Plymouth Live's Chris Errington joins James Copley to preview Sunderland clash
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to the RAW podcast.
00:25My name is James Copley from the Sunderland Echo.
00:28I'm very pleased to be joined by a guest from Plymouth Live, Chris Errington.
00:33Chris, I just asked how you're doing before we hopped on the show and it's
00:37pretty badly in terms of a Plymouth Argyll perspective at the moment.
00:41Well, we're recording this James on the morning after Argyll's
00:465-0 humiliation by Burnley at Home Park on Wednesday night.
00:52Burnley are an excellent side, everyone knows that and have got a very good
00:56chance of going up. But as everyone knows, there's ways of
01:01losing games and that was certainly not a way to lose a
01:04game with all five of Burnley's goals coming before
01:07halftime. So yeah, it wasn't a great Wednesday
01:11night and of course, as you will well appreciate James,
01:15you have to get home in the evening and then write up all about it.
01:18And you know, we're very fortunate to have the job where we can
01:23report on football teams. I'm very privileged to report on
01:27Plymouth Argyll. It's great when things are going well,
01:31it's not a great deal of fun when they're not.
01:33But that's the rough and the smooth, isn't it? As football fans,
01:38we all know about the highs and lows and unfortunately,
01:42in lots of cases, there's probably more lows than highs.
01:45Yeah, we'll come on to the game and we'll preview the Southern game as well,
01:48Chris, but I think I read on your social media that you're into your 28th season
01:53Are you a Plymouth fan originally as well? No, no, I'm from Kent originally
01:57and ended up down in the far southwest of
02:02England. But yes, I'm in the 28th season and
02:06you can't help but not have an affinity for the club, of course you can't.
02:10You know the club really well.
02:17But yeah, so it is tough but I mean, I don't need to tell
02:23Sunderland fans this, do I? That, you know, following a team,
02:27following your team can be challenging at times, can't it?
02:30And that's what the Argyll Green Army are going through at the moment.
02:35Yeah, absolutely. It can be extremely challenging. I'm thinking of Sunderland's
02:38last relegation from the Championship. They were really,
02:42really poor that season and it just felt like blow after blow after blow.
02:45It sort of feels that way for Plymouth at the moment, doesn't it? Obviously the
02:48change of manager again. But talk us through that Burnley game
02:51because we played them two games ago at Turf Moor
02:56and sort of the criticism of Burnley is that they don't score as many goals
03:01maybe, but they've got a Plymouth away from
03:03home and I had in the back of my mind that perhaps Plymouth could spring a
03:07surprise but that didn't materialise. What was the sort of the undoing of
03:12Plymouth in that first half? Because it was a blitz really, wasn't it?
03:14Yeah, it was. There's a lack of confidence within the Argyll team.
03:18They've had a series of body blows, lots and lots of injuries this season
03:24but every team gets injuries. I would agree with that. They've had the
03:28change of manager. Morgan Whittaker, their star player,
03:32didn't play last night and once Burnley took the lead in the
03:3811th minute, there was only one outcome. I mean Burnley
03:41don't concede goals, do they? So once they were 1-0 up after 11 minutes,
03:45it was how many are they likely to get
03:49and they were five up at half-time and then the second half, as is often the
03:55way in these sort of situations, was a virtual non-event really. Argyll
04:00showed a bit more fight. The new manager that we can talk about
04:05made three changes at half-time. There was a little bit more about them
04:09but let's not kid ourselves. Burnley were not going flat out in
04:13the second half. They had other games to look forward to.
04:17I think they've got Leeds coming up next, if I've
04:20heard rightly, from Scott Parker in the post-match press conference.
04:23So I'm sure their attention's turned to that and
04:27Argyll, having played on a Wednesday night, have now got the
04:31mammoth trek up to the north-east at 14.
04:36What was the atmosphere like, if you don't mind me asking, at Home Park
04:39during that Burnley game? I ask this because
04:42when Sunderland came down there earlier in the season, I was really struck by
04:46how intense the atmosphere was. I actually think that got
04:49to Sunderland's players but I'm just curious as to how Plymouth fans
04:53responded to going five down in the first half. I know
04:55there's a new manager. I know there have been struggles and
04:58injury issues but what was that like?
05:02I've not often seen the Green Army turn on the players
05:06but they did last night with cries of this is embarrassing and
05:11at the end of the game a lot of the fans had already left
05:15but quite a few of those that remained made it
05:19abundantly clear they were not happy and
05:22you can't blame them.
05:26No team should be losing 5-0 at home to a team
05:29of the same division as them. That just shouldn't
05:32happen. Yes, Burnley are an ex-Premier League club.
05:36Yes, they may well end up back in Premier League next season.
05:40Yes, Argyle have had injuries and all sorts of things have
05:44conspired against them this season but you still should not be
05:48going down like that. 5-0 at half-time
05:52speaks for itself, doesn't it?
05:56Yes, it does and obviously those who've followed the game last night as well
06:00will know that your job has been twofold. You've had to
06:03cover Argyle being 5-0 down at half-time, bottom of the league,
06:06losing against a very good Burnley side but you've also had to
06:09deal with the sideshow transfer story surrounding Morgan Whittaker.
06:14The stuff I've read this morning is extraordinary. Can you fill us in
06:17on what happened essentially? Morgan Whittaker has been an excellent
06:22player for Argyle, one of the reasons why they have done
06:26so well in the championship until relatively recently.
06:30Naturally, he's been a target of transfer interest, not just in this
06:34transfer window but in previous ones. Burnley and
06:38Middlesbrough are widely thought to have made bids
06:41for him in the current window. Now, he was not in the squad last night
06:47although he was sat in the grandstand. The head coach
06:52Miran Muslic was asked about this after the game
06:55and said that Morgan Whittaker had been selected
06:58in the team for the game but he had not showed up,
07:02as in not arrived in time and therefore wasn't involved in the squad.
07:08I wonder how you would feel about that as a player in the
07:15dressing room. That cannot be good for morale. That
07:20could well have played a factor in the performance that we saw from
07:24Argyle in the first half. Is it an excuse?
07:29You could probably argue it either way but
07:33it's far from ideal preparation when you have a situation like that appear.
07:38I think Miran Muslic's comments after the game and how
07:43strong he was about it would indicate that whether
07:46Morgan Whittaker leaves Argyle before Saturday's game against Sunderland,
07:52there's no way he's going to be in the squad. I can't see there's any way that
07:56even if there's a transfer not agreed before then that he'll be part of the
07:59squad. It's an extraordinary story in
08:02your 28 seasons. Have you ever witnessed anything like that?
08:05I must admit when I read it this
08:07morning I just thought that's up there with
08:11some of the strangest things I've seen, particularly from a manager post-match
08:14where he's, for want of a better phrase, quite
08:17clearly just hugged him out to dry because
08:19he's seemingly in the wrong. I'm sure Morgan Whittaker would have his own
08:23side of things if he was to be interviewed at some point in the
08:26future but I just thought it was crazy, a crazy story.
08:31As you well know James, there's always two sides to every story
08:34and obviously we've not heard from
08:38Morgan Whittaker. Sometimes a third and a fourth side as well.
08:43You have to take these things
08:46on face value and Miron Mislic has given
08:50his and Argyle's side of things so we'll see what
08:54happens from that. It's up there with
08:58one of the strangest things I've seen in my time reporting
09:02but we see some pretty strange things when you report on a football club
09:08and it's not uncommon to be sometimes
09:15lost for words and think, did he really just say what
09:19I thought he said? That was definitely one of those
09:23occasions and as you say, coming off the back of a
09:27five-nil defeat as well, it just all
09:32conspired to make it a really
09:35miserable evening for Argyle. I felt like that actually
09:39when Mark Robbins came to the stadium with Stoke sitting in the FA
09:43Cup and he, I don't know if you saw it, but he had a
09:45sort of little mini rant about the state of the FA Cup and there being no fans in
09:48the stadium and I had to listen to the tape back
09:50because I thought, did he say what I think he said? It's quite
09:53soft-spoken Mark Robbins but I thought, I don't want to get any of this wrong.
09:57I'm definitely going to have to double check this but I mean,
10:00please, what's the fan reaction being like, Chris, to Morgan Whittaker's
10:04not appearance? Yeah, I think it's predictable, isn't it, that a lot of
10:09fans are unhappy about the reasons that have been given by
10:13Miran Muslic for the fact he's not in the squad.
10:18It's a shame it seems to be ending this way because Morgan has
10:23given Argyle some fantastic moments. He scored some
10:26brilliant goals, match-winning goals. It's only
10:30a couple of weeks ago that he scored the winning goal when they went to Brentford
10:33in the FA Cup and won 1-0 and they've set themselves up
10:36for a fourth round home tie against Liverpool
10:40in a couple of weeks' time at Home Park.
10:44So, yeah, I think it's just sad. It's sad that this is the state that
10:50it's got to and I'm sure all Argyle fans
10:55wish it hadn't worked out this way but that's the reality of the situation we
11:00seem to be in now and the club have got to
11:04to deal with the situation which presumably means
11:08agreeing a transfer for Morgan Whittaker
11:12to whoever it is as soon as possible really
11:16and then they can put that sort of chapter to bed
11:20and focus on trying to make a fight the rest of the season.
11:25It's going to be incredibly difficult for them to stay up
11:29but I think the fans, all fans, want to see their team show a bit of fight.
11:34Relegation might well happen but the team
11:38need to fight. I mean, even if that transfer goes through
11:43this afternoon, we're speaking on Thursday, Chris, you would suspect it
11:46will be tough for Plymouth to get in the
11:48targets they want before the end of the window, wouldn't you, given the
11:51league position as well? Yeah, not easy. Far from ideal timing
11:57but again, that's the reality of the situation. You know, you can't...
12:01there's no point crying about it if you're at the club.
12:05This is a situation, you've got to make the best of it.
12:08You know, the fee is a bit anyone's guess really at the
12:13moment. It will be a substantial amount by Argyle standards
12:17although Swansea City's former club I think gets
12:21a fair sell on as well but yeah, they're going to have some money to
12:25spend and regardless of what happens over the
12:29rest of this season, it's clear already that there's going to
12:33be a major overhaul of the squad, whether they stay up in the
12:37Championship or whether they are in Loupon next season.
12:41And talk to us about the new manager as well. How's he
12:44done so far from an outside perspective? It doesn't appear to have been
12:48too much of a new manager bounce but he's probably working amongst
12:52some constraints as well. Obviously, there's a lot going
12:54on at the club before. He comes highly rated, doesn't he, because he was a
12:57coach actually that was linked with with Sunderland in the summer. He's got a
13:00good profile but obviously a very hard job as well.
13:04Yeah, he's taken on a really tough task. Yeah, he had a fair bit of success at
13:08Circle Bruges in the Belgian Premier League. He took
13:13them from quite low down in the league
13:16and got them qualified for Europe. They've been playing in the Europa
13:21Conference League and doing quite well. So, he sort of comes
13:28with the the identicate that Argyle like of a young, ambitious coach
13:34who they feel can take the club forward.
13:39It was a decision that some fans were
13:42not convinced about at all. The former Argyle manager,
13:46Stephen Schumacher, was in the running for the vacancy and I think a lot of
13:50people thought, in tricky circumstances, he might be a
13:54safe pair of hands. Although, the way he left Argyle in
13:58December 2023 to go to Stoke City was, again, not handled particularly
14:03brilliantly and there might have been some pushback
14:06against him returning. So, anyway, they went with Miran Meslic.
14:10He's got such a hard task on his hand. There's injuries.
14:13Morgan Whittaker looks as though he's on the way out the door
14:16signing players in January whenever you're
14:20near or at the bottom of the table is never an easy task.
14:23Is it because, you know, players are understandably a bit reluctant to
14:28to put themselves forward for a relegation fight?
14:32It's a very difficult task for him. He speaks excellent English.
14:38He is very personable, charismatic. So, as a person,
14:46you know, he seems a really good guy.
14:49Obviously, three games in and in the circumstances that Argyle are in, it's
14:54difficult to judge him so far as a head coach, as a
14:58manager, as a leader. Some of the
15:03viewers here, James might have seen a video of his first day at Argyle, which
15:07went viral, where he made a very good sort of
15:12first day speech to the players. Now, clearly, one point from three games
15:19since he made that speech, but it came across very well.
15:24The fans liked it and, yeah, so he's a personality.
15:31Hopefully, he's a strong leader and he can make the decisions that need
15:37to be made to try and get Argyle, well, one, to stop Argyle from
15:41falling further and further and then stabilise
15:45and then, hopefully, in time, you know, build things back up again.
15:49And from the Plymouth board's perspective, Chris, it feels like
15:53the appointment of the new man had a bit of the daddy rules about it. Is that a
15:56fair assessment in terms of the type of manager, the profile and
16:00the job he's got, really, as well? Yeah, lots of championship clubs have
16:04tried this route, haven't they? Manager from Europe isn't particularly
16:09well known, but has had some success.
16:14It seems to have been a common theme, doesn't it? Look down the list of...
16:18It always used to be, didn't it, James, that a few years ago, you looked down the
16:21Premier League and you couldn't find an English manager among the clubs there.
16:25It seems to be you can look down the championship now and there's
16:28not many, is there? A lot of head coaches, managers, call
16:33them what you will, have come from Europe. It seems to be
16:37the modern thing. Yeah, absolutely. And what... I know he's
16:42very new into his tenure, but what are the key differences between
16:45him and Wayne Rooney, perhaps personality-wise and
16:48style of play as well, if there has been any sort of subtle little tweaks? I know
16:52Plymouth haven't done too well, but what is he trying to
16:55do at Plymouth? One of the difficulties that he's had,
16:58James, is he's had three home games in nine days and he said
17:02himself before the Burnley game that he'd had probably more games than
17:06training sessions. And so it's extremely difficult
17:12to implement ideas when you've got this tight a schedule as it is, because
17:17obviously you play one game, then the following
17:20day is recovery, and then the following day
17:23is your prep day, and then you're playing, and then, you know, like
17:27they played last night, recovery today, travel to Sunderland tomorrow. You've got
17:32very little chance to really implement your idea. So I think,
17:38you know, what the differences are going to be
17:41is a little bit hard to say. He said on a couple of occasions
17:46his style of football is to be... try and play the game as much in the
17:52attacking third as is possible. That doesn't necessarily mean you just
17:58get the ball forward, long ball style sort of thing.
18:02He wants them to be progressive, he wants them to play with intensity, he wants
18:06them to win the ball back high up the pitch.
18:10That is all going to take time to work on
18:13on implement, and he's taken over from Wayne Rooney who,
18:19you know, I have to say was a really nice guy to deal with.
18:24Very down-to-earth, and I think after some initial
18:31scepticism among the fans about his appointment,
18:35a lot of people bought into the idea of having him in charge
18:39and wanted him to do well. It didn't. It just didn't. The results speak for
18:43themselves. The change was made. Some fans would
18:46argue it should have been made earlier, quite a bit earlier than it was,
18:50but it was. His style was very much playing out from the back and
18:55progressing through the thirds, so I think there is going to be a
18:59difference in style, but it's too early really to
19:03to see any real noticeable signs of that tactically.
19:07And how do you think that style will translate to this weekend's game,
19:11obviously, with Sunderland flying high in the Championship? Will Plymouth
19:14come and set up to defend and perhaps counter? Will their away
19:18sort of set-up differ from the home set-up?
19:22Yeah, you can try and set up and defend,
19:26but that doesn't necessarily always guarantee
19:30success. Off the top of my head, Argyll have lost
19:365-0 at Cardiff, 6-1 at Norwich, 4-0 at Coventry,
19:45so heavy defeats are not unusual. They went to Leeds United in November
19:51and, I think, tried to literally park the bus
19:54and were 3-0 down at half-time, so it's a difficult one for them when you
20:00go to somewhere like Sunderland, who are doing so well.
20:04Yes, the sort of instinct is, look, we're going to
20:08try and defend as solidly as we possibly can, put everyone behind the ball
20:14and then try and work our way into the game from there,
20:17and that probably will be the tactic, but the difficulty with that is that you
20:22then invite so much pressure on yourself that,
20:25against good teams with good strikers, there's every chance they're going to
20:29score a goal or two, so they are going to have to
20:33find a way where they can be strong defensively,
20:37but find an attacking threat. The one reason for optimism
20:44for Argyll is that FA Cup game that I mentioned,
20:48where they went to Brentford, who are top scorers
20:51in the Premier League at home, fantastic home record
20:54in the Premier League at home. Argyll went there,
20:57beat them 1-0 and deservedly so. Thomas Frank
21:01admitted in the post-match press conference afterwards that Argyll
21:03deserved to win, so they did all the things that
21:08they're going to need to do against Sunderland at Brentford, so
21:13they have done it in the relative recent past,
21:16but when you've just come off a 5-0 home defeat
21:21to, admittedly, a good Burnley team, it's a big bounce back
21:28is required, isn't it? People always talk about
21:30bouncing back in football, this is going to be a
21:33big bounce back. It's interesting, you know, because of all
21:37the results that you've just listed, of all the Plymouth
21:41troubles this season, the change in manager, obviously the 5-0
21:44loss last night, I was actually at the Stadium of Light for an Under-21 game
21:47last night and they had Sky Sports on in the background
21:50and there were people around me saying it's 1-0 Burnley, 2-0 Burnley,
21:535-0 Burnley by half-time and somebody turned around and said to me
21:57this has got Plymouth Argyle 1-0 at Sunderland written all over it and
22:01that's just the championship, isn't it? And I say
22:04that to try and sort of boost your spirits a bit, Chris, because
22:07you seem very low at the moment. Well, like I say, it's only a few hours
22:13after I went to sleep after writing up all the
22:15copy from the game and you're right, yes. I mean,
22:19I went to Brentford with not many people expecting anything out of it. Yes, it's
22:24an FA Cup tie and, you know, were Brentford fully
22:28focused on it? Possibly not, but
22:33strange things happen in the championship and, yes,
22:37Argyle are going to need to defend for their lives and if they get one or
22:43two chances, they have to take them. Strange things
22:48happen, so that's what they've got to believe.
22:50It'll be interesting to see, you know, what approach
22:56Miran Musilic takes to the game. This is going to be his first away game,
23:00so the three games he's had so far have all been at home,
23:05so it's hard to give you an accurate gauge of
23:09how Argyle are going to play when I've not seen
23:13Argyle play any away game with him in charge, but
23:17one thing he did do at Circle Bruges was he made them
23:20hard to beat. They were one of those teams that,
23:25you know, the bigger clubs found annoying, frustrating. They were
23:31scrappy, hard to beat. That's clearly what he hopes to do at
23:35Argyle and, yeah,
23:39hopefully we can see some evidence of that on
23:43Saturday. Yeah, honestly, I see it as a potential
23:46banana skin for Sunderland. Obviously, there was the three-two at home park that I
23:49mentioned earlier and I say this not because of anything
23:53Sunderland have really done this season, but Sunderland historically
23:57just generally will at some point do a Sunderland, so it would make sense that
24:01it would happen against, you know, bottom side Plymouth
24:03Argyle after a 5-0 loss, given Sunderland unbeaten at home in the
24:07league this season. So, I think we're all in that mentality
24:11where we're hoping that happens. We're hoping that doesn't happen, but
24:13there's an acceptance that strange things do happen in
24:17football. Just quickly before you go, Chris, I
24:19just wanted to get your thoughts on how ex-Sunderland duo Barley Mumber and
24:23Brendan Galloway are getting on. I understand there's an injury for
24:27Galloway. How serious is that and how impressed have you been by Mumber
24:30since he came to the club? Yeah, unfortunately for Brendan Galloway,
24:34it's a serious injury. He requires surgery and he's going to be out for the
24:37rest of the season, which is very sad for Brendan. He
24:42is a very capable defender who has had a lot of luck with injuries
24:49over his career. I think it was the same at Sunderland, I believe.
24:52Yeah, he was very, very young when he
24:57came to Sunderland. I think he only came for about six months in the
25:00Championship season, so Sunderland fans don't have too many fond memories of him
25:04because he came on loan. Was it from Everton at the time or Chelsea?
25:07Almost certainly Everton, he would have been young.
25:09Everton, yeah. He did terribly but he was so
25:13young in such a poor team with so much going on that it's,
25:16you know, when you make the list of worst ever Sunderland players, he's
25:20probably in it but it's probably harsh on him, to be
25:23fair looking back. Yeah, well, like I say, he's been at
25:28Argyll for three and a half, four years. He's been a good player for them when
25:31he's been fit but, unfortunately, too often
25:35injuries have cropped up for him and this is the latest one of them.
25:39Bali Mamba, you know, has been a really good player for Argyll.
25:46He has got so much energy and enthusiasm.
25:51Like the rest of the team, he's not playing at his best at the moment
25:55but, overall, since he joined Argyll from Norwich
26:00for a million pounds in the summer of 2023,
26:03he's been a good asset for them. It's tough times
26:10for all the team at the moment but he's the sort of character
26:16that you need, you know. Some of you can put some smiles on faces
26:21and things like that so, yeah, I would fully expect him to
26:27start against Sunderland. Not entirely sure where, depending on
26:31our Argyll line-up. He's been playing on right-back, left-back,
26:36right-wing-back, left-wing-back so he could pop up anywhere on the pitch
26:41but, yeah, I'm sure he will be out
26:45there on Saturday and wanting to put in a really good
26:48performance, giving his ties to Sunderland and, obviously, coming from
26:52the North East. No, absolutely. Well, Chris, I appreciate
26:55your time. I hope Plymouth's form picks up after Saturday and I hope your job
27:00becomes a little bit easier at some point
27:02because it is a real grind when it's like this.
27:04No, I shouldn't complain because, you know, we're in the fortunate
27:08position where we get paid to go to watch football and,
27:12yes, it's not always a bundle of laughs. The fans are the
27:17ones that dig deep in their pockets, aren't they, and go to these games and
27:20there will be, I don't know how many, but a good number of Argyll fans
27:25at the Stadium Light. They've not won an away championship
27:29all-game, all-season. It's over 400 miles, 800-mile round trip.
27:34Goodness knows what time they'll be leaving on the coaches on Saturday
27:37morning but they'll be there, they'll be
27:38supporting the team and, yeah, so I hope for their sakes, as
27:44much as anything, that they get some reward for their
27:47dedication to the football club. No, indeed, and fair play to those Plymouth
27:52fans travelling. Thank you for joining us, Chris. You can find Chris's website...
27:54My pleasure, James. Thanks for the invite.
27:56No problem. You can find Chris's work over at Plymouth Live if you want to
27:59read about Morgan Whittaker, the Burnley game and anything leading up to Sunderland
28:02and, as always, you can find all of our work ahead of the Plymouth game over at
28:05the Sunderland Echo website, online and in print. Thanks once again to
28:09Chris and we'll see you next time.