Sheffield Wednesday insider Alex Miller joins James Copley to discuss Sunderland clash...
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00:00Hello everybody, welcome to the RAW podcast. My name is James Copley from the Sunland Echo.
00:24Delighted to be joined today by my friend and colleague Alex Millett from the Sheffield
00:29Star. We're going to be previewing the Sheffield Wednesday game against Sunderland at Hillsborough
00:34on Friday. Alex, how are you doing, mate? Nice to see you. Yeah, and you, James. Yeah,
00:39I'm all right. I'm all right. Looking forward to Friday night lights yet again. Two on the
00:43bounce for Wednesday and a nice clear weekend that comes with it, come what may. So always
00:49a bonus. Absolutely. Let's dive straight into it, shall we? We'll take a little look at
00:55Sheffield Wednesday's season so far. It was a little bit of a slow start, wasn't it? Obviously
00:59lost 4-0 to Sunderland right at the beginning of the season. I thought possibly the potential
01:05to struggle, but they've turned it back round, haven't they? Yeah, I think there was a big
01:10onus on Wednesday changing their playing style from last season to this. And I think that
01:17was reflected in those first few games heading into the first international break. The first
01:23day of the season, they beat Plymouth 4-0 at Hillsborough, sold out stadium. Everyone's
01:28talking, you know, at what stage is the title going to be confirmed? And then, yeah, back
01:34to earth with a big old bump up at the Stadium of Light. And those results did sort of carry
01:42through for the next couple. They played away at Millwall, lost 3-0, barely got a kick.
01:48And that was the game that was leading into the international break. And there was definitely
01:54a change there. And Danny Reuel sort of looked at it along with his coaching staff and sort
02:00of went back to basics just a little bit. You know, it wasn't mass, mass changes, but
02:03certainly in terms of the system that they were using. And some of that stuff from the
02:10other days has now been drip fed, I should say, sort of later on in the season. But perhaps
02:17it was a case of running before they can walk. But yeah, they've had good runs, they've
02:24had bad runs, they've had inconsistent runs. And I think that sort of reflects in their
02:28placing in the table at the minute.
02:30So what sort of generally and tactically has changed then since that 4-0 loss at the Stadium
02:35of Light?
02:36Yeah, well, as I say, the system, they've sort of moved a couple more maybe into the
02:42midfield areas. The system is very fluid. And as I say, a lot of that stuff that we
02:48were seeing that perhaps wasn't working at the start of the season, that very start of
02:54the season, has been sort of drip fed in as things have gone on. I think you'll see, depending
03:01on how they want to set up, you'll see sort of the full backs being sort of inverted and
03:08coming into a number six, which frees up the midfield players to go further forward.
03:13It's a nightmare picking out what system and what they're playing, because it's a constant
03:20moving feast. And, you know, Wednesday have been known to sort of change their system
03:28and loose formation three, four times in a match. So I think that's sort of a testament
03:35to Danny Royal's sort of tactical acumen. And also, you know, as I say, you know, in
03:43the brighter periods of results, you know, it's been testament to the players on picking
03:48that up eventually. But yeah, looking back to those early weeks, perhaps it was a little
03:53bit too much to begin with.
03:55I find it an interesting game. Obviously, Sunderland's form has slumped a little bit.
03:59The automatics look a little way off now. When Sunderland played Sheffield Wednesday
04:04I felt like Sheffield Wednesday sort of came out to play against Sunderland.
04:07And a lot of teams made that mistake early on against Sunderland.
04:11I think we've now seen teams almost work them out a little bit.
04:15And they will go on a low block.
04:16They will look to frustrate and they will look to sort of counterattack.
04:19I'll be interested to see, Alex, whether Danny Royal sort of really capitalises on that,
04:24because although it's been a very good season for Sunderland, it has stalled in the past
04:28sort of five games, I would say.
04:30Yeah, certainly. I watched the Leeds game and obviously keep a close eye on the results
04:35of you guys. It feels like there's kindred spirits between Wednesday and Sunderland.
04:42Rocky relationship maybe in the League One years and Patrick Roberts and all that,
04:45but we'll skim past that. But yeah, I think so.
04:49Look, we've seen that in certain games where Wednesday, certainly in the first half of
04:54matches, have looked to sort of nullify and sit in a little bit deep.
04:57And it's got them results, you know, in the second half when the onus is on the other
05:03team to sort of step out.
05:05That's when Wednesday can make them pay.
05:06And we've seen several games this season where Wednesday have got a result, a win,
05:11you know, certainly in the games away from home with 35 per cent possession, you know,
05:15and they've hit them on the break.
05:16And they are very athletic in some areas, very pacey side.
05:21And it's in the likes of Michael Smith's got eight goals this season.
05:25Big Newcastle fan, by the way.
05:28He's got eight goals this season, and I think six of them have been for the bench.
05:31And, you know, a stat that's bouncing round Wednesday Twitter is that Wednesday are the
05:38team in the Championship with the most goals that have come from substitutes.
05:43I think that sort of speaks to how, you know, the match plan and it's a very highly
05:47technical set up that Danny Royal's put together.
05:51And, yeah, the second half of games is where Wednesday have hurt teams, essentially.
05:56So, yeah, I would sort of half expect, look, it's impossible to tell.
06:01Wednesday can surprise with how they go about things.
06:05But, yeah, if I was to put a lazy fiver down, I'd say Wednesday sit in for the first half,
06:10make their subs in the second and try and nick a win.
06:14It's interesting that, isn't it?
06:15Because a lot of teams at home, the onus is maybe on them to go and attack the game
06:22and have a bit more possession.
06:24And Sunderland actually, over the course of this season, have benefited from that away
06:29from home. But it doesn't sound like Wednesday, to you, will go down that route, Alex?
06:33Yeah, possibly not.
06:34Look, like I say, trying to second-guess Jeffrey Wednesday is a very difficult task.
06:41So it could be that they come out eight strikers and go for it.
06:44But, yeah, look, if you look at the home and away league tables in the Championship,
06:51that tells a story.
06:52Wednesday are up in the bottom six, I think, if that's still correct, in terms of their
06:58home form, which for Sheffield Wednesday is an unusual thing.
07:02Hillsborough is usually a very difficult place to come.
07:04You know, in years gone by, they've gone on long, long unbeaten runs there.
07:08And it's since the turn of the year, I was looking at some of the numbers last night.
07:12In terms of performance and XG and, you know, you can put as much value on those sort of
07:20things as you like, Wednesday's home form in terms of performance since the turn of
07:24the year has been outstanding.
07:26You know, they're hitting XGs of two and a half, you know, quite regularly.
07:32They're not putting the ball in the net and they're making mistakes at the back.
07:35And, you know, anyone that saw the games against Luton or against Coventry more recently,
07:42there's big errors being made that are costing them and they are creating chances and they are
07:46getting shots off.
07:47They're not hitting the net.
07:48And this is what Danny Rill sort of spoke about a number of times about quality in both
07:55boxes and doing it in both boxes because you can be as attractive and play as free-flowing
07:59football as you like between those 18-yard boxes.
08:03But that's where it really counts, clearly.
08:06Take us through the manager's impact on this club, Alex, because from an outsider's
08:10perspective, he looks an excellent coach.
08:14I'm always struck by his personality as well.
08:16I mean, I looked up from my laptop at the Stadium of Light in the press room and Danny
08:21Rill stood over me going for a handshake and he went around the room.
08:24He seems like a very classy guy, very well spoken.
08:26He genuinely feels like the full package and, dare I say it, with respect to Sheffield
08:31Wednesday, probably destined for the Premier League at some point.
08:34I'd go further than that.
08:35I think one day in years to come, I'll be filing stories on how ex-Sheffield Wednesday
08:43manager Danny Rill has gotten in the Champions League.
08:44I really do. He's so tactically astute, very, very talented, very, very driven.
08:51That's what's driven me.
08:56Very, very ambitious, makes no bones about things that he wants in the public domain,
09:03which I think has contributed to fractious relationships, I think, with some of the
09:10people up top. But, yeah, very, very talented.
09:14I mean, the way that he came in, the Wednesday that he walked in on was broken.
09:19You know, 14 matches, including two Carabao Cup ties with League Two opposition without
09:26a win in 90 minutes, you know, a side that just looked absolutely appalling without a
09:33win, the worst start to a championship season in its history, and managed to stay up with
09:40a win at the Stadium of Light, obviously last season in really, really impressive circumstances.
09:46Getting that team scoring was, you know, the work of a magician, let alone getting them
09:53winning games. And yeah, it was an incredible season to cover.
09:56This season, you know, obviously expectations are raised.
10:00You know, the form guide from when Danny stepped into the club to the end of the season
10:05had them, you know, play off form, really.
10:09And after that first day win against Plymouth, as I say, it was, you know, people were booking
10:14hotels for Wembley and all sorts.
10:15So it's been a bit of a bumpier ride this time, but there's plenty of reasons for that.
10:23And I think it's fair to say that one of them is not, you know, Danny Rills' tactical acumen.
10:30I think it'll go very far in the game.
10:32Are you surprised in a way, Alex, that he's still at Hillsborough?
10:35Just thinking back to the summer, there was a lot of noise around him, some of it coming
10:39from Wearside as well, when Sunderland were without a manager.
10:42I know there was a little bit of interest from Southampton that probably would have been
10:46a bad move to make at that time, obviously earlier on in the season.
10:50What's made him stay at Sheffield Wednesday, do you think?
10:54The compensation price tag hanging above his head.
10:58Always comes down to money, doesn't it?
11:00It does, yeah, in this bitter, bitter world that we live in, James.
11:05Yeah, I don't think it's any massive secret that Danny Rills would probably be a Southampton
11:10manager now, had the compensation not been too high.
11:14We gather that in the summer, that was something that put other clubs off as well, potentially
11:23even up your neck of the woods.
11:26And like I say, he's an ambitious manager.
11:28He does love Sheffield Wednesday, he said that.
11:30He enjoys the idea of the project that he's got there, that he's got an incredible connection
11:35with the fan base.
11:35I think with Southampton, part of the reason that was such a drive for him, he'd worked
11:41there before, he was Ralph Hassenuckel's assistant manager and obviously the lower
11:45of the Premier League and a step up in facilities, infrastructure, playing staff.
11:50The list is endless, you know.
11:54So, yeah, I think I wouldn't say he's desperately unhappy at Sheffield Wednesday.
12:01There's question marks over the relationship between him and the higher up, higher up,
12:07I should say.
12:09And yeah, I think going forward, that's something that needs to continue to be mended.
12:15To be mended, but he signed a contract until 2027.
12:20There's a hefty compensation fee in there and I think it'll be over to whichever club
12:26it might be to sort of test the waters on that when it comes to it.
12:30Let's talk about that higher up, because I've been stunned by some of your coverage
12:35in the best possible way this season.
12:38Like you with Sunderland, I keep a keen eye on Sheffield Wednesday.
12:41We've known each other for a long time now, being at Sheffield and Hillsborough a couple
12:45of times.
12:45Obviously, Joe Cran as well, your colleague.
12:47So, you know, playing Sheffield Wednesday at the Playoffs, the League won days, two
12:51clubs that were too big for that division and then sort of became rivals, didn't they?
12:54So, I always keep an eye out.
12:56But what struck me is the coverage a couple of months ago, whenever it was, of the Chancery
13:02talking with the fans and the nuggets that came from that were just extraordinary.
13:07One story in particular caught my eye that you shared on your social media was a player
13:12being recalled from loan and the owner not being aware, making a phone call and then
13:18confirming to the fans in attendance that that was actually the case.
13:21And again, what strikes me in your coverage after that is that Danny Rowles says that
13:26he doesn't really talk to the chairman.
13:28It seems like an extraordinary sort of set of events in Sheffield Wednesday.
13:33Yeah, I mean, from what we can gather, you know, they are on at least workable talking
13:39terms now.
13:40So, I wouldn't like to speculate too much on where the relationship is at, you know,
13:46at this moment in time.
13:47Certainly, when that fan forum was held in the middle of January, they hadn't spoken
13:53for a while, shall we say.
13:57And obviously, in the middle of an important January transfer window, that put obstacles
14:03in the way because, you know, Danny is the one that ultimately has the sign off on the
14:06players and Chancery is the one that signs the cheques and Chancery has lied a couple
14:12of times as well.
14:13He's not come to me, he's not spoken to me.
14:15He can't need anything in this transfer window.
14:18It all felt a little bit childish, you know, the balance on blame on both sides.
14:24You know, it depends on what sort of story you want to believe and how much you put into
14:28the fan forum, how much you put into Danny's press conferences.
14:34But yeah, it was an extraordinary evening and not particularly unusual for Sheffield
14:39Wednesday.
14:40He's done a few of these fan forums that tend to go on for a long time.
14:43When I stumbled out of Hillsborough at about one in the morning.
14:47It was an incredible shift you put in.
14:49I couldn't believe some of the stuff that was really going on.
14:52I couldn't believe some of the stuff I was reading and not to go to it, but I had a quick
14:57look at the figures as well.
14:58I think at the time, just obviously working for the company we work for, we can track
15:02everything and the interest in those particular stories were just off the map.
15:06Yeah, absolutely.
15:08Gave us a nice little boost in the transfer window where Wednesday weren't doing anything.
15:13So I'd like to thank the chairman for that personally.
15:15But yeah, I mean, the sort of the gossipy line is obviously the relationship between
15:24the manager and the chairman.
15:25But one thing that has sort of fallen out from that fan forum is a back and forth he
15:31had with members of a protest group.
15:35It was against Sunderland, I think, one of the protests not long ago.
15:38And what came out of that was, in not so many words, were you going to find me a buyer then?
15:46You know, if you want me to sell, you go and find me a buyer.
15:48And I know that a couple of the supporters involved in that sort of movement have been
15:56in conversations with people claiming to be wealthy, claiming to be interested in buying
16:00a football club.
16:01And it's an absurd situation.
16:04It really is.
16:05And as I say, not entirely out of character for Sheffield Wednesday.
16:10It's been a crazy club to cover for the last few years.
16:14Big question to answer, and I appreciate you haven't got a crystal ball.
16:17But where do you think it all ends with Chancery?
16:19Because Sheffield Wednesday is such a big club.
16:21When that stadium's going, it's an absolutely incredible place to be.
16:25A football club in a big city as well with a ready-made rival.
16:29The history is there of the club.
16:31It feels to me like a little bit of a sleeping giant, really, in a sense.
16:35Not dissimilar to how Sunderland have been.
16:38Yeah, I think so.
16:39The potential's there.
16:42And it is, you know, there'd probably be a few red-tinted specs wearers that would argue
16:49this.
16:49But, you know, the bigger club in the city.
16:51And there's probably a generation of people that don't appreciate that because of what
16:57United have done getting into the club.
16:59What they've done getting into the Premier League and their association with players
17:03that have gone on to play with England and what have you.
17:06The frustration is that it's not been run to its full capacity.
17:11And that's why you see a wave every now and again of protests.
17:17You know, there's yet to be a proper, sustained, sort of actionable movement from the supporters,
17:25despite the interests of one or two that have tried to make it so.
17:30Where it goes, it's a good question.
17:33He's a difficult man to pin down.
17:35I think the question that I've asked him a couple of times is, what are you in it for
17:38at this stage?
17:39You know, you came in, you spent incredible amounts of money, you continue to fund the
17:47club.
17:47You know, it's costing him somewhere in the region of eight million pounds a year just
17:50to keep Sheffield Wednesday going.
17:52That's coming out of his pocket, you know, and you can't deride him for that.
17:57This isn't a Redding situation.
18:03I just don't know what he's getting out of it at this point.
18:06You know, there's a lot of hate that comes his way.
18:09You know, he's made statements on things that have been said against him and his family,
18:12obviously absolutely abhorrent.
18:15And at the moment, you're sort of looking at it as a football fan or a football journalist,
18:19and you're looking and going, it's going to take something absolutely extraordinary
18:23for Sheffield Wednesday to get in the Premier League.
18:25Parachute payments and clubs with better infrastructures and better structures in
18:33place to sort of sell, reinvest, it's all stuff that Wednesday have never done.
18:37They're as close as perhaps, you know, some people would expect them in terms of having
18:42a chance with Danny at the helm.
18:44If Wednesday can keep hold of Danny next season, there's certainly a lot more to build on if
18:48they can have a successful summer.
18:51And I think that's always been the end game for Chancery to get into the Premier League
18:56and perhaps sell up at that point.
18:58Who knows?
19:00He's a difficult man to put down, to pin down, James, as I say.
19:03And where it ends, hell knows.
19:09I guess the worry is that Sheffield Wednesday have got really quite a good manager and have
19:14struck gold.
19:14But if he were to leave, then the sort of, the nature of the hierarchy at the club we've
19:19seen when they don't get that managerial appointment right, I'm thinking after Darren
19:23Moore, that it can go south very, very quickly.
19:25And you are a Danny Roll away from going down to League One again.
19:29At Sutherland and Sawert last season with Michael Beale, we were in terrible, terrible
19:33form, you know, relegation form towards the back end of the season.
19:36If it wasn't for the points accrued under Tony Mowbray at the beginning of the season,
19:40we would have been further down the table than we were.
19:42Yeah, absolutely.
19:43And he's made good appointments, you know, across his time.
19:47Carlos Carvajal, if you go back a decade or so, felt to be the right man at the right
19:55time in terms of his personality and picking up a club that was on its way up.
20:00As we said, there have been some horrible appointments in there as well.
20:03You know, Jos Lukaj, Sisko Munoz.
20:07And so, yeah, you're rolling the dice again, I think.
20:09And look, he should be commended.
20:12He takes a lot of criticism for the Sisko and Jos Lukaj and Gary Monk, to an extent,
20:18and certainly Tony Pulis.
20:22He takes a lot of criticism.
20:23He's done all about that.
20:24Yeah, well, so did I.
20:25He had a speed race as well, didn't he?
20:27That was a long six weeks, let me tell you.
20:31But yeah, and so he should be commended for what has been an outstanding appointment in
20:36Danny Rill.
20:37But if he were to leave at some stage, then, as I say, you are rolling the dice once again.
20:44We'll go back to current affairs.
20:45I did think that, sort of based on the form a couple of weeks ago, that Sheffield Wednesday
20:50were going to really push towards the playoffs, but it seems to have dropped off a bit, Alex,
20:54they're down in 13th place again now.
20:57Yeah, the points difference is still, you know, there to be gone at, I think.
21:02It's difficult.
21:03You're always looking at this run of fixtures for Wednesday and thinking, I mean, Danny
21:07said this himself, if you can stay in touch, getting onto the other side of the international
21:12break in March, then Wednesday we'll have a chance.
21:15The fixtures on the other side of that look a little bit more gentle.
21:19There's some Hillsborough games where you can really see a sellout and a proper roaring
21:24Sheffield Wednesday crowd, which is always very powerful.
21:28But this is the block of fixtures and going to Burnley and playing so well in the first
21:32half with a better team at Turf Moor, how many teams can go and say that?
21:37And then losing 4-0, you know, through some lax defending and complete inability to finish
21:43the chances, which we've touched on before.
21:48So you're looking at the Sunderland game and then you've got the Derby, which no one should
21:55be looking forward to on either side of the divide.
21:57They're just horrible, horrible games.
22:00But that's the last game leading into the international break.
22:03But I think the interesting bit is you've got Plymouth away and Norwich away in four
22:08days, you know, which for a northern club, as you guys will understand, presents its
22:14challenges.
22:14And you've got that leading into the Derby.
22:16So you're always looking at this block.
22:18If they can scrape, you know, maybe a couple of wins down there, if they can get a point
22:24here or there, who knows, they could go and win the Derby.
22:29Then, yeah, things could get reignited.
22:32At the same time, you look at those fixtures, you think they're very difficult.
22:36We could be sat here in the international break, Wednesday, 12 points off and wondering
22:42where it all went wrong.
22:43And that's when it becomes a real struggle from a coverage point of view, isn't it?
22:47Just to keep motivated and keep those fingers tapping, Alex.
22:51Yeah, absolutely.
22:53The numbers sort of go down and...
22:55Yeah, I experienced that last season.
22:57Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:59But there'll always be something around the corner at Sheffield Wednesday, right?
23:01There'll be another fan forum or something to keep us interested.
23:05Yeah, I can imagine.
23:06How are things looking in terms of injuries, Alex?
23:11Low at the back, very, very light at the back.
23:15Akinfumewa and Dom Iorfer are both out, you know, for the next few weeks.
23:19They're both on long-term injuries.
23:22Coming out of the January transfer window, a lot of the talk were,
23:25well, they desperately needed a centre-half.
23:28First game out of the January transfer window, DeSean Bernard
23:31injures his knee and he's out for the rest of the season.
23:32So, yeah, they're currently going with Michael Ahequa, who's a very
23:40experienced centre-half who, for my money, has been very good,
23:44but was probably fifth or sixth choice at the start of the season.
23:48He's leading that defensive line now with Max Lowe, who's ordinarily a left-back,
23:55but again, has done well sort of in the centre of a back four.
24:00So, yeah, lean there.
24:01Anthony Massaba's not expected to play.
24:04He's out with an injury.
24:06Oh, you're testing me now, James, off the top of my head.
24:08Is Barry Bannon still out?
24:11Barry Bannon is back.
24:12Is he back now?
24:13Expect him to play with a support of sorts under his knee.
24:17He's played the last couple of games.
24:19He's played, I think, 90 minutes in both of those games.
24:23So, initially, I think it was expected that he was going to be out for a lot longer than he has done,
24:27but he's done what Barry Bannon does and sort of strapped himself up and wheeled himself out there.
24:35Absolutely.
24:36Well, we'll tail the podcast off,
24:38but just let me know what your prediction is coming into the game, Alex.
24:43I ask this because it always feels like something happens when these two sides play each other.
24:47I remember in League One, going down there and getting absolutely spanked under Lee Johnson.
24:52I can't remember the final score.
24:53I think it might have been 3-0 or something.
24:54There's obviously the two playoff games.
24:57Every game between the two in League One took on added importance.
25:00Obviously, the game towards the back end of last season, Sunderland were just so bad
25:04and Sheffield Wednesday were riding the crest of a wave.
25:07And then coming into the game at home this season,
25:10I don't think anybody really expected Sunderland to win 4-0 at the time.
25:14So, I always feel like there's a bit of drama when these two meet.
25:18Yeah, two proper clubs in it and I think it attracts a big spotlight,
25:23you know, no matter what division they're in.
25:25You know, certainly it was the case in League One.
25:30You're going to ask me for a prediction, aren't you?
25:32Just how you'll feel at the end of the game.
25:34You don't have to go specifics.
25:35Win, lose, draw, it doesn't matter.
25:36Just sort of an overview.
25:38You can go as in on it as you want to, Alex.
25:44You can give me a bit of rope to hang myself with.
25:47Yeah, I think from a Wednesday perspective and being optimistic,
25:51the one thing that Wednesday have done consistently under Danny Roehl is
25:56jump back from big defeats, you know,
25:59and just at the moment that everyone's writing them off and saying,
26:01well, this isn't going to happen or that's going to happen.
26:04They'll pull a result out of nowhere.
26:05So I'll optimistically go with a score draw.
26:08I think Wednesday at home have struggled to keep clean sheets.
26:11I'll go for a 1-1.
26:12Is Patrick Roberts going to be involved?
26:15Well, he played the last game and he's not injured,
26:17but he might be rotated out.
26:20You never know.
26:20Sometimes if there's a play that's going to be rotated out,
26:22it's Patrick Roberts, but obviously he loves it against Wednesday, doesn't he?
26:25Well, he'll come off the bench and get a last minute equaliser.
26:28So I'll go for 1-1 with the Patrick Roberts goal.
26:31Well, Sunderland have lost two on the bounce against Leeds.
26:35Who did we play last?
26:36I'm blanking.
26:37Hull.
26:38Yeah, Hull, yeah, sorry.
26:39I'm doing your job for you, Jay.
26:40I know, I've already erased it from the memory bank because it was that bad.
26:43So we've lost against Hull and Leeds last two.
26:47I think Sunderland are probably in the worst form of the season.
26:49I'm actually predicting a Sheffield Wednesday win.
26:50I think Sunderland's season is going to get a little bit worse before it gets better
26:54and then hopefully they'll pick up towards the playoffs.
26:57But Alex, tell me a little bit more about the Sheffield star
27:00and where Sunderland fans can find any information on the Owls in the build-up to the game.
27:05Yeah, we're on thestar.co.uk.
27:09Check us out on our socials.
27:10I'm at alexmiller91.
27:12My colleague Joe's on at, this is a bit, at yeswecram.
27:19So yeah, just find us on there.
27:20We've got a few bits going up and we'll have a fair bit of preview
27:24going up in the next couple of days as well.
27:26Brilliant.
27:26Thanks for joining me, Alex.
27:29And obviously you can head over to the Sunderland Echo website
27:31for all of the latest ahead of the Sheffield Wednesday game.
27:33Check out the Sheffield star as well.
27:35Thank you very much for joining us and we'll see you next time.