Derren Howard of Sussex World is joined by Sunderland Echo football writer Phil Smith. They discuss the transfer of Tommy Watson who yesterday agreed a deal to join Brighton from Sunderland for around £10m.
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00:00Okay, welcome to a special edition of the Goalmouth Action Podcast and we're pleased
00:08to have with us today Sunderland Echo football writer, Phil Smith, who can provide some insight
00:13on Brighton's new arrival, Tommy Watson.
00:15Yesterday, the Seagulls finally completed the transfer of their long-term target as
00:20the 18-year-old England Youth International, Greta Dill, at the Amex Stadium until June
00:252029.
00:27So Phil, thanks for joining.
00:30What type of player are Brighton getting for their money, which is a reported initial fee
00:34of around about £10 million, I think?
00:38Yeah, he's a very, very explosive winger, is probably how I would describe Tommy.
00:44He's right-footed, plays off the left.
00:46We haven't really seen him play any other kind of role on the team.
00:50Has moved about a little bit into the under-21s, but that was much more about his development
00:54really.
00:56He hasn't been playing any other position.
00:58Very much right-footed, plays off the left wing, wants to cut inside, wants to take players
01:02on, wants to shoot.
01:05He's an exceptional dribbler.
01:06That's probably the main thing about Tommy Watson.
01:08It's probably the thing that I imagine that has most persuaded Brighton to sign him.
01:13He glides past players.
01:15He's incredibly good at keeping the ball, getting out of tight spaces, winning fouls.
01:20So yeah, I think explosive is probably how I would describe him.
01:23A very powerful, not necessarily physical, but in terms of his ability to keep the ball,
01:27I think is probably his key strength.
01:29Yeah.
01:30Yeah.
01:31Sounds good.
01:32Sounds a good, exciting prospect for Brighton fans to look forward to.
01:35And the club tried to sign him in January.
01:37I read you a great piece on this morning on the Son of the Neco website.
01:42So why is the deal agreed?
01:45Has it been agreed now, Phil?
01:48I think Brighton have been very persistent.
01:52I think this wasn't just a January thing.
01:56I know that on deadline day, well, it would have been last September, wasn't it?
01:59Maybe August, whenever it was, quite a few bids went in.
02:03So I think Brighton have been very persistent.
02:05I think obviously Brighton are a bit different to most clubs in that their financial situation
02:10and their stability means they can be a bit more proactive, can't they?
02:13And that probably is why they do a lot more business outside of transfer windows than
02:16you usually see.
02:18I think from Sunderland's perspective, obviously, they've stood quite firm on the last couple
02:23of transfer windows, Watson, but his contract has been continuously running down.
02:30And we're approaching a point now, obviously, if it gets to the summer, we'll only have
02:3312 months left.
02:34And I think that Brighton were quite savvy and also quite brave because it's a lot of
02:39money.
02:40They've come back with another, put another really good bid on the table.
02:43And I think from Sunderland's perspective, they're looking at it going, are we going
02:47to get a better offer than this in the summer when he's only got 12 months on his contract?
02:51Maybe, maybe not.
02:53What happens if he gets an injury between now and the end of the season?
02:56And then all of a sudden, we've got an injured player going into the last 12 months of his
02:59contract.
03:00So I think that Brighton have been definitely brave and definitely gutsy, but also quite
03:04savvy in coming back with a fairly similar bid to what was on the table at the end of
03:08January.
03:09And from Sunderland's perspective, you know, it doesn't leave a hole in their squad right
03:12now.
03:13Watson can obviously still play.
03:16And then it gives them a little bit of security really going into the summer that they know
03:19that there's no uncertainty hanging over Watson.
03:22They know exactly what's going to happen and there's obviously a little bit of a kind of
03:25war chest there now for them to do their preparation.
03:28So yeah, I think there's a combination of factors, but I think it's his contract situation
03:33really that's the key, the key thing.
03:36Once it became clear that Watson was still quite keen to go to Brighton and wasn't going
03:40to sign an extension, I think that sort of cleared the way for Brighton to come back
03:44to the tier in the last few weeks.
03:46Yeah.
03:47Yeah.
03:48And how have Sunderland fans reacted to the deal?
03:51Is it sort of the 10 million fee?
03:53Do you think that's a good, are they quite happy with that?
03:56And are they gutted to lose a player of his talent?
03:58Yeah, it's a really, really strange one.
04:01I think there's a lot of mixed emotions.
04:03I think first and foremost, from a business perspective, it obviously makes sense.
04:06I think for, you know, in the region of 10 million, decent sell on for a player of his
04:13age and experience, he's obviously got business.
04:15I think there's some sadness, definitely, because he's a homegrown academy player who's
04:18been at the age of Sunderland since he was six, but there's also this kind of weird feeling
04:23whereby he's not actually Sunderland's first choice leg winger at the moment.
04:26That's Romain Mundell, who's been brilliant this season because of his injury issues this
04:31season.
04:32He's still only played 16 games in his career for Sunderland.
04:34So it's a bit like there's still so many unknowns around Tommy and a lot of Sunderland fans
04:40haven't really seen that much of him as a player.
04:43So I think that, understandably, aside from the fact that he's a homegrown player, means
04:46it's been really hard to build that kind of connection that you might get normally with
04:50an academy player.
04:51So I think slightly mixed emotions.
04:53I think people are pretty satisfied that it represents good business.
04:58But yeah, it's an odd one because, as I say, it's not as if he's an absolutely key player
05:03in the team at the moment for one reason or another.
05:06That's not the case.
05:07So slightly unusual circumstances, I think.
05:10Yeah.
05:11Yeah.
05:12We're hearing that there's about a 20 per cent sell-on fee that Sunderland negotiated.
05:15Is that what you've heard as well?
05:18And do you think that's a good, that seems a savvy deal for Sunderland's point of view?
05:23Yeah, I think so.
05:24Certainly, 20 per cent is what I've heard, the fee, potentially 11 million if all the
05:29add-ons are met, obviously, whether that's the case, whether those are all realised,
05:34we'll wait and see.
05:35But I think it's very good business from a Sunderland perspective.
05:38I think that, obviously, the business that Brighton have done over a long period of time
05:43allows them to be a bit gutsy, doesn't it?
05:45And it allows them maybe to take gambles that other clubs, for whatever reason, aren't able
05:51to take.
05:52So I don't necessarily think that Brighton have overpaid.
05:55Tommy is.
05:56Anyone who's watched any Under-21s football over the last 18 months will tell you that
05:59when he was fit, he was one of the absolute best players of his age in the country.
06:04His goal-scoring record was phenomenal.
06:06We've seen flashes of it at Championship level for his injury reasons.
06:10We haven't seen it consistently, but I don't think there's any doubt about the talent.
06:14Whether he'll realise that in the Premier League, obviously, I've got absolutely no
06:17idea and nobody does.
06:18But I think Brighton's sort of strong position in terms of the stability they have as a club
06:23and also financially probably means that they feel they're able to take a bit of a gamble
06:27where other clubs who maybe need a player who's ready right away or whatever, maybe
06:31feel like it's not worth quite the risk.
06:33So it's definitely, I think it's a really good deal for Sunderland, but I can certainly
06:37see from Brighton's perspective, they feel it's worth what is most definitely a bit of
06:42a gamble.
06:44And you mentioned he's had a couple of injury problems this term.
06:47What's been the issues?
06:48And is he back to his best now?
06:50Is he sort of fit and firing?
06:54Not particularly.
06:56He'd just broken into the team, sort of October, November, because Romain Mundel, who I mentioned
07:00earlier, who was outstanding in the first few months of the season, got a bad hamstring
07:04injury.
07:05Tommy was just hitting his stride.
07:06He scored a brace against, I think off the top of my head, it was Norwich City, basically
07:11a match-winning performance.
07:12I think he got injured in pretty much the next game.
07:15It was an impact injury, a sort of knee and ankle, so it's quite a nasty one.
07:19He was out for about three months, I think.
07:22So he's only just come back into the fold in the last month.
07:24I think he's only started one game since then.
07:28He's definitely not back to where he was before the injury.
07:30I wouldn't necessarily expect him to be.
07:33I suppose it's going to be interesting over the next few weeks now, just in terms of,
07:36you know, Sunderland have made very clear that he's definitely available for selection.
07:39They've got no concerns, despite this transfer happening, but, you know, whether he'll be
07:42able to fight his way past Romain Mundel, who we're pretty sure is going to be at Sunderland
07:47next season.
07:48I mean, I don't know.
07:49I don't know what view the head coach will take on that.
07:52So it's going to be interesting to see how that pans out over the next few weeks.
07:56Yeah, good stuff, good stuff.
07:57And Sunderland are currently fourth, aren't they, in the championship and going really
08:01well and they've got quite a few bright young talents at the moment, haven't they?
08:05What's been behind this emergence of this excellent sort of crop of youngsters that's
08:10coming through?
08:12I think that, well, Sunderland's academy has always been exceptional, even when they sort
08:17of went back-to-back relegations and ended up in League One.
08:22To be honest, they were still producing really, really good players.
08:28What was happening then was, because of the position the club was in both financially
08:31with its ownership, with the fact that it was in League One, those players were going
08:35at 14-15.
08:36They were going to Liverpool, they were going to Man Utd, they were going to Arsenal.
08:42Really the only thing that's changed is the stability, both financially and the fact that
08:46Sunderland are in the championship means that they can keep these players until they
08:49get to 16-17 and they can actually put them in the team.
08:53I think, to be fair, there's been fairly similar to Brighton, there's been a huge culture shift
08:57really just in terms of actually giving young players 10 games, not just putting them in
09:02for one game.
09:03And if they don't sort of get fired straight away, then take them out.
09:08So I think it's partially a culture shift, but I think the main thing really is I don't
09:10think the academy production's ever really been an issue, even when the club was in pretty
09:14dire straits generally.
09:15I think the difference is they've been able, because the club's in a better place, they've
09:18been able to keep these players for another two, three years.
09:20So people are actually seeing them.
09:23Giving them a chance to show up.
09:26There's a lad called James O'Connell who's been around Liverpool's first team this season.
09:31He was a Sunderland academy product, but he left I think when he was 15, maybe 16.
09:35So there's loads of examples out there of these lads, it's just the difference now is
09:38that they're actually staying at Sunderland until they get to a point where they can get
09:42in the first team.
09:43Yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:45And there was reported interest from Sunderland in January in Brighton, Simon Odinga, there
09:50was talk of him moving in the opposite direction.
09:54What happened with that?
09:55Did you hear anything from the Sunderland end?
09:57What happened with that?
09:58And have you heard any more?
10:00Is that like, are they likely to rekindle that interest?
10:04Well, it definitely was a big factor.
10:06I think ultimately the reason why Watson didn't go to Brighton on deadline day was because
10:11Sunderland couldn't get a deal for Odinga over the line.
10:13I think that, from my understanding, there were some reservations both from Brighton's
10:18side and the players' side about dipping into the Championship.
10:22I'm not sure what you think, but I think he probably would have been a bit good for that
10:25level.
10:27And so I think there were definitely some reservations on that end about him dropping
10:31down.
10:32That's what we heard as well, this end, yeah.
10:36Which makes me think that if Sunderland didn't get promoted, it would be quite unlikely.
10:39But certainly he's a player they really, really rate.
10:42If Odinga had come, they would have let Watson go to Brighton in January when that deal was
10:46on the table.
10:47I don't think there's any doubt about that whatsoever.
10:49But once it didn't, as I mentioned, Romain Mundell was already injured and Sunderland
10:54weren't sure what calibre of player they'd be able to sign.
10:57So they'd essentially been going into the end of the season with no wingers.
11:00And I think that was just something that, you know, when at that point, there was still
11:03very much an automatic promotion contention, never mind the playoffs.
11:06So I think it was just something they couldn't really consider.
11:09So I think it could be rekindled in the fact that he's clearly a player they rate very,
11:14very highly.
11:15But I think given his reluctance to drop into the championship, it's one that I would find
11:19hard to see happening unless Sunderland got promoted, whether that would make it.
11:24I'm not sure.
11:25Tommy Watson's got a lot of competition, hasn't he?
11:27And that's the other interesting kind of...
11:29That's the interesting thing.
11:31We were looking at that this morning as to, you know, what will happen with Watson, whether
11:35he's going to go straight into, you know, first in contention or whether they may look
11:39for a loan for him in the next season.
11:43But then we look at what's that going to happen to Odinga.
11:46You've got Karen Matoma.
11:47Other clubs are quite interested in signing Matoma.
11:50So there could be quite a bit of movement at Brighton this summer.
11:54And yeah, Tommy Watson, I guess, is someone who could, you know, be one for the future,
11:59who could help them in the near future.
12:03So, yeah, it's an interesting one to keep an eye on, but yeah, no, that's great.
12:08Thanks.
12:09Thanks, Phil.
12:10Thanks for your time.
12:11It's great.
12:12Great insight.
12:13And you can see more in-depth coverage on the Watson deal on the Sunderland Echo and
12:17the Sussex World websites, along with all the latest on Sunderland's promotion push
12:21and Brighton's bid to achieve European football this season.
12:24But thanks again for joining us, Phil.
12:27Pleasure.
12:28Thanks for having me.