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00:00Manhood, brought you in part by Reboot, Super Farm and Solomon's Bespoke.
00:10Welcome to another episode of Manhood where we always aim to be better as brothers.
00:16And I think by now we are achieving it.
00:19Every episode, every conversation, small steps, are certainly making us better as brothers.
00:25And I hope it's making you better as a brother, better as a sister for whoever is looking.
00:30And the aim of the show is always about positivity and reaching out to people and hoping that you take that step to be a better person.
00:38You know, they always say the aim is always to leave a room better than you met it and to leave this earth better than you found it.
00:45So today's topic is another good one and one that's going to be reminiscent for certain people, nostalgic in certain ways.
00:53And for others, it'll be a lesson. It's boys then to now.
00:58Boys then to now.
00:59And joining me today, Johan Seayoudike, behavior change consultant.
01:04To his right, Marlon Bascom, youth community activist, we'd say it.
01:08Advocate.
01:09Advocate.
01:09And there's a lot of story behind that that we'd like to hear, you know, with what's happening in the United States now that may impact that.
01:18But we're really happy to have you on the set here today to share a lot of your insight with regards to, you know, children's authority, you know, sort of really pave the way or to set the tone for the conversation here today, which is boys then to now.
01:31Definitely. Thanks for having me.
01:33I must, you know, be remiss of me not to introduce the young gentleman to your right, you know, Sucre, you know, one of the men at the moment, now an artist, a writer, part of Evolution, the band.
01:46Yes, sir.
01:46Right now, really pumping, you know, pushing on those waves right now and especially during the carnival period.
01:52So, you know, thanks for being here.
01:55Definitely, man.
01:56Definitely.
01:57A real big topic.
01:59So, I want you boys then to now, men then to now.
02:04Were you noticed?
02:06Boy, well, the biggest elephant in the room is the advent of and the fact of social media.
02:12So, literally, if I compare myself to my sons, I have two boys, the older one is 14 and we have to actively break them from the screen.
02:25You know what I mean?
02:26If I give my older son, he's 14, if I give him a chance, he like this all day, every day.
02:32The phone or the tablet screen, right?
02:35And you have to be deliberate about breaking that up and making sure, okay, we go outside for a walk.
02:40We're swimming now.
02:41Do they give any resistance?
02:44No, just because, and it's really and truly only because I'm their father and that level of respect, sometimes they don't want to do it.
02:52But they understand that you can't be on the screen 24-7.
02:56You know, something I would say to them is, hey, life outside.
03:00You understand?
03:01Look up from the screen if we in the car.
03:03Look up from the screen.
03:04Which part of Trinidad we're in right now?
03:06Do you know where you live?
03:08You know?
03:09So part of that boy's entered on, Sucre, you know, you can give, when you hear conversations like that, you know, you're younger.
03:19You're the youngest man, yeah.
03:19And so when you look and you hear, you know, sometimes I may hear things that my grandparents will tell me or my parents will tell me and they'll be like, ah, okay, that's interesting.
03:29And that's because I've sort of bridged the gap between what they can explain.
03:34You know, I could still understand that before, you know, when phone was rotary and before video and, you know, VHS and beta things you probably, you know, things that you might look back now and be...
03:43They're looking at you like, what?
03:46What was that?
03:46Correct.
03:47You know?
03:47And then you enter the age of technology.
03:50Yes.
03:50Into the age and, oop, God spare life, I'll still be around for AI and what that brings.
03:55So it's easier for me when I'm hearing those conversations.
03:58It's exciting.
04:00It makes me feel good to hear those stories and it's information.
04:04But for someone like yourself, in this Gen Z, even going into the Gen Alphas, is it in a way kind of like annoying?
04:13Like, oh, God, well, we didn't, you know what I mean?
04:15That is old people thing.
04:17This is the way things are now.
04:19And it's just the way it is.
04:21The school system, everything is almost archaic.
04:23Is that...
04:24Personally, what I think is that with time, new knowledge will always resurface.
04:30Or at least knowledge will be more, will be dispersed a bit more in terms of more and more people will have access to it as time continues.
04:39Because it will come a certain point where at least just one person will send it to the next person.
04:45And then the next person and then the next person.
04:47And then more minds will be open towards the information that will be shared.
04:51So all of that...
04:52But do you care?
04:53What I'm saying is your generation care about what an older generation might talk about.
05:00Like, what got us here?
05:01Is it that history is history...
05:03When you hear stories, like people say, you know, well, I remember when X-Men, I remember when it had CDs.
05:08I remember, I'll give you an example.
05:11I asked my assistant recently, right?
05:14I say, you just watch the speed of the internet, like, you know, see how fast the internet is.
05:19And she was like, no.
05:21And I laughed and said, back in the day, checking the speed was a thing, you know.
05:25Correct.
05:26Right?
05:26But now, like, sometime I look at internet plans and you're getting 300 megabits and 400 megabits.
05:32I remember thinking that wasn't even a concept to us.
05:36But now internet's so fast that whether you take any plan, it kind of don't make a difference.
05:42Right?
05:42So she was telling me, should we even check?
05:44No, we wouldn't check.
05:45I was explaining to my sons, you know, sometimes it's a long time you want to watch a video.
05:48You pay it to download and go and sweat football.
05:51If you need five minutes, you come back, it's still an hour and a half.
05:55Yeah.
05:56They looked at me like I was mad.
05:58They said, that's not possible.
06:00They couldn't conceptualize that.
06:02You understand?
06:03And the other thing, you know, when we talk about, it's a serious side,
06:09but yet the more serious, if that's a word, cited is one, are we losing, in many ways, the values?
06:21So is that being brought across?
06:23So we talk a lot about habits.
06:26We talk a lot about chores.
06:28We speak about manners.
06:30There's someone coming and shaking someone's hand, looking in their eye and saying,
06:34hi, I'm Robert Dumas.
06:36You know, we're persons, are they doing that anymore?
06:38Are people really saying good morning?
06:41And so we, you know, a lot of times we talk about great men and weak men.
06:46You know, great men create weak men because, of course, they don't want you to do,
06:51have to do what they have done.
06:52And by doing that, what's happening is they're not bringing across the values into the next generation.
06:58And therefore, it's being lost, I think.
07:03Part of it is social media.
07:05Part of it is the general pace at which we move, the stresses of everything,
07:09the hours in traffic to get to work, the everything.
07:12And as a parent, especially for me as a father, you have to be intentional about these things.
07:17Like I say to my boys all the time, I reason better men than me.
07:21We're not here to be fools out here.
07:26You're going to learn.
07:27Shake somebody's hand, look at them in the eye, speak clearly, try to communicate.
07:32These are things that I say to my sons every day.
07:35And it's like pounding it into their heads because they grew up in a different time,
07:38as we've been discussing.
07:41Right?
07:41And at the same time, I can't parent them the same way that I was parented.
07:48That's true.
07:49But we talk here, like, again, I'm going to bring Sucre.
07:52You're here as the youngest of us, right?
07:54How old are you, Sucre?
07:55I'm 24.
07:56Right.
07:56So you fall into that, right?
07:58Correct.
07:59At 24 years old, I was in Leeds studying in England, right?
08:03So I remember what 24 was like then.
08:05This was just 1999 or something, right?
08:081999, so, you know, Champions League, Manchester United won the treble that year.
08:15You know, Dwight York was playing.
08:16They played Bayern Munich.
08:17Yeah.
08:18Dwight York was played at that point.
08:19You're talking history.
08:20History, yeah.
08:21This is what I'm saying.
08:23No, but you know who Dwight York is.
08:24He coaches the national, right?
08:25So this is when he was playing for Manchester United, right?
08:29So that's when I was 24.
08:31And also Shakhtar Hyslop played in the league during that period as well, as well as Kenwin
08:37Jones, et cetera.
08:38We're not the mode football here.
08:39I can't help it.
08:40But when you, and so I'm going to keep coming to you to ask about that thought process,
08:46because as much as you're saying you want them to be better than yourself, which is natural
08:53for a parent, I always ask myself, so am I going to, I'm going to teach my son to shake
08:59hands and look at somebody in their eye, but is it all relative to the time that we
09:05are at now?
09:06Because if in the environment they're going to be brought up, he stretches his hand out
09:10to shake.
09:11They might look at him as awkward or a nerd or what going on here?
09:14Because that's not.
09:17I'm sorry to cut.
09:18I'm glad you said because that's literally what happens.
09:20So the other day we had parents day in my son's secondary school, I wouldn't call it
09:24school, is exactly that scenario.
09:27And you look at the young men, it's all boys, you look at the young men engage with each
09:32other and there's a lot of those awkward pauses, right?
09:37But then you see them engage when he celebrated his 14th birthday in December.
09:42So we had a few of them, we went to this place for them to play.
09:46It was a different thing because in that environment everybody thrived, but now we're in the school
09:51environment or even to have a conversation like this.
09:54It was awkward.
09:56You were in our party a long time, Marlon.
09:58And well, I know your auntie will know this for sure.
10:00He older than me, right?
10:01So.
10:03Go ahead, go ahead.
10:04But you end up, you're a party, Sucre.
10:06I would learn, I learned to Latin dance, right?
10:10And that was a big thing, salsa, merengue, because you're waiting for that particular
10:14song to play or that particular old school alternative rock to be able to play to then
10:19dance.
10:20And it was impressive.
10:21Or you rent a tile, as some people would say.
10:24Now, you're not, you're not, and I hate the song older because I say nowadays and it
10:29reminds me of how my parents would song back then.
10:31They used to say the same thing.
10:33How that has changed where it's a, is a walk up or, or, or wine and a joke and things
10:41that is a different, the, the interaction is different to, um, for, for, for young
10:47persons.
10:48And, and, and, and so even if we come back to yes, things boys, then and now technology
10:55is there to make life better, to improve life.
10:59Right.
10:59So we, we, we get that.
11:00We're not saying technology is a bad thing, but it's, and also the people that create
11:06it in Silicon Valley, you hear that they don't, they themselves don't let their children use
11:10iPads and all these other gadgets because they're trying to keep them out of the matrix,
11:15so to speak, not plugged in to be able to create more and more and more, not get caught up.
11:19But these devices and the apps and all these things on the devices are created to do just
11:25that, it's to get you to, what, to look at it and Instagram and all these things that
11:30is created to draw you in.
11:33And so how that impacts social interactions.
11:38Well, what, what, what I, what I notice is that if, and Sukriya and both Mara, you could
11:44see if you notice this too, is that before when there were less or no devices, you had
11:52to talk.
11:53You had to.
11:54You couldn't just sit down in a room and nobody speak it.
11:55You had to talk.
11:56Right.
11:57So, therefore, you, you're forced, quote unquote, to learn social skills.
12:02You learn how to talk to a stranger.
12:04I mean, it's true that you're living in.
12:05Talking to a stranger is part of the culture, even if you never see that person again.
12:10Yeah.
12:10Right.
12:11But now, the, quote unquote, awkward silence would now be, you just pick up your phone,
12:17you pick up your phone, everybody on their phone, we could be like this, 5, 10, 15
12:21an hour, that's, that's, you know, now.
12:24So, it, so again, we say technology is there to improve, but I will tell you, Sukriya, this
12:31is funny, right?
12:32So, before Movie Town, it was Spectacular Forum.
12:35Right.
12:35This is, so this is to tell you how long ago it was.
12:38Yeah, it was.
12:38And when, and when you go into a club or a party, you're learning how to scrape bottle.
12:44You know what scraping a bottle is?
12:46People will have a pile, a bottle, they will have their bottles, and you learn on the concrete
12:52how to scrape it, to basically break it, to have jagged edges.
12:56Or fisticuffs, you know, you're getting to a fight.
12:59You know, this thing about, you know, people riding back for you and retaliation is different
13:03now because now it's gone.
13:04Yeah, yeah, definitely.
13:05So, you might get a stab, you might get cuffed down, but, but you're fought and, and, and,
13:10and not to more the bottle aspect of it, but it's more of a manly thing to say fight.
13:14Now is, there's no fisticuffs per se.
13:17It's, and even if they, if, even if they are fights like that, you know, somebody right,
13:22going back for a firearm.
13:24So, the mentality is also different as the, as back then and how it is now in the terms
13:33of engagement and what it really means to be a man.
13:36Are you really manning up by going and getting a gun to shoot somebody?
13:40Well, you see, from, maybe from our older generation, we might say no, because, you know,
13:45a gun is almost like, you know, a passive thing.
13:48You're far away and you're shooting.
13:50A man's supposed to, you come close to the injury and you come and fight.
13:53But that may be from our perspective, you know, um, from a, from a youth perspective,
13:58because it was a brief conversation, but I remember a youth telling me, me going through
14:04all that, right?
14:05That's too much, right?
14:06The simpler thing is, is just to shoot somebody.
14:09Why would I fight?
14:11Why would I go through, go through all of that?
14:12And I mean, if we are going from a practical standpoint, right, I understand where they're
14:17coming from, even if I might not agree.
14:20It's really different and it also speaks to our level of aggression.
14:24And the, the sense of power or what they get a sense of power from now, the finality
14:30of that, shooting somebody and that is it.
14:32You don't have to worry about that person again.
14:34It, it, it, it, it, it speaks to difference.
14:36But I also wanted to come back to, to, in terms of the parenting is different, right?
14:41Whether or not the father or male figure is in the household is critical, but it's also,
14:47it's also different now.
14:48And you can also be in the household, but not in the household.
14:52You know what I mean?
14:53You're there, but yeah, you're not active.
14:54You understand your job or whatever is stressing you out so much that you don't have the emotional
15:00capacity to treat with each other and around you.
15:03And so they also learn that distance from that as much as the social media.
15:07So I hear you there, Marlon.
15:09And again, one of the things that, that I always love, love about the show, you don't recognize
15:15that you love it at the time because the introspection could sometimes hurt.
15:18And that's another thing that I may recognize that my, my life, whether it be, you know,
15:27head of production at CNCCG, whether it be chairman of the Cancer Society or any of the other
15:31things, there's always something that's activity that when I go home, I ask myself now, after
15:38you've just said that, is it that my son, as much as I try to interact, that am I there
15:44as much as that he may require to mold him in a particular way, or is it just a matter
15:49of distance like, hey, dad's on the phone, dad's on his laptop, dad needs to zone up
15:53because sometimes you really, when you reach back to, quote unquote, your castle, that moment
15:58of peace, like, okay, I don't have to, I don't have to be one of those hats right now.
16:03I can just be, but in just, in saying, I can just be, you now have your greater responsibility,
16:11which is to the person you brought into this world, to your partner who you signed up for
16:17to say, hey, you know what, we're going to walk this walk together.
16:21We're going to be a witness to each other's lives.
16:23And that is where I'm, I'm thinking I might be showing up less than, than I should be.
16:30The thing that really matters, the person that's going to be there to put the floor on my coffin.
16:35No, that's a serious thing.
16:36And I, I could speak to it in terms of, so I mold myself personally to be the opposite
16:41of my father in terms of he, he wasn't there.
16:44So I try to make sure that I'm there.
16:46And even when you think you're doing a good job, right?
16:49Um, I spent six years at the children's authority and during that time, that job and the, you
16:54know, the issues in, in country take, take a lot out of you.
16:57And then my sons themselves said it, you know, daddy, sometimes you're home, but you're
17:03in a home.
17:03Sometimes they want to be in, sometimes they would come and just be in the room.
17:07I only phone somewhere with the police on some case and I'm not really giving them the, the
17:12attention.
17:12And having, having left that job, um, I, I really, really try to make that effort even
17:17more now to make sure when they, when they come and say daddy, what are you going on?
17:21That I'm there.
17:22Or I could ask them how school was or checking on his school work.
17:25Although the school work hard, so I don't, my, so it's a serious thing, you know, I want,
17:31I certainly want us to go to, to, to, to draw from that experience, hear a bit more about
17:37children, children's authority and that experience of the youth from a national perspective.
17:41And even, you know, in terms of a class perspective, and I definitely want to bring Sucre in more
17:46because we want to find out, I could tell you about boys then, but boys now is what we
17:50really trying to figure out.
17:52So we definitely, um, we definitely come back with that.
17:56We take a short break.
17:57It's manhood.
17:57Blessings, blessings.
18:08This is Sucre and you're watching manhood boys then to boys now.
18:14Yeah, man.
18:15So what I definitely think boys need now is our listening ear more understanding because
18:22I feel like as time continues to go and time continues to progress, as I say, more information,
18:30people have more access to it.
18:31So people's minds are a bit more open, same way.
18:34So that's why you might think people might get quote unquote smarter because some, somebody,
18:39um, the other people might find we know, we feel like we know too much.
18:43It's just a matter of the information might either be a bit more or even a perceived in
18:48a different way, because as time goes, our way of thinking would change.
18:53So I think the main thing is that we just want people to understand us, not necessarily
18:58that we're trying to fight y'all.
18:59It's just that y'all are, y'all learn to do something a certain way, but we also see
19:06something, that same thing could be done in a different way.
19:08And sometimes y'all can be a bit dismissive to what we might have to think, as opposed
19:14to actually just hearing what we say and maybe offering the guidance in that type of
19:18way.
19:19So sometimes that would cause us to go to a different avenue and a completely different
19:25avenue that might not necessarily be the food.
19:27So you're feeling disrespected in that way.
19:28We're not, we're not showing the respect.
19:30So you're feeling disrespected because we're not seeing Aitai and therefore as a result
19:35you have, you feel you have to know, well, you're not seeing it this way.
19:37So now I'm retaliating or behaving in a particular way, either to get you to see it this way
19:43or I don't care anymore what you think.
19:46Is that?
19:46Not necessarily.
19:47I don't care anymore what you think.
19:49It's just a matter of we can't necessarily get into that mold because sometimes it might
19:54not be the most fruitful for the way that we are in that specific generation.
20:00So I guess it's just a matter of trying not to fight our innate selves.
20:06Eventually our truth will be told in whatever way possible.
20:10And as that continues, more and more men will open up or feel connected and relate to that
20:17specific medium.
20:18And then that will just continue to form the next progress.
20:22So is it that you feel that the older persons, because I still consider myself young, the
20:27older persons are not moving with the times, they're not making the adjustments for, because
20:32we have something to connect to back in the day, whereas now is just the now.
20:37You can't expect somebody in the now to understand the past because they're only in the now.
20:41And if you're only in the now, this is the way things are done.
20:46This is the way that we communicate and we understand.
20:49Even the language is slightly changing, you know, from, you know, I used to say my parents
20:54talk about pig Latin and things like that.
20:56That's true.
20:56You know, and different ways of speaking and there's a different lingo now and just like
21:01LOL and all these other things like that that are becoming.
21:05And is it that, Johansson, you could probably chime in here, is it that sometimes our lack of
21:10understanding is not only causing an issue with the younger generation, but it's also
21:16maybe a feeling of us starting to feel lost that this technology, the youth and all that
21:23that we can't keep up.
21:25And it's almost as if it's something that we start to fear, fear of the unknown, fear
21:30of not being able to keep up.
21:32Well, I think it is a fundamental flaw that, and I'll use Trinidad and Tobago because that's
21:41where we grew up and that's where we know most, not to teach us to embrace change.
21:47It's that when I was a child, the older generation want everything to stay the same, right?
21:54So they try to mold me into their world.
21:59They try to mold their world, right?
22:01They born in the 1950s and they want the 1980s to be like the 1950s, right?
22:07And I think when I say it's a fundamental because we all know the only constant is change.
22:13Yeah, correct.
22:14Now, I say we know it, but we don't like it.
22:20We just fight it, right?
22:22And because when you're speaking, I was laughing in mind because I hear myself saying exactly
22:28what you're saying at his age, right?
22:31So why it is, it seems like that is something that continue happening.
22:36And when I was thinking about it, it's really change.
22:39It's really, we don't embrace change.
22:43Well, when you say we, right, the reluctance to that change, it's, you know, growing up,
22:48they would always use the example of liking things in a comfort zone.
22:51So, for example, you put a frog in a Petri dish and then you put a Bunsen burner under
22:56the Petri dish and you start to light it and the water warms up.
22:59The frog will stay in that Petri dish and boil to death rather than jump out because
23:04it's in a comfort zone.
23:05I, this, what is different from millennials to my parents to their parents, like you
23:14said, there's that reluctance to change.
23:15And as you quite rightly said, I think it's Peter Drucker said it, you know, where the
23:20only constant in life is change, right?
23:22Now, even within that, the younger generation now is quite the opposite.
23:27It's almost like a full pivot, the other, the other side of the, you know, a full paradigm
23:32shift where they're not reluctant to change.
23:34They embrace change.
23:36The constant for them is change.
23:39Without that change, it's, it's like, it's stagnant.
23:42And they need that change because of whether it be the way that we have, I keep saying the
23:48word we, you know, my parents and so like, like what we have given them in terms of this
23:56world now, there's no choice, but to be the way they are to survive.
24:01True.
24:01And what was resonating with me as, as the youth speaker was speaking in terms of the
24:07not feeling heard and that applies, we were talking earlier about child protection and
24:11so on.
24:11It applies significantly there as well.
24:13And just in general, it's not that what the older person might be saying is necessarily
24:19wrong.
24:19It's not that they don't understand.
24:21They just want you to hear what they're saying.
24:24Respect.
24:24Basically, you understand, a kind of mutual respect, right?
24:27And the thing about it is as older persons, you have that thing where, but I know what
24:32it's for, you are a child.
24:34You understand?
24:34And this is what it is.
24:36Sometimes they're just rebelling against that, that, that lack of, of, of being heard.
24:40It's not that they even think you're wrong.
24:42It's that at least give me five minutes to see.
24:45To see what time to see.
24:46Yeah.
24:46I also have a mind too.
24:48Yeah.
24:49And just as how you have, you have your way of thinking, we have our ways of thinking
24:54too.
24:54And even self, we would like to learn from you, but we'd just like to have our discussion
24:59rather than orders and instructions.
25:02And once it's orders, the youth rebel against that, which is part of the problem we have
25:07here.
25:08So you say to a child, you must go to school because of this, this, this, and this reason.
25:16School, especially the way that we have our education system, may not be applicable to
25:21that particular child.
25:23Well, there may not be enough pieces for where we have different issues popping up, autism,
25:27whatever, whatever, right?
25:29So the, the child wants to learn in a different way, but he cannot learn in that environment.
25:33She cannot learn in that environment.
25:35So the child rebels and nobody wants to hear, but you're 12 or you're 15.
25:41Nobody wants to hear them.
25:43So it's not that they don't understand or they don't want to do it, but you're not hearing
25:47them.
25:47So we're going against.
25:49Plus what I would add is, and Sucre mentioned it, is that you have so much information now.
25:55Now, back in the day, if I was given an order, I may not have had the information to argue
26:00against it.
26:01So, but now if, if, if I tell you, you have to go up, I could show you reasons why I shouldn't
26:07go up and logical reasons.
26:09So even if, even if I hear what you're saying and understand, all these other things exist.
26:14So it's kind of hard just to follow blindly, but you don't have all this information.
26:20Right in your hand, your phone has, gives you access to literally the entire world.
26:25Through the internet, as opposed to think about it, when we were younger, you had to find
26:30the encyclopedia, you had to find the national library.
26:34No, my sons do so.
26:35On the phone right there.
26:36Yeah.
26:37Google.
26:37Yeah.
26:38Google, what is this?
26:38Siri, what is this?
26:39And they get instant answers, especially more now as, as the AI technology coming in.
26:44Right.
26:45I had to wait till tomorrow to see if the library opened, to find, to hope I find the book.
26:50Or hope you get the newest edition of the encyclopedia.
26:53Yeah.
26:53It might be outdated.
26:54You understand?
26:54And even when, okay, the internet came in.
26:57All the real old boy.
26:57Yeah.
26:58And you, but even when the internet came in, we were talking earlier about, about how long
27:03it took for something to download.
27:05You know, we know about dial tone and waiting however long to get the information is seconds.
27:09I could go, I could go one higher than you before dial tone, ICQ.
27:13You see, I didn't know that.
27:14Yeah.
27:15Yeah.
27:15The little flower, right?
27:16Or that thing.
27:17Yeah.
27:17Yeah.
27:18You had to type.
27:18It was a type in a whole code and hope.
27:20I always remember a friend of mine, Rich, I was studying in Germany at the time and sitting
27:24on by the computer and these people clearly trying to get the computer and speaking, but
27:28I was in verse, you know, I didn't understand, I couldn't communicate in German as yet.
27:33And all I was like, no, I have to wait for this thing to pop up to see the, to, to, to,
27:36to, to, to, to, to be able to say, hey, you know, just to feel connected.
27:40Yeah.
27:41And where we come now, I mean, now you walk wrong on our phone and everything is there.
27:45It's FaceTime.
27:46It's FaceTime.
27:47Yeah.
27:47You know, WhatsApp, you know, AI.
27:49Yeah.
27:50All of these things where you don't even, you know, in two minutes I could write a song.
27:53And that's the thing about technology is there to continue to make things easier or make
27:59a task easier.
28:01For example, you might just think that the computers, the cameras here is technology, but
28:05at a certain point in time, spoon was technology.
28:08Yeah.
28:09A fork is technology.
28:11It made it easier.
28:12So in that context, why must I only listen to your opinion as the older person as to the
28:18thing that I must do?
28:19There are so many other parts and this may be the part I want to choose.
28:24Why we can't merge your idea with my idea?
28:25And that's exactly what we would be open towards, but it's really a matter of the two generations
28:31coming together, listening to each other.
28:34Because one of the things I like to live by is comprehension, compromise.
28:43So communication, comprehension, compromise.
28:45We communicate with each other.
28:47We express the ideas.
28:49Comprehension.
28:49We listen to understand rather than listening to answer.
28:52And then we compromise, not necessarily in the strictest form, but in terms of commenter,
28:58some sort of agreement on how we could move together healthily.
29:01And I want you to take us to the break with that because I want to come back with something
29:06just about that.
29:07So that's your camera.
29:08Take us to the break.
29:10Once again, this is Sucre.
29:12You're watching Manhood.
29:13Boys then versus boys to know.
29:22And really important is that level of communication between me and my 40s, which is my sons and
29:38their teens, my budging over here in his 20s.
29:41How we bridge that gap to ensure that we could move forward with ideas from each generation
29:47as opposed to pushing ourselves on the youth in a way that they would rebel against.
29:53You know?
29:54And we can continue touching on that because when we give those orders or even whether it
30:03is the child protection system, the education system, the court system, we give those hard
30:09and fast rules.
30:10As parents, we give these hard and fast rules that we may or may not be following ourselves.
30:15But as we were talking about before, the youth have access to all this other information
30:19that is oftentimes very logical and also plausible.
30:24Right?
30:25Why would they need to follow you if, again, they don't feel heard?
30:30Exactly.
30:30So one of the things, as you mentioned that, again, every time I hear it, I introspect.
30:35You know, my son, who will be eight next month, you know, I have this thing that I am very
30:42affectionate with him because I always think that, you know, I want you to hug and I will
30:46kiss my son and vice versa.
30:48And he said, but dad, I don't want to hug anyone.
30:51Right?
30:51And I said, and I told him, I said, that's fine because I don't want to force you into a
30:55position of hugging someone or being affectionate with someone if that's not how you feel.
30:59He's an affectionate child, but in his own way.
31:02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:02But I did tell him, with your parents, we want, you know, we want to share that affection.
31:06He's fine with that.
31:07And that imposing of someone, like you said, with social media and them seeing so many other
31:13things, they're becoming their own man or their own woman, even though they're children.
31:19So they're becoming their own person.
31:20Let's just put it that way.
31:21And Sucre, you and I, we were speaking on, you know, at the break that the, when you remove
31:28that, even at that age of, of, of people can feel embarrassed.
31:32They can feel on, as you, as you mentioned, you know, they're not seen, they're not heard.
31:37And then they feel disrespected.
31:39And as a child, they might not know how to cope with that or express that.
31:43And then the end result of that, that then builds, you know, like, like, like, like a
31:48virus, you know, it builds and, and it festers, it then forms into whether they retaliate to
31:54go down a road of drugs, whether they retaliate to bullying in school, because I can't, I can't
32:01answer back my father or my, or my mother, but I could go to school and beat the shit out of
32:06this, this, and you probably don't even know where the rage is coming from.
32:09Exactly. And that's the thing where they say charity begins at home.
32:17I don't think it's just charity alone. I think it's a lot of things because your parents are
32:22the ones who teach you before the teachers in school. So you might, yes, you might learn
32:26certain academic things, this, that, the other, but in terms of the values that you, that are
32:32molded into your personality, all of which come from your parents, whether it be the things
32:38that they directly teach you or some of the subconscious things that they do or don't
32:43do. Yeah. Because so you might have a parent, they might tell you, don't drink alcohol, this
32:49is not good for you, this, that, this, that, the other, but they're doing the same thing
32:53too. They might tell you something, but the behavior is completely different.
32:57How do you, I'm coming in at that point, because how do you respond to trauma? How do you
33:02respond to grief? All those things have much more to do with your actions and what you
33:08don't say, as opposed to what you're telling them to do. Right. And both my, my younger son
33:13is nine. My older son is 14. And literally just this week, you know, they, I lost my mom
33:19last year. They're a grandmom. My son had to write a poem for school. Right. The boy make
33:24me cry. Big man thing, I'm saying it. Right. The boy make me cry. The boy make me cry because
33:30he had to write the poem for school and he chose, you had to choose your own theme and
33:34everything. He chose grief. Right. Thinking about his grandmom. And then he remembered
33:42to put in that poem how I came to talk to him and to talk to him based on our faith that,
33:48you know, we believe we'll see her again and everything like that. And that made it into
33:51the poem. And the part that really had me off is that he used the word, his father came
33:57into the room to lighten up his mood. And then in the next time he said, the light said,
34:02no, you're talking about me, but it mash me up. It mash me right up. Me lying to, yeah.
34:07Wow. You understand? Tears instant I had to go and wash my face because I can't even remember
34:14the conversation because I ain't grief too at the time. You understand? I can't remember
34:19the conversation. So now it comes back in a flood in this format where he might not have
34:26said it otherwise. Right? So what you don't see as the older person to a younger person,
34:33how you act with other people they're watching. You understand?
34:38Because sponge is absorbing.
34:39You see, action is very important because congruence, right? Congruence is the continuity
34:48of something. Right? So if you say something, I hear what you're saying, but I have to see
34:55you do it also. It do have to be in the exact form. If I say, say good morning to everybody,
35:00it do have to be that exact thing. But seeing you do respect. Right? But what happens is a lot
35:08of time. I would say older generation. Older meaning my parent generation more than even
35:13my generation is that they would say things and give you orders.
35:19Do as I say, but don't do as I do. Yeah, it was orders.
35:21What is good for the goose is not good for the gander.
35:23Correct. And that is something I realized that even at a cognitive level, because when children
35:30are at an early age, there's something active. It's in humans in general, but especially in
35:36children of a young age called mirror neurons. Right? And that's how mirror neurons in your
35:41brain, that's how children learn to look, to walk, to pick up mannerisms. You notice that children
35:47are the mannerisms of the parents. So if you're telling me something, and I understand it cognitively,
35:53I understand what you're saying, you know, but when I'm looking at you, even at a stage where I may not
35:58have all the language to express it, but what I'm seeing is incongruent. Right? With what you tell
36:06me, what happens is mistrust or distrust. Yeah. And once, and sometimes that happens at an unconscious
36:13level. Yeah.
36:14So once your child distrusts you. That's it. That's it then.
36:18Because you're telling me like, you know, the old people will tell you in a household,
36:22they'll say, well, this is my house. I could do what I want. But a child is like, but I don't
36:27understand. You are the person, whether innately, as you said, whether, you know, learned, whether
36:32you just know that this is your father, even in your, amongst your peers in your community,
36:36even on social media, you realize your father and your mother, the people to mold you and
36:40the, and the love and so on that you have for them. So when you do that now, you think
36:44it to yourself, but I'm supposed to be learning from you. But yet still, I'm now at that part
36:49where I will, you know, as a child, if you're, if you're smoking, or if you're drinking, or
36:58if you're doing certain things, or if you, even if you're swearing, there's a period when
37:03you, when you get to a certain age that you understand that, okay, my dad or my, this person
37:08may smoke, but I am not to smoke because I'm not of age as yet. Apart from the fact
37:12that it's bad for you, right? And you shouldn't smoke, right? I'm drinking, et cetera, or even
37:16swearing. But yet at that point, when you're not at that cognitive level as yet to be able
37:22to make that, that, that discernment, you're just seeing that, wait, but he's telling me
37:28don't do something, but you're doing it. And you're the person I'm supposed to learn
37:31from. So why are you doing it? And the, and the disconnect there is where that mistrust
37:35then comes in because I don't, I don't understand it, do as I say, but don't do as I do.
37:41The other thing, when you're doing it. The other thing with that mistrust is, I mentioned
37:45trauma. If something happens to a child and he tries to come to you or she tries to come
37:50to you to explain what it is, no, no, no, I don't have time for that now.
37:54Dismissive. You see that? I can't come to you again. You understand? Maybe so. And that's
38:00part of the problem with respect to just going back to child protection issues in this country.
38:04That is part of the reason why now I'm holding something in for four or five years. Something
38:09may have happened when I was 10 and you're wondering why I'm acting out now that I'm
38:1315. Because I tried to tell you when I was 10 and you didn't listen. So why would you
38:17listen now? And it's a, it's a, it's a real thing. That's the other tragic side to, to, to what
38:23my brother was saying here. So in children's authority, I know, you know, one of the things
38:27that, you know, I want to get before we, before we wrap is children's authority and
38:31what you've seen in youth, in men, in boys, um, even in the homes then and now, what, what
38:38are some of the big changes that you've seen? Are you surprised by the levels of crime and
38:43what's happened and the fabric, the, the, the, the, the manners and the fabric of this
38:47society being broken?
38:48No, I'm, I'm, I'm not surprised, unfortunately. And so apart from the, the six years that I,
38:54that I spent at the, the terms authority and really shout out to them, people, they are
38:58doing a lot of 24 seven hard work. But even, even before I went there and through my time
39:04there and even now, things have changed in the sense of that level of manners that we
39:10were talking about, that level of, you know, what we would consider respect, it's getting
39:15less and less. When you look at the varying levels of crime and violence, you know, even
39:21within criminality, there was a particular level of order. There were certain things
39:24they wouldn't do that they do now. Right. But also when you're talking about trauma in
39:30terms of what, what I just said, where the victim doesn't feel like anybody ever hears
39:35him or her. And so to do that, to act out, I become the perpetrator and now will I want
39:41to be in my business. Right. It's, it's, it's very scary. And so I can literally trace
39:47from when I was in my twenties, which would be like 2010. Right. So now in terms of predicting
39:57a degradation of the society, you know, at the time we were 200, 300 murders and literally
40:02understanding, Hey, in 10 years, we could be 500, 600 murders. If we do see certain things
40:09recorded, recorded. Right. Yeah. And, and, and having that experience of saying to, saying
40:15to power, I didn't want to say the different ministries, but saying to power, this will
40:19be our fate in 10 years, 12 years. No, no, no. You're talking about a foreign country.
40:24No, this is what I'm seeing in the schools. Right. The boys are more violent. The girls are
40:30more violent. Everybody sexually active. Right. In, in particular area. In fact, everywhere,
40:36not particular areas. And if we don't address this, right, now we have phones in the school,
40:41remember talking 2010. Right. We will have significant problems. And now we're here.
40:48500, 600 murders becoming normal for us.
40:51So let me ask you something, Marlon. Sucre, you might want to chime in here.
40:55When you mentioned about being seen, you know, that people, that the children want, you know,
40:59boys or men and people, the younger generation, that's usually the younger generation.
41:05To be seen, is it, is it that, okay, well, you didn't see me then, now if I, now that I'm doing
41:13this, it's, it's, it's, it's a form of whether conscious or subconscious, a form of attention and
41:18acknowledgement. Now I'm doing this, now as a bad man, and now as a this, or now a woman doing,
41:23behaving in this particular way, even if it's a rebellion to the parents, now that I'm pregnant,
41:28or now all these things are happening, you're now seeing me, I'm now getting some form of attention.
41:34I'm not letting you see it first.
41:36You didn't see me then, you will see me now, whether I'd be healthy or unhealthy, because
41:43a lot of the times these things happen at a certain age where you start to form certain
41:47habits that last a lifetime. So you just continue down that road until it reaches
41:54to a point where it's a norm for you, even though you may not necessarily learn, you didn't necessarily
42:00learn that way in the past, but because of those circumstances, you develop your own habits,
42:08and you develop your own new character. Your own survival guide. Basically.
42:13So whether we're rebelling, whether it is criminal activity, whether we're on TikTok or Instagram now,
42:19right, not Facebook, I'll learn Facebook for all people, right, wherever it is.
42:24Even Instagram now tells us you're a certain age, right?
42:26Yeah, right. So, yeah, it's not like it was then for us, or those before us, it's different now.
42:34You understand? And as we were saying earlier, if we don't find that way to bridge the gap,
42:40to listen to each other, we will continue to have issues, we will continue to have young men out there.
42:46One thing we didn't touch on, look at how many young men, a 19-year-old, just weekend,
42:52killed themselves, right? We're continuing to see it. And young men in particular, this is from my
42:59perspective, young men in particular don't feel or see that they have those outlets for somebody to
43:05talk to or to be able to cope with whatever life stress is coming at them. So we're killing ourselves.
43:12You see, we're not going, you know.
43:14I'm glad to raise that point because if then till now is definitely a rising suicide.
43:22Yeah, by far.
43:23And rising how many suicides and then lowering of the ages, the age that do it. And from my perspective,
43:31I think part of the reason why is, one, I have the younger generation, and Asuka, you could tell
43:39me if I say anything incorrect, they have a lot to say, maybe even more to say than I had at my age,
43:47but have less avenues. So I have more to say, but less avenues. So it's almost like a bottleneck of
43:54things now. So in human behavior, it's thought, feeling, action.
43:57Less or more avenues. Because I would think with social media, it's when there's more avenues to
44:01express yourself.
44:02But less avenues that they want.
44:03Yeah, because social media is not quality time. Talking to your father, talking to your uncle,
44:10could never compare to putting up a post. A post might give you 50%
44:18release, but talking to the person you really want to talk to is what you want. And if human
44:24behavior, thought, feeling, action. Thought is the feeling. The feeling is the energy to produce
44:28the action. But if I have no action and nobody, so then you just have thought, feeling, thought,
44:33feeling. So I sit down there, I have all these thoughts, I have all these feelings, and it's
44:36building up and it's building up and it's building up and it's building up.
44:38Until it bursts.
44:39Until it bursts.
44:41So the message there that I'm taking of the boys then and now is, likes are not love.
44:48No.
44:50Likes is not love.
44:51Likes is not love, I like that.
44:52And we need, you know, as we come, you're like that.
44:57I love that.
44:57Yeah, for sure.
44:58The response that, as we talk about human, forget men or forget women, we talk about humans,
45:06is to be loved and to know that you are enough. And that's at the crux, that's at the base of
45:12humanity. So if we could just quickly, quickly, as in, you know, we're kind of out of time here,
45:19to kind of give some closing, because I really want to hear about Sucre, bottom line, he's an artist,
45:25he has a song out, I want to hear a little bit about the song, and maybe give us a verse or something
45:31to take us out.
45:32To take us out, yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:33All right, so quickly, my takeaway from this is, then till now, I think then, it had a lot more quality,
45:44right? Not as much quantity. But now, it have all the quantity, but a lot less quality. And what we
45:52could do is bring back in some of the quality interactions, listening. That is my thing. Because
45:58the youths, listen, the youths are real bright, and have plenty of things that I can learn from
46:03and I've seen anybody, if older generation, listen to the youth. And for the youth, listen to the old.
46:10If somebody don't want to listen to you, find somebody that will listen to you, instead of
46:14bottling it all in. So quality over quantity.
46:17Yeah, I really want to emphasize on that. For us as men, especially older men, right? Whether we have sons,
46:25nephews, right? Fellas in the community. You make sure to be the quality for them. Be the person that
46:32they can speak to. Try to give some level of advice based on your experience. Also listen to what they
46:37have to say. Because, you know, you might learn something, right? Be that man in somebody's life.
46:43Sucre, you know, I know you have a song out. Give us your closing thoughts with regards to that message,
46:52and if you could lead us out with a verse. Yeah, no problem. So, from this discussion,
46:58knowledge is a matter of the old coming with the new to make something new. Newer, I should say.
47:06You know, so the older heads, younger heads come together. Let's move forward together in the
47:14future, so that we could all live healthily, fruitfully with each other. That's definitely
47:21what I take away from this, man. Yeah. That's your karma there, manhood.
47:26Give me something.
47:28Give me something. Oh gosh.
47:30Tell them when I fart in, I see greatest. Yeah, I show about that. And when I drink in, I see greatest.
47:43Yeah, I show about that. Saying this life, one thing I love is having fun and jamming down.
47:52Manhood does bring the life for me, oh Lord. It's gal and rum, we go never done.
48:09My name is Elias. The title of this track is Promise, and this is Manhood Spotlight.
48:22Go Out.
48:27I have to trust me.
48:39All right.
48:39Some man a bet pa meself on the garden out the road where me walk
48:45Focus pa me wealth, no I said the time pa ni clock ha fi tick out garden
48:50Yeah my daughter fi eat, so me can't tie it up on the block
48:55Some man a huntin fi the green see the flame that a burn on me
48:59This a promise to meself, a promise to me god
49:02Promise to me girl when me up down on me yard
49:04Promise to me lick a youth ha fi be a good father
49:07Live long me na go down na no my hug, some man a go fail
49:12Some man a go fail
49:17Some man a go fail
49:20Yo, me na really pose as no gangsta, na really pose like my bad
49:25But same way a shark teeth, lego, lego, lego
49:28If you touch my, man a stand pa me strength
49:31Some man never beg a forward, but me never raise a coward
49:36If you stand firm in the faith, so me them care over power
49:40So we get up and I get it
49:42By any means, care study enemies
49:44Now trust them when them said them I'm a friend fi real
49:46Cause them a, yo them wa se me na se me tree wa se me feel
49:50Disappointment ya go and receive
49:52When me touch the road, ya me na go fall
49:54Now the world it hold, judge a protect me soul
49:57Let the truth be told, I'm a na king fi sure
49:59Now the world fi know, this a promise to meself
50:03Promise to me girl when me up down on me yard
50:06Promise to me lick a youth ha fi be a good father
50:09Live long me naga dam na no mark, so me na go fail
50:13So me na go fail
50:15Now a so me na go fail
50:17So me na go fail
50:19Now a so me na go fail
50:21Now a so me na go fail
50:23Yo, some man a bet pa meself
50:26Funny God know the road when me walk
50:29Focus pa me wealth
50:31Now a se de time pa'n the clock a fi take o' God
50:35Let me daughter fi eat, can't idle pa'n the block
50:39Manhood, brought you in part by
50:42Reboot, Super Farm and Solomon's Bespoke