La psicoanalista Agustina Fernández, aborda el impacto psicológico que enfrentan las personas afectadas por desastres naturales, como las inundaciones en Bahía Blanca. Se destaca la necesidad de apoyo emocional y terapéutico para superar el trauma y el duelo por las pérdidas materiales y humanas. Además, se discuten los desafíos de la resiliencia y cómo la comunidad puede ofrecer solidaridad en momentos críticos.
🗣️ Antonio Laje
👉 Seguí en #OtraMañana
🗣️ Antonio Laje
👉 Seguí en #OtraMañana
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00:00You face, yesterday we were wondering, beyond all the help that must be given, there is a part that is the psychological.
00:10How a person who lost everything, first goes on, goes on, and the fear that it will happen to you again, how do you handle it here?
00:22It is a matter of mental health, because in general we tend to think more about physical damage, even in the body, even in the losses.
00:31But mental health here is extremely important. I thought there are like two times if we could organize it like this.
00:41In general, things happen sometimes simultaneously, but there is a first time that is the impact, the shock, the despair.
00:49I don't know if you have time to think about it.
00:51Exactly, I thought that, just when I listened to them, someone said, well, they decided to leave it, they did what they could.
00:59At the moment of shock, one almost does not think about the automatic response it has.
01:04But of course, then comes a second time, which is the time to be able to re-elaborate all that, which is what in psychoanalysis we talk about the issue of grief.
01:13Can you close the door there, please, guys, because there is so much noise that it cannot be heard. Thank you.
01:19I was telling you that later there is a process that is elaborative, which is to elaborate a grief, a grief for the lost.
01:27And we still don't know what the lost is really, because there are the loved ones who could not be there, the grief for the deceased, the grief for the objects that we lose.
01:38There are still missing people that we don't know if they are found or not.
01:41That also takes a long time to assume it psychically.
01:45And all that we still don't know that we lost with all those people and those objects.
01:50The truth is that the images, if we don't ...
01:53No, you lost your family, you know, because obviously it is a much greater tragedy.
01:58And I thought not only for the people who are there, but also for the relatives who are far away.
02:03Because there are many people who are seeing this as we are seeing it, but who lived there, who were there.
02:09So the dimension of the loss is huge and each situation is unique to elaborate.
02:15I also thought that there are other issues that also traumatize this.
02:19I was listening to the issue of robberies, for example.
02:22That is, there is the tragedy, which is the natural catastrophe, but at the same time there are all the other tragedies that are adding up.
02:30You have to stay in a place that is uninhabitable to avoid that what little you have left, they don't take it out.
02:36You don't lose it either.
02:38I mean, all that is lost with that.
02:40The thing is that I don't know if within the ...
02:43Of course, the material loss is gigantic and you have to solve it and you have to be with the State helping.
02:50But this is what I think is never taken into account, the mental health issue, which is also important.
02:56Totally, totally.
02:57In the midst of all the help that is given.
02:59Totally, and also that in general there are some symptoms that are seen at the moment, as we said, the moment of shock.
03:06There are people who have spatial temporal loss, disorientations, depressions, anxieties, crisis of anguish, etc.
03:15We saw a person who was crying, who didn't even want to appear on camera.
03:18Well, there are thousands of situations.
03:21The case was very particular. Apparently he called 911, but then the police arrived and he didn't want to say anything.
03:27And that's all the shock issue.
03:29These things happen, right?
03:30You also have to be able to think that these things happen.
03:32But then there is the posterior, the time it takes to elaborate this.
03:36That is also very typical.
03:38And many of these people, of course, are going to need help, because this is not done so simply.
03:45How is the help? From the council, from the therapeutic support?
03:50And you have to evaluate each case, in principle, because that is fundamental.
03:54Above all, I say, obviously, the family issue, I put it aside, it is an extreme case, even more extreme.
03:59But in the face of the loss of something that you may have fought all your life to have a car, a house, and suddenly you don't have it.
04:05Look, you know that when Freud spoke of pain, one first thinks about the loss of a loved one.
04:11But in reality, the losses are many.
04:14It can be the loss of freedom, it can be the loss of material objects.
04:17For example, I thought, it is very typical that, for example, when they stole a computer from me for the first time, many years ago,
04:24one of the things I regretted the most was that I had lost all the photos of my baby daughter, that I didn't get them back.
04:28I mean, the photos, one loses different dimensions, right?
04:32Of the memories, of the stories, of the shared moments, of what you say, right?
04:37Of what you managed to build up to here and suddenly that is no longer there.
04:40Of course, it can be rebuilt, but well...
04:43You are going to fall from that loss later.
04:46Totally.
04:47But you lost, in many cases, your life story.
04:50Exactly.
04:52And going to resilience, recovery, we see more and more climatic phenomena of this type.
04:59Should we learn some techniques to, for example, not get so anxious or not be so afraid at the time of a catastrophe of this type?
05:08Yes.
05:09Should they teach us?
05:10Well, you know that there are places where, let's say, for example, right?
05:13That have frequent earthquakes, that have a whole preparation.
05:16Of course, that are prepared.
05:17The boys at school beat them, I say, there is, there is this.
05:20Of course, one can work in prevention, but the truth is that there is a dimension of the traumatic moment,
05:26in the scene, in that moment that we can never anticipate.
05:30It's like when we are in front of a robbery.
05:32We know that we have to behave, we have thought not to behave in one way or another,
05:37but at that moment we do not know how we are going to react.
05:40No, because they are automatic phenomena that occur at that moment.
05:44What we can do is later and reconstruct what happened and be able to elaborate it.
05:48It seems to me that this is the dimension that we can work on, right?
05:52That is the dimension of what we can re-elaborate from all this.
05:56And for this, yes, we are going to need therapeutic teams,
05:59we are going to need different types of institutions that provide help to these people.
06:05And to all those who were surrounding them, right?
06:08We also saw, for example, relatives who came from other cities to help,
06:13the help of the neighbors.
06:15I say, there is also solidarity, let's say, of the neighbors.
06:19I say, not all are robbers.
06:21I say, different types of situations are enhanced.
06:25And community help is fundamental.
06:27I say, the bond between the people who support each other.
06:31It happens, I say, it happens.
06:33The water goes down, the reconstruction begins.
06:37When you have, because obviously it is not comparable, right?
06:41But I always ended up remembering the coronavirus,
06:44because for me everything that happened was so terrible.
06:47That sequels of those, sequels on a mental level,
06:51you have left and maybe they appear to you in ten years.
06:54And in cases like this.
06:56Yes, it is like that.
06:57It's like you say, we don't know when a situation is going to resurface, right?
07:01Because in reality, we know that when there is a traumatic situation,
07:05there is like a whole sphere, let's say, sensitive,
07:09that is predisposed to reactivate itself again quickly
07:13in the event that a minimum indication appears, right?
07:16Yes, that it rains, nothing more, maybe.
07:18That it rains, exactly, exactly.
07:21This happens a lot, for example, in accidents.
07:23When a person goes through an accident,
07:26then the minimum phenomenon, let's say,
07:28that activates that traumatic situation,
07:30comes back to life.
07:32You go on vacation or you go on a business trip
07:35and it rains in Bahía Blanca.
07:37You are on a trip and you have a bad time,
07:39thinking about whether or not it will flood again.
07:42That happens.
07:43Totally.
07:44Your head starts to move in a different way.
07:47What you were telling about the COVID-19 pandemic
07:51is interesting because I think it is a situation
07:53that we were able to live on a global level, right?
07:56That we all went through it in some way.
07:58I think that remains in our experience
08:00to be able to put ourselves in the place of that other person
08:03who is experiencing a tragedy like this.
08:05There is an interesting dimension,
08:07while I was listening to you, I was thinking,
08:09which is the dimension of when it is going to happen,
08:11when it ends, right?
08:13For that person who has been there for hours
08:15and we have been there for days, right?
08:17In that traumatic situation.
08:18Well, it is not a specific situation,
08:20it is a traumatic situation that is being sustained in time, right?
08:23And that time that becomes infinite
08:25when we do not see that it ends.
08:27When does this end? When does it end?
08:29We have all experienced this in the pandemic
08:32and I think it is a good experience
08:34to know what it is about, right?
08:37And more when you see these images.
08:38I go back with you there to Bahía Blanca,
08:40then to the outskirts of the city of Bahía Blanca.
08:44You don't know when this will end.
08:47And when, right?
08:48A lot of people don't know.
08:52Ale.
09:18Come closer, look.
09:19They have made this corridor
09:21to get in and out themselves.
09:24And also the puppy,
09:25which they have now put on top of the bed.
09:30Well, they have saved him.
09:31Here the water has reached the height,
09:33approximately, passing my knee.
09:34Antonio has now gone down a little.
09:36The owner of the house is going to come closer
09:38to help us.
09:39The car has tried to lift it with bricks,
09:42but at one point it began to float
09:45so that, obviously,
09:46not to lose everything they have.
09:48That was the premise,
09:49to try not to let the water take away
09:51absolutely everything.
09:53Master, how are you?
09:54Good morning, your name?
09:55Franco.
09:56Franco, I see that you lost practically everything.
09:59Yes, the furniture, everything.
10:00So, well, here cleaning.
10:02Did you resist?
10:03Did you stay when all the water was there
10:05or did you leave?
10:06No, I left.
10:07I took my children, my wife,
10:09and then I stayed.
10:11Did you take them out out of fear?
10:13Did you come back out of fear of being robbed?
10:15Yes, yes, yes, because they had already stolen.
10:18So...
10:19What did they steal?
10:20Televisions, from what I heard,
10:22and I think a bottle, I think.
10:25How was it to spend the night without your children,
10:27with the house flooded,
10:28being here taking care of this?
10:29Yes, sad, yes, sad.
10:31But well, what can you do?
10:33You have to get ahead.
10:35Did you go through the window?
10:36No, through the side door.
10:38Did you do this for the dog?
10:39Yes, too.
10:40Did you have to get your children out of here?
10:42Yes, we got out of here.
10:43Yes, because we put those things there,
10:45the door couldn't be opened,
10:47the brick inside,
10:48but nothing could be stopped.
10:50When the water began to enter,
10:51did it come very strong or did it start slowly?
10:53No, my father woke me up,
10:56I was already sleeping,
10:57he called me to let me know,
10:58to see if I was okay,
11:00and nothing, when we wanted to get out,
11:02I was already inside.
11:03Here it didn't run with so much current,
11:05but it started to come.
11:06It came very fast.
11:07Yes.
11:08So well...
11:09Have you lived here for a long time
11:10and you were able to build this?
11:11Yes, about five years.
11:13I bought the land a while ago,
11:15and I think we've been here for about five years.
11:18Thank you very much.
11:19No, please, thank you for coming.
11:21Well, another story.
11:22Do you need anything you want to say on TV?
11:24There are volunteers bringing things.
11:25No, thank you.
11:26A lot of people have already come to help, so...
11:28Was there official help?
11:29No, no, no.
11:31Only that the neighbors,
11:33when they came out asking here,
11:35the bomb came, that's all.
11:36But they haven't brought you food,
11:38anything official?
11:39No, no, no.
11:40Only the people who come close.
11:42They brought me bandages and those things.
11:44Thank you very much.
11:45No, please, thank you.
11:46Well, Antonio is in the state,
11:49but he is absent in these places, right?
11:52He hasn't arrived.
11:54I don't know how that works,
11:57but I've been to neighborhoods
11:59where nothing official has arrived.
12:00Only volunteer help.
12:02The situation is very difficult.
12:04Ale, stay with the image and I'll be back with you.
12:06Agustina, the last thing.
12:08You talk to everyone you talk to,
12:10they end up saying,
12:11they're at home, obviously.
12:13And well, we have to go on.
12:15How barbarous our heads are, too.
12:18Because you have to go on.
12:20You have to go on, there's no other way.
12:22Yes, and it's like she said,
12:24the word of resilience, right?
12:26You have to join forces to be able
12:28to move forward again.
12:29What I also thought while listening to him
12:32is that these people also go through
12:34different moments,
12:35that this must be known, right?
12:36Sure.
12:37I mean, to be warned,
12:38not to think that you always have the desire
12:40and the will to go on.
12:41There are times when you go a few steps back,
12:44there are times when you can bet again.
12:47And the one who is in the moment of feeling,
12:49I don't know how I'm going to recover,
12:51what would you tell him?
12:53Well, in principle, what I would tell him
12:55is that anyone who needs it, ask for help.
12:57It seems to me that this is a fundamental position
13:00at this moment, right?
13:02That there are, let's say, institutions
13:04that approach to be able to listen
13:06to those requests for help.
13:08That seems to me to be fundamental,
13:09that they don't stay alone.
13:11Because being able to make contact with others
13:13is what takes us out of certain situations
13:15and that's the possibility we have.
13:18Agustina, thank you very much.