During a House Appropriations Committee hearing, Rep. Chellie Pingree (D-ME) questioned EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin about proposed budget cuts for the agency.
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00:00Thank you very much, and thank you for giving us some insights into the Oklahoma Mafia that actually rules all that we do.
00:08It's good to get a little sense of that.
00:11So, yeah, I've got a couple questions for you, and thanks for being here.
00:15As I talked about in my opening statement, your budget proposes to eliminate categorical grants to states,
00:21which go toward funding state environmental agencies.
00:24The justification provided for the cut is that, quote,
00:27EPA's categorical grant programs have become a crutch for the states at the expense of taxpayers,
00:33many of whom receive no benefit from these grants.
00:36And it also says states and local governments should be capable and empowered to fund their own programs in order to comply with the law.
00:43In truth, states carry out more than 90 percent of the nation's federal environmental programs.
00:49So I would say that taxpayers actually receive a tremendous benefit.
00:53In fact, states are doing this work because the EPA has delegated the authority to them because it would be too much for federal government to handle.
01:01Without federal financial support through these grants, it is reasonable to believe that states may need to return program implementation to the EPA.
01:09So if your budget eliminates categorical grants, effectively forcing states to shoulder the full cost of critical environmental programs,
01:18how do you plan to handle the fallout when states return these responsibilities to the EPA?
01:23With a workforce already stretched thin, how will the agency manage the surge in permitting and enforcement without these partnerships?
01:30Thank you, Ranking Member, for your question.
01:33There have been a lot of primacy applications that have been submitted to our agency,
01:40including one that I'll be signing off on this afternoon for one state.
01:46And I just signed off on West Virginia primacy.
01:49As I mentioned in my opening remarks, I've signed off on 25 state implementation plans
01:54and inherited quite a backlog, but we're working through as quickly as we possibly can.
02:00We want to be able to work with states to be able to hear their feedback.
02:06But at the moment, the requests coming in as it relates to cooperative federalism have been coming in from all across the country.
02:15We want to be able to grant those primacy applications.
02:18At the moment, we don't have any requests to give back primacy,
02:24and we're not anticipating them at this particular moment.
02:28And as we go through the budget process, maybe you'll hear from someone from your home state
02:35talking about how an impact of a particular proposal might change the course of decisions for them to make in the future.
02:42But right now, the momentum is for states to grab more primacy, not less.
02:47Yeah, and I understand this is about a future budgeting change, but I'm just going to put down a little marker there.
02:55I see a deeply troubling shift to the states in this federal budget that we're looking at.
03:01Having sat through last night's SNAP cut hearing and talking about Medicaid cuts,
03:05much of which will be returned to the states, I know that's a bigger question than just you and your agency,
03:11but I think for all of us as appropriators, we're going to see a big shift of cost back to the states.
03:16I want to talk to you about one other thing right now, and thank you.
03:21I know you've shown interest in the concerns related to PFAS,
03:24and that's been something that you dealt with back in your home state when you were a member of Congress,
03:29and I just want to ask some questions about that.
03:32PFAS continues to be a serious problem for Americans, impacting our water, our land, and our health.
03:37In my home state of Maine, we've been leading the way on addressing PFAS contamination
03:41and hope to continue to work with the EPA to ensure all Americans are protected from PFAS pollution.
03:47The most recent PFAS drinking water standard will go far to protect Americans from PFAS contamination,
03:53but there still are challenges to these standards in court,
03:56and just yesterday, the agency announced steps to weaken the rule by rescinding the regulation on four types of PFAS,
04:03developing an exemption framework and delaying compliance.
04:07The science is sound, and there's no question that PFAS is harmful to human health,
04:11so why is the EPA not fully committed to defending all PFAS rules?
04:16Why would the agency consider an exemption to harmful pollutants in our drinking water?
04:20And how will the integrity and innovation of research for PFAS be upheld in an agency
04:25that is reducing its scientific capacity?
04:27Thank you, Ranking Member.
04:29When I served in the House, I was a member of the PFAS Task Force,
04:32representing the district with a lot of PFAS issues, voted for the PFAS Action Act.
04:38And the agency, since over the course of multiple administrations now,
04:42have been working on this important issue.
04:46Two things, as it relates to yesterday morning's announcement,
04:49because it was involving six chemicals.
04:52As it relates to PFOS and PFOA, the drinking water standard that was set at four parts per trillion is staying.
05:04There is litigation, as you pointed out.
05:07And as a consequence of that litigation,
05:09we're reminded how important it is when going through a regulatory process
05:13that the agency and agencies must follow the law for how to make a regulation.
05:20There was a procedural error with regards to how the agency had set the drinking water standard
05:27as it relates to four of the chemicals, which you referenced.
05:31They combined the preliminary regulatory determination with the proposed rule,
05:36which means that the EPA skipped a traditional step in the rulemaking process
05:40by issuing the proposed drinking water standard at the same time
05:44that it proposed the formal decision to regulate PFAS,
05:47rather than doing those steps separately.
05:51Now, here's the thing.
05:53For somebody like you who would want to see the agency go after these four chemicals,
05:59as a result of this process,
06:02the drinking water standard might be lower.
06:05The number, which is four parts per trillion, may end up being two.
06:10At the end of this process.
06:12So the public reporting for some in the media that would see our announcement
06:19from yesterday morning and say they're rolling back the standards,
06:24they're weakening the limit.
06:26Hopefully those people are also willing to write a follow-up to their story
06:34just to put out accurate information.
06:36Now, you referenced the exemption, and thank you for referencing it.
06:41The way that process had started, when I was going through the confirmation process
06:45and I was meeting with members of Congress,
06:47there was concern being expressed to me about passive receivers
06:50where local drinking water systems would have to hit a particular date.
06:56The cost to be able to bring their drinking water system into compliance
06:59was going to get passed off to their customers.
07:02So individuals, Americans, would have to pay to clean up their own water.
07:07And that was something members of Congress were saying,
07:09that they want the agency to look at and address.
07:11And the second thing is that they were speaking up on behalf of local drinking water systems
07:16that are concerned about their ability to be able to meet the compliance deadline.
07:21We can help with technical assistance.
07:24And also, I will say that the agency is receiving a lot of people who are reaching out to us
07:29with all sorts of new technologies to clean up this PFAS contamination.
07:34So hopefully, as we're going through the coming months and years,
07:39as these local drinking water systems are coming into compliance,
07:42that the costs go down.
07:44And the costs maybe from November, December of 2024 are not as high
07:48as when they go back and try to develop a plan in June of 2025.
07:56Well, I certainly hope that we are developing new methods to clean up PFAS
08:01because there are so many of these harmful chemicals in there
08:05so ever-present in our environment.
08:06So I'll certainly stay in touch about that.
08:09And let me just ask one last, hopefully, little question.
08:12Since this is a priority for the agency,
08:16I want to ask about three PFAS grants that were awarded and worked on in Maine.
08:21We just heard last evening that two of them have been terminated.
08:24And I'd love to get an update on the third one as well.
08:27The terminated grants were awarded to the University of Virginia with a sub-award to Maine,
08:32the Central Aroostics Soil and Water Conservation District,
08:35and the other was awarded to the University of Maine.
08:37And the third grant was awarded to the Passamaquoddy Tribe.
08:40All we're working on PFAS and their impacts to human health
08:44and our food supply is important work, and they're all a top priority.
08:48Since these grants are consistent with the EPA's priorities,
08:51do you know why they were terminated and what the status is of the Passamaquoddy Tribe grant?
08:55Thank you, Ranking Member.
08:57Familiar with these grants, it's an important program.
09:01It's something that's congressionally appropriated.
09:05The agency is going through a reorg,
09:07so the way that the program and these grants are going to get administered are going to be different going forward.
09:14But these are important grants.
09:16I look forward to working with you and your team as we're able to continue that good work going forward.
09:22And I know that you've – and I appreciate the fact that your office reached out before today's hearing
09:28as opposed to asking about a grant for the first time at a hearing where it might not have the details on me.
09:35But as I was talking to the team about the request that you sent in,
09:39the feedback that I got is that it was an important program.
09:42And as we're able to implement the reorg, the office inside of the agency that's going to be administering,
09:51it is going to be different, and we're looking forward to being able to move forward from there.
09:55Okay.
09:55Well, we will stay in close touch about that and certainly on all of these issues related to PFAS.
10:01I know it's not something we're all tackling,
10:04but we certainly want to make sure we don't lose any ground here on the enforcement and the research.
10:09So thank you.
10:09Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:10I yield that.