India Today conducted a pioneering survey called Gross Domestic Behaviour, covering 98 districts in 21 states and one union territory, with responses from 9,188 Indians on civic consciousness, gender parity, and religious tolerance.
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00:00Get the pulse of the nation! India's first ever civic survey. Is a husband justified
00:24in beating his wife? Does an employer have the right to employ from only a certain religion?
00:34Is it okay to litter the roads? Is it okay to pay bribes? Should only male family members
00:44have the right to take the final decision? A survey where each state will be ranked on
00:51how it thinks and how it behaves. A barometer assessing India's civic sense, public sentiment.
01:04Decoding the social fabric of modern India. A deep dive into actions and attitudes shaping
01:16our society. A mirror to all our states. Where they rank on GDP, Gross Domestic Behaviour.
01:32The results will blow your mind. Expect the unexpected. This never seen, never attempted
01:43socio-civic survey. Only on India Today. Gross Domestic Behaviour.
02:13Hello and welcome. I'm Preeti Chaudhary. So why? Why is it essential to gauge the gross
02:22domestic behaviour of India? While we may have ways, means to measure economic growth
02:27of our country, and India is moving towards superpowered among that measure. India may
02:32be positioning itself to become the world's third largest economy with a projected GDP.
02:39Gross Domestic Product of $7 trillion or roughly estimated to Rs. 581 lakh crores.
02:46All of this by 2030. But, and there's the big but, its social fabric does not show the
02:53similar forward movement. And the making of a great nation is not just about economic
02:58power. With it there is a need to come a strong civic consciousness, social correctness, exemplary
03:06public behaviour and sadly, sadly while we are zipping on the economic highway, our socio-civic
03:11growth has been riddled with potholes. Whether we admit it or we don't. It's that one, one
03:17uncomfortable truth that could well prove to be that dark undertone. Our less than perfect
03:24civic conscience. To assess exactly where the country stands on that from the India
03:28Today group, in collaboration with data analytics firm How India Lives, embarked on a first
03:35of its kind, a pioneering survey across 98 districts in 21 states and one union territory
03:42asking 9,188 Indians, not about their income assets or even their politics, but about decency,
03:50empathy, integrity, gender parity, religious tolerance, a measure that we are now calling
03:58at India Today, their gross domestic behaviour. And on the basis of these questions, we've
04:04ranked each state. Once again, before we even get into the rankings, look at it as
04:09a mirror to our society as a possible mirror to your state and not as a way of one-upmanship
04:16that my state is better than yours. It's very possible some states have just been more honest
04:22than others. Let me introduce our guests. They've come from all walks of life and today
04:27will be with us giving their opinion on how India behaves. Tavleen Singh, author, columnist
04:32with us. Kushal Mehra is the host, the Karvaka podcast, Trisha Shetty, advocate, activist
04:40for gender equality, Dilip Cherian, communication consultant, image guru, Kamlesh Singh, he's
04:45a storyteller at Teentaal, he's in the studio with me, Kaushik Dekha, executive editor,
04:50India Today magazine. Before we get on to our first question, what we've done, viewers,
04:55we have asked 30 questions under five chapters. You can call them five banner heads, be it
05:01civic consciousness, public safety, this one is gender attitude and then we're going
05:07to also ask about religious tolerance, discrimination, how they look at that. Let's move to the chapter
05:15of gender attitude. Before I ask you the first question or I take you through the first question
05:21that was asked, I want to bring in Kaushik Dekha. Kaushik, there have to be many challenges
05:26with a survey like this primarily because a lot of us, you know, in principle will accept
05:32that yes, this is not the way of being, this is correct civic consciousness and answer
05:37in that regard, but really don't practice it when it comes down, you know, to everyday
05:43lives. This has always been the problem with surveys like this, that whenever you pose
05:48a question like, if you ask a husband, do you beat your wife, probably he would not
05:52say in public, even if he does so, that he does, he beats his wife or, or in certain
05:58cases that if you hear, if you ask people, mostly over 90% have said that, oh, it's important
06:05to send a girl child to, for education, but in a country where the prime minister has
06:11to run a program to encourage people, incentivize people to take their daughters to schools.
06:17So you know what they have said and what exact reality is, there is a variance, but
06:23the encouraging factor, the positive factor is that people know what is the right thing
06:27to do. Right. So the next probably challenge for the country as a whole is that we have
06:32to walk that path. You have to walk that path. So, you know, if you're going to be horrified
06:36by looking at a certain state, which thinks it's okay, you know, to beat their wives,
06:40then one must also take it with a pinch of salt. Possibly that state is just being more
06:44honest than the one which says that, oh, it's a terrible crime to do so. All right.
06:48With that, let's quickly dip in. And before I do so, Kaushik, one quick word from you.
06:52Were these questions when they were asked, were these in-person communication?
06:56Yes, in-person, in-person communication, no telephone interview, person to person. So
07:01and, and there is a, as you can see from the numbers, the gender division was equal almost,
07:0651-49% and rural-urban divide was also almost equal.
07:10Almost the same. All right. So with that, let's quickly dip into the first question
07:13that we asked under the banner of gender attitudes, how India views gender. Is a husband
07:20justified in beating his wife if she objects to his decision regarding household chores?
07:26So how has the entire India responded, the 20 states that we were talking of? 83% says
07:33no, a husband should not beat their wives. Just 16% says it's okay if the husband beats
07:38his wife if the wife doesn't agree with him. Let's look at the micro data in that. 98%
07:43in Uttarakhand are opposed to such kind of domestic violence. 31% in Andhra Pradesh says
07:50it's fine. They've backed the notion. Nothing wrong in husband raising his hand if his wife
07:54doesn't quite agree with him. Let's move on to the second question under gender attitudes.
07:59Should male members of the household have the final say in major household matters?
08:05This is how India views it at the cross domestic behavior. 69% say yes. 30% say no to that
08:14question. Look at the micro data in that. 75% in Kerala are opposed to male members
08:21having the final say in household matters. And look at the other part. 96%. Because 96%
08:30of UP thinks that's the case. Ultimately, the decision making lies with the head of
08:36the family and de facto, the head of the family will be a male member. You know, just look
08:42at that number there. The second third question that was asked should a woman be free to marry
08:48whomever she wants even against the wishes of her parents? 32% say yes. 67% say no. Out
08:59of it 67% in Kerala think women should be free to marry against the wishes of their
09:04parents. A whopping 92% in Chandigarh say absolutely not nothing doing the parents have
09:10to confirm only then a woman should pick her partner in marriage. Very honest some would
09:18think very very some the others would think should a woman be free the other question
09:22that was posed should a woman be free to make decisions about using the money she earns
09:27without requiring approval from male family members 69% of India 69% of India says of
09:34course it's her money she's made it 31% say no she needs to confirm with her family members
09:39to ask whether she needs to spend this money or where she wants to spend it. micro data
09:4391% in Kerala who oppose this question say women are free to handle their money with
09:50ever which they want. A whopping 70% in Odisha say women should take her family's approval
09:58before making any expenditure. Just let that sink in you know because you know it's interesting
10:05because look at the parity in terms of the states that think that it's all right that
10:10a woman should be beaten a woman should not make her own decisions the woman should confirm
10:15with family members before she marries. Once again it's a mirror to society it's not to
10:19shame and name a particular state. All right the other question that was asked should female
10:24members of the family be encouraged to take up a job outside their homes 84% of India
10:31said of course what's wrong with that let them take a job outside homes and 15% say
10:36no they need to be at home there is no working outside for women. micro data 98% you know
10:45it's very interesting because you know there are two pieces of data which we'll talk about
10:49later 98% in Uttar Pradesh are willing to encourage their daughters to take up jobs
10:55outside their home while 38% in Gujarat are opposed to this idea which is very interesting
11:03because on an earlier question when asked about women on who should take the final decision
11:07we was with what I was talking about the contradiction in Uttar Pradesh 96% in UP had said a male
11:14member will take that decision but in this regard whether a woman should work outside
11:19home 98% in Uttar Pradesh says that yeah she's free to take that decision understandably
11:2496% of the men have given them you know the liberty or the permission to do so as per
11:31this particular number. All right should other question that was asked should daughters in
11:36the family be encouraged to study or pursue education as much as their sons we still live
11:41in a country where money is spent more on the son's education and a daughter's education
11:46is an afterthought whether we like it or not however 93% of India says yes 93% of India
11:54says same amount of money should be spent on a daughter and a son it's only 6% which
11:58says nothing doing sons are more important than daughters break it down 98% in Odisha
12:04believe daughters have the same right to education while 22% in Gujarat don't agree with this
12:10notion 22% says nothing doing a son is more important ultimately. All right now let that
12:17sink in viewers let's get you the last final question which was asked should women vote
12:22for the same candidate as the male members of their family 51% say yes a woman should
12:28adhere to what the male members of the family want in terms of where to vote 48% know that
12:35she you know owns her own vote and she should go and cast it where she wants to microdata
12:4193% in Kerala want women to make their own voting choices a whopping 91% in Uttar Pradesh
12:48say women should vote for the same candidate as the men in their family well you know at
12:55least where voting is concerned women have you know sprung up a surprise or two in many
13:00states now a vote bank that doesn't quite follow gender stereotypes but having said
13:04that we put in all the questions there startling revelations before we actually tabulate the
13:11data and bring to you on where states stand in terms where it comes down to gender attitude
13:19from 1 to 20 I want to cut across to our guests this evening Dilip okay before you go okay
13:27Kaushik wants to give three data points before we cut across to Dilip Chherian go ahead because
13:31I would like to hear their views on that as we did a gender split 14% women 14% women
13:37respondents say that they are fine with husband beating wife 14% 14% 30% women say that they
13:45are not okay with women spending their money on their own they should consult the male
13:49members and then 43% women respondents they say that male members should take the final
13:55call in the household these three important points so these three important data points
13:59are essential you know Dilip Chherian when we look at these numbers because these numbers
14:03are astounding but then you know with what Kaushik also added there's a certain amount
14:07of social conditioning you've been bought up to believe that it is the male member who
14:11should take the final call you need to consult the main member before you step out of the
14:15house how do you look at it just in terms of what you see in the six questions that
14:21we asked and we are going to shortly release where each state ranks on this pretty it sounds
14:27as if we are a nation that clearly has a lot of transition to do I was at a seminar
14:34yesterday discussing the consequences of masculinities in politics and much of these figures are
14:42reflected in what women from the ground are talking about leadership roles outside the
14:49home about the right to vote freely etc so I'm not entirely surprised but as you said
14:57you know if India is on the path to economic greatness then society has it looks like at
15:06least the figures seem to suggest that we have a lot of catching up to do and more importantly
15:11I think that the interesting nugget at the end which is that the women themselves seem
15:17to have some reprogramming that may be worth considering as one of the aspects which may
15:24be because at the end of the day mothers are very often also responsible partially as as
15:31fathers for inculcating some of these values into gen next so we need to understand that
15:37gen next values are not just based on peer group understanding but also based on what
15:43the familial situation is so I'd say that there is cause for anxiety there's need to
15:50trace and track where these are coming from is it for example the societal structure in
15:56villages breaking down how much is that carried through into semi urban cities these are the
16:03issues that we need to go a little deeper to understand where India as a nation stands
16:08what is astounding here is that a huge chunk nearly 50% 48% of that chunk believes that
16:16you know the final decision-making body lies with the man it's okay for a man to beat his
16:22wife and they're okay to admit it in a survey yeah I'm not I'm not at all surprised because
16:29I've met educated women who are doing jobs and you know where women who have their own
16:35financial stability etc in India but they will say the final decision should be a man's because
16:41men have a better sense and I you know I'm constantly asking them why and these are women
16:47I'm talking about women I know who are independent financially who will not take a decision without
16:53first talking to their father brother if that is consult usually more than one man in many
17:00instances but I've never heard one of them say well let's consult another woman so you know I
17:07mean that's the truth and you know so I'm not at all astounded Prisha Shetty you want to weigh in
17:13on this because you know what for me to be honest because I've been going through the data in every
17:18other parameter what is right is you know very stark so they might still litter on roads but
17:24they will still at least on the survey you have 93% of them saying of course one should not litter
17:30here they're wearing it on their calf and that is both men and women who are actually wearing it on
17:34their sleeve and saying nothing wrong in that final decision body is a man you know firstly we are a
17:42country this doesn't surprise me and I'll tell you why we are a country of great dichotomies right as
17:46a country we are okay with seeing women in leadership positions when it comes to maybe in
17:51politics but if you see that in contrast in the corporate space we are not why does this not
17:58surprise me because as a country we have put an onus into sort of not looking at violence that
18:07happens within homes yes in this survey people have admitted honestly but they must have also
18:12been told that their names would be anonymous had you put a camera in front of them would they have
18:16responded dishonestly I fear not just coming back to the beating question the National Family Health
18:23Survey the last survey that they did very much corresponds to your survey in fact their studies
18:27was even more alarming in India based on that study out of every hundred women that they
18:32interviewed 45% agreed that a man is justified in beating the wife right in contrast it was 44% men
18:40who agreed that a man is justified in beating his wife so based on the National Family Health Survey
18:45as well women were an higher proportion believing that a man is justified in beating his wife and
18:51under which circumstance were they most justified in beating their wives if they showed disrespect
18:55towards in-laws and another alarming statistic was also 11 to 10% 11% of women and 10% of men
19:02believe that a man was justified in beating his wife if she refuses to have sexual intercourse
19:07with him so the problem is we're living in a country where the truth is we refuse to talk
19:13about violence within intimate settings within homes when committed by our husbands by our
19:19fathers by by our relatives because that goes into an uncomfortable territory if you just talk about
19:25Bombay a very populous city in 2024 the crimes against women went up to 12.8% and the crimes
19:34against children went up by 21% and a police officer said very honestly that 95% of cases of
19:41rape that the accused is known to the victim so till the time we don't have very honest conversations
19:48about how violence within home settings is not addressed legally where marital rape is still not
19:53a crime on the right on the form of education where we're still not talking about this right
19:59in terms of quality education and also thought even in terms of autonomy where women are not
20:04educated and as a society we're not educated that women should have autonomy over their body
20:09autonomy over their finances before we live decisions right i'm sorry i'm coming in we're
20:14just running you know short of time and we want to give up the whole list but i want to bring in
20:17kamlesh uh kamlesh when you're looking at you know the data it's astounding 67% of india says
20:23that a woman should not be free to marry 67% of the india actually admits free to marry whoever
20:29she chooses 51% says a woman should only vote where the male member is voting this is all across
20:34india you know i don't even want to get into the micro data of it all do you think it's bizarre or
20:39this is what india is see first of all i would like to congratulate and express that i'm glad
20:45we have started measuring gdb because gdp we have been measuring for long so we really do not know
20:54where we were 10 years ago or 15 years ago or 20 years ago i am sure looking at the society and
21:00people around me in different cities and states i think we have we are progressing
21:06what we'll have now we can measure next year or you know five years later what it means whether
21:12we are progressing or not but overall this is how we are we must remember that just seven decades
21:21ago we got independence we are a deeply patriarchal society and how the society is structured you can
21:28see it in the data that kerala because women participate in public life more than say uttar
21:34pradesh or bihar right they seem to be very progressive while in uttar pradesh you see a
21:41green signal that the men are saying that the girls are free to go out and work as long as
21:48we ask us we decide how to spend the money and who they vote this is not bad at all in fact
21:55because we do not know whether it was worse or better earlier you know you're spot on because
22:03you'd be you might be egregious to look at it you'll be appalled and then you say at least
22:06they're talking you know they're saying for what they actually believe that they think that they
22:11believe in it kushal how how do you how do you look at this i'm not surprised because uh i mean
22:16i get reminded of two particular surveys before this one was a pew religious attitude survey that
22:22was done in i think 21 22 and you know pew had shown i know people will not like what i'm saying
22:28but we had shown how overly religious india is as a society and i mean i'm sorry there is only
22:34one correlation and causation here that 75 70 plus of india is very religious and the answer
22:42lies there it comes from there i know people don't like it when i say this but it's actually
22:47i mean chapter and verse comes all cutting across all religions i mean they just give women a raw
22:52deal and and such an overly religious society is naturally going to have these attitudes
22:56and the other thing that you know is very interesting and it now kind of bears out
23:01last year somewhere in june karan basin and sujit bhalla had done this labor market
23:06participation survey i think the media missed out on that and you know india was the outlier on
23:11something very unique on time spent on child care where indian women especially spend around 70
23:18minutes compared to the entire oecd data it was like they're almost double of that and and a lot
23:23of answers for why india was the outlier in that labor participation and all those peripheral
23:29facts is actually now what you guys have shown so i'm glad you guys have done this survey because
23:34this is a standard attitude india is a society where women are given a raw deal so they're like
23:40i'm not surprised i'm honestly surprised as to how better it is it's actually considering how
23:45religious india is i think it should have been far worse you know depending on time you're going
23:49to try and take in a you know a quick comment very short but i want to before we do that i just want
23:54to take our viewers through because as shocking uh you know these results are like i said uh please
24:00take it from a lens of what we can improve as a mirror to our society at least there are people
24:05who are being honest on how a society functions instead of saying look i'm from kerala and i'm
24:10so much more cooler than you from uttar pradesh don't look at it like that so i just want to put
24:15out the tabulation from 1 to 20 on where each state stands purely on gender attitudes you know
24:21it paints a picture of a country caught between progress and persistent deep-seated patriarchy
24:28kerala emerges as a beacon of gender parity right on top of the ranking list while up languishes
24:34way at the bottom something that we've already discussed a look at the rankings clearly shows
24:39you on where india stands and sadly it doesn't paint a pretty picture kerala uttarakhand tamil
24:47nadu right on top assam gujarat uttar pradesh right at the bottom whatever state that you want
24:53to look at you can figure it out and where it stands on this metric i want to take in if i'm
24:59allowed just you know one quick word from all our guests on what's the way forward you know i'm a
25:05little disappointed that none of you have noticed that the problem isn't just patriarchy but the
25:09women women in india bring up their sons to think of themselves as better than girls right as far as
25:18i know it is really the problem isn't just men it is women it is the women yeah you're right you're
25:25right yeah it is we're not such a patriarchal society as you think it is women themselves
25:32who have participated who willingly you know do certain things that they should stop doing they
25:38should stop bringing up sons to believe that you know that they can go out there and you know rape
25:45other right you know not your sisters if they get you know not someone related to you but you know
25:50it's everyone has his fair game and let me tell you something in educated families there is this
25:56attitude i've met very few women who bring up their sons to be better human beings true but
26:05right but but you're right there because that's also deep-seated patriarchy you know this is this
26:09is a pressure i know you want to come in but you know just hold on to that thought inside but what
26:14is the gdp gross domestic behavior of the country we spoke of how india looks at gender attitude
26:22what is their gender attitude and now we are going to move towards on how they view religious
26:27diversity with a set of questions let's take a look question one which was posed does an employer
26:36have the right to decide not to employ people from a certain religion this question was posed to
26:449184 respondents and the gdb is 39 percent india says yes 60 percent says no let's break it down
26:56and micro data 88 percent in kerala oppose religious discrimination in employment opportunities
27:02while 51 percent in uttar pradesh supports the idea says it's okay if a person wants to employ
27:08a particular person from a particular religion why not second question that was posed do residents
27:16associations or housing societies rwas have the right to prohibit certain types of food
27:23such as meat beef in individual apartments or common areas 41 percent says yes absolutely
27:30this is all india viewers 54 percent says no the micro data once again kerala says nothing doing
27:3688 percent is opposed to any ban on food on the type in their particular localities what's also
27:43very interesting is 75 percent in uttarakhand backs the idea the other question are you
27:50comfortable with people or families from different religion setting in your village or
27:56area you okay with religious diversity in the area that you live in 70 percent of india responded
28:03with yes 28 percent said no micro data 91 percent in west bengal are open to having neighbors from
28:12different religions while 72 percent that's a whopping 72 percent in uttarakhand opposes the
28:19idea what is also interesting viewers this is a state that really doesn't have that many
28:23minorities at about just seven and eight percent seventy two percent of uttarakhand opposes the
28:28idea it also then gives you the political connotation of why did the uniform civil code
28:34the state's uniform civil code be introduced and accepted in the state so easily the other question
28:40that was posed should a man and a woman be free to marry each other even if they are from different
28:45religions 37 percent says yes 61 percent says no 90 percent in chandigarh are opposed to
28:53inter-religious marriages who would have thought that chandigarh would come out on top of that
28:58saying 90 percent of them do not want inter-religious marriages 94 percent of kerala
29:04supports them nothing wrong kerala coming in as a beacon of religious diversity now should a man
29:10the other question that was posed should a man and woman be free to marry each other even if
29:15they are from different castes 43 percent says yes and because it's you know worrisome troublesome
29:22just plain truth 56 percent of india says absolutely not don't marry in a different religion
29:28it should not be allowed once again 90 which is bizarre with what's happening because now
29:3491 percent of chandigarh backs inter-caste marriages don't marry outside religion marry
29:38inside caste marry inter-caste so no inter-religion inter-caste is okay with chandigarh
29:44while 84 percent in uttar pradesh is opposed to that idea clearly because i'm gonna just before
29:51we go to our guests you know what i'm going to quickly do so we can go to our guests freely
29:55is i'm going to tabulate the questions that were asked and put them in an order in terms of how
30:00each state behaved or responded when we spoke of religious diversity or discrimination
30:08india a land that clearly prides itself in diversity doesn't quite behave the same way
30:14the gdb cross domestic behavior survey has given out the details there you can see kerala emerging
30:21like i pointed out earlier as this beacon of inclusivity ranking number one while madhya
30:27pradesh languishes way at the bottom illustrating the stark regional disparities and social
30:33latitudes across the country kerala tamil nadu west bengal maharashtra right on top you have
30:39karnataka uttarakhand uttar pradesh madhya pradesh right at the bottom once again if you look at just
30:45this there is a stark divide that knocks out divide proverbial divide that we speak of
30:52at least in terms of diversity and discrimination you can see it right there quick questions uh
30:59kaushik were you expecting these results when you were conducting the survey
31:05i think more or less these are what we are so it was not surprising inter-caste and inter-religious
31:11marriages still it's very difficult in india and we see so many reports of talking about love jihad
31:18and also on other atrocities caste atrocities so uh we're not surprised and there was hardly
31:25any urban rural divide on this so more or less india whether rightly or wrongly they think alike
31:31when it comes to caste and religion and this discrimination this divide is so deeply entrenched
31:37i think it will take time to get out of that and before this someone had told about being religious
31:44in a country if you are a religious country then gender discrimination will happen or other forms
31:49of divide will remain i think uh we are being ritualistic we are not religious if probably if
31:56india had been properly religious then all the religions including our great hindu religion
32:01it teaches us to be compassionate and consider it to others and probably india would have been
32:07the best place to live in because if we go via scriptures and being religious and actually had
32:14become truly religious but yes india is very ritualistic we we do a lot of tamasha on the
32:20rituals around and get very obsessed about those things and i think this uh whole uh data points
32:26they uh indicate towards that only you know because it's never happened before it's that
32:30much more shocking because one would think and then you know kamlesh is right how bad was it
32:34a couple of years ago trisha shetty i want to bring you in on this because when it comes to
32:38discrimination be it gender or religion we've spoken about both the benchmarks india wears
32:44its discrimination on its sleeve you know whichever way one might accept it
32:51and why do you think that is it's because our political leaders have won their discrimination
32:55on the sleeve and we must have the tenacity to be you know honest if we really want to
33:00get to the root cause of it it's because in today's political climate we are seeing leadership
33:06um encourage discrimination on grounds of religion we are seeing leadership encourage violence
33:13or negate uh negate uh action being taken against perpetrators of violence on grounds of religion
33:20right we're also and i'm glad you're the fellow panelists spoke about love jihad and what sort of
33:27social uh attacks that has had to how how it has debased our social fabric and dynamic right
33:33the great replacement theory if you like about how religious minorities will take over
33:40and all of this fear propaganda media complicity it's all played a role we talk about whatsapp
33:45forwards we've moved to the space of fear rhetoric which has no logic what one must realize is when
33:52you talk on the grounds of fear and perpetuating fear it loses logic altogether right and then you
33:57can't negotiate on the grounds of logic trying to make sense of why does one state equate to the
34:02other or what is the logic behind it because this is devoid of logic and that is where fear
34:07perpetrates and spreads so well when you're taught by media when you're taught by political leadership
34:13and sadly even by judicial powers that may be that are meant to safeguard you know when because
34:18let's be honest our laws protect us against discrimination everything that you've listed
34:23is actually a violation of fundamental rights which is article 15 prohibition of violation
34:29sorry prohibition of discrimination of grounds of religion race and caste but when those uh
34:34violations of discrimination are not taken strict action is not taken against in the court system
34:40then there's another messaging that's been sent across on a societal level that it is okay to
34:44discriminate right okay all right kushal mera you know the fact is is uh and trisha has a fair point
34:52that uh the politics and even the media could be responsible for it and is responsible for it but
34:58is the society feeding off the politics and the media or is it actually the other way around
35:03can we completely uh you know beget and give away any responsibility that the society
35:09uh you know should uh hold in terms of discrimination be it on gender be it on
35:14religion and say it is the problem because it's the politicians and the politics that perpetuates it
35:19because inherently we possibly are a country which has been you know discriminating on religion
35:24and gender for eons yeah see on this one i have a slightly different take i think people make
35:30too much about it at the end of the day uh human beings are tribal from an evolutionary psychology
35:37perspective there is something called cultural homophily now i'm going to share something very
35:41interesting with you so this was uh the institute of family studies uh this was based on married
35:48adults age 18 plus uh and news american family survey july 2020 um only four percent of democrats
35:58are married to republicans in the united states of america so-called secular a mustafa you know
36:07secularism kabadda i don't know what to be well i think people tend to over overstate these things
36:13human beings are tribal human beings are always going to cling to you know birds of the feather
36:18flock together uh i'm a i'm a disbeliever right i don't believe in any natural deity or something
36:24like that now my my wife is one of those unique religious people who does not have a problem with
36:29that i know many marriages that don't work out because if one is a disbeliever and one is a
36:33believer what are you going to say people are bigots there no they're not bigoted essentially
36:38it's a natural human trait you tend to get attracted to people who think like you
36:42maybe
36:46so i think we have to be more nuanced i think these cookie cutter kind of a surveys especially
36:51asking these kinds of questions do not give an honest answer on an attitude towards the society
36:56that's just my point of view otherwise you're saying that you know 96 percent of democrats
37:01are bigoted because they refuse to marry republicans all right okay uh i've been saying
37:06i'm going to put out the top 20 in terms of states on where they stand when it comes down
37:11to discriminatory behavior where religion is concerned what do you make of it you know because
37:16it's interesting you can actually see a clear north-south divide we're going to put out the
37:20graphics there of the top 20 when it comes down to a division of states on where each state stands
37:29i hate to keep repeating myself but it is to do with the women kerala had women's education a
37:34hundred years before the rest of india the women in kerala are very very educated and they've been
37:41educated for a very long time in north india my grandmother was illiterate do you know and
37:49the only the only thing that they were taught were religious books but you know i mean i i take
37:55trisha's point about the political leadership having failed us but can i add that it's the
38:01religious leadership that has failed us do you know i mean we have the worst religious leaders
38:07in the world and they take huge advantage of helpless illiterate women and fill their heads
38:15with nonsense and you know i mean i i know educated women who get filled with nonsense
38:20so you know let's bring in the religious leaders and if you want change in india
38:24all of them have to change and all of us have to change it's something that we've got to agree upon
38:30but the religious leaders have been an abysmal failure
38:36kamlesh what do you make of what you see on your screens madhya pradesh uttar pradesh
38:40understandably a lot of it kamlesh also ties into politics uttarakhand the ucc yes you know
38:45all of it does tie into politics i'm not at all surprised actually because you know people who
38:51are used to living in a religiously diverse society tend to be more tolerant towards the
38:58other so you see that kerala is right and others who are not used to living with people who they
39:06do not know it's the fear of unknown it happens everywhere but i would like to differ with the
39:12kd
39:16the assam up up i am from jharkhand sorry doing fairly well anyway that that more religion
39:24religion was designed to actually regulate property rights at a time when there were no
39:30rules or there was no law and women were property till date we call beti paraya dhan hai
39:38you know she's looked at as property we are not i mean those days are not really in the past when
39:43women were sold so they were treated like property religion more religion means more
39:49discrimination against women and people of other religion uh anyway that's but what time was this
39:56survey done in chandigarh my mind is blown i mean i agree this honesty
40:05i agree it is supposedly a rich you know educated people of retired bureaucrats and army personnel
40:13i mean this is either either punjabis are without filter which earlier i said that
40:19in most questions they have answered with a lot of honesty really disappointing gender
40:24but they are very good okay kushal wants to make a point go ahead kushal so i'll give you the
40:30dichotomy if you look at tamilnadu right i was just looking at the national numbers tamilnadu
40:35is a fairly literate society i think the 80 plus of tamilnadu is literate they have the
40:42highest endogamy rates in india aka they don't marry outside their caste
40:48so i'll be very careful about these correlations about education and bigotry and education and
40:56lack of bigotry these are complex situations with tamilnadu is the most endogamous society
41:01in india they don't marry outside their caste or religion in that sense and they're very literate
41:07you know that's what we when we began we said either you're being very very honest no filter
41:12like we can see in punjab and or you know you are being politically correct or you're being very
41:18politically correct like maybe in tamilnadu west bengal kerala tavleen you wanted to come in yeah
41:24we're not talking about the necessity for literacy kushal we want education
41:30true 99 of the schools in india that where most of india goes uh there's no there's no education
41:39they come out without being able to read a novel they come out without really being able to do
41:44anything much with with math right so you know we're not talking we don't need literacy we really
41:49need education you know you're bang on and i'd like to end right i'd like to end with that but
41:55right before i'm going to take quick let's you know let's make it quick and sharp that's all
41:58the time that i have trisha shetty closing comments on what you see in terms of gender
42:02and what you see on how india views discrimination when it comes to religion i think that lean is
42:08spot on when it comes to quality education because we have seen statistics where people that uh have
42:15access to higher education um have a direct correlation to believing that they should
42:20men should not get away with uh committing violence against their wives so the three
42:25things i want to talk about very quickly safety i think if you want to move the needle forward
42:29towards the arc of progress we must talk about safety in three spaces right your homes the route
42:34to get to either a workplace or your schools for young girls as well as your school and the workplace
42:41these three spaces we must account for how are they safe on a systematic level second is education
42:46quality education how do you ensure quality education you need to remove barriers make sure
42:50that women have access to sanitation this is the second leading cause for young girls to drop out
42:54of school because they don't have access to quality sanitation and the third i think this is
42:59where media plays a huge role uh and i'm not just talking about you know the news media i'm talking
43:03about popular media films to television talking about autonomy of women and that refers to
43:09popular culture their finances and life decisions which will all lead to leadership
43:15right fair point okay very quickly kushal closing comments learn to travel meet more people
43:23follow a little bit less religion and just you know maybe eat some fiber man
43:31right uh would you want to come in i agree with trisha we must ensure that women feel safe while
43:38participating in public their public life is limited i mean you'll be shocked by the number
43:44of women who spend their lives interacting with only family and nobody from outside this needs
43:51to change and do you think that could also somewhere down the line uh you know filter
43:55through when it comes down to discrimination on religion grounds yes kashik i think you know
44:01because you because kashik has been a part of tabulating the survey and it's the cover of the
44:07india today magazine the gbb so kashik your entire journey of putting it together because you know
44:12we've done a lot of surveys mood of the nation uh you know where you look at uh political health
44:18or you know how our country is thinking in terms of dices where it comes down to uh politics and
44:23other economy this is different what's your biggest takeaway see the credit for this goes to
44:29entirely goes to mr arun puri because it's his brainchild but again coming back to the whole
44:35survey and everything i think uh religion we are probably mistaking the idea of religion what i
44:41meant to say uh if i uh say it in hindi word that the dharma right that whether we uh actually
44:48follow the righteous conduct now the righteous conduct could be different in different societies
44:52in different uh time so probably we should follow that indian ethos of uh following one's dharma
44:59and then the country will become a better place to live in and this is the purpose of this survey
45:04to show you look at our constitution because you have fundamental rights there are also
45:09fundamental there are 11 fundamental duties and those duties are mostly about
45:14doing the right thing for the country and i believe if we collectively follow that and
45:19that's what religion actually teaches us education you think is the key
45:26i do and i just want to say that my last comment is well done kerala and i'm so happy that i don't
45:33come from chandigarh punjab should never report over that wretched city it should be given to
45:38ariana right away oh god no no no we shouldn't end with that because this is very counterproductive
45:46to the survey that we were doing so let me just say this city or state you know let's all look
45:53at this as a mirror to society and not in a way of one-upmanship that my city or my state is way
45:59better than yours maybe that state or city was just being more truthful than yours let's leave
46:04it at that but education is the key i appreciate all of you for joining us you know we've you know
46:11actually a lot of unexpected uh data has come out of you know what we've looked at and we've
46:17been blown in up in in many ways where you look at how each state is looking at civic health
46:24public safety gender parity or religious discrimination but if these are the figures
46:29right now what was it earlier on it's going to be a survey that we're going to take through the years
46:34and hopefully we'll see a curve just like that the way our gdp is going the gdb will parallel
46:42that soon with that intent a quick break thank you all for joining us good evening