In Pakistan, a series of targeted killings have raised concerns about the security of top terrorists.
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00:00the mystery killings that haunt terrorists in Pakistan.
00:04Just a day after Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist Abu Qatal
00:08was gunned down, a Jamaat leader has also
00:12been killed in Pakistan.
00:13Now, the ISI is reviewing security
00:17that Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad,
00:20and several other terrorists enjoy in Pakistan.
00:24The information that we are now getting,
00:25so there are two different tracks that we are pursuing.
00:28One is the killing of terrorists,
00:30and the other information that's coming in,
00:32Mufti Abdul Baqi Noorzai, he's a senior leader
00:36of the Jamaat-e-Ulema-e-Islam.
00:37He was killed by unidentified gunmen,
00:40and this happened in Quetta.
00:42And Balochistan is in the headlines.
00:44Over the past several days, first a train was hijacked,
00:47then a military convoy was targeted, both in Balochistan.
00:51And all of this, while this was happening in Balochistan,
00:55in the Mangla Dam area, the Mangla Pass area near Jhelum,
01:01we are told that Abu Qatal, a close aide of 26-11
01:04Mumbai terror attacks mastermind, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed,
01:07was killed by unknown gunmen in Jhelum.
01:11Intelligence sources are telling India today
01:13that Pakistan's ISI has been tasked to do a security review
01:18of all top terrorists who are involved
01:20in anti-India activities in Jammu and Kashmir
01:23and other parts of India,
01:24and their security is being strengthened.
01:27Many terrorists wanted in India are now being shifted
01:31to safe houses across Pakistan.
01:40So I want to bring into this conversation Ijaz Ahmed,
01:43a senior Pakistani journalist who joins us
01:46on this broadcast.
01:47Ijaz, what should one make of somebody like a Zakir Naik
01:52who's seen as this Islamist preacher
01:55and a radical Islamist preacher,
01:57he's meeting Mian Nawaz Sharif.
02:00On the one hand, that's happening in Pakistan.
02:02On the other hand,
02:03namalum-afraad, as Pakistanis put it,
02:06are killing India's most wanted terrorists in Pakistan.
02:10How would you view that?
02:16We have to take it, the complete analysis,
02:20and we should analyze the situation
02:25not only independently, but also rationally.
02:30Just now Geeta was talking about terrorism,
02:33India fighting terrorism.
02:35It is the Pakistan that is facing terrorism,
02:39and it is fighting terrorism for many, many years now.
02:44Although there are many complaints
02:47against the establishment,
02:48they had their own voice in the Taliban and so on.
02:53But for the last four, five years,
02:56at least I will go to the extent of the Zarb-e-Azb
03:02and then Rahe-e-Nijaz before the Zarb-e-Azb.
03:05That was launched by General Kiani,
03:07and then the Zarb-e-Azb was launched by General Raheel Sharif.
03:11We saw the complete change in Pakistani policy,
03:14and we are fighting strongly.
03:17We tried to deal them, all the terrorists,
03:21we launched a massive operation against them
03:23and killed so many of them.
03:26But it was Afghanistan that provided safe haven
03:32to the Pakistani terrorists.
03:34All the PTP guys-
03:35No, but Ijaz, Ijaz, why you say that?
03:37And yes, Pakistan has faced terrorism.
03:40Ijaz, hear me out, hear me out.
03:43Yes, after the attack on Army Public School, Peshawar,
03:49we saw some changes.
03:50Yes, after the Lal Masjid incident,
03:53we saw some action being taken.
03:55And since you mentioned,
03:57there's also Operation Radd-ul-Fasad
03:59that was carried out after Zarb-e-Azb,
04:02and there's some Ishtikam or Ishtifam operation
04:06that was undertaken, which Pakistan now seems to be denying.
04:09I don't understand that.
04:11Then why is no action taken against Hafez Saeed
04:13for 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks when India gives a dossier?
04:16Why is action not taken against
04:18that Maulana of terror, Masood Azhar,
04:20who tried to assassinate your president, Parvez Musharraf,
04:24and India gave intelligence
04:25that saved Parvez Musharraf's life?
04:27Why is action not taken against them?
04:29Why this distinction between good terrorists
04:31and bad terrorists?
04:33Gaurav, the things you are saying
04:36and the points you are raising,
04:37they are propagating in India only.
04:41When General Musharraf,
04:43you mentioned the attack on General Musharraf,
04:45he was not a common man.
04:47He was not a civilian president.
04:48He was an ex-army personnel, ex-army chief.
04:52So army conducted an independent inquiry
04:55and whosoever was involved in that,
04:58they were taken to the courts,
05:00they were brought up to the justice,
05:02and justice is done with them.
05:05There is no question-
05:06Except that Maulana of terror, Masood Azhar,
05:07because the ISI, according to Parvez Musharraf,
05:11Permit me, I want the Indian audiences to know facts
05:14and the Pakistani audiences who watch us,
05:15they should also know facts.
05:17So Parvez Musharraf, in his book,
05:19very clearly writes that ISI told him,
05:22don't take action against that Maulana of terror,
05:24Masood Azhar.
05:25So that distinction between good terrorists
05:27and bad terrorists is made in Pakistan.
05:29Why should anybody sympathize with Pakistan?
05:32Look, Gaurav, let me raise a point.
05:36Samjhauta Express burning is a very famous case.
05:39Forget Samjhauta Express.
05:40Samjhauta Express was done by Lashkar-e-Taiba.
05:43There was dirty politics in India
05:44that blamed it incorrectly.
05:46I'm sorry.
05:47I'm sorry.
05:48I will not let you...
05:48No, no.
05:49We've had governments in our country
05:50which acted on things like Samjhauta
05:53and raised the bogey of Indian terror.
05:55I'm sorry, Ajaz.
05:57No, you may not speak.
05:58You will not speak lies on my show.
06:00We'll be very clear about that.
06:02Samjhauta is a bogey.
06:03The United Nations had a report
06:07that blamed Lashkar-e-Taiba for Samjhauta.
06:10And I'm surprised that in India,
06:12action has not been taken against those
06:14who raised that bogey of Hindu terror in Samjhauta.
06:17I completely disagree with you on Samjhauta.
06:20So let's not raise that bogey.
06:21He not tried in the court.
06:22You know, and for Bombay attacks.
06:25Yes, I condemn.
06:27I condemn Bombay attacks.
06:28We don't want condemnation.
06:29We want action against terrorists.
06:30No, no, no.
06:31We don't care about your condemnation.
06:32We took action.
06:33We want terrorists to be hanged.
06:35No, no, no, no.
06:36Abdul Rehman Maki was tried in the court.
06:38And he's producing children in jail.
06:40No, no, no.
06:41It was India that had to give evidence to Pakistan.
06:44Nothing was provided against Hafiz Saeed.
06:47Hafiz Saeed might be a criminal for India.
06:50But he's not a criminal.
06:51He's a terrorist.
06:52There's a distinction.
06:53Now you know why nobody sympathizes with you, Ijaz.
06:56Now you know why nobody sympathizes.
06:58My question would be,
06:59if 300, 400 Pakistanis have been burnt alive,
07:02why can't they come on Indian channel?
07:03He is a UN designated global terrorist.
07:07No, no, if my country has 300, 400-
07:10UN, Pakistan, Pakistan goes to UN, right?
07:13These are UN designated terrorists.
07:15If would be, if would be burnt in India,
07:18why should I not talk about them?
07:20And let me talk rationally again.
07:23But talk rationally.
07:24Don't do propaganda of ISI.
07:27I would love you to talk rationally.
07:28That's why I made you on my show.
07:30No, no, no.
07:31You are doing propaganda.
07:32I'm not doing any propaganda.
07:34I'm a journalist who has covered
07:35every terrorist incident in this country
07:38from 1999 till date, or virtually on ground, sir.
07:42I will not take Pakistani propaganda on my show,
07:46including on Samjhauta.
07:52Let's be very clear, Ijaz.
07:55Let us be very clear.
07:56India is a victim of Pakistan state sponsored
07:59radical Islamist terror.
08:01And your country takes no action
08:03against Hafiz Mohammed Saeed.
08:04Your country takes no action against
08:06Maulana Masood Azhar.
08:07Your country takes no action against
08:09Dawood Ibrahim Kaskar, who lives in Kripton, Karachi.
08:12No, no, no, no.
08:12You have to, you had to provide,
08:14India had to provide some evidence.
08:17And you know, when we talk about terrorism,
08:20we have to talk about whole spectrum.
08:23It was India that was blamed in Canada.
08:26An Indian officer.
08:27Who was that joker who blamed India in Canada
08:30was not even the prime minister of that country anymore.
08:32Please realize, evidence, there has to be evidence,
08:36evidence based action.
08:38Five has given evidence to Canada,
08:39five has given evidence to India,
08:41against Indian terrorism.
08:43No evidence given, no evidence.
08:45No evidence, still date, no evidence.
08:47Look, in Pakistan, in Urdu,
08:49whatever newspaper provides you,
08:52we don't care.
08:53Show me one shred of evidence given.
08:56One shred, one shred of evidence.
08:58Rationally.
09:00One shred of evidence.
09:02No, no, yes, I'm against all terrorists.
09:05Be it is, you know, Narendra Modi,
09:08or be he's Hafiz Saeed.
09:09I'm against all terrorists.
09:11Oh, nonsense, nonsense.
09:14Get off the show for heaven's sake.
09:16Narendra Modi is a very well-respected
09:18prime minister of India,
09:19who's won elections three times.
09:21He's one of the senior most elected leaders
09:24in the world today.
09:26Come on, come on.
09:27No wonder you people are treated the way you are.
09:31You take a bowl of bheekh and go to the world, Ijaz.
09:34Have some shame.
09:36Have some shame, Ijaz.
09:37Have some shame.
09:39Your prime minister's go begging.
09:41Our prime minister goes with respect.
09:43He's respected across the world.
09:44I will not have some Pakistani abuse.
09:46My prime minister, please get him off this channel.
09:49I want to, you want to listen to the fear
09:51in Pakistani voice?
09:52Listen to that Pakistani analyst,
09:54Kamar Cheema, who says there is fear.
09:56There is fear in Pakistan right now
09:59with namalum afraad, namalum afraad gunning down terrorists
10:03and why not when the Pakistani state supports terrorism
10:08and when journalists support terrorism
10:10and apologize for terrorism.
10:12What a shame, what a shame.
10:13But listen.
10:16Baloch aur Pakistani ek hi hain.
10:18Hum daishatgardon ki baat karein.
10:20Daishatgardon se na hum baat karte hain.
10:22Na hum inke saath kisi kisam ke dialogue pasand karenge.
10:25Na inki koi resources ki jang hai.
10:27Yeh daishatgard hain.
10:29Inko sirf wohi treat kiya jaayega.
10:31Jo banda bandook pakadke Pakistan ke Fauji pe taanega.
10:34Pakistan ki awam pe taanega.
10:36Nahatte bachon pe, betiyon pe, maon pe
10:39jo bandook jo taanega.
10:41Hum uss BLA ko kisaath koi dialogue nahin karenge.
10:47You know, the tragedy about Pakistan is,
10:50one, it is recognized globally
10:53as a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror.
10:56The world calls it an international migraine.
10:59And Ijaz, you should wonder why the world treats you
11:03the way the world treats you.
11:05When Pakistan goes with a begging bowl,
11:08now Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates also
11:11don't want to give zakat to you.
11:12Pakistani passports are being rejected.
11:15Pakistani visas are being rejected.
11:17India, Indians are welcomed.
11:19Indians are welcomed.
11:20You must think.
11:21I'm sorry, I will not permit you to do
11:23Pakistani propaganda on my channel.
11:25But you must understand, understand the difference
11:27between a terror state, Pakistan, and a democracy, India.
11:31If you can learn, it is good for you.
11:33If you can't learn, you know,
11:35the world says to hell with Pakistan.
11:38That is exactly where you are today.
11:40Dozak ki aag mein jal raha hai Pakistan.
11:43Kabhi aapke nabbe sipahi maar dete hai,
11:45Baloch Liberation Army.
11:46Kabhi aapke dhai so sipahi maar dete hai,
11:48Jaffer Express hijack karke.
11:50Aur aap yahan yahaan par raha paake humko batare.
11:52Kuch toh pata, Allah ka khauf karein aap log.
11:56Allah ka khauf karein aap log,
11:58aap kahan kis dozak ki aag mein jalenge.
12:00Kis ko khauf tha?
12:01Inse kis ko khauf tha, Abu Qatar aur baaki log.
12:05Haan, kis ka khauf tha, kis ka khauf tha?
12:08Major Gaurav ke khilab, Major Arya ke khilab,
12:10Major Gaurav ke khilab.
12:11Major Arya ke khilab,
12:12aapne koi samjhauta akshya stand mein.
12:14Achha, aap log padhe likhe hote hain kya?
12:16Aap log padhe likhe hote hain?
12:18Matlab, duniya mein kahin toh padhahi karte hungi na?
12:21Ya madraso mein, Pakistani madraso mein,
12:23yahi shiksha milti aapko.
12:25Hum aapki tarah, dekhi na?
12:26You know, which is such a shame.
12:28Anyways, Ijaz, seriously, there is absolutely no point,
12:33no point, no point talking to Pakistanis,
12:35and that is why India treats Pakistan
12:38with the contempt a state sponsor
12:40of radical Islamist terror deserves.
12:42That is exactly the same reason.
12:44And anyway, I want to take a quick break at this stage.
12:47We don't want to waste time with people who spend time
12:49with the Zakir Naiks and Hafiz Saeeds
12:51and the Maulana Masood Azhars of this world.
12:54Clearly, clearly, the world knows why Pakistan remains
12:58the global epicenter of radical Islamist terror.