On "Forbes Newsroom," Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA), a member of the For Country Caucus, slammed the cuts to USAID by Elon Musk's DOGE and the Trump Administration, and called out his Republican colleagues for not defending Congress's power of the purse.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lubas, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes, joining me now
00:08is Congressman Seth Moulton, a member of the Four Country Caucus. Congressman, I appreciate
00:12you coming in.
00:13Good to be here. Thanks for having me.
00:16I want to talk with you because I've talked to other of your colleagues about some of
00:19the impacts of Elon Musk's doge cuts, specifically to USAID, and we're seeing that in this story
00:26we're going to talk about today. Earlier this month, over 80 female students from Afghanistan
00:31faced what they've reportedly called a, quote, life or death situation after their scholarships
00:36to Stanje Rod, which were funded by USAID, were canceled and they would have to return
00:41to Afghanistan. Your office is saying that the State Department extended their scholarships
00:46through June 30th, but obviously that's not a full extension. What do you make of this
00:51situation? To start off the conversation, was it preventable?
00:54It's absolutely preventable. I mean, Elon Musk has no idea what he's doing. And obviously
00:59there's a lot of dissension between Musk and Rubio here because Rubio at least has some
01:04idea of the impact that these programs have. But the bottom line is that USAID saves lives.
01:11USAID, I saw on the ground in Iraq saving American lives when it was a huge tool that
01:18American troops like myself used to win over the Iraqi population. So this is an incredibly
01:24important program for our national security. It's not just about doing good around the
01:28world. Oh, there's a good argument for that as well. And in the case of these Afghan girls,
01:32I mean, these are brave, brave women, truly brave, revolting against these Taliban masters
01:40who would have them be subservient in homes for the rest of their lives, hiding under
01:44veils never to even have their faces be seen. They're actually pursuing an education, something
01:50that American troops on the ground made possible. And it could be a death sentence to have them
01:55sent back to Afghanistan.
01:57Congressman, you're a veteran. You're in the Four Country Caucus, which is made up of other
02:01lawmakers, bipartisan group who are lawmakers who served in Iraq as well as Afghanistan.
02:07You said that when you were in Iraq, you saw USAID save lives firsthand. So what's missing
02:13here from the conversation?
02:14What's missing here is accountability. It's the Republican Congress just fulfilling its
02:19constitutional responsibility to put a check on the executive because the rules of the
02:25Constitution are that Congress controls the purse. So if institutions like USAID that
02:30Congress has funded are to be cut, Congress has to vote. Congress has to have a say. And
02:37I know from talking to my Republican colleagues behind the scenes that they would not support
02:42Elon Musk's taking a chainsaw to the United States government. But they're not standing
02:47up. They're not putting a check on the administration, which is their responsibility to do. And for
02:52all the rest of us in Congress who who don't have the power of the majority, you know,
02:56we don't control the speakership. We can't call votes ourselves. It's extraordinarily
03:01frustrating that we are not allowed to do our constitutional duty as well.
03:07You mentioned earlier in the conversation that this also hosts some national security
03:11concerns. What are yours?
03:14I have a long list of national security concerns with this administration, starting with the
03:19fact that they are cozying up to our biggest enemies around the globe, being soft on China,
03:26being appeasing Vladimir Putin. I mean, you literally using Kremlin talking points as
03:33they denounce our ally Ukraine fighting for its freedom in the Oval Office. I mean, this
03:38is truly unprecedented. And these Afghans that we are trying to rescue from the Taliban's
03:45draconian rule, there are allies as well. In many cases, thousands of of of Afghan troops,
03:53soldiers, translators who served alongside us, brothers in arms. And remember, when Republicans
04:00were so quick to criticize the Biden administration for the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan,
04:05they used that same term, brothers in arms. Well, now these brothers in arms are being
04:10abandoned by the Trump administration, abandoned to a regime that wants them dead. That's not
04:16the way you treat allies. That's not the way you treat people who put their lives on the
04:20line, not just on not just for Afghanistan, but for the United States of America.
04:26You mentioned the summer of 2021. There was widespread criticism of the really chaotic
04:31withdrawal from Afghanistan. There was criticism, as you said, that we were abandoning our
04:36partners in Afghanistan. Is this a case of us again abandoning our Afghan partners? And
04:42what can Congress do about it? Let's be clear. These women are going to school because of
04:47America. We're the ones who said girls and women, you should go to school, too. It's
04:53the right position, but it's because of our presence in Afghanistan that they were inspired
04:57to do so. So, yeah, we are turning our back on our allies when we then abandon them, when
05:03they try to try to get an education and seek some freedom from the crony and Taliban rule.
05:09So we do have to stand up for them. And what I've heard is that the Trump administration
05:13is now working on another travel ban, even more expansive than the travel ban from Trump's
05:19first term. And he's going to include Afghanistan on the list. That means that our friends and
05:25allies who served alongside us, who veterans like myself have been working for years to
05:30rescue from the Taliban, are going to be shut out and many of them will be killed.
05:35Well, Maker, as a member of Congress, how imminently are you expecting to see that travel
05:42ban that's even more, as you said, expansive than his first term's travel ban?
05:47I don't know. But the irony is that when Trump goes around and bans people from coming to
05:51America from countries like Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen, he's banning the people who are our allies.
05:59It's people who leave these evil regimes that want to be on our side. That's why they're getting
06:04persecuted. That's why they have to give up everything they have back home to come to a
06:09free country like the United States of America. Donald Trump just doesn't get this. Remember,
06:14he dodged the draft to avoid serving in Vietnam. So he's never been on the ground in a war. He's
06:19never had to ask local allies for help, for help understanding the population, for standing
06:25alongside him in a gunfight. He's never understood what it means to be a refugee, to be someone who's
06:31trying to escape an evil regime and come to a country like America. So the Trump administration
06:38just doesn't get this. And what's most frustrating is that veterans, veterans who have served our
06:43country honorably and understand how important it is to save these allies, they're not standing up
06:48to the Trump administration. You've got a lot of Republican veterans serving in the White House.
06:53You've got Republican veterans in Congress who are privately decrying what Trump is doing, and yet
06:58they're so scared. They're so scared of Donald Trump, this draft dodger, that they won't say
07:03anything publicly. That is shameful. Why do you think that is? Because I've talked with some
07:08members of the four country caucus, Democrats and Republicans alike. They've said privately they can
07:13have fun with each other, also talk and make and try to come up with bipartisan
07:19legislation here. What are those conversations like in the four country caucus? And are you
07:23speaking about those members of Congress when you say privately they say one thing about President
07:28Trump and publicly they say another? When I talk about Republicans who privately say one thing
07:34about Donald Trump and publicly say another, I'm talking about the majority of Republicans in
07:39Congress, because they know that so much of what Musk and Trump are doing is unconstitutional.
07:47It's against the law, and it's certainly against the will of Congress, and yet they're just so
07:52scared of Donald Trump. I don't know. They're so scared of losing their jobs, getting primaried by
07:56him, having Musk put in a ton of money, that they're afraid to speak up. This really is starting
08:01to look like a dictatorship, an authoritarian regime where political dissent is not allowed.
08:08It's time for some political courage among Republicans to just say publicly what they're
08:13saying privately and what they know is the right thing to do. What do you think about political
08:18courage when it comes to your own party? Because last week you said you voted against the continuing
08:23resolution to put some pressure on Elon Musk. We're talking about USAID cuts that were because
08:29of Doge, and Elon Musk is the face of Doge. Do you think that Democrats who voted for the continuing
08:35resolution, do you think they aren't doing enough to put pressure on Elon Musk and the administration?
08:40Look, I personally disagree with that vote. Someone asked me recently,
08:44if you were in the Senate, Seth, how would you have voted? And the answer is very simple. I would
08:49have voted exactly the same way that I voted in the House on exactly the same bill, which is no.
08:55Now, you're talking to someone who's been willing to cross party lines to vote to keep government
09:01open in the past, including many times when it meant bailing out Republicans from their own
09:06extremists who wanted to shut the government down. But this is a different time. We need to do our
09:12duty in Congress and we have very few levers against this administration and the chainsaw
09:17that Musk and Trump is taking to this government. So we've got to stand up and this is a place where
09:23we can hold our ground. I disagree with Schumer and the Democrats who voted with the Republicans
09:28to bail them out. Their argument would be that then that chainsaw could run more rampant if the
09:34government was shut down. Was the government shutting down? Then would you rather see that?
09:40I never want to see the government shut down. But if that's what we need to do to force a
09:44negotiation with Republicans, because eventually, you know, they're in charge. Trump is in the White
09:50House. Republicans control the Senate in the House. They're responsible for keeping government
09:54open. So it would have forced a negotiation. And you know what? We might not have gotten much,
09:59but maybe we would have gotten something. And that matters right now when so many lives,
10:05so many jobs, and frankly, just the American economy is on the line with what Donald Trump is
10:12doing. I have you just for one more question. As you noted, Donald Trump is in the White House
10:19and the women, these Afghan women reportedly wrote a letter to aid groups saying, quote,
10:24we have fought very hard to get out of their hands. We won't be living anymore if we have to
10:28go back to Afghanistan. I know there's there is good news. The State Department said that their
10:33scholarship was extended to June 30th. But what is your message to the Trump administration here
10:38when it comes to this situation? My message to the Trump administration is don't abandon our allies
10:44and don't abandon the veterans in America, Democrats and Republicans who are fighting
10:50to save our friends. Congressman Seth Moulton, I appreciate the conversation.
10:55You are welcome back anytime. Thanks very much for having me.