In this edition of our weekly talk show, participants discuss the EU's attempts to reach strategic autonomy, the impact of Trump's tariffs on the global economy and the debate about how many seats the European Parliament should have.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Brussels My Love, our weekly talk show that dives into the highs
00:17and lows of EU politics.
00:19Today from the European Parliament in Strasbourg, I'm Stefan Grobe, thanks for tuning in.
00:26Coming up this week, energy bars, water and medicine.
00:30The European Commission wants European citizens to have a 72-hour survival kit at home.
00:35Why?
00:36To boost their preparedness against potential crises like natural disasters, industrial
00:42accidents or cyber and military attacks.
00:45But that's only on an individual level.
00:48Politically, Europe is also taking steps to be more independent and gearing up on all
00:53fronts.
00:54Is it working?
00:56And the economic squeeze is real and it's getting tighter.
01:01Citizens all over Europe are feeling the strain on household budgets.
01:05Consequently, consumer sentiment is down to the lowest level in years.
01:10As inflation chips away at purchasing power, the prospect of a full-blown trade war is
01:15making things worse.
01:17The ECB warns that Donald Trump's actions could trigger a global recession with severe
01:23consequences.
01:24Are we prepared for this one?
01:28That's the question for our guests today, all members of the European Parliament.
01:32And here they are.
01:33From Croatia, Jelena Zovko with the European People's Party.
01:38From France, Zandro Godzi with Renew Europe.
01:41And from Sweden, Evin Insier with the Social Democrats.
01:46Welcome to all of you and thanks for joining us.
01:50But before we get started, let's take a look at how the debate about European independence
01:55is shaping up.
02:01Friedrich Merz, Germany's next chancellor, said it bluntly on the very evening of his
02:06election victory in February.
02:10His absolute priority will be to strengthen Europe as quickly as possible to really achieve
02:15independence from the U.S.
02:22The openly hostile attitude of the Trump administration has abruptly accelerated the discussions on
02:27strategic autonomy advocated since 2017 by French President Emmanuel Macron.
02:35No wonder that Merz and Macron are already best friends.
02:43From chip production to critical medicines, from securing supply chains to ramping up
02:48the military, Europe wants to stand on its own feet in the face of Russian aggression,
02:54Chinese assertiveness and American protectionism.
03:00The continent sees itself as a lone torchbearer of liberal democracy, a survivor of sorts.
03:06And Brussels already asked its citizens to have a survival kit ready for crises that
03:11may or may not come.
03:17When you heard about this survival kit, Juliana, what were you thinking?
03:21Do you think it's appropriate or is it kind of ridiculous?
03:26I think it's very appropriate to put in the European citizens' minds that they should
03:33be prepared and that they're not shielded by anyone.
03:39So after the crisis that we had with COVID, I was also the reporter for the EU rescue
03:46mechanism that was used at that time to provide medicines when we had a big health crisis.
03:57I think that we had to learn from that episode the menace that is going on and raging around
04:04our borders is leaving us exposed.
04:07At that time, I remember the journalists were ridiculing our efforts to put into the
04:15attention of the people that we should be prepared for big health crisis, even for the
04:21nuclear war.
04:22And in order to have that, to have also the funds at the European level, you know, and
04:29to have a prepared equipment.
04:32But only when the COVID came, this happened.
04:35So I think it's quite realistic and it's good that we are doing this communication
04:39strategy.
04:40I mean, what is the view from Sweden here?
04:43Is it practical?
04:44Is it helpful to have sort of one pouch for all kinds of possible threats like war, like
04:51a cyber attack, like a pandemic, et cetera?
04:55I mean, first and foremost, I would agree on that it is appropriate to ensure that all
05:00our citizens are equipped in case something would happen.
05:04Nevertheless, I also think that the state, the government has a responsibility to ensure
05:08that the health care system is prepared, that the infrastructure is prepared.
05:15So yes, individuals have a responsibility, but the government has even bigger responsibility
05:19to ensure that the whole society is prepared.
05:23Sandro?
05:24Well, I mean, it was a very good signal because the issue is to raise awareness of ordinary
05:30citizens.
05:31I mean, it is clear that we are in a period where we are much more exposed to extraordinary
05:37events, be it floods, be it cyber security attacks, et cetera.
05:41So I mean, to send out this video and to try to spread around the continent a culture of
05:47prevention and preparedness like we have in Germany, like we have in Switzerland, like
05:52we have in the United States.
05:53I mean, this kind of survival kit, I mean, being prepared, it is already existing as
05:59a communication and information campaign and awareness campaign in some European state
06:04and across the ocean.
06:05I think it was a very good message because the message was, of course, the union must
06:10do its part, the member state, the government must do its part, but each of us can contribute
06:15to a collective prevention and response action and each of us should be much more aware because
06:21we are all exposed, unfortunately.
06:22Yeah, yeah.
06:23Well, I'm going to be devil's advocate here for a second, Giuliano.
06:28Could that survival kit instill a sense of drama which might be contrary to a message
06:34of, you know, kind of relaxation and, you know, common sense, don't worry, something
06:42like this?
06:43I think it would be fooling people to say don't worry.
06:48If our citizens are not aware of the dangerous world we are living in nowadays, then we are
06:55not doing it right.
06:57We are investing heavily into defense, we are investing heavily in our critical medicine,
07:04we are talking about all the attacks that are being done on our critical as well as
07:12strategic infrastructure.
07:15So citizens are the part of the system, of the society.
07:18Of course, the state institutions should provide and should vote for the budget to have all
07:26this material available, but the training for the civil protection unit, it's on a voluntary
07:32basis as well.
07:34Communication should be there, but also citizens should take their responsibility to get engaged
07:40and to prepare themselves.
07:43One man was there, a man you all know, Viktor Orban, right, the prime minister of Hungary,
07:49who has criticized the survival kit as part of an EU war strategy.
07:55What do you make of this?
07:56Well, it's very evident that Orban is a puppet of Putin and has several times gone Putin's
08:05errands.
08:07And of course, nobody in the European Union is encouraging to war.
08:12What we are encouraging is to respect international law and respect the sovereignty and territorial
08:18integrity of Ukraine and other European countries.
08:23But when we are in this serious situation where Russia is composing, is constituting
08:29a threat, we also need to be realistic to prepare, even though, of course, that shouldn't
08:35happen.
08:36Preparedness is one thing, but then expecting the war is another thing.
08:40So preparedness, I think, is quite important, but it also should apply to the member states,
08:45the governments.
08:46Once again, also, I want to emphasize the importance of the government's understanding
08:50that we cannot cut down on the social welfare system, cut down on supporting the health
08:56care system, on infrastructure, and at the same time demand from everyday people to make
09:03themselves prepared.
09:04We need to have a whole system that is prepared.
09:08So the preparedness should also include a well-functioning welfare system.
09:15Sander, before I give the floor to you, we wanted to hear directly from the public, and
09:21we've asked people in the streets of Brussels what they thought about this individual preparedness.
09:27Here's what they told us.
09:28Take a listen.
09:29We are living with fear when we see what's happening in the world.
09:32So me, I have my backpack.
09:35We don't know what can happen.
09:37I have more important things on my mind.
09:39Three children.
09:40A job.
09:41Your job.
09:42Cats, dogs.
09:43Cats, dogs.
09:44At the moment, I don't think it's my priority.
09:48I wasn't really thinking about it.
09:50And actually, I think, like, the war is still far away from us, so I don't feel afraid.
09:56The idea of, like, war happening is definitely going to cause, like, shortages or something.
10:05So definitely, like, prepare.
10:07I don't think we can be prepared for emergencies like war or something.
10:13And even if we have a rucksack or something, it will not save us.
10:17All right, Sandra, you've heard it.
10:18We can't be prepared for emergencies.
10:20Even if we have a rucksack, it will not save us.
10:23Is that just being realistic or overly fatalistic?
10:26This is exactly what I was meaning.
10:30I mean, it is clear that we need, really, an education to external events.
10:36Because, I mean, the reaction of, and I understand, the reaction of the United States is like,
10:41we are talking about a nuclear war.
10:43We are not talking a nuclear war.
10:46But we are talking about the fact that because of climate change, because of digital issues,
10:53because of cybersecurity, we can be all exposed to events which are less and less extraordinary
11:00because they repeat themselves.
11:02How many times we have seen cities totally devastated by floods?
11:08And how many times we have seen that if we had installed a culture of preparedness before,
11:14maybe we could have saved lives.
11:15So, I mean, this is exactly what we have to do, because, I mean, first of all, it's not
11:19only a question of war.
11:21Second, the human being tends to think, well, it won't happen to me.
11:28It won't happen in my town.
11:29It won't happen in my region.
11:31And in fact, we see that more and more it is happening.
11:35Of course, I mean, this is only part.
11:37This is the point of the iceberg.
11:38It is clear that, I mean, for example, in infrastructure, on the management of rivers,
11:44the government, the region, the town hall must do much more and much better.
11:48We have seen also that because there wasn't a good management of the side of the rivers,
11:55there have been dramatic, dramatic flows.
11:58So, I mean, we really have to enter into a new culture that depends on government election,
12:04publication, but also on each of us.
12:06OK.
12:07Let's leave the kit behind and talk about the strategic autonomy that leaders are advocating.
12:11Felice Mertz and Emmanuel Macron were our examples in the video.
12:16First, is their diagnosis correct?
12:20And what should be done first now?
12:22The diagnosis is correct that the European Union needs to invest more into our strategic
12:28autonomy, if you say.
12:33What about the sort of the fields, the defence, the defence, the food, food supplies and medical
12:42supplies?
12:43OK.
12:44And this is exactly what it is being done.
12:45The council has gone and has the same approach and agreement on these issues.
12:52And we can see that in Croatia, we are heavily now investing into defence and also into changing
13:01our equipment from going from the eastern one to the completely western dependency on
13:08the equipment.
13:09We are entering the new phase of being solely responsible for as a member of the NATO and
13:18increasing our expenditure.
13:20But settling European pillar of NATO doesn't mean that we can immediately go into strategic
13:27autonomy because strategic autonomy means that we have nuclear shield that is fully
13:32functioning.
13:33Can we rely on that?
13:35Just one country that is still has a different way of deciding how to provide this nuclear
13:41shield.
13:42So, in my opinion, for the time being, we have to show our readiness to invest much
13:49more into European defence and we are showing it.
13:53But in the long run, we still are dependent on United States of America and we want them
13:59to stay as a functional member of NATO who is really providing the most.
14:05Right.
14:06So, we've heard defence, food, medication.
14:08Is that on top of your priority list too, Eva?
14:11Yeah, I mean, it's an important part of the priority list, but I think the priority list
14:16also needs to include other parts.
14:21For example, once again, the importance of ensuring we have a functional infrastructure,
14:27medical supply, for example, that we are not fully dependent on US.
14:33We also need, when it comes to the strategical autonomy, we need to also look at the social
14:38media platforms, for example, right now with the power that they have and who they are
14:41controlled by.
14:44Both ensure that we enforce the legislation that we have, regardless who are the owners
14:51of the social media platform, but also looking to how can EU create its own platforms.
14:57So, I think when it comes to the preparedness and when it comes to EU becoming stronger,
15:05we need to see it from a broader perspective also.
15:07But first and foremost, the most important, I would say, is a united European Union.
15:13And unfortunately, we see Orbán in Hungary, but we also see Slovakia turning to the other
15:21side, so to say.
15:22Yeah.
15:23Sandro, do you agree?
15:24Well, I mean, in the last years, we have gone through a series of major, I would say, historical
15:32crises that show that we are too dependent on the rest of the world.
15:37First, the crisis, the COVID crisis, we discovered that we are dependent on pharmaceutical production
15:43on India or on China.
15:47And it is clear that we cannot, we have to regain autonomy on that.
15:51Then we had the aggression of Putin, the war of Putin against Ukraine.
15:56And we discovered that we are too dependent, some countries are too dependent for energy
16:01on Russia.
16:02So, it is clear that energy is another issue which we have to diversify and we have to
16:06become more autonomous.
16:07And now, we have discovered, finally, that after all, Emmanuel Macron was right in 2017,
16:13that for our security and defence, we cannot depend on the decision of American voters
16:19each four years.
16:20And we cannot depend on what thinks the President of the United States of America.
16:27We have to become much more autonomous in the military and defence field.
16:32That doesn't mean that we have to be alternative to NATO.
16:35It doesn't mean that we have to do something outside the transatlantic framework.
16:40That means that we have to become more credible, more effective within the transatlantic alliance,
16:46but also that we must give ourselves the means to provide for our security, also when the
16:52Americans decide not to do so.
16:54And I think that, unfortunately, the very aggressive declaration of Donald Trump and
16:59of his Vice-President Vance are very clear and they only have to push us to accelerate.
17:06So I mean, the autonomy is manifold.
17:08The autonomy, one key aspect, one key focus of this strategy is the stockpiling of essential
17:14equipment and supplies, especially medicines.
17:17You've mentioned that.
17:18You've mentioned that already.
17:20Something that is supposed to go into your survival kit as well.
17:23Does Europe have the necessary supply chains for that?
17:26We spoke to Elisabeth Kuiper from the European Policy Centre and she had this answer for
17:31us.
17:32Take a listen.
17:33Critical medicines are medicines for which no alternative is available.
17:36And if you think, for example, about a very concrete product, which is antibiotics, which
17:40really are the cornerstone of modern medicines, and very few companies actually manufacture
17:45them in the EU.
17:46So if we would run out of antibiotics, that would be very harmful for patients and healthcare
17:50systems.
17:51So the Critical Medicines Act is to enhance resilience and security of pharmaceutical
17:55supply chain issues.
17:57And part of it can be done via, for example, investing in manufacturing capacities, but
18:02also investing in reforming procurement capacities and systems.
18:08And that is feasible.
18:09But I think we need to be careful when we speak about independence, because after all,
18:13we're speaking about global supply chain.
18:15So it's about openness, but probably we need to redefine openness and see with whom we
18:20can work.
18:21You made an interesting point there with the independence versus a global supply change.
18:26Is this where the strategic economy finds its limits, Evin?
18:31You still need global partners, right?
18:34Yeah, definitely.
18:35I mean, independence doesn't mean protectionism.
18:37It means that we need the basis, the most important parts.
18:41But nevertheless, I mean, there are other partners also.
18:43We have Australia, we have Great Britain, we have Canada and many others.
18:48And hopefully also U.S. will come to its sense one day and Trump will be out of the
18:57White House so that we can continue having these important relations, the transatlantic
19:03relations that we have.
19:04But there are many other partners also, Japan, for example.
19:07We have Mexico, Brazil.
19:09So yeah, strategic autonomy means strong Europe, but it does mean an isolated Europe.
19:16We'll see Trump, that might be a pious wish here after his latest remarks.
19:22Juliana, wouldn't independence also mean some sort of protectionism?
19:28And would that endanger global cooperation on issues like climate change and the fight
19:35against pandemics?
19:36Well, he must be aware of the new world order in making a multilateral world that we know
19:47has changed.
19:48And we must admit as well that without America contributing to that, we cannot, we won't
19:54be able to do much.
19:56I used to be, I used to cover UN agencies and the problems that we are facing with this
20:04fact that sooner or later will hit us.
20:07But still, if we are trying to make all these trade agreements, but recently who was the
20:14one who liberated the trade route in the Red Sea?
20:16It was Americans.
20:18And without, you know, without the criticism, we must accept the reality, build bridges
20:25with the United States, whoever is in the administration at this moment, to try to assure
20:32and to have the security, but also work without like my...
20:36I want to ask Sandro, because we're running out of time here on this topic.
20:39Sandro, on this defense independence, it takes, I mean, Germany has put massive money on the
20:45table.
20:46The EU has mobilized a lot of money.
20:49All this takes years until we see the results of this.
20:54What I want to know is, does this come with a new role for Europe in the world?
20:59It must be.
21:00It must come with a new role for Europe.
21:01We must absolutely see this opportunity.
21:04I mean, we have to show a sense of urgency, a sense of urgency is to continue to support
21:10Ukraine, to have a fair and long-lasting peace.
21:15But at the same time, we have to see what we want to be from here in 10 years.
21:20And we have to build up a new governance.
21:23We have to structure and make permanent our cooperation for defense security.
21:27We have to create a group of willing and able countries within the Union which cooperate
21:31with the UK, with Canada.
21:33This is exactly...
21:34We have wasted too much time.
21:35That's a great...
21:36Too much time.
21:37That's exactly the issue here right now.
21:39We have to finish this conversation here.
21:42We're going to take a short break.
21:44And when we come back, tariff terror.
21:47Is Trump tanking the global economy?
21:50Don't go away.
21:58Welcome back to Brussels, my love.
22:00Our guests are still Sandro Godzi, Evin Inchir and Zeljana Zovko.
22:06The world economy is struggling to make sense of the latest salvo of Donald Trump's tariffs.
22:11And it's businesses and consumers everywhere who will likely foot the bill one way or the
22:17other.
22:18The European Central Bank renewed its warning of severe economic consequences.
22:22Goldman Sachs upgraded their U.S. recession risk to 35%.
22:27And stock markets around the world are experiencing one bad trading day after the other.
22:33So, everything is at stake here.
22:36Inflation is on the rise.
22:37Consumption is showing signs of weakness.
22:39And consumer sentiment is slipping.
22:42All this stemming from Trump's tariff policy.
22:45How much worse can it get, Sandro?
22:49It can get, it can turn into very bad and nasty tension across the Atlantic, which doesn't
22:55make any sense.
22:57What Donald Trump is doing doesn't make any sense.
23:00With the tariff that he has announced, we risk to lose 1% of our wealth as European.
23:06And the Americans are going to lose 0.5%.
23:09It doesn't make sense, the escalation that he's looking for.
23:13And I understand that in Washington, I've been in Washington, in Washington they are
23:17obsessed with China.
23:18They think that the big competition for Washington is against Beijing.
23:22And they start hitting their best historical allies, that are the Europeans.
23:28This is absolutely, I mean, wrong, this is a major mistake.
23:33And also, they do not want to negotiate with the only actor who can negotiate on our behalf,
23:38which is the European Union, the European Commission.
23:39This is what Donald Trump must understand.
23:41He sees the European Union as an obstacle.
23:44He says that the EU was born to screw the US, which is historically false.
23:49They don't like the Europeans.
23:50They hate the Europeans.
23:51They hate the European Union because they see the European Union as the only obstacle
23:55to their imperialistic logic.
23:58What do our consumers here need to be aware of in the weeks and months ahead?
24:04The consumers will suffer because of this tariff war and the tariffs that are imposed.
24:13But what we are aiming for is a focus on strengthening the single market, the European
24:18single market, and redirecting also our trade.
24:23Some countries will suffer more than the others who were focused on trading with the United
24:28States of America.
24:29And although the trade is at the European Union level, the approach that Trump has towards
24:36certain countries will affect more the economies of the certain countries.
24:40But what we need to do at this moment is also to focus on the trade agreements and
24:46the partners that we are now having this agreement with, like-minded partners, and also strengthening
24:54our single market and redirect our trade.
24:57I mean, we've heard Ursula von der Leyen this week speaking at a parliament saying that
25:01we are the number one economic bloc in the world, we have the biggest population and
25:07we have also a massive arsenal of tools.
25:10Is that the language Donald Trump understands?
25:14And is this the stance that you hear in this building as well?
25:19Unfortunately, that's true.
25:21Trump has shown in many cases that he only knows the strong language, and when he feels
25:27some kind of weakness in a language, he's prepared to go all the way.
25:31That's also the sense that I feel that most of the people here in the parliament also
25:37feel, even though Trump's allies on the far right side have grown after the last mandate.
25:43Most of us, or at least us pro-democratic and pro-European forces, have that stand.
25:50But what I just want to emphasize also, that the logic of Trump is ludicrous.
25:55And we see already that some people in the US are reconsidering why they even voted for
26:00Trump.
26:02At the same time, I also want to highlight the importance of the responsibility that
26:08the companies here in the European Union also need to take.
26:13In Sweden, we have right now a huge discussion on that the CEOs take out a lot of profit
26:19still, in the middle of this crisis and stakeholders, while everyday people are being affected.
26:26So the whole society here also needs to take responsibility.
26:29The CEOs cannot continue and stakeholders take out profits while everyday people are
26:33being affected by the crisis.
26:35We spoke to Philipp Geisel, chief strategist at financial group BNP Paribas Fortis, about
26:43the escalating trade war and its consequences.
26:45He believes that what is happening now could also have a positive side.
26:49Take a listen.
26:51It's an irony that it's the American markets and the American economy that's hurt more
26:55than the European one at the moment.
26:57Now, of course, it's also hurting our markets.
26:59But if you look at the longer term picture, I believe this is maybe the kick in the butt
27:03that Europe needs in order to get this act together.
27:06And I think what's on the table in Germany today and they're going to do, it's a Marshall
27:10Plan.
27:11It's like money that they put in for the reunification.
27:14So that's very important.
27:15Of course, a lot of other things are needed, like more innovation, less regulation, maybe
27:20a capital union, what have you.
27:22But this is a very important first step.
27:24And I think maybe when we look back at this moment, 10, 15 years from now, maybe this
27:28was the point that things started to improve for Europe's short term, yes, volatility,
27:33but maybe there is progress as well.
27:35He's raising two interesting points here, Sandro.
27:37First of all, the kick in the butt argument.
27:39What do you make of this?
27:40So we need a moment like this to get our act together.
27:45I make a proposal, if you allow me.
27:47Let's give the Charlemagne Prix for the good Europeans to Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin
27:53because they are the new founding fathers of the European Union.
27:56They're really putting the Europeans confronted with their need and responsibility.
28:02It is time to act.
28:03We are wasting time, I was saying, on defense.
28:06We are wasting time on investment.
28:08We need European public goods.
28:10We need a strategy of private and public investment.
28:15We have been discussing with the Germans for at least 10 years, I was still a minister,
28:19the Union of Investment and Savings, and the Germans have always blocked for their
28:25banking system.
28:26Now it's time to act.
28:27So I mean, if Germany wakes up, because they woke up with Putin on energy, they are waking
28:34up now with Trump on security, if they wake up also on the need of union of capital investment,
28:39I think that we take some bold step towards a real union.
28:44Kick in the butt and 15 years from now, we'll be happy about this.
28:49No, absolutely.
28:50We should never complain about somebody else if we have not understood so far that we cannot
28:57live in a la-la land where everything is perfect.
29:00We have perfect social security.
29:03The state is providing for everything.
29:06I mean, this is how the old socialist system have dissolved.
29:11And I think predator system, what Trump is representing, shows you that the world is
29:18a jungle where you have to prepare your citizens for this game.
29:22It's a jungle, yeah.
29:23I hope not.
29:24All right.
29:25So much for the escalating trade war.
29:27The latest on this topic, as always, in our news, TV or digital.
29:31For now, thanks to our guests and to our viewers.
29:34Stay with us.
29:37Hello and welcome to Brussels, my love, our weekly talk show here on Euronews.
29:48I'm Stefan Grobe.
29:49My guests are three members of the European Parliament.
29:51Evin Insier, a Social Democrat from Sweden.
29:54Juliana Zovko, a Christian Democrat from Croatia.
29:57And Sandro Gozzi from France, representing the Liberal Renew Group.
30:03Let's imagine, for the sake of argument, Elon Musk was an EU citizen and marauded through
30:08EU institutions with his chainsaw, massacring staff and budgets.
30:13How many EU employees in Brussels, Strasbourg and Luxembourg would he fire?
30:18Which agencies would he close or which services would he abolish as unnecessary?
30:24Would he take an axe to the European Parliament's daycare center, for example?
30:28Now, speaking of the European Parliament, could Musk find what he's looking for here?
30:34After all, the European Parliament has seats in Strasbourg and Brussels, as well as the
30:38Secretariat in Luxembourg.
30:40Is that too much of a good thing, Juliana?
30:44I'm quite critical on this matter and I'm well known for it.
30:49Critical, meaning you're...
30:50No, I think that we should have, we should show more efficiency and all that to be in
30:55line with the, you know, with the time we are going through and also the need to cut
31:02down the bureaucracy.
31:03So bureaucracy should not replicate itself.
31:06We are there to help businesses.
31:10Businesses are paying, and working citizens are paying for our salaries.
31:14And Brussels, when they say they hate Europe, they don't hate Europe, they hate Brussels.
31:19And this is what we are, as elected politicians, we are feeling when we are going to our constituencies.
31:26They're asking us, what is going on?
31:28I mean, how are you helping our businesses?
31:30How are you helping our SMEs to thrive?
31:34And we are working hard as a political group as well to deliver, to show that European
31:39Union is competitive and that we are not into bureaucracy anymore.
31:44But all this double seat, Evan, Brussels, Strasbourg of the European Parliament, I mean,
31:51this is something that is part of the treaty.
31:53It was fully incorporated in 1997.
31:56We have to live with it.
31:57It's law.
31:58I mean, there have been repeated initiatives ever since, also from inside the parliament,
32:06to change this and to abandon one seat.
32:09And that's where the problems start, usually.
32:12What is your take on this?
32:13Well, I'm totally, very clearly against having these two seats and three also, if we include
32:20Luxembourg on it.
32:22And I think that the more realistic or the better would be to have one seat, both from
32:28an economical perspective, from an environmental perspective and from an efficiency perspective.
32:35So there are no arguments at all to maintain this moving carousel?
32:40It's not only a question of money, which is very little.
32:43The question of history and of symbol.
32:46Strasbourg is a symbol for the European of the reconciliation after two world wars.
32:51Strasbourg is the regional capital of a region which has shifted between France and Germany
32:56I don't know how many times.
32:59And I think that also we have to, I mean, always recall to the citizens the history
33:03from which we come.
33:06And the other point is why we want to centralize everything in Brussels.
33:09I'm very surprised.
33:10Especially, I mean, our colleagues from Sweden, the Swedes are always so reluctant about centralization.
33:15Oh my God, the European Union is taking away from Sweden our best democracy in the world.
33:24And then they want to centralize everything in Brussels.
33:27Why?
33:28Let's let her answer.
33:29Uniting diversity means also being decentralized with the institution of the Union.
33:34And I mean, we talk about 100 million euro per year.
33:38Do you know how much a manager costs?
33:41Now you're sounding like Elon Musk, let me try that again.
33:44You started with Musk, I'm giving the Musk argument.
33:49I don't think we need Musk to highlight and address this issue, because this has been
33:56a long, ongoing discussion about the seats.
34:00But for me, it's not about centralization, because I'm not talking about the agencies.
34:05The agencies shouldn't be in one place.
34:07They could be in different member states, and it should be, because all the member states
34:11need to have a connection to the European Union, because the European Union is the member
34:15state.
34:16But when it comes to the specific parliament, I do not see any sense of having several parliaments.
34:22We don't have it in Sweden.
34:24France doesn't have several parliaments in France, as far as I know.
34:28In Croatia, I cannot imagine there are.
34:29Belgium has a lot, right?
34:30Yeah, but I'm talking about national parliaments.
34:35So that's a crucial problem.
34:37But my point is that we should reduce bureaucracy, not reduce seats.
34:41I'm very Francophile, and I think that we should keep a seat in Strasbourg, because
34:47that's very symbolical, and it's politically important to send the message that this is
34:53a city of reconciliation, and we must remember the war, and how the European Union was made.
34:59We know that there was a discussion, maybe, that the seat is in Rome, in the beginning,
35:03after the Treaty of Rome.
35:05So Brussels is perfect, but Belgium is a perfect example.
35:09Brussels has a bad image for all our citizens, just, you know, they're always blaming Brussels.
35:15So we should also publicize more that we are also in Strasbourg, and in Luxembourg.
35:20But bureaucracy should be reduced.
35:23We should cut all these unnecessary commissions and, you know, bureaucratic procedures.
35:30This is how we could save more.
35:31I like it.
35:32It's not only...
35:33Maybe reducing the agency would be a good idea, because nobody knows that the agency
35:39is in the States.
35:40Most people derive this as a traveling circus every month.
35:43But I must say, and I'm affected by this as well, I come here once a month for a few days,
35:49and I like it.
35:50I like Strasbourg.
35:51I think it's part of the European, you know, political and cultural reality that we have
35:59several centers of policy and opinion-making.
36:03I think we can actually cherish culture in different ways also.
36:07It doesn't just need to be through having the seats in several different places.
36:11But we also need to have in mind that it costs.
36:17It's taxpayers' money we are talking about.
36:18So if we want to be efficient, we need to have that included.
36:21It's also, from an environmental perspective, not good at all.
36:25And efficiently, work-wise efficiently, I do not see any advantages from that perspective
36:31also.
36:32So I fully subscribe to that.
36:33We need to cherish our history.
36:35But I can promise you that very few people in Sweden would know this historical link
36:42to Strasbourg.
36:43Don't underestimate the knowledge of history of your own city.
36:49It's getting really heaty, but it was a great conclusion, and finally we've seen some action
36:54here.
36:55We've reached, unfortunately, the end of Brussels, my love.
36:59Thank you all for watching, and many thanks to our panel here in the parliament.
37:05If you want to continue the conversation on any topic, write to brusselsmylove at euronews.com
37:11or contact us on social media.
37:15That's it for this edition.
37:16I'm Stefan Grobe.
37:17Thank you for watching again.
37:19Have an excellent week.
37:20See you soon.