ducation Secretary Bridget Phillipson faced pointed questioning from Stephen Dixon over the government's new initiative to teach children "grit" to tackle growing mental health issues in schools.The exchange came after Phillipson and Health ESecretary Wes Streeting announced plans to help children develop resilience to prepare them for life's "ups and downs" in the classroom.READ THE FULL STORY HERE
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00:00Good morning. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:04You are announcing today new money for mental health interventions in schools.
00:09I think it is broadly acknowledged now that teen mental health has worsened over the last 15 years,
00:14not just in this country but across the entire Western world.
00:17It is broadly acknowledged that one of the principal causes of that is social media and smartphone use.
00:22So why isn't the government tackling that cause?
00:24Why have you watered down the safer phones bill, not introduced a raised age of social media?
00:31Why aren't you tackling the causes of mental health?
00:36Hello, good morning. What we are setting out today is an expansion of mental health support teams.
00:41So up to a million more young people will be able to access that support in school,
00:45which I know is really important.
00:47In terms of the question you ask around the use of social media and smartphones,
00:51where it comes to schools that I am responsible for, I am clear that phones have got no place in schools,
00:57they are disruptive, they shouldn't be there and schools have my full backing in taking action.
01:02But as you suggest, I know that a lot of parents worry about what happens beyond the school gate
01:07and about what young people can be exposed to online.
01:10That is why with Ofcom we are taking action to make sure that dangerous content is taken down.
01:14And of course there is more that we are keeping under a view, more that we will need to do to protect young people online.
01:19But I mean a lot of people would look at this and say why focus on mental health and spend money on that.
01:26I mean I know it is important, but wouldn't people rather you are spending more money on teachers,
01:32more money on building schools, more money on those sorts of issues, proper educational issues
01:37and dealing with a mental health crisis, which I mean not everyone agrees is there,
01:42at least not to the scale it is being reported.
01:44We are doing all of that, but it is an important priority for parents to make sure their children are getting the support that they need,
01:53especially after the pandemic, which did have a big impact on young people's mental health.
01:57But mental health, you know, wanting young people to be happy and safe and well is an important thing in and of itself.
02:03But actually, when you look at the educational impact, the link between poor mental health and poor school attendance,
02:09I think it demonstrates why it is necessary to take action, because if you are not going to school on a regular basis,
02:14it has a lifelong impact, you know, there is clear evidence about the impact it has around getting good GCSEs,
02:21about how much you earn later on in life, and that is why it is important to take action around support for young people
02:26where it comes to mental health, because it makes a big difference to their educational outcomes.
02:30There are absolutely, there is masses of strong evidence linking attendance with success and also poor mental health
02:37with poor attendance, but there is not strong evidence on mental health interventions in school.
02:42And in fact, a report by the Department of Education in February this year, just a few months ago, on the effectiveness of
02:48mental health interventions in school said that they are not cost effective, they raise more issues than they solve, and that careful
02:54consideration should be given to unintended consequences. And in fact, a study from Cambridge University a couple of years ago
03:00showed that actually mental health interventions in schools can worsen teen mental health just because teens spend too long
03:07thinking about their internal problems, giving them labels. Why are you convinced that there is evidence that these
03:12kind of interventions will make things better and not worse, as the evidence suggests?
03:16The mental health support teams that we are expanding are NHS teams, so they use evidence-based interventions,
03:23where the evidence is clear about the effectiveness, and I think the other study that you're talking about...
03:27But I'm sorry to cut in, there is not strong evidence for these kind of interventions for mental health
03:33talking therapies with teens at full stop. There is not strong evidence that they improve the situation.
03:39So I think what you're also talking about in the second study I was just going to come on to say is what the kind of
03:45wider approach that can be sometimes taken where it's not quite so evidence-based, where the evidence-based
03:49isn't as strong around effectiveness. And in terms of the report that was carried out into the impact of
03:55previous waves of mental health support teams, there were challenges that were identified.
03:59It's why we do commission, why governments do commission research projects to understand the impact.
04:05And we've addressed some of that prior to wider rollout. So we've taken on board some of the issues that were flagged.
04:09We are addressing them. But these are trained NHS professionals using evidence-based approaches to
04:15support young people. And I think the important question around mental health, and you both talk there
04:21about labels and how we approach this, it's about, I think, all of us being able to be open about the
04:26struggles we might sometimes face. You know, life has its ups and downs. It's why today I've been talking,
04:31alongside the health secretary, about how we build up a sense of resilience and grit in our young
04:36people so that they are, you know, really well placed to navigate what can be quite a complex and
04:41difficult world sometimes for young people. Yeah, but it's no more difficult and complex than it was
04:46than it has ever been. I mean, the challenges have changed, things have changed, but it's always been
04:51difficult for young people. So why is it now that people had a bit of determination, a bit of resilience, a bit of
04:58grit in the past, and they don't now? Because, I mean, the way you talk about it and the way other
05:03people talk about it, sounds like anyone under the age of about 18 is, frankly, falling apart.
05:12No, far from it. I think it's a good thing that adults and young people alike can be more open about how
05:17we feel, where we might be struggling about life's ups and downs. That is, you know, part of the human
05:21condition. But it is important to put support in place around that. And we did go through the
05:26pandemic that had a really profound and lasting impact on many young people who missed out on some
05:31quite big and important milestones in their lives and spent lots of time away from friends, a lot of
05:36time out of school, not able to do many of the normal things associated with childhood. And I think
05:40that has had an impact. So you ask, you know, what's changed? What's the difference? You know, I think
05:44there are differences. And, you know, we were just talking there about social media, about the online
05:48world, again, another, you know, very big difference to how things were when I was growing up.
05:52Indeed, things have changed enormously. One of the big things that's changed is the
05:56levels of family breakdown. Britain is now has epidemic levels of family breakdown
06:00compared to even other Western countries. And that is one of the causes of poor
06:05mental health for teens. What is the government doing about that?
06:11Yeah, I understand the pressures it can cause. I just tried with a bit of care in terms of
06:17making judgment around people's family and their circumstances. I was brought up by
06:22my mum on her own. We were a single parent family. We were a very happy and loving family.
06:27And families do come in different shapes.
06:29Actually, nobody is denying that many, many single parents do an absolutely brilliant job.
06:32I do recognise that family breakdown... Well, I do recognise that family breakdown can have a
06:38serious impact on young people. It's why we are putting more support in place as a government to back
06:43families. But I do think fundamentally it is a question of people making decisions about
06:48family shape and size, about what is right for them. And I just do tread with a bit of
06:53care in sounding like we are making, you know, I would not want to sound like I am
06:56making a judgment and what people determine is the right thing for them.
07:00All right. Can we ask you a question before you have to go about Albania? The
07:04Prime Minister is there. There is a European meeting today. There is a big Brexit reset on
07:08Monday. All of this. It was heralded, at least on the QT to the media, that these
07:13return hubs might be something that we would see happening with Albania. And of
07:18course, that has fallen flat on its face. So what is the government's plan when it
07:22comes to dealing with illegal migrants? We are in discussions with a number of
07:27countries about return hubs. Albania was not one of those countries. That was never on the
07:31table for discussion. Because we know the long-standing position of the Albanian
07:33government, which is a big part of the government, which is a big part of the
07:35Albanian government, which is that they have an agreement already with Italy and that is
07:40exclusive. But return hubs are only one part of what we are doing. We are seeing record
07:44levels of deportations of those who have no right to be in this country and it is right
07:48that they are returned. We are also deporting more foreign national offenders. Again, people
07:51who have served their time, have committed crimes and have no right to remain here in the
07:54UK. So all of that is up. We are taking action as a government. But we have inherited a
07:58system where people were being left for years on end without their cases being processed.
08:03Instead, we had the Rwanda gimmick that did absolutely nothing. We have put that
08:07money into more enforcement and on processing cases much more quickly so that if
08:11people have got no right to be here, they are removed from this country. Can I
08:15just ask you briefly, because you mentioned returning offenders once they have
08:18served their sentence. Why wait until they have served their sentence? Because it
08:22would clear out about 10,000 prison spaces, which we desperately need, wouldn't it?
08:28We do need more prison spaces and we are going to build more prison spaces because the
08:32prisons are pretty much almost a bursting point. There is a balance here because equally
08:36I think victims would want to be confident that offenders are doing this.
08:40There is a balance here with the L.D.