24.Hours in Police Custody S01E06 (10 Nov 2014)
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00:00If I show you some photos of your daughter
00:11How hard did you hit her?
00:17Are you embarrassed by her?
00:21Do people look down at you and your family because of her?
00:26Do you want to have control of her?
00:30You're laughing? Why are you laughing?
00:34Is that funny?
00:46Once the suspect is in custody, the police have 24 hours to investigate and interview.
00:56After that, it's either charge or release.
01:00You've been arrested on suspicion of human trafficking.
01:03On suspicion of stalking.
01:05On suspicion of GBH.
01:07Position and making of indecent images of children.
01:10On suspicion of conspiracy to murder.
01:12Start explaining.
01:13It's the police's job to ask what really happened.
01:20Where were you on the 28th of March?
01:22It was not me. I was not there.
01:24That could have been a hundred and one people.
01:26There's nothing in me with me.
01:28Who's innocent? Who's guilty?
01:40Why would Pete say that he'd assaulted him?
01:42Because he's deluded. He's a drunk.
01:44Well that's nonsense.
01:45From the streets to the interrogation rooms.
01:51Where's the knife?
01:52Did you have a knife?
01:53He makes specific threat that he is going to kill her.
01:57From the suspects to the head of CID.
02:00That's one hell of a shirt, David. I'm loving it.
02:06These are the men and women who have just 24 hours to find the evidence.
02:10I'm not letting him get away with it.
02:12I want him nicked and charged.
02:14If he kicks off, I'm out of the door.
02:16I'm a lover, not a fighter.
02:19Will they discover it before time runs out?
02:25Good news.
02:26Yeah.
02:28Got him.
02:44Think of your most exciting sex.
02:47Yeah?
02:48And you're nearly there.
02:50I can't wait to Monday.
02:51I can't wait to see.
02:52When are they coming?
02:53I've got the first game ticket.
02:55Six of us are going.
02:56I've got all the family going.
02:58Is that when they're having the break?
02:59Yeah.
03:00What are you going to think?
03:01Champions.
03:02Freddie Mercury is something.
03:03We are the champions.
03:04What else do you think?
03:07We're on our way back.
03:09We're on our way back.
03:10What else?
03:11Fuck the EFA.
03:12We're on our way back.
03:14Right, I'm going to go.
03:15I tell people I'm a detective.
03:19Sometimes they're a bit shocked.
03:21The people outside of work.
03:25I'm a bit girly, I suppose.
03:27A bit ditsy sometimes.
03:29I'm not a typical police officer.
03:32Is that my Curly Wurly you're eating?
03:33Why?
03:34Do you want to come out with me and get this boy?
03:35Yeah, I don't know what address he's at though.
03:36Do you?
03:37Yeah.
03:38So we'll go out and get him, shall we?
03:39I was a travel agent when I first left school.
03:40And then I was a personal banker for a couple of years.
03:41And then I went to something that was different every day.
03:42So at 22, I decided to join the police force.
03:43These tab vashes?
03:44Yes.
03:45No, it comes up like that.
03:46They don't fit properly.
03:47And when you wear them, they're so uncomfortable.
03:49I haven't even got mine.
03:51That doesn't fit, does it?
03:52I went to something that was different every day.
03:53So at 22, I decided to join the police force.
03:57These dad vashers?
03:58Yes.
03:59No, it comes up like that.
04:02They don't fit properly.
04:03And when you wear them, they're so uncomfortable.
04:06I haven't even got mine.
04:09That doesn't fit, does it?
04:10I think your problem is your top half's too high.
04:14But look, someone could stab me in there.
04:17Yeah, they could if they, yeah.
04:19No, but I'm being serious now.
04:20They're not fit for purpose.
04:22Okay.
04:24When I was in uniform, going out to the scenes and everything like that,
04:27I wanted to take it that step further and actually investigating it.
04:31Because when you're in uniform, you leave it at the arrest stage.
04:34You don't really know what happens.
04:35Whereas when you're a detective, you can follow it through,
04:37right through to the court stage.
04:39And it's a lot more interesting, I think.
04:41It's, hold on, let me just get my bearings.
04:44I love the job.
04:46I didn't think I'd still be in it now after nine years,
04:48but I wouldn't do anything else.
04:50Kathy, we're going.
04:50A 60-year-old man has turned himself in at the police station.
05:06This morning, a distressed 999 call was received from his 25-year-old daughter.
05:11I got a gentleman in.
05:27Sergeant, I've got a gentleman in.
05:39Congratulations.
05:40I've come and handed myself in the front office.
05:42You speak English?
05:43He's got, um...
05:44Is it a language line?
05:46Nah, I think he's all right.
05:47I think between you, Hobb and me, we can sort it out.
05:51Between Hobb?
05:51Pakistani, Bengali, and Indian.
05:53Yeah, that's...
05:54I think we can sort it out.
05:58Give us some grudge.
05:59The RP is his daughter.
06:00Basically, she's recently been married.
06:03Family's not happy with the marriage.
06:05Where were you born in?
06:06Pakistani?
06:07Do you understand why you've been arrested?
06:12Do you understand the allegation your daughter has made?
06:14No, not you.
06:16Okay, don't talk to us about it now, because we're not interviewing you.
06:19Another set of officers will interview you,
06:22and that'll be an opportunity for you to give us your side of the story.
06:25Okay?
06:25Can you have his pro-beads, he's saying?
06:35Sorry?
06:35He's asking if he can have his pro-beads.
06:38Yeah.
06:43You've got a pro-map in there.
06:45Yeah, we do, yeah.
06:47Quran, pro-map, the works.
06:50We've got it all.
06:51Good.
06:52Are you properly washed for the Quran?
06:54Mm-hmm?
06:54Are you properly washed to handle the Quran?
06:56Have you got what to do?
06:58No.
06:59No, he's got it.
07:01We don't have a prayer room as such, but you can pray in yourself.
07:05What do you want to get you out when you're facing it?
07:07We'll be able to tell you.
07:09Ash, you got more about your iPhone on you?
07:11iPhone?
07:11When you take him down to a cell, just get the compass on.
07:15Oh, the...
07:15Have fun and show him where Mecca is with you.
07:19Luton, being one of the most diverse towns in the country, brings its own kind of problems
07:30and issues.
07:32Communities themselves within the Muslim community do kind of like to deal with matters themselves,
07:38because calling the police is embarrassing to the community, because it could be frowned
07:43upon or shame is brought on the family.
07:46Would you like us to tell anyone you're here with us?
07:48No?
07:49Okay.
07:50Okay, this officer's going to take you to a cell.
07:52Be patient.
07:53At some point, like I said, we'll interview you and then we'll decide what's happening
07:56after that.
07:56All right, M6 room, please.
08:21What's going on?
08:23Huh?
08:24What's going on?
08:25Ah, they're keeping on the floor.
08:29Yeah?
08:40A quarter of Luton's population is Muslim.
08:46Hi there, you all right?
08:47In charge of maintaining good relations between the police and the community is Inspector Hobhawk.
08:53I'll buy that.
08:55You all right?
08:56How are you?
08:56You well?
08:57How are you, sir?
08:58Keep it well?
08:58How are you doing?
08:59You good?
09:00Yeah, no bad.
09:01You're good.
09:01Yeah, good.
09:02There isn't a significant amount of Muslim officers within the organisation.
09:06I'm the only Bangladeshi police officer in Bedfordshire Police, for example.
09:09We're out in a bar and you've got my number.
09:10You can contact us.
09:11It's okay.
09:11Certain parts of the community probably frown upon the fact that I'm a police officer.
09:15Because they feel that I've signed an oath to the Queen and some people aren't against British values.
09:21How are you?
09:22All right?
09:22But there was nothing that was going to stop me.
09:25Do you know what?
09:26Watching the bill and Tony, the area car driver, as he was known as the bill character, made me want to join the police service.
09:33And from there, I used to think, you know, one day I could lock away bad people and I could help people as well.
09:40Five years ago, Bedfordshire Police set up a department to deal solely with cases of honour-based violence.
09:49Honour is...
09:51How can I explain honour?
09:56How can I...
09:57I can't explain it.
09:58I can explain it in my cultural way.
09:59It's a...
10:01Not a strength is not the word.
10:04It's like a bond within the family.
10:08It's to do with the reputation.
10:10Reputation is the key.
10:11It's the key because you have such loyalty is the big word.
10:18Bringing shame on the family is seen as a really disrespectful thing.
10:23And it could lead, in the worst case scenario, to death.
10:27It's not something we want to be dealing with.
10:37The honour crime case has been handed to Sergeant Jim Kinnear and PC Simon Day.
10:45Tonight, they'll ask the suspect to give his account of the incident.
10:48That's her statement.
10:50I make this statement to the police in relation to an assault on myself by my father.
10:55My father and my family did not approve of my marriage.
10:58They've done everything possible to end it.
11:00My dad wanted me to stay at home and just cook and clean at home.
11:09That's it.
11:12Didn't go to college, didn't go to uni, never work.
11:16They were very strict.
11:17They were not very modern.
11:18I wanted to go out of work and make my life.
11:26I did tell my parents, my dad, that there's this guy I want to marry.
11:31But he didn't approve and he just flipped.
11:34They escaped from there.
11:37And then we got married.
11:38Both of my parents told me to pack my bags and leave my husband as they were taking me back to Luton.
11:46That time my husband was out, I was alone, I felt pressured, so I did what they asked me to do.
11:50I spoke to my sister in regards to the situation.
11:53I'm like, should I miss my husband and I wanted to see him?
11:56My father overheard the conversation.
11:59He says, who are you missing?
12:00And I told him I was talking about my husband.
12:03My father lost his temper.
12:04I was angry, shaking, grabbed an iron off the...
12:09Oh, it was an iron off the ironing bar.
12:10I thought it was an iron bar.
12:11It's an iron.
12:12He grabbed the iron and started beating me up, beating me up, hitting me, hitting me, hitting me.
12:17Then he strangled me, kicked me.
12:19I thought he was going to kill me that second.
12:21In front of my niece and nephew.
12:24She was saying that to my mum.
12:26I'm going to kill her, I'm going to kill her.
12:27She ruined our family name.
12:31I am aware my father will be arrested for the assault on me.
12:34But I do not want to go to court.
12:36If I return to Luton, I will be found, located by my family.
12:41I'm in fear of further assault and intimidation.
12:43I will not give evidence against my father.
12:46And we know of honour-based violence.
12:48We know where it leads.
12:50Often in the UK, it leads to sometimes murder, manslaughter and torture.
12:56Yep.
12:57So we know of what it's serious it can get.
13:00So where do we want to go with this?
13:02Well, we want to interview him, obviously.
13:05That'll be a good one for you as well.
13:06Yep, definitely.
13:07Yeah.
13:08HPV is always a good one to have on your belt.
13:10Yeah.
13:11All right?
13:11Okay.
13:11Right, crack on.
13:12Thanks, Art.
13:12The only thing about safeguarding that really worries me at the moment or concerns me about
13:28this girl is that I believe she's gone back to her address, whether the rest of the family
13:33knows where she's at.
13:35She has said she just wants to find somewhere safe now where she can no longer be located.
13:43Sorry.
13:44Do you want me to come back?
13:46You pray, yeah?
13:48Okay.
13:49No worries.
13:50You'll be back here soon anyway, sir.
13:52Well, we'll speak to this guy tonight and just see exactly what we can do with him.
13:59With the daughter unwilling to testify, the police must now try and probe whether her father's
14:04version of events stacks up.
14:06Have you ever been interviewed before?
14:20No, no.
14:21Never been arrested?
14:22No trouble, no nothing.
14:24Just my work.
14:25Even now, I am 60.
14:27Yeah.
14:28And I'm still on the building side doing laboring.
14:31Yes.
14:32And when I'm not working, I go up to the mosque.
14:34Because you take your religion very seriously.
14:37It gives me something to do to keep me in peace of mind.
14:42The first question is, are you responsible for causing injuries to your daughter?
14:50No.
14:51Okay.
14:52My daughter, I look after her for 26 years.
14:55After 26 years, she put me in trouble here.
14:58Okay.
14:58Because she is mentally ill.
15:01She's not mentally right.
15:02That's why I was guiding her all the time.
15:05And she was doing everything all right.
15:12There is some Pakistani gangs in Utah.
15:15Yeah.
15:16What happened to these people?
15:18They do, like my daughter, mentally ill, can't think for sale.
15:22What they do, they use them to get married because they have no legal status in this country.
15:29Do you think this man, her husband, is part of this gang?
15:33Of course, he is part of this gang.
15:35Okay.
15:37Passport finished two years ago.
15:39No legal, he can work.
15:43Take my daughter, taking her all money, and he's beating her all the time.
15:48He's beating her?
15:49Beating her all the time.
15:50In the Muslim world, when something like this happens, we think it's the biggest insult for us.
16:01Okay.
16:02A daughter married like that, that's the biggest insult to the family.
16:06Okay.
16:07If your daughters are getting married, you don't know, your wife don't know, your children don't know,
16:14do you think it's good or bad?
16:16No, I'd like to know.
16:19Yeah.
16:19Yeah, I'd like, of course.
16:20That's just, that's...
16:21Because I, you know, I say, that's the biggest insult to the Muslim world.
16:25Okay.
16:29Tell us what happened on the 27th.
16:33Yes.
16:34What she said.
16:35Yes, yeah.
16:35Well, what happened on the 27th?
16:37No, I mean, I mean, if you tell me what she said, then I can tell you why this is true or not true.
16:42Yeah.
16:43Can you tell me what happened?
16:46Well, it just got into an argument.
16:48Okay.
16:48What she's saying, I beat her with this and that.
16:51That's what these guys been beating her up.
16:53And I go up there and I pick her up in her room.
16:56So then what happened?
16:59Well, then nothing happened.
17:01Did anything happen at all?
17:02Any other arguments?
17:03Well, then after that, I go to sleep.
17:05I go in the morning, I get up, I go to work.
17:07Has anything happened between you?
17:10Anything physical?
17:12No, far as I know.
17:20I'll see you in a minute, then, yeah?
17:21I'll get you some...
17:22Uh, yeah, go on, go on.
17:24I'll take it for you.
17:28There you go, water.
17:29No worries.
17:33Have we got any, um, cloths?
17:38Cloth, he wants to wipe his toilet seat.
17:40It's, uh, disgusting.
17:47There you go.
17:49There's your tissues.
17:52And there's a bit of wet.
17:56All right.
17:56You've done what you had to do.
18:05And, uh, at least she's safe for tonight.
18:08They're gonna put her in a hostel or something for tonight.
18:10Ben Breakfast on a hostel.
18:12She's agreed to that for one night.
18:14Until we get him dealt with.
18:15Okay.
18:16Great.
18:47Morning. Hi. How are you doing?
18:51Asleep. Do you want to eat breakfast?
18:53Do you want to drink?
18:56No. Okay.
19:00M1, common assault on his nan.
19:03She's in her late 70s.
19:05Apparently it's not the first time he's assaulted her.
19:08Don't know how he'll be this morning, but he'll be off the court soon enough anyway.
19:13M3, he is harassment.
19:15They found, Hob said he was wanded and didn't have anything on him.
19:22Ash said he found a lighter on him.
19:24He said it was just tucked in his waistband.
19:26Hob has a feeling it was hidden in an orifice.
19:29He was intoxicated. He'll be fine now, I dare say.
19:32But anyway, he'll be out of your hair soon enough. No issues.
19:34Hair? Is that a joke?
19:37Out of his hair.
19:39He hasn't got any.
19:40I think that.
19:43M6.
19:45He's an honour-based violence job.
19:48A young girl, she married against her family's wishes.
19:53Same religion, but they didn't want her to marry him.
19:56So Dad took it upon himself to attack her with an iron.
19:59The daughter's file has now been passed to the force's dedicated honour-based violence department.
20:14I deal with the high-risk instances that come in, and I'm up to my ears.
20:25In the last six months, I've had roundabout 120 referrals made directly to me,
20:32and that's incidences of forced marriage or honour-abuse.
20:37OK, thanks, then. Bye-bye. Bye.
20:39The thing that makes me most angry about all of it is how can anybody treat their daughters like this?
20:54I've got a daughter.
20:56I can't imagine for one minute subjecting her to abuse.
21:03It's not honour, is it? It's dishonour.
21:06Honour is the wrong word for it.
21:09The severity of the case means it's been passed up to CID.
21:16PC Esther Morris will brief DC Rachel Chandler.
21:20Arranged marriage, or...?
21:21No.
21:22No, love marriage.
21:23And that marriage is all right?
21:24Yes, fine marriage.
21:26In the past, these cases weren't dealt with properly.
21:31People didn't speak about it.
21:33And when they did, a lot of the victims weren't believed.
21:36And we have to believe them.
21:38Don't have a choice. We have to believe them.
21:41You know, we have one chance.
21:43And that's a favourite saying amongst forced marriages and honour-abuse.
21:49One chance to get it right, to save these people.
21:53Otherwise it might be too late.
21:56Dad's beaten her with the iron.
21:58He's done this in front of a two-year-old and a six-year-old,
22:01her sister's children, and in front of the sisters and mum.
22:05None of them will make a statement.
22:09They will all side with the dad.
22:11What I find a little bit worrying is there's a warning marker
22:15for mental health and learning difficulties.
22:20I've contacted the mental health team,
22:23SEPT and social services, adult social services,
22:26and there is no issue with her mental health at all.
22:30She's got a worker there, a mental health worker or something there.
22:32No, she hasn't.
22:33There's nothing at all.
22:34There's nothing.
22:34They've got no record of that.
22:36They've got referrals from members of her family saying she's mental.
22:42Which comes into play with something else, actually.
22:44Apparently he was first account interviewed last night.
22:48Father turns around and says, it's a pack of lies.
22:51She's mental.
22:52She's mental.
22:52No, she's not.
22:53She is not mental.
22:54When did they get Nick then?
22:55When did they get Nick then?
22:571928 last night.
22:59We'd better get on with it then, don't we?
23:00Because of time.
23:01To me, Mr. Giles Ramon.
23:01Yeah.
23:02Yeah.
23:03Cheers, guys.
23:05If you could do the MG3 for me, please, Andy.
23:07If you can start...
23:08What?
23:09That's fine.
23:09Ted T.
23:10Can you start typing it?
23:11MG3?
23:12I've heard this about you, Rachel.
23:13You get real enough to do the job.
23:14Well, you've got all that.
23:16Here?
23:17Yeah.
23:17Yes, all that, though.
23:18Yeah, if you can start scanning it all for me so I'm ready to get a CPS.
23:20If you go and do the interview...
23:22No, I'm not scanning.
23:23I'm a victim.
23:24You can plug a right off.
23:28I'd be disappointed if he's not remanded.
23:30Ten minutes on my death.
23:33Hey, you've been sunbedding again.
23:34No.
23:35No, a bottle.
23:36Is it out of a bottle, your tan, is it?
23:39Yeah.
23:39That's a pleasure.
23:41Oh, they're nice and white.
23:48A lot of based violence crime is a good crime to investigate.
24:06It's got lots of different aspects around it.
24:08You've got to make sure you cover every single angle.
24:12I feel so sorry for the victim.
24:14Obviously, I've been brought up in a different background
24:16and I'm not aware all this goes on.
24:19It's only going.
24:22DC Chandler's goal is to remand the suspect in custody
24:25in the hope that his family will feel safe enough
24:28to give evidence against him.
24:3424 hours isn't long,
24:35especially when you need to get the victim's statements,
24:38the offender's interview, all other aspects of it.
24:42You do need further time.
24:44I'm trying to get on with this.
24:52It is frustrating, but I like the pace of it.
24:54It's a challenge to get a charging decision within that time.
24:58So, why have you got to do a second interview?
25:00No, I told you that can be.
25:02I know why I've got to do it, don't worry.
25:03All right.
25:09Rach, from an evidential point of view,
25:11did we recover the iron that she was hit with?
25:13No.
25:14No?
25:15Simon Hancock is DC Chandler's superior officer.
25:19Don't underestimate Rachel Chandler for, on the face of it,
25:23how she talks.
25:24Bothering!
25:26Behind that, there is a very intelligent person.
25:30She is actually waiting to go on to the major crime unit
25:33that deal with murders, kidnapping, child deaths, stuff like that.
25:39She's got what we call the investigative mindset.
25:43But you'd have thought you would have recovered the iron.
25:46You'd have thought so, wouldn't you, for tests.
25:49Well, you'd have recovered it as well, because it's evidence.
25:51Yeah.
25:53And then they could look at the size of the iron plate
25:55to see about injuries and stuff, if it comes down to it, couldn't they?
25:57It's a consideration, isn't it?
26:04It is, Rachel.
26:05Oh, we came round to see about, um,
26:08the incident that happened with your sister yesterday.
26:12Oh, really?
26:13Are you willing to give a statement to the police?
26:15Um, I do, but I don't think it's why I've turned them off.
26:22You're willing to go to court to say that, are you?
26:25I'm willing to go to court.
26:26Ten past six.
26:27Yeah, if you give a statement, you can be called to court.
26:31Yeah, you know what, I don't really...
26:32Two minutes...
26:33OK, thank you.
26:35Thanks, bye.
26:38I just had a call from one of her sisters,
26:39and she's saying that, um, on Friday at nine o'clock,
26:44she had a phone call from the victim
26:46saying, well, my husband's beating me up,
26:49and she put her mum on conference call and said,
26:51can you come and get me?
26:52So, neither do I.
26:53But they've all been talking now, haven't they, and discussed...
26:56Yeah, don't believe her.
26:57Why would she do that to her?
26:58Because, um, the dad is such an influence on them.
27:11Who do you want to ring?
27:12My sergeant has asked if you can be interviewed
27:16before you can ring your wife.
27:18Because it's a family issue,
27:19we need you to be interviewed first.
27:22Hiya.
27:42Hiya, my name's Rachel.
27:44I'm a detective at Luton Police Station.
27:47Hiya, you all right?
27:48There's been a breakthrough in the investigation.
27:51The suspect's daughter has accepted protection
27:53as a significant witness.
27:56She will now testify against her father.
28:01I'm trying to keep him at the police station,
28:03but I will let you know, okay?
28:05Okay, that's excellent.
28:06If you keep this number,
28:07and I'll give you a call
28:08and let you know what's happening.
28:09Is that all right?
28:11Bye-bye.
28:12The suspect has been in custody for 15 hours.
28:28So far, he's refused the offer of a lawyer.
28:30Okay, so that's why I'm asking,
28:33do you want to solicit her?
28:35We're offering you free legal advice.
28:38Can you see?
28:39Okay, let me sort that out for you, okay?
28:41I'm going to go and sort that out for you now, okay?
28:43Okay.
28:43The central mosque in Luton
29:01has learnt of the suspect's arrest.
29:04Its president has asked for a meeting
29:05with the police's community cohesion inspector, Hob-Hoc.
29:11Within the Muslim community,
29:12they don't want to almost trouble the police
29:14to an extent.
29:17The Muslim community like to
29:19kind of go to the mosque leaders
29:21or faith leaders
29:22before coming to the police
29:24to try and resolve their situation.
29:28Hi, as-salamu alaykum, you all right?
29:30Did you shoot?
29:30You all right?
29:31Inspector Hock.
29:33How are you?
29:33All right, alhamdulillah.
29:34I've been...
29:35Alhamdulillah, we wanted to meet you
29:37for a little while, actually, so...
29:38You're welcome.
29:39Okay.
29:39You know, he's...
29:44He's been in this mosque for the last 20 years now.
29:48Okay.
29:50He's, you know, he prays there.
29:53Mostly he comes in the evenings or weekends.
29:55You know, he's there.
29:57He seems a very good person.
29:59What the wife told me,
30:00this is a story.
30:02My husband never beat my daughter.
30:04This is all a lie.
30:05They framed him up.
30:06That's what she said, yeah.
30:07There's a great concern in the community.
30:11The guys come in from abroad,
30:14especially, you know, on visit visas.
30:16They come here,
30:18and they pray on our girls.
30:21You know, when the girls go out,
30:23they make them friends.
30:25Then they tell them they love them.
30:27They show them that they're millionaires,
30:29so and so.
30:30And they trap them, yeah.
30:32And then they marry them for the reason
30:34to stay in the country.
30:36Country.
30:37This has happened in our community a lot, yeah.
30:40A lot.
30:41But as a...
30:42I have five daughters as well, yeah.
30:46If something happens like that,
30:47I won't like it either, yeah.
30:49You know,
30:50I've given choice to my daughters
30:52wherever they want to get married.
30:54Not the guys, you know,
30:56coming as a visit visa.
30:58You know,
30:58you go to check on the guy.
31:00Was he a visitor before he go married?
31:02Yes.
31:02Then he's framed up.
31:06The girl's father is well known.
31:08I know you're talking about framed up a lot here,
31:10but the police are duty-bound
31:11to investigate it impartially,
31:12and they'll look at the vulnerability
31:14of this victim, for example.
31:16You know,
31:16they will do everything possible
31:18to get the best evidence from her.
31:35Part of the father's story
31:37has proved to be true.
31:39The immigration records of his son-in-law
31:41have been checked.
31:44I know that he's here illegally,
31:45and they are looking to support him,
31:47so that could be the case.
31:48But just because he's here illegally
31:49doesn't mean that he's assaulted her.
31:52OK.
31:52And when you were at home
31:55when your dad came to get you,
31:56your husband wasn't there, was he?
31:59He's gone now.
32:00OK, that's excellent.
32:01From speaking to her,
32:02I don't think she has got mental health issues.
32:04I think she's just a vulnerable girl
32:05who's not streetwise.
32:07Bye-bye.
32:09I think she is in love with him
32:11and she's generally married him
32:12because she wants to be with him.
32:14Whether he feels the same about her,
32:15I don't know.
32:18There are several other instances.
32:29Esther Morris has discovered
32:31that the daughter says
32:32her father has assaulted her
32:33on more than one occasion.
32:34She disclosed that she'd been assaulted
32:37by her father on the 14th of the 3rd.
32:40He had slapped her around the face
32:42after she'd gone into his room
32:43to talk to him, informing him
32:45that she wanted to get married.
32:49She's alleged abuse
32:50between 2004 and 2012.
32:55He regularly hits her
32:56and abuses her.
33:07Esther Morris has now spoken
33:09to the police force
33:10that's looking after the daughter
33:11as a significant witness.
33:13And she's actually said to them
33:16that she was under threat
33:19to go back.
33:21Dad actually said to her,
33:22if you don't come back with us
33:23you're going to get your head to back.
33:24Can we get that in a state, can they?
33:25Yeah.
33:26I don't know if you want to give them a ring
33:28if you carry more bones.
33:31Hi, is that Simon?
33:33Simon, it's DC Chandler
33:34from Bedfordshire Police.
33:36We've got a prisoner in custody at the moment
33:38and offensive kidnap's been disclosed
33:41and then the kidnap's happened in your area.
33:43Now an allegation of kidnap's been made,
33:46the chances of charging
33:47and remanding the suspect have strengthened.
33:50But I just need a couple of lines
33:51and a statement
33:52saying that she got in the car with him
33:55because her dad's threatened her
33:56which I haven't got in the statement already.
33:59The problem is
34:00I'm on a tight clock.
34:03Thank you, bye.
34:06He goes, oh, you're a star
34:07dealing with it for me.
34:11So what are you going to see a guest
34:13for kidnap?
34:13For kidnap and assault.
34:14I think that's still a good tactic
34:16to put it to CPS anyway
34:17and let them underwrite the decision.
34:19We've got to.
34:20I'm going to protect her.
34:21Since she's killed
34:22then at least we've tried.
34:34The suspect's solicitor has arrived
34:36and we'll be sitting in
34:38on DC Chandler's interview.
34:40At this time
34:41I am going to further arrest you for kidnap
34:43OK, so do not have to say anything
34:45but it may harm an offence.
34:47If not mention
34:47when questions set up
34:48you're later in line in court
34:49anything you do say
34:50you may be given in evidence.
34:54I need to ask you
34:55before we start the interview
34:56are you responsible
34:58for the offence of ABH?
35:00No, go.
35:01Are you responsible
35:02for the offence of kidnap?
35:04No, go.
35:05If an offender goes no comment
35:08in an interview
35:09I look at it as if
35:10they've sent them to hide
35:12whether they've committed the offence
35:13or there's aspects around it
35:15which is likely to put them
35:16in the situation
35:17and being involved in the offence.
35:19With no comment
35:19it does raise suspicion levels.
35:22We've spoken to your daughter.
35:25She said that
35:26you and your wife
35:27told her
35:28to leave her husband
35:29and to come back to Luton
35:31and to pack her bags.
35:32Why was that said?
35:34No, go.
35:35Did you threaten to assault her
35:37if she did not come back to Luton?
35:39You're laughing.
35:40Why are you laughing?
35:42Is that funny?
35:45Or is she making that up
35:46and that's why you're laughing?
35:56She told her sister
35:57how much she's missing her husband
35:58and how much she wanted
36:00to go back to him.
36:02How did you react to this?
36:04You weren't happy, were you?
36:07You got angry.
36:08You started shaking with rage.
36:10You were that angry.
36:12Why do you not want her
36:13to go back to this husband?
36:16Do you want to have control of her?
36:19Do you scare her
36:21so you have got control of her?
36:28If I show you some photos
36:32of your daughter
36:33the first photo
36:35is showing her face
36:36so you can see
36:37all the reddening around there.
36:39Have you caused that?
36:42Was she like that
36:43when you picked her up?
36:45The answer to that question
36:46would be no
36:46because you've told us
36:48that you picked her up
36:49and she had no injuries.
36:50So those injuries
36:54must have been caused
36:55since she came back
36:56and she was in your house
36:57weren't they?
37:02How hard did you hit her?
37:07Are you embarrassed by her?
37:11Does she cause problems
37:12to your family?
37:14Do people look down
37:15at you and your family
37:16because of her?
37:19Her marrying this man
37:20that you don't know
37:21does that cause problems
37:23for you in the community?
37:27Okay.
37:29Is there anything
37:29you have to say
37:30before I turn the tapes off?
37:32Is there anyone
37:33I can speak to
37:33which will just prove
37:34your involvement
37:35in the events of ABH
37:37or kidnap?
37:39Okay.
37:40If there's nothing else
37:41you want to say
37:41the time is now
37:4312.14
37:44and you'll be concluded.
37:46DC Rachel Chandler
38:04is waiting to hear
38:06from the Crown Prosecution Service.
38:10Kathy, are you making tea?
38:12No!
38:12I can't get up
38:13and leave the phone
38:13because there's no GPS phone.
38:14Strange, isn't it?
38:15Can you hear the phone
38:16ring over there, Sarge?
38:18I should think
38:18you can hear the phone
38:19ring from the town centre.
38:20There's no reason
38:20why she can't get the kettle on.
38:24She wants to convince
38:25the CPS
38:26to remand the suspect
38:27to prison
38:27and charge him
38:29with kidnap.
38:32Hello, rubbery.
38:35Hi.
38:36It is.
38:36All very outstanding, obviously.
38:41In our view,
38:43the mum and the sister,
38:46obviously we've got problems
38:47at the moment
38:47with them providing evidence
38:48because obviously
38:49he's going to go home.
38:50If obviously he's remanded
38:51and he's locked up,
38:52there is potentially
38:53those statements
38:54which we can get that way.
38:57But obviously there's
38:58risks to the victim.
39:00It would be very,
39:02very difficult to prove
39:03the kidnap side of things.
39:06I'm not going to charge it today
39:08because what I'm going to do,
39:10I'm going to say he's bailable
39:11because of the full code test.
39:14Is he saying
39:15they don't believe
39:16we're about the kidnap side of things?
39:18Let me just speak to him.
39:21Hello?
39:22Oh, it's DS Hancock.
39:23Are you all right?
39:24Am I right in thinking
39:26then that what we're saying is
39:28is that the complainant,
39:29we don't really believe
39:30what she's saying.
39:34What she's saying is
39:36is that against her will,
39:38she was taken to Luton.
39:41Based on what's happened
39:42in the past,
39:44she perceived that to be
39:45that if she didn't do it,
39:47she'd face harm.
39:50Yes.
39:51That's a kidnap made out,
39:52isn't it?
39:54No, let's take it a stage at a time
39:56because I really don't understand that.
39:57So if I say to somebody
39:58get in my fucking car
39:59otherwise I'm going to
40:00smash your face in
40:01and they get in my car,
40:03that does not constitute fraud
40:05under a kidnap legislation.
40:06Is that what we're saying?
40:09My perspective,
40:10and I do mean this,
40:11is making sure
40:12that justice is seen to be done
40:15and that the victim of crime
40:16gets looked after
40:18and protected
40:19in a way that
40:20I would want
40:21one of my family members
40:23to be looked after
40:24and protected.
40:26Well, would you not then?
40:27So if somebody pulled up
40:28next to you
40:29and said,
40:29get in my car
40:30otherwise I'm going to shoot you.
40:32Yeah.
40:37So what I'm asking you to do
40:38is just be specific
40:39about what point of the kidnap
40:40you don't feel as though
40:41we've demonstrated
40:43under the lower threshold test.
40:46Why not?
40:46At the end of the day,
40:56I'm sure we're singing
40:57from the same hymn sheet
40:58in the honour-based violence
41:00cases are very delicate
41:02and sensitive.
41:05And, well,
41:05as you'll appreciate,
41:07the evidence gathering
41:08is frustrating sometimes
41:09when the head of the family
41:11is exactly.
41:15So I would hope
41:16that we would stand up
41:16and say there is
41:17a very real
41:19and evident danger
41:20to the complainant,
41:22to the complainant's husband,
41:24to the police
41:26not being able
41:27to secure the evidence
41:28to prove one way
41:29or the other
41:30who's telling the truth
41:31in this case.
41:33I know where you're coming from.
41:35There's an argument
41:36from both sides,
41:37but let's have that in court.
41:38I think from a prosecution
41:43point of view,
41:44we should be protecting
41:45the complainant
41:46and the investigation.
41:51No problem.
41:52What was your name?
41:54Andrew.
41:54Simon, by the way.
41:56Thanks for the chat.
41:56I'll put you back
41:57on to Rachel.
41:57Bye.
41:59Hiya.
42:06We don't know
42:07where this guy is.
42:08He might not realise
42:09what an inflammatory
42:09town Luton is
42:10for this sort of,
42:11you know...
42:12Why don't you say to him,
42:13get in my fucking car now.
42:14I'm going to beat you up.
42:15You'll be all right.
42:16You'll get away with it.
42:17He seems like quite...
42:19He seems like quite...
42:20At least you can...
42:21You know,
42:21he seems like quite a nice chap.
42:26The CPS will call back
42:28when they've reached a decision.
42:31Cathy.
42:33Yes, all right.
42:33I'll put the kettle on.
42:36You're going to murder her?
42:37Oh, mate.
42:38Don't you...
42:39Don't stop blinking
42:40your eyelids at me.
42:42Show me your wobblies.
42:47Hiya.
42:48Wait a minute.
42:49Where's Hank?
42:49Can you phone Hank
42:50urgently?
42:51Whenever we call CPS now,
42:53we always get Manchester.
42:56You're the best.
42:57We'll decide if you're the best
42:59in a minute
43:00after this phone call.
43:01Wait a minute.
43:02Andy.
43:03Andy, are you all right?
43:05Are you all right?
43:05Oh, no, it's...
43:15And thanks for reconsidering it.
43:23That's brilliant.
43:24Thanks.
43:25He needs an MG7.
43:26I'll just do an MG7 now.
43:28Okay, we'll do.
43:31Okay.
43:34Yep, he re-read it
43:35and he's, um, convinced.
43:50I'm going to charge.
43:51Yeah.
43:52Yeah.
43:52Three offences.
43:55So what are they going...
43:57What are they going for then?
44:00Kidnap.
44:00Wow.
44:02Aviation commonsault.
44:08Okay, you're charging
44:09a following offences.
44:10You don't have to say anything,
44:11but it may harm the offences.
44:12If not mentioned now,
44:13something which may later rely on in court.
44:15Anything you do say,
44:16may be given an evidence.
44:19Kidnap.
44:19Actual bodily harm.
44:23Common assault.
44:26Do you want to say anything
44:27to those charges?
44:29No?
44:29Okay.
44:30In this case,
44:31I've made an assumption
44:32that if I allow you
44:33to leave this custody,
44:34you're going to interfere
44:36with this witness,
44:37that is your daughter,
44:38okay,
44:39and or commit further offences,
44:41okay?
44:42Why would I make more trouble?
44:44I don't know.
44:44People do it all the time.
44:46Kidnap is a very serious offence.
44:49So what more are you capable of doing?
44:52Personally,
44:52we don't want to find out.
44:54Okay?
44:54Sorry?
45:03How's it going there?
45:04What's your name?
45:05DC Chandler.
45:06Yeah, DC.
45:08Chandler.
45:09Chandler, yeah.
45:09I am underestimated sometimes.
45:11I am switched on,
45:13and I do know what's going on out there.
45:14Why am I going to make more trouble?
45:16I'm already in big trouble.
45:17Why am I making more trouble?
45:18People do.
45:19People get charged with things,
45:21and they go out,
45:23and they interfere with things,
45:24which is why you're getting kept here.
45:26But, Martin,
45:26maybe you're getting a lot of misadustaining.
45:28I'm not...
45:29At any day,
45:29you're staying here, okay?
45:31Okay, do you want to pop your shoes off?
45:35I hope if he has done it,
45:36then he is convicted,
45:37because I want to make sure
45:38that that girl is safe,
45:39and she can get on,
45:40and live with her life,
45:41and be happy.
45:42Thank you, Martin.
46:12You can't forget
46:15what has happened to you,
46:17no matter what.
46:19How has it changed you as a person?
46:23Well,
46:23I lost everything.
46:26Everything's...
46:28I'm alone now,
46:29so I just have a husband,
46:30don't have anyone else,
46:31no family, nothing.
46:34They hate me.
46:37I've been disowned.
46:42The new series is from St. George's,
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47:08It's Thursday at 9,
47:10and catch up now with 4OD.
47:13Next up tonight,
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47:17Join Jimmy Carr.