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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the TDN and also the co-host of the Down the Stretch Radio Show
00:00:36on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:38Hi, I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Bayer Speed Figure Team.
00:00:42Zoe Cabman here with First Racing and First TV.
00:00:46Randy, where can I get a quarterpole like that?
00:00:48You have one in your office.
00:00:49I've got a wooden stick pony behind me and you have a fabulous looking quarterpole.
00:00:54They're at Saratoga.
00:00:55I saw them all over town at Saratoga and then I came back home and decided, yeah, I've got
00:00:59to have one of those.
00:01:00And there's a company, I think they're based in Saratoga, that actually makes them.
00:01:04Yeah.
00:01:05I have to look it up.
00:01:06Fabulous.
00:01:07I need one.
00:01:08Maybe I'll take one of those.
00:01:09Those are red stilts hanging next to it.
00:01:12He owned one horse before I was born.
00:01:15They wound up giving it away after Two Lifetime Stars, an unbelievably slow horse.
00:01:20But it almost looks like a Japanese kind of thing.
00:01:23Yeah, very cool.
00:01:25Randy, you know what to get Zoe for Christmas now.
00:01:27One on the quarterpole.
00:01:28There you go.
00:01:29I'll add it to the list.
00:01:31Okay.
00:01:32So guys, it's that time of year.
00:01:33So much to talk about and so much fun talking about the three-year-olds and the three-year-old
00:01:38fillies on the way to the Kentucky Derby or the Kentucky Oaks.
00:01:41So why don't we start with the biggest race of the week last week, which was Louisiana
00:01:45Derby won by Tiz Tastic, who ran a 95 buyer.
00:01:50He was coming off with kind of a lackluster performance for Steve Asmussen, where he is
00:01:54fifth, beating six and a half links and the Rebel.
00:01:57But in a way, his ascension into this race and into the winner's circle remind me a little
00:02:03bit of what Magnitude did.
00:02:05Now Magnitude was much more impressive than Tiz Tastic and ran fast.
00:02:09The same thing.
00:02:10The horse was just plunking along, ran six in the LeCamp.
00:02:13All of a sudden, he looked like Seattle Slew winning the Risen Star.
00:02:18So Tiz Tastic is one of those horses that will be in that 14, 15 to one range I imagine
00:02:25in the Derby.
00:02:26And Zoe, do you see him as a major contender?
00:02:30I wish I could say I did.
00:02:32I trust in Steve Asmussen.
00:02:33It was a decent race.
00:02:35The buyer speed figure was okay.
00:02:37Obviously, he's going to run again because he didn't run them off their feet.
00:02:42It's good to see Tiz the Law absolutely firing on all cylinders because he's from the first
00:02:47crop of Tiz the Law.
00:02:49Good luck to anyone trying to find a Tappet mare nowadays, because it looks like they're
00:02:54going to be very few and far between of those.
00:02:57And if there are, you're going to have to pay a pretty penny for a Tappet mare.
00:03:01So well-bred son of Tiz the Law, was it the most scintillating race I've ever watched?
00:03:06No.
00:03:07I was thinking that Chunk of Gold might have a good shot built around a big race.
00:03:11Looks like he may be back to a one turn mile.
00:03:14Decent race.
00:03:15Not shocking, not fabulous, but not bad.
00:03:18Yeah, I totally agree with that.
00:03:20I mean, he did like Magnitude.
00:03:22He took a step forward, although his step forward wasn't of the magnitude of Magnitude.
00:03:28And the reason he was in New Orleans to begin with was because of the lackluster race in
00:03:34the Rebel.
00:03:35The initial plan was with Ron Winchell and Coolmore, the owners, and Steve Asmussen,
00:03:40was to run him in the Rebel and then the Arkansas Derby.
00:03:42And he ran such a lackluster race in the Rebel for no apparent excuse.
00:03:48After he had trained very well earlier at the fairgrounds, they decided, well, heck,
00:03:53let's just take him back to the fairgrounds.
00:03:55Maybe he just doesn't like the track at Oaklawn.
00:03:57And they got him back to New Orleans and he trained exceptionally well.
00:04:01Steve always thought the Tiztastic would be better as the distances progressively got
00:04:06longer.
00:04:07I haven't seen him in person.
00:04:08Steve says he is a big, gorgeous, big, beautiful horse.
00:04:13And so he was expecting an improved race.
00:04:18Am I going to say that, because we spent a lot of time with him on the phone, Jerry and
00:04:21I did before the race.
00:04:22Did he actually expect to win?
00:04:24I don't really think so, but he did expect an improved performance and he definitely
00:04:30got it.
00:04:31And how about guys, Chunk of Gold purchased for $2,500.
00:04:36He now has run second in the Rebel and the, not the Rebel, I'm sorry, the Risen Star and
00:04:42the Louisiana Derby.
00:04:43Has the points and will be in the starting gate for the Kentucky Derby, lining up against
00:04:47all those $1 million Bob Baffert horses and whatnot.
00:04:51I don't think he's good enough to win the Derby, but I love stories like this, $2,500
00:04:57and he is in the Kentucky Derby field.
00:05:00Fantastic story.
00:05:01A pin hooker in rural Kentucky actually bought him for $2,500, trained him for a while, was
00:05:06a friend of owner Terry Stevens.
00:05:08So went to Stevens and Stevens' racing manager and said, Hey, this horse, you need to look
00:05:12at this horse.
00:05:13So they sold a half interest at that point to Stevens.
00:05:16And then after the horse broke his maiden first time out, Stevens bought the other half
00:05:22that the horse at that point before he even ran second in the Risen Star was valued at
00:05:27around $200,000.
00:05:29So he made quite an escalation from a $2,500 yearling to his maiden win.
00:05:35And now look at him.
00:05:36He's in the Kentucky Derby.
00:05:37It would be a fantastic story.
00:05:39Great fairgrounds.
00:05:40Oaks was the race, the warmup for the Kentucky Oaks for the Phillies.
00:05:44And we have an obvious favorite now for the Kentucky Derby in good cheer.
00:05:49And you know, she's something else.
00:05:51She's just like a machine to me.
00:05:53She doesn't run particularly fast.
00:05:56She had a 91 buyer.
00:05:57It's the first time she broke out of the 80s.
00:06:00And she doesn't, by the eye, by the visual, she just doesn't look like a horse that is
00:06:07blowing anybody away.
00:06:09Then every time you look up at the finish, or look up at the PP, she wins by four lengths,
00:06:14wins by five lengths.
00:06:15No one's touched her.
00:06:16You know, maybe Tenma in California, if she wins the Sanita Derby, could vie for favoritism
00:06:23with her.
00:06:24But that's it.
00:06:26You just turn her on, send her out, and she does her thing, Zoe.
00:06:31She's pretty amazing.
00:06:32Six for six.
00:06:33She's two for two this year.
00:06:35Yeah, like you said, Bill, she's not the most brilliant to watch, but she gets it done each
00:06:41and every time.
00:06:42It's almost like when you see her coming down the lane, you're like, oh, she's going to
00:06:45eek out and win by half a length.
00:06:48And then all of a sudden, someone moves the finish line another 16th way, and she wins
00:06:52by five or six, because that's what it looks like visually, like, oh, she's going to get
00:06:56there.
00:06:57But when she clears her competition, it's like she takes off.
00:07:02She's amazing.
00:07:03You can't fault her.
00:07:04You really can't.
00:07:05It's kind of interesting to hear Brad Cox talk about her, because here's a guy who's
00:07:08got all of these million dollar, near million dollar, big, beautiful strapping horses.
00:07:13And then there's this filly who's very ordinary looking.
00:07:16She's not big.
00:07:17She's not super strong looking.
00:07:20She's just pretty ordinary looking.
00:07:21And he never thought, really, that she would become a graded stakes winner.
00:07:26But every time he ran her, even before she ran, he would put exercise riders on her.
00:07:32And let's say she goes out and she works a half in 49 and three, and the exercise riders
00:07:36would come back and say, wow, and Brad would say, wow, what do you mean, wow, she worked
00:07:41in 49 and three.
00:07:43What was wow about that?
00:07:45And they said, you can't explain it.
00:07:47There's just the way she moves.
00:07:51She's got a really, really good way of moving.
00:07:55And the jockeys have said that now, all the people that have breezed her in the morning.
00:07:59So there's obviously a lot more to her than just her looks.
00:08:03And she's certainly shown that so far in her racing career.
00:08:06But I agree with you, Bill.
00:08:07I mean, even on paper, other than the one, one, one, one, one, one, one in her record,
00:08:13you know, I mean, the figures, the analytics don't necessarily blow anybody away.
00:08:18So, you know, it'll be interesting to see if that's just an illusion.
00:08:21She just keeps winning like this and keeps stepping up her game as the competition gets
00:08:25tougher or if maybe, you know, the figures don't lie.
00:08:30It's going to be fascinating.
00:08:31It was the Philly a few years ago.
00:08:33Oh, was it Faser for Bob, who was the same kind of thing?
00:08:37Never ran a high number, but beat everyone in California.
00:08:40And I was all bullish.
00:08:41Yeah, I don't care.
00:08:43I don't care if she's, she's beaten who she's beaten.
00:08:45It's fine.
00:08:46She'll be fine in the Oaks.
00:08:47Couldn't find her.
00:08:49And in 2018, Monomoy Girl didn't have fantastic numbers either, as she made her way through
00:08:54the ranks at the fairgrounds and then in the Ashland.
00:08:58And then, of course, we know what Monomoy Girl wound up being, so.
00:09:02And how about Alhava on her second lifetime start, finishing second in there for Sherry
00:09:07DeVos.
00:09:08So she's somebody to watch down the line.
00:09:10Randy, I've been trying to find a favorite horse for you.
00:09:14Two fills in retired, um, the, the, the, the Buscador's gone, Buscador, how about touch
00:09:23upon a star?
00:09:24Oh, man.
00:09:25Louisiana bread goes out and just demolishes the field in the New Orleans Classic for a
00:09:32109 buyer, cost $15,000 at the sales.
00:09:36Sierra Leone was the big name in there, ran a pretty mediocre race, if you ask me, was
00:09:41third beaten four and a half at odds of three to 10.
00:09:45Touch upon a star has gone from, uh, to me, you know, some more, so just wins a lot of
00:09:50Louisiana bread races to a horse that looks like you could put them in the starting gate
00:09:54in any kind of race.
00:09:55And he'd give you a good run.
00:09:56He'd give you a good run.
00:09:57And if he gets the same kind of trip that he got in New Orleans, I mean, on an easy
00:10:01uncontested lead coming off a 12 and a half or 12 and a quarter length demolition of a,
00:10:07in a stakes race at Delta, he was really, really in sharp form.
00:10:11And it's just hard to beat a horse when you give him a good horse, when you give him that
00:10:14kind of an advantage.
00:10:16I'll take it one step further.
00:10:18If it's not touch upon a star, my new favorite horse might be Star Guitar, his tire.
00:10:23We've talked about this before.
00:10:25I mean, I think the horse is like 22 years old, is probably too old now for, you know,
00:10:30for some big Kentucky breeding operation to sweep in and pay a lot of money to bring him
00:10:34to Kentucky.
00:10:36But my God, if the source had stood in Kentucky all these years and had been, had access to
00:10:41some blue blooded mares to be bred to him, how good could he have been as a stallion?
00:10:47Because everything he throws seems to be just a runner.
00:10:51I mean, it's really cool to see the way this sire in Louisiana has really now kind of taken
00:10:58things to the next level.
00:10:59And I didn't, I didn't think the race for Sierra Leone was that bad.
00:11:05Keep in mind, when he won the Breeders' Cup Classic, he had an incredible pace set up.
00:11:09He had a mile and a quarter.
00:11:11Now he comes off a layoff, this is his first start of the year.
00:11:14He'd had a little issue leading up to this, a foot issue, so he'd missed a little bit
00:11:19of training time.
00:11:20Mile and an eighth, no pace, and he still rallies to finish third.
00:11:24I think he gets a 103 byers.
00:11:26I thought it was a good start back for him, but he's not going to be one of these kind
00:11:31of horses that wins time after time after time.
00:11:34He's just too set up, dependent with his running style.
00:11:37It was nice to see him staying straight, which was the big story of last year, him lugging
00:11:41in.
00:11:42And Pratt just said he never really got into a rhythm.
00:11:45It looked like he might've been finding his rhythm late because he was gaining on the
00:11:49winner, touch upon a star, and he did gallop out in front of him.
00:11:52I know the wire's there and who cares about the gallop out, but I think he'll be fine
00:11:57next time out.
00:11:59Touch upon a star though, what a cool horse.
00:12:01Last Louisiana bred to win the classics since 1996, Scott Scoundrel.
00:12:06I was there in 1996.
00:12:08I bet on Scott Scoundrel when he won, he paid $18.
00:12:12I'll never forget that.
00:12:14It was a very, very good race and kudos to Jake Delon to put him in there.
00:12:18I believe we had him on this time last year and he was talking about perhaps going in
00:12:23the classic and then he dodged and went in the Louisiana bred race and he won for fun.
00:12:28So nice to see them going in open company with him and that was racehorse time.
00:12:34Anytime you go one, 10 and three over that track and you're on the lead, that's a solid
00:12:39three quarter time to put up and finish like he did.
00:12:43So I'm not saying they gave it to him on the lead.
00:12:45He earned it, for sure he did.
00:12:47We saw what a cool guy Jake Delon was when we had him on the podcast and after this race,
00:12:51after the New Orleans classic, when they interviewed him down in the winner's circle, oh my God,
00:12:56he was just so, so excited.
00:12:58He just came through.
00:12:59You could see it was really neat.
00:13:01And Tim Thornton, what a great ride, the blue boots of Tim Thornton.
00:13:05I remember him as a, I'm aging myself here, my God, 16 year old kid sitting in the shed
00:13:10row at Hawthorne race course, waiting to get legged up to just walk a horse around the
00:13:15shed row before he could ever ride.
00:13:17We were in Ricky Lindsey's barn and he's been leading rider down in Louisiana, found a home
00:13:22down there and he's done great.
00:13:24I'm really proud of him.
00:13:26So let's turn our attention to Turfway Park where the Jeff Ruby was the prep for the Jeff
00:13:31Ruby.
00:13:32Randy, I heard you say this on NBC and I totally agree with you.
00:13:35It's the Jeff Ruby Steak Steaks.
00:13:37It just is what the name of it is.
00:13:40You can't, can't, whatever, I'm not, I got more important things to worry about than
00:13:46that.
00:13:47But that is, it is the Jeff Ruby Steak Steaks if you really want to go by the way that we
00:13:51call races.
00:13:54And also, Randy, I, you know, I'm, how do I say this without picking on you?
00:13:59But the buyer figures on final gambit, as you well know, he was so far the slowest horse
00:14:05in the race.
00:14:06He's supposed to lose by 20 points.
00:14:08I know 20 lengths.
00:14:09I know that this is an inexact science, but you know, how, how did the buyer team look
00:14:15at this afterwards when a horse that was running in the sixties beat horses that were run,
00:14:21some horses even running in the nineties?
00:14:22I thought his last race was a little bit better than, uh, than the figure he wound
00:14:27up earning.
00:14:28But even if you gave him, you know, seven or eight extra points of credit, 75, that's
00:14:34still not going to be enough to really bet him with any kind of confidence.
00:14:37And when you watched his races visually, he just looked like a horse that was struggling
00:14:43to put it all together.
00:14:44He would love, he would, you know, he would make a nice move and then he would get to
00:14:48the leaders and he would kind of mess around and lug in and duck out and just wasn't focused
00:14:53and wrongly the whole thing.
00:14:55I mean, he just wasn't the kind of horse that, that, you know, really had caught on to everything
00:15:01that they asked him to do, but he definitely took a step forward in that department as
00:15:06well.
00:15:07Now, is he going to be a contender on dirt in the Kentucky Derby?
00:15:11He's going to be 31, if not higher.
00:15:13So, but it was, you know, Judd Mott, it was, it was, it was kind of cool to see the win.
00:15:19And not this time, the 23rd graded stakes winner for not this time as well.
00:15:23So he is on a roll, good race, a nice race.
00:15:27I'm going to start using nice cause it's the word I hate.
00:15:32It was a nice race.
00:15:33Now Zoe, I'm surprised you missed the real story from the Jeff Ruby stakes flying Mohawk
00:15:39co-owned by Jason Worth.
00:15:42Yeah, I did.
00:15:43He's now in the Kentucky Derby from, I assume he has enough points finishing second there.
00:15:46So you, you will maybe get to meet your idol come Derby week at Churchill Downs.
00:15:52That would be awesome.
00:15:53I'm sure Randy can facilitate that, either him or Tom Brady, you know, Tom would be first.
00:15:59And they plan on running flying Mohawk, even though he's never run on dirt before either.
00:16:03It's the, it's, you know, it's the way of the world now in the Kentucky Derby.
00:16:07One more thing about the Jeff Ruby stakes, stakes, Jeff Ruby's lucky number, as we found
00:16:13out through a text message before the race is seven.
00:16:15So the purse of the race was $777,000.
00:16:19There you go.
00:16:21That's cool.
00:16:22The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland, which saw their September grad
00:16:27we just talked about, Tiztastic, take the Louisiana Derby this past weekend.
00:16:33With over 428 million in gross sales, the 2024 Keeneland September sale set a new industry
00:16:40benchmark as the highest grossing thoroughbred auction in history.
00:16:45That's a testament to the commitment of sellers, confidence in buyers, and the global trust
00:16:50in Keeneland as the premier marketplace for yearlings.
00:16:54The sale takes place this September the 8th through the 20th.
00:16:58The Kentucky Derby deadline is May the 1st.
00:17:28Now, this week's fastest horse of the week brought to you by Heartland, one of the fastest
00:17:37sires at Windstar Farm.
00:17:38Talk about a pedigree.
00:17:39Heartland is by Justify and also a half-brother to Classic Empire, the Eclipse Award champion
00:17:46as a two-year-old.
00:17:47Only one start for Heartland, but it was a doozy.
00:17:51He was a TDN rising star in that only race.
00:17:53He got a 90-buyer speed figure, covered the 5.5 furlongs in his debut, 103.20.
00:18:00That's faster than any two-year-old at Del Mar and Saratoga on dirt at that distance
00:18:06in 2023.
00:18:07He was a $575,000 Keeneland September yearling.
00:18:13Heartland stands at Windstar for a fee of $10,000.
00:18:18Fastest horse of the week.
00:18:19We just talked about him.
00:18:20Chipotas star, the son of Star Guitar, buyer speed figure, 109 in that race.
00:18:28That puts him way up there in two-turn dirt buyer category with horses like Guayabario
00:18:35and others.
00:18:36So, it'll be interesting to see the next move that Jake Delon makes with his fast-rising
00:18:42Louisiana-bred veteran runner.
00:18:51It's time now for the Gainesway Guests of the Week.
00:18:54We welcome in Damon Thayer, well-known person to people in horse racing, had a distinguished
00:18:59career in Kentucky politics, decided not to run a couple of years ago for re-election,
00:19:05and is now working as a senior advisor for the Thoroughbred Racing Initiative.
00:19:09Right now, as you might expect, his main goal is to keep decoupling from happening in Florida.
00:19:15Welcome, Damon.
00:19:17Damon, you know politics a lot better than I do, but usually I don't always agree, obviously,
00:19:23with what state government, local government, or federal government does, but usually I
00:19:28understand why.
00:19:29I understand what's going on, what's the reasons.
00:19:32This I just don't get it.
00:19:35How on earth can anybody in the Florida legislature be in favor of closing down this racetrack,
00:19:41closing down this industry so that a foreign company can build the 19th casino or whatever
00:19:47it is in Florida?
00:19:49It just doesn't make any sense to me.
00:19:52It's a real head-scratcher, Bill, and great to be with you guys.
00:19:56Thanks for having me on to give everyone an update on what's happening in Florida.
00:20:01As you mentioned, I was in the Kentucky State Senate for 22 years, retired a few months
00:20:06ago, and I saw a lot of strange things.
00:20:12Lawmaking is like making sausage.
00:20:15Some of the ingredients and the process make you scratch your head, but in the end, it's
00:20:19usually a good result, but I've never seen a thing like this, where a bill has such a
00:20:25head of steam with the entire industry opposed to it.
00:20:30I've been working for these guys for about two months now and trying to get to the motivations.
00:20:39Basically, Belinda wants to sell Gulfstream Park.
00:20:46This is a fact.
00:20:47I'm not making a pejorative statement.
00:20:49She has contributed, Gulfstream Park has contributed over $300,000 in campaign contributions since
00:20:57the end of 2023 to Tallahassee politicians and their campaign committees.
00:21:03For whatever reason, she got the House Budget Committee Chairman, Chairman McClure, to be
00:21:11a big supporter of decoupling, and Representative Adam Anderson, who has part of Tampa Bay Downs
00:21:20in his district, to agree to sponsor the bill.
00:21:23The only other thing we can find out is one of those guys is really good friends with
00:21:29Gulfstream Park's lobbyists.
00:21:33Those two factors, the campaign contributions and the friendship, are the only motivation
00:21:42that we can find.
00:21:46I'm a unique guy in the fact that I understand legislative lingo and horse racing lingo.
00:21:51I'm a terrible handicapper, but I know how to speak the language of both the horse racing
00:21:57side and the legislative side.
00:22:00Some of the inside is the House Budget Committee Chairman wants it.
00:22:06Nobody wants to make the House Budget Committee Chairman mad because he controls the line
00:22:13item appropriations in the budget.
00:22:17Every legislator, whether Republican or Democrat, wants to go home at the end of a session to
00:22:23do ribbon cuttings, groundbreakings, and check presentations on projects that they've been
00:22:29able to secure for their district.
00:22:33In most cases, at state government level, these are important things – water lines,
00:22:38sewer lines, roads, community colleges, things like that.
00:22:43The best we can tell is nobody wants to make the Budget Committee Chairman mad.
00:22:49When we got in, we knew that the skids were greased in the House, although we seem to
00:22:56have slowed it down a little bit.
00:22:58Our plan has always been to defeat the bill in the Senate.
00:23:05That's where we are right now.
00:23:06We had a really good week last week, but we're in a new week and we're almost to the halfway
00:23:10point of the Florida legislative session.
00:23:14We're pouring it on.
00:23:15We're pushing this message that this is a $3.3 billion industry.
00:23:21It has nearly 33,000 jobs.
00:23:23It's bigger than college athletics.
00:23:26It's as big as the ports and on a similar footing as the citrus industry.
00:23:33I'm a bit like you, Bill.
00:23:35I'm still just aghast that an industry like this would be under attack.
00:23:41The odd thing is, Bill and I, we don't agree much on politics.
00:23:46I'm an old school Reagan Republican, a little bit out of fashion in my own party.
00:23:53I'm fighting Republicans who are pushing this bill that could absolutely devastate an industry.
00:24:00We just keep pushing this message and our focus is on the Senate right now.
00:24:05If we could get them to not even bring the bill up, we want to kill the bill, defeat
00:24:11the bill for this session, and that gives us the time to negotiate Florida's racing
00:24:17future because we do know that legislators down there are willing to listen to ideas.
00:24:24We're going to have to make changes to the statutes.
00:24:28I'll tell you this.
00:24:29I don't know that year-round racing in Florida is a long-term prospect with or without decoupling.
00:24:37We've got to look at the Breeders' Awards and the purse supplements for Florida breads
00:24:42and purse supplements from expanded gambling, which is happening both in Tampa with the
00:24:48card club and with the slots casino at Gulfstream Park.
00:24:53We're willing to look at all these things, but we're not going to negotiate with a gun
00:24:56to our head.
00:24:57That's the situation we find ourselves in today.
00:25:02So Damon, with the power brokers, it sounds kind of lined up against you on this.
00:25:06It sounds like you might be swimming upstream.
00:25:08Are you doing this yourself in Tallahassee?
00:25:11How many people do you have working with you and how much hope do you have that you can
00:25:16ultimately succeed in this?
00:25:18Randy, that's a great question.
00:25:21I haven't even been to Tallahassee yet.
00:25:23I was supposed to go last week, but I came down with a bad case of vertigo.
00:25:27So getting on an airplane was a bad idea.
00:25:32So first of all, the Thoroughbred Racing Initiative Board is David O'Farrell, president, Jonathan
00:25:37Green from DJ Stable, vice president, and our board is Mark Cassie, Barry Iseman, and
00:25:42Aaron Wellman.
00:25:44I talk to them almost every day.
00:25:47We have Zoom updates at least once a week.
00:25:51We have raised money from the industry in Florida and in Kentucky to help fund this
00:25:58effort.
00:25:59We've hired one of the top lobbying teams in Tallahassee.
00:26:06It's called Reuben Turnbull.
00:26:08Bill Reuben is the principal.
00:26:10Extremely well connected.
00:26:11I work with him and his team.
00:26:14We have a PR firm that's doing some PR work for us in Tallahassee.
00:26:19All of the industry PR is Jenny Reese, who you all know, one of the top PR specialists
00:26:27in the business, an Eclipse Award winner from her time at the Courier-Journal in Louisville.
00:26:35She's doing all of our social media.
00:26:37We're on Facebook and Twitter, Thoroughbred Racing Initiative, and you can tell in old
00:26:42fashion, I still call it Twitter.
00:26:44I still call the commanders the Redskins.
00:26:47I still own a CD collection and a CD player, very old fashioned.
00:26:52We have a website, Thoroughbred Racing Initiative, and we are working with the Gulfstream Horsemen,
00:27:00the newly formed Gulfstream Horsemen's Group, the Tampa HPPA, the OBS, Ocala Breeder Sales,
00:27:08and the FTBOA.
00:27:09We're sort of working collaboratively because that's what we found worked in Kentucky with
00:27:14the Kentucky Equine Education Project.
00:27:18This is very similar, except in 2021, we were trying to pass a bill to save horse racing.
00:27:23That would be the historical horse racing bill.
00:27:26In Florida, we're trying to defeat a bill to save horse racing.
00:27:31The other big difference is in 2021, the tracks, the breeders, the owners, the horsemen, and
00:27:36the jockeys were all on the same page, where in this situation, we're clearly working against
00:27:42Gulfstream Park.
00:27:43Some similarities, some differences.
00:27:46My mantra that I'm preaching to the industry is, I know people have bad blood from things
00:27:53that have happened in the past, but cooperation is better than extinction.
00:27:58That's what I said at my speech at the National HPA Convention last month.
00:28:01The Arkansas breeders have asked me to come down and speak at their dinner Friday night
00:28:05before the Arkansas Derby, and I'm going to deliver the same message.
00:28:10Cooperation beats extinction, and the states where the industry has a good working relationship
00:28:18with their legislative body, those are the places where racing is going to survive and
00:28:23thrive.
00:28:24I'm sort of preaching that one state at a time, because there are places where racing
00:28:29is doing well.
00:28:30If you look in every place, it's because they have a strong relationship with their legislature
00:28:34here in Kentucky, New York, Florida, Virginia, Arkansas, Indiana.
00:28:41I just saw some good news coming out of Minnesota yesterday, and I'm sure there are other examples,
00:28:46but those are just a few.
00:28:48That's where we're going to do well, and honestly, the industry thought it had a good relationship
00:28:54with the legislature, but then on January 2nd, when that press release came out about
00:29:00decoupling, the industry felt like it completely had the rug pulled out from underneath it.
00:29:05It kind of caught most everybody unawares, because the Stronach group cut a deal with
00:29:11the old horsemen's group back in July, but they were sworn to secrecy, so nobody knew
00:29:17about it.
00:29:20Back to your original starter bill, this is the strangest situation I've ever seen, and
00:29:25I've been in the Kentucky legislature for 22 years, and in horse racing my entire life,
00:29:30and I've seen a lot of strange things, so that's a really high bar to say that this
00:29:33is the strangest thing I've ever seen at the intersection of horse racing and politics.
00:29:40So Damon, the unanswered question of the many unanswered questions, suppose you win, the
00:29:46good guys win this, you're the good guys.
00:29:49Belinda Stronach has said, okay, you won't give me decoupling, I'm shutting the place
00:29:55down, and you guys can go to hell, and then I'll just sell the land.
00:30:00How serious a threat is that, and is there anything that could stop her from doing that?
00:30:05Well, first of all, I don't speak for First Racing, or Belinda Stronach, or Gulf Street
00:30:14Park, but they can threaten to shut the place down, but then they have to shut down the
00:30:20casino.
00:30:21They've got 500 slot machines, but by the way, under the law, they could put in 2,000
00:30:27slot machines, and they've only been operating 500, but their average gaming revenue out
00:30:32of those machines is $39 million a year, so if they want to shut Gulf Street Park down,
00:30:39they've got to shut down the money train that is their casino, and under the current law,
00:30:45they have two racing licenses technically there, and they're required to run at least
00:30:5080 days a year, and granted, they've been running 200, look, the guys that I work for
00:30:57know that some adjustments probably need to be made in Florida racing law, and we're willing
00:31:03to come to the table and do it, but we're not going to do it right now when there's
00:31:07a gun to our head, when the Stronach Group is basically saying, take decoupling or else.
00:31:13Nineteen years ago, the Stronach Group cut a deal with the horsemen that allowed them
00:31:19that slot machine casino at Gulf Street Park as long as they continued horse racing, and
00:31:25now, the Stronach Group is trying to renege on that because for whatever reason, they
00:31:29want out of horse racing.
00:31:30I mean, it's pretty clear.
00:31:32They've shut down racetracks in Michigan, Oregon, Northern California.
00:31:37They've negotiated an out of Maryland.
00:31:40They clearly want out of Florida, and I think everybody knows that Santa Anita is next.
00:31:45Okay, fine, but if you want out, you want out.
00:31:49There are deals in place with horsemen who put on the show.
00:31:54Listen to me, Bill, sounding like a populist here.
00:31:59This is a strange world we're living in, but it's true, and I'm an old racetrack management
00:32:04guy, and you've got to have the horsemen to put on the show, and people feel like
00:32:11that Gulf Street Park has gone back on a deal that they cut 19 years ago, and we're ready
00:32:18to be collaborative, but we want the rest of this year to do it, not the rest of this
00:32:23month.
00:32:26So when the Gulfstream people initially had the big meeting with the horsemen that attracted
00:32:30so much controversy, and they offered, I think it was a guaranteed five years of racing at
00:32:36Gulfstream if the horsemen agreed to support decoupling, has first racing actually said
00:32:45anything publicly or privately about what it would do if the decoupling bill doesn't
00:32:51pass?
00:32:52Well, they haven't said anything publicly.
00:32:56Last week in Tallahassee, the House version of the bill was up at its second committee,
00:33:03and the only person who spoke in favor of the bill was Representative Anderson, the
00:33:08sponsor.
00:33:09We had nearly 20 Floridians lined up to speak against the bill, including Belmont Stakes
00:33:17winning trainer Jenna Antonucci, who's been a terrific spokesman for this, Ocala Breeders
00:33:23Sales Company President Tom Ventura, and Ocala Stud General Manager and the President of
00:33:29TRI David O'Farrell, our board members Barry Eisenman and Mark Cassie, and many, many
00:33:36others to speak about the cataclysmic effect this bill would have on the industry.
00:33:44I can't say what they've said in private, but I mean, you can predict what it likely
00:33:51is that they've said.
00:33:56I don't think they can shut it down because under the law, they've got to run at least
00:34:0280 days to have that casino.
00:34:05But so, to your question, if we, if our coalition wins and we defeat the bill this session,
00:34:14I mean, she can try to do whatever she wants, but she's going to, you know, if she wants
00:34:19to play that hand while we're negotiating with, in good faith, maybe a package, a future
00:34:26legislative package for the Florida racing industry, she's probably going to show the
00:34:32industry what she's really all about.
00:34:35So I would say it's not as easy for her just to shut it down as it would look, as it appears
00:34:45to on Twitter, on horse racing Twitter.
00:34:48Let's play this forward like a decade, Damon.
00:34:50Let's suppose that you succeed in this, right?
00:34:53You succeed in preventing decoupling at Gulfstream Park.
00:34:58What do you see as the best case scenario for horse racing in South Florida at that
00:35:03point moving forward?
00:35:05Well, I think it's going to be a lot like horse racing in America, where we're in the
00:35:09middle of a, we might be in the beginning of a painful contraction where there are fewer
00:35:16tracks.
00:35:20But in Florida, you're going to need a white knight to come in and buy Gulfstream Park
00:35:27and operate it as a racetrack, and I'm not sure that she would sell it as a racetrack.
00:35:36The long-term future of Gulfstream Park is probably in question as a racetrack, even
00:35:41if we kill the decoupling bill.
00:35:44So let's talk about all the options, and there are half a dozen.
00:35:49There could be an expanded role for Tampa Bay Downs, which is a signed racetrack, one
00:35:56of my favorites.
00:35:57Actually, my grandparents were snowbirds from Michigan.
00:36:00I visit them in the Tampa area in the winter, and my grandfather took me to Tampa Bay Downs.
00:36:05I was just there a couple of weeks ago.
00:36:06It's a great track.
00:36:08I was there on a Wednesday, and they had a really enthusiastic, large crowd.
00:36:13Some of the top horsemen in the country like to race there.
00:36:15The surfaces are good.
00:36:17Maybe there's an expanded role with higher purses for Tampa.
00:36:21Maybe the industry could work out a deal with John Burnett Jr. to lease Hialeah.
00:36:30There are no barns there anymore, I'm told.
00:36:35But with all the training centers down there, Palm Meadows, Payson Park, Palm Beach Downs,
00:36:41plus the training centers in Ocala, you could probably do a harness racing model like the
00:36:47Meadowlands, where it's a ship-in facility, ship-in and race.
00:36:52That's a possibility.
00:36:53I don't want people to get their hopes up.
00:36:56I'm not sure that the Hialeah option has a great degree of success possibility, but it
00:37:06sure would be pretty cool.
00:37:07I'm told that the dirt and the turf courses would just need a little work, and the building.
00:37:13Again, I haven't been there, but I'm told the building, which houses a casino,
00:37:17is still in decent shape, and the paddock and the courtyard and the fountains and the
00:37:23citation statue are still there.
00:37:26Some people think that racing at Palm Meadows is a possibility.
00:37:30I think that one is a real long shot, because when it was built, the local community signed
00:37:35covenants that said you cannot operate a live racetrack here.
00:37:40They don't want the traffic in and out, and I understand that the ingress-egress would
00:37:45be a problem there for large crowds anyway.
00:37:48So then, maybe do you go north of Broward and Miami-Dade counties, where the land is
00:37:54less expensive, and build a new track?
00:37:57Or do you go to Ocala?
00:37:59Do you go to Ocala, where Adina Springs, which is still owned by Frank Stronach, has barns
00:38:07and, I'm told, a nice dirt and turf track there?
00:38:12Classic Mile has a track.
00:38:14OBS has a nice synthetic surface.
00:38:16You know, is there winter racing at Tampa with maybe some shoulder meets in north of
00:38:26Miami or in Ocala?
00:38:29Is there going to be racing in the summertime, i.e.
00:38:31the old Calder dates?
00:38:34These questions are all up in the air, and I've talked to a lot of people over the last
00:38:40six to eight weeks, and everybody has a different scenario.
00:38:44But it's going to take cooperation from Tallahassee, because the Seminole Indian tribes are very
00:38:52strong down there, and to get another casino license that would support a racetrack is
00:38:58going to be hard in any state where the Indians have a lot.
00:39:04I mean, there's almost 40 casinos already in Florida, to your point, guys, earlier.
00:39:08Does Hallandale Beach really need another one when hard rock is a quick drive down the
00:39:14road?
00:39:16So we're going to need legislative help to draft the future, what it looks like, and
00:39:23then we're going to need money, and we're going to need investors.
00:39:30There are two organizations that have a lot of money in the bank in this business, Breeders
00:39:34Cup and Jockey Club, and they're both supposed to be about the preservation of horse racing
00:39:40in America.
00:39:42Maybe they need to step up, put together a group on the Naira model or the Keeneland
00:39:46model or some sort of nonprofit where a lot of the really wealthy people in this industry
00:39:52join together and figure out a solution that involves one or a combination of the options
00:39:59that I just discussed with you.
00:40:02Damon, you've said that, and I've heard this from other people, that the hope is you'll
00:40:06have a lot more success in the Senate than you've had so far in the House.
00:40:09I want to take it one step further.
00:40:11Does anyone know where Governor DeSantis stands on this?
00:40:14And could he become a player in this eventually?
00:40:19We've met with Governor DeSantis.
00:40:22We've met with the Attorney General.
00:40:24We've met with the Commissioner of Agriculture.
00:40:27They are all aware of the situation.
00:40:31They are all aware of the Canadian citizen who is attempting to shut down horse racing
00:40:37at Gulfstream Park and harm Florida jobs.
00:40:43I've been doing this a long time, Randy.
00:40:46Invoking Canada right now might not be a bad strategy there, Damon.
00:40:51With certain elements of America.
00:40:57I have to protect the confidences of the gentleman I just mentioned, the Governor, the Attorney
00:41:04General, and the Commissioner of Agriculture.
00:41:08We were very happy that they took the time to meet with us.
00:41:12And they're very well aware of the situation.
00:41:15And at the appropriate time, if we need to, we will circle back with them.
00:41:22I mean, if it passes, we're going to ask Governor DeSantis to veto it.
00:41:26But I hope it doesn't get to his desk.
00:41:29Well, Damon, thanks so much for all that information.
00:41:32And thanks for all the good work you've done over the years for horse racing.
00:41:36And you continue in a role which is very important.
00:41:39I know the horse racing industry really appreciates everything you've done.
00:41:43Again, not just for Kentucky, but for the sport in general.
00:41:46And thanks for joining us today on the TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:41:49Thanks.
00:41:50My new slogan, guys, is saving horse racing one state at a time.
00:41:55Or maybe six at a time.
00:41:56Who knows?
00:41:57Thanks for having me.
00:41:58OK, thanks, Damon.
00:42:00Damon Thayer, our guest of the week, was brought to you by Gainesway.
00:42:04As we've told you, Gainesway is home to four new stallions in 2025,
00:42:07including Preakness winner Seize the Gray, Arrowgate's highest earning colt.
00:42:12Seize the Gray won not only the Preakness, but then he followed that up later in the year
00:42:16with the Pennsylvania Derby, which raised his career earnings to $2.4 million.
00:42:23And Seize the Gray, a MyRacehorse owned runner, now stands at Gainesway for a fee of $30,000.
00:42:30Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
00:42:41Seize the Gray wins convincingly.
00:42:45Seize the Gray, he's going to seize the day in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:42:51Seize the Gray, he's still there.
00:42:53Seize the Gray wins the Preakness.
00:43:05In this week's edition of First Things First,
00:43:07I got up close and personal with the connections of a Teatland.
00:43:11It's not often I get this close to trainer John Sheriffs, the trainer of the winner here,
00:43:17Atalan. Congratulations, John.
00:43:20Take us through the trip with Hector.
00:43:21It's his third win today, but it seems like he knows where the wire is.
00:43:25Oh, he does, doesn't he?
00:43:26He's so great on the turf.
00:43:27He just has a real sense of the horse and what's going on in the race.
00:43:32The O'Connors are in New York.
00:43:33We're fortunate enough to have a great team here.
00:43:36We're going to have a great time.
00:43:37The O'Connors are in New York.
00:43:40We're fortunate enough for them to send horses out here to Southern California.
00:43:44If they're watching, what do you have to say to them, John?
00:43:46All I can say is thank you very much.
00:43:48I really appreciate them sending the horses.
00:43:50And they're such nice horses.
00:43:52And JOC and Anasazi just love racing.
00:43:57Talk about the San Luis Rey and its significance.
00:43:59This is a marquee race here at Santa Anita.
00:44:02What does it feel like to win it?
00:44:03You know, it's one of those dream races.
00:44:05You know, it's like you say, it's a marquee race.
00:44:07And it's, you know, you're coming down the hillside course
00:44:10and you're on the main track and you have to go around again.
00:44:13So, you know, it's an exciting race.
00:44:15John, thanks so much for the time and congratulations.
00:44:18Thanks.
00:44:18I'll get close just one more time.
00:44:20That's Trainer John Sheriffs.
00:44:29Many thanks to Trainer John Sheriffs, one of my most patient trainers,
00:44:34I may add.
00:44:35A terrific training job there by John as we move on
00:44:38and talk about Santa Anita in the upcoming week.
00:44:42This Friday, we'll mark a pick six carryover.
00:44:44We got over $70,000 in the kitty.
00:44:47It goes off as race number four.
00:44:49Pool is expected to exceed $500,000.
00:44:53So get handicapping as well.
00:44:55We'll head up to close out the Classic Meet next weekend
00:45:00with the Santa Anita Derby.
00:45:02All eyes will be on Santa Anita and the first racing tour.
00:45:05Do go to santanita.com for tickets.
00:45:08And guys, it's still time to sign up for the 5K.
00:45:11One of the most beautiful walks or runs through the Arboretum.
00:45:16Come on.
00:45:16I know you guys want to come.
00:45:17Randy, you could come and do it.
00:45:19Couldn't you?
00:45:21If you ever see me running, Zoe, call the police.
00:45:23There's somebody behind me and probably armed.
00:45:29All right.
00:45:30Well, let's now take a look at what's coming up this weekend.
00:45:32And first, we'll start at Gulfstream Park with the Florida Derby.
00:45:35The Curlin Florida Derby presented by Hillandale
00:45:38is the big race of the day and the big race of the meet.
00:45:42Sovereignty coming off a win in the Fountain of Youth
00:45:44is obviously the favorite.
00:45:47News broke yesterday or the day before that
00:45:50Junior Alvarado broke his shoulder blade
00:45:52and they have named Manny Franco to fill in
00:45:56and be the new rider for him.
00:45:58Normally, I would discount a horse from the 10 post in this race,
00:46:03but we talked about that before the Fountain of Youth,
00:46:05how they've elongated the run-up.
00:46:08Oh, Randy, how far is the run-up now for this race?
00:46:11The run-up? I have no idea.
00:46:12I thought, wasn't it the same for the Fountain of Youth?
00:46:15Well, they changed the run-up for the mile and a 16th races
00:46:19at the Fountain of Youth
00:46:20so that they had a little bit of a longer run to the first turn.
00:46:23At the mile and an eighth of the Florida Derby,
00:46:25we'll have a different run-up.
00:46:27Still won't be that much.
00:46:28But yeah.
00:46:29But anyway, so sovereignty,
00:46:31the way Bill Mott talked going into the Fountain of Youth,
00:46:34you've got to think the horse is going to move forward.
00:46:36You know, he said he'd be happy to be second or third.
00:46:38The horse wasn't really ready.
00:46:40The distance was too short and he got the job done
00:46:44to win his second straight race after winning the Street Sense.
00:46:47If he comes out of this,
00:46:48he's going to be one of the obvious favorites for the Kentucky Derby.
00:46:51I've got a wild wise guy pick though.
00:46:55I'm going to go with Jimmy's Dailies.
00:46:57We're looking for a big price in here.
00:47:00Two starts back.
00:47:01He won a maiden race and beat Disruptor,
00:47:04who's in this field.
00:47:05Look what Disruptor did next time out for Todd Pletcher.
00:47:08Won a maiden special eight,
00:47:09getting a nine and a quarter winning margin and a 92 buyer.
00:47:14Then last time out, he lost to Pletcher again,
00:47:16going a mile and eighth to the highly regarded Grande.
00:47:20So he's a horse that has to step up.
00:47:22This is his first stakes win.
00:47:24But I just felt like being a little different in here.
00:47:27I know that sovereignty is the horse to beat,
00:47:29but I'm going to throw a few dollars on a wild long shot in here.
00:47:33So after the Jeff Ruby, in other words,
00:47:34you're now looking for horses that have no fig, right?
00:47:41I mean, look, sovereignty, he's got Tappan Street.
00:47:44He's got Disruptor to run against Brad Cox and Todd Pletcher,
00:47:47but there's no reason not to think that sovereignty won't take a nice step forward
00:47:52from the Fountain of Youth and the Fountain of Youth was a really good race.
00:47:55To me, it was the short stretch that he overcame in that race at a mile and a 16th.
00:48:00And he was just getting warmed up when they crossed the wire and he blew past River Thames.
00:48:05So, I mean, Zoe, I think a mile and an eighth, second start of the year.
00:48:08I mean, I'm expecting him to be even better.
00:48:11Me too.
00:48:12And I purposely have not watched any of his works because he's a horrible workhorse.
00:48:17I have heard, though, that his works have been a little bit better of late.
00:48:22So it seems like the light bulbs come on.
00:48:24I'm delighted to see Manny Franco getting the mount because he's a very savvy,
00:48:29smart rider and he will have watched this horse's races.
00:48:33He will have likely been on him perhaps in the morning
00:48:36and knows that he's going to have to pedal him every step of the way.
00:48:41Excuse me, breaking on the outside.
00:48:43He's obviously going to save ground going into the first turn.
00:48:46The only thing I kind of saw that he didn't like last time was too much kickback.
00:48:51So I think Manny's going to need to steer him clear at some point of the kickback
00:48:56because when he really started running in the Fountain of Youth
00:49:00was once he got clear of the kickback and switch leads and just glopped down the lane.
00:49:05So Sovereignty, definitely the horse to beat in there.
00:49:09How about Bob running one?
00:49:12Yeah, Medicate Road.
00:49:13When was the last time he ran a horse in the Florida Derby?
00:49:16I don't know the answer.
00:49:17I'm just asking the question.
00:49:18It's been a while.
00:49:20It's been a long time.
00:49:21It's been a long time.
00:49:23Yeah, he's got a lot.
00:49:23Well, I can tell you that I can tell you exactly how long it's been in a second here.
00:49:27Go ahead and keep talking.
00:49:28So Medicate Road gets the blinkers off.
00:49:31Tyler Gaffione picking up for him.
00:49:33And when Bob takes the blinkers off a horse, he's not looking to take the horse back.
00:49:37He's just going to want him to relax a little bit better than he has to relax.
00:49:42So just because the blinkers are coming off.
00:49:43And bear in mind, Bob's blinkers are tiny little cheaters.
00:49:47So don't think that all of a sudden he's going to come blasting from off the pace,
00:49:51because he's not.
00:49:52I like the fact that Gaffione gets a board of him.
00:49:55So he's probably the most interesting horse in there.
00:49:59Obviously, Disruptor is going to take a lot of the money with a ride to ride for trainer
00:50:03Todd Pletcher.
00:50:03It's a good race.
00:50:05It is a good race without having a major, major standout as far as I'm concerned.
00:50:11All right.
00:50:11This is courtesy of our friends at Equibase.
00:50:14Great.
00:50:14It hasn't really been that long.
00:50:17Baffert shipped Spielberg to run in the Florida Derby in 2021.
00:50:22Spielberg predictably finished eighth.
00:50:25That is the only horse that Bob Baffert has ever started in the Florida Derby.
00:50:31Yeah, that's that's kind of what I thought.
00:50:33It was 21 during COVID as well.
00:50:37The year is pretty much over by this time.
00:50:40But yeah, it's been there in the fairgrounds.
00:50:43You don't often see Bob ship horses, too.
00:50:47So let's move on to the Phillies.
00:50:49They're going to Gulfstream Park Oaks.
00:50:51This is, again, a race.
00:50:52No superstars.
00:50:53Nobody jumps off the page.
00:50:54But a very intriguing race with several horses that have chances if they can step up and
00:51:00kind of improve.
00:51:01I mean, what do you do with Cassiar, a first time starter as a first time starter?
00:51:05He won at Tampa Bay Downs last time up.
00:51:08I got a nice 81 buyer figure trained by Shug McGehee.
00:51:11And his promise off was claimed by Carlos Davin, who came back and won an optional claim
00:51:17remain optional claimer allowance, getting an 85 buyer.
00:51:20But I think most of the attention is going to go to 5G in here.
00:51:24And I think that's who I'm going to pick for George Weaver.
00:51:27She ran second last time out on the Honeybee prior start before that and her first two
00:51:32turn dirt race.
00:51:33She won the cash run six by nine lengths at Gulfstream.
00:51:36And the Honeybee, I think, was a tougher, even though it was a grade three, that field
00:51:40was a little bit tougher.
00:51:41Quiet Side is a very well-established horse.
00:51:45Mahima is another monster from the Brad Cox barn.
00:51:49So I'll go with 5G in there.
00:51:50But I wouldn't be surprised if any one of about five or six horses won it.
00:51:56It's going to be a good betting race.
00:51:575G, the only thing that would concern me is that she shipped to Oak Lawn.
00:52:02She ran a hard race.
00:52:03It was her first race around two turns there at Oak Lawn, and I thought she ran huge that
00:52:10day and lost nothing in defeat to Quiet Side.
00:52:12But it seems like shipping to Oak Lawn, shipping back and then running again, expected to run
00:52:17a big effort.
00:52:18I'm just questioning that.
00:52:20I don't question George Weaver hardly at all, but I'm just wondering if that might take
00:52:25a toll on a three-year-old filly.
00:52:27The Queen's MG, obviously she's proven last time that she could get the mile distance.
00:52:33We'll see how she handles this two-turn event.
00:52:37But the whole race doesn't really excite me.
00:52:41So why not Cassia for Shug McGahee?
00:52:44She's bred all day long to get two turns.
00:52:47Yeah.
00:52:47I like 5G, mainly because she was stuck in just a horrific post position, post 13 out
00:52:53of 13 last time when she ran in the Honeybee Stakes.
00:52:56And I read, wrote her that day.
00:52:58It's Tyler Gaffney on this time.
00:52:59But I read, wrote her very aggressively out of the starting gate to try to get over ahead
00:53:05of the pack and save some ground from the 13 holes.
00:53:07So he was part of a pretty lively pace in there that helped set it up for Quiet Side.
00:53:15So I thought the race was better than it looked on paper.
00:53:18And now she's back at Gulfstream where she won the cash run before that by nine lengths.
00:53:22So I think she's the worst to beat.
00:53:24But I mean, what price is she going to be?
00:53:26And also on the Gulfstream car, not something we really need to debate because the horse
00:53:30is going to be one to five and probably won't lose.
00:53:33But the Ghost Zapper Stakes features White Iberio, who decided to run in this rather
00:53:37than go to Saudi Arabia as the connections thought it would set him up better for the
00:53:42spring, summer and early summer races like the Met Mile and the Whitney and whatnot.
00:53:47So I would think that he'll be a heavy favorite and likely win the Ghost Zapper Stakes.
00:53:52Did you see that video of TNT and Charles Barkley?
00:53:56It's on Axis Hysterical.
00:53:58Ernie Johnson asked Charles Barkley a question, and he wasn't prepared at all.
00:54:03He wasn't prepared at all for anything to respond to that question.
00:54:07And it was comical.
00:54:08You need to watch it.
00:54:09I haven't even looked at the Ghost Zapper.
00:54:10That's where I'm going.
00:54:11Oh, I mean, White Iberio should definitely win this race.
00:54:17Obviously, like you mentioned, it's a stepping stone.
00:54:20Thor will probably take a little bit of money.
00:54:25But again, not a terribly intriguing race.
00:54:28Hopefully everybody runs in there against him.
00:54:32The TD and Writer's Room brought to you by the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders
00:54:36Association.
00:54:37As we continue our look at Pennsylvania stallions farm by farm this week, we go to
00:54:41Cavan Creek Farm Gettysburg to look at its five stallions.
00:54:45Let's start with Il Volano, the sire of 69% winners and 7% stakes winners from his
00:54:52starter's lifetime.
00:54:53Imposing.
00:54:54There's imposing.
00:54:55He's the only son of Gunrunner standing outside of Kentucky, and he's out of the
00:54:59champion three-year-old filly, Untappable, the Breeders' Cup winner, $4 million earner.
00:55:06Gunrunner out of Untappable.
00:55:07That's imposing.
00:55:08Red Vine is the only son of Candy Ride in Pennsylvania.
00:55:12He's the sire of 72% winners from starters, and he's the Pennsylvania sire with the
00:55:17leading average earnings per runner, $14,350.
00:55:22Let's go next to Magic Spoon, an undefeated two-year-old stakes winner.
00:55:26He's not two-year-old now, but when he was a two-year-old, he was an undefeated stakes
00:55:30winner by the up-and-coming sire, Good Magic.
00:55:33Four-time graded stakes winner on all three surfaces.
00:55:36Some like it hot brown.
00:55:38We'll see his first foals born this spring.
00:55:41Remember him with trainer Mike Maker.
00:55:43To learn more, take a look at the 2025 Stallion and Boarding Farm Directory online at pabread.com
00:55:50or call 610-444-1050.
00:55:57PA Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:56:01It's excitement at every step.
00:56:04Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
00:56:07On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders'
00:56:13awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
00:56:16Plus, PA Bread shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:56:19Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:56:22Learn more at pabread.com.
00:56:27Be a smarter better with First TV, the best horses.
00:56:33With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
00:56:38All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
00:56:45Everything you need to be informed.
00:56:48Be smart, bet smart with First TV.
00:56:55The TDM Writer's Room is brought to you by First TV.
00:56:58This week's Work of the Week is Phil D'Amato's Vodka with a Twist.
00:57:02Remember her?
00:57:03She's working towards her first start this year.
00:57:06The five furlong move in 102 and four was her ninth back work this year.
00:57:11The runner-up in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies was last seen running third in the
00:57:15Grade 2 Starlet Stakes in December.
00:57:18She is preparing to make her three-year-old debut in the Grade 2
00:57:22Fasig-Tipton Oaks on April the 5th.
00:57:25That is her working with Public Assembly.
00:57:28She sat behind and finished up very nicely indeed.
00:57:32Well, this weekend's racing includes more than just what's going on at Gulfstream.
00:57:36There's a huge card as well at the home of the Arkansas Derby, Oaklawn Park.
00:57:41The Arkansas Derby is the 13th race in the card.
00:57:44And we've been talking off-air about a horse by the name of Cornucopian,
00:57:48who is a very interesting horse.
00:57:50Is the 7 to 5 morning line favorite.
00:57:53Has run only one time for Bob Baffert in a six furlong race.
00:57:58Then got a 101 buyer.
00:58:00Now is having to stretch out to the mile and an eighth in the Arkansas Derby.
00:58:04Draws the outside post.
00:58:06I tell you, this horse might be the second coming of whomever.
00:58:10He's going to be the favorite.
00:58:11I can't bet on this horse under those circumstances.
00:58:16Obviously, Baffert knows what he's doing, but I think he's asking just too much of this horse
00:58:20and that we may see a little bit of improvement down the road.
00:58:24Maybe he's more a Travers or Haskell kind of horse.
00:58:28But some interesting horses in here.
00:58:29And I wonder why Colbattle never gets any respect.
00:58:32He was 11 to 1 last time out on the Rebel.
00:58:35Don't hear anybody talking about him coming into this race.
00:58:38But if I have to make a pick, it's going to be Sandman,
00:58:41who got beat by Colbattle last time out.
00:58:43But I still look back at his Southwest stakes,
00:58:45where he ran a tremendous race to finish second after a horrible trip.
00:58:50Hopefully, he will run back to that, Randy.
00:58:53Yeah, I'm looking at the past performances right now of these horses.
00:58:57Speed King has got a little bit of speed, as his name might suggest.
00:59:02But other than that, when you go through these horses, horse by horse by horse,
00:59:08very little early speed in this race.
00:59:11So that's going to play, I think, to the advantage of Cornucopia.
00:59:14And I agree with you.
00:59:16He's 7 to 5 in the morning line.
00:59:17It's awfully hard to take that kind of a price
00:59:21against a horse being asked to do what he's being asked to do.
00:59:24But we know the talent level is there.
00:59:26We know that from his career debut.
00:59:28Bob Baffert doesn't think the distance is going to be a problem for him.
00:59:33Zoe, you've seen him out there.
00:59:34What's your opinion of it?
00:59:36He's a good horse.
00:59:37And you have to bear in mind the connections as well.
00:59:39SF and Starlight, not only did they want to win the Derby,
00:59:43they want to win any big prep around.
00:59:46So that really plays into the hand of this horse going there.
00:59:49Obviously, Arad will be riding in Florida this weekend.
00:59:53So they pick up Johnny V, who is Johnny on the spot when it comes to Bob.
00:59:57Bob's just got to call him.
00:59:59He knows what he's going to get with Johnny.
01:00:01He's obviously going to want this horse forwardly placed.
01:00:03He comes in with some very good works against some very good stablemates as well
01:00:09that he's outworked.
01:00:10So Cornucopian gets a good draw on the outside.
01:00:13And one thing about Bob with horses with speed,
01:00:16and one thing that he can trust in Johnny V,
01:00:18is if he says go to Johnny V, Johnny's going to go.
01:00:21He's not going to overthink things.
01:00:24So Cornucopian's in there.
01:00:26Obviously, you've got Dwayne Lucas in there.
01:00:28You're going to get some speed with Nick Juarez riding that horse.
01:00:31He's probably the only opposition.
01:00:33Is he the California speed in there?
01:00:36I don't think so.
01:00:37Sorry, the leaf blower's going off.
01:00:39That's what's making the noise.
01:00:40It's raining outside, by the way,
01:00:42but we've still got leaf blowers here in Southern California.
01:00:47And who else was I going to talk about in the...
01:00:49Oh, yeah, of course.
01:00:50Cole Bartle.
01:00:52What a cool horse.
01:00:53I hope he wins by 10.
01:00:55So Lucas has won the Arkansas Derby twice.
01:00:58Back to back.
01:00:59Althea in 1984 and Tank's Prospect in 1985.
01:01:06Now he's won.
01:01:07He's run 31 horses in all in the Arkansas Derby.
01:01:10This will be 32.
01:01:12But yeah, you got to go back 39 and 40 years.
01:01:15And that's the barn he's in, Althea.
01:01:18Yeah.
01:01:19Oh, there's a lot of stories about Althea back in the day.
01:01:22I was actually covering her Arkansas Derby for a newspaper.
01:01:26That was amazing.
01:01:27Can you talk about any of them?
01:01:29Or is that not for publication anymore?
01:01:31No, I can.
01:01:31Yeah.
01:01:32So it's 1984 and Althea runs in...
01:01:36I'll try to make this quick.
01:01:37She runs in the Fantasy Stakes against my darling one,
01:01:40a filly trained by Laz Barrera.
01:01:42Althea was the champion two-year-old filly.
01:01:44She goes to her nose at the start.
01:01:46She's a speed horse.
01:01:47She makes a big rushing move with P-Val
01:01:50along the rail on the backstretch,
01:01:52gets shut off, drops back to last.
01:01:55It's only like a six or seven horse field.
01:01:57Circles the field, hooks up with my darling one
01:01:59at the top of the stretch.
01:02:00They pull away head to head,
01:02:02like 10 or 12 links ahead of the rest of the field.
01:02:04My darling one beats her at the wire
01:02:06and the buyer figure comes back
01:02:07something like a 108, 109.
01:02:10After all that, unbelievable.
01:02:12And I go to Wayne's Barn the next day
01:02:14to write something for one of the trade publications
01:02:17because I knew Wayne back then
01:02:18even was pretty aggressive.
01:02:20And I said, any chance you'll run this filly back
01:02:22in a week in the Arkansas Derby?
01:02:25And he said, no, no, no, no, no.
01:02:26We're going to go to the Kentucky Oaks.
01:02:28It's okay.
01:02:28So I write in this publication,
01:02:31not going to run in the Arkansas Derby.
01:02:33So two or three days later,
01:02:34he enters her in the Arkansas Derby.
01:02:36I go back to the barn.
01:02:37I said, Wayne, why would you do that to me?
01:02:40Why I asked you, why would you tell me that?
01:02:42He said, I didn't want you guys hanging around
01:02:44the barn all week long.
01:02:47And what does she do in the Arkansas Derby?
01:02:49She goes wire to wire and behind her is gate dancer.
01:02:55She wins by seven.
01:02:57And behind her is gate dancer who obviously goes on
01:03:00to do what gate dancer went on to do.
01:03:02It was an unbelievable performance.
01:03:05So in the fantasy stakes,
01:03:07which is the prep for the Kentucky Oaks at Oakland,
01:03:10Wayne Lucas has a horse in there
01:03:11by the name of Princess Aliyah.
01:03:13Very interesting, this relationship
01:03:15he's developed now with Nick Juarez,
01:03:17who's a terrific guy, by the way,
01:03:19but it's certainly not somebody you normally think of
01:03:22as somebody who'd be getting mounts
01:03:23in these big grade one races.
01:03:26This is an interesting race as well.
01:03:28Quiet Side is the horse to beat, I think,
01:03:30after winning the Honeybee by a length.
01:03:32And that was a really loaded field that day.
01:03:35The horse had been a little bit of an enigma
01:03:38for trainer John Ortiz.
01:03:40Kept running well, but wasn't winning.
01:03:42And again, I'm in the wise guy mood today.
01:03:48I'm actually gonna pick Take Charge, My Lady.
01:03:51And she was awful in the Honeybee, beating 32 lengths.
01:03:55When I see something like that from a good trainer
01:03:58where the horse gets beat 30, 40 lengths or is eased,
01:04:01it tells me that something happened.
01:04:03And the trainer understands why,
01:04:05and then it's not gonna happen again.
01:04:06He's gonna run them right back.
01:04:08It says straight start traffic.
01:04:10She had a little bit of a problem at the start,
01:04:13but I don't think that had anything to do
01:04:15with how awful she was.
01:04:16So maybe Kenny McPeak can surprise him here
01:04:19with Take Charge, My Lady.
01:04:21But this is a good one.
01:04:22And Simply Joking also, too, deserves your respect.
01:04:26That has only run twice for Whit Beckman,
01:04:30but two for two.
01:04:31And that's coming into the fantasy,
01:04:33trying to get some points.
01:04:34Has zero points for the Kentucky Oaks as we speak.
01:04:37Well, Take Charge, My Lady, when you go back
01:04:39and you watch the replay of that race,
01:04:41she did get, she broke about a half a step slow.
01:04:45So you see this all the time leaving the gate.
01:04:47She lost her spot.
01:04:48And then the two horses on either side of her came over
01:04:51and squeezed her pretty badly.
01:04:53And she was back in last going into the first turn,
01:04:56which is not really the way that she wants to run.
01:04:59And when she didn't respond the way LePereux
01:05:01wanted her to respond at about the 5.16 pole,
01:05:04he just threw out the ball.
01:05:06He just threw out the anchor.
01:05:07And the length of the stretch, she was just being eased.
01:05:10So I think that race, I've got it written down
01:05:12as a complete throw out.
01:05:15So I'm expecting her to bounce back.
01:05:16Now, whether she'll bounce back to the level of Quiet Side
01:05:19and Simply Joking is another matter.
01:05:22Simply Joking was supposed to run against Good Cheer
01:05:25in the Rachel Alexandra,
01:05:27which is going to be a nice showdown,
01:05:28but she got sick and had to be scratched from that race,
01:05:31which is why she hasn't run since mid-January.
01:05:34I like Simply Joking.
01:05:35I also like Quiet Side,
01:05:37and neither one of them is going to pay very much whatsoever
01:05:40at the windows,
01:05:41but I was delighted to see Quiet Side
01:05:44jump through in a big way.
01:05:45Maybe the light bulb's just gone on
01:05:47and she's going to figure things out a better way to do it.
01:05:50But Simply Joking's a good filly.
01:05:52She's a really good filly for Whit Beckman.
01:05:55TD and Writer's Room also brought to you
01:05:56by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:05:58We have discussed the upcoming Arkansas Derby
01:06:01as it pertains to West Point.
01:06:02Bill likes Sandman.
01:06:05So does Terry Finley and West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:06:07Sandman, their horse, they're the co-owner.
01:06:09So the Arkansas Derby, $1.5 million.
01:06:12That's big, but even bigger are the points at stake.
01:06:15Sandman right now has 29 points.
01:06:18So third place finish might do it, probably will.
01:06:23So a one, two, three finish
01:06:24is what they're looking for for Sandman,
01:06:25who will have a new jockey, Jose Ortiz,
01:06:28aboard in the Arkansas Derby for trainer Mark Cassidy.
01:06:31Sandman, the second choice on the morning line
01:06:33behind Cornucopian at odds of three to one.
01:06:38All the thrills.
01:06:42Fraction of the bills.
01:06:47Experience the power of the partnership.
01:06:53Change your life, make new friends,
01:06:55and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:07:00West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:07:01the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:07:04Visit westpointtb.com.
01:07:09That's a wrap on this week's show.
01:07:10I want to thank my co-host Zoe Cabin and Randy Moss.
01:07:14And of course, Randy Moss, where would he
01:07:16be without Lucy, our mascot?
01:07:18She looks like she's having a great time.
01:07:21And it's actually moving around a little bit, Randy.
01:07:23Good for her.
01:07:24So anyways, I want to thank that team.
01:07:27Also, Damon Thayer, the Gainesway Guest of the Week,
01:07:31as well as our producers and directors.
01:07:33That's Sue Finley, Anthony LaRocca,
01:07:35Aaliyah LaRocca, and Katie Petroniak.
01:07:37Well, again, once again, that's a wrap
01:07:39on this week's TDN Writer's Room podcast.