The Supreme Court has sharply rebuked Madhya Pradesh minister Vijay Shah over his controversial remarks about Colonel Sophia Qureshi. The court refused to stay a High Court order for criminal proceedings against Shah, stating a person in public office must uphold certain standards. The BJP has condemned Shah's statement but has not taken action against him yet, sparking debate over political compulsions versus national pride. In the aftermath of Operation Sindhu, the BJP has launched an 11-day nationwide Tiranga Yatra to honor the armed forces, while the Congress has countered with its own Jai Hind Yatra. The BJP aims to create a wave of patriotic sentiment, while the Congress claims to be the first to start such a yatra. Both parties are attempting to politically leverage the success of the operation, with debates arising over the ceasefire and potential foreign intervention.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening, viewers. You're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary.
00:03Let me quickly take you through the top stories we're tracking in this hour.
00:09External Affairs Minister Jai Shankar hails Operation Sindhu,
00:13says Pakistan sought ceasefire after May 10th strikes,
00:16reiterates Prime Minister's message and terror and talks will not go together.
00:21Ads only discussion in Kashmir will be that of Pakistan occupied Kashmir.
00:31Defence Minister Rajnath Singh lauds braves of Operation Sindhu in Srinagar,
00:36warns Pakistan on nukes, urges global nuke watchdog to act against Pakistan.
00:42Pakistan Prime Minister poses with tanks after air battle.
01:02Pakistan air battle thwarted by India repeatedly.
01:05Pakistan Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif makes a mockery of himself and his military.
01:12India's terror hunt up close. Final assault on Pulwama terror hideout on camera.
01:23Six out of 14 terrorists in forces hit list killed.
01:28Donald Trump's big claim on trade talks with India,
01:34says India has offered zero tariffs. India yet to confirm US claim.
01:40After India today reported Turkish firms linked ground operations at Indian airports,
01:52civil aviation body cracks the whip, security clearance for Selebi revoked.
01:58Civil Aviation Minister reassures action.
02:01Big President response on Supreme Court fixing deadline.
02:10President asks can Supreme Court fix deadline for President Governors.
02:14Government invokes rarely used power of President.
02:31Colonel Sophia Qureshi and Wing Commander Vyomika Singh became the face of the defence forces,
02:37holding daily media briefings during the India-Pakistan conflict last week.
02:42Two women from two different faiths. The message was simple.
02:47India is united against terror.
02:50Now a Madhya Pradesh Minister's statement referring to Colonel Sophia Qureshi has sparked a ruck.
02:57The Congress staged protest demanding the minister's sacking.
03:27We sent his sister.
03:29Whom did we send? Terrorists?
03:32Or for whom did we send?
03:34Such a minister should resign now.
03:37I request Narendra Modi.
03:39Vijay Shah's statement was irresponsible.
03:44I believe this statement should be made clear to BJP.
03:48Was this statement of Vijay Shah or BJP?
03:54If this statement was of Vijay Shah, then take it from him.
03:57The minister initially defended the statement.
04:03Don't look at my speech in a different context.
04:07I want to tell those who are looking at it in a different context,
04:11that it is not in that context.
04:13She is our sister and she fought with the army with a lot of strength.
04:17As political heat mounted, Vijay Shah backtracked.
04:23We can't even think of insulting the military and sister Sophia.
04:29More than our own sister, I salute the work she has done for the country and the society.
04:38If she or anyone else is hurt by what I said, I apologize ten times.
04:45The Madhya Pradesh High Court stepped in on Wednesday, ordering an FIR against Vijay Shah.
04:52The minister's statement has triggered an unwarranted controversy
04:57at a time when the country has put up a united front against Pakistan-sponsored terror.
05:03Bureau report, India Today.
05:09Now, what's also happened is that Mr. Vijay Shah approached the Supreme Court
05:14to stay the High Court order on initiating criminal proceedings against Mr. Shah.
05:20And it's interesting because those criminal proceedings would have practically taken place
05:24under what was an original law of sedition.
05:27The Supreme Court today came down heavily on the minister of Madhya Pradesh.
05:34The Supreme Court, with the newly minted CGI, taking on the minister, stating,
05:40a person holding such a public office is expected to uphold certain standards.
05:47Every sentence uttered by this minister has to be with responsibility.
05:52You show some sense of sensibility and go apologize to the High Court.
05:56Also stating that this is preposterous, unacceptable, insensitive.
06:03The Supreme Court sharply rebuking Madhya Pradesh Minister Vijay Shah
06:08over his controversial, communal, sexist, derogatory remarks against Colonel Qureshi.
06:16You had the Chief Justice Gawai himself questioning the conduct, asking,
06:20what sort of comments are you making? You should show some sense.
06:25Go and apologize to the High Court.
06:28Refusing to stay the High Court order which was asked for criminal proceedings to start,
06:33where it comes down to this minister on your television screen.
06:37At the back of that, certain questions that we pose this evening before we bring in our guests.
06:43Why is the BJP being soft on the Tribal Minister Vijay Shah?
06:49Is a question that we ask and to the point this evening.
06:52Viewers, because till now the BJP hasn't taken any action.
06:57You've had the likes of senior leadership like Uma Bharati openly asking for the sacking of Vijay Shah.
07:03But the BJP till now has taken absolutely no action.
07:09Why is the Madhya Pradesh Police shielding Vijay Shah?
07:12Something that was put forth by the High Court as well.
07:15Because the High Court not happy with the framing of the FIR against Vijay Shah.
07:22They asked for stringent action to be taken.
07:24They were not happy with the way the FIR was being framed.
07:28The High Court has even gone to the extent to suggest that the administration is trying to shield Vijay Shah.
07:36BJP picking political compulsions over national pride is the question we want to ask this evening viewers.
07:43Because ultimately is it because Mr. Shah is a prominent tribal leader.
07:49Where the state of Madhya Pradesh is concerned that has a sizable tribal population.
07:55And they have picked political compulsions over what is clear national pride.
08:01He's a man who's downrightly been sexist, communal, derogatory to a soldier in uniform.
08:08Even if we forget the gender for once.
08:10Let's cut across and take these questions to our panelists this evening.
08:14Joining me Dr. Syed Zafar Islam, National Spokesperson, Bharatiya Janata Party, Wing Commander, Anuma Acharya.
08:20National Spokesperson, Congress, retired.
08:22She's now with the Congress, Anuma Acharya.
08:25Usually we put the rank with the person because now you are with the Congress.
08:30Allow me to call you just Anuma Acharya for this debate.
08:35Lalitha Kumaramangalam, former chairperson, NCW also joins us.
08:39So does squadron leader, retired, Varlin Panwar.
08:43She's a defense expert.
08:45I want to immediately cut across first before I cut across to our political spokespersons here.
08:50To the former chairperson of the NCW.
08:52Lalitha Kumaramangalam, two things I want to highlight here.
08:56The NCW has stepped in though criticizing what's happened.
09:01And one would think that the NCW completely toothless here as well, Lalitha Kumaramangalam.
09:06Because ultimately just last month the NCW had at least summoned certain individuals who they thought were in the wrong.
09:15Because they made some statement in some OTT platform.
09:19And it seemed the NCW was way tougher on the likes of them.
09:23And something in this department, because it seems to concern the political outfit, the NCW just criticizing what the minister says and nothing else.
09:32Look, I think that both the media and the Congress are overplaying this incident.
09:38This gentleman should definitely have spoken with much more responsibility.
09:42And I think he probably spoke in Hindi.
09:46So when it's said in English, it sounds quite different.
09:49I'm not approving of what he said.
09:51I think what he tried to say, that look, I mean, you know, the Pakistanis.
09:56What I find reprehensible in what he said is his reference to religion.
10:01I don't think he was trying to be gender biased.
10:03Many people, it's said very commonly in language.
10:06I grew up in Delhi, so I know how these things are said.
10:09However, he's a minister.
10:11He should have taken note.
10:12He should have been much more careful of how he put it across.
10:15It's not sedition.
10:16That is ridiculous.
10:17That's just a political gimmickry by non-BJP parties.
10:22This gentleman should be asked to apologize.
10:25I'm sure he will if he's told to.
10:27And too much is being made of it.
10:29Yes, but he should not have made that statement.
10:32Any minister, any person in public office must display more responsibility.
10:37He probably sort of got away with his emotions or whatever, but that is not how a minister should be.
10:42You must have more control over what you say.
10:44That bit I agree with, but it's not sedition.
10:46And I don't think it's gender biased.
10:48What he was probably trying to say is that she being a Muslim, which he shouldn't have said, I agree.
10:53But what he was trying to say was she being a Muslim, even she went against the Pakistan.
10:58So what is Pakistan?
11:00I mean, think of itself.
11:01There's no victory, et cetera, et cetera.
11:03He should not have put it that way.
11:04The way he said it was wrong.
11:06But I don't think, and I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong, that he had very wrong intentions.
11:12It was not gender biased and it's certainly not sedition.
11:15But yes, it was incautious.
11:17It was impolite.
11:19It was very rude.
11:20And it should not have been.
11:22He could have used different words or different language to convey what he was trying to say.
11:26Insofar as the NCW is concerned, please understand that they have to stick to the law of the land.
11:32It's not seditious.
11:34If you know the law, you'd understand that what he said is not seditious.
11:38Also, you can't call it gender biased, perhaps, but it's not against gender laws.
11:46He did not invoke gender as such.
11:48He said, use the word sister, behen.
11:51Again, let me say this again.
11:53I don't approve of the way he said it, but I really doubt if he meant it in a seditious or a gender biased way.
12:01Indian courts are also known to overreact.
12:03I'm sorry, maybe I will be now called to task for saying something like this.
12:07But it's not as if everybody is doodh ka dhoola, you know.
12:12And well, perhaps the court didn't like the fact that he questioned something that was done by a member of the armed forces in an emergency.
12:25It is true that as a family, we must stick together in an emergency, which is why I'm saying he need not have said what he said, especially not the way he said it.
12:35He should not have done that. He should apologize.
12:38Ms. Kumara Magalam, he's apologized not once, but twice over.
12:42But having said that, what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask our producers to call out exactly what he said.
12:46Because I think, you know, there is, you know, something's lost in translation.
12:50Because if you think it's not sexist, because in the other line, the kind of language that he used, especially in terms,
12:56and I really don't want to say it on national television, is quite sexist.
13:01And his words were deeply communal as well.
13:04And, you know, I don't, and I, you know, I rarely disagree with you, Kumara Magalam.
13:08You know, but ma'am, I do not think that the media is making a big deal out of nothing,
13:13because I think a big deal or a bigger deal needs to be made out of it as well.
13:17This is a man who's repeatedly has made sexist statements.
13:21The last time, you know, he was suspended from the Bharatiya Janata Party was when he made a deeply derogatory statement against the then chief minister's wife,
13:31who was from the BJP, and he was suspended from the party.
13:34Of course, political compulsion so demanded that he be bought in.
13:37But I just want to put that there.
13:39And I'm going to, I'm going to make you hear it again.
13:41And like I said, maybe there's something, you know, that has been lost in communication here.
13:45I want to bring in squadron leader, Panwar, defence expert, who's also with us, squadron leader, you know, Panwar, what do you make of this statement?
13:55The High Court, of course, has come down heavily.
13:58They've even reprimanded the local police for not being firm enough in the FIR.
14:06Good evening, Preeti. First of all, you know, I've heard the statement and it is disheartening.
14:14Not because, you know, he has made a statement like this, but it is disheartening because he's a politician.
14:23He's holding a position where he can address so many people.
14:28He can influence so many people, you know, and I would like to tell all the audience watching this show that armed forces is secular in nature.
14:39And there are two places which has no place in armed forces.
14:45Number one, gender and number two, religion. All that we care is about mission and integrity that we hold in armed forces.
14:57There is a reason that we wear the same type of uniform.
15:01You know, there is no place for any attachment of religion in our armed forces.
15:07And I would also like to cover that this gentleman can definitely go and apologize on 100 platforms.
15:14But what are we going to do about the psychology?
15:18This is that is something that is, you know, we need to pay attention that someone who is holding such crucial position is making such remark about an officer who we have seen was covering such important briefing for the entire nation.
15:34Okay. All right. I want to cut across to a political guest right now.
15:38You know, I want to go to the BJP spokesperson, Dr. Syed Zafar Islam.
15:43Dr. Islam, you know, usually you're a very even tempered and a very reasonable man.
15:47And therefore, you know, you've practically come to defend the indefensible.
15:51But I will ask you a question. You had Miss Uma Bharti today who practically said that if we have any shame, we should sack this individual.
15:59Why is the BJP not till now reacting or at least suspending this man?
16:06Does the BJP feel that he hasn't said anything wrong?
16:14Let me first respond to you that what he said is absolutely wrong.
16:20That's our stand that whatever he has spoken is wrong.
16:23He shouldn't have said. And he will face the consequences as well.
16:32Because we do not endorse, the party does not endorse such a statement by any of our member.
16:39And since he has made this statement, it is an individualist remark, individualist statement, whatever he meant.
16:46But the intention could be different. But the intended, the consequence of the statement is very different.
16:53And it is something which is, which needs to be condemned. And that is why the party has condemned.
16:58If you are saying the party has not condemned, I'm sure that you must see all the channels.
17:01The party has condemned it. Parties are disassociated with such a statement.
17:05And as far as the action is concerned, there is always a procedure, disciplinary committee is there in the party,
17:11which first issue the show cause notice and then of course based on the explanation the concerned person has
17:19and then on that basis, party takes appropriate, the committee takes appropriate action.
17:25As far as the statement is concerned, we condemned it.
17:28I'm an official spokesperson of the party and I'm telling you that we condemned such a statement.
17:33Having said that, we must also wait for the, since the matter is now in the court.
17:39So I think we must wait for the court to deliver a judgment. The hearing is tomorrow, scheduled for tomorrow.
17:44Let's wait for the Supreme Court's judgment or the observation or this, whatever Supreme Court delivers on this matter.
17:56We need to wait for that. But as far as party is concerned, we do not endorse such a statement coming from
18:02a responsible member or minister of our party.
18:07You know, we're going to take away the timer for this debate because I want to come back to you.
18:11You know, Dr. Rislam, before we bring in the Congress spokesperson,
18:14I want to give our viewers just an iota of who this man is.
18:17He's an eight term MLA for the BJP. He's a key tribal face in Madhya Pradesh.
18:22I want to hark back all the way to 2013.
18:25In 2013, Vijay Shah, who has been a key tribal leader for the BJP, was forced to resign from the state cabinet
18:35because he had made a highly derogatory comment about the then chief minister, Shivraj Singh Chauhan's wife.
18:42And therefore, Dr. Syed Zafar Islam, if the BJP saw it fit to make this man resign from the cabinet
18:50because he had spoken and the statement that he had made was deeply sexist against the former chief minister's wife.
18:57Why doesn't the BJP Dr. Syed Zafar Islam today deem fit to sack this man who has made such a derogatory comment,
19:05which you admit that he has made against somebody who's in uniform.
19:10It's a statement that can be gauged as deeply communal, if not also sexist and derogatory.
19:16I mean, you can't equate the two situations here because that time the matter was not in the court.
19:26Here, the matter is in the court. Matter is being heard in the Supreme Court.
19:30And it is important for everyone to wait when the matter is sub judice and it is in the honorable court
19:37where the hearing is scheduled to take place tomorrow.
19:41As far as I said, in terms of how we see this statement, we do not endorse this statement, we condemn this statement.
19:48I said very clearly and very candidly.
19:51But Dr. Syed Zafar Islam, I'll come back to you on this because when the BJP doesn't take action.
19:56Let me tell you also.
19:58Go ahead, sir.
20:00No, action is always taken based on the committee's report.
20:07Since the matter is in the court, I'm sure that committee will also wait to hear from the court
20:12and then issue a show cause notice and the process what needs to be followed by the committee.
20:18I think we need not jump to the conclusion because that we are not taking action.
20:22When we are saying that we do not endorse this statement, means this statement is something
20:26which is against the spirit of the nation and against the policy of the party.
20:32So, if somebody has crossed that Lakshman Rekha, I'm sure that punitive action will be taken by the party.
20:39Well, you know, the reason why, Dr. Syed Zafar Islam, and I'll circle back to you,
20:43that punitive action is not being taken and what is being gauged,
20:46the reason why it's not being taken by the BJP is because he represents what a sizable 21%
20:51of the population of Madhya Pradesh, which is the tribal population,
20:55and correct me if I'm wrong, which impacts 47 seats of the 230 assembly in Madhya Pradesh,
21:02and that is the main reason why this man is not being removed today
21:05because under any other circumstances, one would have thought that he would have been removed.
21:09I'll also circle back, Dr. Syed Zafar Islam, on, you know, issues that have been raised in the past as well
21:15on certain ministers who continued, you know, to be part of the BJP,
21:21despite strong, you know, charges against them, Brij Bhushan Charan, for example.
21:27But I'll go back right now. I want to bring in the Congress spokesperson into this.
21:31You know, Wing Commander Anum Acharya, Mr. Acharya, the big question here is,
21:37the matters in the court, why try to milk it politically?
21:41That's what's at least on ground in Madhya Pradesh the Congress is seeming to do.
21:47Good evening to you.
21:49Mr. Acharya, go ahead. Yes, go ahead, ma'am.
21:52Yeah, while NCW's former chairperson was pitching for the minister,
21:59we must remember that Vijay Shah is the first minister in Madhya Pradesh's history
22:04booked under threatening national unity. Let that sink in first.
22:10Let's be clear that FIR laws was not for light charges.
22:15They were bigger charges. But what the MP High Court found,
22:20that they literally had to ask, is this even an FIR?
22:25Have the police even read what they wrote? Where are the elements of crime?
22:29This is all was asked by the High Court.
22:32And this is not incompetence. This is deliberate. This is also was established.
22:39All I have to say is the High Court had to step in and tell the government to fix the FIR.
22:44And after that, state of law of order of Madhya Pradesh is already known.
22:49FIR against ministers are being diluted, manipulated and designed to fail.
22:55And government claims and the BJP spokesperson also say that he did not mean this.
23:01One side they are saying they are condemning and the other side they are saying this.
23:05Now next court date is when? Do you know?
23:08It is pushed after the summer vacation when this case will be heard.
23:12That means almost a whole month will pass.
23:15And by then the headlines will have changed.
23:18The BJP knows this. They are just buying time.
23:21We are discussing but by the time this case will come up again,
23:25the public attention would have moved on.
23:28The minister won't resign. The issue will fade from people's mind.
23:32And trust me, BJP will flood the new cycle of fresh headlines to bury this story.
23:38We all know this. This is what is happening. We are just talking.
23:42And when we know, this is not the one-off.
23:45He has a long track record of indecent and controversial behavior.
23:50Not only the two incidents which you brought out.
23:54He has done a similar thing with actress Vidya Balan when she came there for shooting.
23:59He was also found speaking something ill about Rahul Gandhiji, about his marital status.
24:06He was also kind of making a mockery of the transgender community.
24:14He has been doing this. Now he is changing his stance. That's fine.
24:19The ministers and state, Prathima Bagri, some women ministers of Madhya Pradesh,
24:24who are the ministers of state, they are just defending him.
24:27Like NCW former chairperson is also defending him.
24:31But despite all this, the BJP keeps rewarding him with cabinet posts in every government.
24:37From Ms. Uma Bharti to Mohan Yadav.
24:41So when this case is going to be heard later, we all would have forgotten about it.
24:47Today you have organized this debate. Kudos to you.
24:50But we all know where this is going to go.
24:53I want to bring in our guest just one final time for a quick word in.
24:59I will begin with Ms. Lalita Kumaram Mangalam first.
25:03But before I do that, Ms. Kumaram Mangalam, I want you to just hear.
25:06And I want to maybe decipher for you on at least what is the implication of what this man intended to say.
25:13So let's listen in once again and I'm going to come right back to you, ma'am.
25:16Now, Lalita Kumaram Mangalam, the sheer fact that with what he said, and you're saying that it's definitely not sedition.
25:45Many would suggest that it is sedition because he's actually alleging that a woman in uniform is a sister of the terrorist there.
25:55So you're attacking the Indian army. He's claiming that she is one with the terrorists where he says that she's their sister.
26:01I don't think he meant it as a person in uniform.
26:06He meant it as a woman of the same religion, which itself is wrong.
26:09I've said this again, that what he said was wrong.
26:13Being a minister, a person in a position of responsibility, he needs to be more careful about how he says things, how he puts things, regardless of what his personal feelings are.
26:23But it's not sedition. Sedition is stretching it too far.
26:27I agree if I was the person who he was talking about, I wouldn't have been happy with just an apology.
26:32But I don't think that we can sit in on television programs and decide who the government should sack or not sack.
26:38The Congressperson undoubtedly will speak on behalf of her party. I understand her point of view.
26:44I don't know anything about this man. I'm not from Madhya Pradesh.
26:46But if he is a regular serial abuser of women, then I feel that his chief minister should openly pull him up at the very least.
26:55I'm nobody to pass comment on which chief minister should sack which minister.
26:59I don't go to that sort of attention-grabbing headline statements.
27:04You know that very well about me. But as somebody who has always stood for women's rights, I feel it is very wrong of him to question any woman in uniform.
27:14In a time of emergency, it is best that all of us stand together.
27:19Let the courts decide. The courts have already come down very strongly on him, regardless of summer vacations.
27:26I think it's very insulting to suggest that the court will forget. People may forget headlines. The courts don't.
27:33I don't think the courts will go easy on him. They have already been very tough and rightly so.
27:38Let's see what the courts say. But I don't agree when somebody says that after a month the courts will go easy on him.
27:44That's very insulting to our judges who have an enormous amount of experience.
27:49They also know that in times of emergency, every Indian should stand together.
27:54All right. But ma'am, I just want to add that there are many right now who are in jail for sedition of having done way less.
28:03But having said that, you've made your point there. But I want to bring in Dr. Saeed Zafar-Islam back into this conversation.
28:10And Dr. Saeed Zafar-Islam, it's a big question mark now because the BJP clearly disagrees with what he says.
28:17They clearly say that what he said is preposterous. Why is it so difficult then for the Bharatiya Janata Party to step up and sack this man?
28:27Is it just because the Congress is asking for it? Because the brother of Dr. Qureshi has written to the president asking for action as well.
28:37No, let me give a very candid response. I mean, I don't want to politicize this issue between us and Congress or for that matter any other organization.
28:51See, we are talking about somebody in uniform. And if somebody, anybody, whether it's me, you or anybody sitting on this panel or for that matter any citizen of this country
29:01who insults or make a statement which is insulting to the army or armed forces is something which will not be endorsed by any party.
29:09We are not endorsing it. I am saying that as far as the action is concerned, since you are insisting that why we have not taken action as the matter is in the court,
29:18so you will not respect the court or court's judgment. So since the matter is in the court, I think it is advisable for anybody to wait for the judgment of the court.
29:28Let the court pronounce a judgment and then of course it will be implemented immediately.
29:34Had it not been the court, perhaps the honorable party president would have asked the committee to issue a show cause notice by then.
29:49But there is a process to take the action.
29:51All right, I'll just remind you. You can't equate the charges. But if you think it's wrong, Dr. Zafar Islam,
29:58I will remind you that even though the matter was in court, the BJP did get rid of Kuldeep Singh Sengar.
30:03But I'll come back to you. There's no point because there is a party line that you need to take and sometimes you have to defend the indefensible.
30:10And I want to bring in, 30 seconds, the Congress spokesperson and then I need to dip into news break that's coming in.
30:16Go ahead, ma'am. Final take.
30:17Only thing is that we are talking about a women officer. We are talking about a dignified service.
30:23We are talking about a gentleman who has been, has a track record of talking something ill about women, other communities, girls.
30:32He has spoken in a cultural function. He spoke something very ill about the women wearing the clothes.
30:38So if somebody is citing him, even the former NCW chairperson, it is so surprising not only for party,
30:47at least speak for the women and speak for this armed force lady.
30:51You know, I just, a humble reminder, ma'am, you know, I'll just remind you of your own Congress leader.
30:56And has any action been taken against Mr. Watidar, who went ahead in Madhya Pradesh and seemed to suggest that it's all right, you know, gaslighting all the victims.
31:07I am from Madhya Pradesh.
31:09Ma'am, I'm just telling you, I'm just, I'm just, I just want to remind the Congress.
31:13I am from Madhya Pradesh.
31:15Ma'am, I know you're from Madhya Pradesh. I'll also, sir, I'll get you in.
31:18I want to remind Congress spokesman.
31:20Okay, sir. Make your point.
31:21There are, we are talking about.
31:2310 seconds, I want to remember, before you, before she responds.
31:25No, no, before you respond, Congress spokesperson, Tansh Mal, who said Tansh Mal in Madhya Pradesh,
31:31who was the former chief minister, who was he referring to Tansh Mal?
31:35You have to remember that there is a colloquial language.
31:37You have to have some shame.
31:38Okay, it's not about colloquial language.
31:40Arunima Singh, that's where, that's where the lines blur.
31:42Colloquial language, Tansh Mal.
31:43That is where the lines, you know, today the sad part is, the sad part.
31:47Okay, I'm going to come in.
31:49I'm going to come in on this, because it's none the richer.
31:52Because if that's colloquial language, so can this gentleman say that it was colloquial language.
31:57So, one doesn't make the other better.
31:59And I don't think we are doing anything wrong, contrary to what some on the panel might have felt.
32:03That we are blowing up the issue.
32:05We are not.
32:06We are actually going to keep on the issue till action is taken.
32:08Appreciate all our guests for joining us on this debate.
32:11Before we move into the next quick news break that's coming in.
32:19That's just coming in right now.
32:20Inside Scoop on India-US trade talks.
32:22Government sources have told India today, talks with US progressing well.
32:28Manufacturing opportunity for India.
32:32All of this, viewers, has come to light after.
32:36You had President Trump, who seemed to have suggested that India has agreed to zero tariffs where trade talks are concerned.
32:44So, the news break that's coming in.
32:48Seem to suggest that trade talks with US are progressing well.
32:53Manufacturing opportunity for India.
33:18It's very hard to sell into India.
33:20Tim, I said, Tim, look, we treated you really good.
33:23We put up with all the plants that you built in China for years.
33:28Now you got to build us.
33:29We are not interested in you building in India.
33:32India can take care of themselves.
33:33They are doing very well.
33:34We want you to build here.
33:36And they are going to be upping their production in the United States.
33:39Apple.
33:40So, Apple is already in for 500 billion.
33:43Operation Sindhu had the country united.
33:49Even the opposition backed the government.
33:53But the aftermath of Operation Sindhu yet to settle.
33:59But as expected, domestic politics now peaking.
34:04To politically leverage the success of Operation Sindhu.
34:13The BJP has embarked on a nationwide Tiranga Yatra.
34:1811 day long Tiranga Yatra is to honor the courage and sacrifice of India's armed forces.
34:25The Yatra will run from May 13 to May 23.
34:29With events planned across various parts of the country.
34:33The aim to create a visible wave of patriotic sentiment.
34:37With the tricolour held high in towns and cities nationwide.
34:42The Congress claims that it was the first to start a nationwide Jai Hind Yatra.
34:49In a show of patriotism and gratitude.
34:51The aim of the Yatra was to express deep appreciation for the Indian armed forces.
34:56And support for its country's citizens.
35:00While each is calling the other as a copycat.
35:03The political messaging is clear.
35:06To do what it takes to politically milk the success of the Indian armed forces.
35:12Yatra vs Yatra.
35:14Top focus on to the point this evening.
35:42To honor the valor of our armed forces.
35:44But ultimately the political messaging is clear.
35:47The Congress on the other hand doing exactly the same.
35:50So it's one Yatra pitched against the other.
35:53The Congress at least realizing.
35:55That they cannot allow the Bharatiya Janata Party to run away.
35:59With at least what has been the national agenda.
36:03Or a nationalist agenda.
36:06Look you know.
36:08After such a major 18 days of what the country has gone through.
36:14And four day war.
36:16Pehalgam with those widows.
36:19And Pehalgam was targeted at the women of India.
36:23You know to bring widowhood to those women.
36:27To bring suffering to those women.
36:30To see their husbands killed in front of them.
36:32So there was huge anger in the country.
36:34Huge grief this time in the country.
36:36And the Prime Minister promised to avenge those losses.
36:40And he had an operation.
36:42Then came the ceasefire.
36:44Now sections have criticized the ceasefire.
36:47That country should have actually gone and decimated Pakistan.
36:51That is the kind of sentiment in the country.
36:53But in the government's wisdom.
36:55They went in for an early ceasefire after four days.
36:59Now of course questions have arisen about Donald Trump.
37:03US President's role in it.
37:05He himself declared that they had brokered the ceasefire.
37:07And so on.
37:09Now it is only natural that politics will follow.
37:13We are a democracy.
37:15We are a multi-party democracy.
37:17The government and the ruling party will go out.
37:21And put it side of the story about what they have done.
37:24And honor the valor of the armed forces.
37:28And remember the loss of life that was suffered.
37:32During the terror attacks in Pahalgam.
37:35And the Congress as the main opposition party.
37:38Will also use this opportunity.
37:40To mobilize people at the ground level.
37:43And they will also do the Jai Hind Yatra.
37:45And they will raise questions.
37:47About how the ceasefire came about.
37:50And who brokered it.
37:52And the questions that have been raised.
37:54Has Kashmir come center stage in place of terror?
37:57Has India and Pakistan been hyphenated?
37:59Those are questions that have been raised.
38:01And this is only natural.
38:03It is a natural part of democracy.
38:05Politics have to follow.
38:07So I don't think we should be surprised.
38:09Let's see who is the gainer and who is the loser.
38:11A fair point.
38:13There is an election coming in soon.
38:15But Dr. Syed Zafar Islam.
38:17Is the BJP a little, maybe not worried.
38:19But at least, you know,
38:21You know, you have to look into the fact that
38:23The Congress now understands the language of the BJP.
38:25Is now playing on your pitch.
38:27Not allowing you to run away.
38:29What has been, you know,
38:31To leverage the nationalist fervor in the country right now.
38:39On a lighter note, let me just speak for a second.
38:41That if you have a product,
38:43There should be somebody to buy it.
38:45To make you a successful businessman.
38:47Unfortunately,
38:49Congress,
38:51They stand all along.
38:53If you do a back-testing, you will realize that
38:55Congress stand is always to criticize
38:57The army, asking for
38:59Proof of how they have
39:01Conducted
39:03Aerial strike.
39:05Or
39:07They have attacked Pakistan.
39:09They always needed a proof.
39:11This time they have got a proof.
39:13So we, it is Trinidad,
39:15Are being organized for the civil society to participate.
39:17Acknowledge the
39:19Valor of our armed forces.
39:21The contribution they have made.
39:23The way they have attacked Pakistan.
39:25Everything is their achievement.
39:27And our
39:29Members of our party are joining.
39:31Are also participating and speaking about it.
39:33Because it is something which
39:35Every citizen should speak.
39:37Are we not, have we said that
39:39People from Congress party should not join
39:41Trangayatra.
39:43Trangayatra is for every citizen of this country.
39:45But they want to play politics.
39:47That's why they want to organize separately.
39:49But there should be
39:51Some takers for them.
39:53Because they have criticized same armed forces.
39:55Not once but many
39:57Many times.
39:59What they have done
40:03In 2016 or 2019.
40:05Something which
40:07The armed forces should give a proof.
40:09And now when they have proof
40:11They have started doing a copycat.
40:13And organizing a
40:15Vijayatra.
40:17Not Vijayatra, Jai Hind Yatra.
40:19So this Trangayatra
40:21Instead of distancing themselves
40:23Jai Hind Yatra
40:25Instead of distancing themselves from Tranga
40:27They could have also joined us.
40:29Because we
40:31Are not, it is not
40:33Organized at parties platform.
40:35It is organized for the civil society.
40:37And anybody
40:39From any political party.
40:41Any official of the society
40:43Can join us.
40:45There is a reason why they are not joining you.
40:47And maybe Pooja Tripathi will be able to reflect on it more.
40:49Because the Jai Hind Yatra
40:51Pooja Tripathi at one level
40:53For the BJP if it is to claim
40:55Credit of the success of the armed forces
40:57The Jai Hind Yatra from the Congress
40:59Is also to discredit
41:01The BJP from taking any credit
41:03Of asking the credible questions
41:05On what the Congress feels need to be asked.
41:07Whether to tap into the emotion
41:09On why the ceasefire was called.
41:11Was there foreign intervention?
41:13What was the role of President Trump?
41:15Because you are doing all of that in your Yatra.
41:19You know Preeti, my esteemed co-panelist
41:21From Bharatiya Janata Party
41:23Started his statement mentioning product and business
41:25He is actually sounding like Trump.
41:27The national
41:29Valour of armed forces is not a product
41:31And business to be sold.
41:33And that everyone in the country
41:35Should remember of.
41:37I don't remember Bharatiya Janata Party
41:39Inviting anyone.
41:41I gave you a reason to understand.
41:43I really heard you.
41:45Please extend the same courtesy.
41:47I heard you. Please extend the same courtesy.
41:49What do you mean understand me?
41:51Sir, allow her to speak.
41:55Dr. Islam, you have never been the kind to interrupt.
41:57You got a free run.
41:59Bharatiya Janata Party would take out
42:01A 10 day Yatra celebrating armed forces.
42:03It is not Bharatiya Janata Party
42:05Celebrating armed forces is Jai Hind ki Sena
42:07And I think everybody should take out
42:09Some kind of a gratitude.
42:11But what is the biggest question here?
42:13What does Tiranga represent
42:15When they call it a Tiranga Yatra?
42:17Tiranga represents the collective identity
42:19Of 140 million Indians.
42:21This collective identity is shamed
42:23When their cabinet minister
42:25Uses the most vitriolic
42:27Most vile and abusive
42:29Language against Colonel Sophia Qureshi
42:31And that's when every Indian
42:33Is insulted.
42:35The collective identity of Tiranga is insulted
42:37When Vikram Mishra has to lock out his account
42:39Because his daughter was facing rape threats
42:41And nobody batted an eyelid.
42:43That collective identity
42:45Is shamed
42:47When Himani Narwal
42:49The 6th day widow of Lt. Vinay Narwal
42:51Is receiving an abject abuse
42:53And nobody from BJP
42:55Came out to support her.
42:57So that's the difference
42:59Between Tiranga Yatra
43:01And the Jai Hind Yatra.