Fawn Weaver is the founder and CEO of Uncle Nearest, the fastest-growing American whiskey brand, now valued at over $1 billion. In this interview with ForbesWomen editor Maggie McGrath, Weaver shares her extraordinary journey—from leaving home at 15 to disrupting a centuries-old industry. She opens up about the early challenges of launching a whiskey company as a Black woman, her strategic approach to raising capital, and why she refuses to take venture funding.
Weaver also reveals her bold plan to build a spirits conglomerate—one that includes vodka and cognac brands—while staying true to her mission. She talks about tariffs, shifting consumer habits, and the importance of legacy. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a seasoned investor, Weaver’s vision, grit, and strategy offer a masterclass in building something that lasts.
00:00 – Intro: Meet Fawn Weaver of Uncle Nearest
00:27 – From Homeless Shelters to CEO
01:40 – How Adversity Shaped Her Leadership
03:33 – The Untold Story Behind Uncle Nearest
05:27 – How Jack Daniel Honored Nearest Green
08:13 – Reviving a Legacy Whiskey Recipe
10:33 – Building a Billion-Dollar Brand
11:55 – Breaking Through the Distribution Barrier
13:53 – How Her Bestseller Helps the Business
16:40 – Race, Gender & the Spirits Industry
19:16 – Meet the Master Blender: Victoria Butler
22:28 – Beyond Whiskey: Building a Spirits Conglomerate
25:38 – Why She Bought a Vodka and Cognac Brand
27:52 – A House of Brands, Not a Single Label
29:04 – Her Unique Investor Philosophy
31:37 – How She Prepared for Tariffs
34:48 – Planning Two Years Ahead for Economic Shocks
38:45 – Her Take on the “Drinking Less” Trend
41:54 – Why She’ll Never Sell the Company
42:50 – Lessons from the Harvard Case Study
45:56 – The First Investor Who Took a Chance
48:18 – “You Only Need One” Investor Mindset
49:14 – What’s Next: Vodka and Cognac Launches
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Weaver also reveals her bold plan to build a spirits conglomerate—one that includes vodka and cognac brands—while staying true to her mission. She talks about tariffs, shifting consumer habits, and the importance of legacy. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a seasoned investor, Weaver’s vision, grit, and strategy offer a masterclass in building something that lasts.
00:00 – Intro: Meet Fawn Weaver of Uncle Nearest
00:27 – From Homeless Shelters to CEO
01:40 – How Adversity Shaped Her Leadership
03:33 – The Untold Story Behind Uncle Nearest
05:27 – How Jack Daniel Honored Nearest Green
08:13 – Reviving a Legacy Whiskey Recipe
10:33 – Building a Billion-Dollar Brand
11:55 – Breaking Through the Distribution Barrier
13:53 – How Her Bestseller Helps the Business
16:40 – Race, Gender & the Spirits Industry
19:16 – Meet the Master Blender: Victoria Butler
22:28 – Beyond Whiskey: Building a Spirits Conglomerate
25:38 – Why She Bought a Vodka and Cognac Brand
27:52 – A House of Brands, Not a Single Label
29:04 – Her Unique Investor Philosophy
31:37 – How She Prepared for Tariffs
34:48 – Planning Two Years Ahead for Economic Shocks
38:45 – Her Take on the “Drinking Less” Trend
41:54 – Why She’ll Never Sell the Company
42:50 – Lessons from the Harvard Case Study
45:56 – The First Investor Who Took a Chance
48:18 – “You Only Need One” Investor Mindset
49:14 – What’s Next: Vodka and Cognac Launches
Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
Stay Connected
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More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Hi, everyone. I'm Maggie McGrath, editor of Forbes Women.
00:06Fawn Weaver is the driving force behind Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey,
00:11one of the fastest-growing American whiskey brands that Forbes estimates is worth more than $1 billion.
00:18Fawn last year also became a New York Times bestselling author, and she joins us today.
00:24Fawn, thank you so much for being here.
00:25Thank you for having me.
00:26So I was listening to an interview you did recently, and I think this is a great place to start.
00:31You said, quote,
00:32I think people think the end result is indicative of where someone began.
00:38I prove the end result has nothing to do with where you begin.
00:42Yeah.
00:43What should the Forbes audience know about where you began?
00:46Well, what I'm referring to there is the fact that I left home when I was 15 years old,
00:51and I moved to Jordan Downs, which is the projects in Watts, Los Angeles, California,
00:57and I was there for a period of time, and then I lived in three homeless shelters by the time I was 18 years old,
01:04and then dropped out of high school in between there, and by the time I was 20, I had tried to commit suicide twice.
01:10That's my beginning that I'm talking about there.
01:15And so often when you hear about the success of entrepreneurs, so much of that is skipped, and I go, no, no, no, don't skip that part.
01:24All of that is important because it framed who I am, and it helped me to build a fortitude that most people don't have.
01:32You experienced hardship at such a young age.
01:36What were the skills you developed then that you have used as an entrepreneur?
01:40No nonsense and being authentically me because it's what led me to suicide is trying to fit into a world
01:49that tries to create and to shape and to mold people into robots, into people that think like them
01:57and have the same political thought process, have the same background or worldview, and we don't.
02:03We're all created to be so incredibly unique, and yet we're all acting like we think alike, and we should think alike.
02:11And so my thought process, I can look at something.
02:14People can be debating something back and forth, back and forth, and I'm looking at it and going,
02:18yeah, I don't agree with neither one of you.
02:21You know, but a part of that is because I love my worldview.
02:26I love every experience that I had that shaped me to become who I am.
02:32I think for those who come up, especially entrepreneurs, business people, if you've come up and your road has been easy
02:39and the most difficult thing that you had to experience was getting high scores on a test or in your grades,
02:46you typically don't have street smarts, right?
02:49And you typically don't have an ability to be able to communicate with people who did not grow up with a silver spoon in their mouth
02:56or did not grow up with a very easy path.
02:58Because I've had a challenging past but then forged a different kind of future,
03:04I can be in a room with the president of the United States, with 100 billionaires,
03:10or in the kitchen with custodians.
03:14And I'm the same person, and I feel so comfortable in every single one of those settings.
03:19Oh, that's interesting.
03:19You're the same person in all of those rooms.
03:21Every setting.
03:22Every room, every setting.
03:24Any person that you talk to about me, no matter what room I was in, they will say,
03:29she's that same girl.
03:31That is just who I am.
03:32And that girl had a vision for Uncle Nearest Whiskey.
03:36Can you take us back for folks who are watching who may not have read Chloe's story on you last year
03:40or who had seen you at our Power Women Summit, take us back.
03:44What was the inspiration behind building this brand?
03:47When you look at the bourbon industry, and I was a bourbon drinker before I came into this industry.
03:52When you look at the bourbon industry overall, we've had bourbon for 400 years, essentially.
03:59Officially, officially for a couple of hundred years.
04:03But there had never been, prior to Uncle Nearest hitting the shells, prior to Nearest Green Tennessee
04:08Whiskey, there had never been a bourbon brand that honored anyone or commemorated anyone or
04:15talked about anyone that wasn't a white male.
04:18I think Johnny Walker tried to do it with Jane Walker, so I was super disappointed when I learned
04:22they made her up.
04:23And so you have an entire industry, one of America's most foremost industries around the
04:35world.
04:35And we know that because every single time tariffs, they're retaliatory tariffs.
04:40The two industries that get hit first, agriculture, bourbon, every single time.
04:46Because around the world, bourbon is seen as apple pie, is American as apple pie.
04:50And so we know how important that industry is.
04:53And yet our country is 70% women and people of color.
04:56And there was never a bottle that spoke to anyone in that 70%.
05:01And so my love for bourbon wasn't impacted by that because I didn't know it until I came
05:09into the industry and started looking and saying, hey, wait a minute.
05:12But what drew me to the industry wasn't the bourbon itself.
05:15What drew me to the industry was the story of Nearest Green, the first known African-American
05:19master distiller, the teacher of Jack Daniel, the only known master distiller for Jack Daniel
05:25Distillery No. 7.
05:27And this story was lost to time in 1978.
05:32So the entire time Jack Daniel was alive, his descendants were alive and running the distillery,
05:37whether as president of the distillery or the head of the board, the entire time until
05:421978.
05:43The story of Nearest Green, his significance, his legacy in that company that is known around
05:48the world, it was always a part of the story.
05:53It was always a part of the official history.
05:55So much so that Nearest's descendants, when they were in college, they would bring friends
05:59back to the distillery for a tour so that their friends could hear about their ancestor.
06:04Like there was so much pride from the Green family.
06:07And then the story disappeared in 78.
06:09So from 78 until the time that the story reemerged because of that photo in 2016, that story was
06:19gone.
06:20And if it weren't for the fact that Jack Daniel took a photo with the only known photo that
06:25we have of him taking a picture with anyone other than himself.
06:29So the only known photo of Jack with other people, he decides to cede the center position of the entire
06:36photograph to an African-American man.
06:39This is taken circa 1904.
06:41And if you did something like that, I could just imagine the photographer behind the camera going,
06:47I'm sorry, there's a black man.
06:49There's a Negro in the center of this photo.
06:52Do y'all realize there's a Negro in the center of this photo?
06:57The photo was meant to be about Jack, about his business, about his legacy.
07:03And he chose to put an African-American man, Nearest Green's son, George Green, to the right of him.
07:08And then he stepped off center.
07:11That's, to me, that was, he was trying to say something.
07:14He was trying to do something.
07:16And I wanted to know, what was that statement he was making?
07:20And as I dove into it, it was very clear that the statement that he was making was,
07:25this is my mentor.
07:28This is my friend.
07:29This is that person where there would be no Jack Daniel distillery known around the world
07:35if it wasn't for Nearest Green making this whiskey and then his sons continuing in his footsteps.
07:41This would not be what it is.
07:43And so he also had the foresight to know, at some point, someone would try to erase the story.
07:51But they wouldn't be able to, because they'd have to deal with that photo.
07:55I've heard you tell this story before.
07:57I just got goosebumps again hearing it.
07:58It's so powerful.
08:00So you were drawn to the story of Nearest Green.
08:03What's the next step?
08:05Did you find a recipe?
08:06Was that the basis of what we now know as Uncle Nearest?
08:09Or did you talk to his descendants and come up with a whole new mash bill?
08:14Yeah.
08:14So we have the original recipe.
08:16The original recipe calls for corn malt.
08:18We did one batch with the corn malt and decided, now we understand why they don't use corn malt anymore.
08:26It is such a hassle, and it doesn't make it taste any better.
08:29So we were like, replace the corn malt with corn.
08:32We'll be just fine.
08:33We have the original recipe, but what people don't understand is what made Nearest Green's whiskey, what he was making for Jack Daniel, what it made it so special, wasn't the recipe.
08:44There were 16 distilleries in a four-mile radius.
08:46They were all using essentially the same recipe.
08:50And the recipe would change every season.
08:52So we have the original written down, and they literally, it's the grain, the mash bill is changing per season.
08:59And so the recipe did not matter as much as the process, and it's what I love about Tennessee whiskey.
09:06Tennessee whiskey, by legal definition, is a straight bourbon whiskey.
09:09It's why I can refer to Uncle Nearest and Nearest Green as Tennessee whiskey or bourbon or both.
09:15But the difference between bourbon and Tennessee whiskey is the process that came in with the West Africans.
09:22It is the process that Nearest Green was utilizing that he taught a young Jack Daniel.
09:28You cannot categorize your bourbon as Tennessee whiskey unless it's made in Tennessee and unless it follows the Lincoln County process,
09:38taking traditional bourbon distillate, running it through sugar, maple, charcoal before it goes to the barrels to remove the congeners.
09:45So one of the things that people learn when they're sipping on Uncle Nearest is that they can sip on it,
09:52and as long as they don't add sugar or carbonation, they could sip on that thing all night and wake up in the morning and be perfectly refreshed.
09:58That's the Lincoln County process in moving those congeners out of there.
10:04It also is a process that makes it so perfectly flavorful that, well, the barrels do anyhow,
10:10that on the other side of it, nothing needs to be added.
10:14So Uncle Nearest, Nearest Green, none of our bottles have ever added anything.
10:17So every single one is naturally fat-free, carb-free, sugar-free, and gluten-free.
10:22People wouldn't think about that, but that's because we've been so accustomed in America to drinking spirits that have additives
10:28that we didn't realize the way that Nearest made it to begin with was perfect.
10:33You talk about where you are now personally is not where you begin, and the same is true for a business.
10:39Yes.
10:39Forbes estimates that Uncle Nearest is worth a little more than $1 billion.
10:43But if you think back to the early days or the stepping stones it took to get to where you are now,
10:48what was an early challenge in building a Tennessee whiskey brand in the U.S., and how did you overcome that challenge?
10:54The challenges still exist.
10:56Every year presents a new variation of the same challenges.
11:00Capital is always a challenge, and you talk to entrepreneurs all the time.
11:04People assume that when you get to a certain level, when you're making a certain amount of revenue, that then everything else is easy.
11:14There's a reason a company can be worth $3 trillion and they're still raising capital.
11:19The bigger you get, the faster you're growing, the more money it costs.
11:24Making sure that I'm raising smart money and ensuring that I still maintain control and I only bring in investors that support my vision, my long-term vision, that's not easy to do.
11:37That's one of the largest challenges.
11:39But I would say the largest challenge in the spirit of business overall that most consumers don't realize, I can't sell directly to the consumer outside of my distillery.
11:49I can't sell to the restaurant, the bars, the retailers, the amusement parks, any place where you go and you get Uncle Nearest.
11:59I was not allowed to sell it to them.
12:01I could go into those places and tell them why they should carry it, just like we ask for everybody to do that on our behalf.
12:09But it's ultimately up to a middle group, a center party.
12:16It's a second tier in our industry, the distributor tier.
12:19The challenge there is the distributors, most of their bills are paid for by the six largest spirit conglomerates.
12:27They easily control more than 90% of the volume of alcohol sales in this country, six companies.
12:35And so then you have a company like Uncle Nearest that, yes, it's fast growing, but we are still so tiny when it comes to the revenue for these distributors.
12:44So if one of the big guys comes to the distributor and says, listen, I need you to buy $100 million worth of product this quarter so that my report says, you know, my 10K or my 10Q says fill in the blank.
12:58Then my $10 million order all of a sudden is put on hold because they're beholden to the big guys.
13:06And so one of the things we've been really fortunate about is people who know the story of Uncle Nearest, they become evangelists, especially when they come to our distillery.
13:15They leave as evangelists and they'll go to restaurants and say, listen, if you don't have Uncle Nearest, I'm not ordering a spirit.
13:21I'll have wine.
13:22Here's the deal.
13:23Those restaurants make so much less money flowing to the bottom line when you buy wine.
13:29And so when someone says, I'll have Uncle Nearest.
13:31I don't have it.
13:32Okay, I'll have a Coke.
13:34Oh, that gets that restaurant's attention.
13:37And so we have people doing that all around the country.
13:41And so it forces the hand of the distributors of the second tier to say, we better back this brand because America loves it.
13:48But if we didn't have that, we probably would not exist.
13:53I have about 10 follow-up questions to what you just said there, but let's go with the customer and let's bring in this book, which you published last year and which has hit the bestseller list.
14:01Yes.
14:02How has the book played into perhaps the customer acquisition strategy, if at all?
14:08It's been huge for a couple of reasons.
14:10Number one, it is a huge driver for people coming to the distillery and really learning more and experiencing it.
14:18When you come to our distillery, no matter what your background is, race, political affiliation, we don't care.
14:23We love everyone.
14:25And you feel it on our ground.
14:26So no matter where else, they could be debating everything across America.
14:30But when you come to Shelbyville, Tennessee, and you come on the grounds of Nearest Green Distillery, you know that you are welcome with every thought, every background, everything.
14:38And so that's important because you can't come to Nearest Green Distillery and not leave there an evangelist.
14:44You meet the people that are behind this brand, the people who love it, the people who support it, and the people who this supports.
14:52And so that's a huge part of it.
14:53The other piece is because our company grew in an industry that historically has never seen a woman or a person of color out front as a founder and CEO and succeeding at it.
15:06Because of that, so many people assumed that one of the big guys were actually behind this brand, and I was a face.
15:13That was throughout the industry with bartenders, with restaurant owners.
15:18They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we've heard about that.
15:20But the assumption was one of two things.
15:22Either I was the face of the company or I was building this to sell to one of the big guys.
15:29In either instance, no one wanted to get really behind it, at least not in the industry, because then they're looking at it and going, oh, she's going to just sell to one of the spirit conglomerates, or she's not even really the founder and owner of this.
15:42She's just the face.
15:43And this book shatters that notion.
15:46And people get to see how much I've sacrificed to be sitting across from you and still how much I sacrifice.
15:53Part two of this book, and in the building from where this book leaves off to where we're going next, the number of challenges in that, that's a whole book by itself.
16:05We'll get to where you're going next, but I want to tie something you just said to something you also said about distributors.
16:10We were at a dinner last fall where you kind of talked about that distribution layer at the time.
16:15And you made a comment about the gender composition of that distribution layer.
16:20So you are held up as a unicorn, relatively speaking, as a female founder in the whiskey space, in the alcohol space.
16:26That in and of itself is rare.
16:28Being a black woman makes it rarer.
16:30But can you talk about what you said at this dinner about the gender composition of distributors and how that plays into the fact that you sit in such a rare seat?
16:40Yeah, it's not even just gender.
16:42It's gender and race.
16:43The entire distributor tier, easily 99% of them in leadership are only two races, Jewish and Italian.
16:52And it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with that.
16:56They start at that distributor tier, and that's passed down from generation to generation.
17:00But think of the challenge that they have in understanding a brand like this.
17:05They have spent their entire careers marketing to, you know, bourbon is being marketed to white men.
17:11Vodka is being marketed to women.
17:14Like, there are all these different segments.
17:16But they've never had anyone who looks like me and anyone of my gender sitting around the table that leads any of those companies.
17:28And so the fact that the best way to describe it, or the way I like to describe it, is people can look at it as racism.
17:36They can look at it as gender bias.
17:38I don't.
17:38I look at it as a lack of familiarity.
17:41So if you take two little girls, and, you know, they've actually done this experiment, but if you take two little girls, a little black girl, a little white girl, and you take them into a toy store, at least when we had toy stores.
17:51I think y'all still have FAO sports, at least at LGA, right?
17:54Yes.
17:54And, but if you take them into a toy store and say, pick any doll that you want, the little black girl is going to pick a black doll.
18:03The little white girl is going to pick a white doll.
18:05They're not racist.
18:07They're going to choose that because of familiarity.
18:10And so that's the nuance with this, is that when I sit with these distributors, I flat out remind them that their industry is rooted in the mob.
18:20That's where it came from.
18:22That's the founding of it.
18:24And then those families passed it down generation and generation to generation.
18:28And so a lot of it is still run like that.
18:30And so I tell them all the time, when have you ever seen any black person other than Sammy Davis Jr. sitting with the mob?
18:35And so if their entire rooms, when they go to dinner, when they are spending time with people, if everyone looks like them, which they do, they lack the familiarity to understand the true significance of Uncle Nearest to America as a whole.
18:53So the biggest challenge is, is just having those conversations and being around them enough for them to become familiar with a person like me.
19:03That's the hardest part.
19:04You are also hiring women and women of color.
19:08And to talk about families, you have a descendant from Nearest Green as your master distiller.
19:14Can you talk about how you got her on board?
19:16So Victoria Eadie Butler is our master blender.
19:18She's now four-time master blender of the year.
19:21When it comes to bourbon, what I didn't really realize is the process is so similar from one distillery to the next that the taste profile for a lot of distilleries are not that dissimilar.
19:35What really sets each one apart are their master blenders.
19:40It's that person who can take 20 different barrels, blend it together, and create something that tastes like nothing else that's in the market.
19:48And Victoria is brilliant at it.
19:51But because she didn't go to school for it, I mean, she did the whole executive bourbon store and all that, but she was already a master blender before she did that.
19:59She just went off of instinct.
20:01What do I want to taste?
20:02What do I like?
20:03So she didn't follow a single rule.
20:06So one of the things that every master blender, for the most part, that they do around the world is you proof your whiskey down to 40 proof in order to taste it.
20:16Because what you're looking for is you're looking for flaws.
20:19So they add so much water, so then it's just 40 proof.
20:22They swish it around.
20:23They spit it out.
20:24And then what's left on the tongue is what they determine if it has flaws, if it doesn't have flaws.
20:30Well, Victoria never knew that she was supposed to be looking for flaws.
20:34She's looking for perfection.
20:35And she never knew she was supposed to spit it out.
20:38And so her thought process, even to this day, is if I spit it out, how do I know how it feels going down my throat, at my chest?
20:46How do I know if it burns or if it hugs?
20:49And so for her, she is still the only master blender that I know of in the world that sips at foolproof and does not spit it out.
21:00Like straight out of the barrel, that's how she's enjoying it because it lets her know what the full experience for a customer is going to be.
21:07So when people talk about how smooth Uncle Nearest is, when they talk about the fact that we're the most awarded bourbon and Tennessee whiskey for 2019, 2020, 2021, 22, 23, 24, it's because of her process and the fact that she's like, I'm going to drink it like the customer drinks it.
21:25So I know exactly how the entire experience is.
21:28And that's very unique to her.
21:30I mean, I think that would lay out most people, but she's fine with it.
21:33Well, and just to add a little more context to Victoria, she had a multi-decade career, not in whiskey.
21:40She was in law enforcement and she was on our 50 over 50 list last year, which is why.
21:44Oh, I love that.
21:45So it's a remarkable story for her, but it plays into the story of Nearest Green and Uncle Nearest, I think.
21:52Absolutely.
21:52So she was with the Department of Justice and one of her jobs was to oversee analysts.
21:58So she's going right now, she's doing it with whiskey instead of dead bodies.
22:02But she's still essentially overseeing analysts, right?
22:07And people that are tasting it and, you know, her master blender house is much better than a crime scene.
22:12She'll tell you that.
22:14But it is the same meticulous attention to detail.
22:19That is what she brings to making her blends that make it into.
22:25And then she also selects all of the single barrels.
22:27When we talk about stories, we talk about chapters, and Uncle Nearest is entering a new chapter that is not solely focused on whiskey.
22:35Fawn, can you tell us what's next or what's happening right now?
22:38So coming into this industry, you could not have paid me to believe that I would go into anything outside of whiskey.
22:44It was going to be Uncle Nearest to the very end.
22:46But then as I began understanding that second tier and how so many brands, especially brands that are created by women and people of color,
22:55which is 70% of this country, right?
22:57So you have us on the buying side.
23:00Even beyond that 70%, even within the other 30%, most of the women in those households still control the purse.
23:07They decide what bourbon is coming into that house.
23:11And so you've got 70% of this country that is doing the majority of the buying.
23:17And yet you don't have any from that 70% that have ever founded a company that succeeded.
23:23How is that possible?
23:24You've got the buyer.
23:25You have the maker.
23:27And so I recognized very early on it's that second tier.
23:30But I also recognize that they're just doing what they have to do to make sure that they grow and that they succeed.
23:37And so they're looking for sure bets every single time.
23:41And they're looking to make the spirit conglomerates happy.
23:45That's who pays the bill.
23:46So if bourbon is down with the spirit conglomerates, they have a vodka.
23:50They have a cognac.
23:51They have a tequila.
23:52So whatever is down, something else is up.
23:54And it's able to make sure that they're always making money.
23:58Well, if we were just whiskey, that means that there's only a small segment of the population that we can appeal to.
24:05Because everybody's not going to love bourbon.
24:07Everyone's not going to love whiskey.
24:08And so I realized that in this industry, there had always been, essentially, you had two routes to go.
24:16When you came into the industry, either you would fail, which easily 99% fail coming into this industry, easily.
24:24It's probably more like 99.9, just based on what I've seen in the last eight years.
24:2799% fail.
24:29And if you happen to be one of the less than 1% that succeed, immediately you hit a ceiling when it comes to the second tier, where you really have no choice but to sell to one of the spirit conglomerates.
24:47To be a part of their distribution network, to have their marketing dollars, to have their backing.
24:53And so coming into it, I said, okay, there's always been only two options.
24:56Either you fail, and if by some struck of luck you don't fail, you're forced to sell because you can't go any further.
25:05And I looked at it and said, I'm not going to fail, and I'm also not going to sell.
25:09So then that means I've got to create a third option.
25:12That third option became, I have to build the spirit conglomerate.
25:17And that means that we don't just own a bourbon company, we don't just own a Tennessee whiskey company, but we also own a vodka company.
25:26So we bought Square One.
25:27It was this year, it celebrates its 20th anniversary of being the first organic craft spirit company in America.
25:35We bought it because it's the best vodka I'd ever tasted.
25:38I'm not a vodka fan, I'm not a vodka person.
25:41So it took us about seven years to find a vodka I liked, and we found it with Square One.
25:45And then we became, two years ago, the largest Grand Champagne vineyard owner in the city of Cognac, France.
25:52And people saw that announcement, they thought, she's making champagne.
25:55Absolutely not, not enough money in champagne.
25:58Talk about failing quick, going to champagne.
26:02It is, Grand Champagne is the creme de la creme grape for Cognac.
26:06And when I am looking at Cognac as a category, most people don't understand 100% is made in the Cognac, France region, but only 3% stays in France.
26:1756% of the revenue for Cognac is here in America.
26:23And once you come into America, 54% that consume it are Black Americans.
26:2919% are Black Latinos.
26:32Black Latinos are everybody that dances on 2 and 4.
26:35So when you walk by a bodega and you see a Puerto Rican or a Dominican and they're dancing to the same music as us, that's Black Latinos.
26:40So you have about 75% of the consumption of Cognac in the largest Cognac market in the world by far.
26:51It's consumed by Black people.
26:54And we've never had anything presented to us for our palate that was created by someone with our palate.
27:02Fascinating.
27:03So perhaps a technical question, but will it be Uncle Nearest Cognac?
27:09No.
27:10Okay, so it'll be a different...
27:10These are all separate companies.
27:12So think about it this way.
27:13I like to use Bacardi for an example because it's the easiest one.
27:17If I say Bacardi to a consumer, they immediately think of rum.
27:22They think of mojitos.
27:23But if I say Bacardi within our industry, nobody thinks of rum because that's not their biggest seller.
27:28What they think of is Patron Tequila, who they own.
27:31They think of Grey Goo Vodkas, who they own.
27:33They think of Doucet Cognac, who they own.
27:36So Uncle Nearest Incorporated becomes the umbrella brand.
27:40But Uncle Nearest stands as the bourbon house, as the Tennessee whiskey house.
27:45Square One stands as the vodka house.
27:47And we haven't announced the name of the Cognac, but that's coming really, really soon.
27:52Oh, I'm so curious.
27:53All right, we're going to have to have you back when you're ready to announce that.
27:57But when you talk about financing some of these purchases, and this kind of goes back to your point earlier about investors, what's your strategy?
28:04Are you going off of your revenue, or are you approaching new investors for some of this growth?
28:09All of the above.
28:09So there's such a multi-prong here because this is a long-term vision, not every investor wants to be in long-term.
28:17So I have to make sure that I'm constantly cultivating investors to come in for the secondary market so that when someone is ready to go, we have someone ready to buy.
28:28And in this particular market, that's a great challenge because so few people are investing in illiquid anything, right?
28:35Now, granted, given the stock market, they probably should start looking at investments like this more so.
28:45But because of that, it is that aspect of it.
28:48When the spirits market is down, it's a challenge.
28:52But I still have to make sure I'm doing it.
28:54I'm still looking for those right investors.
28:57I had a call with a couple yesterday that wanted to invest, and I won't just take their check.
29:04I need to understand, why do you want to invest?
29:07Are you with me for the long term?
29:10Because if you're looking for me to exit in two years and three years, that's not where we're headed here.
29:14That's not what I'm looking to do.
29:16So I want to make sure that we're aligned on the vision.
29:19And so I am constantly raising money, but I'm also constantly improving our cash flow to make sure that we're able to pay for the things that we need and to expand and to grow.
29:32So the amount of expenses I've cut from Q1 of 2024 to Q1 of 2025 is pretty astounding because we still grew double digits in doing that.
29:41I want to quickly emphasize something that you just said.
29:43You were on the phone with a couple.
29:45These are individual investors.
29:47You don't go the traditional VC or private equity route.
29:50No.
29:50Why?
29:51Because then I'm just something on a spreadsheet.
29:56And most of the time, you've got a bunch of junior analysts trying to find problems with the company.
30:01They're looking for them because they are trying to show their value, their worth.
30:07So they're looking at graphs.
30:08They're looking at charts.
30:10And they're not looking at who is the person behind it, who is the founder behind it.
30:15One of our lead investors, one of our major investors, he reminds me all the time.
30:19He says, Fogg, you don't invest in the horse, you invest in the jockey.
30:25You don't bet on the horse, you bet on the jockey.
30:28And he was like, and all my money is on this jockey.
30:31The reason why that's important is because that jockey has to be able to make mistakes, has to be able to pivot if something isn't going right.
30:40But when you've got junior analysts looking at a graph and they look at something go down, then there's a panic that creates a larger panic that creates a bigger issue.
30:51Now I'm spending time explaining something that we've tried out that we may or may not decide to pivot from.
30:58Instead of pivoting, I'm now explaining to you why we tried it out to begin with.
31:03I don't have that kind of time when I'm trying to disrupt an entire industry.
31:07I'm trying to build a spirit conglomerate, something that has not been done in over 100 years and something that has never been done by someone who wasn't a white male.
31:16I have to have the ability to make mistakes and to fix those mistakes.
31:21But if an investor is sitting across from me, they can look in my eyes and go, there is zero chance this woman is going to fail.
31:28She will sell her house, her cars, everything on her back before she ever lets this fail.
31:34A spreadsheet can't tell that story.
31:36We're determined not to fail, but we are speaking in a moment of tremendous economic uncertainty.
31:41You referenced tariffs earlier.
31:43Can you talk about the impact you've been feeling over the last few weeks?
31:46And we should frame this as the ground is shifting beneath our feet.
31:49The policies have kind of been changing week by week.
31:52But what's been the effect that you felt?
31:54So here's the thing.
31:55First of all, I anticipated it.
31:57I expected it.
31:58I planned for it.
32:00Why?
32:00Because the incoming administration told us very clearly what they were going to do.
32:06I mean, the entire time Trump was running this second time, he kept talking about tariffs.
32:11So I don't understand why the 50% of the country that voted for him are now shocked by the tariffs.
32:19There is literally nothing he has done since coming into office that has shocked me.
32:24Nothing.
32:25Not even the size.
32:26Because I've spoken to people on Wall Street who said we expected the tariffs, but not the extent of that April 2nd announcement.
32:32Have you ever seen him do anything that wasn't over the top?
32:37Why would anybody expect that it was going to be reasonable, that it was going to be 10%?
32:42More importantly, we have started six trade wars in the history of our country.
32:47Every single one has hurt us.
32:49It hurt our automotive industry.
32:51It hurt our farmers.
32:52We can go across the board and never has tariffs worked.
32:56What has worked are zero-for-zero agreements across the board.
33:00We can go through every single time we've done a zero-for-zero agreement.
33:03We'll take spirits, for example.
33:05The zero-for-zero agreement that we agreed to in 1997, until that was reversed in 2018, our collective industries, our collective trade grew 450%, close to $8 billion was that growth.
33:20That is success.
33:21When you look at the zero-for-zero agreement on our micro-trips, on most of our technology that we need, that we need to be able to buy in order to make some of the incredible things that, like, NVIDIA makes, right?
33:33When you look at that, the reason why we're able to do that is because of the zero-for-zero trade agreement.
33:39So you're talking about something that has benefited this country by trillions of dollars.
33:43But that's not the conversation that this administration is having.
33:48Why?
33:49Because there's no shock in that.
33:51There's no headlines in that.
33:53Zero-for-zero agreement gets you no headlines.
33:55You know what gets you a headline?
33:57It's putting a 145% tariff on China.
34:00You know what keeps you in the headlines?
34:02So we had to understand that if we're electing someone whose priority is to be on everyone's lips every single day, to be in the headlines, you're talking about a person who did The Apprentice, who literally was firing people on television, right?
34:24I don't know why we want him to be someone different than who he is.
34:28It's not fair to him.
34:29It's not fair to the country.
34:30We should have taken him at his word.
34:33I am going to come in here, and I'm going to disrupt everything.
34:36I'm going to disrupt the markets.
34:38I'm going to do all of that.
34:40We should have taken him at his word.
34:42So you were taking him at his word.
34:43Absolutely.
34:44What did you do to—I hate the word future-proof.
34:46It's become kind of jargon.
34:48Oh, I can tell you.
34:49So there's a couple of things.
34:50Number one, all of the glass—so our glass all comes in from overseas.
34:54Every bit of glass that we need for the next two years is already in America.
34:58Every bit of cork, we get our corks from Portugal, all in America for the next—what we need for the next two years.
35:05It was very clear that if he was able to win both the House and the Senate, there would be no guardrails, which means that he could essentially do whatever he wanted with tariffs, and he had already said, I'm putting in tariffs.
35:18And so we began making sure that whatever we needed for the next two years that was coming from outside of this country, that we had it in our country already.
35:27From Q1 of 2024 to Q1 of 2025, we cut our expenses by about 40%, but we still figured out how to grow.
35:36And so these are the things that we had to begin doing the moment we saw the administration and where that was going to go, because then we knew, okay, the market is going to get crazy, credit lines are going to get tight, and money is going to be expensive.
35:52And a company our size, how are we able to weather a storm like that, but to prepare for it in advance?
35:59So you really looked at the equation in front of you and decided to cut costs.
36:03I took him at his word.
36:05He'd been saying the same thing for two years.
36:09This is not—I mean, what we're looking at right now, everyone is treating it like it's a new trade war.
36:13It's not a new trade war.
36:14This is part two of the original trade war that he never finished.
36:18And so we had an anticipation that he was going to finish that trade war.
36:23When we forecasted for 2025, by October of last year, we had pulled out all numbers that were in relation to international sales, all revenue, because we didn't anticipate any would come in.
36:36So for us, if we get international revenue this year, woo-hoo!
36:40Oh, so it's just a fun bonus.
36:42It's a fun bonus.
36:42That is the cherry on top.
36:44But what we're doing does not focus at all on international sales.
36:51But you're getting them.
36:53We are, but not what we would otherwise be, meaning our focus would not—well, we would have been pushing into other countries.
37:01So two years ago, in 2018—so now what's that?
37:07Six years ago, right?
37:08In 2018, we had already begun going into other countries around the world.
37:13We knew the story of Nearest Green, of Uncle Nearest, would resonate in so many countries around the world.
37:18So by the middle of 2018, we were already in 12 countries.
37:23Once the tariffs began, we had just really laid down groundwork in the EU, and we were beginning to build.
37:31And here comes these tariffs.
37:32The zero-for-zero agreements were from 97, were all of a sudden, poof, gone.
37:37And so we looked at that and said, oh, my gosh, if something could be reversed like that after 21 years of a successful agreement, if just on a whim it could be—then we're vulnerable.
37:48And we're too young and we're too small to be that vulnerable.
37:52And so we began pulling everything from international back into the U.S. with almost all of our resources going into building this company in the U.S.
38:03So as the tariffs were hitting, I was getting all these text messages from our investors—I call them our sixth man because they help us to grow this company—I was getting all these text messages going, how does this impact us?
38:13And every single one, I was able to respond and go, not at all.
38:17Sure.
38:18Investors really like to hear that answer.
38:20I want to ask about another potential economic threat.
38:22And in New York City, we see bars and restaurants struggling a little bit, A, because of rent, but B, because consumers are drinking less.
38:30Some of this is due to the economic conditions that we've been discussing, and some of this is due to health concerns.
38:36Are you worried about bigger shifts in consumer trends here and a general decline?
38:44No.
38:44No.
38:45It's the same reason why prohibition was such a failed experiment.
38:49Listen, we're America.
38:51We're going to drink.
38:52We may not drink as much as Russia, but we're going to drink.
38:55So here's the thing, that people, they get really worked up in the middle of temporary issues.
39:02And so when you are looking at consumption being down, are you not consuming a lot less than you did during COVID?
39:10I'm consuming a lot less than I did during COVID.
39:13Why?
39:13Because we consume too much during COVID, right?
39:16And so we have to expect the pendulum swings.
39:19It's why when someone is in the White House and everyone on both sides at this point is like mad, mad, I'm never bothered by it.
39:27Why?
39:28It's a pendulum swing.
39:29It's going to come back the other way.
39:31Unfortunately, every single time that pendulum swings, the way that our country is now built, it's swinging pretty wildly.
39:39And so you can expect that that pendulum is going to keep going back and forth.
39:43And so right now, people are going to drink less alcohol.
39:46This is how I can tell you that this will not last.
39:49The non-alk movement, you want to know how big it got for spirits?
39:54It got up to 1% of the entire non-alcoholic movement.
40:00And then it hit a ceiling.
40:02And it's been going down ever since.
40:04Why?
40:05Because they have to add so much stuff, all of these additives, to try to mirror the flavor of something that is naturally carb-free, sugar-free, fat-free, and gluten-free.
40:17They have to add all of this stuff.
40:20So then you have to argue, hmm, is that actually better for you?
40:25Is that healthy?
40:26Or is it better to just drink in moderation?
40:28Is it better to just drink what is actually recommended for people to consume in terms of spirit?
40:34And so what we're looking at here is a pendulum swing.
40:36Ask me this question again in two years.
40:38I guarantee you the pendulum is already on its way back up.
40:41I will ask you in two years.
40:43So I will say, as someone who has tried to bring her drinking down for some health reasons, my choice is either I will have alcohol tonight or I will have just water.
40:54It is not will I have a mocktail.
40:56Yeah, exactly.
40:57And once people realize that they're sitting down and the mocktails or the non-alcoholic cocktails, when you look at the amount of calories and sugar in that relative to having, sitting down and just sipping on a glass of Uncle Nearest, number one, those mocktails, you drink them so fast because your body loves sugar.
41:18Those, those, that dopamine is like, woo-hoo, give me more, give me more, give me more.
41:22But when you sit down and you have something like Uncle Nearest that has no sugar in it, you can literally sip on that all night.
41:28It's relaxing.
41:29It's enjoyable.
41:30You have a great conversation.
41:32You're not waking up with a hangover.
41:33But, you know, you get into those mocktails.
41:36There's so much sugar.
41:36You kind of get a sugar hangover.
41:38And then you have a sugar crash.
41:40So that, those are not here to stay.
41:43I mean, you'll still have some people that do it, but then their waistline will start expanding and they'll figure, they'll come back to purpose.
41:52That is an interesting prediction.
41:55You know, while we're talking about the future, you said, I'm not going to fail and I'm not going to sell.
42:00Yeah.
42:01What is the future?
42:02What is the legacy you're building?
42:03Is there an IPO?
42:05Is it, you mentioned a conglomerate.
42:06What's the preview you can give us?
42:09You know, who knows?
42:09What I know for sure is I am 48 years old.
42:12I'll be 49 this year.
42:14I plan to go at this pace for the next 25 years.
42:17And I plan to ensure that this company continues to grow in double digits, no matter if we have a year like the year we're having, where everybody is declining, or, you know, things seem to be in turmoil, or if we're having a great year.
42:30That is, it's my responsibility as a CEO of this company to figure out how in every single situation how to grow this company.
42:37And I'm going to keep doing it.
42:38And so there could be an IPO, there could be a number of things.
42:42Selling will not be one of them, though.
42:44Selling will not be one of them.
42:45As we talk about legacy, Harvard Business School wrote a case study on Uncle Nearest.
42:50Yeah, they're doing their second as we speak.
42:52What do you hope students learn from your experience as a founder?
42:56I hope that they challenge the way that people think that businesses need to be built.
43:02I hope that they challenge this notion that you have to have VC and PE money.
43:08And I think it's important because one of the things that you will notice where a founder comes out, especially women, when you look at the PE and VC space, again, there's a lack of familiarity there, right?
43:22There's a lack of, we do business differently than they do, and we should.
43:26We're different.
43:27We're wired differently, so we shouldn't be trying to do it the same as them.
43:31But there is this lack of familiarity.
43:35So when you see a woman who builds something phenomenal and then takes VC money, you can clock it with an egg timer.
43:44Within three years, all of a sudden, they're putting people on that board that that founder doesn't want.
43:50Give them five years, she's out every single time.
43:55Find me a company that that hasn't happened yet, that the woman was a founder, took VC money, and she wasn't out within five years.
44:03Find me one.
44:04Canva comes to mind.
44:05Well, think about how she built, though.
44:08Canva, nobody would give her any money.
44:10And so she forged that by herself.
44:13She did that with almost nothing.
44:15She bootstrung that.
44:17So that meant that she held the power.
44:20So before any VC ever came into Canva, she already had established the power, and she had already set her boundaries in advance.
44:31You think about power.
44:33You've been careful about not just not taking VC and PE money, but I've heard you say that you have waited until the last possible second to fundraise.
44:41Which is a problem, by the way.
44:43You know, it could be a little stressful for everybody around me.
44:45But I do that because I believe in my ability to grow the valuation of the company every day that I am running it.
44:51And so I look at it and say, if I can hold on for six more months, I have grown the value of this company by more in six months, which means I'm giving up less shares for that same amount of money.
45:03So I've done that every single time.
45:05But the power isn't about a power trip.
45:07The power is making sure, the control is making sure that I'm able to see this vision that I began, that I'm able to see it to the very end.
45:16And I can't do that if somebody else is calling shots.
45:19So one of the things my sixth man will tell you, my investor group will tell you, I listen to what they say.
45:24I will bring things to them that I'm not required to because I hold the votes.
45:30But I care about their opinions.
45:32I care about their experience.
45:33But ultimately, I am asking them to believe in me, even if they can't see where I'm going in the moment I'm going.
45:42Believe that I am not going to fail at this.
45:44And in general, it seems like they do believe you.
45:48And you've talked before about how with investors, or at least your strategy, all it takes is, I only needed one.
45:54Only needed one.
45:55Who was your one?
45:56Michael Berman.
45:57And God bless him.
45:59He passed away a couple years ago.
46:01And he was so sick, and he was so frail at the very end.
46:07And there were only two things he wanted to do.
46:09And one of those things was to make it back to New York's Green Distillery.
46:12Michael Berman is, they wrote his obituary in the Los Angeles Times when he passed away, is he was the kingmaker in LA politics for a really long time.
46:24But nobody knew his name, and it was by design.
46:27He was behind the scenes doing the strategy for some of the most brilliant politicians that we knew.
46:33But people didn't know that he was behind the scenes.
46:35There was one particular Republican president, and I love this story because he loved to tell it.
46:40Michael was a chain smoker.
46:42I mean, a chain smoker.
46:43So when they took the cigarettes off of planes, he refused to get on the planes.
46:48They sent Air Force One for him.
46:50No, not Air Force One.
46:52Philip Morris One.
46:52When they had Philip Morris One, they sent Philip Morris One for him to bring him to the White House because they had a strategy they needed him to work through.
47:01The man was brilliant, but nobody knew who he was.
47:04He was behind the scenes, and he happened to be my husband's former boss.
47:07He was the one.
47:09And he told us when we began, he said, this is crazy.
47:13You got a $24 billion company who your trademarks are in the middle of theirs, referring to Brown Foreman, Jack Daniels' owner.
47:19Your trademarks are going to bump up against theirs, and if they decide to spend hundreds of millions of dollars suing you, every penny that I'm about to put in your company is going to go.
47:31But I believe in you, so I'm going to do it anyway.
47:34Anyway, and he put in the first $250,000.
47:38We've always had a minimum of $250,000 to get on the cap table.
47:40It's now $500,000, but we always had a minimum of $250,000.
47:43He put in the first $250,000.
47:45Then he brought in five other people that brought in $250,000.
47:49Then he doubled up to $500,000, and so did they.
47:51And so I tell people all the time because they go and they become so discouraged pitching this VC, that VC, this VC, that VC, and hearing no, no, no, no, no.
48:02They become so discouraged that they begin to think that there's something wrong with them.
48:06And what I tell them all the time is if you have a solid business plan and if you have no backup plan, meaning success is your only option and you are not going to fail, you're going to keep going no matter what,
48:18stop trying to pitch people.
48:22Literally only look for the one.
48:25There's over 20 million millionaires in America trying to figure out how to grow their portfolios, trying to figure out how to grow their wealth.
48:31If you are excited about your company, if you're excited about your brand, you could be standing next to your next investor in the line at Starbucks.
48:40People don't look at it that way.
48:41They think they have to go into an office and pitch a roundtable of people or pitch a conference room of table.
48:45No, you should be pitching on the street every single day, every person who you're talking to, talking about how incredible your brand is.
48:54But more importantly, investors don't really invest in a product.
48:57They invest in the person.
48:59And so what you have to make sure that they know is under no circumstances will you give up.
49:04And you seem like under no circumstances will you give up.
49:08If we speak again in a year, what do you wish to be able to report to Forbes about what you've accomplished in the ensuing year?
49:13That our vodka company has come back into the market, and our cognac has come into the market, and both are as successful as Uncle Nearest in the next year.
49:22In the next year.
49:23All right.
49:23We're going to have to have you back in that year.
49:25Fawn Weaver, thank you so much for sitting down with Forbes.
49:27I appreciate you.