Telangana Chief Minister Revanth Reddy has admitted to a severe cash crunch in the state, stating he lacks funds for capital expenditure and development projects, blaming the previous BRS government for leaving behind a large debt.
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00:00Good evening and welcome, you're watching the NewsTrack, I'm Rahul Kumar.
00:04The freebie reveree is coming back to bite.
00:08Telangana Chief Minister Revanth Reddy says he has no money for capital expenditure, no
00:12funds to spend on the development of the state.
00:15The BJP says, I told you so.
00:18Revanth Reddy though blames the BRS company.
00:21The fact is Telangana is in a financial mess and other states in India too seem to be walking
00:27down the same perilous path.
00:30Where does that leave India's development and how can we pull back from this reveree
00:34culture?
00:35That's my top focus on the NewsTrack.
00:39Cash crunch cripples Telangana.
00:45Big admission by CM Revanth Reddy.
00:52Chief Minister admits difficult to pay salaries.
00:58BJP mocks Rahul, Khata Khat model.
01:08Guarantees making Congress states pay?
01:15Freebies, good politics, bad economics?
01:19Big focus on NewsTrack.
01:22It's good politics only in the short run.
01:25In the long run, there's a hefty bill which no state has the capacity to pay.
01:31Before we get into our big story, let me take you through the headlines.
01:34Intelligence Chief Dilsi Gawad meets Prime Minister Modi and Defence Minister Rajnath
01:41Singh in Delhi, raises the issue of Khalistani terror and seeks for justice in talks between
01:49Gawad and the PM.
01:53High drama in Chennai over an alleged Rs 1,000 crore liquor scam.
01:58Top BJP leaders, including state BJP chief Annamalai, detained by cops.
02:03Modi government to bring a Waqf bill after Eid in Parliament.
02:10Muslim outfits protest in Delhi.
02:11AIIMS Chief Ovesi joins the stir.
02:17Maharashtra Chief Minister wows crackdown on the glorification of Aurangzeb.
02:22Cops erupt across the state demanding the removal of the Mughal ruler's tomb.
02:31Sensex sees a relief rally, settles 341 points higher, nifty above the Rs 22,500 mark.
02:38Surge driven by gains in financial stocks and positive cues from Asian peers.
02:52Telangana Chief Minister Revanth Reddy has admitted to a cash crunch in the state and
03:07says he cannot pay salaries to government employees.
03:11The BJP has slammed Reddy and the Congress, saying that this is the financial profligacy
03:17of the Congress party and their irresponsible actions which have brought the state of Telangana
03:23to this perilous condition.
03:25Take a look at this report.
03:31The Telangana government is facing a severe cash crunch.
03:36Chief Minister Revanth Reddy recently admitted the situation so grave, his government is
03:41unable to pay salaries to employees.
04:06Chief Minister had made a similar claim at the India Today conclave where he hinted at
04:10financial crisis and called for a national debate on freebies.
04:33The opposition has accused the Telangana Chief Minister of wasting public money.
04:57The BJP has blamed Rahul Gandhi.
05:00The party spokesperson claimed the leader of opposition is busy holidaying in Vietnam
05:06while all his states are facing a financial crunch.
05:09Welfare schemes are also draining other states like Himachal Pradesh, Karnataka and Maharashtra
05:16sparking a debate on the viability of freebies.
05:21With Abdul Basheer, Bureau Report, India Today.
05:29It was at the India Today conclave that Revanth Reddy triggered the freebie debate.
05:33He admitted that the state's fiscal health was worsening and called for a pan-India discussion
05:38on freebies being doled out by political parties.
06:04Chief Minister is telling us that you realised only after you became Chief Minister that
06:08you can't pay for your guarantees.
06:10Not guarantees, repayment of loans.
06:13I'm not saying that I'm not going to pay for guarantees.
06:16I'm not able to repay for my guarantees.
06:18But Mr. Reddy, the charge is exactly that.
06:21By raising the kind of debt that you're raising, you're looking to pay your guarantees through
06:25that.
06:26And I'll give you some figures.
06:27Now, the situation of the state is where the positive balance for all 100% days in 2014
06:33is now at positive balance in less than 10% of the days.
06:36Now, there is a clear, enormous fiscal deficit.
06:39And I'll give you more.
06:40You've already, I think, pledged, correct me if I'm wrong, 50,000 crores in 2024 budget
06:46for your guarantees.
06:47Alongside, your own Deputy Chief Minister has said that you're raising, what, 80,000
06:51crores as market debt.
06:52How does that work out?
06:53So, what do you want to do, Mr. Preeti, the way the race is going on, we have to race
07:00ahead.
07:01There's a slogan, speed thrills, but kills, isn't there?
07:04Now, Modi Ji has given guarantees in Delhi.
07:07Nobody has asked Modi Ji any questions.
07:10Modi Ji, you're against guarantees.
07:13Then why are you giving guarantees in Delhi?
07:18But you admit, Mr. Reddy, fiscally, it's not prudent.
07:36This guarantee business, rewri, guarantee, whatever you might call it.
07:48So, you think there should be a national debate on this so-called rewries?
08:02Yes, definitely, definitely.
08:03Instead of one nation, one election, instead of delimitation, instead of other things,
08:08we have to discuss on this.
08:09We don't get any money to invest on capital expenditure.
08:13I'm sorry to say, I'm not able to invest every month, 500 crores, not even 500 crores,
08:18I'm not going to spend on my capital investment.
08:27He's holding a mirror to the face of those who thought that rewri culture could see political
08:34parties through.
08:35The Congress has led this, other parties co-opting and following.
08:38Now, Revanth Reddy says he has no money for capital expenditure, no money for infrastructure
08:42development projects.
08:43Is the rewri roost now coming back to bite the Congress?
08:48And is there a way forward?
08:50Can we pull back from this rewri culture or is it already too late?
08:54Joining us for a Congress perspective, I have Mohan Kumar Mangalam, National Spokesperson
08:58of the Congress Party, with us on this broadcast from the BJP, Istuhin Sinha.
09:03Since the BRS is being blamed by Revanth Reddy for the level of public debt in Telangana,
09:10for a BRS perspective, I have Krishank Mane, and somebody who actually understands a thing
09:15or two about government figures and government revenue and deficit is S C Garg, former Finance
09:20Secretary in the Government of India.
09:22So, thank you.
09:23I want to go across to Mohan Kumar Mangalam.
09:25Mr. Kumar Mangalam, now for the Telangana Chief Minister to turn around and say that
09:30he doesn't even have 500 crore rupees for capital expenditure and no money to spend
09:34on infrastructure projects in Telangana just seems like a very massive cop out.
09:40You promised the people of the state that there would be multiple guarantees that will
09:44be delivered.
09:45You are being unable to deliver on some of them.
09:46Some of them you delivered, some of them you are unable to.
09:48And now you are basically saying we have no money.
09:50We can't build new ports.
09:51We can't build new roads.
09:53We can't build new bridges.
09:54We can't build new public infrastructure because we have no money.
09:58Rahul, I wouldn't characterize some of the things, the manner in which you have.
10:04To begin with, I wouldn't say that Mr. Avinth Reddy said anything against the guarantees
10:10or that blamed the guarantees for not having enough funds to invest in infrastructure.
10:14In fact, he went out of his way to prove his work.
10:17He went out of his way to say that it was the seven odd lakh crores of debt left behind
10:21by the BRS and servicing that debt is the reason why he is having a cash crunch in the
10:26government right now.
10:27Now, as far as what you characterize as a freebie versus what you see as justified welfare,
10:34that also is a question that needs to be discussed.
10:37If you look at lakhs of crores that the government of India lost in the corporate tax cuts since
10:412019, would you characterize those as freebies?
10:43No, but that's not the point.
10:44That's not the debate we are having here.
10:45Your party made some promises.
10:47Just one second because you are going off on a different tangent.
10:50I am just trying to draw you to the debate, sir.
10:52Did you hear Mr. Revan Reddy say that he wasn't going to implement the guarantees?
10:57In fact, I heard him reaffirm that he was going to implement the guarantees and he is
11:01looking for places in the state's balance sheet to make sure.
11:04He said he has no money for public infrastructure projects.
11:07Hold on.
11:08He said he does not have enough money for capital expenditure.
11:11I heard that.
11:12And that's what I am trying to tell you is that the guarantees are investment in human
11:16capital.
11:17That's also capital.
11:18It's all a matter of perspective.
11:19Rahul, we are not the first country to implement cash transfers.
11:22They have been used the world over to target billions of people and have effectively lifted
11:27people out of poverty, have got behavioral change in certain ways like keeping children
11:32in school.
11:33Brazil, Mexico, Kenya, Ghana are some of the countries I can tell you.
11:36The questions we need to ask is how do we fund these things?
11:39Is it okay for states which have very, very, you know, meager finances to be able to fund
11:46these things on their own?
11:47And it's not only Congress states.
11:48Maharashtra, as you know, promised in the election and then now has backed down from
11:52their scheme.
11:53They have reduced the amount that they are actually giving in cash transfers.
11:57Madhya Pradesh also did not have much of an infrastructure investment.
12:01So, we have multiple states recognizing that we need to give cash transfers to the poor
12:07to alleviate poverty, to ensure that we can do some sort of demand stimulation.
12:11No, no.
12:12I think Mohan Kumar Mangalam, as is quite understood…
12:14The state's finances are strained.
12:16No, as is quite understandable, you are trying to downplay the extent of the challenge that
12:21the state of Telangana faces because your chief minister has pretty much come on public
12:26forum and said he has no money for capital expenditure because his state's finances
12:31are stretched.
12:32He has also said he has no money to pay dearness allowance to government employees and to pay
12:35their salaries.
12:36That's the extent.
12:37And you are giving a very generic, long-winded answer to a very specific problem.
12:41The point is, it is the job of the incumbent state to run the finances.
12:47You may have inherited what you did, but ultimately you will balance the books in a way that you
12:52are able to ensure that DAS, salary, public welfare infrastructure developments all happen
12:58without saying we don't have money to be able to do this.
13:01Mr. Kumar Mangalam.
13:06No, Rahul, and that's exactly what he is saying when he is saying that he might have to delay
13:09some salaries, when he is saying that don't ask for an increase in DA this time, like
13:12I give you one every year to the government employees.
13:14So, he is making those calls.
13:16And those are the calls every state is going to have to make now in order to ensure there
13:20is some demand stimulation.
13:21I am stretching the argument to go beyond that and say that the centre, while giving
13:25free grains, seem to believe that it has abdicated the responsibility to the poor in this country.
13:29That might not be enough.
13:31For example, the most successful cash transfer program in the world, which is from Brazil,
13:35was heavily funded almost entirely by the federal government there.
13:38So, those are the questions that we need to ask.
13:40And that's why Mr. Ravindra Reddy said in your conclave that there is a conversation
13:44that we need to have with everybody in the room about this.
13:47It wasn't about competitive politics.
13:49It was about if this is the need for the hour, how are we going to get to a place where state
13:53and centre together can come together to fund.
13:57You know, but that's really not a plausible argument because before you spend, before
14:01you say…
14:02That won't be a perspective, Rahul.
14:03That will be your perspective.
14:04No, no, no, sure, sure, sure.
14:05I'm engaging in a debate with you to say that you're saying, okay, I'll spend Rs.500,
14:09but you have only Rs.100.
14:10Before you make the promise as a politician going to people asking for votes that you'll
14:14spend Rs.500, you surely need to see how much you have in your wallet and you won't say
14:17you'll spend Rs.500 when you have Rs.100 and later say, oh, I can give you this Rs.100
14:21but now I can't build roads because I have no money for capital expenditure.
14:24Modiji, please help me.
14:25And that's clearly what we're seeing happen.
14:26Just one second.
14:27Stay with me.
14:28I don't think…
14:29I'll allow you to make a quick point and then we'll move forward.
14:32Yes, go on.
14:34I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but I'm saying that every state, including
14:37Madhya Pradesh as well, which had this sort of welfare scheme, and I'm going to stick
14:41with calling it welfare and not freebies, has had to reduce some portion of expenditure
14:45in another part of the budget.
14:46Okay, so let me put that question to Tuhin Sinha.
14:47Tuhin, here's the point.
14:48There was a time when Prime Minister Modi very aggressively attacked the Revdi culture.
14:53You know, that's when the BJP would have claimed that it has a moral high ground on
14:57the issue of freebies.
14:58However, Madhya Pradesh, Haryana, Delhi, Maharashtra, have shown that BJP is doing
15:05pretty much the same thing.
15:06Now, we're already seeing from Maharashtra attempts to pull back on some of the promises.
15:10When I was in Mumbai recently, there was talk of some other schemes being curtailed to be
15:15able to make funds available for the new schemes that were announced in the elections.
15:19So, frankly, the BJP is not much better than the Congress on this score, and therefore
15:24you don't, if you'd stuck to the Prime Minister's conviction on Revdis and freebies,
15:29you would have said, I told you so.
15:31The problem is you buckled under populist pressure and now you have no moral high ground
15:34to stand on.
15:39Well, good evening, Rahul.
15:40Good evening, everybody.
15:41It would be very unfair to compare the BJP states with the Indy Alliance states because
15:46fiscal profligacy, anarchy and recklessness have become synonymous with all, you know,
15:52Indy Alliance state governments.
15:54So, when Telangana CM says he doesn't have money to fund basic schemes or infrastructure
15:59development, this is the fourth state, fourth state where you have heard the CM say that,
16:05Karnataka, Punjab and Himachal being the other three states.
16:09And if you look at the, you know, the debt to GDP ratio of Punjab, it stands at 47 percent
16:14of Himachal, it stands at 38 percent.
16:17The debt of Telangana stands at way above 7 lakh crore.
16:21On the other hand, when you talk about BJP government, I completely agree that freebie
16:25was not the BJP culture.
16:27We took a detour in the last couple of years because at the end of the day, to be very
16:31honest with you, you need to win election to make the necessary changes, to bring about
16:36the necessary changes in the country which we are committed to, you know, which somebody
16:40like Rahul Gandhi will never understand, who's got used to losing elections after elections
16:44and now, you know, he promises something which he cannot deliver.
16:48When it comes to Karnataka, you know, it's about priorities.
16:51Let me put it this way, it's more about priorities.
16:54At a time when Karnataka's borrowings for the first quarter of 2025 between January
17:00and March is expected to be, is estimated to be around 40,000 crore, which is roughly
17:063,500 crore every week.
17:08What is the priority of the Karnataka government?
17:104% reservation, you know, 4% contractor's reservation for Muslims, 1,000 crores for
17:18Muslim colony development, CM.
17:20So, I think it's about priorities.
17:22If in Maharashtra we have curtailed certain schemes, I think it is very timely.
17:27We are committed to fulfilling our promises, but we have taken a detour to ensure that
17:32fiscal discipline and fiscal prudence is maintained, which, you know, unfortunately the opposition
17:38states are incapable of comprehending and understanding.
17:40Now, Krishanth Pane, essentially the only plausible fig leaf of an explanation that
17:47Revant Reddy has is that the BRS government misled the public about the state of public
17:54finances in Telangana.
17:56That the book showed that the level of public debt in the state was about 3.5 lakh crores.
18:02When he came to power, he discovered it's actually closer to 7.5 lakh crores and therefore
18:06because he has to pay back more than double the debt that he imagined he would have to
18:10pay back, which is why he is struggling to find money for infrastructure and struggling
18:14to find money to live up to some of the promises he made in terms of guarantees.
18:18How do you explain that, Krishanth Pane?
18:20Rahul, one, it's an excuse and an escape route.
18:24Number one, any state, any debt or loan they raise, definitely are answerable to institutions
18:31like Reserve Bank of India or the Comptroller Auditor General.
18:36You cannot hide the debts and the numbers.
18:38And according to that, debts, he has spoken on Rajdeep's show only that it was 3.5 lakh crores.
18:45But more than this, it actually reminded me, Rahul, the 29th November 2023 show where
18:51you and Nagarjuna, your colleague, actually interviewed in a conclave to Revant Reddy
18:56and specifically asked that how will the Congress government ensure the implementation
19:03of these guarantees with numbers for which Mr. Revant Reddy said that Telangana's revenue is there.
19:09We can definitely give the salaries.
19:11We can ensure the implementation of these guarantees.
19:14So now how suddenly the learned then parliamentarian, today Chief Minister and all his colleagues
19:21where cabinet ministers earlier too, do not have the basic knowledge of the finances.
19:26And number one, in just 15 months, now if Telangana government for 10 years,
19:32KCR's government has done 3.5 lakh crores.
19:35Let me quote Eco-Rap report of the State Bank of India.
19:40They've quoted Telangana as the second top state sharing with Madhya Pradesh
19:46for CAPEX expenditure, capital expenditure.
19:49Telangana was known for it, for infrastructure.
19:52But in just these 15 months, where has your 1,58,041 crore loans gone?
20:00Where have you spent them?
20:02Because you say loan waiver.
20:04The chief minister says 21,000 crores were spent.
20:07The finance minister says only 8,000 crores actually reached to the farmers.
20:12In the entire year of 2024, the right to bandhu which was changed into right to barosa,
20:182024 Congress government did not give it.
20:21Even now it is not completely delivered.
20:24Your promises are gone for a toss.
20:26Be it 2,000 rupees pension raised to 4,000, that has not happened.
20:30Women 2,500 has not happened.
20:33Why shouldn't we question that this is same replica of Himachal Pradesh?
20:39The fact is that the loudest warning noises have come from Himachal Pradesh, Karnataka and Telangana
20:49and all happen to be Congress ruled states.
20:51I want to go across to Subhash Garg who'd be delighted that this debate is finally taking place
20:55and this revereed culture is coming back to hit these parties.
20:58But do you think that now that, you know, and I saw Mohan Kumar and Mangalam
21:02try and downplay the seriousness of the threat saying we'll find some way of pushing through.
21:07But in what we heard from Revanth Reddy, it cannot get more desperate than this.
21:11He says that he has no money to spend on infrastructure, he has no money to pay salaries,
21:15he has no money for dearness allowances because it's all going in the money that he's already committed to paying.
21:21Do you think this will lead to a pullback or do you think nahi hone wala, it'll continue like this?
21:26And they'll continue to keep adding up to the debt in these states?
21:30See Rahul, what is going on in the country for last couple of years is
21:37that the states remain constrained in their total expenditures as they have been for last many years
21:45and their fiscal position overall has not worsened.
21:50But the composition of expenditure is undergoing massive change
21:57after the preference of almost every political party for giving these direct benefits
22:04instead of spending on the CAPEX or the other public expenditure.
22:09That is what is going on in the country.
22:11Let me just explain.
22:13Telangana is in the focus today and I must say that Mr. Revanth Reddy has been honest in admitting
22:22and saying what the state of the finances is.
22:25It is the Revdi culture which you are debating.
22:29The Revdi culture in the recent times actually started with Telangana again
22:34when the Raytu Bandhu scheme was brought in in 2018.
22:38But that was not only one state.
22:41It was followed by Odisha and the government of India came up with the biggest Revdi of that time,
22:48the PM Kisan Yojana, which promised 6000 rupees to every 10 crore farmer.
22:54Now can I pause you to ask this question?
22:56Revanth Reddy in that interview we did with the Conclave says,
22:59I thought that the level of public debt in the state of Telangana was 3.5 lakh crores.
23:03It's actually 7.5 lakh crores.
23:05Can 3 lakh crores rupees of public debt be kept hidden from the state's books
23:10or is that just a very lame excuse from a CM under fire?
23:14See I don't know why did he use these numbers because these numbers are not actual numbers
23:20reported by the Reserve Bank of India also.
23:22Incidentally, Telangana has been, despite its expenditure on Raytu Bandhu and others
23:30and also on CAPEX, especially in the irrigation side,
23:34the fiscal deficit to GDP, which is the measure which we take
23:39as the constraint which the state is facing about its finances.
23:44No state is ever bankrupt.
23:47It is the constraint of total available resources which need to be taken into account.
23:52And on this measure, in last five to six years,
23:56ever from 2018 except 2021, Telangana has never exceeded 3% to GDP ratio,
24:06which is what we consider prudent, irrespective of the government in power.
24:10No, but you're saying that instead of spending on productive resources with a high multiplier for growth,
24:14they are now spending more on wasteful means with less money,
24:18as the CM himself says, for spending on capital expenditure.
24:22Rahul, this also needs to be debated in a dispassionate way.
24:27Okay, go on.
24:28Telangana has been spending enormous amount on irrigation expenditure over last 20 years.
24:35Sure.
24:36But is that more productive than paying to the farmers, the Rajtu Bandhu Yojana?
24:44I think that needs to be debated, discussed.
24:47If you take it that way, so irrigation benefits.
24:50Definitely, it benefits in raising the agriculture productivity.
24:55But if you actually analyze that how much of the expenditure goes into raising productivity
25:01of a smaller amount of hectareage and the per hectare cost which you incur,
25:10which you can take as a proxy for the per farmer benefit cost,
25:14and what the Rajtu Bandhu provided for the farmers into much larger scale.
25:21No, so let me ask you the question differently.
25:23We've seen three very loud voices of financial display from Sukhu in Himachal Pradesh,
25:28Siddharamaiah in Shivkumar in Karnataka and from Chief Minister Revanth Reddy in Telangana.
25:34Are Congress states doing worse in your view?
25:37Or do you think that all states are going down the same financial slope
25:41and it's equally dangerous everywhere?
25:43This is again a very different kind of situation.
25:47There are some states like Punjab for example, Kerala for example,
25:51which have been for last 30 years fiscally stressed.
25:54For the policies which they adopted elsewhere, for example, Punjab suffered because of that free power
26:01and also the security related issues.
26:04So Punjab has been fiscally stressed for ages now.
26:08It's not the new one.
26:09But Karnataka, Telangana and Himachal.
26:12Let us take Karnataka, let us take Tamil Nadu, let us take Telangana for that matter and Andhra Pradesh.
26:20Andhra Pradesh was in opposition states until sometime.
26:23Andhra Pradesh in last 10 years has been far more fiscally imprudent, badly managed.
26:30Both Mr. Chandrababu Naidu in its last term overspent.
26:37It went beyond spending what was available.
26:40It borrowed outside the government, which actually the government of India at one point of time had to come down upon.
26:47Because you are borrowing outside the budget, off budget and burdening the state.
26:52I have been working for Andhra Pradesh for sometime.
26:56In 2021, I saw the kind of stress which it was facing.
27:01Let me pause you to basically question Tohin Sinha because what's very clear from Subhash Gargan here
27:05understands state finances much better than anybody else.
27:08That this is not a Congress alone problem.
27:10Yes, the problem may be acute in Karnataka, Telangana and Himachal Pradesh.
27:14But this is a problem in all manner of states and they are all going down the same financial trajectory
27:20which is very dangerous for this country.
27:22You want me to respond on that?
27:26No, I want Tohin Sinha of the BJP to respond.
27:28I tend to agree with you Rahul because if you look at the union budgets of the Modi government over the last 11 years,
27:38in the worst of situations there has been unparalleled emphasis on keeping the overall fiscal deficit at manageable levels
27:46and in fact at very moderate levels.
27:48So for a government which has put so much emphasis on fiscal prudence,
27:54for it to allow this kind of fiscal profligacy which the country has seen in different states in the last 4 years or so
28:02was certainly not something which we would have liked.
28:04But like I said, my assessment is that in the next 2 years, this entire freebie culture will end.
28:11Aam Aadmi Party had been one of the biggest contributor to it with what they did in Delhi
28:16and then what they promised in Punjab which they could not fulfill because till date
28:20the promise of Mahila Samman Yoshna in Punjab which they made 3 years ago has not been fulfilled.
28:27So I believe with the decimation of Aam Aadmi Party, much of the freebie culture is anyway
28:33and with what the congress states are witnessing, they would realize that they have bitten more than they could chew.
28:38So it is anyway going to be on its way out.
28:42It's a question Mohan Kumar Mangalam of mindset.
28:44The Prime Minister's mindset was, Revdis are bad, we need to pull back.
28:49He came under pressure which is how in states like Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra,
28:53they doled out some schemes which the Prime Minister just in terms of his fiscal instinct was opposed to.
29:01However, Rahul Gandhi's instinct is khata khat, 10,000 rupees, 15,000 rupees, abhi aayega transfer.
29:06You know it is the messaging from the top which is the messaging which percolates to the ground.
29:12It is this khata khat culture which is coming back to bite political parties now.
29:16Coming back to bite Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh as well if that's what you want to call it.
29:22Now let me just respond to Tuvin Sinha's wired allegations about fiscal deficits in congress running states.
29:28The highest running fiscal deficit states are Andhra Pradesh, Punjab, Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Maharashtra.
29:34And by the way Tamil Nadu is one of the most developed states and is growing at most twice probably what the rest of the country is.
29:40So even if you look at deficit as a percentage of GDP, Andhra Pradesh and Punjab top the list in terms of running deficits.
29:48So please don't say that this is a congress state only problem. Rahul as far as you are concerned with
29:53trying to determine whether Mr. Rahul Gandhi's frame of mind or Mr. Modi's frame of mind is better for the country.
30:00I won't even go down that path. I'll just say that your basic assumption which is that the money multiplier for infrastructure investment is greater
30:09and will help us propel the economy forward has failed in the last 10 years.
30:13This central government has made huge investments in infrastructure.
30:17You need to tell that to Rewan Threatty who is telling this country he doesn't have money for public infrastructure.
30:23Sir there are global economic studies which determine very clearly what spending by the government has the highest multiplier on growth.
30:35Rahul I know I am not denying the fact that that's what conventional wisdom says.
30:45But I am also saying what you are continuing to assert is in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary.
30:51Which is that despite the 10 years we have not had an increase in private investment.
30:56GST has not gone up. We have not had an increase in consumption. In fact it is a reduction in consumption today.
31:03Which you can ask anybody in the FMCG business that is worrying everybody.
31:07If it wasn't the case the Prime Minister or the government of India would not come out with a massive tax cut.
31:12And as I am sure you are aware is rationalizing GST so that indirect taxation burden as well is reduced.
31:20So everybody today in India thankfully is on the same page when we say that consumption requires a demand stimulus.
31:27Krishanth Pane we are hearing from the Congress they are looking to double down and upturn economic theory.
31:32Saying that they can spend their way out of this problem by putting more cash in the hands of voters.
31:38In the hope that it is politically beneficial and also beneficial for the economy. Krishanth Pane.
31:44Rahul there is a larger threat Rahul. If the Chief Minister the Supreme of the state himself shows the dark side of Telangana.
31:52Of his own state. Who will come and invest? Who will come and do business?
31:56If you project wrong figures just to gain some political points.
32:01Double up figures which are not mentioned by the Reserve Bank of India.
32:04Then definitely Telangana will be shown in a bad light. Number one.
32:08Number two. Earlier when he was questioned about these guarantees implementation.
32:13Chief Minister Revanth Reddy said that if one month I hold my stomach from eating.
32:18From doing any corruption. Then we can definitely deliver this.
32:22Then why haven't you delivered this. And one more point. He also mentioned that the government of India.
32:27Because there is politics with economics too. He said that because KCR did not have good terms with the government of India.
32:35Now Mr. Revanth Reddy will have good terms with Narendra Modi ji the bada bhai.
32:40He can get 50,000 crore annually is what he promised. So did the Congress get that?
32:46Tuhin Sinha I am running out of time. Will the BJP lead an all party meeting.
32:54Bring everyone together. Do what Revanth Reddy is saying. There must be a national public debate.
32:58And try and pull back. I think enough states have burned their hands.
33:02If they actually get together outside of the lens of the camera. If calm heads sit.
33:06And say okay how do we move forward. There may be a willingness to move forward.
33:10And actually pull back on some of this excessive spending.
33:13Rahul like I said yes there should be a national debate. And a national debate is any which way happening.
33:21You know but what worries me essentially is the attitude of a state government like Karnataka even now.
33:27You know I think journalists and media should question the 1,000 crore at this point for the CM Muslim colony development fund.
33:35What is the need for that when you are in such a precarious situation that you have had to embezzle 14,000 crore
33:42out of the 39,000 crore allotted for the SCST funds in the state.
33:46You know when your Himachal Bhawan had to be mortgaged to pay the debts of the state government in Himachal.
33:52In that situation also you cannot grow out of your petty vote bank politics.
33:58I think once they grow out of it, we are most happy to engage with them.
34:02Now that everyone is admitting this is a problem across the political spectrum.
34:06Will you now hope that there will be a pull back on some of this expenditure?
34:10See Rahul I think I must get one statement right.
34:14BJP spokesman said the BJP government, the centre has been running a very prudent fiscal deficit regime.
34:23It's so bizarre that in last four years ever since 2021, the highest fiscal deficits which have been run in the history of this country is by this government.
34:36And the 3% fiscal deficit rule which was there in the law has been violated so badly.
34:42So if you talk about the prudence elsewhere when you are running such large fiscal deficit yourself, I think that doesn't gel well.
34:51But to come to your question, I think this is the central question.
34:56What is the right kind of fiscal expenditures of the states as well as the centre?
35:02Should you invest on CapEx?
35:04Should you invest on the direct benefit programs which reaches to the people directly?
35:11Or should you spend on the public goods and services?
35:14I think that is the central debate.
35:16This one guy or this guy does badly and I do better.
35:21I think that is not going to take anywhere.
35:24I am out of time.
35:25I think it's very important that at least politicians in power, chief ministers like Ravanth Reddy are being candid enough very early on in that term to say,
35:35hey we have a massive crisis.
35:37It may not have come across in some of what we heard from the politicians on this panel.
35:42But the chief minister has publicly said the state is in a financial mess, he needs help.
35:46And this only can happen if all states start pulling back.
35:50So it then becomes the accepted norm that beyond a point, freebies are not okay.
35:54Of course, you must do public welfare and expenditure.
35:57But as Subhash Garg says, determine what is acceptable to what limit.
36:02Give states some manoeuvrability in terms of where they wish to spend.
36:05But it cannot be reckless as it has been in the past few election cycles.
36:10I want to thank our guests for joining us.
36:11We will keep tracking this very closely.
36:13Coming up on the other side of a quick break.
36:16US intelligence chief Tulsi Gabbard is in Delhi.
36:20This is the first visit of a Trump 2.0 official to India.
36:23Details of her visit coming up on the other side of a quick break.
36:31US intelligence chief Tulsi Gabbard is in the national capital.
36:34This is the first visit of a Trump 2.0 official to India.
36:37Tulsi Gabbard met Defence Minister Rajnath Singh earlier today.
36:41Sources say India raised the issue of Khalistani terror
36:44and the anti-India activities of Khalistani organisation,
36:47Sikhs for Justice, which operates in the United States.
36:50Gabbard also met Prime Minister Modi this evening.
36:53The PM presented her with water from Mahakum.
36:55Gabbard in turn gifted the Prime Minister a necklace made of Tulsi beads.
37:11I am Mozart.
37:41This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
37:44This is from Tulsi G.
37:47Tulsi Mala.
38:11This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
38:14This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
38:41This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
38:44This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
38:47This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
38:50This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
38:53This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
38:56This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
38:59This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:02This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:05This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:08This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:11This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:14This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:17This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:20This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:23This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:26This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:29This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:32This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:35This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:38This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:41This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:44This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:47This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:50This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:53This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:56This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
39:59This is a gift from me and my new position as director.
40:02You know, what I have heard from the Indian government officials
40:05that I've spoken to over the last few days,
40:08there is an opportunity here to see more potential
40:12for the strengthening of our economic relationship.
40:17And I'm glad to see that they're looking at it in a more positive light
40:20than just one that is focused in a negative way when we look at tariffs.
40:24Obviously, Prime Minister Modi is looking out for what is in the best interest
40:28of India's economy and the opportunities available for the people of India.
40:33Similarly, President Trump is doing the same for the United States,
40:37our economic interests and the interests of the American people.
40:40So what I see as a great positive is that we have two leaders
40:45who have common sense and who are looking for good solutions.
40:49This direct dialogue happening at the very top in both of our countries,
40:54but also at the different secretaries and the cabinet members,
40:57is going to be key to lay down what that path forward really looks like.
41:02And I personally am excited because there's keen interest in the private sector
41:07here in India and in the United States to seek out those opportunities and to maximize them.
41:13Ma'am, there's a lot of attention, of course, in the Asia-Pacific region
41:17for your visit here and the earlier port of call.
41:21I wanted to ask you, what is your assessment of the Chinese threat in the Asia-Pacific region?
41:27And do you see India as a key player to counter China?
41:31You know, I've grown up in Hawaii and I've spent a lot of time in different countries
41:36across the Indo-Pacific region and so understand at a deeply personal level
41:41the importance of this area for my country.
41:45And also I think just as importantly in understanding the complexities
41:50that exist within the histories of each of these countries,
41:54India and China, Vietnam, Thailand, the Philippines, the United States, of course.
41:59So what I appreciate about President Trump and his approach
42:04and some comments that I heard Prime Minister Modi make recently
42:08is they are very practical and they are pragmatic
42:11and are looking to strike that balance that will allow us to hopefully prevent any kind of conflict.
42:19Obviously, as it relates to China, there are challenges and there are also opportunities.
42:25And we have two leaders of two very important countries
42:29who will play a very central role in taking on those challenges,
42:33resolving issues where they exist and also maximizing any opportunities.
42:39The goal, of course, that we all share is to achieve peace, to increase prosperity
42:46and to ensure stability and security for both of our peoples, but in the region as well.
42:52Ma'am, when you took over, there was a lot of attention to what people said
42:57that you were a sharp critic of U.S. forever wars and regime change wars.
43:02But you also said, and I'm going to quote what you said,
43:04when it comes to the war against terrorists, I'm a hawk.
43:08How does the Trump administration see the repeated terror attacks on India from Pakistan?
43:14You know, President Trump, through his first administration in the presidency,
43:18and it continues now, has been very clear about his commitment
43:22to defeating this threat of Islamist terrorism that has unfortunately plagued us,
43:28has and continues to pose a direct threat to the American people.
43:32But we see how it's been impacting people here in India, in Bangladesh,
43:37currently ongoing in Syria, Israel and different countries in the Middle East.
43:43So this is a threat that I know Prime Minister Modi also takes seriously
43:47and one where the leaders of our two countries will work together
43:51to try to identify and defeat that threat.
43:55I'd like to pivot a little bit on the ICET initiatives.
43:59Do you see India and the U.S. cooperating in the field of semiconductors and nuclear energy?
44:05Yeah, you know, I think there's not really any bounds
44:08to where the United States and India are looking to cooperate.
44:11And once again, we saw the initial vision and goals laid out
44:15by Prime Minister Modi and President Trump in their joint statement
44:18that came from the meeting that they had there in the Oval Office at the White House.
44:23So there are a lot of different elements, of course, with the private sector
44:27and with our respective agencies as it relates to commerce
44:31to see where those opportunities are, to see where there may be barriers to access
44:36and see how can we best, once again, strengthen our mutually economic interests
44:41by moving forward together.
44:43One question on dismantling of deep state assets
44:47that's being talked about a lot on social media.
44:50So I have a question on this.
44:53Everybody's watching that, especially the firing of U.S. intelligence
44:58involved in inappropriate chats.
45:00I have to ask you, were they involved in regime change matters in India?
45:06I can tell you, to my knowledge, the answer is no.
45:10I think what you're referring to, unfortunately, was an incident
45:14that came to my attention where for an extended period of time
45:19we had intelligence professionals who were using an intelligence-based chat network
45:26to conduct highly unprofessional and sexually explicit conversation.
45:33This not only violates the basic professionalism that we expect
45:38of all of our government employees, but it really violates the trust
45:43specifically around those, the trust that the American people need to have
45:48in our intelligence professionals.
45:51So in my role as Director of National Intelligence,
45:54this is one area that is my singular priority when it comes to ensuring
46:00that our intelligence community is focused on its core mission
46:03of securing our country, seeking out the truth and reporting that truth
46:08so that our president can make the best informed decisions.
46:12So anything else that distracts away from that, we want to get out of the way,
46:17whether it's these inappropriate chat rooms or the more serious threats
46:22that we've seen of the weaponization and politicization of our intelligence
46:26to undermine really the fabric of our democratic republic.
46:31Ma'am, finally I have to ask you, as a combat veteran now in the C-suite
46:35of the intel community, you've broken several glass ceilings.
46:39How important was spirituality and being a Hindu?
46:42How has that helped you in being this, breaking all the glass ceilings?
46:47Well, my own personal spiritual practice, my personal relationship with God
46:53is the center of my life, and I do my very best every day
46:58to live a life that is pleasing to God, and what better way to do that
47:03than to do my best to be of service to all of God's children.
47:07And so in different times of my life, whether serving in war zones
47:10in different parts of the world, or the challenges that we face now,
47:15it is Krishna's teachings to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita
47:20that I turn to in the best of times and the worst of times
47:24and continuously learn critical lessons from Krishna to Arjuna
47:30that give me strength, that give me peace, that give me great comfort
47:36through all of the days.
47:38You know, we don't have an intel chief who's a woman.
47:41You have broken that, and you've given a lot of hope for young women,
47:45even in our country, to do that.
47:48But, you know, at the Senate, when that hearing was taking place,
47:52in that hearing, you said, I'm not a puppet, and I've been accused
47:56of being a puppet of Putin, of spiritual gurus, of Modi, everybody.
48:02That came as a shocker to even us at that time,
48:05that you achieved so much in life that somebody could label you as a puppet.
48:10Was it really so surprising?
48:13Yeah.
48:15You know, the unfortunate attacks that come from political opponents,
48:20they stoop to levels that are incredibly disrespectful.
48:27My focus, again, is on how I can best be of service,
48:32how and where I can make the most positive impact.
48:36And I'm grateful that President Trump has given me the opportunity
48:39to serve as Director of National Intelligence,
48:42to continue what I have dedicated my life to,
48:45which is serving our country and working towards ensuring the safety,
48:49security, and freedom of the American people.
48:52It's almost lunchtime, ma'am, so what Indian food would you like to eat today?
48:56Anything on your list?
48:58Oh, my gosh. Let me just say I love so much about India.
49:03I always feel at home when I'm here.
49:05The people are so welcoming and kind, and the food is always delicious.
49:13The dal makhani and anything with fresh paneer is delicious.
49:19Thank you so much, ma'am, for giving us the time, speaking to us,
49:22and all the best to you for the next four years and for your visit to India.
49:26It's great to see you. Thank you so much.
49:28Stranded in space for over nine months,
49:31Sunita Williams is a step closer to returning to Earth.
49:34Her ghar wapsi from the International Space Station is scheduled for Wednesday morning.
49:39Here are the details.
49:47It was all claps and cheers as the hatch of the SpaceX Dragon spacecraft opened
49:53and the members of Crew-10 entered the International Space Station.
49:58There were hugs galore as Crew-10 astronauts met Sunita Williams and Butch Wilmore.
50:03The NASA Crew Swap mission will allow Williams and Wilmore
50:07to return home after nine unplanned months on the orbiting lab.
50:12The Crew-10 mission is a long-awaited first step to bring both back to Earth,
50:17part of a plan set by NASA last year
50:20that has been given greater urgency by U.S. President Donald Trump
50:24since he took office in January.
50:28We're coming back before long, so don't make all those plans without me.
50:32We'll be back before too long.
50:34I can tell you at the outset, all of us have the utmost respect for Mr. Musk
50:39and obviously respect and admiration for our President of the United States, Donald Trump.
50:45We appreciate them. We appreciate all that they do for us,
50:48for human spaceflight, for our nation.
50:50And we're thankful that they are in the positions they're in.
50:54On June 5th, Boeing Starliner carried its first two astronauts into space,
50:59a crucial test before the capsule could receive NASA approval for routine flights.
51:04But what was supposed to be an eight-day mission,
51:07docked to the ISS, has been drawn out by months after the capsule sprang leaks
51:12and some of its thrusters failed.
51:16And Houston, thank you for tuning in this early morning.
51:19It was a wonderful day. Great to see our friends arrive.
51:24So thank you so much.
51:26Sunita Williams and Butch Wilmore are scheduled to depart the ISS on Wednesday morning.
51:32Here's wishing them a safe flight back.
51:35Bureau Report, India Today.
51:39This is where I wrap up the news track tonight.
51:41For your time and your trust, thank you very much.
51:43I look forward to seeing you 8 p.m. tomorrow evening.
51:45Till then, from all of us here, bye, goodbye.