Prime Minister Mark Carney is almost through his first week of Prime Minister. So, how's it going?
He's already completed an international trip, had some interesting dealings with the media and is expected to call an election as soon as this weekend.
Host Cormac Mac Sweeney is rating the first week with Barry McLoughlin, President, TLC Transformational Leadership Consultants Inc.
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/26186565?utm_source=youtube
He's already completed an international trip, had some interesting dealings with the media and is expected to call an election as soon as this weekend.
Host Cormac Mac Sweeney is rating the first week with Barry McLoughlin, President, TLC Transformational Leadership Consultants Inc.
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/26186565?utm_source=youtube
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00:00Frequency Podcast Network, stories that matter, podcasts that resonate.
00:07We're almost one week in to the era of Mark Carney.
00:10It is my honor to respond to the Governor General's request that I form a government.
00:16And it's a solemn duty to serve as Prime Minister at this time of great consequence for our
00:23country.
00:24Carney, the former central banker, officially became Prime Minister late last week, and
00:30his first several days in office have been a whirlwind.
00:34There has been action to reverse a major policy from his predecessor.
00:38He's picked out a slimmer cabinet.
00:41He took off on his first international trip.
00:43He's been dogged by questions about conflicts of interest.
00:47He's had to deal with the Trump threat, planning a First Minister's meeting, considering a
00:52snap election, and he's been trying to keep his political opponents at bay.
00:57Once again, it's been less than one week.
01:01The agenda so far has been jam-packed, but how is Carney faring as a newly minted Prime
01:07Minister?
01:12I'm Cormac McSweeney, and today on The Big Story, I'm hoping to answer that question
01:17by speaking with Barry McLaughlin, president of TLC Transformational Leadership Consultants,
01:22a company that helps train politicians, executives, and many others in leadership and communication
01:28skills.
01:29Barry, thank you very much for joining us.
01:31My pleasure.
01:34It's about a week now for Mark Carney on the job as Prime Minister.
01:38Let's start off generally looking at what he's done.
01:42What has your impression been over his first number of days in office?
01:46Actually, I think he's exceeded expectations.
01:49I had predicted that he was going to do something internationally.
01:52I thought it'd be something to do with Trump.
01:53If Trump invited him, would he go?
01:55Turned out that didn't happen.
01:57But he decided to demonstrate, to create the perception of, I am the leader of this country.
02:04It's right away puts him in an advantageous position compared to Pierre Pogliep.
02:09So he flies across the ocean.
02:11He meets two of the major members of the G7, Macron, and of course, Starmer, and even
02:18brings on his way home, drops off at Nunavut for a very major announcement.
02:24So that was a really strong perception shaping first week.
02:30And there were bumps in the road, which we'll talk about, but at least I think he was able
02:33to hit the ground running or flying.
02:37And he was able to, I think, show himself as a leader.
02:41I was never one of the ones that thought he should instantly pull the plug and, and
02:44jump into an election.
02:45I felt he needed as whatever time he could get to demonstrate that he is the prime
02:50minister, put separation between him and Justin Trudeau.
02:53So that's something he seems to have excelled at in the, in those first days in a short
02:58time as prime minister so far, what about some of the challenges that he's been facing?
03:02What are the speed bumps he's had over the last few days?
03:06Well, I think he's always shown that he really is brand new to being a politician, how to
03:12answer reporters' questions, how to communicate succinctly, inspirationally in speeches, in
03:20debates, to manage the attacks on him.
03:24He needs a lot of work in that.
03:26It was, I remember Barack Obama saying when he first ran for president, he said, in
03:32retrospect, he said, you know what, it took me six months to learn how to be a national
03:36leader, six months on the trail.
03:39And I always have agreed with that, that you are just instantly doing it.
03:44You can be a bank, you can be the governor of two different banks around the world and
03:50still not be ever in that position.
03:52So he is learning as he goes, he's getting somewhat better, but you can see where he's
03:58not used to the personal attacks on his integrity.
04:00And this happened to him certainly over in London in the news conference.
04:05And, you know, the chippiness, the kind of defensiveness, the, you know, taking
04:09umbrage at the question.
04:11And this is from a reporter, I always say to people, we train how to handle news
04:14conferences, we're not even going to hear that reporter's question, they're off mic.
04:19Okay.
04:19So you're responding in a situation and then you decide to kind of go at her.
04:26This is obviously, uh, you know, uh, an awkward situation there where he begins
04:31to challenge, you need to look deep inside yourself.
04:34He said, Ooh, what a thing to say.
04:37Uh, you know, usually you say, uh, I disagree with the premise of your
04:39question, here are the facts and away you go.
04:42Uh, but he hasn't learned that.
04:44So I've had more people say to me, I don't think he said media training.
04:47I don't think he said debate training.
04:49I don't think he said speech training.
04:51And of course, as people that specialize in this, I tend to notice that right away.
04:55Uh, he does, you need training in this.
04:57And so he showed, boy, he's got more work to do.
05:01And just for our listeners, you're referring to a moment when Rosemary
05:04Barton of the CBC was questioning the prime minister about his previous, uh,
05:08private business dealings and assets and potential conflicts of interest.
05:13So aside from the reporter pushback that we've seen from him, do you think he's
05:19effectively answered or addressed those fundamental issues or has he allowed
05:24these gaps that, uh, essentially allow the issue to then snowball?
05:29Well, what he obviously felt was that I am complying with the ethics
05:34commissioner's rules, policies, guidelines fully, and notice he
05:37always ends it with point final.
05:39He did that, he's done that previously in debates and so on.
05:43Um, so it, you know, it, he doesn't want to go any further.
05:46Of course, everybody, I mean, I, I know enough reporters that they'll, I've
05:49had reporters say to me, listen, you know, they ask you how much you're earning.
05:53And I've actually said, uh, you don't expect to answer that.
05:55Do you?
05:56No, I just thought I'd ask.
05:57Uh, meaning that it doesn't hurt to ask, you know, how much is in that?
06:01How much did you earn?
06:02How much stock options do you own?
06:05Um, nobody really at his stage wants to reveal the dollar amounts
06:10and he's not going to go there, but he has to, but the problem of, of not
06:15quite, uh, giving us a very clear, uh, the stepping stones he took in this,
06:21the clear path he took, uh, he thinks that just saying that he's complying is
06:25enough and you can see reporters aren't satisfied with that.
06:28Now you'll never be able to totally satisfy them, but I think he has to be
06:31more clear, more clear on the timing of when the vote took place and what he was
06:36doing when, when, uh, Brookfield asset management voted to move their headquarters
06:42down to New York from Toronto.
06:44Uh, he didn't really, um, satisfy some basic things seem to be contradictory.
06:49So I'm surprised that he hasn't nailed down very clear point by point
06:54messages to get across in those issues.
06:56Mark Carney deciding as his first official action with his first cabinet
07:01meeting to get rid of the carbon tax.
07:04How important was that for Mark Carney in terms of electability
07:08in the next potential election?
07:10I think very important.
07:11Uh, he get, he had to get that monkey off his back.
07:13We never heard him making definitive statements.
07:16Now, now you're into the argument of the big emitters.
07:19Uh, he's going to keep it on them.
07:21And, and, uh, Pierre Paulieb is going to, uh, remove it.
07:25So there's, if you love those big emitters pumping it all into the ozone
07:30layer, great, Pierre Paulieb is your man.
07:33But if you really are concerned about that and even care at all about climate
07:37change, greenhouse gas emissions, and so on, then, uh, Mark Carney is saying
07:42I'm still standing up for that.
07:44But, uh, that's a very interesting thing.
07:46Are we really going to, is that going to decide the election?
07:48Probably not.
07:49But he knew it was a monkey on his back that he's always
07:51going to be on the defense about.
07:52And so he had to kind of clear the air, pardon the pun, but clear
07:55the air if he possibly could.
07:57Another decision that Carney had to make right off the bat was
07:59who's going to be in his cabinet.
08:00He decided to do a much smaller cabinet that he said would
08:04be more focused and efficient.
08:06Uh, but special interest groups have been expressing a lot of concerns
08:09about this, uh, saying that the lack of a dedicated minister for women,
08:14gender diversity, disabilities, or seniors is an issue.
08:18Did this strategy potentially backfire a little bit?
08:21Will it cause problems in an election campaign if, uh, some of
08:25these special interest groups feel they're not being represented enough?
08:28Well, of course he has, he can't do one and the other.
08:32He's got to decide, is this a lean cabinet, you know, for the
08:35campaign, for the immediate time?
08:37Uh, he chose that path, not the, you know, the ever expanding
08:41cabinet under the Trudeau years.
08:43As long as it was, you know, gender balanced, then it was fine.
08:47He took a very different approach and I think it showed that he
08:50is taking a different path.
08:52Also, um, I mean, I actually was at an event the other night.
08:55I met two of the new ministers.
08:57I swear, I don't even recall their names, like they were nobody
08:59that you would ever have heard of.
09:02Uh, they could become somebody, but in the short five or six weeks
09:05period, uh, that they're guaranteed to be a minister, uh, they're not
09:10going to be all that well known to Canadians.
09:12Uh, so I don't see that as the big cabinet announcement, whoever wins
09:17this election, that first cabinet that they have to then in effect
09:21re-announce, uh, will be the one to really measure, uh, what his priorities are.
09:26More on the big story with Barry McLaughlin, president of TLC
09:30Transformational Leadership Consultants in a moment.
09:33Now, I wanted to come back to something as well that, uh, you had touched on earlier.
09:37Um, the first trip for a new prime minister, traditionally speaking,
09:41is generally to the White House to signal, you know, the strong bond
09:45between our two nations, the US and Canada.
09:47However, probably not a big surprise to a lot of Canadians that Carney decided
09:52to take a different route and not take that trip South.
09:55Instead, he went to France and the UK, as you mentioned earlier, and those
09:59two countries also have strong links to the history of our nation.
10:02Did that strategy work here in the eyes of Canadians?
10:05What message was he really sending to voters and was he able to achieve what
10:09he set out to, uh, by visiting France and the UK first?
10:14Well, I guess when the, when the invitation wasn't forthcoming, and
10:18maybe he didn't ask for it either in the back channels, um, if you're going
10:22down there and not walking away with anything, it's not a good idea to
10:26If you're going down there and not walking away with anything, it's, you know,
10:30whoops, I guess he can't do much either.
10:32So you're running a risk of going to Trump who, by the way, won't suddenly
10:36slap us forward and go, oh, okay.
10:37Nevermind those tariffs.
10:38He's never going to do that.
10:39So he knows enough about him that it would be this wall pretty
10:44well that he'd be met with.
10:46And there might be a pleasantry to it, but, uh, he'd set up to step out on the
10:50White House lawn and he would have to really stand up for Canada strongly and
10:54clearly, he could still make something out of it, but, um, absent that invitation
10:59showing that, and I also thought the reason why he's doing Britain and France
11:03is that these are the two major markets that we have to quickly get our stuff
11:09over to rather than just south of the border, that's really an important
11:12part of his whole economic strategy.
11:16So it, it works on several levels for him and, you know, it shows
11:20him in largely his comfort zone.
11:21I mean, he spent seven years over there and he really, they do know him.
11:25He is a brand over there and a strong brand.
11:28So he felt he was in a solid, pretty safe thing to do, but showing leadership.
11:33And I think on that level, it worked for him.
11:36And, and what about the Trump card?
11:38Has he been properly saying what he needs to say about
11:41president Trump and the threats that we as a country are facing?
11:44Or is there more to be desired out of a message from a newly minted
11:48prime minister when we're facing this massive economic threat from what has
11:55long been our closest trading partner?
11:58I think I know him well enough to say he's a small C conservative guy, meaning
12:02that he doesn't just like to shoot his mouth off.
12:05He, he knows the limits of where we are right now.
12:08We're just before April 2nd when we're going to get
12:10hit with massive tariffs.
12:12It looks like there's Doug Ford saying we want to be
12:15first in line looking for exemptions.
12:17I wouldn't have advised him to use that phrase, by the way, sort of
12:19means we're going to be first in line begging for our, but anyway.
12:23I think with, with Mark Carney, he's saying just enough, you know, stand
12:26up Canada, stand up clearly, stand up strongly, fight back.
12:29You know, we're sovereign.
12:30He's doing all those right things.
12:31You can't do a thing really at this point, other than continue to beat the drum and
12:37make sure Canada is making its case.
12:39But I think April 2nd, right in the middle of this campaign will determine a lot on
12:45the response of Canada, response of Pierre Polyev and Mark Carney personally to the
12:50moves that, that Trump will make.
12:52And I think that's going to be the real determinator of that.
12:55Okay.
12:55So the biggest test on the U S file is yet to come from Mark Carney.
12:59Clearly.
13:00Trump also recently on Fox news was talking about the Canadian election
13:04saying that he would prefer a liberal rather than a conservative and then
13:08bashed conservative leader Pierre Polyev.
13:10I will point out as well.
13:11He didn't mention either of them by name.
13:13He mentioned Trudeau, but he didn't mention Mark Carney by name, didn't
13:17mention Pierre Polyev by name.
13:19What do you make of those comments and how that could potentially
13:22impact the view of either leader in the eyes of Canadians and the election?
13:27Well, Canadians have reached a point where they don't
13:28believe anything that Trump says.
13:30So he can say it.
13:32I noticed the social media, half the people on there are saying that he's
13:35deliberately doing that as a backhand way to support Polyev.
13:38They're saying, no, it's the opposite.
13:40So I don't think there's any firm outcome of that other than he's liable to say
13:44anything, given the time of day that he's being asked it, uh, we know he, he
13:49appears just, he doesn't like Canada.
13:51We, we, we, he claims he does, but really he doesn't.
13:54And he sort of, you asked him an hour later, he might tilt the other way.
13:58So I think Canadians don't hold a lot of value necessarily in each
14:02of the, uh, comments that he makes.
14:04I don't think it either helped or hurt either one of them.
14:06I think, you know, you could make a claim for it, but I, I'm not sure
14:09he tilted any vote in any direction.
14:12What do you think Mark Carney might pull the trigger on an election?
14:15Uh, it seems like all signs are pointing to sometime this week because, uh,
14:20parliament's set to return on March 24th.
14:23Do you think he might try to test the house or are all signs pointing in
14:27the correct direction that we will likely be heading to the poll soon?
14:31Well, given the fact that he's meeting the first ministers, uh, on Friday, I
14:36can't see him both doing that and walking over to Rideau hall.
14:39Uh, I sort of now thinking Saturday, um, you know, not a lot going on.
14:44He, the media there, uh, he lives around the corner.
14:49I walk over there pretty handily.
14:51Um, I think that, uh, it'll probably be Saturday because I had
14:55thought it would be Friday, but now that he's, he's using the
14:59full agenda of the week to get the, he'd love to walk away with a firm
15:03agreement by the first ministers, uh, on internal trade and so on.
15:07So I think that, uh, it would be Saturday.
15:10Some people say Sunday, but I'm sort of thinking Saturday.
15:12How are the other parties handling the new prime minister?
15:16Have Pierre Polyev as leader of the conservatives or Jagmeet Singh as
15:21leader of the NDP been able to pivot their messaging and their campaigns
15:25in the way that they need to, to move away from Justin Trudeau
15:29and focus now on Mark Carney?
15:31Well, starting with Pierre Polyev, I do believe that he was laying the, he
15:36pretty well saw what was going on and you could see there, you know, just
15:40like Justin, you know, Carney, just like Justin, uh, carbon tax Carney.
15:44They've been hammering him for months on end.
15:46So they don't, they aren't changing much of that, you notice.
15:49I'm a bit surprised that, um, like I watched him and Lori Gow with the laid
15:54off steel workers there, thanks to Trump's tariffs, um, and his, you know,
15:59slogan at the front there, right on, right on the podium was ax the tax.
16:03And I'm going, okay, this is in, in some kind of strange disconnect with the
16:09news he needed to make on what we're going to do with laid off workers like
16:13this, uh, when these tariffs start to roll through the economy, um, instead
16:18he's still going on and on about the carbon tax.
16:20He's trying to, he's trying to milk that dry.
16:23I have, I have noted for months that if this were a 2024 election, that'd be
16:29fantastic.
16:30Oh my gosh, go for it, go for it.
16:33But this is 2025.
16:34The world has changed.
16:35Uh, Canadians feelings, anxieties, aspirations, everything are deeply stirred
16:41up and they get, and he's made his announcement with the kind of pseudo
16:46signing in front of reporters of something that he was signing there.
16:50Uh, I knew that was coming for a year.
16:52He answered my question a year ago that we don't need the carbon tax for
16:55consumers, uh, to meet climate change.
16:58So that was to me, a very obvious thing he was going to be doing.
17:01I'm just very surprised that the poly of campaign has not made the
17:05gearshift necessary, um, that it still sounds very much like 2024.
17:12He hooks in a couple of things into it, but goes back.
17:15So I think that they need to make a full transition.
17:18And when you want to become prime minister, it's a double-edged sword.
17:21Yes, you have to attack your, especially the one now that's
17:25leading the polls, Mark Carney.
17:26You must attack him.
17:28You must undermine him.
17:29He's got very soft support.
17:30Only half of Mark Carney's voters are, are, are, are, are strongly supportive.
17:36The other half are kind of could change.
17:38Whereas Pollyev's vote, you know, two out of three of his voters are strongly
17:42going to vote for him regardless.
17:44So he's always had that extremely strong base, but he has to grow the base.
17:48And, and to me, the other side of that sword is let's see, let's
17:53see Pierre Pollyev as prime minister.
17:55Let's see what he would be like.
17:57Is he going to be prime minister for all of us, or is he still going to attack?
18:00And I think the divide versus unify thematic is very important here.
18:05He is a very, very effective attacker.
18:09You know, he, he was in the house.
18:11Nobody could touch him.
18:13He's got quips and lines that can cut down, like, but I think given Trump's
18:18personality, people really don't like that over time, especially the soft
18:23kind of voter that, that cares about the human dimension of the leaders.
18:28What kind of a person is he, would he be as prime minister?
18:32So it tried it with their commercials, you know, him and Anna and their child.
18:36And those are wonderful commercials, but in terms of his earned media
18:40, what he does on a daily basis, we're not seeing any sign of
18:44that side of Pierre Pollyev.
18:45I know him well enough to say, actually he has that side to him, but he sure
18:49is keeping it under wraps for whatever reason.
18:53And so when you see that going on and then, you know, let's, let's take
18:57from him Jagmeet Singh, well, he's just trying to get some oxygen.
19:00I mean, they haven't been this low, you know, since the year 2000.
19:04I mean, they're way underwater.
19:06They've got to somehow work their way back up to their traditional 20
19:10percentile kind of vote, which would have an impact on, on Carney's campaign.
19:15But I'm not seeing enough distinguishing factors in there.
19:18The liberals all we always knew would take ownership of the
19:22pharma care ownership of the $10 a day, you know, childcare.
19:26We know that when you go in, lock in with them, it's, it's, it's
19:31in the deal, they're going to get the credit and you're not.
19:34And that's exactly what's happened here.
19:35So trying to find a space in there is really not easy to do.
19:39Just curious as well, your thoughts.
19:41The conservatives have come out this week with a strategy for the election
19:46campaign that we haven't really seen from a major political party.
19:50And that is to fly and bus around the country without any media
19:55contingent in terms of, you know, the media coverage of the election.
19:59And for our listeners, usually what happens is reporters pay their way.
20:05So there's no added cost to the campaigns themselves, but we pay money
20:10to jump on a plane and follow the leaders around the country as
20:13they make these announcements.
20:14And the conservatives had said in the, in the name of cost cutting, they
20:18are not going to have any media members on their tour as a part of an election
20:22campaign, which is kind of surprising.
20:24What, what is your take on that and whether that will be good for the
20:28and whether that will be good for the
20:29conservatives or bad for the conservatives
20:31throughout an election campaign.
20:33It's not going to be good for them.
20:34Um, it, in fact, it sends the wrong signal,
20:37you know, uh, you'll do what, you know,
20:40people worried you're going to do what
20:41Trump did remove real journalists and, and
20:43bring in podcasters, uh, influencers into
20:47the, into the oval office, into the news
20:49conferences to replace journalists that have
20:52to account to somebody for the accuracy of
20:55what they're saying.
20:56Um, so that's a worry on that level.
20:59Secondly, I've never understood this.
21:01Pierre Polyev has terrific skills
21:04in dealing with media.
21:06There are very, very few questions he's
21:08ever been asked that he fumbles, doesn't
21:10know what to say about, gets caught out on.
21:13He is very, very skilled at it and why
21:16they're so protective of him.
21:18I have no idea.
21:20Uh, those are easy hits every single day.
21:23You step off the plane, you make several
21:25comments and you move on, even go to the
21:27back of the plane and do the same thing.
21:29So there are many avenues, not to hold big
21:31formal news conferences and everything else,
21:33but, but a little more flexible, informal
21:37style, which we do need to see more of him.
21:39So I'm very surprised at any other than
21:41they've always, conservatives have always
21:42felt, Stephen Harper, I think would demonstrate
21:44this, really never felt they got a fair
21:46shake from the media, but you know, uh,
21:50people don't, you don't want to come across
21:52as a whiner or somebody that doesn't want
21:56to face accountability.
21:57I think that it really doesn't really
21:59benefit them, frankly.
22:01Um, does it totally surprise me doing this?
22:03Not really, but I think it's, you know, I
22:06don't think they needed to do this.
22:07Let's put it that way.
22:09All right, Barry, we'll end it there.
22:10Thank you so much for your thoughts on Mark
22:12Carney, the election, Trump, all of this.
22:14We really appreciate it.
22:16My pleasure, Cormac.
22:17That was Barry McLaughlin, president of
22:19TLC Transformational Leadership Consultants.
22:23I'm Cormac McSweeney, and that was The Big Story.
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