Ted Cruz Leads Senate Commerce Committee Hearing On Ending Daylight Saving Time

4/10/2025

The Senate Commerce Committee held a hearing on Thursday on daylight saving time.

Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:

https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript

Stay Connected
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com

Transcript

00:00:00Good morning, everyone. Welcome back, Senator Scott. Good to see you.

00:00:06The Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation will come to order.

00:00:10Twice a year, we find ourselves adjusting our clocks, shifting an hour of daylight forward in the spring,

00:00:17springing forward, and falling back in the fall.

00:00:20For many Americans, this biannual ritual is a minor inconvenience, something we endure without giving it much thought.

00:00:28But when we take a closer look at the implications of changing the clocks,

00:00:33its impact on our economy, our health, and our everyday lives,

00:00:37we can see that this practice is more than an annoyance.

00:00:41First, let's talk about energy savings, which has long been the most common justification for daylight savings time.

00:00:48The original idea behind daylight savings time was to reduce energy consumption

00:00:52by making better use of daylight during the longer days of summer.

00:00:56The idea was simple.

00:00:58Fewer hours of darkness meant less electricity consumption for lighting and heating.

00:01:04This concept might have made sense in the early 20th century,

00:01:07when our economy and our homes relied much more heavily on energy consumption tied to daylight hours.

00:01:14Today, the data show energy savings from daylight savings time are de minimis, if not entirely non-existent.

00:01:23Advances in technology, particularly in lighting and climate control,

00:01:27and increased domestic energy production have drastically reduced the relative price of energy compared to the past.

00:01:35Changing clocks biannually impacts our health.

00:01:40Research has shown that the abrupt shift in time, especially the spring transition,

00:01:44when we lose an hour of sleep, disrupts our internal circadian rhythms, and causes sleep deprivation.

00:01:52This leads to increased risks of health problems, including higher rates of heart attacks, strokes,

00:01:58and even car accidents immediately following the time change.

00:02:03In fact, studies have shown that there is a spike in workplace injuries and fatal car crashes

00:02:08during the days after we shift our clocks forward.

00:02:12The disruption to sleep patterns and the resultant fatigue

00:02:15can have consequences on our productivity, mental health, and well-being.

00:02:23The time change is also an inconvenience for families.

00:02:27For parents, especially those with young children,

00:02:31adjusting to the time change is no simple task.

00:02:33Sleep disruptions can result in cranky children, restless nights,

00:02:38and a difficult adjustment period that can last for weeks.

00:02:42We also need to consider the economic and social impact.

00:02:46There are arguments that longer daylight hours in the evening

00:02:49can boost economic activity in certain sectors,

00:02:53such as retail, tourism, and entertainment.

00:02:56For instance, late afternoon golf leagues

00:02:59account for up to 40% of the annual revenue of some courses,

00:03:04while a majority of golf instructors reported

00:03:07that nearly 50% of their lessons are taught after 4 p.m.

00:03:12A golf course would lose an estimated $500,000 annually

00:03:17if it lost the extra hour of daylight in the summer.

00:03:21Of course, the early birds, who like 7 a.m. tea times,

00:03:25might be a bit annoyed with this shift.

00:03:27Many states and countries like Mexico and Russia and Turkey

00:03:32have already taken steps to move away

00:03:34from changing clocks twice a year.

00:03:37Hawaii and Arizona have opted out of the practice,

00:03:40and other countries in the past 10 years

00:03:42have either abolished it or are in the process of doing so.

00:03:46Congress has the authority to end this outdated and harmful practice.

00:03:51This hearing is an excellent opportunity

00:03:53to examine a thoughtful and rational approach

00:03:56to how we manage time.

00:03:58Whether we lock the clock on standard time year-round

00:04:02or on daylight savings time,

00:04:05let's think carefully about our health,

00:04:09our economy, and well-being,

00:04:11and embrace a sensible approach to time management.

00:04:14And I'll now turn to Senator Blunt-Rochester for her opening.

00:04:19Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this important hearing.

00:04:24In our increasingly connected world,

00:04:27it's more important than ever that we're thoughtful

00:04:30about what it would mean to pick a permanent time for our country.

00:04:34The Senate has tried this before,

00:04:37but the bill stalled as this body took a harder look

00:04:41at how time changes work state by state.

00:04:44What works in my home state of Delaware

00:04:46may not work in Washington state.

00:04:49But I know I speak for many Americans

00:04:51when I say it's time, it's time to figure this out.

00:04:57People across our country are tired of the constant cycle

00:05:01of falling back and springing forward.

00:05:04I mean, who hasn't forgotten to change their clock

00:05:07on their microwave?

00:05:08I think mine is still on the wrong time.

00:05:11And felt the immediate panic of waking up late for work.

00:05:16Or think about the parents of young children and pet owners

00:05:19who have to adjust sleep and feeding schedules twice a year.

00:05:24Some would say that these are just inconveniences.

00:05:28But the back and forth between daylight savings time

00:05:31and standard time needs to change and needs to stop.

00:05:36We need to stop the clock.

00:05:38We need to find a solution and stick with it.

00:05:42Many states across our nation have started

00:05:45to consider legislation to pick a permanent time.

00:05:48Some, like Delaware, have pushed for keeping

00:05:51daylight saving time.

00:05:53The time we're in right now, permanently.

00:05:57Others have sought to keep the standard time.

00:06:00When we fall back, permanently.

00:06:03But here's the thing.

00:06:05These twice yearly time changes have real impacts on real people.

00:06:10We know that changing the clock disrupts sleep,

00:06:13which can lead to negative health outcomes.

00:06:16Several studies have noted issues with mood disturbances,

00:06:20increased hospital admissions,

00:06:22and even heart attacks and strokes.

00:06:25We also know that being able to see the sun improves mental

00:06:29and physical health as well.

00:06:31But more than that, time changes can impact the safety of our communities.

00:06:36Darker commuting times increase the risk of injuries

00:06:40and even death on our way to school or work.

00:06:43My home state has one of the highest per capita rates of pedestrian fatalities.

00:06:50And dark roads with tired drivers make it more dangerous for pedestrians.

00:06:54The important thing is that we land on something consistent

00:06:58and make smart investments to keep people safe.

00:07:03For example, there were programs that we authorized

00:07:06in the bipartisan infrastructure law

00:07:08that focused on common sense safety improvements.

00:07:11But they are set to expire this Congress.

00:07:14I hope the committee will keep this discussion in mind

00:07:18when it comes time to reauthorize these infrastructure investments.

00:07:22Investments that could keep light,

00:07:24or that could light up dark streets,

00:07:27add rumble strips to medians,

00:07:29turn chaotic intersections into roundabouts and more.

00:07:33These are the kinds of smart policy choices

00:07:35we can make to protect people year-round,

00:07:38regardless of whether it is daylight saving time

00:07:42or standard time.

00:07:44But the first step is getting us all on the same page.

00:07:48I'm looking forward to today's conversation

00:07:50about the competing health, safety, and economic impacts

00:07:54of choosing a permanent time for our communities

00:07:57and moving the ball forward on this important issue.

00:08:01Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:08:02And I turn it back to you.

00:08:05Thank you, Senator Blunt-Rochester.

00:08:07And I have to say, I think you've set a land speed record

00:08:09for moving from the chair on the end all the way here.

00:08:13And I'll just say, Senator Cantwell probably needs to watch her back.

00:08:18And I am somewhat disappointed in your excellent remarks

00:08:22that we did not get you belting out the chorus of shares

00:08:27if we could turn back time.

00:08:28I told you, it is something that peps us up.

00:08:33We need the energy.

00:08:35Joining us today is our friend Senator Rick Scott

00:08:38from the Sunshine State

00:08:40to give remarks on his legislation,

00:08:43the Sunshine Protection Act.

00:08:44Senator Scott, welcome back to the Commerce Committee.

00:08:47First off, Senator Cruz, thank you for the opportunity.

00:08:51And Senator Blunt-Rochester,

00:08:53you've done a better job keeping your sweetness

00:08:54in this committee also that I was able to.

00:08:59Thanks for the introduction.

00:09:00The invitation introduced by Bill,

00:09:01the Sunshine Protection Act,

00:09:02to finally lock the clock.

00:09:04Senator Cruz, I know you're mourning.

00:09:07It's been a tough week for you

00:09:08with the NCAA championship.

00:09:11I do look forward to the-

00:09:12Your time has expired.

00:09:13All right.

00:09:17My bipartisan bike arm was Sunshine Protection Act.

00:09:20It will end the twice-yearly time change

00:09:22and make daylight savings time

00:09:24the national year-round standard.

00:09:26I have the support of 17 of my colleagues

00:09:28here in the Senate

00:09:29and a House companion led by my friend,

00:09:30Congressman Verne Buchanan

00:09:32from the great state of Florida.

00:09:33I'm sure all of us have heard

00:09:35from our constituents on this.

00:09:37The American people are sick and tired

00:09:38of changing their clocks twice a year.

00:09:40It's confusing, unnecessary,

00:09:42and completely outdated.

00:09:44It's an understatement to say

00:09:45that our nation has changed

00:09:46since the United States began

00:09:47changing the clock over a century ago.

00:09:50For example, American households

00:09:51have electricity now.

00:09:53We also have self-driving cars,

00:09:54computers, and cell phones.

00:09:56Now, changing the clocks twice a year

00:09:58proves more of an annoyance to families

00:09:59than a benefit to them.

00:10:01In 2018, when I was governor of Florida,

00:10:03I signed legislation that would allow

00:10:05the state to opt out of the practice

00:10:06of changing the time.

00:10:07And nearly two dozen other states

00:10:10have done the same,

00:10:11pending federal approval

00:10:12that will come by passing

00:10:13the Sunshine Protection Act.

00:10:16The American people love

00:10:16having an extra hour of sunlight,

00:10:18especially in my state of Florida,

00:10:20where that means more time

00:10:21you can enjoy outdoors

00:10:22and activities with families.

00:10:25Studies also show the potential

00:10:26for reduced cardiac issues,

00:10:28stroke, and seasonal depression,

00:10:29reduced robberies,

00:10:31benefits to the agricultural

00:10:32and overall economy

00:10:33with an extra hour of sunlight.

00:10:34This is a common-sense change

00:10:36to simplify and benefit

00:10:38the lives of Americans.

00:10:39And we have a great opportunity

00:10:40to finally get this done

00:10:41with President Trump on board

00:10:43to lock the clock.

00:10:45I want to thank the committee

00:10:46for the consideration

00:10:47of the Sunshine Protection Act.

00:10:48I'm optimistic

00:10:49we can get this passed,

00:10:52sign in the law,

00:10:52and finally lock the clock.

00:10:54Thank you, Senator Scott.

00:10:59You are welcome to stay

00:11:01if you like,

00:11:02but I know you have

00:11:02a busy schedule,

00:11:03so if you need to attend

00:11:04to other responsibilities,

00:11:05you certainly can do so.

00:11:10And the game was great,

00:11:11except for the final minute.

00:11:13I would have liked to lock the clock

00:11:14with one minute remaining.

00:11:16That would have been

00:11:17an excellent idea.

00:11:19Our first witness this morning

00:11:21is Scott Yates,

00:11:22the founder of the

00:11:22Lock the Clock movement.

00:11:23Mr. Yates started the movement

00:11:25to remove the biannual chore

00:11:27of changing the clock.

00:11:29Our second witness is Jay Karin.

00:11:31He is the CEO

00:11:32of the National Golf Course

00:11:34Owners Association,

00:11:35where he represents

00:11:36thousands of golf course owners

00:11:38across the country.

00:11:39Our third witness today

00:11:40is Dr. Karin Johnson,

00:11:42a practicing sleep medicine physician

00:11:44and professor of neurology

00:11:46at the University of Massachusetts

00:11:48Chan School of Medicine,

00:11:49Bay State.

00:11:50She is here on behalf

00:11:51of the American Academy

00:11:53of Sleep Medicine.

00:11:54Our final witness

00:11:55is Dr. David Harkey.

00:11:57Dr. Harkey is the president

00:11:58of the Insurance Institute

00:12:00for Highway Safety,

00:12:02which is an organization

00:12:03dedicated to reducing deaths,

00:12:05injuries,

00:12:06and property damage

00:12:07from motor vehicle crashes.

00:12:10Mr. Yates,

00:12:10you may give your opening statement.

00:12:13Thank you so much,

00:12:14Chairman Cruz,

00:12:14ranking member of Blunt Rochester

00:12:16and members

00:12:17of the United States

00:12:18Commerce Committee.

00:12:19Thank you for inviting me here today.

00:12:22Allow me to start

00:12:23with a hypothetical.

00:12:24Imagine two people

00:12:26commit the exact same crime

00:12:28on the exact same day,

00:12:30and they are the same

00:12:31in every way,

00:12:32but today one of them

00:12:33is out of prison,

00:12:34and one of them

00:12:35remains behind bars.

00:12:37What is the difference?

00:12:38The second man

00:12:39was sentenced on the Monday

00:12:40after we spring forward

00:12:42into daylight saving time.

00:12:44Researchers at the University

00:12:45of Washington reviewed

00:12:46every criminal sentence

00:12:47handed down in America

00:12:48over an 11-year period

00:12:49and found the single

00:12:50harshest day of sentencing

00:12:51of the whole year

00:12:52was that Monday in March

00:12:53when judges,

00:12:55like all of us,

00:12:55had been jolted awake

00:12:56an hour earlier

00:12:57than their bodies

00:12:57had been expecting.

00:12:59That one seemingly harmless

00:13:00government mandate,

00:13:02dialing our clocks back

00:13:03one hour,

00:13:04means some people

00:13:04receive harsher sentences

00:13:05than they otherwise would.

00:13:08The harm doesn't stop there.

00:13:09Both of your opening statements

00:13:11alluded to all of the problems

00:13:12that we have,

00:13:13and peer-reviewed studies

00:13:14consistently show

00:13:14that heart attacks go up,

00:13:15strokes, car crashes,

00:13:17even miscarriages spike

00:13:18in those days

00:13:18following the spring switch.

00:13:20A study from the University

00:13:21of Vienna found

00:13:22deaths overall

00:13:23just increased by 3%

00:13:25in those couple of days

00:13:26after the change.

00:13:27Medical errors go up,

00:13:29diabetics lose glucose control,

00:13:31crime goes up.

00:13:32Just yesterday,

00:13:33the journal Neurology

00:13:34published a report

00:13:35saying that more people

00:13:35get migraines

00:13:36in the days after

00:13:37the time change.

00:13:38And why do we do this?

00:13:40For the farmers?

00:13:41No.

00:13:42The story about the farmers

00:13:43was always just a myth.

00:13:44It was created as a PR stunt

00:13:45by a retailer in Boston

00:13:47who wanted more daylight

00:13:48for shoppers to have

00:13:49more time to shop.

00:13:50He thought it would sound better

00:13:51if we said it was for the farmers.

00:13:53If changing the time

00:13:55twice a year is so deadly

00:13:56and such an outdated relic,

00:13:58why haven't we fixed it yet?

00:14:01It's probably because

00:14:02of this issue we face

00:14:03about whether we should

00:14:04lock into permanent daylight

00:14:05or permanent standard time.

00:14:07I've seen countless polls

00:14:08and I've talked to thousands

00:14:09of people about this.

00:14:10Most people don't actually

00:14:11prefer one or the other

00:14:12that much.

00:14:13They just want to stop

00:14:14the switching.

00:14:15There are valid arguments

00:14:16for either permanent choice.

00:14:18So what should Congress do?

00:14:19What should this committee do?

00:14:20My name is Scott Yates.

00:14:21I've been reading, writing,

00:14:23and testifying about this

00:14:24for nearly a decade

00:14:25and I have this recommendation.

00:14:27Lock the clock,

00:14:28as this bill says,

00:14:29but after a two-year implementation.

00:14:32If we wait until 2027,

00:14:35we'll continue to allow states

00:14:37to opt out and opt into standard time

00:14:39just as Hawaii

00:14:40and most of Arizona have done.

00:14:42This is fundamentally

00:14:44a states' rights issue

00:14:45and a geography issue.

00:14:47Consider Indiana.

00:14:50Indianapolis is roughly

00:14:51the same latitude

00:14:52as New York City,

00:14:53but about 700 miles west.

00:14:55For Congress to force Hoosiers

00:14:56to walk, to go to work

00:14:58and school in the dark

00:14:59only to accommodate barbecues

00:15:01in New York City seems rude.

00:15:03But as the Commerce Committee,

00:15:05you do have an interest

00:15:06in promoting a stable

00:15:07and predictable environment

00:15:08for commerce.

00:15:10That's why I suggest Congress

00:15:11establish a firm date, 2027,

00:15:13to permanently end

00:15:14the clock changing nationwide.

00:15:16States would then have ample time

00:15:17to decide if they want to

00:15:18remain in daylight time

00:15:20or opt out and pick standard time.

00:15:23They wouldn't have the option

00:15:24to continue deadly

00:15:25twice-yearly switching.

00:15:27With clear federal guidance,

00:15:28schools can evaluate

00:15:29and pick their own bell times.

00:15:31Businesses can plan confidently,

00:15:32free from the confusion

00:15:33caused by time changes.

00:15:34And states would even have time

00:15:35to hold elections

00:15:36to let the people decide directly.

00:15:39I started my remarks

00:15:40with that study about the judges.

00:15:42The reason researchers

00:15:42could do that

00:15:43and find so many other ways

00:15:45that the time change is harmful

00:15:47is DSC creates

00:15:48what scientists call

00:15:48a natural experiment.

00:15:50Scientists can compare

00:15:51real-world results

00:15:52about what happens

00:15:53when the time changes.

00:15:56Interestingly,

00:15:56in traditional experiments

00:15:58with lab rats,

00:16:00scientists are careful

00:16:00not to change the clocks

00:16:02for daylight saving time

00:16:03for the rats

00:16:04because it's too disruptive.

00:16:06So my closing question

00:16:08for you today is this.

00:16:09At long last,

00:16:10can we treat our citizens

00:16:12with the decency

00:16:13that we treat our lab rats?

00:16:15Thank you,

00:16:16and I'm open to any questions.

00:16:18Thank you, Mr. Yates,

00:16:19for very interesting testimony.

00:16:20Mr. Caron.

00:16:22Good morning, everyone.

00:16:23Thank you, Chairman Cruz,

00:16:24Senator Blunt-Rochester,

00:16:25and members of the committee

00:16:26for asking me

00:16:27to enter testimony

00:16:28on behalf of the members

00:16:29of the National Golf Course

00:16:30Owners Association

00:16:31on a pretty complex issue.

00:16:34We are headquartered

00:16:35in Charleston, South Carolina

00:16:36and represent approximately

00:16:374,000 public courses,

00:16:39private clubs,

00:16:40municipal courses,

00:16:41and resorts

00:16:41throughout the United States.

00:16:43A little bit about

00:16:44the golf economy.

00:16:45Many elected friends

00:16:47see golf simply as a game

00:16:48until it's time

00:16:50to talk about taxes,

00:16:51land use, water,

00:16:53employment matters,

00:16:54tourism, zoning, etc.

00:16:55What comes into view

00:16:57is a $102 billion industry

00:16:59employing nearly

00:17:002 million people

00:17:01across 15,000 properties

00:17:03and 2 million acres of land

00:17:05so that nearly

00:17:0730 million Americans

00:17:08can enjoy a great walk

00:17:09outdoors with strangers,

00:17:11friends, and family

00:17:13while hitting

00:17:13a little white ball.

00:17:15Little known fact,

00:17:1675% of golf courses

00:17:18in America

00:17:18are open to the public

00:17:19and nearly $5 billion

00:17:21each year is raised

00:17:23for charitable causes

00:17:24through golf.

00:17:26I also understand

00:17:27golf outings can be

00:17:28an effective fundraiser

00:17:29for political campaigns.

00:17:31The health benefits

00:17:32of golf are well documented

00:17:33so we tend to vehemently

00:17:36disagree with Mark Twain's

00:17:37assessment of golf

00:17:38as a good walk spoiled.

00:17:40Now, about the clock.

00:17:42Locking the clock

00:17:43doesn't change

00:17:44how much daylight we have

00:17:46just where it shows up

00:17:47on the clock.

00:17:48For golf

00:17:48and many outdoor activities

00:17:49a shift can have

00:17:50significant economic

00:17:52and wellness implications.

00:17:54Golf thrives

00:17:55in what we call

00:17:55recreational daylight,

00:17:57the overlap of sunlight

00:17:58and people's availability

00:18:00to be outdoors.

00:18:02Americans overwhelmingly

00:18:03prefer evening recreation

00:18:05over early morning.

00:18:07This isn't just about golf,

00:18:08it's about soccer,

00:18:09jogging, walking,

00:18:11biking, tennis,

00:18:12and so much more.

00:18:13Making standard time

00:18:15permanent would shift

00:18:16one hour per day

00:18:17from recreational

00:18:18to non-recreational

00:18:19daylight.

00:18:20Simplistically,

00:18:21it trades 8 p.m.

00:18:22for 8 a.m.

00:18:24At golf courses,

00:18:25later hours generate

00:18:27about 40% more revenue

00:18:28per hour

00:18:29than early mornings.

00:18:31Trading backwards

00:18:31would cost the average

00:18:33public golf course

00:18:34at least 7 to 8%

00:18:35of their annual revenue

00:18:37by removing the best inventory

00:18:38we have from

00:18:39on our shelves,

00:18:40which is approximately

00:18:4137 million rounds of golf,

00:18:43and would cost the industry

00:18:44at least $1.6 billion

00:18:46or nearly $200,000

00:18:48per course.

00:18:50This analysis

00:18:50only includes

00:18:52green fee revenue

00:18:52and does not include

00:18:53spending on golf car rentals,

00:18:55merchandise,

00:18:56food and beverage,

00:18:56golf lessons,

00:18:57and other areas

00:18:58of the business.

00:18:59Thus, only 7%

00:19:00of our members

00:19:01support making

00:19:03standard time permanent.

00:19:04Those who favor

00:19:05standard time year-round

00:19:06say their morning play

00:19:07is more valuable to them

00:19:09than their afternoon play.

00:19:11These may be resorts

00:19:12that want players

00:19:12off the course

00:19:13and in the restaurants

00:19:14at a reasonable hour.

00:19:16Now, making daylight

00:19:18saving time permanent

00:19:19would provide additional

00:19:20recreational daylight

00:19:22from November to March

00:19:23and would add

00:19:23an estimated 23 million rounds

00:19:26to the current golf inventory.

00:19:28This would give the industry

00:19:29a tailwind of about

00:19:30$1 billion

00:19:31or roughly $250,000

00:19:33per affected facility.

00:19:3564% of our members

00:19:37support making

00:19:38daylight saving time permanent.

00:19:40The status quo,

00:19:41changing of our clocks

00:19:42twice per year,

00:19:43avoids both

00:19:44the significant downside

00:19:45while forfeiting

00:19:46the moderate upside.

00:19:4827% of golf course

00:19:50owners and operators

00:19:50support keeping

00:19:51the status quo

00:19:52of changing the clocks.

00:19:54Many golf courses

00:19:55slow down in the winter

00:19:56and enjoy having

00:19:57some relief later in the day

00:19:58for their employees

00:19:59with the sun setting earlier.

00:20:01Or, they may have

00:20:02a healthy clientele

00:20:04of older players

00:20:05who would prefer

00:20:05no disruption

00:20:06to their 7 a.m. tea time

00:20:08or their 11 o'clock

00:20:09bridge game.

00:20:10Keep in mind,

00:20:11all these figures

00:20:12do not include

00:20:13thousands of private clubs

00:20:14which would augment

00:20:15the impacts

00:20:16in both directions

00:20:17by an enormous sum.

00:20:19In conclusion,

00:20:20the Senate is facing

00:20:21a classic Gordian knot.

00:20:23There will be winners

00:20:24and losers

00:20:25no matter which way

00:20:25the knot is cut.

00:20:27But our members

00:20:28clearly prefer

00:20:29daylight saving time

00:20:30and strongly oppose

00:20:31permanent standard time.

00:20:33We recognize the sleep-related

00:20:35arguments for standard time,

00:20:36but the benefits

00:20:37of extended daylight

00:20:38for physical and mental health,

00:20:39outdoor recreation,

00:20:41and public safety

00:20:42are significant.

00:20:43Obesity, depression,

00:20:44and crime

00:20:45all have ties

00:20:46to reduced daylight

00:20:47and sedentary lifestyles.

00:20:49So, in short,

00:20:50we urge the Senate

00:20:51to avoid the consequences

00:20:52of permanent standard time.

00:20:54We encourage solutions

00:20:55that preserve

00:20:56evening daylight

00:20:57for golf,

00:20:58for health,

00:20:59for recreation,

00:21:00and local economies.

00:21:04Dr. Johnson.

00:21:06Chairman Cruz,

00:21:07Senator Blunt-Rochester,

00:21:08distinguished members

00:21:09of the Senate.

00:21:10Thank you for having me.

00:21:11My name is Dr. Karin Johnson.

00:21:13State, I'm a neurologist

00:21:14and practicing

00:21:15sleep medicine specialist

00:21:16in Massachusetts

00:21:18and am here representing

00:21:19the American Academy

00:21:20of Sleep Medicine.

00:21:22I want to extend

00:21:23my gratitude

00:21:23to Chairman Cruz

00:21:24for having this

00:21:25timely committee hearing.

00:21:28In December,

00:21:29President Trump

00:21:30called to end

00:21:31daylight savings time

00:21:32and his

00:21:32Make America Healthy

00:21:33Commission's mandate

00:21:34to reduce chronic diseases,

00:21:36especially in children,

00:21:38aligns with

00:21:39permanent standard time.

00:21:40Unfortunately,

00:21:41permanent daylight saving time

00:21:43and the Sunshine Protection Act

00:21:44do the opposite.

00:21:46So I have three main takeaways.

00:21:47First,

00:21:48the spring clock change

00:21:49to daylight saving time

00:21:51is bad,

00:21:52but permanent

00:21:53daylight savings time

00:21:54is worse.

00:21:55Second,

00:21:56year-round standard time

00:21:57is the natural,

00:21:58healthy choice

00:21:59promoting physical health,

00:22:01mental health,

00:22:02performance,

00:22:03and safety.

00:22:04Third,

00:22:05history supports

00:22:06that permanent standard time

00:22:08is the only viable solution

00:22:09to end seasonal clock change.

00:22:11So let me elaborate.

00:22:13The majority of Americans

00:22:14do consistently

00:22:15want to lock the clock,

00:22:17but it has been more

00:22:18inconsistent

00:22:19about how to ditch

00:22:20the switch.

00:22:21But in March,

00:22:22there was a

00:22:23new Gallup poll

00:22:25that just showed

00:22:27a significant shift

00:22:28in public opinion

00:22:29with twice as many

00:22:30Americans

00:22:31now supporting

00:22:32permanent standard time

00:22:33over permanent

00:22:34daylight savings time.

00:22:3660% of Americans

00:22:38and 80% of teens

00:22:39don't get the recommended

00:22:41amount of sleep,

00:22:42so there's a lot of room

00:22:43to improve sleep.

00:22:45Think about how you,

00:22:46your children,

00:22:47feel after a bad night

00:22:48of sleep.

00:22:49Maybe you forgot

00:22:50an important meeting,

00:22:51drifted out of your lane,

00:22:52eating that extra bowl

00:22:53of ice cream.

00:22:55I know I've done

00:22:56those things.

00:22:57You may have struggled

00:22:58to get your teenager

00:22:59out of bed

00:23:00or been a little short

00:23:01with your husband.

00:23:02Now, instead,

00:23:05think about how much

00:23:06better you feel

00:23:07and function

00:23:08after a good night's sleep.

00:23:10Permanent standard time

00:23:11would give more Americans

00:23:12to get the opportunity

00:23:13to improve their sleep

00:23:15without even trying.

00:23:17The sun is one

00:23:18of the most powerful

00:23:19drivers of health

00:23:20and well-being,

00:23:21but the timing of sunlight

00:23:22is what's critically important.

00:23:24Without enough

00:23:25morning light

00:23:26or with too much

00:23:27evening light,

00:23:27our circadian rhythms

00:23:28delay.

00:23:29This disrupts

00:23:30our sleep patterns

00:23:31and our body

00:23:32and brain functions.

00:23:34Permanent daylight savings time

00:23:35would cause sunrises

00:23:36after 8 a.m.

00:23:37for two to four months

00:23:39every winter,

00:23:40depriving us

00:23:40of this critical

00:23:41morning light.

00:23:42This is why

00:23:43permanent daylight saving time

00:23:45would be exponentially worse

00:23:47than seasonal

00:23:48daylight saving time.

00:23:50The adverse effects

00:23:51are greatest

00:23:52in our children,

00:23:53our teenagers,

00:23:54and other night owls

00:23:55who bodies' clocks

00:23:56already run late.

00:23:57as discussed,

00:23:59there are many

00:24:00harmful benefits

00:24:01that occur

00:24:01in the days

00:24:02after this change,

00:24:04especially in the spring

00:24:05to daylight savings time,

00:24:06including more strokes

00:24:07and heart attacks.

00:24:09As highlighted

00:24:10in the prior testimony,

00:24:12brain function

00:24:13is really affected

00:24:15by sleep,

00:24:16and so,

00:24:16you know,

00:24:17we heard about judges

00:24:18making harsher

00:24:19statements.

00:24:20However,

00:24:22these harms

00:24:23does not mean

00:24:25that permanent

00:24:26daylight savings time

00:24:27would be better.

00:24:28Instead,

00:24:29the later sunrises

00:24:30and sunsets

00:24:31of daylight savings time

00:24:32lead to higher risks

00:24:33of chronic diseases,

00:24:35including,

00:24:35but not limited to,

00:24:36cancer,

00:24:37diabetes,

00:24:38heart disease,

00:24:39obesity,

00:24:40and these outweigh

00:24:41the short-term risks

00:24:42of what happens

00:24:43with the time change.

00:24:45There's also data

00:24:46that says

00:24:46that permanent

00:24:47standard time

00:24:48also results

00:24:49in better

00:24:50mental health outcomes,

00:24:51including reducing

00:24:52rates of depression

00:24:53and suicide.

00:24:55This is not surprising

00:24:56as morning light

00:24:57and healthy sleep

00:24:58are known treatments

00:24:59for depression.

00:25:00On the other hand,

00:25:02poor sleep

00:25:02increases the risk

00:25:03of drug use,

00:25:05alcohol use,

00:25:05and other risk-taking behaviors.

00:25:08There are some

00:25:09misconceptions

00:25:09I want to address.

00:25:11As discussed,

00:25:11permanent

00:25:12daylight savings time

00:25:12does not make days longer,

00:25:14nor is it the reason

00:25:15why people feel better

00:25:16in the summer.

00:25:17Instead,

00:25:18permanent

00:25:19daylight savings time

00:25:20is a hidden mandate

00:25:21to wake Americans

00:25:22up an hour earlier

00:25:24to their alarm clocks

00:25:27rather than the sun.

00:25:28If we called it

00:25:29the go-to-work

00:25:30an hour earlier act

00:25:31rather than

00:25:32the Sunshine Protection Act,

00:25:33no one would be

00:25:34voting for it.

00:25:35Permanent

00:25:36daylight savings time

00:25:37does not increase

00:25:38overall exercise levels

00:25:39in the U.S.,

00:25:40and even if some people

00:25:42exercise more,

00:25:43obesity and heart disease,

00:25:44these chronic diseases

00:25:45are still more prevalent.

00:25:47while darkness

00:25:50comes with health

00:25:51and safety risks,

00:25:53daylight savings time

00:25:53is not the solution.

00:25:55There is no data

00:25:56to support

00:25:56that permanent

00:25:57daylight savings time

00:25:58would reduce

00:25:59overall crime

00:26:00or motor vehicle crashes.

00:26:02Instead,

00:26:02later sunrises

00:26:03and sunsets

00:26:04are associated

00:26:05with 20% more

00:26:06fatal crashes.

00:26:08The negative impact

00:26:09of daylight savings time

00:26:10on sleep

00:26:11and our brain health

00:26:12harms the economy.

00:26:13Workers,

00:26:14especially those

00:26:15with early start times

00:26:16before 8.30,

00:26:17think of your farmers,

00:26:18your transportation workers,

00:26:19your factory workers,

00:26:21are less likely

00:26:22to be productive

00:26:23and efficient.

00:26:24Workplace injuries

00:26:25rise after the transition

00:26:27to daylight savings time

00:26:28and healthcare spending

00:26:29increases.

00:26:30On the other hand,

00:26:31permanent standard time

00:26:32improves academic success

00:26:33in our children

00:26:34with higher test scores.

00:26:36Your constituents'

00:26:37utility bills

00:26:38will be lower

00:26:38with permanent standard time

00:26:40by reducing heating

00:26:41and cooling costs.

00:26:42And finally,

00:26:43the U.S. tried

00:26:43and quickly abandoned

00:26:45permanent daylight savings time

00:26:46twice before,

00:26:47most recently in 1974.

00:26:49It just doesn't work.

00:26:50It won't last.

00:26:52For those that are serious

00:26:53about ending clock changes,

00:26:54permanent standard time

00:26:56is the only viable solution.

00:26:58Please refer to my written testimony

00:26:59for more details

00:27:00and happy to look forward

00:27:01to the questions later.

00:27:04Thank you very much.

00:27:05Dr. Harkey.

00:27:07Chairman Cruz,

00:27:09Ranking Member Blunt Rochester

00:27:10and members of the committee.

00:27:12Thank you for the opportunity

00:27:13to share the IHS research

00:27:15on the road safety implications

00:27:16of daylight saving time.

00:27:18When discussing any topic

00:27:20on road safety

00:27:21in the United States,

00:27:22it is important

00:27:23to set the stage.

00:27:24Simply put,

00:27:25we are in a road safety emergency.

00:27:27Crash deaths have risen

00:27:28nearly 30% since 2014,

00:27:31from below 33,000

00:27:33to more than 42,000

00:27:34in 2022.

00:27:36Pedestrian crashes,

00:27:37in particular,

00:27:38have reached crisis levels.

00:27:40Climbing more than 80%

00:27:41from their low point in 2009.

00:27:45Changing the clocks

00:27:46twice a year

00:27:46is relevant to road safety

00:27:48first and foremost

00:27:48because it affects

00:27:49the amount of ambient light

00:27:51during peak times for travel.

00:27:53We know that darkness

00:27:54is associated

00:27:55with increased risk

00:27:56of fatal crashes.

00:27:58We do about a quarter

00:27:59of our travel at night,

00:28:01but nearly half

00:28:01of motor vehicle

00:28:02occupant deaths

00:28:03and three quarters

00:28:04of pedestrian deaths

00:28:06occur in the dark.

00:28:06obviously adjusting

00:28:08the clock

00:28:09cannot increase

00:28:10the number

00:28:10of daylight hours,

00:28:11but can only shift

00:28:12how they align

00:28:13with work

00:28:14and school schedules.

00:28:16Since people travel

00:28:17at all times of day

00:28:18and the risk created

00:28:19by darkness

00:28:20varies by road user type,

00:28:22the effects

00:28:23of these time changes

00:28:24on crashes

00:28:24are complex.

00:28:26The aim

00:28:27of our recent study

00:28:28was to examine

00:28:29the effect of changes

00:28:30in light conditions

00:28:31associated with

00:28:32the beginning

00:28:32and the end

00:28:33of daylight saving time.

00:28:35We examined 10 years

00:28:36of fatality data

00:28:37for the five weeks

00:28:38before and after

00:28:38each time change

00:28:39and only considered crashes

00:28:41between 4 a.m. and 10 a.m.

00:28:43and between 3 p.m. and 9 p.m.

00:28:46Ambient light conditions

00:28:47were calculated

00:28:48using the sunrise

00:28:49and sunset times

00:28:50corresponding

00:28:51to the geographic coordinates

00:28:52of each crash.

00:28:55Crashes resulting

00:28:56in vehicle occupant deaths

00:28:57fell 7%

00:28:58in the five weeks

00:28:59after the time change

00:29:00in the fall

00:29:01and increased 12%

00:29:03in the five weeks

00:29:04after the time change

00:29:05in the spring.

00:29:07The opposite

00:29:08was true

00:29:08for crashes

00:29:08resulting in pedestrian

00:29:10or bicyclist deaths.

00:29:11Those crashes

00:29:12rose 13%

00:29:13in the fall

00:29:14and declined

00:29:1624%

00:29:17in the spring.

00:29:19The net effect

00:29:20was 26

00:29:21fewer morning

00:29:23and evening crashes

00:29:24with pedestrian

00:29:25or bicyclist fatalities

00:29:26per year

00:29:27and 29

00:29:28additional

00:29:29morning

00:29:30and evening crashes

00:29:31with vehicle occupant fatalities.

00:29:33It is important

00:29:34to emphasize

00:29:35that our study

00:29:35does not point

00:29:36to a preference

00:29:38for standard time

00:29:39or daylight saving time

00:29:40based on road safety alone.

00:29:43The clearest takeaway

00:29:44from this research

00:29:46is that there is

00:29:47a strong relationship

00:29:48between increased darkness

00:29:50and fatal crashes,

00:29:52particularly for pedestrians

00:29:53and bicyclists.

00:29:55This is consistent

00:29:56with previous studies,

00:29:57including our own work

00:29:58from 30 years ago

00:30:00examining the effects

00:30:01of daylight saving time.

00:30:03While the clock

00:30:04may not hold the answer

00:30:05to our road safety crisis,

00:30:06there are known solutions

00:30:07for protecting pedestrians

00:30:09in dark

00:30:09and low-light conditions

00:30:10and for reducing

00:30:11the crash toll overall.

00:30:13We should commit

00:30:14to infrastructure

00:30:15and vehicle improvements

00:30:17that have been shown

00:30:17to increase safety

00:30:18for pedestrians

00:30:19and bicyclists

00:30:20on different types

00:30:20of roadways

00:30:21in urban, suburban,

00:30:23and rural environments.

00:30:24This includes

00:30:26engineering treatments

00:30:26to improve motor shielding behavior

00:30:28and vehicle technology

00:30:30such as better headlights

00:30:31and automatic emergency braking.

00:30:34Efforts are also needed

00:30:35to address speed

00:30:36on our roadways.

00:30:38The speed effect

00:30:39on crash severity

00:30:40is more pronounced

00:30:41for pedestrians

00:30:42and bicyclists

00:30:42who do not have the benefit

00:30:44of the vehicle structure

00:30:45to protect them.

00:30:47Speed limit policy,

00:30:49enforcement,

00:30:50engineering,

00:30:50and vehicle technology

00:30:51all have a role to play

00:30:53in slowing down drivers.

00:30:55Such a multi-pronged strategy

00:30:57to improve pedestrian

00:30:58and bicyclist safety

00:30:59at night

00:31:00exemplifies the safe system approach,

00:31:03which the U.S. DOT

00:31:04has adopted

00:31:06as the guiding paradigm

00:31:07of the National Roadway

00:31:08Safety Strategy.

00:31:09But implementation

00:31:10has simply been too slow.

00:31:14We are alarmed

00:31:15by the rising toll

00:31:15of crashes

00:31:16on our nation's roads

00:31:17and dismayed

00:31:18by the lack of urgency

00:31:19to fix the problem.

00:31:21For this reason,

00:31:22we recently launched

00:31:23an initiative

00:31:24we are calling 30 by 30,

00:31:26a goal to reduce

00:31:27U.S. fatalities

00:31:2830 percent by 2030.

00:31:31Achieving this reduction

00:31:32will require

00:31:33a concerted effort

00:31:33by all stakeholders.

00:31:35We will increase

00:31:36our efforts

00:31:37to address risky behaviors,

00:31:39seek opportunities

00:31:40to improve safety

00:31:41for everyone

00:31:41inside and outside

00:31:43the vehicle,

00:31:44and explore ways

00:31:45to make commercial

00:31:46vehicle fleets safer.

00:31:48We ask everybody

00:31:49who cares about

00:31:51the needless loss

00:31:52of life on our roadways,

00:31:53including this committee,

00:31:55to think about

00:31:55what they can contribute

00:31:57to achieving

00:31:58the 30 by 30 goal.

00:32:03You'll notice

00:32:03the freshmen

00:32:04have taken over

00:32:05this committee.

00:32:06And we have

00:32:07an agenda,

00:32:09don't we?

00:32:09Yeah.

00:32:10Listen,

00:32:10I'm pleased to be here.

00:32:11John Curtis from Utah.

00:32:13And thank you,

00:32:14panel,

00:32:15for this important topic.

00:32:16And I think

00:32:17it's fair to say

00:32:19that my constituents

00:32:20share the same frustration

00:32:22that's been articulated

00:32:23here by the back and forth.

00:32:25Mr. Yates,

00:32:25you mentioned

00:32:26in your testimony

00:32:27that the only reason

00:32:28we still have

00:32:29this time change

00:32:30every six months

00:32:30is due to the federal

00:32:32government's inability

00:32:33to decide between

00:32:34standard or daylight

00:32:35savings time

00:32:35which one is best.

00:32:37Based on your research

00:32:38and your outreach,

00:32:39do you have any indication

00:32:40how many states

00:32:41would opt out

00:32:42and maintain

00:32:42permanent standard time

00:32:44if your proposal

00:32:45for permanent

00:32:46daylight savings time

00:32:46were enacted?

00:32:48Thank you,

00:32:49Senator,

00:32:49for the question.

00:32:50I don't have

00:32:51a specific answer.

00:32:53I can talk to you

00:32:54about some of

00:32:54the conversations

00:32:55that I've had

00:32:55with state legislators

00:32:56including,

00:32:57I don't know if you know

00:32:58Dr. Raymond Ward

00:32:58in Utah.

00:32:59He was the sponsor

00:33:00of the bill there

00:33:00and he thought

00:33:02and he said

00:33:03all of his constituents

00:33:04told him

00:33:04that the state preferred,

00:33:07that everybody preferred

00:33:08to stay in

00:33:09permanent daylight time

00:33:10in Utah.

00:33:10Utah might be a case

00:33:15where standard time

00:33:16might be a good option

00:33:17and that's why

00:33:17I think the two-year

00:33:18implementation

00:33:19would actually be

00:33:20a great chance

00:33:21for everybody in Utah

00:33:22to look at what

00:33:23So let me jump,

00:33:24let's talk about Utah.

00:33:26You are correct.

00:33:27They've actually

00:33:28passed legislation

00:33:29to stay on

00:33:29permanent daylight

00:33:30savings time

00:33:30and I guess my question

00:33:31is why shouldn't states

00:33:34have the right

00:33:36to make this decision?

00:33:37Don't they know best

00:33:38about what they want

00:33:39for their constituents

00:33:41and why aren't we

00:33:44giving more accommodation

00:33:45to states

00:33:45and particularly Utah

00:33:46who has spoken

00:33:47so vocally

00:33:48about what they would like?

00:33:51I'm sorry, Senator.

00:33:52Are you asking

00:33:53is there a way

00:33:54that the states

00:33:55could opt out of?

00:33:56So my point is

00:33:59states know

00:34:00what's best for them.

00:34:02Right.

00:34:02Some states like Utah

00:34:03clearly have a preference

00:34:05and some would go

00:34:06the other way

00:34:06and I guess my question

00:34:07is now let me tie that

00:34:08into the next question

00:34:10is we could see

00:34:11a patchwork

00:34:12which I suspect

00:34:13might be the answer

00:34:13to that.

00:34:14Now Utah,

00:34:15by the way,

00:34:15we abut Arizona

00:34:17and so my whole life

00:34:18we have watched Arizona

00:34:19mock us

00:34:21as we all change our times

00:34:24and somehow

00:34:25we've navigated

00:34:26that just fine

00:34:27without any problem

00:34:28and then I'd also bring up

00:34:29like technology

00:34:30is in a very,

00:34:31very different place

00:34:32than it was years ago

00:34:33in our ability

00:34:33to adapt to this

00:34:34so do you worry

00:34:34about a patchwork

00:34:36or are we okay

00:34:36with that?

00:34:38Thank you for the question

00:34:39Senator.

00:34:40I think that

00:34:41less complexity

00:34:42in the system

00:34:43is better.

00:34:44It's natural

00:34:45to think that

00:34:46there would be

00:34:46a patchwork

00:34:47if we allowed

00:34:47more states

00:34:48stopped into

00:34:48permanent standard time

00:34:50but we have

00:34:51a patchwork now.

00:34:52What we would be creating

00:34:53is less of a patchwork

00:34:55because the lines

00:34:56might change a little bit

00:34:57for instance

00:34:58Indiana

00:34:59for instance

00:35:00may decide

00:35:00that it's better

00:35:01for the whole state

00:35:02of Indiana

00:35:02to be in

00:35:03central time

00:35:05with Chicago

00:35:05which is a bus

00:35:06and which is

00:35:06a thousand miles

00:35:07from Boston

00:35:08and so

00:35:09it wouldn't create

00:35:10a patchwork

00:35:10it would just create

00:35:11a change

00:35:12in where the line is

00:35:13and so

00:35:13the first

00:35:15and most important

00:35:16thing is

00:35:16decreasing

00:35:17eliminating

00:35:19the clock changing

00:35:20which decreases

00:35:22complexity

00:35:22and then

00:35:23once we've got

00:35:24that stability

00:35:24it won't be

00:35:25a patchwork

00:35:26it'll just be

00:35:26we know what time

00:35:27it is in Indiana

00:35:28because all

00:35:29of the

00:35:29It's the way

00:35:29we've accommodated

00:35:30it to

00:35:30with Arizona

00:35:31Exactly

00:35:32Right

00:35:32and if we're honest

00:35:33we already have

00:35:35these lines

00:35:35and they do

00:35:36just fine

00:35:37and so

00:35:38just for the record

00:35:39I'm a strong

00:35:40advocate to let

00:35:41my state do

00:35:41what they

00:35:42prefer to do

00:35:43and feel like

00:35:44they know how

00:35:45to make those

00:35:45decisions best

00:35:46I'm going to use

00:35:47just a little bit

00:35:48of time

00:35:48for actually

00:35:50a very interesting

00:35:51personal question

00:35:51Dr. Johnson

00:35:52given all the

00:35:54effects that we've

00:35:55heard about

00:35:56what's the likelihood

00:35:58that if somebody

00:35:59had a profession

00:35:59where they were

00:36:00moving across

00:36:01the country

00:36:01twice a week

00:36:03and changing

00:36:03time zones

00:36:04an hour

00:36:04or two

00:36:05hour

00:36:05or sometimes

00:36:05three hours

00:36:06that they would

00:36:08be subject

00:36:09to those

00:36:09same problems

00:36:10So

00:36:12you know

00:36:13a lot of us

00:36:14can relate

00:36:15to jet lag

00:36:15one thing

00:36:17that happens

00:36:17with jet lag

00:36:18is you're moving

00:36:19to a new

00:36:20time

00:36:20where the sun

00:36:21is in the sky

00:36:21and so

00:36:22we adjust

00:36:23to that

00:36:24within a

00:36:24day or two

00:36:25we get

00:36:25to the new

00:36:26time zone

00:36:27depending on

00:36:27how far

00:36:28we're going

00:36:28what happens

00:36:29with going

00:36:30to permanent

00:36:31daylight savings

00:36:32time

00:36:32is we're

00:36:33changing

00:36:33the clock

00:36:34time

00:36:34but we're

00:36:34not changing

00:36:35the sun

00:36:35that's why

00:36:36there's this

00:36:36perpetual

00:36:37misalignment

00:36:38that has

00:36:39more stresses

00:36:40and harms

00:36:41to our body

00:36:42over the long

00:36:42run

00:36:42so very

00:36:44frequent

00:36:45time travel

00:36:46with a lot

00:36:47of adjust

00:36:48is a big

00:36:49strain on the

00:36:49body

00:36:49but for most

00:36:50people that

00:36:51don't do it

00:36:51all the time

00:36:52we do adjust

00:36:53within days

00:36:54and we can

00:36:55get you know

00:36:56that better

00:36:56health

00:36:56and more

00:36:57misalignment

00:36:57or more

00:36:58alignment

00:36:58of our rhythms

00:36:59within days

00:37:00unless within days

00:37:01you're going

00:37:01back to the

00:37:01previous times

00:37:02that that is

00:37:03why the really

00:37:04frequent not good

00:37:05all right I think

00:37:06I've made my point

00:37:06I'll yield to the

00:37:08ranking member

00:37:08thank you to my

00:37:11fellow freshman

00:37:12and classmate

00:37:13senator curtis

00:37:15and also thank you

00:37:17to senator

00:37:17campwell for the

00:37:19opportunity to

00:37:20be ranking member

00:37:21today

00:37:21and I also want

00:37:23to thank the

00:37:23witnesses

00:37:23you know this is

00:37:25one of the issues

00:37:26that a lot of

00:37:27times we will

00:37:29get messages

00:37:29from our

00:37:30constituents

00:37:30people have

00:37:31strong opinions

00:37:33and I was

00:37:34literally in a

00:37:35meeting before

00:37:36this with a

00:37:37CEO of a

00:37:38company who

00:37:38asked well what

00:37:39do you think

00:37:39and so this is

00:37:41something that

00:37:41does touch on

00:37:42so many

00:37:43and I want

00:37:44to start my

00:37:45questions with

00:37:46you Dr.

00:37:47Harkey

00:37:47because year-round

00:37:49daylight saving

00:37:49time would mean

00:37:51later sunrises

00:37:52in the mornings

00:37:53more people may

00:37:55be commuting to

00:37:55work or to

00:37:57school in the

00:37:58dark some

00:37:59people have

00:37:59raised concerns

00:38:00that this would

00:38:02put their

00:38:02children at

00:38:03greater risk of

00:38:03being hit by

00:38:04cars while

00:38:05walking to

00:38:06school pedestrians

00:38:07are more likely

00:38:07to be killed in

00:38:08traffic accidents

00:38:09as you stated

00:38:10in the dark

00:38:11because it's

00:38:11harder for the

00:38:12drivers to see

00:38:13them and in

00:38:14the 1970s it

00:38:15was widely

00:38:15reported that

00:38:16mothers raised

00:38:17significant concerns

00:38:18about their

00:38:18children walking

00:38:19to school in

00:38:20the dark in

00:38:21the winter

00:38:21nationwide over

00:38:2370% of fatal

00:38:25accidents involving

00:38:26pedestrians occur

00:38:27at night

00:38:28Dr.

00:38:29Harkey no matter

00:38:30what time the

00:38:31sun goes down

00:38:32what roadway

00:38:33improvements can

00:38:34cities and states

00:38:35make to reduce

00:38:37pedestrian

00:38:38fatalities

00:38:38things.

00:38:40Thank you for the

00:38:41question senator

00:38:42that is exactly

00:38:45what our study

00:38:46indicated is that

00:38:47it's not about

00:38:48the shifting of

00:38:49the time that

00:38:51we're going to have

00:38:52darkness regardless

00:38:53of which decision

00:38:54you make which

00:38:54policy decision

00:38:55you make and so

00:38:57that's what we're

00:38:58looking for is to

00:38:59try and figure out

00:39:00how do we make

00:39:01pedestrians and

00:39:02bicyclists in

00:39:03particular safer in

00:39:04those dark hours

00:39:05whether they're in the

00:39:06morning or whether

00:39:06in the evening and

00:39:08for most

00:39:10municipalities and

00:39:11county agencies and

00:39:12state DOTs who are

00:39:14struggling to address

00:39:15this issue there's two

00:39:17key things.

00:39:18One is space.

00:39:19We have to provide

00:39:21the appropriate space

00:39:22sidewalks in rural

00:39:24areas that can be

00:39:25separated paths or

00:39:26possibly paved

00:39:27shoulders even.

00:39:29Places for people to

00:39:30walk where they're not

00:39:31in the edge of the

00:39:32travel lane.

00:39:33We also have to take

00:39:34care to provide

00:39:36careful crossings so

00:39:38we have to be, pay

00:39:39particular attention to

00:39:41how we're allowing

00:39:42motor vehicles and

00:39:43pedestrians to interact

00:39:45at crosswalks.

00:39:47These can be at

00:39:48intersections, they can

00:39:48be at mid-block

00:39:49locations so you have

00:39:51to have appropriate

00:39:51crossings.

00:39:53Pedestrians aren't

00:39:54going to walk too far,

00:39:54they're going to make

00:39:55those decisions to cross

00:39:56in the middle of the

00:39:57road sometimes and so

00:39:58you want to make sure

00:39:58that you're providing

00:39:59adequate crossings

00:40:00where they want to

00:40:01cross and then you've

00:40:02got to do all you can

00:40:03to provide the kinds

00:40:06of traffic control

00:40:07devices that will

00:40:08increase motorist

00:40:09yielding behavior.

00:40:10So this includes

00:40:11things like rapid

00:40:12flash beacons which

00:40:14have been shown to

00:40:15increase motorist

00:40:15yielding behavior six

00:40:17fold.

00:40:18You can build on that

00:40:19adding simple things

00:40:21like lights that are

00:40:22triggered when a

00:40:22pedestrian hits the

00:40:23crosswalk area, it

00:40:25will light up that

00:40:26crosswalk, you can

00:40:27double the amount of

00:40:28motorist yielding

00:40:29behavior.

00:40:30So these are

00:40:30interventions that have

00:40:32been proven over time

00:40:33and it's important for

00:40:35state agencies and

00:40:36local agencies to take

00:40:37advantage of those

00:40:38kinds of interventions

00:40:39and get those

00:40:40implemented anywhere

00:40:42that they have

00:40:43pedestrians.

00:40:44Following along on

00:40:45the safety theme,

00:40:46what vehicle technologies

00:40:48can help protect

00:40:49pedestrians when it's

00:40:51difficult for drivers

00:40:52to see them?

00:40:53Yeah, and so this is

00:40:54another important aspect

00:40:55and this is what builds

00:40:56on the safe system

00:40:57approach, right?

00:40:58Building that

00:40:59redundancy into the

00:41:00systems.

00:41:01You don't just rely on

00:41:01the infrastructure,

00:41:02you also build

00:41:03technology into vehicles

00:41:05that can help with

00:41:05this.

00:41:06Two big things that

00:41:07we've studied, one is

00:41:09better headlights.

00:41:11We're the only group

00:41:12in the world that

00:41:12tests headlights the way

00:41:14that we do on our

00:41:15track and so we've

00:41:17seen improvements in

00:41:18headlights over the

00:41:19years that increase

00:41:20visibility and provide

00:41:21drivers with

00:41:22additional time.

00:41:23They can see that

00:41:24pedestrian further down

00:41:25the roadway and so

00:41:27that's a big change

00:41:28and we'll continue to

00:41:29push for that.

00:41:30The other is automatic

00:41:31emergency braking with

00:41:32pedestrian detection.

00:41:33That also has been

00:41:35shown to work and be

00:41:36very effective at

00:41:37reducing pedestrian

00:41:38crashes in the daytime

00:41:39and now our testing is

00:41:41really focused on

00:41:42getting automakers to

00:41:43improve those systems to

00:41:44work even better at

00:41:45nighttime.

00:41:46So that's an example of

00:41:47two technologies in the

00:41:48vehicle that can be

00:41:49really, really

00:41:50beneficial.

00:41:51You know, one of the

00:41:52things that I've

00:41:53noticed is that our

00:41:55safety efforts are

00:41:56siloed.

00:41:57You have the Federal

00:41:59Highway Administration

00:42:00which builds and

00:42:01maintains highways.

00:42:03You have the National

00:42:04Highway Traffic Safety

00:42:06Administration which

00:42:07regulates vehicle safety

00:42:08standards and

00:42:09investigates defects.

00:42:11Then you've got the

00:42:12Federal Motor Carrier

00:42:13Safety Administration

00:42:14which oversees

00:42:15commercial motor

00:42:17vehicles and trucking

00:42:18industry safety all kind

00:42:20of working separately.

00:42:21And I think back to

00:42:24what you were talking

00:42:25about, about kind of

00:42:26how can we better layer

00:42:28safety measures to help

00:42:30stop deadly crashes?

00:42:32Yeah, you're absolutely

00:42:34right.

00:42:34And so build on top of

00:42:35the separation and the

00:42:36Federal agencies that

00:42:37you just discussed.

00:42:39Along with them, you

00:42:40have state DOTs, you

00:42:41have county DOTs, you

00:42:43have city DOTs.

00:42:44And so it becomes quite

00:42:46the web of how you make

00:42:47decisions when it comes

00:42:49to road safety.

00:42:50One of the things that

00:42:51we have to do a better

00:42:53job of is communicating

00:42:55between those agencies

00:42:56deliberately.

00:42:58And so there is no

00:42:59single authority of the

00:43:00ones that you mentioned

00:43:01that has complete

00:43:03authority over every

00:43:04decision on our roadway

00:43:05system when it comes to

00:43:06safety.

00:43:07And so these agencies

00:43:08have to do a better job

00:43:09of communicating together

00:43:11deliberately and not

00:43:12just at the executive

00:43:13level but at the staff

00:43:15level because it's at

00:43:17the staff level where

00:43:18people know what

00:43:19interventions work best

00:43:20and how to apply those

00:43:23in a way that you

00:43:24create that redundancy in

00:43:25the system that we were

00:43:26talking about.

00:43:27So whether it's

00:43:28infrastructure, whether

00:43:29it's vehicle, whether

00:43:30it's changing behaviors,

00:43:32that communication

00:43:33amongst the staff is

00:43:34absolutely critical.

00:43:35Great.

00:43:36And I was really

00:43:37interested to hear about

00:43:39your 30 by 30.

00:43:41So in the interest of

00:43:42time, I will yield back

00:43:43to the chairman.

00:43:44Thank you very much.

00:43:47And I want to thank

00:43:48each of the witnesses for

00:43:49being here on what is a

00:43:51very interesting topic and

00:43:52important topic and

00:43:54complex topic.

00:43:57There are very real and

00:43:59complicated issues and

00:44:01countervailing arguments

00:44:02on both sides.

00:44:04I think there is widespread

00:44:05agreement on locking the

00:44:08clock, but where to lock

00:44:09it, the reason we're

00:44:12holding these hearings is

00:44:13because these are real

00:44:14arguments and they have

00:44:15real, real impacts on

00:44:17people.

00:44:18Let me start on the

00:44:19health side.

00:44:20Dr. Johnson, can you

00:44:22expand on the impact

00:44:23sleep deprivation has on

00:44:26our overall health, on

00:44:27our minds, our moods, and

00:44:28especially on young

00:44:30children for whom we know

00:44:32sleep is so vital?

00:44:33Thank you for asking about

00:44:35that.

00:44:35Yeah, sleep has different

00:44:39aspects.

00:44:39So one is just how much

00:44:40we sleep, but it's the

00:44:41quality of sleep and then

00:44:42the timing of sleep.

00:44:44So any disturbance in that

00:44:46can affect how we do.

00:44:49So we know that kids, even

00:44:50if over a whole week they

00:44:51get enough sleep, if they

00:44:54don't get enough during the

00:44:55week and catch up on the

00:44:56weekend, they still don't do

00:44:57as well.

00:44:59And so sleep and our

00:45:02circadian rhythms, they

00:45:03really regulate every

00:45:05aspect of our body, our

00:45:07metabolism, they affect how

00:45:09we think about things, they

00:45:10affect our choices of

00:45:11food.

00:45:11You're more likely to grab a

00:45:13celery stick when you're,

00:45:14you know, got enough sleep

00:45:16but grab that bagel or that,

00:45:17you know, candy bar when

00:45:19you're sleep deprived.

00:45:21Athletic performance we know

00:45:23is better when people do

00:45:24sleep, academic success in

00:45:26school.

00:45:27And then mental health has

00:45:29some of the most deep

00:45:30connections to sleep health.

00:45:33And that's why even though

00:45:35people, you know, feel better

00:45:37when they see light, it's that

00:45:38timing of light and our

00:45:39circadian rhythms that is so

00:45:41deeply intertwined that if we

00:45:44can improve sleep, if we can

00:45:46improve those rhythms, we see

00:45:47those lower rates of depression

00:45:49overall.

00:45:50We see lower rates of

00:45:51suicide.

00:45:52And that's what the data,

00:45:54there was just a new say that

00:45:54came out just last week,

00:45:56showing 6% higher rates of

00:46:00depression when the sun rises

00:46:02are set later, when we lose

00:46:04that critical morning light.

00:46:06And this gets exponentially

00:46:07worse in the winter when you

00:46:10lose the, you know, the light

00:46:11in the morning.

00:46:12So Texas and the southern

00:46:15states actually lose that

00:46:16morning light for a longer

00:46:17period because of the curve of

00:46:19the earth, the more even days.

00:46:21You get three to four months

00:46:22with it being dark after 8 a.m.

00:46:24And some of the darkest places

00:46:27in the country are actually in

00:46:28western Texas if we were to go

00:46:30to permanent daylight savings

00:46:31time.

00:46:32And that's why in 1974, a lot

00:46:34of the push to end our

00:46:36experiment with daylight savings

00:46:37time was actually pushed by

00:46:38states like Florida and Texas

00:46:40and the southern states.

00:46:44Can you also explain why

00:46:46consistent sleep patterns are

00:46:48important for teen brain

00:46:50development and mental health?

00:46:52Yeah.

00:46:53So again, this goes back to our

00:46:55circadian rhythms.

00:46:57And so better.

00:46:59So when our circadian rhythms

00:47:01are working well, they help us

00:47:02anticipate our day.

00:47:04And so what I mean by that is

00:47:06we have certain times when our

00:47:07body wants to go to sleep.

00:47:09And so teenagers, their natural

00:47:10rhythm is later.

00:47:11If any of you have been around

00:47:12a teenager, you can't just say,

00:47:14go to bed.

00:47:15You know, they're like, I'm

00:47:16wide awake.

00:47:17We have this, what we call a

00:47:18forbidden zone.

00:47:19Their alertness just is

00:47:20skyrocketing in that time before

00:47:22bed.

00:47:23And so they can't get to sleep on

00:47:26time.

00:47:27But if our social schedule is set

00:47:28an hour earlier, which is what

00:47:30daylight savings time does, they

00:47:32don't have that opportunity to get

00:47:34the amount of sleep they need.

00:47:36And they tend to switch back and

00:47:38forth on weekends.

00:47:39And that switching affects us.

00:47:41And so that then affects how our

00:47:44brain functions.

00:47:45We know more and more about sleep

00:47:47being important for clearing toxins

00:47:49from our brain, which sets us up for

00:47:51things like dementia, Parkinson's

00:47:54disease.

00:47:54I just came back from the

00:47:55neuroconference with data being

00:47:57pointing to, you know, the

00:47:59connections there.

00:48:01Our metabolism gets off, so we're

00:48:03more likely to gain weight.

00:48:06Again, even if people do exercise

00:48:08more, we see like 10% higher rates

00:48:11of obesity in places where the sun

00:48:13sets later.

00:48:15So sleep is so critically important

00:48:17for our metabolic health, our

00:48:19overall health, our mental health, how

00:48:21our brain functions, which affects the

00:48:23safety issues.

00:48:25You know, the highway study, it found

00:48:27a higher risk of vehicle clashes, even

00:48:30though it was light later.

00:48:31The effect of sleep is more powerful

00:48:34than almost anything else.

00:48:35And by aligning the sun, we can

00:48:36really help that.

00:48:38So let's talk a little bit about the

00:48:41idea of states' rights.

00:48:43And I've heard from groups on both

00:48:46sides of this issue that want either

00:48:48permanent standard time or permanent

00:48:50daylight savings time.

00:48:52Almost everyone agrees that changing

00:48:54the clock twice a year doesn't make

00:48:55sense.

00:48:56Mr. Yates, in your opening statement,

00:48:58you said that setting the clock is

00:49:00fundamentally a states' rights issue.

00:49:03Why do you think that decision should

00:49:06be left to the states?

00:49:10Thank you for the question, Senator.

00:49:12The main reason is geography, right?

00:49:14Like we live on this big round ball

00:49:17and the sun is moving and the

00:49:20difference in where each state is

00:49:22makes a big difference in how the

00:49:25sunrise and sunset time applies.

00:49:27And so to say that there is one solution

00:49:30that is exactly right for, you know,

00:49:33Texas and the exact same solution is

00:49:35right for Atlanta, for Georgia, is

00:49:40what I would posit overreach by the

00:49:44federal government.

00:49:44And I might even go back to the example

00:49:48that is often cited about when the time

00:49:50change happened in the 70s.

00:49:53And just to give a little context to why

00:49:55that was so, why that was such a failure,

00:49:57it's often cited that people didn't like it

00:50:00because there were children that were put

00:50:02at risk in the dark waiting for school.

00:50:06It turns out a lot of that is apocryphal.

00:50:08As we've heard, pedestrians are much safer

00:50:12with more light later in the day.

00:50:14But the thing that is interesting about

00:50:15that time change was, and this shows you

00:50:17how different politics was back in those days,

00:50:20that law was signed into law on December 15th, 1973,

00:50:26right in the middle of Watergate.

00:50:28You could say that maybe it was a distraction

00:50:29from other things that were going on,

00:50:31but it was enacted on December 15th on a Saturday.

00:50:33It was enacted, it took place on January 6th, 1974,

00:50:40about three weeks later.

00:50:42So you can imagine the worst Monday of the year already

00:50:45is the one after the holiday break

00:50:47where you have to go back to school and everything.

00:50:49To have an extra hour of sleep robbed away

00:50:51right before that, you can understand

00:50:54why it was so unpopular and why it was repealed

00:50:56two months after Nixon resigned office.

00:50:58So it clearly doesn't work for the federal government

00:51:02to come and say, this is a mandate of exactly

00:51:05what we should do for all of the country

00:51:07all at the same time.

00:51:08But it is the place of the Commerce Committee

00:51:11to say, we need a well-regulated time system.

00:51:15And so it makes sense to get rid of the clock changing.

00:51:18And if we give two years to the states

00:51:20to be able to say, so that all of these arguments

00:51:22can be hashed out, and they're all valid arguments,

00:51:25but they can be hashed out in the geography

00:51:26of the place where it would actually apply.

00:51:29And they would have time to plan and figure out

00:51:31what is the appropriate time for school to start

00:51:33to take in this evidence from neurologists?

00:51:35And what is the best time for all of the businesses

00:51:38to operate?

00:51:39So maybe if we had more daylight,

00:51:41the Watergate break-in doesn't happen.

00:51:44And history would be different.

00:51:46Dr. Johnson, you seem to disagree

00:51:48with having states decide on how they should lock the clock.

00:51:51In your judgment, why do you think

00:51:52that would be the wrong approach?

00:51:54So time is a measure.

00:51:56So Congress has the control over setting measures.

00:52:01I think of my husband.

00:52:02He likes to make a joke.

00:52:03He's 6'6 in the morning and 6'5 in the afternoon.

00:52:06We don't change the length of a foot

00:52:08on his diurnal pattern of his height.

00:52:12Time is supposed to say, you know,

00:52:15how the sun is moving through the sky.

00:52:17And so if we set it to a standard time

00:52:21of the sun being closer to overhead at noon,

00:52:24now that's something we can go by.

00:52:28But states then can decide

00:52:30how they want to set their social schedules.

00:52:33So instead of sort of tricking people into,

00:52:37you know, you all have to get up early no matter what,

00:52:40let's have each state decide

00:52:41when they want their schools to start,

00:52:43when businesses want to start.

00:52:45But let's fix a measure of time

00:52:47that is actually has a meaning

00:52:50where the sun is overhead

00:52:51and then adjust, you know,

00:52:54the social schedule around it.

00:52:55And that is definitely something

00:52:57the state should decide on.

00:52:59Senator Lujan.

00:53:01Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:53:02Thank you all for being here today.

00:53:04Dr. Johnson, thank you for joining us today.

00:53:07I saw that the American Academy of Neurology

00:53:10sent the committee a letter

00:53:12encouraging us to consider

00:53:14that standard time, not daylight savings time

00:53:17is the best to align with our body's natural clocks.

00:53:21Many people still sleep through the morning light

00:53:24or after the early sun rises.

00:53:27Does that mean that light is being wasted

00:53:29if they are not using it awake?

00:53:33So light helps us get up.

00:53:37You know, most people will wake up naturally after light.

00:53:40Now, some people, my teenagers,

00:53:43could easily sleep until noon.

00:53:45And that makes them actually more likely

00:53:48shift their schedules even later.

00:53:50So when you miss morning light,

00:53:52which is needed to reset your rhythm,

00:53:54or if you get too much light in the evenings,

00:53:56you drift later

00:53:57and have even more trouble getting up in the morning.

00:54:01And so that's why if we actually set it

00:54:03so the sun is rising earlier in the morning,

00:54:07more people will actually naturally,

00:54:09because their circadian rhythms start saying

00:54:11get up on time rather than get up so late,

00:54:14will be able to be ready for the day,

00:54:16be able to have their circadian rhythms

00:54:19help their health, help their metabolism,

00:54:22which is going to be good for heart disease,

00:54:25stroke risk, dementia risk,

00:54:27all these other sort of chronic health problems.

00:54:30I appreciate that.

00:54:31To all the panelists,

00:54:32what does this mean for New Mexico?

00:54:35For our farmers, school children, and teenagers,

00:54:37the elderly, workers, and tourism, and recreation,

00:54:41what would permanent daylight standard time

00:54:44of permanent standard time mean for these communities?

00:54:51One or the other, I apologize, not of war.

00:54:54Mr. Yates?

00:54:57Senator, thank you for the question.

00:54:58New Mexico is another real leader

00:55:00in early movements to try to lock the clock.

00:55:05Senator Cliff Pirtle,

00:55:06State Senator Cliff Pirtle worked on this.

00:55:08I worked with him closely for a long time.

00:55:11It was, the effects on everybody in New Mexico

00:55:16of the clock changing is the same,

00:55:17which is, it's very disruptive.

00:55:19It's not disruptive equally for everybody,

00:55:21but for a lot of people it is.

00:55:23A lot of, you know,

00:55:25all the things that we've cited,

00:55:26all the different health studies show that.

00:55:29The thing that I've been advocating today

00:55:32about the two-year implementation period

00:55:34would be especially helpful for New Mexico

00:55:35because you have a tricky little trade region

00:55:38where you abut West Texas,

00:55:42which is in the mountain time zone,

00:55:43and part of Mexico.

00:55:45And so there's a region

00:55:47where interstate commerce is directly affected.

00:55:50And so all of Mexico recently decided

00:55:52to lock the clock,

00:55:53except for the part that is attached

00:55:55to West Texas and New Mexico.

00:55:57And so these issues of commerce are complicated

00:55:59and do take a little while to work out.

00:56:01So that's the one thing I would say

00:56:03is that that sort of thing

00:56:04should be addressed carefully.

00:56:05Mr. Kern?

00:56:06I would say that the golf courses in New Mexico,

00:56:10which enjoy mostly afternoon and evening light,

00:56:13all the great hiking that goes on in New Mexico,

00:56:15the rock climbing,

00:56:16the hot air ballooning,

00:56:17all of that would be seriously curbed

00:56:21if daylight saving time was removed.

00:56:25And that would be, I think,

00:56:27a detriment to the New Mexico economy

00:56:29and people's time and ability

00:56:31to get outside and enjoy what you have.

00:56:34You're suggesting that people hike

00:56:36and golf in the morning?

00:56:38No, they do all that in the afternoon.

00:56:40And if standard time was made permanent,

00:56:42they would feel forced to do it in the morning,

00:56:45but they have to go to school.

00:56:46They have to go to work.

00:56:47And I don't think they would be able

00:56:48to make that shift.

00:56:50Appreciate that.

00:56:52Dr. Johnson?

00:56:54Yeah, I would say, if anything,

00:56:56you know, you have a neighboring state, Arizona,

00:56:58that does very well on standard time

00:57:00and has shown that the golf industry can thrive.

00:57:02If anything, a lot of people say,

00:57:04and one of the reasons Arizona says

00:57:06they stayed on standard time

00:57:07is because it gets too hot later.

00:57:09So a lot of people do like to do exercise later,

00:57:12and that often is actually a better time

00:57:14for our health to get our exercise in.

00:57:16So if we can get people up

00:57:18so that they can be more active in the morning

00:57:20and get this exercise

00:57:22and enjoy all the wonderful things like hiking,

00:57:25which I know when I've gone to places like New Mexico,

00:57:27I do in the morning.

00:57:29You know, I think that we can still have

00:57:31all these activities on either time,

00:57:33but I think standard time is the healthier choice.

00:57:36Dr. Harkin?

00:57:36So our work was looking at fatality data nationally

00:57:42rather than by individual states,

00:57:45in part due to sample size.

00:57:47But if the patterns hold in New Mexico,

00:57:49just like they have in our research across the country,

00:57:52then we're going to see an offset

00:57:55between the number of motor vehicle occupant deaths

00:57:58that have risen slightly during the time change periods

00:58:02and pedestrian and bicyclist deaths

00:58:04that have decreased slightly during that same time period.

00:58:09And so the net effect is one of really no change

00:58:13when we look at road safety data alone.

00:58:16And so if you're trying to make this decision

00:58:17on the basis of just road safety,

00:58:20I don't think the results of our study

00:58:22are going to point you in one direction or the other.

00:58:25As a follow-up to that, Dr. Harkin,

00:58:28Dr. Johnson pointed to a study from a professor

00:58:30at Eastern New Mexico University, Jeff Gentry,

00:58:34who showed 20% higher car crashes

00:58:37in locations where sunrises and sunsets are later.

00:58:40Now, I understand your point that darkness

00:58:42is a key measure of accidents,

00:58:44but this data shows me that sleep effects

00:58:47are powerful indicators as well.

00:58:50How do you view the risk of sleep deprivation

00:58:51on accidents versus risks from darkness?

00:58:54So our study did not look specifically

00:58:57at that particular issue.

00:58:58I know other studies have.

00:59:00Methodologies differ.

00:59:02Most of the studies that have tried to look strictly

00:59:04at that small amount of time change

00:59:06before and after in the crashes

00:59:07concur that the real issue here

00:59:10is the amount of ambient light

00:59:11and the time of day when it occurs,

00:59:13that darkness is the real key,

00:59:15and you just need to make sure

00:59:16that you're providing good safety interventions

00:59:19to address issues of darkness.

00:59:21So whether that is improving technologies

00:59:23in the vehicle, such as headlights,

00:59:25automatic emergency braking,

00:59:27or whether it's you're putting in infrastructure measures

00:59:29that add more lighting,

00:59:31add more space for pedestrians and bicyclists

00:59:34to keep them separated from motors,

00:59:35whatever you can do

00:59:36to reduce those conflicts in the darkness

00:59:40and improve awareness of other road users

00:59:43in the darkness will be beneficial,

00:59:45regardless of the time change.

00:59:47It sounds like you support my legislation

00:59:49to require technology to be installed

00:59:51in vehicles to prevent impaired crashes.

00:59:53So I'll take that as well.

00:59:54We'll share that with my colleagues.

00:59:56Mr. Chairman, I have one more question

00:59:57for Mr. Yates on standard time versus daylight savings.

01:00:00I'll just admit it into the record.

01:00:02And just to note to the panelists,

01:00:03the reason I'm asking so much about sleep

01:00:04is, as my colleagues know,

01:00:07I suffered a stroke three years ago.

01:00:09I've learned a lot about the importance of sleep.

01:00:11I definitely lived my life burning the candle at both ends.

01:00:16And now I do my due diligence

01:00:18to embrace sleep hygiene and all the rest.

01:00:21And so that's bearing a lot into this conversation

01:00:24that I'm having with my constituents

01:00:25and others, Mr. Chairman.

01:00:26So I very much appreciate this hearing though.

01:00:28Thank you all for being here.

01:00:30Senator Young.

01:00:33Well, I thank all of you for being here.

01:00:35I'm the senior senator from the state of Indiana.

01:00:38And we have quite a history

01:00:39with daylight savings time.

01:00:42For those of you who have consumed

01:00:44old Parks and Rec episodes,

01:00:46you may have seen the one that focused

01:00:48on this particular topic.

01:00:50But let me walk through some of the things

01:00:55that have transpired in our state.

01:00:57And I'll weave in there

01:01:00some of the unique perspectives

01:01:02that Hoosiers have brought to this.

01:01:05Until 2006, our state was chronologically

01:01:09divided, you might say,

01:01:11with some counties observing daylight savings time

01:01:14and others not.

01:01:16And then in 2006, after years of debate,

01:01:19furious debate,

01:01:21our state decided to become the 48th state

01:01:24to adopt daylight savings time.

01:01:26In central Indiana,

01:01:27on the shortest day of the year,

01:01:29December 21st,

01:01:30the sun currently rises at 8.02 a.m.

01:01:34and sets at 5.23 p.m.

01:01:37Under permanent daylight savings time,

01:01:39sunrise would be delayed until 9.02 a.m.,

01:01:42meaning Hoosiers would begin their day

01:01:45in darkness for much of the winter.

01:01:47What works for East Coast states,

01:01:50I'm hearing from many of my constituents,

01:01:52might not work for states like Indiana.

01:01:55We have 12 counties

01:01:56in the western part of the state

01:01:58that are in the central time zone.

01:02:01So Evansville, Indiana,

01:02:03if you're familiar with that,

01:02:04you got up near Chicago,

01:02:05what we call the region affectionately.

01:02:09And so there are 80 other counties

01:02:13that are in the eastern time zone.

01:02:16So, you know,

01:02:17this sort of suggests

01:02:18that maybe a one-size-fits-all

01:02:20national policy on time changes

01:02:22doesn't take into account

01:02:24the regional differences

01:02:26that significantly impact daily life.

01:02:30I understand we have a charge,

01:02:33Article I, Section 8,

01:02:34to facilitate interstate commerce.

01:02:36It was one of the major arguments

01:02:39of facilitating interstate commerce

01:02:41from the state level

01:02:42when we had this debate.

01:02:44So I anticipate we've heard that.

01:02:46I anticipate I'll hear more of that

01:02:49from my colleagues.

01:02:49But that has to be balanced

01:02:50against other considerations, of course.

01:02:53Leaving this decision to the states

01:02:57might allow local leaders

01:02:59who best understand their communities

01:03:01to weigh the specific needs

01:03:04of their residents.

01:03:06States, along this line of argument,

01:03:08are in a better position

01:03:09to evaluate how changes

01:03:11in daylight hours

01:03:12affect school schedules,

01:03:14commuting patterns,

01:03:15public safety,

01:03:16and economic activity.

01:03:19So I guess to the panel,

01:03:21do you believe that states

01:03:23like Indiana,

01:03:24with their unique cultures

01:03:26and geographical challenges

01:03:28and even histories

01:03:29as it relates to this issue,

01:03:32should have the flexibility

01:03:33to make their own decision

01:03:35or do you think this decision

01:03:36should be standardized

01:03:37across the country?

01:03:39We'll begin with Mr. Yates

01:03:40and I'll give everyone

01:03:41an opportunity to speak to that

01:03:43if you like.

01:03:44Yes, sir.

01:03:45Thank you, Senator Young,

01:03:47for the question.

01:03:47And I mentioned Indiana

01:03:48in my opening statement

01:03:50because it's a perfect example

01:03:51of why the Commerce Committee

01:03:52needs to approach this carefully

01:03:54because to impose onto Indiana

01:03:57a solution that is the same

01:03:59as for New York

01:04:00and for New England

01:04:01is not the best interest

01:04:04of the people of Indiana

01:04:05and is a little bit rude.

01:04:07The one thing that I might say, though,

01:04:10is that I have,

01:04:11I've never been to Indiana to testify,

01:04:13but I did go to Michigan

01:04:14to testify about their

01:04:15daylight saving time bill.

01:04:16And I went to Nebraska

01:04:18and to Kansas,

01:04:19which are states like Indiana

01:04:21on the western edge

01:04:22of their time zones

01:04:23and would make the most sense

01:04:24for them to be in standard time.

01:04:26And I advocated for that

01:04:27with the state senators

01:04:28and state representatives

01:04:30in those states.

01:04:31And all of them told me

01:04:32that all of their constituents

01:04:33don't care.

01:04:35They would rather,

01:04:36like in the middle of the winter,

01:04:37they're already going to school

01:04:39and going to work in the dark.

01:04:41And they would just like

01:04:42to have a little bit of time

01:04:43after school

01:04:45and after work

01:04:46to be in the light.

01:04:47So I said,

01:04:47okay, this is your state.

01:04:49You get to pick.

01:04:51Thank you for your response.

01:04:53Mr. Karen.

01:04:54Well, I'm no constitutional scholar

01:04:56for sure,

01:04:56but I don't see

01:04:58in the Constitution

01:04:59where it says

01:04:59that the federal government

01:05:01regulates time.

01:05:03I don't know

01:05:03if time falls under commerce,

01:05:04so it would naturally

01:05:05fall to the states

01:05:06if the federal government

01:05:07is not in power to do so.

01:05:08We have the view

01:05:08that everything

01:05:09falls under commerce.

01:05:11I appreciate that.

01:05:12I will say,

01:05:13you know,

01:05:13I feel it's less

01:05:16of a state issue

01:05:18than it feels like

01:05:19a personal issue.

01:05:20And the ability

01:05:21to do,

01:05:23for example,

01:05:24to Senator One's comments,

01:05:27I can simulate

01:05:28or practice sleep hygiene

01:05:30whether the sun

01:05:31is up or down,

01:05:32but I can't simulate

01:05:34sun hygiene.

01:05:35I can't light the world

01:05:37when we want to be out there

01:05:38when it's dark, right?

01:05:40And so I think,

01:05:41to me,

01:05:41it comes down to

01:05:42which choice,

01:05:44if you were to land on one,

01:05:45is going to be harder

01:05:46to adjust to.

01:05:47We are already

01:05:47on daylight saving time

01:05:48for eight months,

01:05:49so we'd have to adjust

01:05:50for four months.

01:05:51If you reverse it,

01:05:52then we're adjusting

01:05:53eight months

01:05:54of our calendar.

01:05:55Thank you, sir.

01:05:57Dr. Johnson,

01:05:58would you like

01:05:58to say something?

01:05:59Yeah, I want to talk

01:06:00about the western edge

01:06:01of time zones.

01:06:03States like yours

01:06:04are more aligned

01:06:06with central time zones,

01:06:08so already on standard time,

01:06:09your sun is going

01:06:10to be overhead

01:06:11closer to one.

01:06:12When we go

01:06:12to daylight savings time,

01:06:13now it's closer

01:06:14to two.

01:06:15And we see

01:06:16that this really impacts

01:06:19health risks,

01:06:21mental health risks,

01:06:22safety risks,

01:06:23how kids do in school.

01:06:25I want to highlight

01:06:26one Indiana study,

01:06:28when you guys ended

01:06:29going the parts

01:06:31of the state

01:06:31that were on standard time.

01:06:33Wait, you're citing a study?

01:06:36Are we allowed

01:06:36to do that in this?

01:06:37Is that consistent

01:06:38with the rules,

01:06:39Chairman Cruz?

01:06:39I'm kidding, of course.

01:06:41So when part of Indiana

01:06:43ended standard time

01:06:44and went to seasonal

01:06:46daylight savings time,

01:06:48they found that kids'

01:06:50high school test scores

01:06:52were actually much better

01:06:55when they were

01:06:56on standard time

01:06:57and dropped

01:06:57when they switched

01:06:59to even seasonal

01:07:00daylight savings time.

01:07:01And that's not adding

01:07:02the exponential harms

01:07:04of bringing

01:07:05those 9 a.m. sunrises

01:07:06like you said.

01:07:08So we would love

01:07:09every place

01:07:10to be more in line

01:07:11with the sun.

01:07:12And as you said,

01:07:13states have different

01:07:14needs to get closer

01:07:17to that ideal.

01:07:19Thank you, Dr.

01:07:20Dr. Harkey.

01:07:22So we didn't have

01:07:23a preference

01:07:24in our study

01:07:25for one time

01:07:27or the other

01:07:28in terms of

01:07:29how you set it.

01:07:29what our study showed

01:07:31was that the risk

01:07:33of fatalities

01:07:35for pedestrians

01:07:35and bicyclists

01:07:36in particular

01:07:37rises at night.

01:07:39And it rises

01:07:40for all motorists

01:07:41as well at night.

01:07:43So the real key

01:07:44is regardless

01:07:45of which decision

01:07:46you make

01:07:46and which time zone

01:07:47you use,

01:07:48you've got to make sure

01:07:49that you're putting

01:07:50interventions in

01:07:51that is going to help

01:07:52with those who are

01:07:53traveling in those dark hours,

01:07:55whether it is more

01:07:56in the morning

01:07:57or more in the afternoon

01:07:58and evening,

01:07:59that's the real key

01:08:01and particularly

01:08:01for pedestrians

01:08:02and bicyclists

01:08:03who are the overwhelming

01:08:05number of fatalities

01:08:07that are occurring

01:08:07in those dark hours.

01:08:10I see.

01:08:12I'm very much over time.

01:08:14I see that Mr. Caron

01:08:15has something

01:08:16he wants to say.

01:08:17So I've been given

01:08:19lead by the chairman.

01:08:21Please, go ahead.

01:08:22I just want to point out

01:08:23that Senator Scott's bill,

01:08:24the Sunshine Protection Act,

01:08:25kind of threads the needle.

01:08:28It creates a federal

01:08:29daylight saving time

01:08:31but allows every state

01:08:32to opt out

01:08:33if they chose.

01:08:33So I think that's

01:08:34maybe the best answer here.

01:08:37Good point.

01:08:38All right.

01:08:39Chairman.

01:08:41Senator Marking.

01:08:42Yep.

01:08:42Thank you, Mr. Chairman,

01:08:42very much.

01:08:44So it's 1985.

01:08:47It's my fifth term

01:08:49in the United States

01:08:49House of Representatives.

01:08:50And I become the chairman

01:08:52of the Energy Subcommittee

01:08:53on the Energy

01:08:55and Commerce Committee.

01:08:57And searching through

01:09:00the jurisdiction

01:09:01of this wonderful subcommittee

01:09:02is time.

01:09:04I guess somebody's

01:09:05going to have to be

01:09:06chairman all the time.

01:09:07And it's me.

01:09:08I'm chairman of time.

01:09:10And nothing had been

01:09:12driving me crazier

01:09:14than the birds chirping.

01:09:17You know,

01:09:17at 5 a.m.

01:09:20in the morning.

01:09:21It's sunshine now.

01:09:23It's the end of April.

01:09:25This is not good.

01:09:27So I began a negotiation

01:09:29with Bill Goodling,

01:09:31who was a Republican

01:09:32from Pennsylvania,

01:09:34to move time.

01:09:36And it was a hard,

01:09:38grudging discussion.

01:09:39But I was able to move it

01:09:41from the end of April

01:09:42to the beginning of April

01:09:43in 1986.

01:09:45And so that changed it

01:09:47because at that point

01:09:48it was six months

01:09:48daylight,

01:09:49six months standard.

01:09:51So I was able to

01:09:52claw back

01:09:54three weeks

01:09:55pretty much to

01:09:56right now.

01:09:58And otherwise

01:09:59we'd still be

01:10:00another two or three weeks

01:10:01where

01:10:01there's no

01:10:03daylight savings time.

01:10:04Then

01:10:05Congressman Goodling

01:10:08left.

01:10:09And so in 2005

01:10:10I'm still on

01:10:11the Energy Subcommittee.

01:10:13So with Fred Upton,

01:10:15who was a Republican

01:10:16from Michigan,

01:10:18we cut another deal

01:10:19and we moved it

01:10:20to the beginning of March.

01:10:22And we also said

01:10:23let's put Halloween

01:10:24in daylight savings time.

01:10:27And so we moved it

01:10:28into the beginning

01:10:29of November.

01:10:30So at that point

01:10:31I'm at eight daylight

01:10:33four standard.

01:10:35So I'm kind of proud

01:10:36of my two bills

01:10:37changing time.

01:10:39They started to call me

01:10:40the Sun King

01:10:40which I was

01:10:42kind of proud of.

01:10:44Those are big bills

01:10:45Mr. Chairman.

01:10:46That's moving time.

01:10:48And the whole world

01:10:49then starts to move

01:10:50to that

01:10:51standard.

01:10:55So

01:10:55we had to stop there.

01:10:58And then two years ago

01:10:59Senator Rubio and I

01:11:00we had a bill

01:11:02to do daylight savings time

01:11:04year round

01:11:04and

01:11:05and it passed

01:11:06by unanimous consent

01:11:08out on the floor

01:11:09of the Senate.

01:11:10It was then stalled

01:11:11in the House.

01:11:13Never had a vote over there.

01:11:15But

01:11:16I consider this

01:11:17kind of an inexorable

01:11:18march

01:11:20towards more sunshine

01:11:22that people can enjoy

01:11:23not while they're asleep.

01:11:25You know

01:11:25having the sun come in

01:11:27early in the morning.

01:11:29So

01:11:30so that's my goal.

01:11:32My goal is just to make sure

01:11:33people get more sunshine

01:11:34in

01:11:35in the evening

01:11:36when they can use it

01:11:37especially

01:11:37as I heard your opening statement

01:11:39Mr. Chairman

01:11:39as our economy has changed

01:11:41and

01:11:42not an agricultural

01:11:44predominant

01:11:47economy

01:11:47any longer

01:11:48although farmers play

01:11:49a vital role

01:11:49in our society

01:11:50but we're more

01:11:51into

01:11:53the economy

01:11:54that we all

01:11:55live in today.

01:11:56so I guess

01:11:57my first question

01:11:58Mr. Karen

01:11:58is how

01:11:59how would

01:12:00extending

01:12:00evening daylight

01:12:03support

01:12:04small businesses

01:12:05in your industry?

01:12:08It would add

01:12:09to the golf industry

01:12:10at least

01:12:12one billion dollars

01:12:13of economic activity.

01:12:14The average golf course

01:12:15would see an increase

01:12:17in approximately

01:12:18two hundred fifty thousand dollars

01:12:19in revenue.

01:12:20And I mean

01:12:20that's an economic argument

01:12:21but the golfers

01:12:22around America

01:12:23the thirty million golfers

01:12:24would get to enjoy

01:12:25all of that.

01:12:26So that's the argument.

01:12:27Right.

01:12:28But it's also true

01:12:29that

01:12:29let's just go back

01:12:30to 1986

01:12:31it's hard to start

01:12:33your Little League practices

01:12:34if it's still dark

01:12:35in the evening

01:12:35at the end of April.

01:12:37Kids are still

01:12:38you know

01:12:38not going to be allowed

01:12:40out into the dark

01:12:41or are you playing tennis

01:12:42or walking around?

01:12:43So that change

01:12:44was very important

01:12:45was it not?

01:12:46Yes.

01:12:46In 86

01:12:46and then again in 2001.

01:12:48My brother happens

01:12:49to be an athletic director

01:12:50at a high school

01:12:51and he said

01:12:51you know

01:12:52we don't like

01:12:53having to spend money

01:12:53on lights

01:12:54for every single activity

01:12:55that happens after school.

01:12:56Yeah.

01:12:56So would an additional

01:12:58hour of evening sunlight

01:13:01help businesses

01:13:02save money

01:13:02on energy costs

01:13:03from not having

01:13:04to turn the lights

01:13:04on early

01:13:05much less athletic?

01:13:06Well golf

01:13:06we don't light

01:13:07the golf courses

01:13:08so it wouldn't be

01:13:09an energy savings

01:13:09for us

01:13:10it's mostly about

01:13:11health and economic.

01:13:12Health and economic

01:13:13yeah.

01:13:14And Mr. Yates

01:13:16what does your research

01:13:18say about the benefits

01:13:19of ending the switch

01:13:20twice a year

01:13:21between daylight

01:13:22savings time

01:13:22and standard time?

01:13:24Thank you Senator

01:13:25for the question

01:13:25and I appreciate

01:13:26the nickname

01:13:27that you got

01:13:28it's better

01:13:28than the nickname

01:13:29that the comedy

01:13:30central the daily show

01:13:31called me

01:13:32the time wizard

01:13:33and so I was

01:13:34I wasn't sure

01:13:36if I should be offended

01:13:36or I'm going to keep

01:13:37sun king for myself

01:13:38okay

01:13:38yeah sun king

01:13:39is way better

01:13:39than time wizard

01:13:40I like that

01:13:41yeah

01:13:41the detrimental effects

01:13:45of switching the clocks

01:13:47are super clear

01:13:48and it seems like

01:13:51we've got pretty much

01:13:52unanimous agreement

01:13:53about that at this point

01:13:54and what's delightful

01:13:56about it

01:13:56from my perspective

01:13:57is to hear you

01:13:58tell these stories

01:13:58because you clearly

01:13:59have been a pioneer

01:14:00on this for a long time

01:14:01and what's great

01:14:03is that this has never

01:14:04been at all

01:14:05a partisan issue

01:14:05it's always been

01:14:07a completely bipartisan issue

01:14:08when you look

01:14:09at the 24 states

01:14:10that have enacted

01:14:11something to

01:14:11can I say this as well

01:14:12an opposition

01:14:13has always been bipartisan

01:14:14because I had to negotiate

01:14:16with Representative Goodling

01:14:17in

01:14:18who's a Republican

01:14:20you know

01:14:21on the other side

01:14:22but I had Republicans

01:14:23Carlos Moorhead

01:14:24from Orange County

01:14:25was on my side

01:14:25a Republican

01:14:26and I had to negotiate

01:14:28with Larry Craig

01:14:29who was Senator

01:14:30from Idaho

01:14:31he was the Senator

01:14:32before

01:14:33Jim Risch

01:14:34so I had to negotiate

01:14:35with him on this

01:14:36he was in opposition

01:14:37but I had Fred Upton

01:14:38from Michigan

01:14:39who was a supporter

01:14:40so it's always been

01:14:41bipartisan on either side

01:14:43you know

01:14:43these coalitions

01:14:44that are there

01:14:45and so that's

01:14:48the only way

01:14:48from my perspective

01:14:49that you know

01:14:50we're going to be able

01:14:50to work here

01:14:52as well

01:14:53in order to

01:14:53make some progress

01:14:54and you know

01:14:57it's

01:14:58we just have to make

01:15:01daylight savings

01:15:02time permanent

01:15:02in my opinion

01:15:03one way or the other

01:15:04or at least get more

01:15:05we need more sunshine

01:15:07you know

01:15:07and the reason

01:15:08Mr. Chairman

01:15:09it's from my perspective

01:15:11it just

01:15:12when the sun's out

01:15:13it just

01:15:14increases the likelihood

01:15:16that the corners

01:15:16of people's mouths

01:15:17are going to be

01:15:17turned upwards

01:15:18they're going to be

01:15:19happier when the sun's out

01:15:20they're going to be

01:15:20feeling good

01:15:21that's why so many people

01:15:22move to Texas

01:15:23by the way

01:15:23Florida

01:15:24it's not the politics

01:15:27it's the sun

01:15:27they're chasing

01:15:28right

01:15:28so this is

01:15:30from my perspective

01:15:31a universal feeling

01:15:33right

01:15:34that when that sun's out

01:15:35and they can go out

01:15:36and enjoy it

01:15:37in the evening

01:15:38it just makes

01:15:39all the difference

01:15:39in the world to them

01:15:41and so we have to

01:15:42find a way here

01:15:43of resolving

01:15:45these issues

01:15:46to be able to

01:15:48to be able to

01:15:49deal with it

01:15:50and I know

01:15:51there's disagreements

01:15:52on it

01:15:53including

01:15:53I know Karen Johnson

01:15:55is here from Massachusetts

01:15:56and she's on the other

01:15:57side of the issue

01:15:58which I respect

01:15:59so it's just

01:16:00a big conversation

01:16:01that I hope

01:16:02we can resolve

01:16:03because I just think

01:16:05it's for

01:16:06the benefit

01:16:08of people's happiness

01:16:12just to have

01:16:13that sunshine

01:16:13available

01:16:14they can do a lot more

01:16:15in the sunshine

01:16:15in the evening

01:16:16than they can do

01:16:17early in the morning

01:16:18and I thank you

01:16:19Mr. Chairman

01:16:19for the opportunity

01:16:20to be here

01:16:21thank you

01:16:24your majesty

01:16:24and I will say

01:16:28I did not know

01:16:29that my friend

01:16:30from Massachusetts

01:16:31had acquired

01:16:32the nickname

01:16:32the Sun King

01:16:33which the previous

01:16:35Sun King

01:16:35of course

01:16:36was King Louis XIV

01:16:38in France

01:16:39whose best known

01:16:41statement

01:16:41was

01:16:42l'état c'est moi

01:16:43I am the state

01:16:44which may explain

01:16:45the differences

01:16:46between Senator Markey

01:16:48and myself

01:16:48on the size

01:16:49of government

01:16:49well

01:16:51I think

01:16:52I think

01:16:53President Trump

01:16:54is quoting

01:16:55King Louis

01:16:56very favorably

01:16:57that's a fair point

01:17:01since he did

01:17:01in fact tweet out

01:17:02Louis

01:17:02l'état c'est moi

01:17:04I think

01:17:05I saw

01:17:06I didn't know

01:17:07he knew French

01:17:07but I think

01:17:08he in fact

01:17:09did

01:17:10in fact

01:17:11quote favorably

01:17:12not even

01:17:13as you are

01:17:14you're doing it

01:17:15with a very high

01:17:16risible coefficient

01:17:18you're doing it

01:17:19jokingly

01:17:19I think he was serious

01:17:21although

01:17:22I will say this

01:17:23I think you gave

01:17:24the president

01:17:24good advice

01:17:25two days ago

01:17:25acting

01:17:27we'll call it

01:17:27more like

01:17:28King Louis

01:17:30well I will note

01:17:31as you know

01:17:31I lived three years

01:17:32in Massachusetts

01:17:33and I remember

01:17:34my third year

01:17:35of law school

01:17:35where it snowed

01:17:37in the month of May

01:17:38which I thought

01:17:39was positively

01:17:40immoral

01:17:40and as you noted

01:17:42the sun is a very

01:17:44good recruiter

01:17:45for the great state

01:17:45of Texas

01:17:46I am fond of saying

01:17:47you can't shovel sunshine

01:17:48and that is

01:17:49a beautiful thing

01:17:51I'll give you

01:17:52some news

01:17:54that the winters

01:17:55in Boston

01:17:55are now six degrees

01:17:56warmer

01:17:57than they were

01:17:58in 1970

01:17:59because of climate

01:18:00change

01:18:00so our ponds

01:18:01don't even

01:18:01freeze over

01:18:04in the winter

01:18:04anymore

01:18:04much less snowing

01:18:05in May

01:18:06so

01:18:06maybe kids

01:18:08from Texas

01:18:09going to law school

01:18:10up in Boston

01:18:10now

01:18:11enjoy May

01:18:12a lot more

01:18:12than they used to

01:18:13all right

01:18:14so I'm going to

01:18:14ask a couple more

01:18:15questions

01:18:15then we're going to

01:18:15wrap up the hearing

01:18:17Mr. Karen

01:18:21give us your best

01:18:25argument

01:18:25why recreational

01:18:26daylight

01:18:27is so important

01:18:28to your members

01:18:29my members

01:18:33deliver joy

01:18:34for a living

01:18:34and they happen

01:18:35to run businesses

01:18:36making that happen

01:18:37so to them

01:18:38if they saw

01:18:40more people

01:18:40in the afternoons

01:18:42and the evenings

01:18:42enjoying

01:18:43the outdoors

01:18:44with each other

01:18:44it's why they get

01:18:47out of bed

01:18:47it's why they do this

01:18:48so they'll have

01:18:50better lives

01:18:50as business owners

01:18:51they'll be able

01:18:52to pay the bills

01:18:53a little bit better

01:18:54and reinvest

01:18:55in their businesses

01:18:56if they had

01:18:57a little bit of a boost

01:18:58more in the afternoons

01:18:59and evenings

01:18:59that was helpful

01:19:02although I will say

01:19:03on the delivering joy

01:19:05I couldn't help

01:19:06but think of

01:19:08I think the best

01:19:09comedy riff ever done

01:19:10which is Robin Williams

01:19:11Oh I've seen that

01:19:12golf

01:19:12which I will note

01:19:14is profane

01:19:15but screamingly funny

01:19:17and he points out

01:19:18that golf was invented

01:19:22by the Scots

01:19:23and how infuriating

01:19:25it can be at time

01:19:26and he said

01:19:27I know we'll call it

01:19:28a stroke

01:19:28because when you miss

01:19:30you want to have a stroke

01:19:31very good

01:19:34all right

01:19:35Dr. Johnson

01:19:36would shifting time zones

01:19:45slightly address

01:19:47the concerns

01:19:47for communities

01:19:48that are in

01:19:49dark zone areas

01:19:50if the clock

01:19:52were permanently set

01:19:53on daylight savings times

01:19:55does shifting

01:19:56the time zones

01:19:57make a difference

01:19:57so we would encourage

01:20:00all states

01:20:01to be within

01:20:02their sort of time zone

01:20:03that is closest

01:20:04to the sun

01:20:05being overhead at noon

01:20:06so for example

01:20:07like Indiana

01:20:08being more

01:20:10in the central time zone

01:20:11versus the eastern time zone

01:20:13would help

01:20:14get them more aligned

01:20:16with the sun

01:20:16but it should be

01:20:17standard time

01:20:18so there has been

01:20:19a push on the east coast

01:20:20to have us

01:20:21in Atlantic

01:20:21standard time

01:20:22that is a time set

01:20:24for Bermuda

01:20:24that is not

01:20:25the time set

01:20:26for any of the east coast

01:20:27so you know

01:20:29we want

01:20:30permanent standard

01:20:31eastern time

01:20:33not permanent

01:20:34standard Atlantic time

01:20:36which is the exact same

01:20:37as permanent

01:20:38daylight savings time

01:20:39Dr. Harkey

01:20:41what has your research

01:20:43found

01:20:44as it relates

01:20:45to traffic accidents

01:20:46immediately following

01:20:48a time change

01:20:49so that's

01:20:50what we were looking at

01:20:52as part of our research

01:20:53was in that

01:20:54five week period

01:20:54before

01:20:55and the five week period

01:20:56after the time change

01:20:58and when we fall back

01:21:00in the fall

01:21:01vehicle occupant deaths

01:21:02go down

01:21:03about 7%

01:21:04and when they spring forward

01:21:08vehicle occupant deaths

01:21:10go up

01:21:10about 12%

01:21:11and the exact opposite

01:21:13with pedestrian

01:21:14and fatalities

01:21:14so when we fall back

01:21:16pedestrian and fatalities

01:21:18rise

01:21:1913%

01:21:20and then when we spring forward

01:21:21they go down

01:21:2224%

01:21:23and so the net effect

01:21:25is almost zero

01:21:27between pedestrian

01:21:29and vehicle

01:21:30pedestrian bicyclists

01:21:32and vehicle deaths

01:21:33and so

01:21:33that's why

01:21:34our research really doesn't

01:21:36come out strongly

01:21:37in favor of either one

01:21:38but what's clear

01:21:41is that darkness matters

01:21:43and that's where

01:21:44we do about a quarter

01:21:45of our travel

01:21:46at night

01:21:47and yet that's when

01:21:4850%

01:21:49of the vehicle

01:21:51occupant deaths

01:21:51occur

01:21:51and when more than

01:21:53three quarters

01:21:53of the pedestrian

01:21:54deaths occur

01:21:55so regardless

01:21:56of what policy decision

01:21:57is made

01:21:58with regards to the time

01:21:59and where we set

01:22:00the clocks

01:22:01we have to make sure

01:22:02we're continuing

01:22:03to improve

01:22:04our infrastructure

01:22:05continuing to improve

01:22:06vehicle technology

01:22:07that will address

01:22:09the safety risk

01:22:10that we have

01:22:11at night

01:22:11in dark conditions

01:22:12so you just said

01:22:14darkness mattered

01:22:15and it occurred to me

01:22:17an alternative title

01:22:18for this hearing

01:22:19instead of if we could

01:22:19turn back time

01:22:20might have been

01:22:22hello darkness

01:22:22my old friend

01:22:23all right

01:22:26look this hearing

01:22:29was important

01:22:29and I wanted to hear

01:22:30all this testimony

01:22:31because I personally

01:22:32struggle with the two

01:22:33two choices here

01:22:34because

01:22:35it's a question of

01:22:37what do you care

01:22:38about more

01:22:39sunshine

01:22:39and joy

01:22:40and fun

01:22:41and money

01:22:41or health

01:22:43mental health

01:22:44physical health

01:22:45and the honest answer

01:22:47for most people

01:22:48is gosh

01:22:48I care about

01:22:49all that stuff

01:22:49so that

01:22:50that's not an easy

01:22:53trade off

01:22:53the alternative

01:22:54that has been suggested

01:22:55is let each state

01:22:57make that decision

01:22:58and I guess

01:23:00it's been pointed out

01:23:01that Senator Scott's bill

01:23:02does a version of that

01:23:04by picking daylight

01:23:05savings times

01:23:06but then letting states

01:23:07opt out

01:23:07let me ask

01:23:09as a practical matter

01:23:10does that work

01:23:13is

01:23:13functionally

01:23:15how confusing

01:23:16is that

01:23:17having everyone

01:23:18pick different times

01:23:20how does that work

01:23:22for commerce

01:23:22for life

01:23:23for knowing

01:23:24what the hell time

01:23:24it is

01:23:25let me have each

01:23:26of you answer that

01:23:28Senator Cruz

01:23:29thank you for that

01:23:30the one little part

01:23:33of Senator Markey's

01:23:34history

01:23:35about

01:23:35when they changed

01:23:37the time

01:23:37in November

01:23:38was that

01:23:39the proposal

01:23:40was to move

01:23:40daylight saving time

01:23:41to finish

01:23:42at the end

01:23:42of November

01:23:43and the airlines

01:23:44came back

01:23:45and said

01:23:45no no no

01:23:45we don't want

01:23:46a time change

01:23:47in the middle

01:23:47of our busiest

01:23:48travel season

01:23:48and so

01:23:49they were going

01:23:50to scrap that

01:23:51and then they

01:23:51got the extra

01:23:52week to put it in

01:23:52so

01:23:53time is

01:23:54is always complicated

01:23:56and the system

01:23:56that we have

01:23:57the system

01:23:58that we

01:23:59excuse me

01:23:59the system

01:24:00that we have

01:24:00is complicated

01:24:02but it's complicated

01:24:03because it is

01:24:05a human creation

01:24:06right

01:24:06the sun moving

01:24:07around the earth

01:24:08doesn't actually

01:24:08have anything

01:24:09to do with time

01:24:10time is

01:24:11is the agreement

01:24:12that we have

01:24:13about what

01:24:1410 o'clock means

01:24:15because we don't

01:24:15want to go around

01:24:16saying

01:24:16you know

01:24:17the committee hearing

01:24:18will start

01:24:18when the sun

01:24:19is two hands

01:24:20above the horizon

01:24:21we need this system

01:24:22but the system

01:24:23has this bug

01:24:24right now

01:24:24and the bug

01:24:25is daylight saving time

01:24:26it's the switching

01:24:27of the clocks

01:24:27and so

01:24:28if we have

01:24:30a little bit of time

01:24:30a couple of years

01:24:32so that the individual

01:24:33states can address

01:24:33all of these complexities

01:24:34and make those decisions

01:24:36then we will be able

01:24:37to get rid of this bug

01:24:38permanently

01:24:39it's something

01:24:39that we've been stuck

01:24:40with since world war one

01:24:41and this is our opportunity

01:24:43to finally fix it

01:24:44Mr. Kerr

01:24:45I'm not going to say

01:24:46that government solutions

01:24:48cause more confusion

01:24:49but

01:24:50you can imagine

01:24:52in this scenario

01:24:53that Florida

01:24:54is on

01:24:55daylight saving time

01:24:57Georgia right above

01:24:58it's on standard

01:24:59South Carolina

01:25:00is on daylight

01:25:01etc

01:25:01in the same spot

01:25:03because maybe

01:25:03special interests

01:25:04of all kinds

01:25:05made that happen

01:25:06so I already have

01:25:08problems

01:25:08remembering

01:25:09which state

01:25:10is in which time zone

01:25:11as it is right now

01:25:12sometimes

01:25:12the border states

01:25:13to add to that

01:25:14oh they're in central

01:25:15and they're on standard

01:25:16oh what time

01:25:17is it there exactly

01:25:18so I can see

01:25:19where this causes

01:25:20more confusion

01:25:21I wish I had

01:25:22a better answer

01:25:23for you on that one

01:25:24but could we adjust

01:25:26and figure that out

01:25:27quickly

01:25:27I don't know

01:25:28I see it as problematic

01:25:30but it may be

01:25:30the only way

01:25:31to thread the needle

01:25:32Dr. Johnson

01:25:33yeah I think

01:25:34you know

01:25:35the economy

01:25:35the transportation

01:25:37industry

01:25:37certainly needs

01:25:38consistency

01:25:39and alignment

01:25:40so we want

01:25:41to make this change

01:25:42once

01:25:42we don't want

01:25:43to pick

01:25:43something that's tried

01:25:45and been failed

01:25:45twice before

01:25:46such that we

01:25:47spend lots of money

01:25:48fixing it again

01:25:49in a few years

01:25:50you mentioned

01:25:51the economy

01:25:52which again

01:25:54you know

01:25:54is so important

01:25:55and you know

01:25:57the majority

01:25:57of our workers

01:25:58start work early

01:25:59the average work

01:26:00start time

01:26:01is 7.55

01:26:01in the morning

01:26:02so we'd be forcing

01:26:03people all winter

01:26:05to go to work

01:26:06in the dark

01:26:06really affecting

01:26:07their productivity

01:26:08and economics

01:26:10and so

01:26:12while you know

01:26:13certain businesses

01:26:14are going to have

01:26:15different you know

01:26:16benefits of the sun

01:26:18I actually do

01:26:20want to give sun

01:26:21to people

01:26:22when they use it

01:26:23to get up

01:26:24when they use it

01:26:24to be healthy

01:26:25when they use it

01:26:26to be more productive

01:26:27and efficient at work

01:26:28and to improve

01:26:29the overall economy

01:26:30not just

01:26:31niche

01:26:32you know

01:26:33businesses

01:26:34like the golf industry

01:26:35that have shown

01:26:36they can be

01:26:36very successful

01:26:37in standard time

01:26:38like in Arizona

01:26:38Dr. Harkey

01:26:40strictly speaking

01:26:42from a road safety

01:26:43perspective

01:26:43I'm not sure

01:26:44it would make

01:26:45any difference

01:26:45if states

01:26:46had the right

01:26:47to select the time

01:26:48because again

01:26:49it's about

01:26:50the amount of light

01:26:51the amount of ambient light

01:26:52during the times of travel

01:26:54and so

01:26:54I don't think

01:26:56it would have an impact

01:26:57personally

01:26:58it would probably

01:26:59confuse me

01:26:59but that's

01:27:01we had that problem

01:27:03I will give you

01:27:03a quick anecdote

01:27:04almost 40 years ago

01:27:06we were collecting

01:27:06speed data

01:27:07in New Mexico

01:27:08and Arizona

01:27:08as part of a research study

01:27:10had no idea

01:27:11at that time

01:27:12being right out of school

01:27:13hadn't really paid attention

01:27:14that Arizona

01:27:14did not bother

01:27:15to go to daylight savings times

01:27:17all of our equipment

01:27:18was an hour off

01:27:20when we went to pick up

01:27:21all the speed data

01:27:21and we had to adjust it

01:27:22after the fact

01:27:23and so

01:27:24I think you would have

01:27:25those kinds of things

01:27:26right

01:27:26that could work their way

01:27:27into the system

01:27:28unintentional mistakes

01:27:29if we were to get

01:27:31into a system

01:27:32where we had a lot

01:27:34of different

01:27:34time zones going on

01:27:35well I for one

01:27:37am thankful

01:27:38for these magic devices

01:27:39that we carry

01:27:40that when I land

01:27:41on a plane

01:27:41I look down

01:27:42to figure out

01:27:42what time it is

01:27:43because I'm on a lot

01:27:44of planes

01:27:45and it changes

01:27:46I want to thank

01:27:47each of the four of you

01:27:48this has been

01:27:48very helpful

01:27:49testimony

01:27:50and you all

01:27:51have different perspectives

01:27:52so each of you

01:27:53has added significantly

01:27:54to it

01:27:54senators will have

01:27:56until the close of business

01:27:57on Thursday

01:27:57April 17th

01:27:58to submit questions

01:27:59for the record

01:28:00the witnesses will have

01:28:01until the end of the day

01:28:02on Thursday May 1st

01:28:03to respond to those questions

01:28:05and this concludes

01:28:06today's hearing

01:28:07the committee stands adjourned

Ted Cruz Leads Senate Commerce Committee Hearing On Ending Daylight Saving Time

Category

Transcript

Recommended