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00:00But when you look back on your life professionally, what's your biggest fail?
00:04My biggest fail was I married my schoolgirl sweetheart who I'd known since she was 10 years old
00:11and I was married to her for 10 years and I screwed that up.
00:16After 10 years of marriage, totally taking her for granted and not worrying about what's happening
00:22with her, not notifying her what I'm doing, not so much that I was a bad, I wasn't an unfaithful
00:28husband at all. Well, it's not my job, you know. Okay, but you don't see that maybe it's your
00:36responsibility as a father? No. And you wouldn't want to get involved in that? It's a woman's job.
00:41Interesting. Okay, so this is something that I am... On the other hand, I don't expect you to
00:46dig ditches. But are you going to be digging ditches at your age? Or get under the car and
00:52climb into the engine and all that. I do that. So let me ask you this, what about women who say,
00:56no, but I can do that just like a man can do it? I haven't met a woman who can do that.
01:00Interesting. And that brings to a very interesting point, which is I think you're
01:04kind of a controversial figure of sorts. Because when you speak to the media, you seem to have
01:10no problem answering any questions. So do you have any regrets about information that you shared?
01:18Maybe something that you wish you hadn't shared with the media? No. So all the comments about
01:26children and your life, you're comfortable with all of those?
01:30I'd have to think if there's anything I said that was controversial or hurtful. I can't think of
01:36anything. I mean, some things have been attributed to me that I've never said. Such as? Well, once I
01:43was told that Elon must grow up and he must develop, become more mature or something. I
01:54didn't need to say anything like that, but they just said I said it, but I never said that.
01:58So when talking about Elon and- That I don't like.
02:01No, of course not. I don't imagine anybody would like that. When you look at your life as a parent,
02:09you have seven children. Your youngest, you said is five, almost six.
02:12Six next week. Okay. Congratulations.
02:15Thanks. Do you feel like you've learned?
02:19Are you a better parent now with your youngest than maybe with some of the older children?
02:23Yes, I probably have learned more. What's better and what's not so good and stuff. I wouldn't say,
02:32no, I think I was pretty good on them. I'm more on the job with them now. When Elon was born,
02:40I mean, I worked, like literally worked. I don't want to exaggerate. I worked literally 12 hours
02:47a day. So I mean, some people talk, oh, I worked 18 hours a day. That's nonsense. But I literally
02:52did work 12 hours a day. And then I would work on weekends as well. And as a young consulting
02:58engineer, I just had to do that. It was either that or we're not going to make it. And I had a
03:05partner and he said he can't stand it and he has to leave. So I let him go. I mean, let him go to
03:11another place because he couldn't take it. So in that respect, you rely on your wife.
03:18And so when you look back your first few years as a parent compared to today,
03:25I assume it's because you have more time to be attentive.
03:29Well, yes and no. I don't have that much time now either. I mean, we have things going on at home
03:35and I'm away. I was away last week. I was away the week before. I'm now away. I'm told I'm going
03:40to be away again next week. So a lot of the time now I'm a bit away. So it's not great. I try to
03:46make up for it these days by bringing something back, presents, stuff like that, which I didn't
03:53do so much in those days. It's easier now to find things that the kids like.
03:59So this is your third marriage, correct?
04:03Yes. Well, I'm not married, but we are sort of married.
04:05So you're together. And how many children are in the house with you?
04:09Three.
04:10And what are their ages?
04:12Two, nearly six and nearly eight.
04:17And do you find that as a parent who's getting a second chance or a third chance to do it over
04:23again, do you find that you want to be more involved with what it is that they're doing?
04:29Like, has your attitude changed?
04:30Yes, but I mean, no, no, no, my attitude never changed from the beginning. I did want to.
04:36It's whether you can be, you know, it's a question of, are you available?
04:41And even now, there are some things, you know, like their mother now will tell me
04:48she took them to, you know, the older boy, the older boy to athletics today, and he ran very well.
04:54And then she took him to some other place. And I'm somewhat grateful that she's doing it,
05:01you know, because I just haven't got, I haven't had the time to do that.
05:05So she's filling in. I would like to do it, but on the other hand,
05:09it would start getting ants in my pants if I'm sitting at a place watching little children run
05:14up and down when there are adults who are asking me for my time elsewhere, you know?
05:20So it's a case of providing for them, I think, is the most important thing, you know?
05:26And that's what you see your job as.
05:27Yes, yes.
05:28So throughout your career, you've been, and you still are, an engineer. You've been a politician.
05:32Yes.
05:33A businessman.
05:34If you were to go back to the beginning, and you could just pick one,
05:38is there one that maybe you'd like to sort of devote more of your career to?
05:43Yes. When I was at school, I was very good at art. Portraiture, actually. You know,
05:51I mean, I was told I was very good. Let's say it's a bad thing to say I was very good.
05:55And, you know, my art master wanted me to study art in Italy and so on.
06:01And I couldn't see how you could make a living doing that.
06:06And I realise now that I do a lot of portraiture, you know?
06:10I've got one of Elon, it's, I'm told, I don't know if it's still there,
06:14it's hanging in the Metropolitan in New York of Elon, my son Elon.
06:20And I realise now, in hindsight, that I could have made maybe a bit,
06:26a much more of an impact as an artist than I did.
06:31Why? Why do you think you could have been?
06:32Well, I was quite good at it. And I sort of was able to bring out
06:36things in people in portraiture.
06:38But you're older now, and, you know, so many artists...
06:41I do do, I do a portrait about once every two months. It's quite difficult to do a portrait.
06:46I would imagine. And so how long would it take you to work on one?
06:49Well, if you take the actual time you work on it, it's probably,
06:52you know, maybe 50 hours. But, or 48 hours, let's say. But you spread that,
06:59you can't just draw it out of you. You know, you can't say,
07:01like you go to work and say, I'm punching cards. You don't go to,
07:05you don't draw and do paintwork like you're punching cards, you know.
07:09It has to, you have to feel it. It's like music or something, you know.
07:13And so are you doing people or are you doing landscapes?
07:16People. No landscapes, only people.
07:19And is it based off of what you see or is it based off of photographs?
07:23Well, no, it's based on what I see. And then, of course, these days we,
07:28in the years gone by, they used to have a thing that the artist used called
07:33something or other. I forget the name of it. It gave you an image to start with.
07:38They had that in the 18th century when portraits became very big, you know,
07:42and into the 19th century. And so, yes, today we, you do use a photograph.
07:47But remember, a photograph doesn't always capture the person.
07:51In fact, the photograph can be quite misleading.
07:54So when you use a photograph, you have to be sure it's the right photograph.
07:59And if you don't know the person, I mean, if you know the person,
08:02then of course it's not so bad, you know. But it can take you,
08:06you can't just work every day. You feel like, I can work on it now.
08:10And then you go and do two hours. After two hours, you're quite exhausted, you know.
08:14So I know that some of the best photographers, when they are shooting subjects,
08:22the best ones, they capture that je ne sais quoi, that spirit of the person.
08:26That's why they make a success.
08:28Absolutely. And I can remember one, several actually, the Rolling Stones in particular.
08:34And at the time, it was four original members. And they had,
08:39the photographer captured the spirit of each one of those all in one photograph.
08:43Extremely difficult.
08:44100% agree with that. It is very challenging.
08:47Extremely difficult.
08:48And it's something that you enjoy doing, I assume.
08:50Well, you can either do it or you can't. I mean, there's no way you can teach it.
08:54You're born with that talent, more or less, you know.
08:56So that's something, you know, the path not taken.
08:58But when we look back on your career as a politician, I want to ask,
09:02one of the things that Elon is criticized for is because he's,
09:06he has no issue voicing his opinion about, for instance,
09:11we're a couple of days away from the German elections.
09:13And he has no problem talking about what he thinks.
09:17As a former politician yourself, how would you feel about a foreign national
09:22voicing an opinion, a foreign national who is incredibly influential,
09:27voicing his opinion about South African elections?
09:30Well, you know, we're all part of the human family.
09:32So it doesn't really worry me that much.
09:36We see, and of course, with the amount of information and communication today,
09:42you are getting a lot more idea of what's going on.
09:45Years ago, it would have been quite difficult to comment on some other country's circumstances,
09:51because you simply had no idea what was going on there.
09:53But today, with the amount of, you know, information available,
09:58you can almost feel yourself part of that country's, you know, circumstances.
10:04So in that case, we as a family, speaking for myself, I know they're the same as me.
10:08If I feel myself empowered to say something about it,
10:12because I've managed to glean the situation, I would say something, you know, and he's the same.
10:21So it's not as though we feel totally muted about circumstances.
10:27I would struggle to make a comment on, say, what goes on in Paraguay,
10:31because I have no idea what goes on in Paraguay.
10:35But if you spoke to me about Europe, where we get so much information on what's going on,
10:41and UK and so on, it's quite easy to say what you think, you know.
10:48And this is something that you would have instilled in all of your children to speak up,
10:52voice their opinion?
10:53Oh, yes, yes, yes, absolutely.
10:55And so when they see something...
10:56Even in a seven-year-old.
10:58Give me an example.
10:59Well, you know, I said, I'm dealing with people from China right now,
11:04who actually are a very big company in China, very, very big.
11:09And they asked me if they would like to...
11:14Because my son, he's only 70, he's a gamer.
11:17He's got a gaming computer and everything.
11:19And it's quite weird how talented he is.
11:22And they found out about it.
11:24And they said they want to bring him to China, PUBG, or something like that,
11:30which is the biggest manufacturer of games in the world.
11:33And, you know, for example, I'm just trying to think how I can illustrate it.
11:38I said to him, or his mother said to him, really,
11:41Dad wants to take you to China.
11:43He said, oh, I've always wanted to go to China.
11:45Now, I didn't know he was aware of China.
11:49And then I said to him, PUBG wants you to come.
11:56I've never heard of the term PUBG and EDG.
12:00I have never heard of them.
12:01He said, oh, PUBG, are you kidding me?
12:03That's my favorite.
12:05So at seven, he knows more about China than I do.
12:10So but you're comfortable sort of allowing the children to sort of speak up
12:13and say what it is that they want to say.
12:15Yeah.
12:15So when the Chinese people said they are prepared to come to South Africa
12:21as a team and fly all the way from China and meet him last week, I said, sure.
12:27So they came over.
12:28They were going to move into a hotel.
12:29I said, don't.
12:30We have a big house.
12:31You can all stay with us.
12:33So the Chinese were all staying with us.
12:35And so I introduced them to him immediately.
12:39And they just got on like a house on fire.
12:43And this is, do you think that as a father, you know, one father to another,
12:49I look at my children and I think about the good and the bad and the ugly,
12:54the role that I've played in my children's lives.
12:56And I think I have a good relationship with them.
12:58But I'm also aware that I probably have a few regrets.
13:02Things where I could have done something better.
13:05Sure.
13:05Been more patient or been more understanding.
13:07Yeah.
13:07Do you look back and think, I could have handled that differently?
13:12I could have been better.
13:13Give me an instance of where you.
13:14Well, you know, when you first start out as a parent, as I did, you know, you learn,
13:20you go with what you learned as a child yourself to your own parents.
13:26I think of Elon once, you know, he was, my boys grew up with me.
13:29After May and I, their mother split up when Elon was eight,
13:33the boys continued to stay with me.
13:36She didn't raise the boys.
13:37I raised the boys.
13:38She tells people she did, but she didn't.
13:40Anyway.
13:41So the thing is, on one occasion, Elon and I was invited to a dinner in an evening
13:47with sort of well-famous people, not famous, powerful people in South Africa,
13:52head of the Steel Corporation and so forth.
13:55And so I took Elon there and I said to him, like beforehand,
13:58you must make sure you don't say no to anything that's offered to you,
14:01you know, because that's how I was taught.
14:03You know, don't, you have to behave yourself, you know.
14:05So he accepted all the food that was given to him and he tried to eat it.
14:09In the process of eating it, we were sitting around a round table of about 10 people.
14:13He puked the entire amount out onto the table, onto everybody's.
14:18So in some respects, you look at it, it's a bit comical that everybody was very,
14:22very nice to him.
14:23They had to relay the table and do everything over.
14:27It was in a private home.
14:29And you start to realize, well, you know, I've learned now with the kids I've got now,
14:33if they say they don't feel like something, don't force them.
14:36If they don't want to sit at the table, they'd rather sit on the carpet.
14:39Let them.
14:40Let them make their own decisions.
14:42Don't make them follow your idea of what looks nice.
14:47They have their own idea as well.
14:49So if you do that, they learn very quickly and they assume responsibility,
14:54that they've been given responsibility.
14:56I mean, there's no doubt about what I'm saying.
14:59So you empower them.
15:00Yes.
15:01So when I was a little kid, if I was in class at a school, and I really did well at school,
15:07I was quite honestly the top of the class my whole school career.
15:11But even if I spoke in class out of turn, I was called to the front and caned.
15:18I don't think that's right.
15:19So we were taught to behave like robots.
15:22And that's not the way to teach people.
15:25So with that in mind, if you were to look back on your professional life,
15:30are there moments that you regret or things that you wish you had done differently?
15:36Not really very much.
15:38When you start out in business, you know, there are times when people let you down.
15:42And when they let you down, unfortunately, you can either try and work it out,
15:50that it helped.
15:51You don't let them sort of take the, you know, at times I let people take the walk the plank.
16:01And I wish I hadn't, you know, because when you do that, you find out you have a family that's
16:08going to hate you for the next 30 years.
16:10Yeah.
16:10So you don't want to do that.
16:12I think that there are moments where you, especially as a manager or as a leader,
16:18you kind of have to take one for the team.
16:20You know, even if it was not your fault per se.
16:23Yes, yes, yes.
16:24I do think that, you know, and this is one of the things that I've learned as a part of,
16:28I play a lot of ice hockey.
16:29So being part of that team environment, you know, everybody has a role to play and some,
16:34you know, you can't be out pointing fingers.
16:35On the other hand, if you're a leader, you're supposed to look out for the potential calamities
16:40and you're supposed to do whatever you can when they appear on the horizon
16:44to make sure they don't happen.
16:46Yeah.
16:46But in fairness, we can't all predict what's going to happen.
16:50No, you can't.
16:50So if you were to look back on your life,
16:54to give yourself one piece of advice when you were, say, in your 30s,
16:59professionally, what would it be?
17:03That's a good one.
17:05You know, I would probably not take some of the quality workers I had so much for granted,
17:15you know, which I did tend to do.
17:17And, you know, probably something along those lines.
17:22It's funny you say that because I think for myself,
17:25I look back on different points in my career, and I'm 58 now,
17:30and I think that I missed opportunities to develop better personal relationships
17:36where I was too focused on the work.
17:37Yes, I would agree with that.
17:39Yeah.
17:40Now, another question, and this one, I ask this one because it's something
17:46that we're all fascinated by.
17:48You're very successful, but when you look back on your life professionally,
17:53what's your biggest fail?
17:56Because I think we learn so much when we drop the ball.
18:00Yeah, my biggest fail was I married my schoolgirl sweetheart,
18:06who I'd known since she was 10 years old.
18:09And I was married to her for 10 years, and I screwed that up.
18:14By, after 10 years of marriage, totally taking her for granted
18:19and not worrying about what's happening with her,
18:23not notifying her what I'm doing.
18:26Not so much that I was a bad, I wasn't an unfaithful husband at all,
18:31but I was taking her totally for granted.
18:33You know, she was number two and number three, number four.
18:36She just moved on.
18:38She wasn't, and as a result, she came to me and said,
18:41she's not happy anymore.
18:42She wants to be divorced.
18:43And I realized that at the time, and I said, okay, fine.
18:47I didn't argue.
18:48And I just gave her whatever she wanted.
18:50And I happened to be able to do so.
18:52So I meant to get the divorce completely settled inside about a week
18:57and a week to three weeks, very unusual.
19:00And that was a big mistake.
19:03On the other hand, I then went on, I then spent 10 years,
19:07more or less on my own with no permanent relationship,
19:12which was not very pleasant, but I did spend time raising my sons.
19:16And then 10 years later, I met a new girl, a new lady,
19:19took me a long time.
19:21But, and then I have two beautiful daughters with her.
19:24And of course, recently, two small ones again,
19:27which wouldn't have happened if I'd stayed with Elon's mother.
19:31But I do regret that we were divorced.
19:35I really do.
19:36So I'm curious, at what point after the marriage failed,
19:40did you think, yeah, I dropped the ball on that?
19:44Well, at first you don't really think like that.
19:47I mean, it takes time.
19:49When you first split up, you think, well, maybe as it happened,
19:52she came back to me about two and a half to three years later
19:56with a friend of hers who brought her,
19:59a very well-known person in our country, a lady.
20:02And the lady brought me, that's Elon's mother to me,
20:05to say, you two need to work things out because,
20:08you know, and the idea was that we get back together.
20:12But suddenly at the time, I regret also,
20:17I was what we call, you know, sort of argumentative or something.
20:24And I said, no, I was stupid.
20:26You know, I should have said yes.
20:29Can I ask what sort of relationship you have today?
20:32Relationships are very hard to explain.
20:33They are difficult.
20:34And each one is different.
20:36But what kind of relationships do you have now with May?
20:38Oh, really, with May?
20:40Yeah, with your first wife.
20:41No, she didn't talk to me.
20:43She still doesn't?
20:44No, about four years ago.
20:46No, no, for 40, we've been divorced for 44 years.
20:50So for the first 40 years,
20:51we had weddings together of our children,
20:54thanksgivings together, occasionally a Christmas together,
20:58and everything was fine.
20:59And, you know, we never,
21:01I've never actually come across her being with anyone.
21:03She's always been on her own.
21:05And I've always been with subsequent woman, wife or whatever.
21:08But she never ever said anything about our relationship.
21:13But four years ago, she published a book
21:16in which she said that when I was married to her,
21:19I punched her and beat her up and made her cover bruises,
21:24which is totally false.
21:26I don't know where she comes with this.
21:28It's absolutely ridiculous.
21:30And it started four years ago.
21:32And then I wrote her a letter and said,
21:33why are you saying these things?
21:35She never replied.
21:36But our daughter, Tosca, did reply.
21:40And our daughter said,
21:42dad, it's not mom.
21:43It's the media that's saying this.
21:46So I said, well, you know, okay,
21:47I didn't want to argue with my daughter.
21:49But in order to cover myself because of this,
21:53I had a partner during the time May and I were married,
21:57towards the end of our marriage,
21:58the last six years of our marriage,
22:00I had a partner in property development,
22:03which is what I became a property developer.
22:06And he and I worked together.
22:09He was purely on property development,
22:12but we were together every single day
22:13because we worked from the same offices.
22:16May would come into my office every day.
22:19She was on a very good terms with all the girls.
22:21I had lots of girls working there.
22:22And so between my partner Irving and her,
22:26we were probably,
22:27with Irving, I'd probably go out to lunch.
22:30Four times, five times a week.
22:31It was a big thing.
22:32You know, you go out to lunch.
22:34It's like the break in the day
22:36that you can't live without.
22:37And she would probably join
22:39at least three times a week,
22:41probably even more.
22:42But generally, three times a week,
22:43May would come with.
22:44So I asked Irving a while back,
22:47can you please write a letter to my children
22:49what you think about what May's saying?
22:52So he wrote a letter to them,
22:53introduced himself to Elon Kimmel and Tosca saying,
22:56you know, I spent all my time
22:59for six years with your father and your mother,
23:02professionally and socially.
23:04And I'd just like to point out to you
23:06that in all the time that I was with him,
23:08and we often went out as two son,
23:10a four son, my big one,
23:11his wife and May and I, you know,
23:14I never saw anything abusive or ugly ever
23:17between your father and your mother.
23:19And in fact, he said quite the opposite.
23:23May wanted to be with me in everything I did.
23:27Which I think was a very important way to put it,
23:31which is, if you said May was very fond of your father,
23:36that's not so strong as May wanted to be with your father
23:40in everything he did, which is really true.
23:42So if I wanted to go on a trip,
23:45she would want to go with,
23:46which I think is good.
23:47And whereas she didn't like the idea
23:50of me doing things on my own, you know?
23:52So you're talking about the role the media played
23:54in that marriage, or at least now, 40 years later.
23:58The media talks about the relationship
23:59that you and Elon have.
24:01How would you characterize the relationship
24:02that you have with him?
24:03We have a good relationship.
24:05Elon invited, insisted on me and my second wife
24:09and her children and our two daughters
24:12moving to America, to the United States in 2002.
24:17He insisted that we leave South Africa
24:18because of the danger, you know,
24:20of living in South Africa.
24:22And so on.
24:24And so after much discussion, we agreed.
24:28And we went to live in California, in Malibu.
24:31And Elon and Kimball provided everything for us,
24:36cars, home, everything.
24:38And unfortunately, my wife, who's South African Dutch,
24:42didn't find America as pleasant
24:45as what other people might find it.
24:48It's a workaholic society, you know?
24:50And I can tell from your accent
24:52that you're from Canada.
24:54Am I right?
24:55You are correct.
24:57So it tells you how well I know the area.
24:59And so Canada is much better
25:02than in the United States, actually.
25:04And in the United States, the loneliness
25:06that you bear in life is quite difficult
25:09to describe to other people
25:11because everything revolves around what you do
25:16and very little about anything else.
25:18And so my wife, who was very used to the daily contact
25:24of friends and family, couldn't take it.
25:26And she said, if I don't...
25:28And I was very occupied with SpaceX in the beginning,
25:31setting up the factory, not for payment.
25:33I just helped.
25:34But I would go into work every day.
25:36And as you know, in America,
25:37you go in at six to avoid the traffic in the morning.
25:40You come back at 10 o'clock at night.
25:41And if you don't come in on Saturday,
25:43don't bother to come in on Sunday
25:45because you're fired.
25:46You know, that's the phrase.
25:48Anyway, so yeah, so she said,
25:50if we don't go back, she's gonna kill herself.
25:53So we sort of said, no, she won't.
25:55But she did.
25:55She tried to kill herself.
25:56Yeah, so it cost us, at the time,
26:00and 20 years ago, it cost us...
26:02Well, I mean, I shouldn't say it cost us money,
26:03but we spent $20,000 on doctors and hospitals
26:07and choosing a hospital for a month
26:09to get her to recover, you know?
26:11How's she doing now?
26:13She's good.
26:14Yeah, but so I realized then that we have to go back.
26:18So we took a vote among all the children and everything,
26:20and we decided we would just leave.
26:23And our passports were in the possession
26:25of the Musk family office,
26:27for any other reason than for security.
26:29And all the payments, electricity, car payments,
26:33home payments, staff payments,
26:35it all went through that office.
26:37So we didn't have the passports.
26:38And if we told them we needed the passports to go back,
26:42they wouldn't have given them to us, we felt.
26:44So we went to the consulate and got temporary passports,
26:47and I bought tickets, and we really skipped the country.
26:53It was quite dramatic,
26:55because there were people on my then-wife's family's side
27:01in South Africa who heard about
27:03what we were going to try and do,
27:05and who thought maybe if they tell Elon and Kimball,
27:08or especially Elon, it will ingratiate them with Elon.
27:11So they tipped him off that we were going to try and leave.
27:15So it was a race to the airport
27:17on the particular day that we left.
27:19We did manage to get away.
27:21And then after that, Elon and Kimball
27:22were very, very, very, very, very upset.
27:27You know, we spent, it's not good to talk like that,
27:29but Kimball, you know, we spent a shitload of money
27:32on this dad, and you know, and you let us down.
27:37And we want nothing to do with you ever again.
27:41And has the relationship since then improved?
27:43Well, for about two years, it was terrible.
27:46We never had any communication,
27:47from being constantly in communication
27:50to no communication.
27:52And then about two years, two or three years,
27:55two and a half years on, the boys,
27:59Elon and Kimball, I call them the boys,
28:01asked me if I would consider Rose, the younger girls,
28:06the two younger girls from my second marriage,
28:09Rose and Alexandra, who live today in Texas,
28:12if I would consider sending them back for safety reasons,
28:16so that Rose, so they could go to school there and be safe.
28:21Because they, you know, Ali, the older one was with me
28:25on one occasion when we were attacked by people
28:28and she witnessed me shoot three people to death.
28:31When was this?
28:33In South Africa, when she was six years old.
28:35And this was the home invasion?
28:37Yes.
28:39And so, but we had a lot more things going on than that.
28:42Our friends were being shot dead in their homes,
28:44at their front door.
28:46You know, it was by rampant gangs of lawless,
28:50it wasn't political, it was just rampant,
28:55you know, lack of civilization or something.
28:59So we're in Dubai.
29:01So anyway, so they asked me if I'll take the,
29:02let the girls go back.
29:04So we agreed.
29:04Okay.
29:05So Ali and Rose went back.
29:07Rose went to a private school in Vail or something.
29:11And they stayed with Kimball.
29:13And Ali went to University of Colorado.
29:15Okay.
29:15So now we're here in Dubai and you're here
29:18because of the musket token and because of the musk institutes.
29:23And to interview the Chinese people that are here
29:27to do with the Chinese.
29:28So tell me more about specifically what it is
29:30that you're trying to do in Dubai
29:32and what you want to do with musket.
29:34Well, you know, I came to Dubai,
29:37I was invited to Dubai three months ago
29:40by the Sheikh of Dubai and the various government.
29:45I mean, by the government, let's say the government.
29:47The idea was that they wanted me to meet all the Sheikhs
29:51of the various Emirates, you see.
29:54And at that time, I just knew about Dubai really.
29:56I'd never been to Abu Dhabi.
29:58And so we came over
30:00and then we met all the different Sheikhs
30:03like Fujairah and Shushua,
30:06the different names sort of escaped me a bit.
30:08And then we met each Sheikh
30:10and they were each wonderful, you know.
30:11And each one is a sort of royal family on its own.
30:14And then Abu Dhabi and so on.
30:17And then when we saw the one Sheikh,
30:19they asked me all about us.
30:21And same as what you're asking,
30:23more or less about what the boys are doing,
30:24SpaceX and so on.
30:26What's next, the guy said to me.
30:28And there were like 20 people in this palatial place.
30:33And I was somewhat caught short
30:35when this very smart Sheikh, young Sheikh said to me,
30:40what's next on the agenda?
30:42And then of course, as I'm an engineer
30:45by profession and science really,
30:47you know, it's been all my thing all the years.
30:50I said, if we are going to have a future
30:55like the one we popularly envision
31:00when we go to the movies,
31:02you know, you go and see movies about the future
31:04and vehicles can go up and down in the air
31:07and move around and go to outer space
31:09and all that sort of stuff.
31:11That's the popular vision we all have of the future.
31:14We all go in, we enjoy it.
31:16We come out and say, oh, that was wonderful.
31:18That's not going to happen
31:20unless we learn about space-time travel
31:24or fourth dimensional travel.
31:26Unless we can conquer gravity,
31:28which is in fact fourth dimensional travel.
31:32How to do that?
31:34It's a scientific thing that's been proved
31:36possible mathematically,
31:38but we don't know.
31:40Nobody's studying it.
31:41It's a time travel you're talking about.
31:42Well, no, no, not time travel.
31:44Space-time travel.
31:45Travelling in four dimensions.
31:47So for example, a photon that leaves a star,
31:51the nearest star Proxima Centauri,
31:53according to conventional science,
31:56it takes four and a half years to reach us.
31:59It has lost no energy moving across space
32:02for four and a half years.
32:03When it reaches here,
32:05it has the same energy, according to the scientists,
32:07as it had when it left Proxima Centauri.
32:11However, if it goes to a glass of water,
32:13it loses energy.
32:15So that doesn't add up.
32:16Okay, but tell me-
32:17Hang on, wait a minute.
32:18So this photon in fourth,
32:20if you move in,
32:21the photon moves at the speed of light,
32:23as we know.
32:25At that speed,
32:25you are moving in the fourth dimension.
32:27So from the photon's point of view,
32:29it did not take any time
32:31to leave Proxima Centauri and reach Earth.
32:34It took zero time.
32:37So if you travel in the fourth dimension,
32:40if you travel in four dimensions,
32:41you would perhaps move from Earth to Mars
32:45in an instant or in a short period of time,
32:49instead of months through space.
32:50So space travel is in three dimension.
32:53Space time travel is traveling in four dimensions.
32:57It's easier to understand that
32:58if you go back to traveling in two dimensions
33:01versus traveling in three dimensions.
33:04Then you can understand it much easier.
33:06Okay, but to bring us back on track,
33:10how is that related to what you're trying to do here?
33:13Well, they ask me what's next.
33:14So we need to start a place of study
33:18where we bring all the sort of
33:21unknown Michael Faraday's,
33:23Rama Jatia's.
33:24So this is the Musk Institute.
33:26Yes.
33:26No, no, I didn't call it the Musk Institute.
33:28I call it a science place
33:30where they can come and be properly paid
33:33and get all these sort of goofy guys,
33:36you know, if you know what I mean.
33:38This is the tower that you're trying to build.
33:40No, no, this is the Institute.
33:41This is the Institute.
33:42Okay, and this Institute would be one
33:44where you would do all sorts of different research.
33:46You get people who are interested in these fields.
33:49You know, like Michael Faraday,
33:51who changed the world of electrical engineering,
33:54had no formal education at all.
33:57Einstein had a second-class university pass.
34:01You know, before Einstein,
34:04people thought that the sun was made of coal.
34:06So these are the sorts of conversations
34:08that you want to have at the Musk Institute here.
34:09So those are the kind of people we want in an institute.
34:12Einstein took a job as a patent clerk
34:14because he couldn't get a paying job.
34:17They lived on the bones of their backside.
34:19But we would start an institute
34:21where these kind of people would get a decent income.
34:26My sons and I are purely merit-orientated people.
34:31And in as much as a consulting engineer,
34:34I was able to earn as much money
34:35as I was prepared to work for.
34:36And the people who worked for me
34:38were paid as much as they could earn.
34:40We would have the same thing here.
34:42The Musk Institute or Institute would pay people properly
34:47and if they come up with new ideas, spin-offs,
34:50and in fact, the main ideas,
34:52they get the benefit financially and everything else.
34:56Not like the big corporations
34:58that employ these sort of people around the world,
35:00where what you discover belongs to them.
35:04And so then they said,
35:05are you talking about, what will you call this institute?
35:08So I said, I don't know.
35:10They said, why don't you call it the Musk Institute?
35:12So it came about by itself, you see.
35:15And then they said,
35:16what sort of premises would you be looking for?
35:18So I said, well, I imagine,
35:20say a three-story office building with plenty of parking.
35:24Within days, we were driven around
35:27to three-story office buildings all over the place
35:30in Dubai and Abu Dhabi that they were read for us to use.
35:35That was in December.
35:37I couldn't believe the sudden excitement about this.
35:41And it got so much so that when I, by the time,
35:44when I returned to South Africa,
35:45people were still asking me about it from England,
35:48from France, from all over the show.
35:51Canada were asking me about it.
35:53And then Elon and Kimball contacted me and said,
35:56what's this about the Musk Institute?
35:58Is it about us?
35:59I said, no, it's something I'm doing.
36:01So as we are in the family, I just said, great.
36:04Any idea when you're hoping to actually
36:06start the institute itself here?
36:10Well, yes.
36:11They asked me where would I put up such an institute?
36:14And my head just said, I said, well,
36:16if you're going to have an institute where you want
36:18to attract people from the villages of India
36:21and places in China and Europe and Russia
36:25and all over Africa and Americas and so on,
36:30then why not Dubai?
36:31Because this is not a place that seems to be boundary bound.
36:36If it's in America, well, it becomes an American place.
36:39Goes to Russia, well, it's a Russian scene.
36:41Go to China, well, nobody's going to go there.
36:43So Dubai just seemed perfect to put up such a place.
36:47That's what I said.
36:48I think this is perfect.
36:49Somewhere here, very enlightened leadership,
36:51very modern, the best city in the world.
36:57I mean, what more could you want than to look out
37:00into this city to sort of encourage you?
37:03One trip through this city and you're feeling energized,
37:06surely.
37:07That seems like the perfect place to end this.
37:09So that's how it came about.
37:10And then people contacted me and said,
37:13we could make a meme coin.
37:14I thought memes were things you somebody
37:16saw as a picture on TV.
37:18I didn't know anything about meme coins.
37:20They said they can make a meme and they can put this meme out.
37:24And initially, the meme was me saying, Papa Musk says.
37:31And then they would say something that I would say,
37:33like, work hard, honor your parents,
37:36tell the truth, et cetera, et cetera, go to church.
37:41And then they said, that's apparently been taken.
37:45So we would like to maybe just do pictures
37:48and we'll call, like the musk, musk it.
37:51If you can't get something right, we'll musk it.
37:54Well, I've been musking it for 50 years.
37:56I know what they're talking about.
37:57And I was like 24 years old when I was thrust
38:01into the world of consulting engineering,
38:04which really you're supposed to be like 50
38:06before you get into that world.
38:08And I was 24 and I had to contend with,
38:12at that age with people of 50 and contractors
38:15and competitors.
38:17And as far as the competitors were concerned at that time,
38:21I wiped the floor with them.
38:23And it was not easy and it wasn't pleasant.
38:26And you asked me what I regret.
38:28I regret that.
38:29And I had to be strong at that age to work
38:32with contractors who were double my age.
38:34Anyway, coming back to this.
38:36So I've been musking it.
38:39So they said, we'll put this thing out.
38:41We can raise funds with this.
38:43So I knew nothing about the methodology.
38:46I'm not involved with it financially.
38:48So I don't know.
38:49And they put it out and they said,
38:52owners of these coins in due course,
38:56like you buy into people who might want to mine diamonds
39:00in a diamond mine or something,
39:01will eventually own part of the mine
39:04or something like that.
39:05And I said, well, that sounds good.
39:06Go for it.
39:07And they've only been doing it for,
39:08it's only a matter of weeks.
39:10So they maybe started doing it towards the end of December.
39:15And then I have other people who come to me
39:19with financiers from London who I've been meeting here
39:24who want to finance the institute.
39:26And so they came up with the idea,
39:28this is different to the coin,
39:30that if we build a tower in Dubai, an office tower,
39:36and we put the name Musk on it,
39:38as Musk being like Trump, important or something,
39:44then people will want to be in that tower.
39:47So we could rent that tower
39:48and we could give a couple of floors at the bottom
39:52to the Musk Institute, sort of free of charge.
39:55And the building will sort of be an engine
39:59to help us operate as an institute.
40:02And it will also be good for the investors and all that.
40:06And so people were coming,
40:07offering to raise funds up to $600 million.
40:12Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
40:14I very much appreciate it.
40:17Pleasure.