get high, get drunk,
17:01have an argument, he won't turn up,
17:02and then she'll be able to say to you,
17:03son, look, I gave a dad.
17:05My advice would be...
17:06And I don't see this as any different story
17:08than any other Jeremy Carr bung in a bit of celebrity.
17:10The truth is this, right?
17:11You go to that contact centre, you only get two hours,
17:13it breaks your heart but you play with him
17:15and you prove to him over time
17:17and it builds and it builds and it builds.
17:19That's a way of getting your respect.
17:21Doing that from scratch.
17:22It doesn't matter how famous you are
17:23or what money you might or might not have
17:25or what you've done.
17:26He...
17:27And there will be a moment, I guess,
17:28if you're being honest,
17:29where you will be able to say to him,
17:30look, my hands are in the air, I'm messed up.
17:32But I've tried for you.
17:34Exactly.
17:35I'm not saying that I'm in a perfect frame of mind.
17:37You know what I mean?
17:38This stuff that's happened has eaten away at me every day.
17:40I get terrible abuse on Twitter and that, like...
17:42You can find yourself getting very self-absorbed.
17:45That's what you should be thinking.
17:47He's amazing, isn't he? I know.
17:48And trust me, Jeremy, I am, like, in prison.
17:50Trust me, when I'm sitting and I'm not doing a sob story
17:52in prison on Christmas Day,
17:53do you know what I mean?
17:54That was a really big wake-up call.
17:56It was a bad kind of time.
17:58Do you feel that watching this people will go,
18:03aww, or do you think watching this people will go...
18:05I think people will say what happened to him.
18:07Do you think people will go,
18:09actually deserved what he got?
18:11Well, that's the core, isn't it?
18:14Do you think you deserve what you got?
18:16Or do you think...
18:17Listen, I was given a sentence and I'd done it
18:20and that will not happen again.
18:21Where do you go from here?
18:23The main thing is being able to, you know, get settled.
18:28You know, like...
18:29I think a lot of people will walk away from this and go,
18:33he was accused of a lot of things that he's put his hands up to,
18:36but 20 minutes isn't going to change our perception.
18:38Of course not.
18:39Maybe...
18:40Maybe we've had a chance to see underneath.
18:42Is that an act?
18:44Is it real?
18:45I'm just being...
18:46Of course, yeah.
18:47I'm just being straight with you.
18:48Yeah.
18:49But...
18:50Your son and his opinion.
18:51Somebody said to me one day, this is deadly serious,
18:53said to me,
18:54that'll be a legacy, won't it?
18:56And I went, what?
18:57And they went, the Jeremy Carr show.
18:58And I must have gone like this.
18:59That's not my legacy.
19:01My legacy will be, please God,
19:03that my four kids said,
19:06he did all right, he did.
19:07He wasn't always perfect, but he was a good dad.
19:09Everybody, Jeremy, right, makes mistakes.
19:12But you have committed some of the worst
19:14and some of the most publicised, right,
19:16of anybody that's ever been on this show.
19:18Where you go from here is about you and your kid.
19:22I know.
19:23I know.
19:24The test's for you, isn't it?
19:25Like I said, yeah.
19:26Or you can slip off the side again
19:27and feel sorry for yourself,
19:28take drugs, do whatever.
19:30You'll never see your son.
19:31That's...
19:32I wouldn't even be thinking about my careers in tatters.
19:34I'd be thinking about,
19:35is my chance of being a dad in tatters?
19:38Because if I don't change now, that is done.
19:40I know it sounds stupid,
19:41but I'm kind of like,
19:42even though it's not physical contact,
19:44there's things set aside for him.
19:45So in a way, I'm being maybe a future,
19:47that doesn't even make sense.
19:49But should I mean,
19:50there's things put aside for Caban.
19:52It's just contact...
19:53Do you know what he wants?
19:54He wants a father to...
19:55He wants his dad to be honest,
19:57to be real,
19:58to be decent,
19:59and to be a role model.
20:01And you would be honest and say,
20:03you haven't been a role model.
20:04Can you be one that's...
20:05100%.
20:06That's all I want to do,
20:07is what my dad wanted me to be,
20:08is a footballer, kick ball with him.
20:09So I'm missing that now.
20:10Do you know what I mean?
20:11Like, I don't want to be going there,
20:12but it is like,
20:13it's self-destruct when you're not having it.
20:14In life, I know one thing.
20:16People can tell you,
20:17your team, whoever it is,
20:18you, in there, right?
20:20That's it.
20:21The bottom line,
20:22if you want to turn your life round,
20:24you turn your life round.
20:25I appreciate you coming here.
20:26Yeah, thanks so much for having us on the reception.
20:28I'm going to finish as I started.
20:30Are you violent to women, Jeremy McConnell?
20:33I have been.
20:34Thanks for coming on the Jeremy Kyle Show.
20:36Good luck.
20:44Now, apparently,
20:45some people might describe my next two guests
20:47as national treasures.
20:48Socialite Lauren has been in the public eye
20:50since she was a child,
20:51but says that life as a celebrity is far from easy.
20:54Lauren's here today to confront her friend,
20:56Lisa, an ex-big-brother housemate,
20:58who is now infamous with the paparazzi
21:00for doing things like this,
21:01ladies and gentlemen.
21:08Putting the bins out in your knickers.
21:12It's hard to believe these two ladies
21:13have had much in common,
21:14but both tell us they forged a special friendship.
21:16However, it went badly wrong.
21:19Now, the lady in the pants
21:20and the other lady are at war,
21:22and from what I gather,
21:23it's centred around
21:24a girly holiday
21:25in Benidorm.
21:30In their pants.
21:31Lauren is on the Jeremy Kyle Show.
21:32That one.
21:42How are you?
21:43I'm all right.
21:45Hello, everyone.
21:46To be honest,
21:47if I'd sat down and thought,
21:49let's put two people together
21:50on a girly holiday in Benidorm,
21:52it wouldn't have been Lauren Harris
21:53and Lisa Appleton.
21:54No.
21:55Well,
21:56I take people to face value.
21:58How did you meet?
21:59On Twitter or something?
22:00I knew her on Twitter,
22:01and then I started talking to her on the phone.
22:03If these things happen,
22:04and it's very difficult...
22:05Well, it doesn't to me,
22:06because I'm not on Twitter.
22:07No, but it takes...
22:08It's very difficult to have a relationship
22:09with celebrities,
22:10but I thought she was just a spiritual person
22:13like myself,
22:14although she's outrageous.
22:15You thought she was genuine?
22:16I thought there was a heart in there.
22:17But then, of course, the holiday.
22:19Tell me about that.
22:20I've never been to that.
22:21Well, she said to me
22:22she wanted to go to Benidorm for four days,
22:24and I'd already been,
22:25and I like Benidorm,
22:26so I thought,
22:27well, that's great.
22:28I loved your description.
22:29Can I just do this?
22:30Yes.
22:31I just wanted to be asked, too,
22:32a week in the sun,
22:33relaxing and eating...
22:35Avocados.
22:37Cos they make you look younger,
22:3820 years younger
22:39if you eat an avocado.
22:40But Lisa ate all the avocados
22:42and told me they were off.
22:43She said we'd be cooking...
22:45She said...
22:46She said we'd be...
22:47I want you to cook every day,
22:48I wanted to stay in the apartment
22:50and then just lie on the beach.
22:51But, of course,
22:52her entourage was six people.
22:54Like, oh, my God.
22:55So you thought you were going
22:56to lie on the beach
22:57and eat avocados?
22:58Yeah.
22:59And other food.
23:00Of course.
23:01Good.
23:02Yeah.
23:03She planned for a slightly different trip
23:04and suddenly all the mates arrived
23:06and it was a big party every night.
23:07It was a big...
23:08Yes.
23:09Yeah, but basically,
23:10there's two things that she's done.
23:12The first night,
23:14I have coverage of the spine,
23:16so I do very well considering.
23:18But my medication was...
23:20wasn't taken.
23:21Most of my tablets were taken out the bottle.
23:23By whom?
23:24By one of the people in the club.
23:26I'm not blaming anybody.
23:27I'm not...
23:28And then...
23:29Put them in your ice cream!
23:30And then...
23:31You put them in your ice cream!
23:32She just said you put it in your ice cream.
23:33And you glass of wine?
23:34I don't eat ice cream.
23:35I don't eat ice cream.
23:36I don't eat ice cream.
23:37Is it avocado flavoured ice cream?
23:38No, I don't...
23:39I don't eat ice cream.
23:40She doesn't eat ice cream.
23:41And regardless...
23:42On camera...
23:43It'll have your turn, Lisa Appleton.
23:45It's like being on the Jeremy Kyle show.
23:49She always wanted to see me with my top off all the time.
23:52It was very intimidating.
23:54You said the holiday was wild.
23:55She kept walking around naked the whole time.
23:57Well, Lisa Appleton sleeps naked.
23:59She is very, very...
24:00a flamboyant person,
24:02but she's also a meditation,
24:04and that's the sort of person I thought she was,
24:06but then I soon realised that...
24:08I watched that she wasn't.
24:10What's this about being stranded in Benidorm?
24:13It was brilliant.
24:14Don't even go there.
24:15When on the last day...
24:16On the last day,
24:17her friends said they'd pick me up
24:18to take me home.
24:19You know, take me to the airport.
24:21Which is fine.
24:22But the car never came,
24:23because apparently the car was full of stuff.
24:26So there was no car, nothing.
24:28So I had to run.
24:29My feet get swollen in the sun.
24:30Run, run, run, run, run.
24:31Half an hour to get to the coach.
24:33I get on the coach,
24:34and then I've got two...
24:36I've got 20 minutes to get through security,
24:38get through customs,
24:39and get on the EasyJet plane.
24:41Or any other leading airline.
24:42Or any other...
24:43No, any other plane.
24:44Any other...
24:45Did you make the flight?
24:46Well, I couldn't...
24:47Did you make the flight?
24:48I did, with no shoes.
24:49They had...
24:50They said, put them on.
24:51They said, put them on.
24:52You've got...
24:53Are you all right, madam?
24:54I said, well...
24:55I said, I am.
24:56I'm fine.
24:57So you lost your shoes?
24:58I lost my shoes on the way there.
24:59And they said...
25:00This is a nightmare.
25:01Best put your shoes on, madam,
25:02because you're not allowed on the plane.
25:03So to sum this up, right,
25:05you went to Benidorm,
25:06you thought it would be a nice,
25:07girly holiday
25:08where you'd lie in the sun
25:09and eat avocados.
25:10As it turned out...
25:11She ate the avocados.
25:12I haven't finished now.
25:13Sorry.
25:14She invited an entourage of six,
25:15wanted to party every night.
25:17Somebody allegedly took you medication
25:18for the curvature of your spine,
25:20and she says it was on ice cream.
25:22Yeah, but what could...
25:23Then you get stranded at the airport,
25:25you lost your shoes,
25:26you came home,
25:27and it's all been a disaster.
25:28Why are you here today?
25:29Well, I want a public apology from Lisa Appleton.
25:32Will you get it?
25:33Lisa Appleton's next after the break,
25:35don't you?
25:36We had a lot of fun on holiday,
25:38and you wear a handful.
25:39You wear a handful.
25:41You admit it,
25:42you are a bit of a diva.
25:44I'll never forget whatever.
25:48CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
25:54Hello, hello, everyone.
25:55Welcome back.
25:56I was talking to Lauren Harries,
25:57talking about her fallout
25:58with Lisa Appleton
25:59over several avocados
26:00and naked people
26:01and medication in Benidorm.
26:03She says you're a liar.
26:04You're a disgrace.
26:05Um...
26:06You crushed your own pills
26:08and put them on your own ice cream.
26:09I've got no idea.
26:10Lisa Appleton's
26:11on The Jeremy Kyle Show!
26:12CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
26:13CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
26:21Hi, Lauren. Hello, Lisa.
26:23Hi, love. I don't know where to start. Hi, Jeremy.
26:26We'll start at the beginning, cos I'm completely confused.
26:28How did you meet? We'd both come through a lot of depression,
26:31hard times, and we were there for each other.
26:34We didn't have many friends at the time,
26:36and we were just supporting each other through all...
26:39We wanted to go away for a girly holiday and have some fun.
26:42As soon as we got there, Lauren nearly got us arrested.
26:46What do you mean arrested?
26:48Hang on. She ordered a vegetarian meal.
26:50Oh, yeah, because the avocados had pips in them.
26:53I was sticking up.
26:54And then they said they were going to call the police.
26:56Are you having a laugh?
26:58Call the police on my salad.
27:00I've got a right to complain about my salad.
27:02She says, this avocado is hard.
27:04Was it? Well, I'm sorry.
27:06These are olives which had pips in them in a salad.
27:08You do not put pitted olives in a salad.
27:10Well, she kicked off. My father was a cook.
27:12You know, we were allowed to complain about the food.
27:14You said she's a man-eater.
27:16She was pulling on the first night,
27:18may God strike me down,
27:20everyone's husbands and boyfriends and girls were hitting her,
27:22and I had to protect her,
27:24because I was worried she was going to get...
27:25Is that true?
27:26...attacked.
27:27Oh, I don't know whether my drink was spiked.
27:29And I know the people who are in the nightclubs.
27:30You don't know what?
27:31I believe my drink was spiked on that night.
27:34She's part...
27:35You said you wanted to stay in the apartment
27:37and eat avocados.
27:38Now she says she's throwing yourself round
27:40better done with anybody that's got a pair of trousers on.
27:41I was all I was doing was dancing on the stage.
27:43And she was lifting her dress up
27:45and getting all provocative.
27:46She's like this.
27:48Ooh!
27:50Ooh!
27:51That's it, Lisa.
27:52If you carry on like that, I'm going.
27:53No, she was drunk.
27:54So, I...
27:55No, I was...
27:56This fella...
27:57Somebody's put something in my drink, Lisa.
27:58Yes, might to protect her.
28:00No, yes, but if you protected my bag,
28:02it would never have happened now.
28:03Can I ask you about the...
28:04Jeremy is a nightmare.
28:05Can I ask you...
28:06So, basically, she didn't want to stay
28:08and she was...
28:09I am allowed to have...
28:11I'm allowed to be...
28:12I'm allowed the men to come up to me.
28:14Are you jealous or something?
28:15So what happened, guys?
28:16She's on Twitter.
28:17Everyone's saying,
28:18Oh, what have you done to...
28:19What's this happened to Lauren?
28:20She's thanking me now.
28:21We had a lot of fun on holiday
28:23and you were a handful.
28:24You were a handful.
28:26You admit it.
28:27You are a bit of a diva.
28:29Listen to me, Lisa Lapperton.
28:32I've been doing this job for 30 years.
28:35So it's a job.
28:36And no one's ever called me a diva before.
28:39But you're the one who's the diva.
28:41No, you walked out...
28:42You walked out of the restaurant
28:44and you weren't paying.
28:45That is not true.
28:47And you let us all...
28:48And you told everybody that I was...
28:49They paid for everything, which is a lie.
28:51You lie.
28:52Just like that.
28:53I don't.
28:54It comes up your finger, you know.
28:55The first night the meal was paid for.
28:56My friend bought everybody the meal.
28:58One night.
28:59Then you're saying to everybody,
29:00you didn't have any food.
29:01Because I gave 50 euros for the deposit
29:03and I didn't have my cars with me.
29:04And I was waiting on the loan.
29:05Because I didn't know we'd be going out every night.
29:06I didn't know we'd be going out every night.
29:07Do you want me to be honest?
29:08Can you shut up a minute and listen to me?
29:10Well, you always say that to everybody else, so we will.
29:12Well, why would I not say it to...
29:13Why would I not say it to you, darling?
29:15I don't care what you say.
29:16Come on, tell me.
29:17What do you want to say?
29:18Yeah, tell me.
29:19I think you're both as false as each other.
29:21I think it's about time you got to a point where you actually
29:23were honest about what you truly feel.
29:25I've explained.
29:26No, you've explained that I'm a...
29:27You do all these horrible things.
29:29Yeah, I've got simply for you with you need medication,
29:32you're in pain and I have to look after you.
29:34No, you weren't sympathetic.
29:35I had to ask them to go to the doctors
29:37and no one...
29:38You were falling over.
29:39It took eight days to go.
29:40Listen, that was on the first day.
29:42You were vulnerable in the nightclub.
29:43Are the real people, the real Lauren Harris,
29:45the real Lisa Appleton, what do they want?
29:48What matters to them?
29:49You see, somewhere along the line, when you connected,
29:53and you talked very honestly, both of you, about...
29:55You talked about depression, about relationships,
29:57about the traumas and the times that you'd had,
29:59because nobody can know what it's like when you get
30:01in the public eye.
30:02It can be, yeah, to people watching it, very glamorous,
30:04but actually it can also be very, very difficult.
30:06So that connection was obviously...
30:09Was it genuine?
30:10Was it fixed?
30:11Yes, it was genuine.
30:12Is there any way that that can be revisited with our help?
30:16Yes or no?
30:17I believe so, yes.
30:18Do you believe so?
30:19Do you believe so?
30:20I'm...
30:21All I'm saying is I'll take it on board.
30:23Why don't you just apologise to each other?
30:24I'm a busy person.
30:25Well, I don't think Carlisa's going to apologise to me.
30:27OK, shall we do that thing, like, on...
30:28Can you just say sorry?
30:29After one, two, three, see what you say.
30:32One, two, three...
30:34Sorry.
30:36Right, get out of here.
30:39Graham's going to have a word with you.
30:40Graham's going to have a word with you.
30:41Give him a round of applause.
30:42Thank you very much indeed.
30:46My next guest today, Octavio, is here with former best friend and bandmate Bradley.
30:51Now he says that their friendship and even a budding romance has been left in tatters,
30:55but is it all as a result of their brief brush with fame?
30:58Now, they appeared on The X Factor a few years ago as a duo.
31:01However, two years on, and with their reality TV bubble now burst, Octavio's working in Tesco's
31:05and says his friendship with Bradley is in ruins.
31:07He's here to tell us more.
31:08Octavio's on The Jeremy Kyle Show that way.
31:10APPLAUSE
31:20How are you?
31:21I'm good, how are you?
31:22Sorry, I really want to ask you this.
31:24Do you wear that in Tesco's?
31:25No.
31:26God, no.
31:27No, they wouldn't allow it.
31:28How are you?
31:29I'm good, how are you?
31:30Do you want to do this story?
31:31Because there are a lot of people in this society now who crave fame, who crave any sort of fame,
31:40and it's quite interesting, is it not, to talk about what happens afterwards.
31:43Let's just talk about your story, because you and Bradley were inseparable.
31:48Yeah, so I've known Bradley for about five years now, and we shared some really incredible
31:55moments together, but somewhere along the line, something just went wrong.
31:59Why did you do The X Factor?
32:00I did The X Factor because I was serious about singing, I've always had a passion for music.
32:06You said that if you could do it all again, you wouldn't have auditioned.
32:09I wouldn't have auditioned as a duo, I would have waited and applied as a soloist.
32:13How far did you get?
32:14So we got to the live shows, and then sadly we were voted out, so as you can imagine, it's
32:20humiliating.
32:21That bubble, that bubble burst.
32:23Straight away?
32:24Yeah, literally.
32:25Like, one minute you're living in The X Factor house, this amazing house, and then the next
32:30minute I see it, you're back to reality, and I hit reality hard.
32:34Um, it's interesting, you did have a hard time.
32:37X Factor reject admits that he was offered cash for sex after going broke before landing
32:41a job at Tesco's.
32:43X Factor flops, Bratavio split as Bradley ditches Octavio to pursue solo.
32:49X Factor star rejected from normal jobs after chasing fame game.
32:52That's what this is about.
32:53Let's talk about you and Bradley, because that's the reason that we're here.
32:56You're in love with this guy, you were in love with this guy, you were very close, you
32:59went on this roller coaster, were you romantic together, were you intimate?
33:03Yeah, so, um, I did try, like, um, showing my affections to him, like, because there was
33:10a point where, yeah, I wanted to be with Bradley, and I feel like, I think a part of me will
33:14always belong to him.
33:15Did you ever sleep with him?
33:16Uh, I tried it, but it was just like, there was an, it just didn't work.
33:21Did, did, was the fame for you misplaced?
33:25Was it all about being in love with this guy, or was it about being with a mate and trying
33:28to achieve everything?
33:29What was the truth?
33:30I suppose doing the X Factor meant I could be with Bradley longer, and yeah, like, be
33:37with him more.
33:38The report said that after it finished, he pursued a solo career, ditched you, you found
33:42it very hard.
33:43Are you talking nowadays now?
33:45No.
33:46Is your relationship today finished?
33:48I hope not.
33:50I mean, I approached the show not to seek fame or anything like that.
33:54This is about fixing a broken down relationship.
33:56It's very important to know, because, um, obviously, like I said, five years of some incredible
34:01moments, like, really amazing memories, I can't just sweep that under the carpet.
34:05Were there any X Factor caused the breakdown in your relationship, or the fact that the
34:08two of you were very different and wanted different things from your lives?
34:10Possibly, Jeremy, because when you're in that bubble, and you're doing a reality show like
34:14The X Factor, there's a lot of pressures to conform.
34:17Do you know what I think, and I'm interested to get this guy out, and I appreciate your
34:20words.
34:21Somebody asked me once about doing this, and I'm absolutely delighted that I never went
34:24on television until I was 40, because if I hadn't lived a normal life and found out what
34:28actually matters before, I'm put in that bubble, and I absolutely get it.
34:31It's hard.
34:32Yeah, it was very hard.
34:33It's hard for anybody.
34:34And at 21, 22, 23, when you're chasing fame, you come in with a good friend of yours, that
34:38friendship maybe meant more to one than the other, I don't know, but the downside is afterwards,
34:43and it's difficult.
34:44So this is the first time you've seen Bradley since when?
34:46Um, since I said I don't want to be part of Batavia anymore.
34:50Let's get Bradley on the Jeremy Kyle show, that one.
34:52What was the nicest look you gave him?
35:05Well, a few things he's been saying just then was a bit varied story.
35:11It wasn't really the truth.
35:12Talk to each other.
35:14You said about splitting from me, but it's the way in which you did it is what really hurt
35:19me, obviously, you said we're doing a song together, and you said to wait till you finish
35:24your master's degree, and I said, yeah, that's fine, I'll wait till you've finished.
35:28And when you finish your master's degree, you blocked me on everything, already had your
35:32solo song planned, and it was like you tried to get ahead and made me wait, saying we're
35:37doing one together.
35:38You told my team he's always been jealous of me, I've always been more popular, and he
35:41can't stand it.
35:42That's what you said, didn't you?
35:43Yeah, in a way, but I mean, I don't mean that in a big-headed way.
35:46I mean, I felt bitterness all the time.
35:50You're saying that he dumped you, he went to do his single thing and left you high and
35:53dry.
35:54You said the same about him, why don't you talk about it instead of just look at each
35:56other?
35:57Yeah, I think, Bradley, and I've told you this in the past as well, I'm a very complicated
36:01person, I will admit it, like, yeah, and there have been times where I have been jealous
36:05of you, which I've told you, and very sensitive.
36:08All I can say, Bradley...
36:09And you left me in Hollywood as well, on my own?
36:11I left you, Bradley, in Hollywood, if you want to speak about that, I left you in Hollywood
36:15because you left me...
36:16No, no, no, no, no.
36:17You left me and a friend, you got drunk, you started dancing on tables, you were out of
36:21control, I even attempted to come to you and say, Bradley, I'm going home but now back
36:24to the hotel, and nothing.
36:25I don't recall that, but...
36:26Well, I do.
36:27So where do we go from here, peeps?
36:31What do you want from this?
36:32I'm here today to try and get a resolution.
36:33I don't know, I'm not really happy, actually, because I feel like he's come out here playing
36:37victim and...
36:38I don't think he's played victim, I think he's been...
36:40I think if you ask that audience, he's far more genuine than you've appeared today.
36:43I'll be...
36:44I'll be...
36:45I'll be...
36:46I'll be...
36:47I'll be...
36:48I'll be...
36:49I'll pull...
36:50I'll pull...
36:51Look, I'll put...
36:52I'll say everything...
36:53He wouldn't be angry because he wasn't the one that got blocked, he wasn't the one that
36:55he pitched to back.
36:56I don't really understand about that.
36:57What I'm talking about is you've got a front which you've still got on, you're not actually
37:00being...
37:01I didn't do anything bad to him, so why would he be angry?
37:03I think he's in love...
37:04I think he's complicated, but I buy his...
37:06Genuine today, you're not...
37:08So I'm going to be angry, obviously.
37:10It's just really sad that in a society that we live in where it becomes so important,
37:15apparently, to be famous, that you two could go into something like that, as mates,
37:18as lovers, whatever, not my business, and come out of it and loggerheads, because that's
37:23a shame, that's a warning to all sorts of people, and so the offer here is to try and
37:27put it right by, don't take it the wrong way, not sitting there being fake, being honest
37:31and saying, I don't want to see you again because there's too much water under the bridge,
37:34or, oh my God, I miss you, or, I wish I hadn't done that.
37:37That's the point, right?
37:38So it's conflict resolution, that's the point of being there.
37:40But there was a point...
37:41I think it's difficult for him, though, and I'm going to say this in his defence, because
37:44you are in love with him, absolutely patently.
37:46Yeah.
37:47And the first thing out of his mouth was, it's never been like that for me.
37:50So how do you keep a friendship going with somebody under the label of friendship, when they
37:54want more?
37:55Maybe that's the reason why he pulls back, I don't know.
37:57Would that be fair?
37:58Yeah, I just wanted a friend.
37:59Well, then say that.
38:00I like you better as a friend, obviously.
38:02Yeah.
38:05Listen, I think it's really important, Bradley, that we do this story.
38:11We live in a world that's obsessed with fame, and you two today on this show, this isn't
38:17me being horrible, this is me being honest.
38:19God knows how I ended up here, but it's all well and good to look at the winners of X Factor
38:22with their million-pound contract, but what about the people who have had the taste of
38:25that, and it's ripped away?
38:27And adjusting back to normality is difficult.
38:31And I guess when you try and adjust back to normality, you need your mate.
38:35And if your best mate's the person you've gone into it with, and you're now at loggerheads,
38:40to me that just seems a shame, do you know what I mean?
38:43Do you think you can be friends with him without wanting more, Octavia?
38:47Do you think?
38:48I think so, because, like, I feel like I've, like, I've passed that now.
38:53There was a time where, yeah, I was infatuated with him, I'll be honest.
38:55I did love him.
38:57Did you ever tell him that?
38:58Yeah, many times.
38:59Did he?
39:01Erm, and to be fair, you did, you did always say, oh, look, we're, I don't feel the same
39:06way and all that, but then...
39:07So you were honest, that's good.
39:08So maybe I was, I'm a stubborn person, I just kept trying, you know.
39:11Sometimes you try and try and maybe you get what you want, but...
39:14Would it not be fair to say that after what you shared and after what you went through,
39:18that the readjustment to, I hate the word normal, but you know what I'm saying,
39:22wouldn't it be worth trying to work together so that, with us,
39:25so that you can actually support each other rather than ignore each other
39:28or fight each other or slag each other off?
39:31Don't you think that the one person in the world that you both know,
39:34who's been through it and experienced it with you, is each other?
39:38Do you not think that actually you could, if you can get rid of that barrier of
39:42romance or whatever, rejection?
39:44That's what I mean.
39:45Don't you think you're both best placed for each other to help each other
39:47get through this?
39:48Yeah.
39:49Good point.
39:50That's what I'm trying to get to.
39:52Do you understand?
39:53Yeah.
39:54I really, and I mean this, I've always been really honest,
39:57and I'm sure certain people are like this, I read this this morning,
39:59I thought, oh, my God, and then I started thinking about,
40:02as I keep saying, the world that we live in.
40:05Very rarely do you win X Factor.
40:08What does happen on all of these sorts of shows?
40:11It's like being a celebrity.
40:13Somebody once said to me, um, you're quite cool with it.
40:16I said, it's not my oxygen.
40:17I've got four kids.
40:19But there are plenty of people in the public eye,
40:21and it is their oxygen.
40:22And when that oxygen is taken away,
40:24when the TV show, the record deal, whatever finishes,
40:27what do they do?
40:28And it's really...
40:29That's the point of doing the story.
40:31So let us try and help you both as friends.
40:34I know Graham wants to spend a bit of time.
40:36Is that all right?
40:37And I really mean this.
40:38I really appreciate you coming on,
40:40because for me it was very interesting.
40:41I ask you both to go that way.
40:42Is that all right?
40:43Thank you very much indeed.
40:44Go that way.
40:45This is, by anybody's standards, a heck of a story.
40:51Because in January you woke up in the morning
40:54to discover hundreds of messages.
40:56Now, I'm not very good at a social media thing,
40:58but there had been reported your death.
41:01Your death?
41:02Yes.
41:11Are you being trolled online?
41:14Perhaps you're being accused of something that you haven't done.
41:16Maybe you're a victim of revenge porn.
41:18If you're 16 or over and you'd like to be considered for the show,
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41:29Or you can call my team today.
41:30It's 09011.
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41:33Course cost 25 pence plus network access charge.
41:36APPLAUSE
41:46Welcome back.
41:47Right, my next guest was thrown into the public spotlight
41:49when taking part in reality TV show Big Brother in 2009.
41:53This male ex-housemate went on to grab the media's attention years later
41:56when it was revealed he was transgender and now living as a woman.
41:59And what followed nobody would ever have predicted.
42:01A media frenzy started when this reality TV star
42:04was accused of faking their own death on Twitter
42:06in order to gain fame.
42:07Here to tell us more and set the record straight,
42:10let's get Rebecca on the Jeremy Kyle Show that way.
42:13APPLAUSE
42:15This is, by anybody's standards, a heck of a story.
42:28Let's start with Big Brother in 2009.
42:33You entered the house as Rodrigo.
42:35You described it as an unforgettable experience.
42:39What was it like?
42:40It was just fun. I just remember it was fun.
42:42You said that at the time of going into the Big Brother house
42:45and after, you thought you were gay,
42:47but you found yourself attracted to straight men
42:50and then you started talking to transgender people
42:53and the light sort of...
42:54Yes.
42:55Tell us about that.
42:56Because once you find yourself in a male body
42:59and finding someone of the same gender,
43:01the first thing you think is like,
43:03wow, I'm gay.
43:04And once you start living in the gay world,
43:07you realise that maybe you don't see yourself in that world.
43:11So it's like...
43:12I think it's step by step,
43:14especially because in my times we didn't have all this.
43:17When I was a child we didn't have programmes to talk about this,
43:20so I think it's really important to talk
43:22because I didn't know what I was.
43:24I thought I was gay.
43:25I thought I was just...
43:26I thought I had a default
43:29because how can I be gay and like straight men
43:33and see myself as a woman?
43:35Am I crazy?
43:36Probably.
43:37No, no, no.
43:38But to be fair to you,
43:40if you grow up wherever you come from,
43:42Brazil, anywhere,
43:44if you know that you're caught in the wrong body,
43:46that must be an incredibly difficult thing to do.
43:49What I admire about your story enormously,
43:51and I was reading it in detail this morning,
43:53here you are in Great Britain,
43:56you've done Big Brother,
43:58you've had this fame,
43:59then it started to diminish,
44:01I'm being totally honest.
44:03You then decided to transition
44:05four years later,
44:07July 2013.
44:08How brave is that?
44:10To do that in a country,
44:11you lost family,
44:12you lost friends,
44:13you were ostracized by a lot of people,
44:15pushed out,
44:16but you did it anyway.
44:17How difficult was that?
44:18Talk us through that.
44:19I think it was the most psychological pain
44:25that someone could ever feel
44:28because I've been through 16 surgeries,
44:31but that's not just...
44:33To be honest with you,
44:34when I had the main surgery,
44:35I spent the whole month in hospital by myself
44:37and it was just sad, you know?
44:41It was just to know that I was doing something
44:44that I had a very uncertain future,
44:47you know,
44:48because I had lots of dreams as Rodrigo,
44:51I had so many dreams,
44:53you know,
44:54and suddenly I had to start my new life
44:58as my new self and...
45:02Are you glad that you had it?
45:04Well,
45:05I just want people to know that it's fun,
45:08yes, it's good,
45:09I feel good now,
45:10but what you see here,
45:12like people say that I look good,
45:14it's their opinion,
45:15but like,
45:16what I see,
45:17what people see is just a mask,
45:20you know,
45:21it's just something that I get dressed
45:22and I show that I'm confident
45:24and I have like,
45:25body and things,
45:26but...
45:27inside,
45:28I feel a bit like,
45:29inside,
45:30I'm a weak,
45:31like,
45:32I'm quite vulnerable person inside
45:33and emotional,
45:35so,
45:37I've done,
45:38I left so many dreams behind,
45:40special,
45:41professional dreams,
45:42to,
45:43maybe to,
45:44achieve the dream,
45:46of having a family one day,
45:48so,
45:49because I always wanted to be a mother,
45:51and,
45:52I know I can't get pregnant,
45:54so I'm not going to be coming here for DNA.
45:57Brilliant,
45:58I love that.
46:00Um,
46:01let's talk about fame,
46:02because,
46:03in January,
46:04you woke up in the morning,
46:05to discover,
46:06I believe,
46:07hundreds of messages,
46:08now,
46:09I'm not very good at,
46:10um,
46:11the old social media thing,
46:12but there had been,
46:13reported,
46:14your death.
46:15Yes.
46:16We're sorry to inform you,
46:18everyone,
46:19that our wonderful,
46:20lovely Rebecca died unexpectedly,
46:21on Wednesday night,
46:22we ask that you respect the family's privacy at this time.
46:24That's not great to wake up to, is it?
46:26No, I didn't wake up to this,
46:27I woke up to many messages on my phone,
46:29of people,
46:31saying that I was an angel,
46:34and,
46:35saying,
46:36rest in peace,
46:37because now your problems have,
46:39finished,
46:40and things like that,
46:41and for a second I thought,
46:42am I dead?
46:43You know,
46:44and,
46:45and,
46:46it's funny now,
46:47but like,
46:48it's not good emotionally,
46:49it's very damaging,
46:50emotionally.
46:51How many did you have to deal with that?
46:53That's,
46:54obviously,
46:55somebody who's hacked that,
46:56and they have an incentive,
46:57and that's terrible.
46:58You were then accused by people,
46:59of organizing this yourself,
47:00as a publicity stunt,
47:01because,
47:02of an,
47:03you know,
47:04insatiable quest for fame.
47:05How difficult was that?
47:06Well,
47:07I don't want to,
47:08to be arrogant,
47:09or anything like that,
47:10because I'm not,
47:11but,
47:12who are the people,
47:13who said,
47:15that I was,
47:16faking,
47:18the news,
47:19about my death.
47:21You know who?
47:22A couple of losers.
47:24But you know where they are now?
47:26I don't either.
47:27Um,
47:28people who troll,
47:29people that do that,
47:30people who hack,
47:31no time for.
47:32You've been through
47:33an incredible amount,
47:34an incredible journey.
47:35Um,
47:36you're very intelligent.
47:37You went through
47:38a massive,
47:39massive life change,
47:41on your own.
47:42You're proud enough,
47:43to stand up and go,
47:44that's who I am,
47:45that's who I want to be.
47:47That's brave,
47:48that is.
47:49Um,
47:50and...
47:51No, but it is.
47:52And,
47:53and to set the record straight,
47:55you didn't fate your own death,
47:56it was another sad muppet,
47:57somewhere in a,
47:58I don't know where,
47:59that's jealous,
48:00or whatever.
48:01And,
48:02and I really respect you.
48:03Glad you came?
48:04I was very scared to meet you.
48:05Why?
48:06Because someone said to me,
48:07you were gonna eat me alive.
48:09LAUGHTER
48:12But I actually,
48:13I thought,
48:14I also thought I wouldn't like you.
48:15But...
48:16You might get people...
48:17I really like you.
48:18LAUGHTER
48:19I really, really respect you.
48:20Thank you very much indeed.
48:21Thank you very much indeed.
48:22Are you all right?
48:23Thank you very much indeed.
48:26Fascinating.
48:27Fascinating.
48:28What happens when fame goes?
48:29I'm out of time for today.
48:31If you want to be here,
48:32you need my help,
48:33visit our website.
48:34The details are on the screen
48:35to my guest to this audience
48:36and to you at home.
48:37Thank you for watching,
48:38I'll see you very soon.
48:39Take care, bye-bye for now.
48:40APPLAUSE