At a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Sen. Josh Hawley (R-MO) and Sen. Katie Britt (R-AL) spoke to witnesses about efforts to combat CSAM.
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
Stay Connected
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
Stay Connected
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00I think we've got Senator Britt is on the way, so let me just ask another question or
00:07two while we wait for her to arrive.
00:10Mr. Schiller, if I could just come back to you.
00:12My understanding is that the Child Rescue Coalition plays a major role in developing
00:15new technology that can be used against online CSAM.
00:19Can you speak to that?
00:20I certainly can, Senator.
00:22Yeah.
00:23For the better part of 10 years now, the Child Rescue Coalition generates software for law
00:28enforcement for free so that it can expedite their work in combating child exploitation
00:34between peer-to-peer networks, live streaming technology, and everything else that's out
00:38there where our children are at risk.
00:40The technology gives law enforcement the opportunity to proactively go after these individuals,
00:46incredibly streamlining their process and minimizing the work they have to do.
00:52The beautiful thing about the technology is it works hand-in-hand with every other law
00:56enforcement technology to combat child exploitation.
00:59So when law enforcement receives a cyber tip from NCMEC, they will also run that information
01:04against information from the Child Rescue Coalition to see if offenders are in different
01:08places and make a robust and really wholesome investigation against the offender.
01:14Very good.
01:15Thank you for your terrific work, and thank you for your Senator's work.
01:17Ms. Saenz, can I just come back to you?
01:19I want to pick up something that you said in your opening statement about when your
01:24exploiter created all of those profiles in order to post all of that material.
01:31And you said that Facebook said to you initially that they would not take down so many of these
01:37different profiles.
01:38How long did it take before you were finally able to get this content and these profiles,
01:44which were generated, as I understand it, with the sole purpose of embarrassing you,
01:49shaming you?
01:50How long did it take to get Facebook to finally take those down?
01:54Thank you, Senator.
01:55At first, it took a little over a day until we were able to hone in on a personnel that
02:01we could directly contact at Facebook.
02:04And then any other time there were postings, we would contact that one specific personnel
02:10and they would be taken down within a few hours.
02:12But at first, it was a day, maybe longer.
02:15Well, I think one of the important things that this bill does additionally is it creates
02:20a reporting mechanism for victims, an independent board.
02:26Because what we've seen all too often with the companies, and this was your experience,
02:29is that people will go to them, report it, and oftentimes the companies, they drag their
02:33feet or they do nothing.
02:34They do nothing at all.
02:35And they say, well, you know, too bad.
02:37This bill creates an independent board that is able to receive these complaints, review
02:41them, and then order that this kind of material is taken down within 48 hours.
02:47And also to subject companies that violate this order to fines, including some restitution
02:52for victims.
02:53So your experience, again, is so instructive in this regard.
02:57Thank you for being willing to be here and to share it with us.
03:00And thank you for your courage.
03:01Senator Britt, we are ready for you if you are ready for us.
03:04Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
03:05I appreciate it and appreciate you holding a hearing on this important topic.
03:10Look, there is nothing more important than protecting our kids.
03:15When you talk about looking at what's happening to the next generation, I think it is imperative
03:20that we step up and do better, do more to make sure that we are safeguarding, putting
03:25up guardrails, calling things out where they are.
03:28And so I appreciate you all being here to discuss this important topic.
03:33I mean, the perils of the digital era are literally turning the American dream into
03:40a nightmare for so many families.
03:43Not only in my state, but literally across the nation.
03:45I wanted to start with you, Mr. Fisero, is that how you say it?
03:51Fisero.
03:52Okay, there you go.
03:54Look, I had intended to be in front of you and ask some questions when you appeared before
04:00the full committee last month.
04:01I went back and looked at some of the written testimony you submitted to the committee.
04:05And one anecdote in your testimony really struck me.
04:08You recounted that you were taking a half a mile walk on a beautiful day on the beach.
04:13And during that relatively brief period of time, you counted 67 children and teens on
04:19their phones.
04:21And you also said that then you came across a lost child who couldn't find their parent.
04:26You concluded with a statement that statistically at least 25% of those children will be victimized.
04:35In addition to reforming Section 230 and passing bills such as Stop CSAM Act, I am
04:41of the view that one of the things that Congress needs to do is ensure that social media platforms
04:46verify the ages of their users rather than relying on them to do that themselves.
04:54And we all know that typically what they say, you can't be on there until you're 13, but
05:00they never verify that.
05:01So that's just meaningless.
05:03I co-led another bill during Congress, the Protecting Kids on Social Media Act, that
05:07addressed this issue.
05:08Given your background and experience, do you have any views regarding how Congress may
05:12best approach the age verification issue?
05:16Yes, device-based.
05:18Your phone knows how old you are, right?
05:21So if I'm 10 years old and I try to download Snap and I try to get on it, it knows that
05:27I'm not.
05:28So even Raven's been working on text, but the solution is really device-based because
05:34we know that.
05:35And even parents today can't even understand like if parental controls, there's like 51.
05:40Each one has a different one.
05:41What happens if we were able to create one where a parent can press a button to prevent
05:46their kids and that information from going on?
05:48And it's not even a privacy issue, it's because the phone knows how old they are.
05:52So we need to-
05:53The phone knows how old you are because when we as parents, if you were to go and get your
05:56child a phone, you're saying we have to give that information when the phone is purchased,
06:00right?
06:01Correct.
06:03So the information exists.
06:04It's there.
06:05It's right there.
06:06It is already there.
06:07So then enforcing this, making these companies actually be able to not download an app, let's
06:13say, if you know that the child that owns the phone is under the age of that of which
06:18it should be available, shouldn't actually be that hard.
06:21And that kind of sort of seems that it would go into an app store.
06:24Yes.
06:25And the apps would actually talk to the actual store that it in, whether it be-
06:29So what you're telling me is we have all of the information we already need to help
06:33protect our children when it comes to age verification.
06:35We just have companies that are unwilling to do the hard thing that would be the best
06:41thing for our kids.
06:42Really, it's actually relatively easy.
06:44Yeah.
06:45Well, I guess the companies, they want the kids on their platform so they can sell them
06:50whatever.
06:53I think that's the challenge.
06:54So the technology exists, and not only that, something along that thing as a solution would
07:00actually help parents because parents don't understand every new app that comes in.
07:04So you give parents the ability to protect their children at home.
07:08I mean, to me, what's better than that?
07:11Yeah, absolutely.
07:14As a parent of a 14 and a 15-year-old, I say, amen, right?
07:18I mean, this is the exact thing.
07:21We've got to make sure what we know now versus what we knew when all of this began and then
07:28the rise in social media and the nexus to the lives of our children, we have a duty
07:35and an obligation to do something about that.
07:38And what I hear you saying to me today is these companies already have this information,
07:43and so it is a choice that they are making with regards to allowing these things to be
07:48downloaded on these phones.
07:49Yeah, absolutely.
07:50Okay.
07:51I think that's a choice that we should take away from them and make sure that we're safe
07:55getting our kids.
07:56I know I am almost out of time.
07:58Is there anyone else that has anything to add to that particular topic?
08:01Well, see, it sounds like we found a winner here, right?
08:06We figured it out.
08:07Mr. Chairman, thank you.
08:08I won't go over my time, but really appreciate you bringing light to this so that we can
08:12hold people accountable and we can safeguard for our kids their ability to learn and grow
08:19and explore, but to do that in as safe an environment as possible.
08:24So thank you.
08:25Thank you, Senator Britt.
08:26Thank you for your leadership on this.
08:27Mr. Pizzurro, I think maybe you have summed it up well.
08:30These companies, this is a business model.
08:32They want kids online.
08:33They want to sell them stuff.
08:34They want to, let's be honest, they want the child exploiters online also because they
08:39benefit from their business.
08:41This is really about profit at the end of the day, and until it is not profitable for
08:46these companies to host this abusive material online, they're going to keep doing it.
08:51Until it is not profitable for them to evade the reporting requirements, they're going
08:54to keep evading them.
08:55They're not going to be good actors until we force them to do it.
08:58And that's why the legislation we've been talking about today and the other issues that
09:02we've been considering, age verification, et cetera, is so vital because we do need
09:06to protect our kids.
09:07We do need to put power back into the hands of parents and victims, and I'll just end
09:11with this.
09:12To me, this is the age-old American story.
09:14Who's going to have the power?
09:15Is it going to be these mega-corporations who are not accountable to anybody, or is
09:19it going to be the people?
09:20Is it going to be the victims?
09:21Is it going to be the parents?
09:22Who's going to have the power here?
09:23This technology can work beautifully if victims and parents actually have power.
09:28Right now they don't.
09:30We need to give it to them.
09:31I want to thank again the ranking member for his tremendous work on this.
09:34I said, Senator, when you were out of the room, I really said a lot of nice things about
09:38you, Senator Durbin, so maybe we'll leave it there.
09:39Object to transcript.
09:43Thank you all for being here.
09:44Thank you for the witnesses for being here today, for your testimony, for your work.
09:48Thank you to the many advocates who are here in the room.
09:50With that, this hearing is adjourned.