Zahan Kapoor on legacy, Black Warrant, and carving his own path. Watch
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00:00Hello, good afternoon everyone.
00:02Welcome Zahaan to the India Today Conclave.
00:05Thank you, thank you very much.
00:06Wow, I feel very fancy.
00:08Can we begin with a show of hands?
00:09How many of you have seen Black Warrant?
00:13How many of you have seen Black Warrant, hands, yeah, there you go.
00:20I think there's so much that's been talked about Black Warrant, there's, you know, so
00:26many reviews praising your performance and we'll talk about Black Warrant in a bit.
00:30I just want to understand Zahaan Kapoor, what's it been like for you, this kind of reception
00:36that you've been getting?
00:37You know the word Kapoor itself, does that bring a lot of weightage with it?
00:40Does it drag you down, lift you up in the industry, which is it?
00:45It's a bit of both.
00:49I think the most incredible thing right now has been how overwhelming it is to be a part
00:53of something that seems to have connected and resonated in such a big way.
00:58And I know how rare it is, you know, we all… everyone works really hard to try and make
01:03something impactful and it doesn't always happen, more often than not it doesn't.
01:09So to be a part of something like this that everyone kind of seems to really enjoy and
01:13see some value and meaning and not just in… just kind of levity also or intrigue, it's
01:18just… it's very, very special.
01:21Getting the new Kapoor on the block, I guess, is a common source of intrigue for a lot of
01:28people.
01:29It's interesting, it's both an advantage and a disadvantage.
01:33It's a lot of…
01:34It's a lot of pressure?
01:35Two-edged sword.
01:36It is pressure, it is expectation, yet there is… there are forgivenesses, there are…
01:44there access… there is accessibility in certain ways.
01:47Personally though, I'm happy to say that my parents made sure that I wasn't carrying
01:53that weight on my shoulders and was taught how to be diligent with my own work, things
01:59that are in my hands, right?
02:00So how I show up and…
02:02But how did they do that?
02:04You're a Bombay boy.
02:05Yes.
02:06I'm sure you've seen your family, your cousins are Ranbir, Kareena, now the biggest stars
02:10of the film industry.
02:11I'm sure all of that weighs on you.
02:12I'm sure you knew that also.
02:14It…
02:15Yes, I did.
02:17And I'll tell you something, to be honest, all of them, irrespective of the fame that
02:21they carry, all of them are very hardworking individuals.
02:26They are passionate about what they do.
02:31The fame and celebrity is a by-product and so it's not the source of their concern.
02:39The concern is how to live a life in the most passionate and big way possible while serving
02:43cinema, stories, art, culture and then you're a representative of society also.
02:49So you play the showbiz game.
02:52But is it a coincidence that every Kapoor is, you know, dealing with art in some form
02:59and many in acting?
03:01It's not every.
03:02I mean, it's a huge, huge family.
03:03Okay.
03:04I mean, it's really not.
03:05But you are the Bollywood first family.
03:07Yes.
03:08But there's many more people in the family who are not actually active members.
03:11So you're talking about four who are A-list celebrities, you know.
03:16So you don't think it's a given?
03:17And did you have it easy when you decided that, look, I'm going to be an actor?
03:22It's not a given, I think.
03:24And I don't think I had it easy only because I don't think anyone really has it easy.
03:31It depends.
03:32It's subjective.
03:33I can only speak for myself.
03:34I was given a few opportunities and some access, but not everything.
03:38I was not…
03:40I wanted to find my own feet.
03:42I was encouraged in different ways.
03:43I had access to, let's say, theatre, being around and now deeply involved in Prithvi
03:50theatre and its functionings and, you know, growth.
03:56It was difficult for me to navigate these expectations.
03:59It was difficult to figure out what should I do.
04:02All I knew was that I wanted to be a part of this magical world of telling stories to
04:06serve it in the best way I can.
04:09And I like learning.
04:10I really do.
04:11I'm very nerdy like that.
04:12So I just…
04:13I'm reading.
04:14I'm learning.
04:15I'm talking to people.
04:16I'm watching rehearsals.
04:17I'm watching films.
04:18I'm…
04:19You know, an event like this, I mean, I've seen so many videos of people like when Yuval
04:22Noah Harari was here a couple of years ago or two years ago, last year, something.
04:25Anyway, these are the kinds of people that I'm fascinated with.
04:28So it's…
04:29We're trying to reflect life around us, society, questions that…
04:33It's such an immersive process.
04:35And it's not easy but it's fun.
04:38This, you know, Black Warrant and the accolades that it's receiving, it's not your first acting
04:43gig per se.
04:44You've done a lot of theatre.
04:45You did a film previously.
04:47But the kind of praise…
04:48Is this something that, you know, is unprecedented so far in your career, the kind of praise
04:52you're getting for Black Warrant?
04:54Definitely.
04:55It's a turning point in that sense.
04:58I'm very grateful to be a part of this project.
05:01It's a project…
05:02You know, what's really interesting about Black Warrant and this has…
05:04There's something to be said about it's a real symbol for collaboration.
05:10It started with the real Sunil Kumar Gupta, who was a jailer at Tihar for thirty, thirty-five
05:16years.
05:17He meets and collaborates with Sunetra Chaudhary, who is a journalist and writer.
05:24She's fascinated by his world, his life story, what he has seen.
05:28They get support from Roli Books and Priya Kapoor and people like that.
05:32They get…
05:33They publish this book.
05:34The book does well.
05:35The book does the rounds, everyone hears about it.
05:38It's a novel perspective into the machinery from… not from the prisoner side, not from
05:43the side of the law officers and the judges, but of the kind of care holders, so to speak,
05:49you know, the ones who carry out sentences.
05:55And then Confluence Media comes in and they acquire the rights and they try and, you know,
05:59see potential.
06:00Then they go to Vikramaditya Motwane sir and Andolan Films and he takes it to Sameer Nair,
06:05who is with applause and then they empower it and then he gets makers of other kinds,
06:09like other directors, writers, people who he's associated with, all across.
06:14Everyone is joining hands in service of something and then finally Netflix comes on board and
06:19then it reaches the world.
06:21That is incredible.
06:22And…
06:23And I'm playing a part and yes, it's my face, so there's a tension.
06:28But how many people does it take with the intentionality not getting diluted, at any
06:34step of the way it could have got diluted?
06:36Yeah.
06:37At your step it could have.
06:38It could have.
06:39I mean, we could have all fumbled it.
06:40So, you know, you started off talking about how everyone's connecting perhaps with the
06:43series.
06:44I think for me personally, it was intrigue.
06:45I'm sure a lot of people will agree that the reason that they watched Black Warrant
06:49was also a lot of intrigue about how things run in a prison.
06:53What's it like to be, you know, a jailer?
06:56What's it like to be a superintendent in the prison?
06:58How did you actually connect with that kind of a character?
07:02I did a lot of research.
07:03It was intriguing for me too.
07:04I hadn't heard about the book before I got the call for the audition.
07:08I was told about the audition while I was preparing for a play that I was opening called
07:13Siachan, which is… we've been doing shows.
07:15In fact, I'm in Delhi because I was performing that play at Sriram Center on the first of
07:18March and I was just here for the week.
07:22It was fascinating to learn about this, the same way it was for everyone.
07:26So, I did research, thankfully and fortunately, Sunil Gupta sir also had done a bunch of
07:33interviews.
07:34So, that was a big source.
07:36Other journalists, other conversations around prisons and enforcement of the prison system,
07:42all of that was fuel and then eventually it becomes about the script itself and the story
07:46that we are attempting, which is then on a screenplay and…
07:50It's challenging though to make it look so real, especially because, you know, you're
07:54going back in time.
07:55You're going to a prison system that no longer exists because things have changed so much.
07:59So, it is challenging in that sense.
08:01How did you make all of it come alive, not just the character but even the jail and,
08:05you know, what living conditions prisoners are in and their situations?
08:09Incredibly dedicated technicians, Mukund sir, Mukund Gupta who is the production designer,
08:14Shruti Kapoor who is the costume designer, they create the world, the costumes, the accuracy
08:20of the set, the fact that there's a little camel… gum, you know, that blue gum that
08:25everyone would have… might have remembered where you dip and used to stick things, that
08:29is there.
08:30You know, there's accuracy of these things.
08:31This is attention to detail, this is thoroughness.
08:33These are values that are championed by a lot of people to make something and an actor
08:38comes on board and breathes life into that, sure, but there's a lot of support.
08:45What was the one thing you learnt about our jailing system, our prison system, about Tihar
08:50when you were researching for this role that really stood out for you?
08:54So many things.
08:55You know, there's so many strange superstitions like the idea of jail ka khaana, the idea
08:59that jail ka dosh agar hai toh utar jaayega, jail ka khaana khaoge toh.
09:03The idea that women who are pregnant would go into prison so that they could give birth
09:08in prison thinking that they would have male sons, I mean male children.
09:12Strange superstitions like that, which still apparently linger as many superstitions do.
09:19How the jail is run predominantly by the prisoners, Sunilji, I was literally having dinner with
09:24him three days ago, was saying that through his career, he found it easier to trust prisoners
09:29than even his co-officers sometimes because of corruption, because of… yeah, just…
09:35just difficult.
09:36So, that's such a strange thing to hear that someone finds it easier to trust the
09:42prisoner, a criminal, a sent… probably sentenced but maybe not also criminal in prison.
09:48Interesting.
09:49You know, for you, going forward now, after Black Warrant, expectations are of course
09:54right up here now for you because of how much you breathed life into that character of Cyril
10:00Kumar Gupta.
10:01But, you know, what next?
10:02Are you going to now follow this path which is OTT, hard-hitting series, are you putting
10:07yourself in a box or, you know, unlimited?
10:10I would like not to.
10:12This is really hard and I'm very nervous now more than I was before because the expectation
10:18and the bar has been set, so to speak.
10:21But I'm very excited about the entire spectrum.
10:25I think there's space for everything.
10:27I really am excited by being a part of stories of all kinds.
10:33And like I said is, I'm…
10:34I love doing theatre also, it's where I've…
10:37I've created my foundation in theatre as a performer and as a facilitator and I want
10:42to be able to serve stories in different shapes.
10:46So it's not just about being hard-hitting or meaningful, it's also just about… it's
10:51about being honest and curious.
10:53So I can be curious about…
10:54We go to a shadi… shadi mein jab hum jaate hain, baraat mein naachte hain, toh maza aata
10:58hai na?
10:59It's… it's… you just relax, you have fun, you meet people, you embrace them, that's
11:03an incredible high of emotion and of connection, of relationships.
11:07We can portray that, that doesn't have to always be about some deep ethical question
11:11about life and, you know, social justice and all of those things.
11:16It can also be a rep… that is also part of life and we can learn from it all the time
11:21and we can portray it and give someone a chance to connect to it.
11:24When you say you haven't grown up in the spotlight, you know, completely while getting into theatre
11:30and all of that, was that intentional?
11:32Is that something you learnt perhaps from your family, from your grandfather?
11:35I think definitely my grandfather is a big reason because he separated himself in terms
11:41of how he lived.
11:44Then by the time I was born, he was already retired.
11:47So…
11:48But did you know that, you know, Shashi Kapoor is…
11:49It took me a while, I'll be honest, it didn't…
11:51When was the moment you realized?
11:53I think it was when I was maybe around the age of eight or nine when… when I started…
12:00I think there was one vivid memory I have which… which I've said in another interview
12:06in fact but I remember one day I came home from school and I saw Amitabh Bachchan sir
12:10at home.
12:11He had come suddenly to meet my grandfather.
12:12I was like, ooh!
12:13And I recognized him more but I didn't understand.
12:16For me it's just dadaji na, he's there, it's theek hai.
12:18Like I…
12:19Every day I meet him, I go, I say namaste, om om and he would do that thing and say,
12:23chalo namaste karo, okay chalo jao.
12:25And he would watch his TV, his cricket, his series.
12:28So it was a very demystified upbringing and outside and away from like you said the spotlight
12:39or the regular churn of the film industry, theater was my connect.
12:43I remember visiting the theater as a young child.
12:46So Prithvi was the grounding, the anchor and then more and more and more as I grew up.
12:51Zakirji, who was… has been a supporter of Prithvi and has performed a memorial concert
12:56for forty years non-stop in memory of my grandmother.
12:59He is an inspiration and a constant kind of impression on me about what it means to be
13:04an artist in service of their craft and how you can connect with people and how you can
13:11share your life with others and he's no longer with us of course.
13:16But these are the inspirations as much as the cinematic side and then my mom's side
13:21of the family also and there's a whole mess of things.
13:27Interviewer – Does that… you know your cousins also are very active in the industry,
13:31A-listers as you said.
13:33Are you a bit disconnected from that version of the film industry?
13:37Sadhguru – I'd say that I am finding my connection on my own merit which I am very
13:44proud of.
13:45I am connected to them through the family, through our family gatherings, through our
13:49family functions and we enjoy our time together.
13:53We all love food, we all love cinema, we all love stories, big loud Punjabi family.
14:00But I am very proud that I can start to create my own relationships with them and the great…
14:07the larger industry basis on the fact that I am also here to do my work, that I auditioned
14:13to get this part, that I am being recognized first.
14:16It was… it's one of the most gratifying things to hear when people say, I saw it,
14:20I loved it, I loved the role, I loved the work and then I found out that you are related
14:25to, you know, people…
14:26Interviewer – You consider it more of a challenge, doors don't open for you just
14:29because you're a Kapoor?
14:30That if you're in audition room and someone says, Zahaan Kapoor, they say immediately…
14:34Sadhguru – Yes, there is a huge consideration but again, how far is that going to take me?
14:39Interviewer – Quite far, right?
14:42And it's taken a lot of Kapoors very far.
14:44Sadhguru – Has it?
14:45Have they not worked hard?
14:46Interviewer – They have, they're extremely talented too.
14:47Sadhguru – So then?
14:48Interviewer – But there's a question about whether you get more opportunities.
14:50Sadhguru – Possibly, I'm not going to say no, but what can I do about it?
14:56I can work hard and I can try and make sure that my work ethic and my dedication, my perseverance
15:02shows.
15:03I wanted to learn and keep learning and that's how I've been raised by my parents, you know,
15:11so do not take it for granted.
15:13Interviewer – You're hugely, of course, inspired by your grandfather.
15:17Among the current generation of the Kapoor's actors, whose work really stands out for you,
15:22who inspires you greatly?
15:24Sadhguru – Honestly, there are so many.
15:26I think of the younger lot, of my contemporaries, there are so many also.
15:34Right now, Adarsh Gaurav's new film out, Superboys of Malegaon, I think he's a fantastic
15:38actor.
15:39He's dedicated, sincere, honest.
15:41Sparsh Srivastava, who was in La Pata Ladies, a young actor, incredible.
15:45Babel is doing some incredible work also.
15:48Aditya Rawal, who is a dear friend and co-conspirator in all things art with me, is a terrific actor
15:55also.
15:56There are so many and beyond, you know, Vicky Kaushal, Rajkumar Rao, Manoj Bajpayee sir,
16:05the late Irfan Saab, of course, I mean, and the stars also, I mean, Ranbir himself, Ranbir
16:12Singh, there's so much to learn from everyone.
16:16It's about what you listen for, what you look for.
16:18Interviewer – But did you seek anyone's advice?
16:20Did you seek your cousin Ranbir's advice when you went into acting?
16:25Sadhguru – I do.
16:26I ask them and then I kind of ignore it and do what I want anyway.
16:29Interviewer – I wonder if he's listening to this.
16:32Sadhguru – He'll smile.
16:34Interviewer – So, what's really the legacy that you want to carry forward now that, you
16:40know, Black Warrant has been a success?
16:41So, you have that freedom.
16:43You have the freedom to choose what you do next.
16:45You have the freedom to say that, look, I've had one success, one tick in the box.
16:50Going forward now, what really will we remember Zahaan Kapoor for?
16:53In the next conclave, if you join us, what will we be introducing you as?
16:56Sadhguru – I hope you'll have me.
16:58I hope even if it's not as great, the job done, I hope you'll still say… you'll call
17:03me and say, hey, what happened?
17:05Batao zara?
17:06I'll say, yaar pata nahi, humne koshish toh ki.
17:10But I've been very fortunate to have…
17:16I've done five things so far, to be honest.
17:18This feels like my first but I did a play called Pitaji Please in 2019.
17:23That was my first full-length job.
17:25Makrandesh Pandey sir, who's an incredible theatre maker and actor and writer, director,
17:30everything, wrote and directed it.
17:31I worked alongside Swanand Kirkire, who's an incredible also lyricist but actor, he
17:37was acting in it.
17:39After that I did Faraz, Hansal Mehta's film based on the 2016 Dhaka attack on the Holi
17:44Artisan Bakery.
17:45After that I did a short film which hasn't released yet.
17:47I did a series for Amazon Prime which hasn't released yet, which also Swanand Kirkire
17:52was part of writing and Ankur Tiwari.
17:54And then after that I did a play called Siachan which Aditya Rawal wrote, I co-produced with
17:59him and created and Makrand sir directed and then I did Black Wallet.
18:03All of these projects have been important because they were honest.
18:09The people involved were really intentional about the fact that they were here to explore
18:16and celebrate something that they found intriguing.
18:21And it was an incredible environment which had almost negligible amounts of ego.
18:27It was not serving any one individual.
18:30It was an act of service into the story and into the form itself and into connecting with
18:35someone hopefully.
18:38That is very, very special.
18:39I know how you hear horror stories of people going to work and hating it.
18:43I've never once hated going to work.
18:45Okay, so next year we'll be talking to someone who still loves his work as much as he does
18:49right now.
18:51All right.
18:52Thank you very much, Zahaan.
18:53A big round of applause please for Zahaan Kapoor of Black Wallet.