At Tuesday's House Judiciary Committee hearing, Rep. Brandon Gill (R-TX) questioned Patrick Purtill, Senior Vice President and General Counsel at Unify US, about federal prison policy.
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00:00The gentleman from the great state of Texas, Mr. Gill.
00:04Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here and testifying and taking the time.
00:11Mr. Pirtle, thank you as well.
00:14I want to start with you.
00:16Given the decline in personnel across BOP facilities, and we've got nearly 4,000 vacancies,
00:23do you believe it was a wise decision for the previous administration
00:26to put any resources at all towards gender-affirming care for BOP inmates?
00:32As I said earlier, I think that it's such a small percent of the population.
00:37It's not the core issues that BOP is facing.
00:41Right.
00:41I certainly believe it's not a core issue we should be spending money towards.
00:46Is it also the case that BOP facilities are experiencing widespread deterioration
00:51and are in need of maintenance?
00:52According to the Department's Inspector General, literally every single facility faces deferred expenses,
01:01deferred maintenance expenses.
01:03Do you think that there's additional stress that comes with perhaps some of the logistical challenges
01:09and safety concerns of housing, transgender and inmates with the opposite sex,
01:14and perhaps maybe that contributed to some of the low retention rates
01:18and hiring rates experienced at the BOP?
01:21In all honesty, I couldn't say.
01:22Once again, I think that there are so many issues that go into the staffing issue.
01:27Did it play a part?
01:28Very well could have, but there are so many factors there.
01:33What about some of the anti-law enforcement rhetoric that we hear on the other side of the aisle,
01:39including from the former vice president who once praised the defund the police movement?
01:44Do you think that that's contributed at all to some of the staffing challenges at BOP?
01:48Well, I think the fact that law enforcement, prosecutors, corrections officers,
01:53I think that there's been an unfortunate trend.
01:56We've seen it in law school recruiting for prosecutors that there's been an unfortunate trend
02:00to kind of demonize the entire field, regardless of wherever that has come from.
02:05I think that that has been harmful.
02:06I think it's unfair to the people who go into that line of work.
02:10And what role do you think DOGE can play in identifying waste and fraud at the BOP?
02:15That is beyond my kin.
02:17I'm so sorry.
02:19Any guesses?
02:20Well, as I tell my kids, as with any very, very large institution,
02:26there's going to be waste and fraud, even when the vast majority of people are working in good faith.
02:34It never hurts.
02:35It's always good to pop the hood and check the oil and take a look at what's going on.
02:40So I think that the DOGE process could, I think it may turn out to be very, very beneficial.
02:45I think a lot of it is going to be able to inform you in your oversight activities to make decisions going forward.
02:52Got it.
02:52Thank you very much.
02:53And, Mr. Chair, with that, I'll yield the remainder of my time back to you.
03:00So with that little bit of time, first of all, I really do appreciate you all being here.
03:05It's a long, long day.
03:06I didn't even give you a chance for a break, and I probably should have.
03:09I was remiss, but it was glad because now we're done.
03:13Secondly, I'll say, as I did before, I hope that we can move forward in some areas, in some ways, find common ground.
03:21And thirdly, and the one thing I will mention with a little bit of time left, I've actually interviewed some corrections officers at multiple locations who have come to me in my office.
03:33I wouldn't call them whistleblowers because they didn't, you know, trigger the Whistleblower Act, but told me stories.
03:40You know, we're kind of saying that there's like one or two people in the whole country with transgender issues.
03:44They're still doing intake, and it costs a lot of money on those that want to change their sex, that want to be transgender.
03:53This is from corrections officers who directly work there, who have good reputations, whom I know, that we're explaining what's going on.
04:02Number one, that costs money.
04:03Secondly, the other issue and the reason that it costs money is because, as you know, I mentioned, in fact, my facility back home has to cater to some of that because when they mix with the rest of the population, unfortunately, there are issues for them, for their own security and safety.
04:21So it makes things more complicated, it makes issues, more violence is prone to happen, and it also costs more because of the specialization they need, both medical, if they go through it all the way, as well as correctional.
04:35In other words, they need more protection, and they need to have special status and special help.
04:41So, yeah, it does cost money, and no, it's not just like one person in all 50 states.
04:46It's not.
04:47In fact, if you talk to most of them, almost any facility will tell you some of the issues they're having with that.
04:53And the real issue is, I don't know how else to say it, and I'm not saying they should be, but they still have their desires very often, and it really is tough on the women.
05:05If we care about women, then we should care about this issue and some of the terrible things that are happening.
05:12With that, it concludes today.
05:14Mr. Chairman, I have two UCs.
05:16I'm sorry.
05:18The first one, I asked unanimous consent to enter into the record and article,
05:23Transgender inmates are more...