At a House Education and Workforce Committee hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI) questioned witnesses about how benefits are cut due to marriage and 14(c) exemptions.
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00:00Thank you. Interesting point. In addition to pointing out the benefits, Cliff, the current welfare programs discourage people from working, I guess because some people like them dependent on the government.
00:11We should also point out that they strongly discourage people from getting married because obviously if you're a single parent and you marry somebody with an average income, all of a sudden you're no longer in poverty.
00:30And you could lose $25,000 a year in benefits. So I guess I'll ask you guys, that's not exactly the topic, but since it was brought up, is there a strong marriage penalty in society that causes people to perhaps not want to be married and lose all their federal benefits? Would either Mrs. OAN or Ms. McCutcheon care to tackle that?
00:56Thank you, Congressman. That's something I haven't really thought too much about, so I probably can't answer in detail.
01:04We'll just go with common sense here, right? When you have a bag full of $30,000 worth of benefits, daycare benefits, free low-income housing, free food stamps, earned income tax credit or whatnot,
01:17and you get married and you're no longer eligible for those benefits, do you think it causes less marriages in our society?
01:26There's like a $25,000 penalty for being married.
01:29Let me take that up. Absolutely. And this particularly goes to, and it's very similar with Section 14, which by the way is in the FLSA,
01:40so the DOL can't just write it out of the FLSA because they're not Congress. But when I was wage and hour administrator and I recovered back wages for 14C violations,
01:50the families came to me and say, we don't want all those back wages in one lump sum because we are going to lose other federal and state benefits
01:58if our son or daughter gets that huge chunk of back wages.
02:04So getting rid of 14C and other things in the federal law can discourage work and marriage.
02:11Yeah, yeah. Now, Mr. Stetner, I'm kind of appalled at your hostility towards 14C.
02:18So people here understand if you have certain disabilities, spina bifida, Down syndrome, quadriplegic even,
02:27in order to give you the benefit of work and make a little extra money,
02:32usually these peoples are on SSI for most of their income, they are allowed to work for under minimum wage, okay?
02:42I wondered how, and I love to tour these facilities, it makes you feel really good to see these incredibly happy people
02:49who at first blush, life is dealt kind of a tough situation, but they're working for two bucks an hour, three bucks an hour,
02:58enough to buy, to work on their own, enough to be like their siblings, have a job, maybe buy some clothes, buy some gifts for people, what have you.
03:06How many 14C certificate-like workplaces have you seen in the last few years?
03:16As a president of the Autism Society of Maryland, taking care of my daughter has autism,
03:24what we've done is we've helped people with autism get good jobs in the community,
03:30working in a manufacturing plant, working at a defense intelligence agency in Northrop Grumman.
03:35We can do better in 2025 than segregating people with disabilities into sheltered workplaces.
03:40Let's do better with things like the transition to Integrated Employment Act,
03:46which would allow states and communities to give the supports, coaching, and otherwise,
03:51so people can actually work in their own local restaurants, their own local bakeries, where I buy my baked goods.
03:56They don't need to be in segregated workplaces.
03:58Okay, what I'm asking is, have you talked to these folks?
04:01Whenever I tour my facilities to take advantage of 14C, I am always impressed on how happy the people are who are there.
04:11They're able to work there for an extended period of time and establish new friendships,
04:16which is also important for these people, because frequently if you are that disabled,
04:21your parents have to worry, are you going to have any friends outside your parents?
04:25Here you have friends that last for years and years and years.
04:28Don't you feel, and there are people who can work in a goal of all these workshops is to have people work outside,
04:39but some people can and some people can't, and that would be obvious to anybody who toured them,
04:45that the vast majority of people here are happy and that the vast majority of people working on the floor
04:50probably couldn't find somewhere to work in the community.
04:52Again, I'll ask you, have you specifically toured these places to talk to the employees to see whether they're happy or unhappy?
05:03Most people with disabilities and their parents want them to work and contribute to themselves.
05:09I'll just cut you off.
05:10I'm out of time, but that is just plain not true.
05:12Mr. Kiley from California.
05:21Thank you, Mr. Chair.
05:23Mr. Wolfson, you've done...