Vivian Hoffman, longtime retail merchandizer and founder of Whim, a boutique retail company, spoke to ForbesWomen editor Maggie McGrath about the whiplash tariff policies and what it means for her business.
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NewsTranscript
00:01Hi, everyone. I'm Maggie McGrath, editor of Forbes Women. One week after President Trump
00:07announced sweeping global tariffs, he announced a 90-day pause on most countries except China.
00:14It's throwing a lot of people in retail into a moment of deep uncertainty. Joining us now
00:21is someone with a lot of merchandising experience in the retail space. She is Vivian Hoffman.
00:27She is now a founder of her own boutique retail company, but she used to work at Century 21.
00:34Vivian, thank you so much for joining us.
00:37Thank you for having me.
00:38So when we first started emailing, the tariff implementation plan looked one way,
00:45and over the course of one day, it has kind of changed. What's your perspective on where we
00:51stand right now, just mere hours after President Trump announced a 90-day pause in most of these
00:57tariffs?
00:59You know, it has not changed that much as far as my business is concerned, because the largest
01:06percent of my merchandise comes from vendors that import from China. So nothing changed for China.
01:15The tariffs even got worse for China. So I guess that it helps the small percent of my vendors
01:24that make things in other countries in Vietnam, Mexico, and Canada, which would be the other
01:30countries, and Peru. It's another country my vendors manufacture in.
01:36But what percent of your business is tied to Chinese manufacturing versus those other countries
01:42that you just mentioned?
01:43I would say of my imports, probably 90, 95 percent. A great percent.
01:50So this 90-day pause doesn't really help you. Can we zoom out a little bit and just can you help
01:54our audience understand what your company does and the products that you're putting forth in the
01:58world?
01:58Absolutely. So WIM, I started the business because I saw a need for good quality, comfortable,
02:10fashionable clothing, jewelry, shoes, whatever, for women at really reasonable prices. And that is what
02:19I founded WIM for. And we've been in business for, we opened our first store eight years ago.
02:27We now have five brick and mortars and we have a website and an Instagram store. And we have tried
02:36to stay true to our mission, which is to deliver great clothes at great prices. So the tariffs make that
02:46mission very challenging for me.
02:50And probably even more so after today, we saw in his post on Truth Social, President Trump saying
02:56that he was raising the tariff charge to China by the U.S. to 125 percent. Have you crunched the
03:05numbers on what this means for your revenue and for your operating abilities?
03:12To be honest, I haven't because it's been evolving so much and changing every day that I'm really not
03:20sure what the true numbers are going to be and how it's going to affect my business. What I am sure of
03:25is that it is going to affect my business. But it's been hard to crunch the numbers because I don't
03:34know exactly when my vendors are going to start increasing my prices. And I also don't know in
03:41the interim if things are going to change again, if things are going to backstep or what's going to
03:48happen. So it sort of seems like a wasted exercise to start crunching the numbers at this point.
03:55Interesting. So the ground is shifting beneath your feet. Are you talking to vendors or other
04:00entrepreneurs in your space? Like what's the sentiment right now?
04:03Yeah, I think the sentiment is that everybody is confused and doesn't know what you expect and a lot
04:13of fear. Everybody does think that it's going to affect business and affect prices, but I don't
04:21think they know exactly how. I have started getting price increases the last week. I placed a reorder
04:30on shoes. And usually once you buy something and you pay one price, when you reorder it, it's the same
04:37price. And the shoes this time were increased 20%. And I was told it was because of the tariffs. Now,
04:45to me, the shoes are landed already. And that's not really fair. But I think that they're sort of
04:52trying to front load and, you know, get ahead of what their increases are going to be. And my only
05:00choice was to either, you know, pay the higher price or not buy the merchandise. And since it
05:06was a reorder, which meant I sell it, sold it, well, I did take it in. And then I, and so then
05:13you're taking a loss on that, right? Because that means you had customer demand for those shoes. And
05:17then you had to get them at 20% more than what you were originally going to get them.
05:21Exactly. I'm taking a loss on it. But, you know, I want to keep the same price from my customers.
05:29In my years in business, I've never taken the same item and had an increase in that item to my
05:35customers in the same season. Perhaps if I carry the same item a year later, another, you know,
05:43in that case, and I'm charged more, I might, but never in season like this.
05:48Never in season like this. There's two follow-up questions I want to ask to that. But the first
05:53is about passing costs onto customers. I've been reading accounts from small business owners,
05:59talking to entrepreneurs. There are some who have the perspective, we're going to do what we can to
06:04not pass the cost onto consumers. Others say, I have no choice but to pass this cost on. Where do you
06:11land on that spectrum? For the time being, I'm going to try to absorb as much as the costs as I can.
06:20I feel like it's a very competitive landscape out there. And our success or part of our success
06:27has been that our prices are so fair. And I really want to hold to those prices as much as I can. I mean,
06:36if it gets to the point that I can't, then I'm not going to be able to. But at the moment I am,
06:43I don't feel like anything is concrete yet as far as the tariffs and, you know, what's happening.
06:49And some of my vendors who do produce in China have been looking other places to produce,
06:55but I don't know how fast I'm going to see that merchandise.
07:00Well, this leads me to my second follow-up question, which you referenced your experience
07:03in business and you were a merchandiser for Century 21. In your years in that role,
07:09was there ever a tariff scenario quite like the one that we are looking at right now?
07:14Not that I can remember. No, never.
07:17Is there any comparable experience from that time in business that you're drawing on
07:22in order to guide Wim, your current company now?
07:25Yes. Well, from my experience at Century 21, I was there during 9-11, during that period.
07:33And it was pretty tough to maneuver then. You know, one of our stores was totally gone during 9-11
07:42closed, you know, in Ground Zero. So it was a lot of maneuvering, getting out of merchandise,
07:49trying to cancel stuff that was coming, trying to negotiate better prices and stuff.
07:55That we were buying for the future. So it was very challenging. And I think that did,
08:00you know, help prepare me for this. There was a second situation, not at the Century 21, but
08:07I had opened my third Wim boutique two weeks before we got closed down for COVID.
08:15So here I was, you know, in the middle of grand opening, new staff. I had three stores, employees,
08:25a small office warehouse staff, and I had no clue really how to maneuver. And, you know,
08:32I learned like everyone else and I got through it. But I feel like having those two experiences
08:37makes this a little less frightening for me and a little, you know, sort of comparable kind of thing.
08:48Or maybe not comparable to 9-11, but comparable that you have to be nimble and you have to sort
08:54of wait and see. And...
08:56Well, one of the things I was curious to ask you is I don't want to make light of this situation,
09:03just that 20% increase in what you paid for that reorder of shoes. That's a lot of money
09:08right there to say nothing of the overall cost to your business that could shake out at the end of
09:12this. But in a moment like this, do you see opportunity for yourself to either evolve the
09:18business model or do things a little bit differently? Or as you said, be nimble. And in that could
09:23different business lines open up. I don't know. I'm curious about how you're looking at this
09:27moment from an entrepreneurial lens. I think there could be some opportunity. I think it is wait and
09:36see and be nimble. You know, there may be vendors that are afraid and want to get rid of a lot of
09:45merchandise. So that can be an opportunity. At the same time, we don't really know what the future
09:54is going to be. You know, sitting here today, I really can't tell you what I think. I mean,
10:00I don't wish anybody bad business, but I think there's a lot of bad business out there. So from
10:06that standpoint, there could be opportunities. There could be empty stores. It could be great deals on
10:12stores. It could be a lot of opportunity. But it's not something I'm thinking about right now. I'm
10:19really thinking about how we're going to get through this and what business is going to be like.
10:26As you think about different ways to navigate through this, I think as Forbes woman editor,
10:30a lot about some of the statistics that are somewhat stacked against female founders.
10:35Usually female founders need to operate with less capital, less funding, be a little more
10:39capital efficient. There is the application for credit. Do you feel like this moment is perhaps
10:46a little trickier for you as you navigate not just a hard economic moment, but some of the systemic
10:51biases that can make it harder to operate as a female founder?
10:57So to be perfectly honest, I have not found that. But I would say the women's clothing segment in
11:07particular, there are a lot of women founders. So maybe it's a little bit more unique to the retail
11:16as a whole. I feel it's very women driven. So I'm not feeling those biases. I would like to say I'm
11:29feeling the opposite, but I'm not really feeling either way. I don't think it's that pertinent right
11:33this minute, for me anyway. No, it's a fair response. I think one of the things that we've
11:39been trying to figure out in talking to sources, you know, we see the way that women writ large are
11:45underemployed, make a little bit less than men still, according to Equal Pay Day. So in a moment
11:51like this, are women disproportionately impacted, I think is a question that I am openly exploring.
11:57But if you don't feel it, that's, I think, one fewer hurdle that you are facing at this moment,
12:02when there are certainly plenty of hurdles that you are looking at.
12:04Right. So I think personally, as far as like funding and cash flow, I'm not feeling it that way.
12:10But do I feel it in general and friends in other positions or industries? Yes, I do. I absolutely do.
12:20Is this moment an existential threat to your business? Or do you see a way through no matter what?
12:26I would only want to imagine I see a way through. So I hope no different, but who knows? I hope
12:35that there is a way through. You know, I feel I'm blessed that I have very loyal customers
12:41and my stores are in affluent communities. I'm not that concerned. You know, I think it's a
12:56as far as the products I sell, I feel like if you have unique products and good products and products
13:03that are good value and products that people want, you're going to sell them.
13:09And then the prices are going to go up, my margins are going to go down. And you know,
13:14a lot of scenarios like that, my foot traffic might go down, but I think I'm still going to sell
13:19product. Women customers like buying things that make them feel good. And that is our business,
13:26trying to make women feel good. Now, Vivian, you had said that you had not crunched the numbers yet
13:32because the situation is evolving in some cases by the minute. The ground is shifting beneath all of
13:38our feet. But what are the questions that you will be asking in the coming days and weeks in order to
13:44assess and future proof your business? Well, I am going to try to get as many prices as I can
13:51from vendors and ask vendors if they think there's going to be increases. I had my first situation
13:57yesterday. I went to a trade show a month ago in Las Vegas and I took notes. Often I write orders at
14:05shows. In this case, I took notes. It was a big gene vendor. And I now want to review my notes and write
14:12my full order. So I asked for line sheets. And I was told they couldn't send the line sheets
14:18because they now don't have concrete prices. But they did have prices at the show when I was there
14:25in February. And because it's somebody I have a relationship with and I knew they would ship me
14:30even if my order was a little late. It wasn't a priority at the time. So I was like shocked. You
14:37don't have line sheets. You don't have prices. And they said they're waiting to see what happens with
14:42the tariffs. And that was a wake-up call. I've talked to labor economists about how the labor
14:48market is a little bit frozen right now because employers are trying to figure out what to do and
14:54how to operate in a moment of uncertainty. That anecdote that you just shared indicates to me that
14:59there's a similar, perhaps, frozen element to merchandising and supply chains. Would you agree?
15:06I do agree. I do agree. You know, this is a little off that line. But one of the things I did when you
15:15asked about number crunching, I wasn't quite crunching the numbers because I didn't know what
15:20numbers to crunch. But what I am doing is trying to stay more liquid than I usually do.
15:26Going to the trade shows, I did not write as much as I usually write. And I had a thought. I thought
15:34that was the thing to do. Stay liquid. Be nimble. But then last week, I was like, oh my God, am I
15:41making a mistake? Maybe I should front load merchandise that I don't think is too fashionable
15:47or too seasonal that will be something I'm buying going forward and front loaded because maybe if I
15:54buy it now, I'll have sharper prices and the prices will go up later. So it's sort of two extremes
16:01what I'm thinking. And I've been trying to read everything every other retailer is saying to see how
16:07other people are handling it. And honestly, I haven't made a decision. I'm trying to figure it out.
16:16I think it's the way a lot of consumers feel. I've been in conversations with friends who need new
16:21iPhones and they can't decide, do I get this now or do I wait and see? Do I take the gamble and
16:27potentially pay more money later? I don't know that anyone has a clear answer. What's your guidance
16:34to other entrepreneurs or maybe even consumers? Because uncertainty, I think, is one of the emotions
16:39that's hardest to sit with. Yeah, I think uncertainty is the worst. It really is what everyone's feeling.
16:48As far as other entrepreneurs and businesses, my feeling always is try to stay as nimble as you can.
16:57I mean, any kind of deal or order or whatever you do, if you can sort of leave a few things open-ended
17:07that if you have to pivot, you have that opportunity. I mean, I don't know if everybody does that or can
17:14do that. I've been in this business a very long time. I have over 50 years with some of my vendors
17:19and I think they know my word is my word. So if I need to pivot a little, I can do it. So I think if
17:29you can leave yourself a little room, that's the way to go. But again, being nimble on everything,
17:37I'm not deciding on any, let's say I'm going to do some kind of promotion for Mother's Day or whatever it
17:43is. I probably would have decided by now everything I'm doing and I'm waiting. I'm waiting on everything
17:50and I'm being nimble. I'm just trying to, it's sort of a day by day. In the past, it wasn't like
17:58that. We had a long calendar. Right. And I'm not feeling that right now and I'm making very late
18:05decisions, but I think by doing that, they're safer.
18:12So that's what I'm doing. And that would be my advice. As far as consumer advice, it's hard for me to,
18:19my consumer advice is come shop at Wim. We got great prices and great merchandise or come to my website,
18:26Wim Love. And we have a great return policy, which is one of the reasons we have a very successful
18:33business. You know, we're, we're very lenient and we're, we care about customer service. So,
18:41but other advice to customers, I, you know, I'm just like them. I don't know. I don't think any of us
18:48know. I think that's true. Uncertainty is the only word that we were all saying these days. The only
18:57thing that's known, ironically. Well, Vivian Hoffman, founder of women's boutique chain, Wim. Thank you
19:02so much for sitting down with Forbes on a busy news day as the ground is shifting beneath our feet.
19:09We really appreciate your time and your insight. And thank you so much for having me.