At Tuesday's House Financial Services Committee hearing, Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) and other Democratic lawmakers walked out of a hearing on digital assets to protest President Trump's actions in cryptocurrency.
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00:00The subcommittee will come to order.
00:27I note that today's committee activity will be viewed.
00:30I object to this joint hearing pursuant to the House rules.
00:34This joint hearing requires unanimous consent, and I do not consent.
00:41You are recognized.
00:44May I ask the basis for the objection from the ranking member?
00:56I object to this joint hearing pursuant to the House rules.
01:02This joint hearing requires unanimous consent, and I do not consent.
01:09Does the lady yield for a question?
01:15Will the ranking member yield?
01:18Mr. Chairman, I would ask if the lady would yield for a question.
01:33Will the ranking member of the Committee on Financial Services yield to a question?
01:37Mr. Chairman, I would just note, by way of context for the ranking member, I understand
01:49your objection, or I understand that you have made it.
01:53I just want to get a better insight into what is the basis of your objection, so that if
02:10there's something that we can do to remove that problem, we can work in good faith to do so.
02:29I object to this joint hearing because of the corruption of the President of the United States, and his ownership of crypto, and his oversight of all the agencies, I object.
02:44Mr. Chairman, before I yield, I would just note that a good regulatory product, good regulatory rules of the road, I think would provide an environment where people would have more faith in the marketplace.
02:55I think these conversations are a critically important part of getting there.
03:00The chairman of the full Committee on the Financial Services, Mr. Hill, is recognized.
03:04Thanks, Chairman Stile.
03:05I want to be really clear and set the record straight today.
03:08The ranking members expressed concern about conflicts of interest, which is why she's disrupting today's joint hearing.
03:14Through her actions today, the ranking member has thrown partisanship into what has historically been a strong, good, working, bipartisan relationship.
03:22For those of you that may not know, we held a similar joint hearing in this same building in May 2023 under the leadership of Chairman Thompson, then ranking member David Scott, former Chairman McHenry, and ranking member Waters.
03:36The purpose of that hearing, like today's hearing, is to discuss the importance of rules for digital assets so that every market participant must abide by them.
03:48I was encouraged by the engagement that we received from last Congress by members on both sides of the aisle.
03:54There was overwhelming support from the House Democrats and Republicans on legislation that brings digital asset markets into the regulatory perimeter and closes the gaps in regulation.
04:06Gaps that we all agree exist. Gaps that President Biden agrees that exist. Gaps that President Trump agrees that exist.
04:14Members worked hard to provide robust consumer protections and they did so in a manner that would make our constituents proud.
04:22We left our differences at the door and we were honest and transparent in our legislative work.
04:28Members on both sides of our committees are committed to crafting legislation to provide that regulatory clarity to encourage responsible actors in the digital asset ecosystem.
04:38That's what most of the members in this room are here to discuss today.
04:45As the ranking member currently pointed out, to hold a joint hearing, we must receive unanimous consent from both Republicans and Democrats to proceed.
04:53The ranking member received ample notice, more than six weeks, and negotiated an additional witness for the minority.
05:00Yet after that good faith effort, the ranking member is objecting today.
05:05We agreed not to notice legislation to this joint hearing, yet the ranking member is objecting today.
05:11We determined a seating chart, discussed opening statements and witnesses, yet the ranking member is objecting today.
05:19I want to thank Agriculture Ranking Member Craig and her staff, Subcommittee Ranking Member Don Davis, Chairman Benham, and our witnesses who've traveled here to be dedicated to their time to share their views with the committee.
05:32I also want to thank Chairman Thompson, Subcommittee Chairs Johnson and Stile, and my staff for your commitment for working relentlessly with the minority.
05:41Hearings are an opportunity for Congress and the American people to explore important matters of policy together.
05:48Whether we agree or disagree on policy, we hold them publicly so that our constituents can understand how we work to better their lives.
05:59This hearing would have served as a forum for financial services and agriculture members to learn from our panelists and discuss solutions to issues.
06:09And given the cross-jurisdictional nature of the work, a joint hearing has been very, very needed.
06:15While I understand the ranking member has concerns, but by objecting to this hearing, the ranking member is undermining the opportunity for these two committees to engage in a conversation of vital importance to the American people.
06:28That's a loss for our committees, the House, and the public at large.
06:32The votes of us that remain in this room will not sit idly by and abandon the urgent work we have before us that our committees have set out to do.
06:41We will sit together, hear from these good witnesses, and ask questions and learn from your expertise.
06:47We'll do the difficult work of finding common ground on issues like digital assets that matter so strongly to Americans.
06:55We will try not to silence one another over policy disagreements.
07:00This is just the beginning of the discussion, and I look forward to seeing how we can move forward in a bipartisan way.
07:05I yield back to the chair.
07:06Mr. Chairman.
07:07Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
07:08Mr. Chairman.
07:09Does the ranking member insist upon her objection?
07:11I insist upon my objection, and I'd like everyone to join me in CVC Room 217.
07:18The objection to convening this meeting is heard.
07:19The objection to convening this meeting is heard.
07:22Trump's crypto corruption.
07:24The ranking member's objection to the meeting is heard.
07:28We'll now move on to a roundtable.
07:29Mr. Chairman, may I be heard on the objection?
07:31The ranking member of the subcommittee, Mr. Lynch, is recognized.
07:34Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
07:36Mr. Chairman, ranking and to my colleagues on the Agricultural Committee as well,
07:41ranking member Waters has objected to this hearing because of the clear conflicts of interest between President Trump
07:47and his family's personal crypto ventures and the legislative proposals our committee are considering.
07:55President Trump and his family are exploiting the presidency to enrich themselves using their personal crypto business,
08:01World Liberty Financial.
08:04Never in American history has a sitting president so blatantly violated the ethics laws, reclaiming my time.
08:14The gentleman was offered a moment to comment on the objection.
08:19President Trump's crypto dealings are estimated to be a total of $2.9 billion in value and nearly 40% of his total wealth.
08:28You will be recognized during this hearing.
08:30If the gentleman, Mr. Lynch, would be noticed if he was in a hearing, he would have the ability to speak under the protections that are provided in the House Rules.
08:40Every detail of his dealings contain a conflict of interest.
08:44Ranking member Lynch, you are no longer recognized by the chair.
08:46The gentlelady's objection is heard.
08:48We'll now move in.
08:49Mr. Chairman.
08:50Can I ask if my remarks be answered into the record?
08:54It is too bad for the ranking member that it is not a hearing.
08:57If it was a hearing, the ranking member would be protected by House Rules.
09:00There was an objection from the ranking member of the full committee.
09:02The ranking member insists on her objection.
09:04I object.
09:05The committee, the objection is heard.
09:08The objection is heard.
09:09And we will now move in to a roundtable.
09:11We want to hear from our participants who have traveled to share their expertise with us.
09:17And I would ask that participants make brief remarks.
09:21To keep our members on track, I'd also ask that they limit their comments and questions to five minutes.
09:27To open the roundtable, I'd like to ask Agriculture Subcommittee on Commodity Markets, Digital Assets, and Rural Development Chairman Johnson to offer remarks.
09:37Well, a rose by any other name smells just as sweet.
09:41This is the second public event these two committees have done together.
09:46I think it's a remarkable degree of cooperation and partnership.
09:50And I think it builds on the work of last term where Democrats and Republicans, ag and financial services work together to get things done.
09:59And for me, today is we get so lost in some of the terminology.
10:05You know, what about the Howey test?
10:07And what about this?
10:08And what about, you know, custody?
10:11And these things matter.
10:12But ultimately, to me, it comes down to two gentlemen, Mark and Mike.
10:17The Ag Subcommittee, or maybe it was the full committee, I forget, had a really good hearing a couple of weeks ago where we talked about the real-world applications.
10:30And Don Davis was there and helped me manage that subcommittee hearing where we talked about the real-world use cases of digital assets and blockchain technology.
10:40And how they can enhance the lives of everyday Americans.
10:43Mark Tagg, a fourth-generation cattleman in Oklahoma, he co-founded Cattleproof to improve those cattle markets.
10:51Mike Horton, an engineer in California, developed GeoNet to create an accessible worldwide precision mapping network.
10:59These are real-world problems that these gentlemen have used blockchain technology to help solve.
11:08Without tokens, the blockchain wouldn't work and neither Cattleproof nor GeoNet would exist.
11:15And so let's not forget these stories as we talk through the CFTC and the SEC and jurisdictional battles and the Howey test and decentralization,
11:24exempt offerings and secondary trading.
11:27This legal discussion only matters because if we get it right, it will empower entrepreneurs and it will encourage innovation.
11:35If we give Americans like Mark and Mike certainty about how to build with digital assets, they will create better services that improve our country.
11:45So to me, that's really the point of the hearing.
11:48The regulatory framework only matters because innovation matters.
11:52And I do want to close, Mr. Chairman, by thanking our panelists for traveling here, for taking their time to prepare their remarks and to help make sure that we get a better product.
12:06I would want to thank my colleagues on the other side of the aisle who stay here and continue to do their work.
12:13Ultimately, the world is run by those who show up.
12:16And for members who have shown up, they are giving a beautiful gift to these committees, to the House and ultimately to the American people.
12:27With that, I yield.
12:28The gentleman yields back.
12:30I now recognize the ranking member of the Agriculture Committee, Mr. Davis, to offer remarks.
12:35Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12:37And to the witnesses who are here this morning, I strongly believe the future of American innovation depends on our ability to lead in the digital economy.
12:49Digital assets and blockchain technology are not passing trends.
12:54They are foundational technologies with the potential of revolutionizing everything from financial services and supply chains to how we deliver aid, store data, and connect rural communities to global markets.
13:09And if we want to ensure that innovation continues to flourish, we must provide a clear and forward-looking regulatory framework.
13:17And that means working to bring certainty to innovators, investors, and consumers.
13:24We must clarify the roles of the SEC and the CFTC.
13:29Reduced regulatory fragmentation ensure the rules reflect the unique nature of this technology.
13:35I also emphasize the enormous potential digital assets hold for communities like the ones that I represent in eastern North Carolina.
13:44This technology could unlock new pathways for rural development, financial inclusion, and economic resilience.
13:52But that can only happen if we create a policy environment that fosters innovation while upholding market integrity and investor protection.
14:00Let's be clear.
14:02American leadership in this space is not guaranteed.
14:06Other countries are moving quickly to attract talent, capital, and infrastructure.
14:13If we do not act with vision and purpose, we risk ceding that leadership and with it the value that define our markets.
14:23I look forward to working with my colleagues to ensure the United States remain a global leader.
14:30Thank you. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses.
14:33I yield back.
14:34I thank my colleague for his remark. I recognize myself.
14:37But before I begin my remarks, I would like to acknowledge what just occurred.
14:43For over a month, the majority on both the Financial Services Committee and the Agriculture Committee worked in good faith to organize this subcommittee hearing.
14:53Desired to foster a really meaningful dialogue on digital assets and the legislative solutions needed to close the existing regulatory gaps.
15:03And while some of my colleagues have chosen to leave the room, our work continues undeterred.
15:09This legislation is simply too important to not engage in an open, public discussion about how the United States can lead in Web 3.
15:19I remain hopeful that we will soon recognize the stakes and the critical importance of robust, nonpartisan engagement in this process.
15:27More than 15 years ago, a nine-page document, the Bitcoin White Paper, sparked a shift in how we think about money, trust, and value.
15:37The idea that sparked the digital asset ecosystem.
15:40Innovators have since built decentralized networks that offer services once thought unimaginable.
15:46But innovation has not followed a straight line.
15:49Outdated regulatory frameworks and a regulation by enforcement approach by then-Chair Gary Gensler and the Biden administration stifled clarity and pushed jobs, investment, and leadership offshore.
16:01Worse, the uncertainty has exposed consumers to greater risk from fraud and mismanagement.
16:06Congress has both the opportunity and the responsibility to act.
16:11We must pass comprehensive, bipartisan legislation that provides clarity and fosters responsible innovation.
16:18Last month, Chairman French Hill, G.T. Thompson, introduced six core principles that now form the basis of the discussion draft on market structure released yesterday.
16:28Today's roundtable will evaluate those principles and address key questions about one, asset classification.
16:35Two, agency jurisdiction over centralized intermediaries.
16:40Three, reducing regulatory fragmentation.
16:43And four, establishing guardrails that support innovation.
16:47To me, the path forward is clear.
16:49The choices that we make now will determine whether the United States remains a global leader in digital finance or if we fall behind.
16:56And I thank our panelists for being here today, and I look forward to a robust and thoughtful conversation.
17:03I'll now recognize the ranking member of the Committee on Agriculture, Ms. Craig, to offer remarks.
17:08Thank you so much to our witnesses for being here today.
17:14This is a really important conversation.
17:17I'm here because I think we need to be engaged and part of the discussion to agree on the rules of the road as they relate to crypto.
17:26It isn't going away, and we have a responsibility to be here and be part of the solution.
17:32If we're successful in working together, then legitimate enterprises will innovate and thrive, and consumers and retail investors will be protected.
17:41If we fail to find a bipartisan solution to these pressing questions, we will witness more scandals, and consumers will not have the protections that they so clearly need.
17:53It's important and it's legitimate to call out the self-dealing from the Trump administration related to hawking meme coins from the White House.
18:03It's corrupt, it's wrong, and it makes this process of coming together to regulate crypto more partisan than it needs to be.
18:13While these conversations may be difficult, they are important for our constituents.
18:18I'm pleased that we're moving forward with this roundtable today, and with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
18:25I thank the gentlelady for her remarks.
18:27The gentleman, the Chairman of the Committee on Agriculture, Mr. Thompson, has recognized to offer remarks.
18:32Thank you, Mr. Stile.
18:34For two and a half years, our committees have worked together on legislation writing rules of the road for digital asset markets.
18:41I'm proud of what we've accomplished last Congress with FIT.
18:45It is a great example of what can happen when we work together.
18:49Unfortunately, today is an example of what happens when we cannot work together.
18:53We wind up with a second-best solution.
18:56But the discussion today will go on.
18:59I appreciate all our colleagues who have chosen to make time for these witnesses and this discussion today.
19:05We have a rare opportunity to make law this Congress and to be the authors of legislation which will change the way we use the Internet and how we interact in the digital commodity.
19:16I want to thank Chairman Hill, Chairman Stile, and the entire membership of the Financial Services Committee for your continued partnership in this work.
19:27I would also be remiss if I didn't recognize our terrific committee leadership and Ranking Member Craig, Chairman Johnson, and Ranking Member Davis.
19:36We are blessed with an abundance of thoughtful legislators who are eager to work on digital asset legislation.
19:43Finally, welcome and thank you to our witnesses and especially a warm welcome back to Chairman Benham.
19:49I appreciate all the time and effort you each have spent preparing for today and I look forward to the discussion and yield back the balance of my time.
19:57The gentleman yields back.
19:59Does the subcommittee, Chair Mr. Lynch, offer, are you interested in offering comments on the topic?
20:06I am.
20:07I would like to address the round table, which I did not before.
20:10I will recognize that.
20:11All right.
20:12Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
20:13President Trump's crypto dealings are estimated to total about $2.9 billion in value and nearly 40% of his total wealth.
20:20Between using his meme coin, governance token, and USDI stable coin, of which 75% of the proceeds go to the Trump family, every detail of his dealings contain a conflict of interest.
20:31Last week, the New York Times released an extensive investigation outlining President Trump's many conflicts of interest.
20:36To put it bluntly, I quote,
20:39World Liberty Financial has eviscerated the boundary between private enterprise and government policy in ways without president in American history.
20:48Last Thursday, I know this hearing has been planned and this gathering has been planned for a while, but last Thursday in a meeting in Dubai,
20:55Trump's family's company made a deal with the Dubai investor to contribute to invest $2 billion that will benefit the Trump family.
21:07There's a clear, I understand crypto, I understand the other issues here, but this goes, this is a mechanism by which other people outside foreign interests can actually influence our president.
21:22Not just this one, but in the future as well.
21:25And I think that's a relevant issue before this forum.
21:29And I do thank the witnesses for their willingness to come here and assist the round table with its work.
21:34Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21:35I yield back.
21:36The gentleman yields back.
21:37The Chairman of the Financial Services Committee, Chairman Hill, is recognized.
21:41Thank you, Chairman.
21:42I want to thank our witnesses again for your time being away from your missions to share your views with us today.
21:47As noted, look, we provided the minority six weeks of notice and lavishly structured a joint process between the Ag Committee, the Financial Services Committee, minority and majority.
22:00So I just continue to be disappointed in Ranking Member Waters' decision to exit the meeting and object.
22:07In the 118th Congress, we made tremendous progress.
22:10We made significant strides to build bipartisan, bicameral consensus on how to craft a regulatory framework for digital assets.
22:1871 Democrats in the last Congress joined Republicans in passing last Congress's regulatory framework view that Mr. Thompson and I offered Fit 21.
22:30It's the precursor of the work we're doing here today.
22:33We've turned the page.
22:34We're approaching it in a fresh way.
22:36And this round table is essential to getting new views on how to go in a different direction.
22:43To my friends on the other side of the aisle, our door is always open.
22:48No regulatory framework that's fit for purpose for digital assets that provides oversight, development and innovation in America, that's a failure.
22:59Just as no clarity for what is a quality dollar-backed stablecoin, if we don't do that, that's a failure.
23:06Because that leaves the regulatory gap that was pointed out thoroughly by both President Biden and President Trump.
23:12And this committee, working together with Ag and Financial Services on a bicameral, bipartisan basis, we're going to get the job done.
23:20And I want to thank all of you for being here today.
23:22I want to thank our chair, and I will yield back.
23:25The gentleman yields back.
23:26I'd like to briefly introduce our participants today.
23:31Mr. James Rothman is general counsel at Hawn Ventures, a venture capital firm that supports cryptocurrency-related startups.
23:38Mr. Alex Miller is the chief executive officer at Hero Systems.