India revoked security clearance for Turkish firm Celebi at 9 major airports, including Delhi and Mumbai. This comes amid tensions with Turkey over its support for Pakistan and involvement in drone attacks against India.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching India First, I'm Gaurav Sawant.
00:04Turkey's open hostility towards India has angered this nation.
00:10The common man on the street, the tourists who are planning visits to Turkey and the
00:16traders who are importing from Turkey.
00:18Finally, India is saying enough is enough, lakhs of tourists visit Turkey every year.
00:25It may not be very big as far as Turkey is concerned, but every drop matters.
00:30And if and when Indian tourists decide they will not travel to Turkey as long as it continues
00:36to back Pakistan, a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror, then Indians must visit friendlier
00:44places.
00:45Now, there is one more aspect that you must keep in mind.
00:49When Turkey was devastated by that earthquake, India was the first to reach there and help
00:56a country in crisis.
00:58I was there, I was reporting from ground zero, how India helped Turkey once again rise.
01:05Turkey was in trouble at that point of time.
01:07Now, Turkey is not only arming Pakistan, selling those armed drones and long range reconnaissance
01:15drones.
01:16Turkey is also sending its operators, not just to manage, provide logistics, but apparently
01:24two Turkish nationals were killed operating those drones that were killing Indian people.
01:30And India said enough is enough.
01:34Operation Sindoor is that turning point.
01:36Two were reportedly killed, Turkish nationals and Turkey's President Erdogan is openly supporting
01:42Pakistan.
01:45The terror that bleeds India is being supported by Turkey.
01:48And that's been their historic stance.
01:51Indians are saying enough is enough, big story coming in on India first.
01:55It's an India Today impact.
02:01The government has seen the anger on the streets of our country against Turkey.
02:07The government of India has decided to revoke the security clearance of Turkish firm Celebi.
02:15The Celebi airport services in India will no longer have access to nine critical and
02:22crucial airports in the interest of national security.
02:26That is what government decision says it's a big move against Turkey for supporting Pakistan
02:31sponsored terrorism that has bled our country.
02:34So nine of the 10 busiest airports in India, Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai,
02:44Ahmedabad and Cochin.
02:46Imagine nine of the 10 amongst the busiest airports in India were largely being serviced
02:53by a Turkish company called Celebi.
02:56And whether it was cargo handling or ground operations handling, it was being done by
03:00this agency.
03:02So the Ministry of Civil Aviation now says that tenders will soon be issued at these
03:06nine airports where Celebi currently operates to appoint new ground handlers and cargo handlers.
03:12The affected airports are making interim arrangements because now that security clearance
03:18has been revoked, Celebi employees will not get access to these airports.
03:24Arrangements are being made to hire alternate ground handling agencies.
03:29I want to get you more on the story.
03:31Can you imagine it's a Turkish company, a country that's hostile to India.
03:37Coincidentally, Celebi is managed in parts by Erdogan's daughter, who's married to the
03:46manufacturers in the family of the manufacturers of the Bayraktar radar, the unmanned combat
03:52aerial vehicles, the TB2s that Turkey is selling to Pakistan, those armed drones that are bleeding
03:59India.
04:00That is how this nexus is operating.
04:02How is it even permitted to operate in India for so long remains the big question.
04:08I also want to cut across and bring in India Today's Nagarjun Dwarkanath, who joins us
04:13with more on the story.
04:15Nagarjun, bring us details.
04:17Nine airports of this Turkish company, where this Turkish company was handling cargo and
04:22ground operations, nine crucial airports, including Delhi and Mumbai.
04:27What does revoking the security clearance translate into action on ground?
04:33What more can you tell us?
04:35Gaurav, in the last few years, a Turkish company called Celebi was handling the ground crew
04:41movements and also technical support in major airports like Delhi, Mumbai, Hyderabad.
04:46Nine such busiest airports in the country were handled by this Turkish company called
04:50Celebi.
04:51What has happened in Operation Sindhur and how Turkey stood by the Pakistan Armed Forces
04:58and we have taken a stand that the security clearance given to this Turkish company has
05:02been revoked right now.
05:04It's by the Bureau of Civil Aviation Authority.
05:07What happens is that DCAS issues airport entry passes to every person who's working within
05:12the terminal or who are working in the close proximity of the aircraft.
05:15There's something called AEP, which is the airport entry pass.
05:19Once you revoke that entry pass, no person without this AEP pass can enter the airport
05:24vicinity or inside the terminal.
05:27At this point of time, the security cover granted to Celebi has been revoked, which
05:30means that the employees working under this company cannot enter the airport premises
05:35or terminal.
05:36Hence, to put it plain that they can't be working, so hence the work will stop immediately.
05:41Airports have been told to take in midterm measures in terms of ground handling to immediately
05:47take in help from other companies as well till a tender has been floated and a new tender
05:51will be awarded to another company.
05:54This is a move given out by the Civil Aviation Ministry and executed by the DCAS.
05:58DG of DCAS has executed this is what we are told and hence Celebi employees airport entry
06:03passes and also their work will come to stand immediately.
06:08You know there are questions at multiple levels.
06:10Turkey has been openly hostile to India for a very long time.
06:14You know out of the goodness of our hearts, we help a country in an earthquake, we look
06:19after their people, it remains hostile to India, it just shows you know what their attitude
06:24is, what our attitude is, but I want to understand one, why did they have access to nine crucial
06:29airports in India and two, there are reports that seem to indicate that retired Turkish
06:34Air Force pilots are employed in India flying for private airlines or they're flying in
06:41some crucial sectors.
06:43That's a huge security lapse.
06:44They could be landing at sensitive military stations, military airports.
06:49Why would we permit retired Turkish Air Force officers operating in India?
06:53Well that's a big question Gaurav.
06:55In fact how did Celebi get access to nine airports and ground handling in such busiest
07:00airports like all the movements of VIPs happens in Delhi, Delhi airport and they had access
07:05to who's coming, who's going, which flight is landing and they were access to the flight
07:09engineering works also, what were the spare parts coming in, every information that ground
07:13handlers could have, Celebi company had access to it.
07:17The big question is how did the tender go to them a few years back?
07:21That was the question that the government will have to answer.
07:23But seems like the tender was floated and Celebi had won this or awarded, got awarded
07:27this tender a few years back and now the government has woken up that how can a foreign company,
07:31especially a hostile company, hostile country like a Turkey and a company like Celebi have
07:36access to nine such crucial airports in India.
07:39Nevertheless now the government has acted and has stopped their complete work right
07:43now and fresh tenders will soon be called.
07:46Oh absolutely because even if they were L1 in the tendering process, a hostile country
07:52will anyways give you the lowest quote to get that contract because that's how they'll
07:57snoop on you.
07:59Why aren't countries like Turkey banned remains that big question because they are so openly
08:04hostile to India.
08:05They don't even hide their hostility and it hasn't just stemmed here.
08:10It happens year on year on year, whether it's at the United Nations General Assembly, their
08:15open friendship with Pakistan, their arming Pakistan against India, their attitude at
08:21the nuclear suppliers group blocking India's growth, their tango with Pakistan and China.
08:26There are so many aspects that we will discuss during this broadcast with analysts and experts,
08:32but I also want to bring another aspect to you.
08:34When Prime Minister Narendra Modi pledged not just to impose unimaginable costs on that
08:40radical Islamist state sponsor of terror.
08:44Now Pakistan ran to two countries, one China, their master and the other, their brother,
08:53their backer Turkey and both China and Turkey rushed to arm Pakistan.
09:00Turkey sent six military planes, the C-130 transport aircraft and a warship to Pakistan.
09:07Intelligence inputs indicate that Pakistan was being given both armed drones and reconnaissance
09:13drones.
09:14Now some of these were what are known as hail and mail.
09:18Hail means high altitude, long endurance drones and mail means medium altitude, long endurance
09:25drones.
09:26So you can make out long endurance, they can stay in the air at either high altitude, which
09:32is about 35,000 to 40,000 feet plus, or medium altitude between 15,000 to 25,000 feet altitudes,
09:39long endurance for several hours.
09:43Pakistan in some instances did not even know how to operate them.
09:47So Turkey sent its logistics team, maintenance team, which according to reports was not just
09:53handling these drones or logistics, was also using them or handling them during operations,
09:59during kinetic operations against India as part of India's Operation Sindoor when innocent
10:05Indians were being killed.
10:07And finally, once that information came in public domain, Indians have said enough is
10:13enough.
10:17It wasn't just Pakistan.
10:20India thwarted attacks from China made missiles and Turkish drones.
10:24In fact, Turkey played a key role in supporting Pakistan's drone operations.
10:30There are inputs to believe that Turkey not only sold armed drones to Pakistan, but that
10:36there were also some Turkish operators guiding drone operations that targeted Indian civilians
10:42and soldiers.
10:43Sources tell India today that two Turkish military operatives were also killed as part
11:11of Operation Sindoor.
11:13Pakistan has reportedly used Bayraktar TB2 and IHA drones against India.
11:18The drones are believed to be used for target designation and potentially kamikaze strikes,
11:24especially to threaten forward Indian positions or supply convoys.
11:29Turkey's strategic defense ties with Pakistan have grown at an alarming rate in recent years.
11:34The Turkish government has not only supplied critical military hardware, but has also conducted
11:40training for Pakistan's army.
11:42No wonder then that the Turkish president has reiterated his support to Pakistan.
11:48The nefarious terror attack or with the missile attack against Pakistan in a very, we had
11:56a very clear stance.
12:00We expressed our support to the Pakistani public and the tension which reached, reached
12:08serious levels.
12:09And in order to decrease it, decrease it, we made efforts.
12:13The aftermath of Operation Sindoor has exposed a complex China-Turkey-Pakistan collaboration
12:19in drone and missile attacks.
12:21Gaurav Sawant, Bureau Report, India Today.
12:27And let me tell you a little more about the drones, the unmanned aerial vehicles and the
12:31unmanned combat aerial vehicles that Turkey has supplied to Pakistan.
12:36Let's first talk about the Bayraktar TB2.
12:39Now the Bayraktar TB2 is a medium altitude, long endurance drone.
12:45It's long endurance, but it's also slow moving.
12:48So in combat, it can easily be targeted.
12:51It's a UAV.
12:52It can also loiter over the battlefield for quite some time.
12:57And this is what it looks like.
12:59It can loiter over a battlefield for almost 24 hours, gives real time intelligence.
13:06It can also be used as a laser designator for fighter planes to then target any VA or
13:13VP or vital asset or vital point.
13:15It can just paint the target to acquire it for a precision guided munition.
13:20It can, for example, be used to destroy radars or an artillery battery that could be targeting
13:26tanks or air defense systems.
13:28Of course, Pakistan did not succeed and that just shows how India's air defense system
13:33is much better, the Bayraktar TB2 failed.
13:37Let me now tell you about the Baykar IHA-3.
13:41Again this is a Turkish design loitering drone.
13:46It has a tubular body, there you see this.
13:49It has a tricycle landing gear.
13:51Remember, the debris of this was found.
13:54It has about the capability of carrying 35 kgs of high explosives, you know, with the
14:01high explosive warhead.
14:02It's almost like a loitering munition.
14:05It can loiter and then go slam dunk into the target.
14:08It's powered by a Chinese DLE-170 engine.
14:12It can either take off from a runway, it has a tricycle kind of a format for it to take
14:17off as you can see there, or it can also be launched through a catapult.
14:23Then the device that the government was talking about, you heard Colonel Sophia Qureshi talking
14:30about the Songar, the Songar drones.
14:33Now they operate in rather tight spaces.
14:36Now these are the quadcopters, but when you see it, it can either launch an improvised
14:41explosive device or even a machine gun in places like alleys or buildings.
14:47It can engage snipers, it can lob a grenade.
14:50It has a machine gun that can fire very rapidly, it comes equipped with day and night cameras.
14:57It has an inbuilt grenade launcher and can fire not one, not two, up to six grenades.
15:04Now that is the kind of military hardware that Turkey was selling Pakistan or giving
15:08to brother Pakistan during a conflict with India, and yet lakhs and lakhs of Indian tourists
15:15spend their hard-earned money vacationing in Turkey.
15:19If even after this they visit Turkey, then perhaps, you know, they shouldn't expect only
15:24the armed forces to protect them in a war against this radical Islamist state sponsor
15:29of terror called Pakistan that's backed by countries like Turkey and China.
15:33Big, big story coming in.
15:35We're breaking a big story right here on India Today.
15:38India is believed to have fired 15 BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles at Pakistani airbases
15:49during Operation Sindoor in the morning of the 10th of May.
15:54Remember how Pakistan that was virtually threatening India even on the 9th of May, suddenly after
16:01that 23-minute long operation in the morning of May 10th, suddenly was activating the hotline
16:07and seeking a ceasefire.
16:09This is the reason that we get you right here on India Today.
16:13BrahMos is a supersonic cruise missile, flies at the speed which is three times the speed
16:21of sound.
16:22More than 3,700 kilometres per hour is that speed and there is no air defence system that
16:29Pakistan or China or any other country may have that can stop a BrahMos in flight, especially
16:36if it's an air-launched BrahMos supersonic cruise missile fired off a Su-30 MKI.
16:42Su-30 MKI is a Russian-made Su fighter jet, of course, made in India under licence.
16:50It's manufactured in India, lock, stock and barrel, and a BrahMos mated on it, that can
16:58of course take eight tonnes of ammunition.
17:02But imagine a BrahMos on a Su-30, it's perhaps the deadliest combination ever.
17:08So Pakistan Air Force lost its vital assets and vital points at 11 of their 13 airbases
17:18that were targeted on the 10th morning by the Indian Air Force.
17:21And joining me now with more information on this huge story is India Today's Manjeet Negi.
17:2815 BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles fired.
17:32No wonder Pakistan, virtually if I may, metaphorically, on a bent knee, Manjeet, was seeking a ceasefire.
17:40Bring us details, Manjeet.
17:41Well, Gaurab, on the, after the 6th, 7th May drone and missile attack by the Pakistan Army
17:51in the, around the 40 cities, different cities across the Rajasthan, Jammu and Kashmir and
17:59Gujarat, the Indian Air Force launched a massive air action, air raid against the Pakistan,
18:08on 13 Pakistani airbases, and the Indian Air Force launched a massive attack by the, first
18:14time on the, used by the BrahMos missile.
18:17And the, in 8 and 9, total 15 BrahMos missiles has been launched on the different locations
18:25including 11 airbases.
18:29And the aircraft mission carrying the missile-like BrahMos and Scalp flew from the different
18:33airbases in the eastern, in the western air command and the south-western air command.
18:39And the aircraft attacked almost the major airbases of Pakistan, including, especially
18:47the 11 airbases, including Chaklala and the other important airbases.
18:52And the, Gujarat is the first time the Indian Air Force and the forces, first time use the,
18:59this launch, the first time launch of this massive BrahMos attack on the Pakistan airbases,
19:04by, launched by the 15 BrahMos missiles.
19:08Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
19:11India Today's Manjeet Negi getting you those exclusive inputs and remember, once a BrahMos
19:16supersonic cruise missile has been launched, there is nothing that Pakistan has that can
19:21stop it, except of course, seek peace and ceasefire.
19:25It's temporary.
19:26Manjeet, the forces are on a state of the highest alert even now.
19:30Manjeet, before I go back to that story on Turkey's deceit, I want to understand, this
19:36is a hot pause, it's a hot standby as far as the armed forces are concerned because
19:41Pakistan clearly cannot be trusted.
19:44What are your sources telling you about the situation along the line of control, the international
19:48border, the armed forces on a state of absolute operational readiness, anything can happen
19:55anytime.
19:56That's the level of preparedness, Manjeet?
19:58Gaurav, so far the Indian Air Force, especially the Indian Air Force, you know, damaged the
20:09Pakistani air force in a massive manner and the all air defence systems, the, the both
20:16aircraft and the ground system of the Pakistan Air Force, command and control centre, especially
20:22the airway system has been targeted by the Indian Air Force and so, so far the Pakistan
20:29Air Force got a massive, you know, losses, so...
20:34Absolutely.
20:35Absolutely.
20:36Massive losses for Pakistan Air Force, including of their prestige, their pride, today, Manjeet,
20:42many thanks for joining me, today, we can clearly say, Pakistan neither has Izzat nor
20:49Iqbal, the manner in which India has gone after multiple airbases from Skardu down to
20:56Sindh, targeting Noor Khan, their command control centre, Sargodha, Rahim Yar Khan,
21:03Jacobabad, where can Pakistan, you know, they, they claim that their air force was the best,
21:09this is the best that they have, they may be best, India is better than the best and
21:15we've proven it, but then, when it comes to hostile countries like Turkey, they may at
21:20times pretend to be friends, but like Pakistan, they end up stabbing you in the back, remember,
21:25just last year, more than 3,30,000 Indian tourists visited Turkey, this was against
21:312,30,000 in 2022, now year on year, there's actually a 20% increase in the number of Indian
21:38tourists and those who spend big money, they pay big dollars in, in five-star hotels in
21:44Turkey, they travel well in Turkey, how does Turkey pay us back? By contributing to Pakistan
21:50with their drones and their drone operators, but now, Indians are saying enough is enough,
21:55they don't want to buy stuff that's made in Turkey, small, but significant steps being
21:59taken, now, joining me on this India First special broadcast is Air Marshal Anil Chopra,
22:06former Director General of Centre for Airpower Studies, Professor Brahma Chilani is former
22:10advisor to India's National Security Council and Dr. Vailabad is a political analyst and
22:15senior international affairs correspondent, Air Marshal, I want to begin by asking you,
22:21sir, Turkish drones bleeding India is just one part of the story, what's even worse is
22:27Turkish operators were handling those drones during Operation Sindhur and that takes Turkey's
22:33deceit altogether to a different level, doesn't it, sir?
22:36Yeah, Gaurav, before I speak about the Turkish drones, I want to just quickly add one point
22:42about BrahMos, I think it's the best weapon that we have in our military inventory for
22:47surface attack and even anti-ship, shipping weapon. Why? Because you rightly mentioned
22:54that it is supersonic, it's high speed, it's very accurate, we have in large numbers,
22:59made in India. So, all the things are in its favour. I'm so happy to read that such a large
23:05number of missiles have been used for this operation. Now, quickly, I will make a few
23:13points about Turkey. You know, Turkey took Pakistan under its wing as an Islamic country.
23:19Right in the 1950s, they joined CENTO together and they openly supported Pakistan in Kashmir
23:26all the time. They were supporting Pakistan and of course, their military relationship
23:32dates back to many years. You know, F-16 upgrade was done by Turkey for getting the F-16 to 52
23:44plus standard and after that UAVs, you have already covered the details. I will not repeat
23:51this. The Mishak trainer of the Pakistan Air Force is flying with them. They have given to
23:58Pakistan four naval ships. There are a large number of officers who are training between each
24:05other. I must also mention that in their fifth-generation aircraft, the Khan, there are
24:12about 200 Pakistani technicians and engineers who are sitting with them. They are working together.
24:17So, there is a lot of activity taking place and of course, I must also mention that Pak mercenaries
24:23were used by Turkey in Syria, large numbers, maybe 50,000 of them. So, see the kind of,
24:30of course, the most recent one being a large number of drones have been physically flown
24:34and also brought by ship. The Pakistanis went to the Turks immediately after Fahilgham happened
24:39because they knew that the Indians will hit them hard and they brought and you know, we all seen
24:46that Turkish aircraft C-130 has been coming and they have often used, you know, PIA, you know,
24:53codes to deliver and that is one of the reasons why we also wanted to hit Noor Khan Air Base
25:02because that's where a lot of these things are being unloaded. So, you see that the relationship
25:07between these two countries have been large. Military aviation is an area where they work
25:12together. Imagine if they are so close, why should have, why should Turkey have the kind of
25:17access it does in our country, sir? Professor Chilani, isn't this mind-boggling? Turkey,
25:22that's so openly hostile to India, handling cargo and ground operations at nine airports,
25:30including Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai. Well, you know, it's time for India now to
25:38review all these arrangements and Turkish investments in India, such as Turkey's
25:45hostility as Air Marshal Chopra pointed out, that this hostility is a long-standing
25:53hostility towards India. The Indian Embassy in Ankara, the Turkish capital, the road in front
25:59of it was renamed years ago by the Turkish government as Jinnah Road. So, the Indian
26:07Embassy in Ankara is located on Jinnah Road. That is the extent to which they have been
26:13insulting India over the years, but we haven't, we paid them the same coin. It's high time that
26:19we really now employ diplomatic, economic and strategic leverage against Turkey. We need to
26:27engage with Turkey's opponents in the region, countries that are critical of the Turkish
26:33President. The Turkish President has been pursuing new Ottoman policies and most importantly,
26:41we need to employ economic measures, review trade relations with Turkey, impose tariffs,
26:48impose tariffs on specific Turkish goods. We don't, we don't employ tariffs as a weapon,
26:54the way Trump has been doing, you know, against all countries, but we have shied away from
27:01from employing tariffs even against China, despite what China has done to India.
27:08And I think that Turkey is a test case, whether India is willing to inflict tangible costs.
27:17In fact, what India should be doing is highlighting how Turkey is aiding and abetting
27:24Pakistan's terrorism. This means raising the issue at the UN and also working with the FATF
27:31to ensure that Turkey is fulfilling its obligations to combat terror financing. And
27:39we can also discreetly support Kurdish groups. After all, they are supporting
27:45Kashmiri groups. Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed so openly when they support the
27:50Pakistani regime. Sir, stay with me. I want to bring in Dr. Vaheel Awad, because Professor
27:55Chilani raised a very valid point that Erdogan, President Erdogan sees himself as some new
28:02khalifa, some new caliph, it seems, Dr. Awad, is that his desire to be seen as the new caliph of
28:08Turkey, leading the new Ottoman Empire, leading the Ummah? And that is why it's choosing Pakistan
28:16against India. Is that your appreciation also? Well, I have been saying it for years,
28:22ever since the Baghdadi appeared on the sense of the Daesh and the ISIS, I said the de facto
28:28khalifa is Erdogan. So I have never changed my position on Erdogan's ambition to expand its
28:34Islamic influence from Mauritania to Jiangping to Uyghur in China. So therefore, he has been
28:40working on since 2011, where he started with the Arab Spring, where most of the Arab country's
28:46governments have been toppled because of his involvement, especially in joining hands with
28:51the Muslim Brotherhood Organization, who hijacked the aspiration of the people of the region who
28:56wanted to look, looking for aspiring democracy. So Turkey has played the card of the Islamist
29:02movement to take a lead, Turkey, in the world. And Syria is the best example to see that the
29:08conflict in Syria currently is between Israel and Turkey, who can grab more land, rather than
29:13it has been between Iran and Israel four years ago before the toppling of Assad regime. But having
29:18said that, I would say that also you should take in consideration that there is a strategic
29:23partnership between Pakistan and Turkey. And there are two issues which you must understand also
29:29here. It's one that in the 22nd of April, when the Mohammad Shahbaz Sharif went to meet with
29:36President Erdogan, he signed with him a 22 MOU agreement, and three of them were actually
29:45on the military basis, and they are having joint ventures in many of the military,
29:50you know, projects. And Pakistan is taking full advantage of Turkey being a NATO member,
29:56Turkey having the sophisticated arms which they have used in this war. These are the issues. So
30:02nothing new in this, except that Pakistan also discovered oil on the offshore of Pakistani side,
30:10where Turkey's companies are moving forward. So you cannot break this relation, neither in the
30:15economic front, nor in the religious front, where they are reviving the Islamist movement all over.
30:22And that's why India has to tighten its belt, because what happened in Bangladesh,
30:26what happened in Pakistan, what's happening in Afghanistan and CIS country,
30:30is all worrisome for India as well.
30:32Oh, it indeed is. And once they start fishing in troubled waters in India's neighbourhood,
30:37Professor Chilani, before I bring in Air Marshal Chopra, this Arab Spring, and I was covering it
30:44in Cairo, and I saw the violence, the rampage that followed there, the situation kept deteriorating.
30:53And even there, in hushed tones, there was talk about Erdogan messing around. But in hushed tones,
31:01there's always been a conversation that people like President Erdogan of Turkey,
31:07Imran Khan of Pakistan, and the regime in Malaysia, that time it was Mahatma Mohammad, but
31:13even then, we were told that they are trying to remove Saudi Arabia as the leader of the Muslim
31:21world. And Turkey wants to emerge as the leader of the Muslim world, that Pakistan and Malaysia
31:27will back. Why are countries like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates permitting this,
31:33when Erdogan is so openly hostile towards them?
31:38Well, there is a rivalry, a split in the Muslim world between Turkey on one side,
31:47Saudi Arabia, UAE on the other side. Turkey has good rapport with the Emir of Qatar. So,
31:59Qatar is on Turkey's side. So, there's a clear split in the Islamic world.
32:06And Saudi Arabia and Qatar are virtually a dagger's drone.
32:10Yes. And as you rightly pointed out, at one time Malaysia was part of the Turkish-led
32:19clique. But what's interesting is that Pakistan is able to straddle both camps. It goes to both
32:26Saudi Arabia as well as to Turkey. That's very interesting because most of the other Muslim
32:32countries tend to be either in one camp or the other. But Pakistan very deftly has been
32:39able to play both sides and extract concessions from both sides. It has received bailouts from
32:46Saudi Arabia. It's receiving substantial military assistance from Turkey. So, clearly, Pakistan
32:55has done well by exploiting this rift in the Arab world to its advantage. But I think
33:07in terms of what India can do against Turkey, we should not forget that it's not just Turkey.
33:13India has allowed the bilateral trade surplus with China to cross India's aggregate
33:23defense budget. So, that really, in effect, what India is doing is underwriting China's
33:30economic and geopolitical power by allowing China to have such a mammoth trade surplus with India.
33:37In fact, I don't have the latest figure, but for 2022, that's three years ago,
33:43India contributed nearly 12% to China's overall trade surplus in the world.
33:49And it's China, Turkey, and Pakistan together that were bleeding us, even during Operation
33:56Sindhur, Air Marshal. Before I come back to Turkey, and since Professor Chalani has specifically named
34:02China, I want to quickly understand from you. In Operation Sindhur, from what India today has been
34:08able to pick up from sources, so there were these JF-17 Thunders and the J-10Cs that Chinese aircraft,
34:17some built in Pakistan, some built in China, the PL-15 long-range air-to-air missile. There are
34:23some reports that seem to indicate or some information that it was Chinese operators,
34:29whether they were in Pakistan or was the satellite operated or elsewhere,
34:34they were guiding these operations. Were they even firing these weapons in your appreciation, sir?
34:40You know, Gaurav, undoubtedly, you know, with 80% of the ability,
34:44hardware with Pakistan coming from China, China has a great role. You know, and most of the
34:49systems that have been delivered to them in the last eight, ten years, there are technicians,
34:54there are engineers, there are a large number of other support people who are sitting in various
34:58air bases and command and control centres. You know, HQ-9 has come to them very, very recently,
35:04just a two-and-a-half-year-old system with them. And similarly, some of the other aircraft like
35:11J-10 has just come to them recently. And for the next five, seven years, we expect these
35:15people with them. So, therefore, now Pakistan does have satellites of their own. They are
35:19dependent on ISR and targeting with China for satellites. So, therefore, there is a great
35:26amount of work and coordination going on because the entire military system of Pakistan is of
35:31Chinese origin. And therefore, including surface-to-air missiles, air-to-air missiles,
35:36as you mentioned, P-15. So, therefore, there must have been and there would be and that's
35:45what we are reading reports all over the world that Chinese have been supporting Pakistan. You
35:49know, it's very important for China because for the first time, their equipment is in combat.
35:54And if their equipment gets shamed, which I think we have reasonably done, then their
36:02equipment will not sell. As it is, you know, J-15, J-17, who all have bought Pakistan and
36:08Myanmar and Nigeria and they've been doing badly. They've had cracks on their airframe skin and
36:15the Myanmar has practically grounded them. They are just three with Nigeria and numbers may not
36:20go up. So, my contention is the Chinese were very worried and I think they supported them,
36:27including, you know, carrying out their air defence operations and also wanting to try and...
36:32I want to come back to this China bit in just a moment because,
36:36Professor Chalani, I want to bring in Dr. Vail Awad. Chinese equipment proved to be sub-par
36:42in instances because if a live PL-15 was recovered, which means the propellant ran out,
36:47but the missile didn't hit the target. If the Honki-16 or the HQ-9T, their air defence system
36:54was taken down by the Harps and other systems in India, it just goes on to show if a radar
37:00cannot protect itself, how will it protect Lahore city in future? So, Chinese equipment,
37:06Beijing will be very embarrassed, but I want to come back to Turkey for just a moment,
37:12you know, Dr. Awad. Why should a company like Celebi have access to multiple airports,
37:17nine airports in our country? You know, the way they handle cargo, the way they handle movement
37:23of passengers, including VVIP passengers, they will have access to all data, all information and
37:28data could really compromise India's security. So, somebody in the government here also needs
37:34to answer. You know, the way we support Chinese investments and Chinese economy and the way we
37:42are encouraging Turkey's economy, we really need to wake up, Dr. Awad, to Turkey's hostility.
37:49Well, let me just make a small comment before I come back to you on this. Actually,
37:53we are underestimating the Chinese power on this region. I think what Pakistan is having
37:58is the fourth generation of the Chinese. You see JP-10, the Chinese having JP-35 and JP-36,
38:05which is a huge, sophisticated weapon, and I think that's what worries the United States
38:10and the West, that China is surpassing in their technology in many fronts, by the way,
38:17many fronts, though I wouldn't comment much on this because I leave it to the army
38:21personnel or to an expert to talk on those things. But Turkey, for example, India has
38:26been diversifying its sources of buying arms from all over the world. They have been also
38:33abusing soft power policy in getting India recognized. You see, we know that India,
38:38for the last two decades, has been on the uprising and have a reputedly
38:43unrespectable position globally. So I think that's why India continued that sort of relation
38:48with all the nations. Even Turkey approached India, by the way, for having many cultural
38:53exchanges, but India was reluctant because they knew the intention of Turkey. But in business
38:59and in terms of relation, I think that the government has to decide who is good and who is
39:03bad and why shall we feed the Chinese when we need the Chinese or why shall we allow Turkey
39:09when we need. So people to people there. My take on this, actually, there is no question of going
39:14for a full-fledged war in South Asia, whether we like it or we don't like it. What we need to see
39:20at this point of state is let us activate a forum or some maybe Shanghai corporation in bringing
39:26down tranquility. There is no question that we can see a destruction. You know what will happen
39:32for India and Pakistan if this war really went a full-fledged war. The world will be watching
39:37and the global peace and security will be at risk. But I think India is taking diplomatic
39:42move internationally to isolate Pakistan. If we concentrate on those issues and bring people to
39:48the table to discuss, I think there we can achieve and India can win not only militarily,
39:53but can win politically, economically and also globally. No, I completely agree with you. But
39:59then how do you bring somebody to a negotiations table that wants to kill you on that same table?
40:05It wants to ask you your religion and then shoot you in your head at point blank range and then
40:10probably have a meal at that same table. You know, that's that mindset of Pakistan state sponsored
40:15radical Islamist terror. And trust me, I've covered it for three decades. Pakistan won't
40:20change, Professor Chilani. I mean, I just want to tell you what Mr. Juswan Singh said it once.
40:26He says you can't you can't choose your neighbor. So let's do it. No, I know I can't choose my
40:33neighbor, but I can choose to hit him so that he knows not to strike me. And that's very clear.
40:37M. Ashok Chopra, the 15 BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles were a message that that state sponsor
40:43of radical Islamist terror would learn that, yes, we can't change our neighbor, but we can put him
40:49in his place. Yeah, you know, see, the scene was taken at the political level, at the highest
40:56political executive level. And we have, you know, we have shown lots of maturity for the last 30
41:04years after the 2008 Mumbai attacks. We've used diplomacy. And then after Yuri, we went into
41:10a deep strike, some strike across the LOC. And now then we did a deep strike. And now
41:17we have been telling them that we will take it that much and no more. And I think that is what
41:23was the aim of this exercise. Immediately after the strike on the terror targets, the
41:30military had spoken to each other that our aim was to punish terror, not to hit military and
41:35civil targets. We didn't want to escalate. But then the other side decided to send drones all
41:41across the country, right from Sindhagar down to, you know, Bhuj and Nalliar. So therefore,
41:47a large number of 400-odd drones came in. They tried to hit military and civil targets. And
41:52they got an appropriate response. So it is, you know, the dynamics in South Asia are going to be
41:58like that. And a new normal has been created. Airpower will be used. The militaries are still
42:02on hot standby. They are, you know, absolutely ready. And we are hoping that no side will take
42:08a foolish act. I agree with Dr Sahab that, you know, we all need to be matured. Yes, the government
42:17has done that. When the proposal for ceasefire came, we did that. But that doesn't mean that
42:23we will let terror carry on, you know, to bleed us. You know, the last 30 seconds I have on this
42:30part of the show, Professor Chalani, the apprehension is Pakistan has realized militarily,
42:35it always knew it can never defeat India. Militarily, it had learned that lesson. However,
42:40it may still use terror as an instrument of its policy. And this time, perhaps through the
42:45Bangladesh route, the Nepal route, some other route to bleed us and then say, not us, you dare
42:51not target us. Well, I think India is the only country in the world wedged between two closely
42:59aligned nuclear powers, China and Pakistan, both of which lay claim to sizable swaths of Indian
43:08territory. And this nexus is imposing significant costs on India and contrary to the assertion that
43:19you cannot change neighbors, the biggest developments in modern world history
43:28have been the change of neighbors. How did China become India's neighbor? Not because of
43:34the use of annexation, because of annexation occupying Tibet, the disintegration of the
43:40Soviet Union created new neighbors for countries. Yes. So, the biggest developments in the world
43:47in modern history have been the change of neighbors. How did Bangladesh emerge?
43:52Very good point, sir. Perhaps we need Sindhu Desh as our neighbor and we need an independent
43:58Balochistan as a neighbor next to Sindhu Desh and a separate Pashtunistan. Let's see. I mean,
44:05we don't know, Dr. Awad, we don't know what future has in store for this region. I've
44:11run out of time, but Professor Chilani makes a very pertinent point and I leave all our viewers
44:16with that thought. A powerful Pakistan, does a powerful Pakistan mean it will continue to bleed
44:23us? And a jelly state Pakistan, jelly state, when it can't handle its internal affairs,
44:28does a jelly state Pakistan mean more safety and security for India? So, Prime Minister Narendra
44:36Modi had busted Pakistani fakery in style. He landed at the Adampur airbase early morning.
44:45Pakistan had falsely claimed that it had targeted the Adampur airbase, but that isn't all. Pakistan
44:51has also claimed it had targeted India's S-400, the Sudarshan Chakra air defense system and a
44:58MiG-29 fighter jet. Prime Minister Narendra Modi stood with that S-400 behind him, flanked by the
45:06MiG-29 and with air warriors shouting Bharat Mata Ki Jai in style. Now, Pakistan's Prime Minister
45:16tried to imitate him, but a cheap copy of what the Prime Minister did. Of course,
45:21he couldn't visit an airbase, most of their airbases are destroyed, so he went to a military
45:26garrison. He chose one that India had struck and struck hard. We get you more in this report.
45:34Bharat Mata Ki Jai
45:39After the successful execution of Operation Sindoor, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on
45:44Tuesday visited the Adampur airbase in Punjab, quashing all baseless Pakistani
45:49claims that the base had been hit. While lauding the bravery of Indian forces,
45:55Prime Minister Modi showcased the S-400 missile system falsely claimed by Pakistan to have been
46:02destroyed. While India celebrates a real victory, Pakistan is busy celebrating a fake one.
46:10With Pakistan's airbases damaged by Indian strikes,
46:13Prime Minister Sharif was unable to fly. Instead of using an aircraft,
46:18he had to travel by jeep to reach the so-called military base or what remains of that.
46:25Pakistan's Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif and Army Chief General Asim Munir were brutally
46:31trolled for copying Prime Minister Modi and visiting Pakistani military sites a day later.
46:54While Prime Minister Modi visited Adampur airbase to boost
46:58soldier morale and celebrate the success of Operation Sindoor,
47:01Shahbaz Sharif toured Pasroor and Sialkot airbases,
47:06making false claims of victory under Operation Bunyan-Al-Marsus.
47:12Peddling propaganda, Shahbaz Sharif stood in front of a few hundred soldiers and a couple of
47:17tanks claiming Pakistan had defeated India and calling it revenge for the 1971 war.
47:23But despite Sharif's best efforts to spread lies, the internet was quick to call him out,
47:29trolling the Pakistani establishment with brutal precision.
47:33While India has been exposing Pakistan of its bluff, Pakistan is just becoming a laughing
47:39stock in the world. This is Shivani Sharma with camera person Manish Biduri for India Today from
47:45New Delhi. So as you saw in that report, Pakistan's Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif went by road
47:52because their airbases have craters in them. Pakistan's Prime Minister has constantly been
47:57lying, making baffling claims they've been busted one after the other. And if Pinocchio
48:04had lived in 2025, he perhaps would have looked like Shahbaz Sharif.