Justin Moore didn’t just build a career in content creation, he built a playbook for making money. After years of landing brand deals with his wife, he saw most creators making costly mistakes. He wrote Sponsor Magnet to help them pitch better, secure partnerships, and get paid what they’re worth.
Watch now to learn how to perfect a pitch, what brands care about, and why storytelling is one of the most prized commodities.
Watch now to learn how to perfect a pitch, what brands care about, and why storytelling is one of the most prized commodities.
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00:00You hear this advice a lot.
00:01Okay, make this pixel perfect media kit
00:03over the last 100 deals
00:05that my wife and I have done personally.
00:07Maybe only two or three brands have asked for a media kit.
00:10My advice that I give to creators in these situations
00:13is like, don't let that be the first response.
00:15Your first response should be,
00:16hey, let's hop on a phone call.
00:18♪♪
00:23Welcome to Restaurant Influencers
00:25presented by Entrepreneur.
00:26I'm your host, Sean Walsh.
00:27This is a Cali BBQ Media production.
00:30We launched the show back in 2022
00:32to dive deep into storytelling.
00:35We believe deeply in the business creator economy.
00:38We believe deeply in restaurants.
00:40We believe deeply in technology.
00:42And thankfully, Toast, our primary technology partner
00:44at our barbecue restaurants in San Diego,
00:47they sponsored the show.
00:48They said, Sean, we believe in your storytelling skills.
00:50Go out, find the best storytellers in hospitality,
00:54and let's learn.
00:55Let's learn what's going on in the creator economy.
00:58Let's learn how restaurants
00:59can better expand their revenue streams.
01:03So a lot of the times we talk about retail in restaurants
01:06or real estate or stadiums.
01:08What we talk about on this show
01:10is how to monetize with brand deals.
01:13And I couldn't be more excited because I found the guy.
01:17I found the guy that talks about the things
01:20that we started this show to teach people about.
01:23And he has written the book.
01:26It is called Sponsor Magnet, and it is Justin Moore.
01:29Justin, welcome to the show, my friend.
01:31Sean, I'm so thrilled to be here, man.
01:34And yeah, writing the book has been so fascinating
01:37because it's introducing to people like you
01:40who are doing such fascinating things
01:42in all sorts of different niches,
01:43and I just love what you've built, man.
01:45Well, I am so grateful to have you on the show.
01:47We believe so deeply in internet storytelling.
01:50I think it stems from me being a restaurant owner in 2008,
01:56how hard it was to keep our restaurants open,
01:59knowing that we leveraged the internet early on,
02:02social media early on to get people to care
02:05about our restaurant, to build community,
02:07and then to know that I wasn't alone,
02:10I think was the biggest thing,
02:11of knowing that it's one thing to get customers in.
02:13It's another thing to build a community
02:15of other restaurant owners
02:16that we're all trying to figure it out.
02:18And I've been grateful to have this show and this platform
02:21to talk to some of the most successful restaurateurs
02:24in the entire globe, and they'll tell me the same thing.
02:27We do this show and they're like,
02:28we're trying to figure it out.
02:30So we have the platform today.
02:32We're gonna dive into your story,
02:34but I'm gonna start with my favorite random question,
02:36which is where in the world
02:37is your favorite stadium, stage, or venue?
02:41Wow, stadium, stage, or venue.
02:45That's a great one.
02:45Well, growing up, little known fact,
02:47I was actually in a metal band.
02:49So I've played a lot of different venues
02:51throughout my life, and so it's gotta be probably
02:54something like the Troubadour in LA,
02:57because I'm a punk kid,
03:01gone to all those gritty stages,
03:02the Will Turn, et cetera, in LA,
03:04and so it probably will say the Troubadour.
03:06Okay, let's go to the Troubadour.
03:07How many does the Troubadour seat?
03:09I mean, there's really no seats.
03:11It's all standing room only.
03:12It's like probably capacity's like 130.
03:17I don't know.
03:18I might be totally off, but I think probably about that.
03:20Perfect, we're gonna go to the Troubadour.
03:21We're gonna get some sponsors.
03:23We'll talk to Toast, entrepreneur.
03:25You and I will get together.
03:26We'll collaborate.
03:27We'll figure out who should we reach out to
03:29to host a Restaurant Influencers event.
03:32So people that play the game within the game,
03:34the people that watch this show,
03:35that subscribe to this show,
03:37that show up for our community events, we appreciate you,
03:40but I'm gonna bring you center stage, give you the mic,
03:44and say, Justin, I've heard you talk about sponsorships.
03:48I've heard you talk about your business,
03:50and number one, I've heard you talk about
03:52the fear of writing this book
03:54because you would kill your business.
03:56Can you share a story about the fear,
04:00and now that the book is out into the world,
04:03where is that fear?
04:05Yeah, so the fear of writing the book was,
04:09I am someone who, I've been a creator along with my wife
04:11for about 15 years, and so we've been doing this full-time,
04:15me 10 years, her about 12 years,
04:17and so it very much has kind of been
04:19the family business for a long time,
04:20but the prospect of educating people
04:22around the process of collaborating with brands
04:24is a relatively new thing over the last four or five years,
04:26and so my business is expertise, right?
04:28So the way in which you hire me is my courses,
04:31my education, or my coaching, right?
04:33And I have this really sincere fear
04:35that if I put all the kind of secret sauce, so to speak,
04:39you'll probably appreciate that reference.
04:40Come on, let's just go, let's go.
04:42There you go, let's go.
04:44That I feared that no one would hire me,
04:47or no one would take my courses,
04:49or no one would want to pay me, basically,
04:52and I have full-time employees.
04:54I've got this kind of engine behind the business,
04:56a bunch of freelancers, all this stuff, too,
04:57to keep this media company running,
05:02and I had this very real fear that,
05:04well, I guess no one's gonna really,
05:05if they can access it for whatever,
05:0720 bucks or nine bucks for an e-book or something,
05:10why would they hire me?
05:12And so a lot of that fear came from, I think,
05:16a scarcity mindset view that a lot of people have,
05:18which is just like, you know,
05:23believing that people, when they,
05:27look at my own behavior.
05:28Oftentimes when I read a book, I read,
05:30I finish the chapter, and then I'm just like,
05:32that person's the expert on that thing,
05:35and if I ever have that problem,
05:36like, man, would I love to be able to hire them
05:39for a coaching call or hire them
05:40for ongoing support or something?
05:42And even though I knew that intuitively,
05:45I still didn't think that was gonna be the case for me,
05:47and so it's been this really interesting evolution
05:49because now that the book is out,
05:51it's been about a month and a half,
05:53or I guess, yeah, about a month and a half
05:55since it's been out,
05:57and that very much has started to happen.
06:00Course sales have definitely decreased,
06:02like I expected they would,
06:03but the coaching has increased,
06:07you know, kind of at a similar clip,
06:08and so, I don't know, man, it's still scary.
06:11I'm gonna be honest, it's still scary
06:12because I mean, I'm still,
06:14the dust is still settling from the launch, I think.
06:17I appreciate the truth and transparency in the book
06:21as somebody that built a media company
06:23on top of my restaurant
06:25and is teaching other business owners
06:27that you too are a media company.
06:29You don't need to just make B2C content
06:32to drive barbecue sales to your restaurant,
06:35but you can have an incredible partnership
06:37with a company like Toast
06:38if you believe deeply in what they bring to us.
06:42Like, that relationship with Toast
06:44has been so valuable to me,
06:46and we've been trying to pave the way
06:48for other brands in the restaurant space,
06:51hospitality space, to understand,
06:55we pay these bills,
06:56we make this conscious payments every single day
06:59to choose what bread we're using,
07:00to choose what ice machine we're using,
07:02and like, all of those brands,
07:04they all need storytelling on the internet.
07:07We're in this crazy time where, you know,
07:09and especially in the B2B space
07:11where you go on LinkedIn or you go on YouTube,
07:13all these companies spend tens of thousands,
07:16hundreds of thousands,
07:17millions of dollars to show up at trade shows,
07:21yet the greatest trade show on earth,
07:23it's happening right now on the internet,
07:25every single day.
07:28You know, it's such a great point, man,
07:30and I think the mistake a lot of people make
07:32when they hear you give that advice,
07:34they're like, okay,
07:35well, let me get on a phone call
07:36with this vendor or whatever,
07:37maybe I have a little bit of presence
07:38on Instagram or whatever,
07:40and they say to the brand,
07:41basically, why are you doing
07:43all of those archaic marketing tactics
07:45that you've been doing for 30 years?
07:47Stop going to the trade show,
07:48stop advertising in the trade magazine
07:51that you've been sponsoring for the last 20 years,
07:52stop doing those things,
07:53this is the wave of the future,
07:55work with me, work with creators,
07:57work with businesses who have presences on social media,
08:00and picture yourself as that vendor,
08:03picture yourself as that brand.
08:04That person that you might be talking with,
08:07that might have been their decision
08:09to like sponsor the trade show,
08:10sponsor the magazine,
08:11and so you're basically saying like,
08:12hey, you're an idiot.
08:13And so the advice I often give is like,
08:16no, just like meet people where they're at,
08:18you don't have to say to them like,
08:20hey, change everything about what you're currently doing,
08:22it's more like, hey,
08:24let me help you augment your current strategy
08:27with this new thing that might deliver some results.
08:30Do not skip this ad,
08:32this is important information.
08:34I unboxed Toast, our point of sale
08:37at our barbecue restaurants,
08:39and now here I am interviewing Shaquille O'Neal
08:42on the biggest stages.
08:43We want to hear your Toast story.
08:47If you use Toast in your restaurant,
08:48send me a message at Sean P. Walcheff
08:52on Instagram, S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
08:58We want to hear your Toast story.
09:00If you're thinking about switching to Toast,
09:01we would love to help you.
09:03Please send us a message
09:05so that we can share your Toast story today.
09:10Bring me back to how you open the book,
09:12sitting on the plane about to lose a $25,000 deal
09:16with your wife, with your son.
09:18I have two young children,
09:19they travel with me to conferences,
09:21we create together.
09:24I'm trying to build a media company
09:25with full-time employees, part-time employees.
09:27We're trying to teach other people how to do it.
09:31I would be lying if I told you I have it all figured out.
09:33I don't.
09:35I'm trying every single day to figure out different ways
09:38to get brand deals, different ways to get clients,
09:41different ways to package our services,
09:43to understand, to your point,
09:45we're living in a crazy time
09:47where there's people that believe in the internet,
09:49there's people that know that the internet exists
09:51and they should probably be telling stories on the internet
09:54and then there's this huge gap in between.
09:57Yeah, so the story you mentioned
09:59is I was literally on the runway,
10:01about to take off to fly cross-country to New York
10:05for a in-person shoot that my wife was scheduled to do
10:08with a big brand.
10:11Due to a contractual oversight,
10:14got a call from the agency that represented the brand
10:17basically saying, deals off.
10:19It was basically our fault
10:21and we're sorry that this happened,
10:22but we can't move forward with the deal
10:24because there's a serious discrepancy here.
10:28Basically, in the span of three or four minutes
10:31before we took off, I calmed the agency down.
10:33I said, look, we will sit down.
10:37We're about to fly across the country.
10:38We've got our young kids here.
10:39We're gonna arrive really late.
10:41The call time's at 4 a.m. tomorrow.
10:43We will figure this out.
10:44I can guarantee you that we're gonna figure something out.
10:46We're not gonna just say yes
10:47and just fold to whatever you're asking.
10:50That will require more money, whatever you're asking,
10:52but I promise you, we're gonna figure it out.
10:54Don't worry.
10:55Ultimately, they said, okay, we'll do it.
10:58We won't cancel the shoot.
10:59It ended up going amazingly.
11:02We compromised on the deliverables.
11:05The person that we were working with at the agency
11:07ultimately looked like a hero,
11:09and they went on to hire us a bunch more times for campaigns
11:13and so there's this through line that I talk about
11:15in my book, Sponsor Magnet, is this idea about,
11:18it's not just about maximizing the most amount of money
11:21you make on a per deal basis
11:23when you're trying to forge these types of partnerships.
11:25It's about how do we maximize the amount of money you make
11:29over the lifespan of the relationship with the brand
11:32and when you have that mindset,
11:33you're more willing to concede on specific deal points
11:37knowing that, okay, it's fine.
11:39We're gonna work together for a long time
11:41and so I don't need to dig in my heels on this one.
11:44I think from the way that we look at it
11:47in the restaurant space,
11:49we never wanna view a customer as a transaction.
11:52We view them as a generational customer
11:54that if we do a great job,
11:55they're gonna love our food, love our restaurant.
11:57They're gonna bring their friends.
11:59They're gonna go tell their parents.
12:00They're gonna go tell their kids, eventually bring them
12:03and the same thing happens on the brand side
12:05where you're not just trying to do one deal.
12:09You're trying to understand to your point
12:11what are the pain points that that brand is experiencing
12:15and how can what you've created
12:17help them maximize what they're trying to accomplish.
12:21You know, it's funny, man.
12:22I love that analogy of like thinking about
12:26how you want your relationship with your diners
12:28and your customers to be.
12:30When I was writing the book,
12:31I very specifically thought of
12:34what are the conversations that my audience
12:37or customers are having where my book could get recommended?
12:41Right, I was thinking like, you know,
12:43I literally mapped it out, man.
12:45I was like, okay, here, you know,
12:46someone's saying, oh, I don't know how much
12:47to charge for a deal or oh, this brand
12:49is being really difficult and they're on Twitter
12:51or TikTok or something sharing their grievances
12:53and I was like, okay, what is the,
12:55how could I write this book in such a way
12:57where the natural response is like,
12:59oh, you gotta read Sponsor Magnet from Justin Moore
13:01because this addresses that specific thing.
13:03And so I love thinking in terms of these frameworks,
13:06whether it's writing a book,
13:07whether it's serving your diners
13:08or your customers or whatever,
13:09knowing that like the absolute best way
13:12to just be fully sold out all the time
13:14is to have incredible word of mouth
13:16where not only are you delivering on an amazing product,
13:19but people feel compelled to recommend you.
13:22Can you share, what are the creators,
13:25it's such a fascinating world, the creator economy
13:28and then the things that we focus on
13:29is the business creator economy.
13:31Business owners are already creators.
13:33They've already created a business in real life.
13:35They just haven't capitalized on the storytelling part
13:37of the internet side.
13:39What are most creators doing wrong
13:41when they're thinking about sponsorships?
13:44Well, let me answer this by sharing a quick story.
13:45So I moved from California to Minnesota
13:49a couple of months ago and I hired a handyman
13:53to help me with a bunch of various odds and ends
13:56around the house and I was just mentioning offhanded to him
13:59that, hey, you know, man, before this winter hits,
14:02like I really need to get my gutters treated.
14:04I wanna get like a little guard or trap
14:06or something over the gutters
14:07so leaves don't fall in and freeze and all that.
14:09And he said to me, oh, Justin, there's only one company,
14:13one brand that you should consider.
14:14They're local, they're amazing, they're family owned.
14:17You gotta call them.
14:18And you know what I did, Sean?
14:19I didn't look at Yelp.
14:20I didn't look up any reviews online.
14:22Based off of one guy's recommendation,
14:24I picked up the phone, I called them.
14:26They came out, they gave me an estimate
14:27for like five figures to put these fricking traps
14:30over my gutters.
14:30I don't know if I'm gonna do it,
14:31but like it's such a powerful story.
14:33My handyman doesn't have a presence on the internet,
14:36but he is influential.
14:37He said one thing to me and I went out there
14:40and I'm about to make a purchase decision based on that.
14:42And so I think if you extrapolate this same idea
14:46to your business or your restaurant
14:48or whatever it is that you're running,
14:49who are the types of people that you interact with,
14:52whether it's vendors, whether it's customers,
14:53where your testimonial, your authentic testimonial
14:57to them might cause some sort of purchase behavior
15:00or influence, and then go out to those brands,
15:03go out to those vendors, go out to those companies
15:05and share that like, hey, I'm like,
15:07you know, feels like five times a day
15:08I'm recommending your wholesale X, Y, Z.
15:11Like let's figure out how we can collaborate here
15:14to make this a win-win for both of us.
15:16Let's talk specifically to creators
15:18that have large followings.
15:20We'll get to the micro influencers next,
15:23but let's talk to the food bloggers,
15:26the chefs that have large followings.
15:29What are some of the things that they're doing wrong
15:32when it comes to, I mean, I know you addressed
15:34in the book media kits.
15:35Can you, let's dive a little bit deeper into media kits
15:39and the automization of trying to get sponsors.
15:43Yeah, so I think you hear this advice a lot.
15:46Okay, make this pixel perfect media kit
15:48where you talk about your following
15:50and you talk about your demographics
15:51and talk about your audience
15:53and maybe you throw some brand logos on there
15:55or past work that you've done, et cetera.
15:57But I can share even anecdotally
16:00that over the last 100 deals
16:01that my wife and I have done personally,
16:03maybe only two or three brands have asked for a media kit.
16:07It's much more about understanding
16:09that the brand has a very specific objective
16:11that they're trying to accomplish
16:12with this campaign that they're running.
16:14And so your media kit is nice to have,
16:16but that doesn't really help.
16:17They probably already have that information
16:19just from an initial tire kicking
16:21that they did of you on the internet, right?
16:24And so my advice that I give to creators
16:26in these situations is like,
16:27don't let that be the first response
16:29when you get an inbound inquiry from a brand
16:32or a food brand or a restaurant or whatever it is
16:33that wants to collaborate with you.
16:35Your first response should be,
16:37hey, let's hop on a phone call.
16:38Or at the very least, hey, tell me what success
16:41would look like were we to collaborate.
16:43Actually open this instead of saying,
16:46oh, 1,500 bucks, yeah, for an Instagram post, whatever.
16:48You say, no, I wanna know more about your success metrics.
16:51Is this an awareness campaign?
16:52Are you looking to repurpose my content for ads?
16:55Are you putting it on your social media, your website?
16:57Are you looking to just drive sales, right?
16:59Like foot traffic into your location
17:01or sales of your software program, whatever.
17:03And so the reason it's so critical
17:05that you understand what the brand's objectives are
17:07is that then you could take that information
17:09and put together kind of like a modified media kit,
17:13which is more like called a proposal
17:15where you're directly addressing the pain points
17:18that the brand identified to you
17:21in that initial conversation.
17:22So I think it's much more of a bespoke custom exercise
17:27than it is a like churn and burn.
17:28Let me just see how many brands I can work with
17:30and copy and paste, attach my PDF to this email
17:34and never follow up with them again.
17:37It's much more of a customized exercise.
17:39Let's dispel the myth that you need to have
17:42tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands,
17:44millions of followers on any platform to get a brand deal.
17:48So imagine that you're at the very outset of your journey.
17:52You're a restaurant, you're a creator,
17:54you're a blogger, whatever,
17:55and you don't have a large following.
17:57If you were to reach out to Toast,
18:00if you were to reach out to any vendor or brand
18:03in this space and say,
18:04hey, let me talk about you on my YouTube channel.
18:06And they go and look at your YouTube channel
18:08and you're getting 100 average views.
18:10Let's just be real here.
18:11That's probably not gonna move the needle for them.
18:13Don't get insulted, right?
18:15However, if you have a different mindset about this,
18:18that like, okay, what I pitched them in the early stages
18:21is actually gonna be a little bit different.
18:23What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna do an overall
18:26kind of holistic analysis of their presence on the internet.
18:30Let me look at their blog.
18:31Do they have a blog?
18:31Let me look at their podcast.
18:33Do they have a podcast?
18:34Let me look at the content that they're posting
18:35on their social channels.
18:37Does it suck?
18:38Are they not posting very frequently, right?
18:39And so perhaps your pitch transforms into,
18:42hey, you know, love your restaurant,
18:44love your brand, love your tool.
18:46I would actually, I think there's some better ways
18:48you could be telling your brand story
18:51in a more compelling way.
18:53Let me create some content for you, brand, on autopilot.
18:56I'll create five, 10 videos a month, pictures, whatever.
18:59You can use it on your website.
19:00You can use it on your social media.
19:02You can use it for paid advertising.
19:04Hey, by the way, go take a look at my YouTube channel
19:07or my Instagram because that serves as my portfolio.
19:12So it's a very, very different approach
19:14when you are in the early stages.
19:16Now, let's say you've grown, you grow a little bit, Sean.
19:19You're getting thousands, let's say, of views on your videos
19:22or downloads on your podcast or whatever.
19:24Maybe the pitch is a hybrid.
19:25It's, hey, I'm gonna create some content for you to use.
19:27I'm gonna maybe do some consulting for you.
19:29And yeah, maybe starting to post on my platforms
19:32is becoming meaningful because I have more traction.
19:34Now, let's say you're on the very end of this,
19:36what I call the sponsorship continuum,
19:38and you're crushing it, man.
19:39You're getting tens of thousands of views,
19:40downloads, whatever.
19:41Then yeah, the express thing that you pitch them
19:44is let me talk about you on my platform.
19:46So I think that regardless of where you're at
19:49in your journey, your reach, your audience,
19:51your followers, whatever, what you pitch has to change.
19:54Let's talk a little bit about the things that brands want.
19:59I love the fact that you go deep in your book
20:01about just the discovery call instead of me telling you,
20:04hey, this is our podcast or this is how many people
20:09that we have that follow me on LinkedIn.
20:10This is my engagement.
20:12You actually go into a discovery process
20:15where it's a conversation.
20:18Number one, how do you identify who are the right people
20:20in the brands to reach out to?
20:21And then number two, what's the right conversation to have?
20:25Yeah, so the entire first section of the book
20:31is all about the pitch.
20:32And you're right, there's two main pieces to that formula.
20:37One is what do you actually say
20:39when you reach out to a brand that's compelling to them
20:42enough to get a response?
20:43And then who do you send this to?
20:44So let's tackle the first thing, which is what do you say?
20:47So the mistake that a lot of people make
20:50is they reach out and they just talk about themselves.
20:54They say, hey, this is my platform.
20:56This is how many followers I have.
20:57This is the reach.
20:58And imagine you're the brand.
21:01They don't know who Sean is.
21:03They don't care that you have a lot of followers
21:04on the internet, because there's lots of people
21:06that have a lot of followers on the internet
21:07or a large reach.
21:09And they don't know how they could collaborate with you
21:11because they don't know you.
21:12And so they delete your email or they don't respond.
21:14And then people convince themselves
21:16that pitching doesn't work,
21:17because they craft these pitches
21:19in this very kind of narcissistic me, me, me way.
21:22However, if you flip this on its head and realize,
21:25look, okay, the brand doesn't care about me.
21:26Let me just remove my ego from this completely.
21:29You know what they care about, Sean?
21:30They care about their own initiatives, their own objectives.
21:34And in fact, that's what they have money for.
21:37They don't have money to pay random people
21:39that reach out with their hands outstretched saying,
21:41hey, we'd love to figure out a way to collaborate.
21:42They have money to, Toast has money to spread the word
21:45about their new AI features.
21:47I don't know if they have that.
21:48But I'm just saying like, that's what they have money for.
21:49They have a marketing budget to spread the word
21:51about all the AI tools that Toast now has, right?
21:54And so they, let's say they have a million dollars to spend.
21:56Your job now becomes doing research
21:59in advance of this outreach and say, okay,
22:01looks like they're launching this feature.
22:03Looks like it's important.
22:04I saw their director of marketing talking about it
22:05on LinkedIn or at a recent trade show.
22:08Let me reach out and say, hey, this looks amazing.
22:10I would love to help spread the word
22:12and move the needle on this particular initiative
22:14that you have in the following ways.
22:16I'll do this, this, this.
22:17I'll do this, this, this.
22:18Here's a little bit about my,
22:20so I'll kind of go into it in detail.
22:21So I call it my rope pitching method.
22:24So it's R-O-P-E.
22:25So R stands for relevant to a campaign
22:28that the brand is either currently running
22:30or has run in the past.
22:31O is that your pitch, O stands for organic,
22:35meaning that you can tie your pitch back
22:36to organic work that you've already published somewhere
22:39that illustrates that your audience or customers
22:41already have existing affinity for their brand
22:44or their industry or their product.
22:46P stands for proof, so you can show
22:47how you've helped others achieve results.
22:49And E stands for easy to execute when they say,
22:52oh yeah, this is kind of interesting.
22:53So going back to this Toast AI example, right?
22:57The R, the relevancy is this new feature
22:59that they're launching.
23:00The O is that you link to a specific episode
23:02of your podcast where you talk about the power
23:05of how restaurant owners can use AI in their business,
23:08right, so they know that you have credibility.
23:10The P is proof, so you say, hey, I've helped
23:13this other brand over here achieve results.
23:15And E is easy to execute.
23:16You're saying, hey, I'm gonna do five podcast insertions.
23:19I'm gonna do three Instagram reels.
23:20I'm gonna do boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
23:22Are you free on Thursday at 10 a.m. to talk about this?
23:24So that is the pitch.
23:26And so now it's much more of a positioning exercise
23:29where Toast, instead of deciding like,
23:31oh, can we find some money and some budget somewhere
23:34to pay Sean, no, it's like, oh,
23:35we've already got this budget here.
23:37We've got a million dollars.
23:38If we send 50K to Sean, then he'll help us
23:41move the needle on that, on this initiative that we have.
23:44And so this is the what do you say.
23:46The other thing that you asked about was like,
23:48who do we send this to?
23:49And so in fact, I actually have a page in the book.
23:52This was not intentional.
23:53Page 69, I have a chart here that is basically,
23:58the title of it is Job Title Targeting Matrix.
24:01So basically, I have this based on the scale
24:05of the organization, whether the zero to 15 employees,
24:0816 to 100, 100 plus, what are the types of titles
24:11that you should be targeting?
24:12So if you're targeting a small kind of mom and pop shop
24:15type company, yeah, there's probably only one person
24:19working in marketing.
24:19It's probably the director of marketing.
24:20That's the person who you'd wanna reach out to.
24:22But when you go for a much larger brand,
24:24a much larger company that has 100 plus employees,
24:27now they probably have different layers
24:29in their marketing organization.
24:31They've got VPs, they've got directors,
24:33they've got managers, they've got coordinators.
24:36Or they may have outsourced this type of strategy,
24:39the partnership stuff to an advertising agency
24:42or a PR agency.
24:43And so you just kinda have to start familiarizing yourself
24:46with the titles so that you can ensure
24:48that you have the best chance of success
24:49when sending this email.
24:51What have you learned with the work that you've done
24:54with your wife as well as yourself
24:55just about social storytelling, the evolution?
24:59Man, I mean, especially in the age of AI,
25:04storytelling is going to be one of the most
25:07prized commodities that you can hone as a creator,
25:11as an influencer, as a business owner.
25:13Because I think there's gonna be a very real movement
25:16towards humanism.
25:19Like people are gonna crave the human story,
25:22the human experience.
25:24When they even sniff that something might have been
25:26generated by AI, yeah, sure, a bunch of people
25:30won't be able to tell the difference, but some will.
25:31I have this theory that like right now,
25:33the platforms have a, require you to click a box
25:37if you used AI at all in creating the content.
25:40I think that there's probably gonna be a similar button
25:42that people, that the platforms have
25:45where it says it was made by a human.
25:46100%, I'm certifying that this was made by a human.
25:48And so I think that there's,
25:52this is the last thing that's gonna become commodified,
25:55I think, when it comes to building a presence
25:57on the internet.
25:59And you have a big event that's coming up.
26:03Obviously, by the time we publish this,
26:04this event will have already happened.
26:06But let's share the story about this event
26:10and why is it important?
26:12Why is in real life important to digital storytellers?
26:15Dude, I mean, I think that,
26:17so let's first talk about the evolution.
26:19So when I started, I started making YouTube videos
26:22because that was my, I'm a YouTuber at heart.
26:24Like that's kind of my, I learn by watching videos.
26:26So I'm like, well, if people wanna learn
26:27about sponsorships, I'll just make videos
26:29because that's how I learn.
26:30Then I got people saying, well, Justin,
26:32like I love these frameworks
26:33that you're starting to talk about.
26:34I wish I could like read a little bit more about them.
26:36And so I said, okay, let me repurpose the transcripts
26:38into blog posts.
26:39And then people said, oh, I wish,
26:41I don't really like wanna visit your blog all the time.
26:43Can you just like send this to me via email?
26:45And so I said, okay, let me make a newsletter.
26:47Then someone said, you know,
26:48I really wanna like learn more about this,
26:49but I wanna do it on my commute
26:51and I can't watch your videos.
26:52I said, okay, let me make a podcast, right?
26:54And so I kept doing this like content format permutations
26:59based on my audience and my customers,
27:01what they were asking for.
27:03And then I started thinking, okay,
27:04if I wanna have the biggest reach and impact
27:06on my audience and my customers,
27:08what's a big way in which people learn?
27:10Well, they read books, right?
27:11And so I said, that was why I decided to embark down
27:13the chapter of writing the book.
27:15And then this last thing, which is the in-person,
27:18I thought, okay, what's another big way
27:19that people learn in-person experiences, right?
27:22And so I am launching an in-person event
27:25called Sponsor Games in mid-March of 2025.
27:29Really this came from, dude,
27:30that like I've been going to in-person events
27:33focused around kind of the creator economy
27:34for about like over a decade.
27:36And every time I would go to these events,
27:38there'd be like maybe like one or two panels
27:42about sponsorships.
27:43And I was like, this does not make sense to me at all.
27:45Like this is the number one way
27:47in which my wife and I are making money
27:48as well as like pretty much everyone we know.
27:50Why aren't like half the talks about this, right?
27:52And so I kept thinking this for years and years.
27:53And so now that I've been educating creators
27:55over the last five years,
27:56I basically just decided like, okay,
27:58I guess it's gotta be me.
27:59It's gotta be me.
28:01And the way in which I'm approaching this, Sean,
28:03is very different than a normal event or conference.
28:05I want it to be outcome oriented.
28:07I want it to be transformational.
28:08So it's not, there's no panels, there's no keynotes,
28:10there's no workshops.
28:11I'm turning my-
28:12Why are there no panels?
28:13Come on, panels, transformational.
28:14Dude, I wanna fall asleep.
28:16Everyone's playing Candy Crush under the table
28:19at these panels.
28:20And I was like, okay, I basically made a list, dude,
28:22of all the stuff I hate about conferences.
28:24And I was like, all right, that's at the top of the list.
28:26I'm falling asleep, but I do it.
28:28And so also what else sucks, food.
28:31Food always sucks at a lot of events.
28:33So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go ball in on catering.
28:35I'm gonna, and so I basically like,
28:36I'm turning my eight-step sponsorship wheel framework
28:39that I talk about in the book into eight games
28:42that attendees are gonna play
28:43to learn and master these concepts.
28:45And so like the pitch game and the negotiate game.
28:47So role-playing, real-time coaching.
28:50I think it's gonna be amazing, man.
28:51And I just, I've wanted this event to exist for so long.
28:54And so we'll see, two weeks, T minus two weeks.
28:57That's amazing.
28:58Let's talk about trade shows.
29:00We have a big audience that goes,
29:01we go to the National Restaurant Show every single year.
29:05We go to show, I mean, we're at a trade show
29:07or conference pretty much once a month.
29:08But one of the things that we've learned
29:10and that we teach people is that it's a great place
29:13to develop deep relationships and potential sponsors.
29:16Literally right there at the trade show.
29:18Why is that so overlooked by creators?
29:22All of the decision makers go to these trade shows.
29:24I actually, a fun fact, I used to be in medical devices.
29:27So I actually used to go to all the trade shows
29:29for in the medical device industry.
29:31And so like they send a huge contingent
29:33of all of their major decision makers,
29:35both on the R&D side oftentimes,
29:37but also mainly on the marketing side.
29:39So pretty much everyone, you've got the coordinators,
29:42the managers, the directors, the VPs,
29:43they're all there, right?
29:45And their biggest priority is, number one,
29:49to assess the state of the industry,
29:52interface with key opinion leaders or the press
29:54or whatever industry it is.
29:57But also it's to forge relationships,
29:59it's to forge collaboration.
30:00So they're already there in the mindset
30:02of trying to make some stuff happen, basically.
30:06And so a big mistake, though, that people make
30:09when they go to trade shows is an in-person version
30:13of the terrible pitch that I shared earlier.
30:16They walk up to the booth and they go,
30:16hi, my name is Justin, and they just like word vomit.
30:19This is my business and this is what I do
30:21and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
30:22and it's just this overwhelming wall of narcissism,
30:25basically, versus going up to the booth
30:28and asking about them, asking about their brand,
30:30asking about their product, tell me more about this,
30:33tell me what's on the product roadmap,
30:34tell me the challenges that you're having.
30:35And so you spend the first five minutes
30:37of that conversation with that,
30:39then the natural segue is they're gonna be like,
30:42well, so what, tell me about what you do.
30:44And then now you can talk about
30:46how you can potentially collaborate and serve them.
30:48And so I think there's such a tremendous opportunity
30:51with these types of in-person shows,
30:54but you need to have a game plan going into it.
30:56How do creators go from free to paid?
31:01Man, so I think that this is the holy grail
31:05for a lot of people when they start building
31:06an online presence is they get excited
31:11about the prospect of getting free stuff in the beginning.
31:14Maybe you build an Instagram,
31:15you build a podcast, whatever,
31:16and that first brand or that company hits your inbox
31:19and they're like, hey, we're gonna send you this,
31:21you'll appreciate this, free wine fridge.
31:24I love wine, so I'm just like, send it over, let's go.
31:28I would like a wine fridge, let's go, right?
31:31And so that happens enough times, Sean,
31:35at least it did in the beginning for my wife and I,
31:37that it happened enough times where we were like,
31:39I feel like we might be kind of getting
31:41the short end of the stick here.
31:43We're having all these people commenting,
31:45listening, watching, and they're saying,
31:47oh, thanks so much, I never heard about this brand,
31:49or oh, I just went to the store and I got it.
31:51Thanks, Sean, thanks, Justin.
31:52And so eventually, I think you'll get out of this phase
31:55where you realize, you know what,
31:56it would actually be nice for me to recoup my costs
31:59of paying my podcast editor or my YouTube editor
32:02or my whatever, graphic designer, whatever,
32:04not only recoup my costs,
32:05but maybe make a little bit of money
32:07for all this tremendous effort
32:08that I'm putting out there creating content.
32:10And so what I teach in the book,
32:13in fact, I have a bunch of scripts
32:15where a brand will reach out to you
32:17and they'll say, hey, our product is expensive,
32:20so that should be enough compensation
32:22for you to post about it.
32:24Or hey, join our affiliate program.
32:26We'll give you a commission, 20% commission or whatever,
32:28if someone purchases this piece of equipment
32:31or whatever it is.
32:32And so what a lot of people,
32:33they tune all those things out
32:35because it's just like different versions
32:37of like, we're not gonna pay you.
32:39But what I talk about is that you have to be saying
32:41different things in response
32:43to all of those different scenarios
32:47rather than just kind of slam the door in their face
32:49and be like, no, never talk to me again,
32:50like I'm only accepting paid partnerships.
32:53And so it's this mindset of realizing
32:56that it's actually your job to educate the brand
32:58on why it makes sense to pay you
33:00and not just free product.
33:03Let's talk about affiliate marketing.
33:04How do you get the most out of affiliate marketing?
33:08Well, if you're a company or a creator
33:11or someone who's built up a presence,
33:14in fact, there's actually a lot of people out there
33:17who prefer affiliate type partnerships
33:20because they know that they'll actually make
33:22the most amount of money in the end.
33:24It's harder to make that call when you're starting out
33:27because you don't have as much certainty
33:29over how your audience or your customers behave
33:31when you talk about a product.
33:32And so in the beginning,
33:34I think it actually makes more sense
33:35to do something that I call a hybrid type partnership
33:39where there's a base upfront compensation component
33:43plus some sort of kicker on the backend.
33:44So the brand or the company or the vendor
33:46or whatever pays you 500 bucks, 1,000 bucks,
33:49a couple grand, whatever it is,
33:50plus 15, 30% commission for anyone
33:53that ultimately purchases or signs up for the product.
33:55And so I think that that actually can be
33:57a pretty value aligned compensation structure
34:00for both parties, ensuring that you're compensated
34:03for the time and effort that you are expending
34:05to actually create the content containing the promotion.
34:08And the brand also feels protected
34:12in that they don't have to pay you this upfront amount
34:15with no guarantee of performance.
34:17And so I think affiliate marketing can be pretty lucrative
34:19if you have your numbers dialed in as a creator.
34:22Why did you make the switch from agency to education?
34:26Dude, I'm having so much more fun
34:28doing the education stuff.
34:29Running an agency was exhausting, dude.
34:33It was a lot of fun and I learned a tremendous amount.
34:36In fact, all of the stuff that I learned from the agency
34:39informed how I educate people.
34:42And in fact, a lot of people have told me
34:43that that's why they feel as though the advice
34:46that I give around partnerships is so much different
34:48than other people in the past,
34:49is that most of it came just from the creator's perspective.
34:53Like, I've done a bunch of deals, here's what I've learned.
34:55And there's nothing wrong with that, no shade to anyone.
34:58But the fact that I ran this agency for seven years
35:01and I was in the boardrooms with these big brands
35:03and these big advertisers where they were like,
35:04hey, Justin, we don't wanna just pay you in April 5K, 10K.
35:08We wanna spend a million dollars across 200 people.
35:12What should the strategy be?
35:13What platform should we be on?
35:14What types of people should we work with?
35:16It's like a very different conversation.
35:18And so now that I've been educating people,
35:21dude, it feels so great, not only to educate them,
35:24but to tell them, hey, I don't wanna cut your deals.
35:27I'm not a manager, I'm not an agent, you can't retain me.
35:29I say, hey, you keep everything.
35:31I'll educate you, you keep everything.
35:33It just feels so much better.
35:35I feel so much more excited for people,
35:38other people's success than my own.
35:40It's amazing.
35:43What have you learned about the book process,
35:46self-publishing?
35:48Dude, well, I just passed 2000.
35:50Why didn't you get a sponsor?
35:51Copies sold.
35:53So dude, in the process, actually, in the process of that.
35:58Speaking of that, because I mean,
36:00this is literally, thanks, thanks, man, I appreciate it.
36:03My goal of the book is to get this
36:06in 100,000 people's hands in the next five years.
36:09And so if I think about how am I gonna do that in,
36:12that's really, there we go, plus one right there.
36:17If I think about how the heck I'm gonna do that,
36:20it's virtually impossible for me to do that on my own.
36:23So the first thing that I need to do
36:24is write a really dang good book.
36:26And I have done that.
36:27I feel very strongly that I've done that.
36:30But the next thing is like,
36:32what we talked about earlier is like,
36:33how do I insert this book into the conversation
36:35when people are having active issues with this,
36:37where this becomes the natural thing to recommend.
36:40But what I realize is that
36:42actually going through the process of trying to get,
36:45basically my mindset is like, okay,
36:47if I can, through grit, get this to 10,000,
36:51then hopefully word of mouth spreads
36:53to take it the rest of the way.
36:56But what I've learned is that
36:57owning that direct connection with my audience
37:02is the most important thing for me,
37:03which is why I decided to go the self-publishing route
37:06and be able to sell specifically directly on my website,
37:08because when people purchase through my website,
37:10Sponsormagnet.com, there's a little shameless plug,
37:13then I will get your email address
37:15and I'll be able to have you a direct connection
37:17and be able to talk to you,
37:19versus if you purchase it through other platforms,
37:20which you can, but it's much more important to me
37:23that I'm able to serve you potentially
37:25in other ways down the line.
37:27And on the topic real quickly of getting the book sponsored,
37:30that's another angle that I'm going to try
37:32to get to that 100,000 is like,
37:34how can I tap into brands and companies' customer bases?
37:38They have tremendous distribution as well.
37:40What if I could get them to do a custom version of this?
37:43I got their little logo on the cover art.
37:45Maybe there's a foreword in the book written by the CEO
37:47about the power of using their tool
37:49or their software program or something
37:50to help you get sponsorships.
37:52And they print 500 custom copies of this
37:55every time they go to a trade show
37:56and hand it out in the booth.
37:57So I get more distribution,
37:59the brand gets more credibility,
38:01and I get to impact more people.
38:02And so this is another big through line in the book
38:04is like, it's this mindset of creativity.
38:06How can you ensure that this is a win-win-win
38:09for everyone involved?
38:11Real quickly, tell me about newsletters.
38:13You said you're collecting,
38:14that was important for you to get the email address.
38:16You have my email address.
38:18What can I expect from the newsletter
38:19and why are newsletters still so powerful?
38:22Man, I have built up my newsletter
38:25to just over 34,000 people on it now
38:29over the last four or five years.
38:30And it has become the engine of my business.
38:33Because if you, let me just, quick anecdote,
38:35and it should probably put this whole conversation
38:37to anyone thinking about, oh man,
38:39I need to do an email list.
38:41Listen to this, okay?
38:42So I've got about 12,000 people
38:44that follow me on Instagram, let's say.
38:46And so when you click on the average post that I make,
38:51the last post that I looked at, I got a reach of 300, okay?
38:56And so that is, what, that's like a 2% engagement,
38:59like reach rate, right?
39:01Versus my email list where I have 34,000 people on there,
39:05my average open rate is between 45 and 50%.
39:09That's awesome.
39:10So you think about,
39:11you could make the argument on social media
39:13that like, okay, Justin, your content just sucks.
39:14Okay, fine, make that argument.
39:16But you could make that argument on my email list too
39:18that like my content sucks or whatever,
39:21but an average of 45% of those people
39:23are opening that dang email.
39:24And so it's just in my, like the email inbox
39:27is just a fundamentally different animal than social media.
39:32You're not beholden to the algorithms or the platforms
39:36and whether they deem your content worthy
39:38to show to your followers.
39:40Email is totally different.
39:41And so I think that there's just so much benefit
39:43in having that direct connection with your customers
39:45or your audience forever.
39:47That's awesome.
39:48If you guys are watching this,
39:50we do a live community show every Wednesday, every Friday.
39:53It's called Rising Tides Live.
39:54So it's a chance for you to be a guest on this podcast.
39:58We've been doing that for four years.
39:59It started on Clubhouse, it went to LinkedIn Live.
40:02Now we stream it on multiple platforms.
40:04So if you're watching this on Restaurant Influencers,
40:06go to betheshow.media slash risingtides
40:09and you can join the community.
40:11We appreciate you guys for following and for listening.
40:13Before I let you go, Justin,
40:15I need to hear about your personal tech stack.
40:17So are you an Android or an iPhone user?
40:20I am an Android user.
40:21I've got a Google Pixel.
40:23Yep, Android, baby.
40:24And everyone, this whole thing of like,
40:27oh, you're a green bubble.
40:28It's like, oh, come on, man.
40:30This is ridiculous.
40:31Is your wife an Android user as well?
40:32Yes, we're Android family.
40:33Android family, okay.
40:34Android family.
40:35You might be the first Android family I've had on the show.
40:38That's fantastic.
40:39I'll plant the flag.
40:40How many emails do you get a day?
40:43How many emails do I get a day?
40:45Probably like 200.
40:47200, how many of those do you enjoy reading?
40:5250, maybe.
40:5350, that's good.
40:5550's a good rate.
40:56Do you prefer phone calls or text messages?
40:58Phone calls, for sure.
41:00Do you leave voicemails?
41:02I absolutely do leave voicemails.
41:04I get shamelessly made fun of
41:07because I say the date and the time on the voicemail.
41:09Like, this is Justin.
41:10It's February 16th at 7 p.m.
41:12It's a holdover from the traditional phone line.
41:15That's fantastic.
41:17Do you use Slack?
41:18Or what do you use for internal communication?
41:20I do not use Slack.
41:21I use Google Workspace.
41:23Google Workspace.
41:24Okay, and what do you use for Maps?
41:28I use Google Maps.
41:29Google Maps.
41:30What do you use for music?
41:32I use YouTube music.
41:34YouTube music.
41:35What is an app that you use that you're ashamed to share
41:40that you use it as much as you do?
41:43Ashamed to share it?
41:44Oh my goodness.
41:47It's gotta be the Reddit app.
41:49Reddit is fun.
41:50Yeah, I've been a Reddit junkie for years and years.
41:53Give us a good Reddit thread,
41:55sub thread we should be reading.
41:57Well, the subreddit that I love
41:59is Partnered YouTube is a good one.
42:02That's like, you know,
42:04all people are talking about YouTube.
42:05And then, yeah, just like various niche subreddits
42:10related to influencer marketing, advertising.
42:12That's my jam.
42:14As somebody that's been a YouTuber,
42:15I love, restaurants are notorious.
42:19YouTube's just hard.
42:20YouTube's a platform
42:21that you actually have to build on YouTube.
42:24What kind of advice would you have
42:25for a restaurant that's getting started?
42:27Because most restaurants, they're heavy on Instagram,
42:29maybe on TikTok, but YouTube's,
42:32maybe they're doing YouTube shorts.
42:33What advice would you have for YouTube for restaurants?
42:37Don't make the show about yourself.
42:40Create a show where you interview
42:42all of the local creators,
42:43and you bring them in, you serve them food,
42:45and your restaurant is the backdrop to that show,
42:50and you become known as the place
42:52where you do this show with all the local talent.
42:54That's great, that's great advice.
42:57What's the best place for people
42:58to keep in touch with you?
43:00Yeah, if you wanna take a look at the book,
43:02it's Sponsormagnet.com.
43:04I've got a bunch of sick bonuses.
43:07Also, when you do pick up the book,
43:09including all those scripts I mentioned,
43:11and a sponsorship tracker template that I've created,
43:13pretty sophisticated in Notion.
43:16And so, yeah, we barely scratch the surface
43:18of what I cover in the book,
43:20and then I'm basically just creator wizard
43:22everywhere out there on the internet.
43:24That's amazing.
43:25If you guys wanna keep in touch with me,
43:26it's at Sean P. Wolcheff.
43:28I am weirdly available on all platforms.
43:31I am grateful, Justin, for you guys,
43:33for you joining the show, sharing the secrets.
43:35Like I said, we believe deeply
43:37that restaurants can become more profitable
43:39if they lean into media, into storytelling,
43:42and to do a lot of the things
43:43that you talk about in this book.
43:44I highly recommend the book.
43:46I read it in one day.
43:47I will reread it.
43:48We have shared it with our Rising Tide community
43:51and digital creators, especially if you're a podcaster.
43:53I think podcasters have a tough time
43:56understanding how to get brand deals and sponsorships,
43:59and it allows you to reframe thinking
44:01about how to get an actual sponsorship for your show.
44:05Dude, I appreciate it so much, man.
44:06Yeah, absolutely.
44:07Appreciate it, Justin Moore.
44:09As always, guys, stay curious, get involved.
44:11Don't be afraid to ask for help.
44:12We'll catch you next episode.
44:15Thank you for listening to Restaurant Influencers.
44:18If you want to get in touch with me,
44:19I am weirdly available at Sean P. Wolcheff,
44:22S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
44:27Cali Barbecue Media has other shows.
44:30You can check out Digital Hospitality.
44:32We've been doing that show since 2017.
44:35We also just launched a show, Season Two, Family Style,
44:38on YouTube with Toast.
44:40And if you are a restaurant brand or a hospitality brand
44:43and you're looking to launch your own show,
44:45Cali Barbecue Media can help you.
44:47Recently, we just launched Room for Seconds
44:51with Greg Majewski.
44:52It is an incredible insight into leadership,
44:56into hospitality, into enterprise restaurants
44:59and franchise, franchisee relationships.
45:02Take a look at Room for Seconds.
45:05And if you're ready to start a show, reach out to us.
45:07Be the show dot media.
45:09We can't wait to work with you.