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00:00Nigeria is urging China to remove trade tariff in extension to the gesture given to 33 other
00:05African countries, stating that the move will deepen economic cooperation and boost trade
00:09in areas critical to Nigeria's development goals.
00:12Meanwhile, Nigeria and China recently signed a 7.6 billion euro green hydrogen energy deal,
00:17a gradual transition from fossil fuels to clean energy.
00:20Obie Ramadu, the Director-General of the Africa Centre for Supply Chain, joins me now for
00:24this conversation.
00:25Thank you so much for your time today, Mr. Ramadu, and interesting news we're seeing
00:29playing out from China here.
00:31We've seen the exemptions given to these other African countries, but why is Nigeria excluded,
00:36you would say?
00:38Thank you very much.
00:39I think I wouldn't say that that determines how important we are to China, but the fact
00:46is that it is he who asks that receives.
00:52So now that we have seen it extended to 33 countries, we're asking, and hopefully we
01:00shall receive, but that will be a function of a whole lot of things.
01:03Yeah, but how significant do you think this will be for the countries that are already
01:07receiving these tariff exemptions?
01:10Well, generally, once you have a duty-free access into a market, the tendency, if you
01:19are strong in export, because it is subject to that, if you are strong in export, obviously
01:25your export will be expanded with other multiplier effects, creation of jobs, probably bringing
01:32up SMEs.
01:35So definitely these are the kind of benefits, and probably more, because the point is that
01:40if you get into that kind of bilateral trade agreement and you are able to do a thorough
01:45analysis of where your strength lies, you will get more benefit.
01:52And the dangers are China, well, maybe for those 33 countries, they are not asking for
01:58equality, duty-free on both sides.
02:06That's an issue that could arise.
02:09My point is that a very good thing we're asking for, and we're likely going to get it because
02:16we've had a very good relationship with China, but the question will be, are we ready to
02:21exploit the advantages?
02:22Yeah, but critics will say that when you look at the goods under the exemptions here, it's
02:29still low-value raw materials that are still being considered here, and more or less, how
02:34then do we improve the conversation to issues like value capture and exporting more processed
02:41goods into China?
02:43We've cried about this for a very, very long time, that when you export commodities, you
02:47export jobs and other things.
02:50And here, in this arrangement that we're asking for, we're looking at agriculture, we're looking
02:56at solid minerals.
02:58Of course, we're not looking at oil, even though the oil trade will continue to grow.
03:03So I agree with you that value addition should be the name of the game.
03:08Are we ready for value addition?
03:11Are we ready for value addition?
03:12Because if you talk to those who are into manufacturing, production, no matter how small
03:18your production facility is, it's a hell because of infrastructure, which includes electricity
03:24and the rest of them.
03:25So we are not competitive.
03:28We're not competitive.
03:30That is the biggest challenge that we have.
03:31So we will need to deal with all those things, even if we get this very particular duty-free
03:38access to Chinese market, which we're asking for.
03:40I can tell you that it will take a while.
03:44An example is that AGOA has been there for about 25 years.
03:48What did we do out of it?
03:49So it's not about getting the bilateral trade agreement where you have duty-access-free,
03:55but the action behind that.
03:58You have to work on it from your side.
04:00Be prepared.
04:01Actually, you hit the nail on the head when talking about export competitiveness here.
04:04And I'm thinking, looking at the strides that we claim to have made in terms of competitiveness
04:09in Nigeria, why is it so difficult for us to compete?
04:13Yes, we know the perennial issues, electricity is still a big key challenge here.
04:18Many barriers still are in there.
04:20But I'd like you to speak to that, how to improve Nigeria's export competitiveness.
04:23It's a complex challenge.
04:26My doctorate thesis was based on the dynamics of logistics infrastructure and Nigeria's
04:32export competitiveness.
04:34So during that study, I found out quite a lot.
04:39These things you know is not rocket science, but the fact is that, I don't know, we want
04:44to take a giant leap instead of making small incremental movement towards that.
04:52Nigerian commodities in Nigeria here, their prices are higher than the international market
04:55price.
04:56The logistics component cost of doing exports is the highest, probably the highest in Africa.
05:07So the point is that we need to do something about infrastructure within.
05:14We also need to do something about infrastructure in the port.
05:18If you look at our position in logistics performance index, you know that it's not too good at
05:23110 to 136, and then failing in almost all the components of logistics, easy access and
05:33the rest of them.
05:34So it is something that we must be intentional about and deliberately start with infrastructures
05:41that will give a direct impact on the issues at hand.
05:46That's the way to go about it.
05:48It's not something that can happen overnight.
05:50If we are deliberate and then we are also measuring, then we can gradually get to where we're going.
05:57Alright, so definitely being deliberate and intentional about the wins we want to get
06:02out of the entire ecosystem will help there.
06:05But I'd like you to speak to the 7.6 billion euro clean energy deal, you know, and what
06:10that means in terms of Nigeria-China partnership.
06:13We've seen that that partnership, the trade volume is about 20 billion already, crossing
06:16that mark.
06:17What could this mean for Nigeria-China?
06:20Well I think that will bring about some direct foreign investments into Nigeria.
06:30At times I get confused actually, when we are selling fossil fuels and then we are also
06:37talking so much.
06:38But of course we have to move with the world.
06:41That is a big leap in the trade relationship between Nigeria and China.
06:47And probably more of it will happen when we negotiate this bilateral, this duty free access.
06:54But what does that mean for our main area of dependence at this moment?
07:03That is the question.
07:04Is it beneficial?
07:05Fantastic.
07:06But the fact is that, how does it affect the area where our emphasis, where our economy
07:13is practically dependent on?
07:16Those who are in the administration will have to answer that question.
07:19Finally, I'd like to bring in geopolitics into this here, because when you look at the
07:22world and how the world is evolving, you know, choosing a strategic partner or even how you
07:26partner across the nations is quite important.
07:28And I'd like you to speak to the nature of trade we're seeing between Nigeria and China
07:32on one hand, and how that differs from what we see play out with the US.
07:37I think, if you ask me, I think...
07:40Especially with the Trump phenomenon coming on.
07:43If you ask me, I think that we have a more friendly trade relationship with China, obviously,
07:50given a lot of what is going on.
07:52We are aware that recently we had the first direct shipment from China that came into Nigeria.
08:00But the question is, I hope the vessels didn't leave empty, because that's what bilateral
08:05trade is all about.
08:07So if it left empty, then there's a problem.
08:10Then looking at it from the American point of view, Trump has always been anti-Africa,
08:18so to say.
08:19And I think the first victim is likely going to be AGOA, which expires in September this year.
08:27So I think, of course, it is part of what we're asking China to do for us, is the part
08:34of it is a fear of what is likely going to happen with AGOA.
08:39But the question is, even while AGOA lasts, to what extent did we take advantage of it?
08:44That's the question.
08:45All right.
08:46Obi Aramadi, they're posing many questions here on trade.
08:49I've been speaking to the Director General of the African Center for Supply Chain.